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As most of you would know, we have learned quite a bit about Defy bootloader during the last week.
We always thought that Motorola don't have a method to unlock production defys (defys shipped to end users). Well we have sufficient information now to prove that Motorola have a method, and that it converts production defys to engineering defys (Phones used by Motorola engineers to make ROMs and other stuff)
This is actually better than a simple unlocked boot-loader because eng defys have unlimited applications (because we have direct access to MOBO/CPU) like overclocking gpu, installing other OS like Ubuntu, Debian, WP7 etc. into NAND and a lot more.
So the problem here is that the tools required for ENG switch is only available to Motorola employees. Till now we have no further information on it. The tools are TI OMAP BOARD CONFIGURATION TOOL and a 16MB .bin file. Other significance of this method is that it might also unlock other phones with OMAP(3xxx/xxxx?) board. Also this method seems to be very stable.
So the good news is that this software is available for most Motorola repair centers. That means it would be easier to get a leak. Of course the highly paid Motorola engineers with 6digit paycheck wont leak it but we should consider low level repair executives (they already leak sbfs and RSDlite).
So my suggestion is we start a bounty thread in XDA to tempt them.
If you have a solution and if you are concerned about anonymity, please PM me.
PS : There are lots of bounty threads in xda.
Hi,
Setting a Bounty would be cool, but is legal ?
Cause it is not like "I pay you a lot of money if you steal this software for me"
the|gamer said:
Hi,
Setting a Bounty would be cool, but is legal ?
Cause it is not like "I pay you a lot of money if you steal this software for me"
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hmm. It depend's on which country you are from.
I'm quite on it. Minimum/maximum fee could be set (like US$2 min and 20 bucks max, or anything like this). And someone with access to Motorola's employees (I think the user racca works on a Moto distributor, but I'm not sure of it, I think he mentioned it in some thread a few months ago) could rush and "bribe" them. If people could be a bit more clear about which kind of employees should have access to this software, I could try and convince one of them (you know, people here in Brazil aren't that much into honesty, but are a lot into money) about heading us a leak from TI's software. I'll have to take my phone to MOTOAssist soon ("menu" and "back" keys' backlights are weaker than normal), so I'd have at least an actual reason to talk to an assist technician (assuming they have access to the board configuration tool).
Yet, since I'm no hacker (yet, I'm planning on getting a Nook Color - which community here in XDA seems to provide all you need to start your own ROM - and starting messing around with it) nor coder (know only a little about C programming), I would not try and mess around with TI's software, but only upload it somewhere and give you guys a link for it.
K3n bH1mur4 said:
I'm quite on it. Minimum/maximum fee could be set (like US$2 min and 20 bucks max, or anything like this).
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We could even promote it with ads. The best way would be to set up our on website, maybe in Brazil(or with some webhost who would like to host this) where you could bribe your way out and then promote it with ads. There is a remote chance that XDA might not approve a bounty thread here (of illegal implications), but we could publish the website here and all other major forums (chinese forums as well).
royale1223 said:
We could even promote it with ads. The best way would be to set up our on website, maybe in Brazil(or with some webhost who would like to host this) where you could bribe your way out and then promote it with ads. There is a remote chance that XDA might not approve a bounty thread here (of illegal implications), but we could publish the website here and all other major forums (chinese forums as well).
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Dunno, since it's illegal, it may not be the best option to promote it. Obviously, it's still not immoral, but we all know that morality and law often do not converge, so it may be better to go rogue, talking in private with motoassist technicians and stuff like that, because, even if we're just fighting for our rights, we're still using non-legal ways, and risking to be sued for it.
I don't think promoting a website is illegal. What's illegal is hosting an illegal one.
Promoting a website who promises cash for employees of a corporation who leak internal software used by that corp. might be considered illegal in most places. Fortunately (or not, I'll explain why), we have jurisprudence to embase of: in september 1st, last year, a judge here in Brazil condemned Moto to update a customer's Dext/CLIQ to Android 2.1 (Moto did not provide this update here in Brazil, even though it did in many countries) without voiding the warranty.
I know it's just one case, in just one country, and updating an android version is way different than providing unlocked bootloaders (or the tools for users to do so). And, yes, I agree with placing a bounty at the tool. Yet, if we get caught, Moto can still argue that we had other ways to pursue our rights, and we should have used the justice system to do so, if we believed we were that right. Yet, they're a multimillion-worthy company (even bigger after being purchased by Google), and we're a bunch of broke users, at most devs making a couple thousand dollars, and would have little chance against their lawyers. Last, but not least, employers who help us may get caught and fired because of us, and I sincerely want nobody (ok, maybe a few of the highest executives) to get fired just for me to get an unlocked BL.
So, my point is: let's make this a stealth action. Get a reason for your phone to be taken to Motoassist (no intentional bricking, please! You must flash an official SBF before taking it there! - at least if your phone is still under warranty), get to talk with one of their technicians, and mention - indifferently - that some guys are giving alway big money for any Moto employee who leaks that TI OMAP software. Something like this: "hey, did you hear that crazy devs at this dev forum are paying the first moto technician to hand them some sort of software? Something OMAP-related, I don't know for sure. All I know is that the reward is some nice cash."
