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Java (jre) on Surface RT

So I have a question?
Is there a way to enable java on the surface rt.
Because for my remote access to work I need JRE.
Thanks

I wanna know this too. Need to be able to play Yahoo Games when I'm bored ?

Not yet but Java exists on everything pretty much... I'm sure at some point someone will recompile it for Windows RT

There's two ways I could see this happening.
The simplest would be for somebody to take the Java source code, build it for Windows but target ARM, then sign it and tell people to go through the hoops needed to run third-party desktop-mode apps on RT. This would probably actually be pretty easy, if Java has a target for "use ARM instructions" in its JIT. If not, it would have to interpret the bytecode, which is very slow (although usable).
The second way is for the JRE to be built as a Metro-style app. It would probably have to hook a bunch of native APIs that aren't allowed in Store apps, so it would remain as homebrew, but it could be packaged as an APPX and would be easy enough to install. It would be both more difficult to port and possibly more of a hassle to use, though. With care and luck, it might even be possible to get it submitted to the Store, though, which (combined with setting it up as a file handler for .JAR) would make it widely usable. I doubt MS would approve it, though.

GoodDayToDie said:
There's two ways I could see this happening.
The simplest would be for somebody to take the Java source code, build it for Windows but target ARM, then sign it and tell people to go through the hoops needed to run third-party desktop-mode apps on RT. This would probably actually be pretty easy, if Java has a target for "use ARM instructions" in its JIT. If not, it would have to interpret the bytecode, which is very slow (although usable).
The second way is for the JRE to be built as a Metro-style app. It would probably have to hook a bunch of native APIs that aren't allowed in Store apps, so it would remain as homebrew, but it could be packaged as an APPX and would be easy enough to install. It would be both more difficult to port and possibly more of a hassle to use, though. With care and luck, it might even be possible to get it submitted to the Store, though, which (combined with setting it up as a file handler for .JAR) would make it widely usable. I doubt MS would approve it, though.
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Click to collapse
I guess that the source isent available. And the open source version for Linux would be quite hard to port right?

filfat said:
I guess that the source isent available. And the open source version for Linux would be quite hard to port right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it is available.
---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 AM ----------
GoodDayToDie said:
There's two ways I could see this happening.
The simplest would be for somebody to take the Java source code, build it for Windows but target ARM, then sign it and tell people to go through the hoops needed to run third-party desktop-mode apps on RT. This would probably actually be pretty easy, if Java has a target for "use ARM instructions" in its JIT. If not, it would have to interpret the bytecode, which is very slow (although usable).
The second way is for the JRE to be built as a Metro-style app. It would probably have to hook a bunch of native APIs that aren't allowed in Store apps, so it would remain as homebrew, but it could be packaged as an APPX and would be easy enough to install. It would be both more difficult to port and possibly more of a hassle to use, though. With care and luck, it might even be possible to get it submitted to the Store, though, which (combined with setting it up as a file handler for .JAR) would make it widely usable. I doubt MS would approve it, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oracle do now offer ARMv6 hard float (which is then compatible with ARMv7) as a JIT option, it is standard software in raspbian on the raspberry pi as of a few weeks ago, in fact that is why they added that support. Now if only regular ARMv7 code worked on RT instead of THUMB_2. Don't know if java will actually build under visual studio either, funnily enough googling for any combination of "compile" "java" and "visual studio" gets you results for compiling java source code to the JRE under visual studio rather than compiling the JRE itself
---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 AM ----------
binnym said:
So I have a question?
Is there a way to enable java on the surface rt.
Because for my remote access to work I need JRE.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would need a jailbroken RT, that isn't hard (look in windows RT development and hacking, pinned thread right up top).
Then you would need the JRE which doesn't exist.
Its slow and incompatible with a fair amount of software but if you get as far as jailbreaking your RT you could *try* IKVM, its a java virtual machine running ontop of .NET and does work on RT. It can't be used as a browser plugin though so your remote access would need to be a standalone .jar rather than a web applet.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Actually, it is available..
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Click to collapse
Well, Do You Have Any Links? Want to test if I can get it to compile... yes I know, im giving away freedom

Why yes, I have a link:
http://letmebingthatforyou.com/search?q=get+jre+source+code
Rule number one of the forum, please follow it!

