Last night browsing the market, after having my phone reset for constant rebooting, I downloaded an app called "adult videos." I woke this morning to find the app wiped from my phone and from the market. Now, the problem lies not in the fact that this app is missing from my life, but in the question is google sneaking around in the middle of the night tampering with people's phones? I read that article about google remotely removing apps from phones strictly on a necessity based need. It kind of makes me wonder how selective they will be when determining what is necessary.
Google has the ability to do this and have flexed their muscles with that feature too recently,cant post links but google: "google remove android application". It uses google talk to send these removal requests. In normal conditions google will only delete apps that were malicious. (spyware/damaging/ddos/fraud/etc)
Most smartphone/ebook platforms have remote kill switches now. The more worrying part is that they also have the ability to install apps onto remote phones.
Google does this with android too? This is one of the reasons I dont like apple. This sounds like rediculous invasion of privacy. How does this work exactly?
Read the link.. disturbing both the install assett and the remove asset options. Plus the fact that Android maintains a constant data connection. Is there anyway to kill this constant connection? do you get charged for it? and can you disable the install and remove assett options?
It's Google, they live and survive off your information!
They went round WiFi snooping when they did Streetview, so God knows what they do with your mobile phone...
hungry81 said:
Google does this with android too? This is one of the reasons I dont like apple. This sounds like rediculous invasion of privacy. How does this work exactly?
Read the link.. disturbing both the install assett and the remove asset options. Plus the fact that Android maintains a constant data connection. Is there anyway to kill this constant connection? do you get charged for it? and can you disable the install and remove assett options?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This connection is maintained by using google talk. So as long as you are online on google talk you have a hotline to the kill switch. After these security concerns I bet some chefs are working on ROM with the kill switch disabled. But nearly all smartphones have kill switches nowadays, companies like Google, Apple and Microsoft don't want to be seen as unable to get rid of a malicious app which would impact on their reputation.
Edit: Thinking about it, if you have extreme worries about this, install some kind of firewall (like iptables (requires rooting)) and block mtalk.google.com.
The best part about these google phones is the ability to make them your own. I am currently waiting for cyanogen's mod 6 which I am pretty sure won't constantly chat with google, but I think that the fact should be recognized of who the major players are in the cell phone game. Remember that 'incident' google had with china, and how the NSA and google became friends after that. Hmm... The largest data analyzer teaming up with the largest data collector, google also reports higher sales every quarter now as well, that is alot of direct connections with alot of people. I'm not sayin' anything...I'm just sayin'.
El_Zilcho said:
Edit: Thinking about it, if you have extreme worries about this, install some kind of firewall (like iptables (requires rooting)) and block mtalk.google.com.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm..... no.
r3s-rt said:
Ummm..... no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm why not? Its a Linux system below the dalvik vm. There are people who got iptables running on their system and when done correctly iptables. Be aware when I talk about this, I am talking tin foil hat style here.
What if someone modifies AOSP code to just remove the INSTALL_ASSET and REMOVE_ASSET portions of the code?
Google, don't go Apple way!
http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/android-also-gives-google-remote-app-installation-power-062510
Old news, but they've made me "a little bit" angry Is there any way to remove all that crapware?
hmmmmm well figuring they just got in trouble for stealing multiple GB of data from private routers I'd say its a sure bet. Also I recently took a federal job and low and behold they already had my gmail account on file even though I have never given it out and only use it for family and friends, but the feds sure had it.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/28/new-licensing-service-replacing-existing-copy-protection-metho/
Looks like pretty soon the days of people copy and pasting apk's all over the place are coming to an end.
I hope this doesn't make theming harder.. We'll see.
From reading that article,
Seems like airplane mode or a firewall would crush all the hopes and dreams of google and app devs.
It seems that every time we open an app it needs to verify that it's been paid for by contacting a "licensing" server and retrieving a response.
I feel like that could slow down launch times, and being unable to use an app when offline would be like UBISOFT hell all over again.