When the word spread, we could have an unlocked bootloader within a month.
Yet, we got a single issue to deal: how to ensure the person who gives us the SW first will actually receive the cash? I've seen a few bounties here before, but them all were settled by XDA devs (so the bounty keeper could just donate the sum to that dev), never saw something like paying "outsiders".
One of my friends (Defy+ user) has a contact with a Motorola service guy. He says that that guy knows everything about Motorola software and he's with us because he himself uses custom ROMs and controls an entire service center. He's ready to take my device under warranty though it's rooted along every single hack/MOD for Defy installed
Will try contacting him
And let's post this in the forums of all other locked Motorola devices with OMAP 3xxx chips.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
swapnil360 said:
One of my friends (Defy+ user) has a contact with a Motorola service guy. He says that that guy knows everything about Motorola software and he's with us because he himself uses custom ROMs and controls an entire service center. He's ready to take my device under warranty though it's rooted along every single hack/MOD for Defy installed
Will try contacting him
And let's post this in the forums of all other locked Motorola devices with OMAP 3xxx chips.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
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Talk with this guy. If he has access to a copy of TI's SW, and handle it to us, I'm pretty sure we could him get a nice reward. Not as high as if putting a bounty, but definitely enough to make the effort worth it.
I mean, supposing that this is actually gonna help unlock EVERY OMAP 3 (and possibly all OMAP-based phones) out there, and that this way the process is reversible (at least to me, it looks like no eFuse is being blown there, you know, assistance technicians can't just blow eFuses like that - taking the phone to the assistance under warranty shouldn't void it, and that's what a blown eFuse would do), loads of people would help. Imagine a single dollar from every OMAP 3 XDA user (take a look here for an INCOMPLETE list of OMAP 3 devices with ~30 ANDROID ONLY phones/tablets), that would make a lot of money.
this is good....and i think it will be best to not mention the location,identities,or any hint of similarities of the perosn source once you guys get contacts & manifests from that guy(source). so as not to compromise his profession.
he could be fired & worse can be sued by leaking private details.
best discuss it in private,after getting in touch w/ him...
just a tought of CAUTION...
hailmary said:
this is good....and i think it will be best to not mention the location,identities,or any hint of similarities of the perosn source once you guys get contacts & manifests from that guy(source). so as not to compromise his profession.
he could be fired & worse can be sued by leaking private details.
best discuss it in private,after getting in touch w/ him...
just a tought of CAUTION...
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Click to collapse
Yeah we would ensure him that.
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
hemil said:
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
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do u know motorola mobility service center in mbai?
we only hav private shops with motos certificate...
i dont think they can help...
all they say is we'll send it to factory(?)
Sent from my MB525 using xda premium
@hemil Please pm me.
hemil said:
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
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Hey buddy... just wait for my call today...
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Putting up an ads offering money for violation the law may be a bit problematic. No website will be excited to host it. Another issue is that in the end someone will have to actually post it, someone in particular. And that one person will be in danger of being a subject of interest of various law enforcement agencies. You know, at the end of the day they always want someone to put the responsibility on, the culprit, a scapegoat. So you make heat and you put some particular person into it even before there is any result.
I would prefer to focus more on personal face to face private communications with the service guys. It's harder to prove and if something goes wrong (the guy records it etc.) our guy can always say he was just kidding, bullshitting, bigmouthing.
Anyway, if you are thinking about this seriously, here are few remarks.
don't offer the particular sum, it's not tactical; not even here should be mentioned any particular number; instead, let the service guy ask his price
if the first contact with a potential source is established, ask first for a proof; specify what the proof is supposed to be (a screenshot? a video recording of the software in action?)
figure out a way how to actually collect the money; people are willing to donate but they will not donate to anyone, only to someone trustworthy (but Epsylon will surely want to have nothing to do with everything even remotely questionable, let alone illegal); the "collector" will be under the lights, he may get attention of people we don't want to deal with
who actually will be allowed to donate? anyone? how to avoid an agent to donate and then simply track where the money is going?
figure out a way how to actually make a safe and smooth deal (money <-> software); will it be in person or electronically? how to verify we are given what we paid for? classical problem: no one of both parties is willing to make his move first, but we can't give away the money for a software we would start verifying not until the money is gone
figure out how to avoid being robbed (fake offers from people who would want to grab the money and run away) as well as being caught (fake offers from the dummy guy - LE agent); in both cases the correct proof might be given, though, but the intentions are wrong
For the particular mechanics of the exchange in person, one of numerous possible ways may go like this:
our guy comes with an intentionally bricked Defy repairable only with the software in question together with the ordinary USB cable (or without, if special USB cable is needed; in that case the cable must be part of the deal), and with an empty flash drive recognizable at the first sight; no money on him
our guy passes the flash drive and the Defy (and the USB cable, if no special cable is needed) to the "source" and watches closely
the source copies the software onto the flash drive, runs the software from the flash drive, connects the Defy via the cable provided and actually unbricks the phone (this must be more elaborated on; what if the software uses some libraries from the windows directories etc. which are not copied onto the flash drive? he may or may not have the installer, but just copying the installer isn't enough, he would have to copy the installer on the flash drive, then run the installer from it and install it back onto the flash drive and run it from there)
our guy gets the phone (and the cable) back, the source unplugs the flash drive and keeps it for now, our guy watches the flash drive is not connected to anything from now on
now the software is copied onto the flash drive and verified it's working, thus ordinary hand-to-hand exchange may proceed; our guy didn't bring the money to avoid being robbed, they both now may go grab the money or our guy may call his buddy with the money etc. (also needs to be heavily elaborated on)
Sensitive parts must be detailed in-depth, I am just indicating the outline, one of many possible. Still it's very far from perfect.
