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[Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores [Upd 25/05]

I'm going to write this as an guide/information page so we stop as soon as possible the stupid discussions about how 8 cores are useless.
[Update 25/05]
The below information was based on how things should have been. Reality is the Exynos 5410 has some serious issues with its cache coherent interconnect / CCI which cripples the chip to only cluster migration, effectively making the major parts of the big.LITTLE operating scheme useless. This is an issue in silicon which cannot be solved.
[/update]
What's it all about?
The Exynos Octa or Exynos 5410 is a big.LITTLE design engineered by ARM and is the first consumer implementation of this technology. Samsung was their lead partner in terms of bringing this to market first. Reneseas is the other current chip designer who has publicly announced a big.LITTLE design.
Misconception #1: Samsung didn't design this, ARM did. This is not some stupid marketing gimmick.
The point of the design is to meld the advantages of the A7 processor architectures, with its extreme power efficiency, with the A15 architecture, with extreme performance at a cost of power consumption. The A7 cores are slightly slower than an A9 equivalent, but using much less power. The A15 cores are in another ballpark in terms of performance but their power consumption is also extreme on this current manufacturing generation.
The effective goal is to achieve the best of both worlds. Qualcomm on the other does this by using their own architecture which is similar in some design aspects to the A15 architecture, but compromises on feature and performance to achieve higher power efficiency. The end result is for the user can be expressed in 2 measurements: IPC (Instrucitons per clock), and Perf/W (Performance per Watt).
In terms of IPC, the A15 leads the pack by quite a margin, followed by Krait 400, Krait 300, Krait 200, A9, A7, and A8 cores, in that order.
In terms of Perf/W, the A7 leads by a margin, followed by A9's and the Krait cores, with the A15 at a distant last in terms of efficiency.
Real-world use
Of course, the Exynos Octa is the first to use this:
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Currently, the official word seems to be that the A7 cluster is configured to run from 200 to 1200MHz, and the A15 cluster from 200 to 1600MHz.
There are several use-cases of how the design can be used, and it is purely limited by software, as the hardware configuration is completely flexible.
In-Kernel Switcher (IKS)
This is what most of us will see this in our consumer products this year; Effectively, you only have a virtual quad-core processor. The A15 cores are paired up with the A7 core clusters. Each A15 has a corresponding A7 "partner". Hardware wise, this pair-up has no physical representation as provided by an actual die-shot of the Exynos Octa.
The IKS does the same thing as a CPU governor. But instead of switching CPU frequency depending on the load, it will switch between CPUs.
Effecively, you are jumping from one performance/power curve to another: And that's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
The actual implementation is a very simple driver on the side of the kernel which measures load and acts much like a CPU governor.
The above is a demonstration; you can see how at most times the A7 cores are used for video playback, simple tasks, and miscellaneous computations. The A15 cores will kick in when there is more demanding load being processed, and then quickly drop out again to the A7 cores when it's not doing much anymore.
Misconception #2: You DON'T need to have all 8 cores online, actually, only maximum 4 cores will ever be online at the same time.
Misconception #3: If the workload is thread-light, just as we did hot-plugging on previous CPUs, big.LITTLE pairs will simply remain offline under such light loads. There is no wasted power with power-gating.
Misconception #4: As mentioned, each pair can switch independently of other pairs. It's not he whole cluster who switches between A15 and A7 cores. You can have only a single A15 online, together with two A7's, while the fourth pair is completely offline.
Misconception #5: The two clusters have their own frequency planes. This means A15 cores all run on one frequency while the A7 cores can be running on another. However, inside of the frequency planes, all cores run at the same frequency, meaning there is only one frequency for all cores of a type at a time.
Heterogeneous Multi-Processing (HMP)
This is the other actual implemented function mode of a big.LITTLE CPU. In this case, all 8 cores can be used simultaneously by the system.
This is a vastly more complex working mechanism, and its implementation is also an order of magnitude more sophisticated. It requires the kernel scheduler to actually be aware of the differentiation of between the A7 and A15 cores. Currently, the Linux kernel is not capable of doing this and treats all CPUs as equals. This is a problem since we do not want to use the A15 cores when a task can simply me processed on an A7 core with a much lower power cost.
The Linaro working-group already finished the first implementation of the HMP design as a series of patches to be applied against the Linux 3.8 kernel. What they did is to make the scheduler smart enough to be able to track the load of single process entities, and with that information to schedule the threads smartly on either the A7 cores or the A15 cores. This achieves much lower latency in terms of switching workloads, or better said, switching the environments (CPUs) to the respective work-loads, and exposes the full processing capabilities of the silicon as all cores can be used at once.
You can follow the advancements of this in the publications of the Linaro Connect summits that happen every few months. The code was only published in the middle of February this year for the first working implementation equivalent in power consumption to the IKS.
Misconception #6: Yes the CPU is a true 8-core processor. It's just not being used a such in its initial software implementations

Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores
Will link to this in my info thread
PHONE SLOW CLICK ME?
1 days 2 s4​

seems there is no Octa version anytime soon
the mass production will start in Q2
http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=22936

Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores
Hehe can't wait foe your kernel Andrei. I was disappointed bythe design but I'll just get me one. My only worry is the tw lags in contacts and unlocking. Also, wouldn't the a7 be 2 slow when multitasking? You open a web site, and xda so the a7 kick in then open a Game. How is the transition done with outstanding the phone lagging? Im very curious about this. Fromthe hands on we can see the phone stuttering a lot.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium

Question. Which one should be a better processor to choose from? The Quad-core snapdragron or the Exynos Octa-core? Exynos vs Snapdragron.

My main concern for the new Exynos is: I'm a S2 user and we all know how Samsung handled their promise of open properly working drivers for the Exynos 4 (as in not). Naturally I don't expect much. Now I only today saw that the Nexus 10 has an Exynos 5 also. Does this stronger Google-connection mean, that the S4 should not face the same problems as the S2 or am I better off with another SoC.

Excellent write-up Andrei.
Much needed to stop all the BS spreading across the forums.

Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores
klaus4040 said:
My main concern for the new Exynos is: I'm a S2 user and we all know how Samsung handled their promise of open properly working drivers for the Exynos 4 (as in not). Naturally I don't expect much. Now I only today saw that the Nexus 10 has an Exynos 5 also. Does this stronger Google-connection mean, that the S4 should not face the same problems as the S2 or am I better off with another SoC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on what u mean by better
Power= snapdragon
Battery savings= Exynos
PHONE SLOW CLICK ME?
1 days 2 s4​

@ Andrei
So how does power consumption in HMP model compares versus the IKS model?
I might be outdated but the IKS model is basically the same concept as CPU Migration, right?
And finally will we ever see Cluster Migration implementations, maybe outside smartphones?

gypsy214 said:
Question. Which one should be a better processor to choose from? The Quad-core snapdragron or the Exynos Octa-core? Exynos vs Snapdragron.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung will make the choice for you; it seems that all LTE models are Snapdragon while the 3G models will be Exynos. Personally, I live in an area where LTE is a rip-off and has minimal benefits, and I find the Exynos more exciting and better.
TingTingin said:
It depends on what u mean by better
Power= snapdragon
Battery savings= Exynos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We don't know why Samsung went with the Snapdragon in the first place, until then, such claims are senseless. I HIGHLY suspect it is because of manufacturing constraints. The GPU on the Exynos will be faster and more powerful, you need to take that into account.
jesr said:
@ Andrei
So how does power consumption in HMP model compares versus the IKS model?
I might be outdated but the IKS model is basically the same concept as CPU Migration, right?
And finally will we ever see Cluster Migration implementations, maybe outside smartphones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Power consumption is identical in ideal conditions. Performance on HMP should be however (theoretically) better since we will have less task migration between the CPUs and the overhead of switching data on the CPU caches will be lower. It also depends if Samsung pulled their head out of their asses and implemented a proper CPUIdle driver with a core power collapse state, if they did, HMP will be undoubtedly better.
IKS is CPU migration, yes.
We won't ever see Cluster Migration as it doesn't make any sense in practical terms, there are absolutely no advantages in it compared to the IKS and you actually waste power by migrating other CPUs in the cluster when they actually don't need to be switched.

gypsy214 said:
Question. Which one should be a better processor to choose from? The Quad-core snapdragron or the Exynos Octa-core? Exynos vs Snapdragron.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we will have to wait until reviews are out to know for sure which is faster/more battery efficient. Also if you want LTE (in the US) I think you will be stuck with the Snapdragon because of the LTE bands supported by the chipset. If I had to guess, I would suggest that the 8 core would be better for power consumption and performance, but that's all it is, a guess.

If I'm playing a 3D game, the phone will use the A15s, right?
Would the Snapdragon 600 be more efficient than the exynos Octa in that scenario?

Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores
rkial said:
If I'm playing a 3D game, the phone will use the A15s, right?
Would the Snapdragon 600 be more efficient than the exynos Octa in that scenario?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How 3d is this game? :sly:
PHONE SLOW CLICK ME?
1 days 2 s4​

James086 said:
I think we will have to wait until reviews are out to know for sure which is faster/more battery efficient. Also if you want LTE (in the US) I think you will be stuck with the Snapdragon because of the LTE bands supported by the chipset. If I had to guess, I would suggest that the 8 core would be better for power consumption and performance, but that's all it is, a guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's good. But i guess I care more about development than LTE. I have no experience with Exynos I don't know how Samsung will be with development wise with the Octave core Exynos. Like releasing drivers etc etc.