GoodDayToDie said:
Why yes, I have a link:
http://letmebingthatforyou.com/search?q=get+jre+source+code
Rule number one of the forum, please follow it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me bing that... lol, seen the google version before but not the bing one.

GoodDayToDie said:
Why yes, I have a link:
http://letmebingthatforyou.com/search?q=get+jre+source+code
Rule number one of the forum, please follow it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cant find it, that's why I asked. I have ofcourse already searched

SixSixSevenSeven said:
... you could *try* IKVM ....
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Click to collapse
He is right. I was suprised, how well that works
I run the Jdownloader with IKVM and only the initial loading time is long (about 2-3min). After that it runs very smooth.
Its def. worth a try, bro :good:

I wonder if IKVM would be fast enough to run Minecraft on the SRT or S2...
It would be ironic if the only major tablet platform that Mojang refuses to support ended up being the only platform with the complete game.

I wonder if people will *ever* learn to do even a cursory search before posting? People have been talking about that literally since the first release of the jailbreak. The forums are littered with it.
Speed is the least of many problems (although I suppose the OpenGL issue has sort-of been resolved, albeit with yet another hit to performance).

GoodDayToDie said:
I wonder if people will *ever* learn to do even a cursory search before posting? People have been talking about that literally since the first release of the jailbreak. The forums are littered with it.
Speed is the least of many problems (although I suppose the OpenGL issue has sort-of been resolved, albeit with yet another hit to performance).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LWJGL doesnt load in IKVM on x86 though.

Hey everyone,
There is already a version of Java for ARM-based architectures. I don't know if it will run with Windows, but
as soon as i'm gonna get the RT, i'm gonna try it

TheRinseM said:
Hey everyone,
There is already a version of Java for ARM-based architectures. I don't know if it will run with Windows, but
as soon as i'm gonna get the RT, i'm gonna try it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because there is java for ARM based architectures doesnt mean its for windows, it specifically has to be for windows actually (which it isn't).

Not to mention it's compiled for the ARM instruction set, rather than the THUMB2 instruction set that RT actually uses. The CPU can run both, but RT will make non-THUMB code crash.

GoodDayToDie said:
Not to mention it's compiled for the ARM instruction set, rather than the TUMB2 instruction set that RT actually uses. The CPU can run both, but BT will make non-THUMB code crash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Icedtea has a thumb2 JIT, but its for linux of course

Huh. That's still a bit promising. We would still need to recompile it for Win32/NT, but at least we wouldn't have to re-write the whole JIT.
Major project anyhow. Even if somebody with the requisite knowledge stepped up to start this right now, it would be a while before it bore fruit. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted, but don't hold your breath. In fact, don't expect anything at all, unless somebody says they're able to take this on.

Anyone here wants to team up and try?
i would really love Java on my Surface.
edit: http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/icedtea6/rev/748156804502

Rooting and adb phones with Surface?

Is it possible to root phones and use adb or are we waiting for the Surface pro to do that.

you're going to need surface pro (or any x86/64 based hardware) to run adb unless the tools are recompiled for arm and released in the windows store.

adiliyo said:
you're going to need surface pro (or any x86/64 based hardware) to run adb unless the tools are recompiled for arm and released in the windows store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about a virtual environment?

i don't think windows RT can run a virtual environment, but i'm not sure, as i haven't tried to do something like that

adiliyo said:
i don't think windows RT can run a virtual environment, but i'm not sure, as i haven't tried to do something like that
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Click to collapse
Would be awesome if you could
Sent from Russia with love

you could always have a pc running windows 8 pro then remote desktop to it. the metro rdp client is really cool and support multi touch etc so just like using it on your surface and as its metro you can run side by side etc.

mh some found a way??
it would be really awesome if someone can recompile adb for Win 8 RT.
If someone can tell me how this will work i'll do it. The Software for this i allready have. For developing and for publishing in the Store.