As you can see it's not that easy and there are many potential points of failure so this action may never really come to the practical realization.
What about a little bit different or alternative ways? Are there any? It would be useful to ask Epsylon what he would actually wish for the most - had he been able to wish for anything.
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
rishi2100 said:
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
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huh !! think about moto when they actually ditch us with promises ? whats wrong if what we are screaming for last 1 year . and didnt get any updates ? huh think about tht before u speak about illegal stuffs . if moto is doing all sought of ways to keep us away from our rights . what we do undercover to get us right can no way be questioned when we have told thousands of times that we need updates .
more over the authority can question us only and only when they are themselves self guilt free .... but instead they are pretending to be saint sitting behind the curtains and doing all sought of locking stuff to deprive us of our rights
@jhonsmithx Let's not get ahead of ourselves. First of all lets concentrate on getting the source. Also I urge users to use a bit of social engineering to do that(using fb/g ). We'll put together a plan according to the situation after that. Also note that this is a pretty long shot. We might not get a source after all.
rishi2100 said:
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
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Click to collapse
I could think of atleast 10 ways to share anonymously. Though I wont be posting them here.
Returned my GS4 today (that's not the purpose of this thread, so don't bash me), and when the guy asked why I was returning it, I said it's kind of laggy and not enough of an upgrade over my GS3 to warrant keeping. A few minutes later he asked if I ever "activated" the phone, and I said, "I just stuck my SIM card in and it worked." He responded, "Well that is why your GS4 was slow--you did not activate it properly."
I proceeded to explain to him that I did not mean that data was slow, but that the phone itself was laggy, i.e., opening dialer, taking pictures, etc--stuff that has nothing to do with the SIM card or activation. He nevertheless argued with me and insisted that if I had properly activated it instead of just inserting my SIM card, then it would have functioned better. We argued for a minute or two and then I just gave up and said "fine, I would like to return it anyways, thanks."
Anyways, just thought I'd share. The guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but it was worth a laugh.
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Lol do these people get ZERO training?
Sent from my HTC One
MrGriffdude said:
It's like when I told the att rep that I might not be purchasing tha s4 because of the locked boot loader. She proceeded to explain that you could take the back of the phone off and that it was not locked.
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Ha. Funniest post so far today...
Ugh, this makes me so angry. These AT&T reps remind me of Best Buy employees that sell computers or phones. They are so used to being the "person that knows everything" that they can't deal with being proved wrong or won't see it any other way. For example, I wanted a Macbook Pro and I knew the onboard video card could run my favorite games at a full 60 fps.. So I asked for a sales person to get me the laptop in the cage. Instead, I was given a lecture by the sales person on why "Macs can't play games" and I should get this HP "gaming" laptop (17 inches, neon lights, etc). I tried to educate him on things like bootcamp, nVidia series numbers, and even the games themselves, but nothing got through. He was told at some point in his life that "Macs can't play games" and that's that.
It's gotten to the point where if I want to cancel a service or return a product and they ask "what was wrong?" I simply say "it wasn't the right fit for me" or "I just want to try something else". It's not worth getting in an argument about because there are no winners and you aren't going to educate anyone that gets paid to sell, sell, sell. Educate yourself ahead of time of the store's policies and if the rep tries to give you sh*t, just ask for a manager and be sure you are able to quote policy if need be.
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
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Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
I'm fine with people not knowing if its that important i will usually know about it anyways. I just dislike it when I get a bull crap response in return. If I do receive one I don't make a scene and argue with them. I just thought that response was worth a chuckle or two.
atsim said:
Could have read it wrong,but looks like he was returning his phone and the att rep asked him why. So he told them. what was wrong with that? He didn't take his phone to att thinking some kind of magic was going to take place and it wouldn't lag anymore. That was the att rep saying if he actavatied it he wouldn't have that problem. Again maybe I read the op wrong.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
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Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
geokhentix said:
I work for AT&T. I'm not a tech support slave, I'd like to keep my title confidential, but I will say that these people don't deserve this kind of trashtalk.
Do remember that over 90% of AT&T's subscriber base is not the type of individual that's going to browse these forums or know what a locked bootloader even is. The % of the Android community that is into modding is way smaller than you think. Why would AT&T train their tech support slaves on locked bootloaders and rooting? 99% of the time, they deal with billing issues and irate customers who are complaining about service drops.