I really hope google puts a lot of thought into this..
I wonder if this if already being done? Every time I try to play that golf game on my EVO on an airplane while the radios are off I get a FC when it starts. As soon as I an on the ground and turn the radios on the game works fine.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
what if you are in an area with no signal or on a plane or something? you cant open any apps???
This is already in place in a number of apps, one is IP Cam Viewer.
I paid the money for it. I transferred all my files to my wife's Evo 4G, and thought "hell I'll see if it works..." Well it didn't. When I try to open the app, it tells me that I have to purchase it from the marketplace.
I'm all for buying apps when they're good, and I understand single user licensing. Guess I was just hoping I wouldn't have to spend double the money for all the apps I use.
simplyphp said:
This is already in place in a number of apps, one is IP Cam Viewer.
I paid the money for it. I transferred all my files to my wife's Evo 4G, and thought "hell I'll see if it works..." Well it didn't. When I try to open the app, it tells me that I have to purchase it from the marketplace.
I'm all for buying apps when they're good, and I understand single user licensing. Guess I was just hoping I wouldn't have to spend double the money for all the apps I use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard of couples sharing the same email as apps get replicated on the two phone
I can confirm that they don't get replicated..
I have two evo's right now under the same email and they're definitely not replicating crap.
cahiatt said:
I wonder if this if already being done? Every time I try to play that golf game on my EVO on an airplane while the radios are off I get a FC when it starts. As soon as I an on the ground and turn the radios on the game works fine.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that's a problem I understand about paying for apps but not working when I'm in a place with no signal. I see a law suit brewing up. I paid for the app I should be able to use the app whenever I want to. Class action law suit coming real soon.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Crap....
"A limitation of copy protection is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, a copy-protected application cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access"
...Seriously???
EDIT - the above quote was misrepresented in the place I copied from...research shows it to be misleading. the actual bit of Google's text is posted over on page to of this thread. disregard my indignation in this post...
This is discouraging, because a lot of people like to try the full before they buy it expecting more than what full has to offer, only to be disappointed later.
willwgp said:
This is discouraging, because a lot of people like to try the full before they buy it expecting more than what full has to offer, only to be disappointed later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do get a 24 hour refund option when you buy from the market so I'm not worried about trying before you buy. I do worry about not being able to play something when I'm in the bathroom at work because I don't get a signal there.
well how many ppl do actually piracy apps??? oh my bad forgot that this is Android, for a second i though it was apple!!
Just to clarify a couple of things:
There are 2 ways to use the Licensing - one is Strict - you CAN NOT USE THE APP WITHOUT ACCESS TO MARKETPLACE. Personally, screw that.
Option 2, however, is a non-strict policy. Server managed, where the license is 'cached' to storage. You also can programmatically set how long your app can be used without any license check.
That'd be the way i go
josue85 said:
You do get a 24 hour refund option when you buy from the market so I'm not worried about trying before you buy. I do worry about not being able to play something when I'm in the bathroom at work because I don't get a signal there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That'll be up to the developer. I like this approach, as I'd be happy to do say... a 5-7 day turn around on the license check. After 7 days with no data signal, seriously, where the hell are you? LOL
Besides, if you've used a paid app for 7 days, and by that time can't decide if you need it or not - wow.
And of course, as soon as you got signal again, the license check would go through and you can use the app again, no problem.
I'm sure there will be UbiSoft and EA style implementations though - way too damn draconian for my tastes. I don't care to know every single second that someone's using my app. I would just like to know that they haven't 'copied that floppy' as it were LOL
I have no doubts this will be defeated in time, though. All it would really take is mimicking the server license response, which can be extracted from the locally cached license of an actual paid product.
People that pirate software are going to do it, regardless. Don't make the honest people pay the price of draconian DRM.
The best approach I can make as a developer, is give my customers the features they want, in a stable, good performing package, and discourage 'casual' piracy. Beyond that, it's out of the developer's control, and honestly, any more than that usually just pisses off the customer and annoys the pirates for about a day and a half.