HandyBesitzer said:
mh some found a way??
it would be really awesome if someone can recompile adb for Win 8 RT.
If someone can tell me how this will work i'll do it. The Software for this i allready have. For developing and for publishing in the Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't be built in visual studio apparently. Relies on cygwin.
And having the software for developing and publishing in the store is useless. You need the source code which anyone who has the skill to actually do the port can obtain (it is all open source). It isnt something that someone can just tell you how to do, if they could tell you how to do it they would have done it themselves.

not possible on RT. you can't open .exe files (adb.exe, fastboot.exe, ..)..

unbenannt said:
not possible on RT. you can't open .exe files (adb.exe, fastboot.exe, ..)..
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Click to collapse
Errm, yes you can, you just cant open exe files compiled for x86. You can open exe files for ARM no problem.... adb.exe may be for x86, but your statement was that you cant open an exe file on RT which is entirely false.

ah ok i meant x86 of course sorry for misleading information..

[Q] Help choosing apps

Hy everyone, this is my first post. Im a recent owner of a TF300T, and I work in Game Development. I use Visual Studio 2012, Blender, GIMP, and DirectX. I wanted to know what apps could I get, what do you guys recomend. I dont know exactly whats on the market today. For example, a remote debugger would be great, to give an example.
Thanks in advance.

pachesantiago said:
Hy everyone, this is my first post. Im a recent owner of a TF300T, and I work in Game Development. I use Visual Studio 2012, Blender, GIMP, and DirectX. I wanted to know what apps could I get, what do you guys recomend. I dont know exactly whats on the market today. For example, a remote debugger would be great, to give an example.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Biggest debug used is Logcat. Most of the time set up along with eclipse IDE for Java.

kd8bny said:
Biggest debug used is Logcat. Most of the time set up along with eclipse IDE for Java.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for that, gonna check it out, but i think theres a small confussion. I don't develop for android, I develop for windows.
PS: I code in C++ 11 and DirectX 11

pachesantiago said:
Thanks for that, gonna check it out, but i think theres a small confussion. I don't develop for android, I develop for windows.
PS: I code in C++ 11 and DirectX 11
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because you said you worked as a developer, I guessed you wanted apps that could aid you with that.
So here are a few that I could think of:
Air Display: use your tablet as a second monitor. Maybe you can display log info in that screen. I haven't tested this one, but heard it works well.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.avatron.airdisplay
Team Viewer: allows you to access your computer from your tablet, so it could be useful in a situation you only have your tablet and want to get things done.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teamviewer.teamviewer.market.mobile
Space Draw: it's a 3D modeling program for Android. Never used it myself, so I am not sure how it works.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.scalisoft.spacedraw
SketchBook Pro for Tablets: tool for drawing on the go. I like this application a lot.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.adsk.sketchbookhd
If you want recommendations of apps for other applications, you can try to search the web for lists of must have apps.
Here is a good example:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/12/must-have-apps-for-your-new-android-tablet/

App requests?

I know this is a potentially dangerous post, but I'm looking for suggestions for things to port. I make no promises that I'll be willing/able to port any suggested software.
Some ground rules before you hit 'reply'
1) Don't ask for Chrome. I won't port it. Period.
2) The source code must be available and not have any _obvious_ specific ties to non-open source code. Eg: some proprietary or closed source library which it depends on.
3) Code must be in C or C++ (I can deal with porting some assembly if needed)
4) Project must be of a _reasonable_ size for 1 person. Honestly, I do this on my own and in my spare time. Some apps can be just massively overwhelming to port. That being sad, sometimes the big ones are also easy.... so use your own judgement here.
5) Tell me why you want it ported. Whats your "use case".
6) Drivers aren't out of the question, but they generally take significantly more work.
Feel free to +1 others suggestions.
Ok.. <puts on protective gear>.. fire away!
Cheers!