The tech support slaves also don't have training on the internal workings of the tiered system of Android. They didn't make the phone, they can't tell you why it's slow. The only material they have to go off of, is the same material that's available to us from within the box, and the information they catch up on when people call and complain to them. They aren't programmers, they aren't Samsung. They aren't Google. They are a provider of service. I'm sure almost everyone here would agree that it's dumb to call Comcast and ask them why your computer is slow(Not your internet, but your computer). This is the exact same thing. What do you expect them to say when you say "I'm not going to get the S4 because it has a locked bootloader"? Do you expect the response to be "Well sir I can assist you with that. Please dial this 24 digit number and the pound key and your bootloader will be unlocked.", how do you expect them to fix it for you? Locked bootloaders happen for a LEGAL reason, and the bootloader has already been unlocked. Everyone on XDA is so impatient and rude anymore, it makes me not want to be a part of the degrading community.
In my opinion, the person calling AT&T to complain about their phone being slow and laggy shows less common sense than the AT&T rep who can't help them. Just because they're "Tech Support" doesn't mean they can magically give you explenations out of the nether or fix any problem you might have with the hardware that they did not manufacture. Android is an operating system. If you bought your computer from Walmart and it came with Windows installed, would you call Walmart and ask them questions about why your system isn't performing the way it's supposed to, or would you call Microsoft; the people responsible for the software on the device?
Cut these people a break. It's impossible to police the entire bug list of Android across every handset on the market. 90% of the Android user-base wouldn't even notice that the phone was performing slowly when it shouldn't. Us here at XDA are a huge minority.
When I saw this thread, I laughed, not because of what the AT&T rep said, but because the OP was expecting them to give them some detailed analysis on why their phone is lagging. Maybe AT&T should start hiring their tech support slaves directly from Google Interns, then these wambulance threads wouldn't happen.
If you had any idea how much "training" is required to work in any kind of support department for AT&T, you would think twice before crying on forums about how they didn't rifle off a fix for every little problem you have.
As to the comment above me, I will recite the same. Sales people aren't scholars of technology. He's correct that gaming on a Mac is very uncommon, considering almost every computer game in existence runs on DirectX, which is owned by Microsoft, thus not able to be efficiently included in OS X. Do you really damn the salesman for telling you that Windows has 3498230948230948x more gaming capabilities than a Mac? Because I hate to tell you this, but he's right. If I were the salesman, I would try to prevent you from grossly overpaying by 200-300% for a device that you're going to have to jump through hoops for to play an insanely large library of games. What makes it even more hilarious is that now you can install OS X on a Windows based machine, so you're literally overpaying 200-300% for a shiny white Mac because you are a sheeple. Show me any Mac, and I'll build you a Windows computer with Mac OS-X on it for a third of the price. But seriously, If you want to buy a Mac for gaming and you want them to talk to you about strictly Macs, go to an apple store. If you go to a computer store, they're going to try to talk you into Windows, because it's what 85% of the world uses. This is also not a random statistic, although the study is a few years old.
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I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
As for this being a "degrading community" please get off this forum, as it's clearly not for you.
raqball said:
Agree!
It's like people expect that store (best buy, cellular ect) employees all have a BAS or MBA in computer science..
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Click to collapse
My only gripe is when the person you are talking to (best buy, AT&T, etc) claims that they KNOW they are right because they've had some Saturday afternoon training.
See my example above. All I did was ask for a Macbook Pro from the Best Buy rep and I was questioned on my purchase. A more recent example was the AT&T rep asking me why I cared about the release date of the Galaxy S4 because "it's not like this is an iPhone". It shouldn't matter if it's the S4, iPhone or even a dumb phone. Just answer my question and I'll be on my way.
Even when I went to the store to pick up the S4, the AT&T rep started the phone, and logged in as his own Gmail account and installed a "task killer". He had the phone behind the desk where I couldn't see and by the time I had gotten it in my hands, he had logged out of his account. I asked simply "why did you install this?" and he said "well that's so your phone doesn't run slow. Just run that every couple days and your good". I just factory reset as soon as I got in the car and went on my way.
mcmb03 said:
I tend to disagree. While sure, the reps may not be "informed" they still shouldn't try to talk out of their asses about something they don't understand. If anything this would shy me away from a product than entice me to get it. Imagine if you go to a restaurant and you ask the waiter/waitress about ingredients in a dish, they don't make stuff up if they don't know, they go ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
"Degrading community"; go look at the bootloader unlock thread and see how many people are crying and being impatient and just downright rude because djrbliss decided not to release HIS WORK until he sees necessary, and then tell me this community isn't degrading, and if things keep going in this direction, I will find my way off this forum...Because you are right, it's not for me, because I am not an impatient troll that bites the hand that feeds me just because I don't want to wait a few weeks. I do know that this is irrelevant to this thread, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It bothers me so much. I want to punch everyone being jerks in that thread......right in the face.