Ok...had to read the SDK paperwork as I really wanted to know this...my previous post was incorrect and here is the update...
From Google:
Android Market Licensing is a flexible, secure mechanism for controlling access to your applications. It effectively replaces the copy-protection mechanism offered on Android Market and gives you wider distribution potential for your applications.
A limitation of the legacy copy-protection mechanism on Android Market is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, an application using the copy-protection mechanism cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access, and the application cannot be installed to a device's SD card.
With Android Market licensing, you can move to a license-based model in which access is not bound to the characteristics of the host device, but to your publisher account on Android Market and the licensing policy that you define. Your application can be installed and controlled on any compatible device on any storage, including SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also...there are options for the Devs to allow for apps to be used a chosen number of times before they need to check in for licenses. Strict has to check in every time....other option allows dev to choose based on times used or time since last check in.
SO...all in all I am much less worried about this now.
topdnbass said:
I can confirm that they don't get replicated..
I have two evo's right now under the same email and they're definitely not replicating crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With licensing the dev can choose whether an app can be accessed from different phones. It is an option...
(greeked...multiple times)
Question: Does that mean we won't be able to open, modify, and resign apks? Like...to change the appearance (make a widget clear, etc).
More like bad news for paying consumers. That's who always pays for everything. Those of us who actually buy the products.
I plan on speaking with my wallet. I wont buy any app that requires I have an internet connection.
A limitation of the legacy copy-protection mechanism on Android Market is that applications using it can be installed only on compatible devices that provide a secure internal storage environment. For example, an application using the copy-protection mechanism cannot be downloaded from Market to a device that provides root access, and the application cannot be installed to a device's SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait so according to google us rooted folk couldn't download copy-protected apps before now?
Urrr, i think im missing something
This is actually a nice implementation for both the software developer and the user. Most will implement this where it only has to check-in every week or two. So the odds of getting caught in a spot where there is no connection is low.
At the end of the day, it is a pretty straightforward way to handle copy protection that really shouldn't inconvenience anyone.
Also it will bring more developers to the platform if they know they don't have to worry as much about piracy.
Piracy will still run rampant. People will find ways to circumvent this, that's just how it is. At least it will curb some piracy since copying and pasting an apk file wasn't much of a deterrent.
My wife and I would like to be able to track our two teenaged sons whereabouts. I have been playing with several apps. My wife and I and one son has an android phone, while the other son has an iphone. Can someone recommend a good app to do this? I don't mind paying for the app, but don't want a monthly fee. Also, by the time we all download and find out if the app is good, the return time will expire. Any help is appreciated!
PARick said:
My wife and I would like to be able to track our two teenaged sons whereabouts. I have been playing with several apps. My wife and I and one son has an android phone, while the other son has an iphone. Can someone recommend a good app to do this? I don't mind paying for the app, but don't want a monthly fee. Also, by the time we all download and find out if the app is good, the return time will expire. Any help is appreciated!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about Google Latitude? Do you want consistent monitoring/logging or just one that does find the phone based on a request?
Lookout (Premium) does a great job locating phones per request.
Jackos said:
What about Google Latitude? Do you want consistent monitoring/logging or just one that does find the phone based on a request?
Lookout (Premium) does a great job locating phones per request.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Latitude could work for all of us on Droids, but the iPhone presents a different issue. Boy do I hate iphones!
Cerbrerus or SeekDroid.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Sorry I got no experience with iPhones
d-iivil said:
Cerbrerus or SeekDroid.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! Unfortunately Droid only.
Icloud can locate an iphone via the web
Just enable location services and turn on the icloud account. Then you can log into icloud web site whenever you want and click, find my iphone.
With android, Google doesn't offer that, it's available through multiple 3rd party apps.
tdelet said:
Just enable location services and turn on the icloud account. Then you can log into icloud web site whenever you want and click, find my iphone.
With android, Google doesn't offer that, it's available through multiple 3rd party apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will try that. Thanks!