Thanks for all your awesome work.
While this isn't an app, I think that the kexec kernel-mode driver idea that was tossed around earlier would be waay more useful than an individual app. Every time it was brought up somebody said "Oh, that won't be much work." And then nobody did anything :-/
So, I'm hugely grateful for the time you put in here, but I think I'd be even huger-ly grateful-er if you opened the door to other OSs.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app

What would be good is:
http://ekiga.org/download-ekiga-binaries-or-source-code
But I'm pretty sure it uses some libraries not avail

I wish XNA could run on Windows RT. It'd be funny to see Terraria and Magicka on Windows RT...
Firefox would be nice, but without a Thumb-2 JITter, it's not worth it.

Would be nice to have InSSIDer. I use it a lot on my laptop, rather leave it at home.
https://github.com/metageek-llc/inSSIDer-2

Myriachan said:
I wish XNA could run on Windows RT. It'd be funny to see Terraria and Magicka on Windows RT...
Firefox would be nice, but without a Thumb-2 JITter, it's not worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say to take a look at monogame. It can actually build microsoft store apps including ARM support, so coercing it into functioning on the windows desktop may be possible. Otherwise it might end up being a rule 4 :/
There are hacks out there to run terraria on MonoGame instead of XNA, most of them pretty complete but sometimes have the odd graphical glitch. A full source port to MonoGame would be far more reliable, and actually very simple, but sadly its closed source (although not obfuscated).
One of the supposedly more reliable ones: http://www.terrariaonline.com/threads/wip-monogame-terraria-terraria-for-linux.72997/
Isn't rule one covered by rule four?

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Isn't rule one covered by rule four?
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Click to collapse
No.
People can have bad judgement.. so I'm making an explicit point about Chrome.

Personally i Was really disappointed by the lack of a transmission remote app when i discovered métro interface!
Plus there are many utorrent app...
SO, i think TR Gui source code is available, i think there is many people interested, And i think it will not be too difficult to develop, that can be a wonderfull idea (especially for me ) to make this one

Just found one. TCPMP, this player worked great during the PocketPC/Windows Mobile era. It moved from open source to a commercial different version which is closed source but I believe the link below has the source.
http://www.hpcfactor.com/downloads/tcpmp/
This would bring about a player that supports MKV playback.

lambstone said:
Just found one. TCPMP, this player worked great during the PocketPC/Windows Mobile era. It moved from open source to a commercial different version which is closed source but I believe the link below has the source.
http://www.hpcfactor.com/downloads/tcpmp/
This would bring about a player that supports MKV playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no source code downloadable from that site. All the links are non-existent. Please post the source code if you have it.
Cheers!

bfosterjr said:
There is no source code downloadable from that site. All the links are non-existent. Please post the source code if you have it.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this help http://code.google.com/p/tcpmp-revive/source/browse/#svn/trunk

mr djé said:
Personally i Was really disappointed by the lack of a transmission remote app when i discovered métro interface!
Plus there are many utorrent app...
SO, i think TR Gui source code is available, i think there is many people interested, And i think it will not be too difficult to develop, that can be a wonderfull idea (especially for me ) to make this one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2101891

mr djé said:
Personally i Was really disappointed by the lack of a transmission remote app when i discovered métro interface!
Plus there are many utorrent app...
SO, i think TR Gui source code is available, i think there is many people interested, And i think it will not be too difficult to develop, that can be a wonderfull idea (especially for me ) to make this one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the problem with the current torrent apps are you either have to pay to get the ability to download files in the background, or the app doesn't support it. I'd like to see a free torrent client that allows background downloading, even if it means speed has to be throttled a bit.
To the OP what is your favorite browser? If it is not Chrome(or Chromium), do you think it is possible to port that browser? At this point I'll even take Safari as I am starting to hate all the crashes that occur for me in IE.