No I didn't think it was rude. This is xda though people get crazy over the smallest thing. How many lag threads do we have now? Ahaha things get outta hand fast.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using xda premium
geokhentix said:
They are paid to handle your questions. That is their job. They are not allowed to say "I don't know.", or they will lose their job. If I were at a restaurant and asked a waiter about the ingredients in a dish, I would know that the restaurant obviously made this dish themselves. AT&T did not manufacture the S4. It is not their hardware. It is not their software..well, a small portion of it is. But either way, they shouldn't be held responsible for the physical malfunctions of a device that they didn't themselves produce.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, no worries, all in good fun right? I don't condone lying, but they aren't allowed to tell you they don't know, they'll lose their jobs if that happens too often...they're basically forced to lie if they can't give you a definite answer. Damn, if I get one bad survey, my director breathes down my neck like a dragon and threatens to send me to gitmo.
geokhentix said:
Considering the title of the thread is meant to find humor in the reps response, it doesn't really matter how it came about. If he wanted to return his phone, do it without picking fun at people who are literally paid to be treated like dirt. I have to talk to support every single day in my job, and trust me, it can be a huge headache, but I don't hold it against them because I know that when I hang up with them, 9 times out of 10, the next person that picks up the phone is going to scream at them.
Perhaps I was a little rude, I meant no offense to any of you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a retail sales leader for one of the major 4 in the US I find the OP to have every right to post what he did and use the Thread title he did. The sales rep that helped him in an effing dolt. Along the same lines as the reps that tell customers that they need to condition a Lithium Ion/Lithium Polymer battery. You need to calm down bro.
mcmb03 said:
I didn't say they should say they don't know, they should go find a more well-informed rep at the store and find out, unless you condone of AT&T reps to lie to their customers.
Also I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just something that really pisses me off, and I'm not trying to flame you or anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
MrGriffdude said:
Exactly making something up is worse then not knowing just tell me you don't know and be done with it. don't make something up and misinform people
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
geokhentix said:
When my job is on the line and I have a family to feed and I have no information in front of me about the problem you're having, I'll tell you that your phone is slow because there's a small civilization of gnomes inside your device that are getting a little too sexual and overbreeding
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that people would definitely believe!
.....i don't have time to jump through all this dude's hoops, follow all his specifics. I'm a business man with limited time on my hands.
Does anyone know of a service (pay or otherwise) or individual (pay or otherwise) who can unlock a Tmobile Note 5 and wants to get paid and is ready to get it done? I read about that other guy. He wants to be contacted (a specific way), he wants to found (a specific time) and i don't have time for all that crap. I am looking for someone who wants to get paid and can get the job done without all the anal processes in-between like a "service" does. Sorry if it offends but i've always been a no-nonsense type of person and having to jump through that guys hoops is nonsense. The dude replies to me (which usually indicates someone is up and around) and then when i say "okay" he's like "wrong time" (why did he even respond if he wasn't willing now?).
Sorry but screw that nonsense.
Who can do it and wants to get paid?
Kilroy5150 said:
.....i don't have time to jump through all this dude's hoops, follow all his specifics. I'm a business man with limited time on my hands.
Does anyone know of a service (pay or otherwise) or individual (pay or otherwise) who can unlock a Tmobile Note 5 and wants to get paid and is ready to get it done? I read about that other guy. He wants to be contacted (a specific way), he wants to found (a specific time) and i don't have time for all that crap. I am looking for someone who wants to get paid and can get the job done without all the anal processes in-between like a "service" does. Sorry if it offends but i've always been a no-nonsense type of person and having to jump through that guys hoops is nonsense. The dude replies to me (which usually indicates someone is up and around) and then when i say "okay" he's like "wrong time" (why did he even respond if he wasn't willing now?).
Sorry but screw that nonsense.
Who can do it and wants to get paid?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found a guy on eBay that sent me the code in a couple of hours
Sent from my LEX727 using Tapatalk
I ended up going to this guy.
https://www.facebook.com/gsmserviceremote/
He's no-nonsense, he's fast, we talked while he remoted in, on my PC, and got it done in 25-35 mins. This guy has the BEST price i've ever seen for an unlock too.....wow. Where "most" (and i went through all the legit places i had been using for YEARS) places charge $40-120, this guy only asked $15....i mean that's a GIVEAWAY price compared to a lot of services online.
There are a few prerequisite files you need to install to get started but that's about 2-5 mins worth of setup stuff.
Don't mess with that other guy, who did the post about unlocking "Domestic and International", that dude's a real whiner and has TOO many anal rules about dealing with him. :crying:
The guy i listed below, has a much more flexible schedule, doesn't mind working straight off something like Facebook chat, and he gets it DONE. :victory:
The guy i listed below.....there's NO jumping through idiotic hoops and special conditions to get to him. :good:
https://www.facebook.com/gsmserviceremote/
I do not live in the United States, sorry my English is not very good.
I bought this great phone on Ebay, but when I updated it it was blocked in GSM, I read procedures but without any results, the third-party pages do not work for me, I guess because the IMEI is not in any database.
I followed the tutorial by contacting on Twitter but I'm not a T-mobile customer, nobody helps me.
thanks
Same with me. Please help
takaishy said:
I do not live in the United States, sorry my English is not very good.
I bought this great phone on Ebay, but when I updated it it was blocked in GSM, I read procedures but without any results, the third-party pages do not work for me, I guess because the IMEI is not in any database.