Thanks for all the help here. iPhone does have a latitude app. Final question. In lattitude, is there a way to see the complete address of the person you are tracking? I have checked and can't find a way to do that. Thanks again!
Have an idea.. no ofence or so but let your teens be teens and stop tracking them... Oo
What the hell if my dad or mom would tell me they want to track me all the time i would ask them if they Fell on the ground and got hurt or something..
the employer blocked the WIFI from employees (obtaining the ip address issue)
we cant access the WIFI in the hotel at where we work and although there are a password you put at the hotel's WIFI website but they did something lately to all of us and it is when any of the staff open the WIFI on his mobile it just keep showing obtaining IP address and no result so if you guys could help me in this and do i have to get a new phone or to try hiding my IP i tried a lot of apps but no way plz help
i've worked on a project like that for a few weeks... couldn't make it happend as the people in my country don't really rely on technology :/
Recommendation
As I understood you are looking for free cross platform application for both Android an iOS. In this case I'd like to suggest you recently launched Fameelee - Family Locator.
This app is free in case you connect up to 4 family members and It has the following features:
- track real time location of your family members
- check location history of your family members for the last 30 days
- in-app private messaging
- GPS notification (called geofencing) once some your loved ones reach some particular places (you match them by yourself)
- ability to send "alarms" with you current GPS location and video of your surrounding
- track sms and call logs of your family members (premium version)
- get notified once your family member speeding (premium version)
In premium version you can connect up to 10 members.
So hope this app will meet your needs.
Well Folks,
So I've been using this OS now for 2 full months and by full I mean I have spent most of my free time learning about it and as much as I find this OS exciting and I believe this is where computing is really at now, I thought I'd share some thoughts on its irritants and get your feedback and opinions about it, so that it could be improved upon in future iterations.
I would like to mention that I have been using computers since the days of punched cards back in the 70s and that I'm no stranger to writing programs, although I am not a computing or IT professional and have only dabbled working on a few programs and scripts only to the extent of doing what was necessary for my work.
That being said, here's some of what I think of this OS, its strengths and weaknesses, its bugs (some, most probably from Google, would insist they are features - more on this later) and its successes. I hope that by posting this others will add their comments, rants and raves as well.
To moderators, if this has already been discussed or of this should be moved to another forum or in any way wish to criticize it, feel free to do so.
***
As much as I was a Microsoft fan during the 90s, this OS sold me as the only one where freedom to innovate and a large community of enthusiasts seem to thrive, whereas Microsoft has become sclerotic and is now under control of corporate culture and thinking, in other words, it's lost its soul and is just running on inertia. I'll stop here so as not to insult the grays who have taken control of it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
The open source / free software (lets not get into semantics, please!) sure has fostered a lot of friendly development and sharing and this is definitely the way of the future, notwithstanding what corporate America believes. History has proven that small entities have always been the most productive in society, and it shows in real life and especially here: Although Google, who is the de-facto giant in control of the platform, officially frowns on user control and participation into the OS, it actually benefits from it and doesn't interfere too much with its evolution and as far as I can see, has actually embraced quite a few innovations that we've seen coming to life here and on other forums.
In other words, they don't like it when developers modify it, but are happy to benefit from it in the end, except perhaps those innovations that give more control to users that they wish users should have, but at least and contrarily to Apple and Microsoft, they are not persecuting those who innovate. God knows we already have way too much of that military-style control in our society where major corporations and their lawyers dictate pretty much what citizens can and cannot do.