bigsnack said:
I think the problem with the current torrent apps are you either have to pay to get the ability to download files in the background, or the app doesn't support it. I'd like to see a free torrent client that allows background downloading, even if it means speed has to be throttled a bit.
To the OP what is your favorite browser? If it is not Chrome(or Chromium), do you think it is possible to port that browser? At this point I'll even take Safari as I am starting to hate all the crashes that occur for me in IE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Safari is not open source so cannot be ported.
Chrome is a rule 4 - or in other words is too much effort for 1 man to do in a reasonable time frame.
Firefox is also a rule 4, plus its a ***** to get it to compile properly under microsoft tools apparently, plus its javascript engine is raw ARMv7 JIT whereas windows RT bugs with that and would require a THUMB2 JIT. Chrome also would have javascript issues, although in chrome you can have an interpreted javascript engine I think which would just be hideously slow in comparison.
Opera - Closed source.
The list goes on unfortunately. Browsers are complex creatures. Most will come under rule 4 though.

bigsnack said:
I think the problem with the current torrent apps are you either have to pay to get the ability to download files in the background, or the app doesn't support it. I'd like to see a free torrent client that allows background downloading, even if it means speed has to be throttled a bit.
To the OP what is your favorite browser? If it is not Chrome(or Chromium), do you think it is possible to port that browser? At this point I'll even take Safari as I am starting to hate all the crashes that occur for me in IE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What the hell are you doing to get all these crashes? I have yet to have IE crash on 8 or 8.1 on RT in desktop or metro.

My only suggestion would be a gui SFTP client. This is probably the one utility I am currently missing on my Surface RT (I use ssh to remote into Linux systems both for work and personal use, point #5). To clarify, I do use the psftp client in the putty suit, and that works well enough, just takes a bit more time and effort than something like winscp. I can continue to use this if an gui alternative is not feasible.
I recall someone requesting winscp at some point in the past, so I searched around this forum and I did find a couple of people that took a stab at it, but with no results, and I haven't found a clear explanation on what the hang up was. Looking at the readme winscp appears to be written in c++ at least (point #3):
To build WinSCP you need:
- Embarcadero C++ Builder XE2 Professional.
- Copy MFC source code from Borland C++ Builder 6 Professional and
build its Unicode version (see readme_mfc.txt).
- nasm from http://www.nasm.us/
- To build 64-bit version of drag&drop shell extension, you need
Windows Platform SDK:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bb980924
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am unsure if the aforementioned Windows Platform SDK is available for Windows RT, or if it is even needed since Windows RT is not 64-bit.
Is nasm the problem? It looks to be an x86/x64 assembler... which of course wouldn't work on ARM... unless I just don't get what an assembler is...
Not being much of a coder I also don't know if one can import a Borland C++ project into Visual Studio, so maybe that is also a problem too.
So I guess I'm not sure on a lot of the points on the ground rules list...