I followed the tutorial by contacting on Twitter but I'm not a T-mobile customer, nobody helps me.
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
have you tried contact the seller and return it?
Mine was unlocked by Cellunlocker.
I've solved it, with T-mobile on Twitter. They have unlocked.
takaishy said:
I've solved it, with T-mobile on Twitter. They have unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How,just contact them? What should I provide?
The most straightforward solution is to find somebody that your know who has Tmobile service. Stick their sim in the phone and ask them to call customer service and then Tmobile will unlock the phone no problemo. Unfortunatley i dont have friends that dumb that actually pay full price with Tmobile, they all use Tmobile MVNO's
This takes some very advanced social engineering skills because you are asking Tmobile to bend the rules for you. I finally had sucess over the telephone. Dont recommend FaceBook or Twitter, that is the long road to China.
This is best recommended method:
1) Call 1-800-937-8997
2) Press 0# then 0#, then 0# at the menu to finally be able to speak to a human
3) When humanoid answers tell them" Hi, I was just speaking with technical support and they escalated my call to "Advanced Support Team" but my battery died and I was disconnected......
4) Now when you get to Advanced Support Team you can start explaining your situation. Otherwise dont waste your breath because you will be speaking to a brickwall. Only the advnaced support team has the authority to whitelist your IMEI and add it to the Tmobile database. This is what you need to accomplish, therefore the normal CSR's do not have the power to assist you, you must speak to advanced support team and the fastest way to speak to them is to lie and say you where just talking with them but call got disconnected. This is Social Engineering 101 here, thats the golden rule that when you already know that a supervisor is the only one that can make an exception to give you what you want then the fastest way to get them on the line is to lie and say you where just speaking with them and got disconnected. This way you have already been "vetted" so they will just escalate the call right away in most cases.
4) You can make up any sob story or excuse here but in reality the less that you say the better. You can break into tears and say "Oh My God, I already explained all of of this......"
In reality if you go with my original script than you wont even need to explain "the reason" that you need the phone unlocked, they wont even ask since you have already been vetted. Other people can chime in with their excuses.
Im going to Africa to work as a missionary and they dont have T-Mobile over there. That one is always a winner. =)
It took 2 hours and a callback but finally I got the phone unlocked. So it is possible. Dont give up! Here are some of the good things you have working on your side:
1) There are no notations on your account because they place notations on telephone numbers but since you dont have a phone number there are no notations. Therefore you can lie your head off and there is no way to disprove anything you say. Armed with that information its time for you to put on an academy award winning performance. LoL. (If you sense you are getting nowhere with a particular rep than just say "Im sorry, Im going to have to call you back...theres somebody at the door" and then hang up, wait 5 minutes and call again. Make sure you always get the name of the rep you are speaking to (but never ask their name at the beginning of the call because it is a rude gesture) ask their name near the end of the call and this way if you have to call back you wont embarass yourself by trying to con the same person twice.
2) Rep will be happy to help you as long as you dont act rude or angry. The best emotion is nervousness and gratitude. We are begging here basically, there is no sense of entitlement here or "I deserve it". Be the kind of person that people WANT to help, not a jerk.
Dont give up. My mentor always told me:
We make the impossible possible. With persuasion. Its an alchemy of words. Listen to the song on YouTube "Europe - The final countdown". That will get you hyped up before making the call. Let it become a lesson in life: People are happy to help you if they like you.
fc3211 said:
This takes some very advanced social engineering skills because you are asking Tmobile to bend the rules for you. I finally had sucess over the telephone. Dont recommend FaceBook or Twitter, that is the long road to China.
This is best recommended method:
1) Call 1-800-937-8997
2) Press 0# then 0#, then 0# at the menu to finally be able to speak to a human
3) When humanoid answers tell them" Hi, I was just speaking with technical support and they escalated my call to "Advanced Support Team" but my battery died and I was disconnected......
4) Now when you get to Advanced Support Team you can start explaining your situation. Otherwise dont waste your breath because you will be speaking to a brickwall. Only the advnaced support team has the authority to whitelist your IMEI and add it to the Tmobile database. This is what you need to accomplish, therefore the normal CSR's do not have the power to assist you, you must speak to advanced support team and the fastest way to speak to them is to lie and say you where just talking with them but call got disconnected. This is Social Engineering 101 here, thats the golden rule that when you already know that a supervisor is the only one that can make an exception to give you what you want then the fastest way to get them on the line is to lie and say you where just speaking with them and got disconnected. This way you have already been "vetted" so they will just escalate the call right away in most cases.
4) You can make up any sob story or excuse here but in reality the less that you say the better. You can break into tears and say "Oh My God, I already explained all of of this......"
In reality if you go with my original script than you wont even need to explain "the reason" that you need the phone unlocked, they wont even ask since you have already been vetted. Other people can chime in with their excuses.