As much as this OS is promising with its fundamental openness (at least at its roots) and is the least oppressive of them all, there is still a lot to do, or should I say, a lot of restrictions to lift and doors to open to make it a truly open and free platform for software development, and this goes straight back to Google and its overbearing influence on the development of this OS. But I guess we have had to sacrifice some freedom in order to get some support from this corporate giant; so here are some things that, over the past two months experience with the platform, I find severely lacking and in dire need of rethinking:
- Google's overbearing attitude and control over users, especially personified in the Play Store, where one cannot comment freely anymore and the use of which has been aggravating to no end and THE cause of crashes and dysfunction of the device: It only works some times and is so ingrained in the OS that when it misbehaves, you often have to no choice but to reinitialize the OS (aka the 'cold boot'), which, of course, causes havoc with your data and personal settings, which brings me to my next issue:
- The File System: Where is my stuff stored and why is it so difficult to find it and save it? You'd think it's a crime to save your own data! What gives? Why is it so difficult for apps or user settings to be saved in a location chosen by the user? Just try this: of all you apps, how many of them can you access the data from outside of the application and keep safe for the next time when your phone needs to be reinitialized?
- Connection to external devices: We all agree that connection is king and the key to efficient use of portable devices. Can someone explain to me then why does Android make is so difficult to access and transfer files between LOCAL DEVICES such as USB drives and computers and why it must hide some parts of itself and makes every effort to hide user data and keep it out of reach from its owner?
- The Cloud Fad: why is it that Google insists so much on taking over my Data? Why is it not telling me where it is stored and why is it hiding it from me? Knowing how Google manipulates and basically snoops in on everything you do (it's been proven), why would anyone in their right mind trust to have their stuff stored out of their reach when external hard drive so cheap it's almost free? Can someone explain what the advantage is to me, especially when wireless connections are precarious at best and data transport costs more and more? You find that 'convenient'?
- Background Data: Can someone tell me why my device needs to transport SO MUCH stuff in the background and why it needs to do so when it can operate quite happily otherwise when it notices that there isn't a data connection available? Doesn't Google realize that Wireless Data is horrendously expensive? Why can I not, as a user, control what data is sent back in the background in a granular way instead of having to shut it down at system level? Is Google afraid what users might find out about what information is sent to their servers without their explicit knowledge? Which brings me finally to
- Permissions: Why is it so difficult for users to control application permissions? Just like licenses, we only have the choice to 'take it or leave it', without any true knowledge what we sold the devil. Permissions are pernicious and should be under total control of the user. Those developers who need those permissions should explain them all and make it possible for users to deactivate them all so that users could see if the reduced functionality is worth it or not. LET USERS DECIDES WHAT GOES ON THEIR DEVICE!
***
So that's it for my Saturday afternoon rant. Like I said, these things have irritated me for a long time. If you have objections, comments or accolades and additions, here's the place to do so, unless of course the moderators decide otherwise: if this has been discussed somewhere else and I've bothered you with this post, by all means let me know.
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is the beauty of Android
Mattix724 said:
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Mattix724 said:
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Mattix724 said:
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
***
In any case, I thank you for pointing out the practical solutions and workarounds and for getting the ball rolling, so to speak; but my point was more philosophical: WHY should we have to essentially "fight system" with these workarounds to do such straightforward things as as saving documents in a place of the user's choosing, being able to transfer files directly to his PC and being able to keep user privacy?
doesn't that bother anyone?
Shouldn't Android become more open and accessible as a platform that truly empowers its users and leave Apple and Microsoft to cater to those who couldn't be bothered?
Looking forward to your answers!
I sware people will complain nomatter what
Sent by Hellybelly 4.2.2
Disabling Background Data Completely?
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Old faithful said:
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
zelendel said:
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'm using Avast and its firewall doesn't have the option to turn off background data on Wi-Fi, it's either turn off Wi-Fi or not, no option to just turn off background data and leave access to foreground data. I've tried a few other apps that don't have this option either; it's all or nothing.
Do you know of any apps that have that granular choice? Could you suggest a few?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Old faithful said:
...
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
edscholl said:
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Count your blessings!