domboy said:
My only suggestion would be a gui SFTP client. This is probably the one utility I am currently missing on my Surface RT (I use ssh to remote into Linux systems both for work and personal use, point #5). To clarify, I do use the psftp client in the putty suit, and that works well enough, just takes a bit more time and effort than something like winscp. I can continue to use this if an gui alternative is not feasible.
I recall someone requesting winscp at some point in the past, so I searched around this forum and I did find a couple of people that took a stab at it, but with no results, and I haven't found a clear explanation on what the hang up was. Looking at the readme winscp appears to be written in c++ at least (point #3):
I am unsure if the aforementioned Windows Platform SDK is available for Windows RT, or if it is even needed since Windows RT is not 64-bit.
Is nasm the problem? It looks to be an x86/x64 assembler... which of course wouldn't work on ARM... unless I just don't get what an assembler is...
Not being much of a coder I also don't know if one can import a Borland C++ project into Visual Studio, so maybe that is also a problem too.
So I guess I'm not sure on a lot of the points on the ground rules list...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Borland C++ is an alternative set of 3rd part C++ tools. Would take a bit of work to get a borland project to compile it under microsoft tools.
Nasm is an x86/x64 assembler yes. Assembly language is pretty much the lowest level of programming possible before writing in raw hex or binary. It is *HIGHLY* CPU dependent. Specifically the set of commands available in assembly is the plain text form of the exact instruction set the CPU has available which for x86 is different from ARM. The fact that nasm is required means that the project will have assembly in it, therefore an RT port will not be undertaken (one of the rules in the OP).
Sorry man, its proprietary tools and parts of it are unportable anyway. Doesnt mean another SFTP client can't be ported, just this one.

Here's my wishlist. I've poked at some of them, but I don't really have time to finish any of them.
WinPCap - Iirc, the biggest issue was that it was written targeting an older version of NDIS. The usecase would be to provide network support for BOCHS.
QEmu - There's a build of QEmu that builds on MSVC called WinQEmu, but it's dynarec recompiles to x86 only. I believe the official QEmu repo doesn't support MSVC, and I don't know if it can recompile to THUMB-2.
A good IRC client - X-Chat and mIRC run poorly under the emulator, and the few .net clients I've tried are meh. X-Chat has too many GCC-specific requirements, and mIRC isn't open source, I just want a good IRC client.
An X Server - I've been unable to find an X server that builds with MSVC, or anything short of Cygwin for that matter, but I'd love to have one.

Calibre is a good eBook manager I think this is the correct source code https://code.launchpad.net/calibre
I'm not good with this source code stuff so if its to much you dont need to make a port but if you can it would be appreciated thanks
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 4

cx1 said:
What the hell are you doing to get all these crashes? I have yet to have IE crash on 8 or 8.1 on RT in desktop or metro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Browsing news sites and/or using Spotify.

ui choices compatible with windows rt (desktop)

recently i'm writing a win desktop app that requires a more modern ui (i.e. metro ui in a desktop app). my first thought is to go wpf, but that option died when it occurs that the app needs to run on surface rt tablets too (jailbroken). so a torturous route would be to write my own custom controls and put them on winform, but i suspect there can be a easier way out. would Qt be possible? any other wpf-like choices? tks!

tonystuck said:
recently i'm writing a win desktop app that requires a more modern ui (i.e. metro ui in a desktop app). my first thought is to go wpf, but that option died when it occurs that the app needs to run on surface rt tablets too (jailbroken). so a torturous route would be to write my own custom controls and put them on winform, but i suspect there can be a easier way out. would Qt be possible? any other wpf-like choices? tks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For my RT Desktop Store, I have used the MetroFramework (link below), it's a WinForms implementation of the ModernUI for Desktop apps. Easy to use and may be just the thing you are looking for.
http://thielj.github.io/MetroFramework/#Screenshots

Fasin said:
For my RT Desktop Store, I have used the MetroFramework (link below), it's a WinForms implementation of the ModernUI for Desktop apps. Easy to use and may be just the thing you are looking for.
http://thielj.github.io/MetroFramework/#Screenshots
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That actually looks pretty awesome, cheers.

Fasin said:
For my RT Desktop Store, I have used the MetroFramework (link below), it's a WinForms implementation of the ModernUI for Desktop apps. Easy to use and may be just the thing you are looking for.
http://thielj.github.io/MetroFramework/#Screenshots
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you mod anything to make it work on rt? Tks!

tonystuck said:
Did you mod anything to make it work on rt? Tks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Winforms .net code -should- run verbatim on the RT, as long as it's targeting .net 4.5.