Im going to Africa to work as a missionary and they dont have T-Mobile over there. That one is always a winner. =)
It took 2 hours and a callback but finally I got the phone unlocked. So it is possible. Dont give up! Here are some of the good things you have working on your side:
1) There are no notations on your account because they place notations on telephone numbers but since you dont have a phone number there are no notations. Therefore you can lie your head off and there is no way to disprove anything you say. Armed with that information its time for you to put on an academy award winning performance. LoL. (If you sense you are getting nowhere with a particular rep than just say "Im sorry, Im going to have to call you back...theres somebody at the door" and then hang up, wait 5 minutes and call again. Make sure you always get the name of the rep you are speaking to (but never ask their name at the beginning of the call because it is a rude gesture) ask their name near the end of the call and this way if you have to call back you wont embarass yourself by trying to con the same person twice.
2) Rep will be happy to help you as long as you dont act rude or angry. The best emotion is nervousness and gratitude. We are begging here basically, there is no sense of entitlement here or "I deserve it". Be the kind of person that people WANT to help, not a jerk.
Dont give up. My mentor always told me:
We make the impossible possible. With persuasion. Its an alchemy of words. Listen to the song on YouTube "Europe - The final countdown". That will get you hyped up before making the call. Let it become a lesson in life: People are happy to help you if they like you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you have a T-Mobile account???
No I dont have a Tmobile account.
THANKS A LOT!!!! You're the best, i will try this today, wish me luck
fc3211 said:
This takes some very advanced social engineering skills because you are asking Tmobile to bend the rules for you. I finally had sucess over the telephone. Dont recommend FaceBook or Twitter, that is the long road to China.
This is best recommended method:
1) Call 1-800-937-8997
2) Press 0# then 0#, then 0# at the menu to finally be able to speak to a human
3) When humanoid answers tell them" Hi, I was just speaking with technical support and they escalated my call to "Advanced Support Team" but my battery died and I was disconnected......
4) Now when you get to Advanced Support Team you can start explaining your situation. Otherwise dont waste your breath because you will be speaking to a brickwall. Only the advnaced support team has the authority to whitelist your IMEI and add it to the Tmobile database. This is what you need to accomplish, therefore the normal CSR's do not have the power to assist you, you must speak to advanced support team and the fastest way to speak to them is to lie and say you where just talking with them but call got disconnected. This is Social Engineering 101 here, thats the golden rule that when you already know that a supervisor is the only one that can make an exception to give you what you want then the fastest way to get them on the line is to lie and say you where just speaking with them and got disconnected. This way you have already been "vetted" so they will just escalate the call right away in most cases.
4) You can make up any sob story or excuse here but in reality the less that you say the better. You can break into tears and say "Oh My God, I already explained all of of this......"
In reality if you go with my original script than you wont even need to explain "the reason" that you need the phone unlocked, they wont even ask since you have already been vetted. Other people can chime in with their excuses.
Im going to Africa to work as a missionary and they dont have T-Mobile over there. That one is always a winner. =)
It took 2 hours and a callback but finally I got the phone unlocked. So it is possible. Dont give up! Here are some of the good things you have working on your side:
1) There are no notations on your account because they place notations on telephone numbers but since you dont have a phone number there are no notations. Therefore you can lie your head off and there is no way to disprove anything you say. Armed with that information its time for you to put on an academy award winning performance. LoL. (If you sense you are getting nowhere with a particular rep than just say "Im sorry, Im going to have to call you back...theres somebody at the door" and then hang up, wait 5 minutes and call again. Make sure you always get the name of the rep you are speaking to (but never ask their name at the beginning of the call because it is a rude gesture) ask their name near the end of the call and this way if you have to call back you wont embarass yourself by trying to con the same person twice.
2) Rep will be happy to help you as long as you dont act rude or angry. The best emotion is nervousness and gratitude. We are begging here basically, there is no sense of entitlement here or "I deserve it". Be the kind of person that people WANT to help, not a jerk.
Dont give up. My mentor always told me:
We make the impossible possible. With persuasion. Its an alchemy of words. Listen to the song on YouTube "Europe - The final countdown". That will get you hyped up before making the call. Let it become a lesson in life: People are happy to help you if they like you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
---------- Post added at 12:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------
fc3211 said:
The most straightforward solution is to find somebody that your know who has Tmobile service. Stick their sim in the phone and ask them to call customer service and then Tmobile will unlock the phone no problemo. Unfortunatley i dont have friends that dumb that actually pay full price with Tmobile, they all use Tmobile MVNO's
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may be in USA for tourism a couple of weeks, will i be able to unlock it if i lend my phone to a friend who has tmobile?? I read the phone has to use tmobile network for 40 days, i wont be staying that long.
Thanks
guideahon said:
THANKS A LOT!!!! You're the best, i will try this today, wish me luck
---------- Post added at 12:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------
I may be in USA for tourism a couple of weeks, will i be able to unlock it if i lend my phone to a friend who has tmobile?? I read the phone has to use tmobile network for 40 days, i wont be staying that long.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you know somebody that has Tmobile than all they have to do is call Tmobile and say that the LG G5 belongs to them and that they want to unlock it because they will be travelling to South America or Europe. As long as they have had service with Tmobile (on a different phone) for more than 40 days than Tmobile will do it no problem.