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access, but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Old faithful said:
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Background Data Implications
edscholl said:
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
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Click to collapse
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
To turn off background data go to settings, select Data Usage, press menu button and the check the restrict background data check box.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
You can go even further and customize each apps background data usage from the same screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sorry, just saw where you were talking about background data via WiFi....:banghead:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Old faithful said:
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Old faithful said:
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Konvey said:
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access
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Click to collapse
If you can direct me to an app that allows me to COMPLETELY shut off background data for all apps including the OS, for any type of connection, incuding WiFi, I wouldn't be so concerned, but I have looked for the past two months now and found nothing so far that does that, even the acclaimed Droidwall can't turn background data off, even when everything is turned off, meaning, NO data access whatsoever: the bloody "OS Services" still happily does its thing in the backrground, and there is no way to find out what it does (I tried tPacketCapture - I only get 24 byte long files that I can't read anything out of)
Since it would seem that the problem is deep within the operating system, it would seem that the only way to completely shut off background data would be to give a local host redirect for every BACKGROUND process, such as what is possible in Windows using a 127.0.0.1 riderect. Since I'm a newbie when it comes to Android I don't know how to do it, but surely there must be a way, or a way to connect to WiFi only on demand?
Konvey said:
but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
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Exactly. I am still looking for a file explorer with the functionality of my old Norton File Manager (remember that one?). I can't understand why the so-called 'expert' ones such as Root Explorer don't have accessible sorting features (why hide it in settings? Isn't that a basic, essential feature of any file management system to be able to sort based on these common criteria?).
Furthermore, I'd love nothing more than being able to swipe left from the home screen directly into the file system for direct access to shortcuts, packages and data, and to be able to specify where the OS shoudl store MY data (instead of keeping it hidden as is most often the case).
Konvey said:
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
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Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I'll never have an Apple product in my house, no need to say more, we all know about Apple's control of its users and tyrannical ways. George Orwell had it mostly right, but where he failed is where Big Brother would come from: Not the government. Or perhaps we should say that Major Corporations, through the power of their lobbies, have indeed become the de-facto Government .
Thanks again for your answer, Ed.
edscholl said:
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shutting WiFi off after use is what I've been doing of late, but it's an uphill battle. The minute I turn WiFi back on, the OS, like a ravenous dog, immediately gets into background data mode, trumping the foreground querries by volume. But it's a start
edscholl said:
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
edscholl said:
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each his own, Ed. When data costs $10 for 100MB and the most you can get is 1GB for $60 (or as low as $30 on promo), you quickly come to your senses. That's, of course, another issue altogether.
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
edscholl said:
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Old faithful said:
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and as I said, my weather widget uses (beautiful widgets) like 1mb a month. On my phone, the HTC sense widget uses like 5mb.
So if your weather app - again, what apps, specifically, are you having issues with? - is using hundreds of MBS, maybe it's doing a lot more (like live radar or videos), or maybe it's just crap and you should uninstall it.
Old faithful said:
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are tilting at windmills. The average page size is pushing 1.5mb, and was more than 1k back in the Netscape beta days (15k average ~1995).
It's not uncommon for a http HEADER to be bigger than 1k.
Old faithful said:
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your looking at the past through rose colored glasses if you remember more meaningful content being available in 1993. In mid 1993, there were 130 webpages, total. End of 1993, around 1000. End of 1994, around 10000. And a lot of them were useless crap that students were putting up (I know, I was one of them).
Old faithful said:
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about accepting it without question. It's mainly you haven't given much specifics, so the only general answer is, well, it's for convenience, so turn off your data if you're worried. The details you did give - email and weather - it's very clear why they would use background data.
---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------
Regarding your other points:
Old faithful said:
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
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Click to collapse
That you didn't know where it was doesn't mean it is hidden or a secret; guidelines are published and clear, and apps generally follow them. You're not given a choice in name and location for simplicity.
Old faithful said:
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
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Commonly claimed, but rooting does not void your warranty. Problems you cause by rooting will do not need to be honored by the warranty.
Old faithful said:
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
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No app imposes anything on you - apps require the permissions they do and they're spelled out before you install. Don't install apps that required permissions thou don't like.
Old faithful said:
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like your phone is broken. Get a replacement under warranty.