But for those who dont have Tmobile service and dont knwo anybody who does than follow my advice from the earlier post, just ask to be transferred to tech support and then when you get to tech support tell them you where just on the phone with Advanced Support Team and got disconnected. Trust me that they have the ability to unlock the phone but you will have to persuade them to do so. If you get a real stubborn person than just say "I have to go I will call back later" and then call back in 5 minutes and talk to somebody else.
Hi fc3211! Thanks! Can you contact the supervisors in a different way (not by phone)? Or is this the only way?
So, a bit of a backstory. I'm part of a parenting group who does work with the local school system. They help lower income families and such, and during the remote learning part of COVID they were responsible for giving out tablets and hot spots to allow children without the means to remotely learn. Well now that remote learning is over they had surplus tablets and hotspots and because my fiancée and I are in a parenting group/education class we were entered in a raffle sponsored by them. We won tablets. Tab A 10.1 Wi-Fi tabs. Nice as hell. They came loaded with a Knox configuration for a company for early education called HATCH. Inc. It uses an app called IGNITE!. The security profile locks the wallpaper, and a few other things that are obviously centered around the school stuff. Well, a lot is unlocked also, but I'm concerned about my privacy and inability to upgrade and/or install apps of my discretion. I reached out to the head company several times for them to unlock it. I opened the developers options and was able to enable USB debugging as well as OEM unlock to unlock the bootloader. It had the option readily available. Since then, I have tried EVERYTHING to uninstall this security profile by flashing custom ROMs and everything. I've googled several dozen hours and have installed drivers, .tar recovery files, apps, Odin, flashers, rooters, romers, holy relics, mantras, novels, movies, self-help magazines, you freaking name it I've done it. I also have yet to find a clear, DEFINED set of instructions for my SPECIFIC model of tablet, and the firmware downloads are questionable. Please, PLEASE freaking God above, PLEASE, one of you android gurus help me! I can't get up with the company to remove it because they don't return calls or emails, and I can't find any real help online. This is so freaking aggravating. I OWN THIS TABLET. IT IS MY PROPERTY. Someone, help me disable this Knox crap, so I can use my tablet at my discretion. Please.
That's quit a story...
Indeed. Quite the story and quite the debacle. Most definitely one of the most annoying things that I've dealt with in a long while.
nundril said:
Indeed. Quite the story and quite the debacle. Most definitely one of the most annoying things that I've dealt with in a long while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try to stick to just the pertinent facts especially with issues like this. The axion the longer the story the bigger the lie applies to my former statement. You didn't snap on me so I'll give you the benefit of doubt.
You won't like the answer but the easiest way is to get the IT department to delete the work profile. Not much of a prize if they don't. Some face to face encounters might motivate them better. Rub it it in if you have to, and don't take no for an answer. May take multiple people, trips, letters, whatever, climb the ladder to the top of that administrative chain if needed.
Consider it a lesson in assertiveness, you can never get too much of this type of training and it's free.
Otherwise the solutions you see in the Google searches are what's available.
Understandable. As of now I've just stuck to emails and phone calls. The head office is located about an hour and a half from my location so a ride to them for me and my fiancee tablets to work might be worth it. Appreciate the response and the honesty, I just figured I would explain the situation because I've seen so many times where a situation could've been handled had it been explained in greater detail. Just trying to convey the whole situation to an audience with zero knowledge of me or the situation as to hopefully reach someone with the knowledge to help, that's all.
Knox is a true pain. I avoid using it as much as possible because of the trouble it can cause.
XDA gets at times 1 request a day to bypass FRP lockouts. Some of those are stolen devices.
My dead mother's, friend's, etc. , I forgot it, it was like this when I bought it, my professor assigned us to hack it; the list is endless. Most are first post new members.
Of course some are innocent victims that got caught up in the machine as it were. Best advice is to return to vendor/do a charge back or get the unlock code from the last owner.
Rock simple stupid works the best.
If you're in the right the satisfaction of getting it resolved outweighs the time spent. I'm one of the few people who has gotten a refund check from Sony... it took dozens of calls. It was worth it in satisfaction alone
Do you think that calling Samsung customer support would make something shake? I mean considering we are legitimate owners, of which the instructors of our parenting class (who are employees of the early education place who distributed the tablets) are happy to attest to. I talked to them and they said to email or call and they would verify ownership and the details of the raffle etc etc to whomever reached out to them. If Hatch. Inc won't answer my calls perhaps Samsung might be able to help? Just trying to gather info at this point.
nundril said:
Do you think that calling Samsung customer support would make something shake? I mean considering we are legitimate owners, of which the instructors of our parenting class (who are employees of the early education place who distributed the tablets) are happy to attest to. I talked to them and they said to email or call and they would verify ownership and the details of the raffle etc etc to whomever reached out to them. If Hatch. Inc won't answer my calls perhaps Samsung might be able to help? Just trying to gather info at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can try, Samsung customer support is notoriously horrible. Replacing the mobo would fix it. There maybe less drastic ways to resolve it.
The source of your dilemma are your benefactors not ensuring the gifts were properly decommissioned. They should see their mistake is rectified if they are sincere. Actions have consequences... even if by omission.