TingTingin said:
How 3d is this game? :sly:
PHONE SLOW CLICK ME?
1 days 2 s4​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hah. I mean games that arent sudoku or crosswords.
Just wondering if the S600 would be more efficient during heavy use than the Exynos.​

Re: [Info] Exynos Octa and why you need to stop the drama about the 8 cores
rkial said:
If I'm playing a 3D game, the phone will use the A15s, right?
Would the Snapdragon 600 be more efficient than the exynos Octa in that scenario?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read andrei's misconception no.4....
.....

Chillz88 said:
Read andrei's misconception no.4....
.....
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Click to collapse
I did. That's why I asked the question.
He says the A15 will be least efficient
with the A15 at a distant last in terms of efficiency.
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Click to collapse
But I have no idea how many cores heavy gaming takes up. Also, not sure how the S600 would deal with its cores that arent being used.

TingTingin said:
It depends on what u mean by better
Power= snapdragon
Battery savings= Exynos
PHONE SLOW CLICK ME?
1 days 2 s4​
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In terms of driver support without waiting for month until the community (or much appreciated dedicated community programmers) managed to get things running.​

rkial said:
I did. That's why I asked the question.
He says the A15 will be least efficient
But I have no idea how many cores heavy gaming takes up. Also, not sure how the S600 would deal with its cores that arent being used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the game.
90% of games will run on the A7 cores without ever needing the A15 power.
3D needs minimal CPU power, for example clamping the CPU on our current devices to single-core and 600MHz will have absolutely no effect on benchmarks like GLBenchmark or the Unreal Citadel.
However if the game does physics, A.I. computations, sound effects and who know what else, then the CPU will be loaded.
It also depends how threaded the game is. I don't think that games run more than 1 "heavy" thread, so in optimal conditions you'd only have a single A15 up while having the rest of the pairs staying on the A7 cores.
There is no definitive answer to your question. Just fire up CPU-Spy, reset the frequency states and go play a game and see the result. If you're on an A9 core phone then theoretically if you exceed the 1000MHz state, then that would be over the capacity of what the A7's could deliver and it would switch over to the A15.

I'd be playing something like Fifa and NFS,
Guess I'll have to try it to get a better idea.
Thanks for the explanation

Octa core Exynos no better than snapdragon, so no more whining/boasting

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.

this video show more real compasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt5im3WAZYc

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2258519

Heh, load of bullcrap.
If you do video battery tests you do them on Wi-Fi, congratulations on testing modem battery life. (Same carrier? Same tower? Same time of day? Bravo on apples vs oranges Engadget)
The benchmarks ARE faster on the 9500. Let's not mention that Engadget are incompetent fools who don't understand benchmarking. The Linpack scores are a joke as is CF-bench, one because the benchmark literally takes 0.3s and if you're idling before you press the start button that's not even though time for the CPU to ramp up to highest speed. CF-bench fails due to thermal throttling. At least that's a valid negative point, but not performance, scores are far beyond the 30k mark. I'm also getting funny more realistic results on the other benches: 661ms vs 732 SunSpider, 10% higher Vellamo score, 300 more 3D rating, and I'm sure there's others. Funny how they suddenly don't use GeekBench.
Matter of fact: the 9500 is undoubtedly faster and that's a technical reality. They even state so in their subjective comparison.
As for battery life: I've already mentioned how the early firmware is unfinished. I'm getting roughly 10% per hour usage; right now at 61% and 3h30 screen, and that's with doing benchmarks for the last half hour which ate 9%.
The only correct *video* battery life tests I've seen came from GSMArena (9505) and Russian mobile-review who got 12h.
You're going to have to wait for AnandTech to do a review in a few months to be able to use it as argumental material in such discussions.
Engadget is the pinnacle of ignorance and technical non-reporting, and as they've proved in their botched S3 review last year, the benchmarking seems to be done by the principal of their local baboon academy.

katamari201 said:
All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think people thought that devices using Octa vs. S-600 wouldn't perform comparably. It would make no sense for Samsung not to optimize both to the best of their ability and S-600 is a powerful and efficient chip. You can't help but get the feeling that the s/w isn't "done" on either version based on comments on all the SGS4 forums about lag and display driver issues. That's echoed by some of AndreiLux's comments from looking at the code. Octa is literally the first public implementation of big.LITTLE. All of ARM’s future designs will be based on it. That means Qualcomm’s next generation of chips after S-800 will be based on it also as they license ARM’s designs. I'd expect over time that updates will continue to improve Octa's performance (power and efficiency) whereas S-600 is simply a massaged version of S4 Pro and the OEMs have a lot more experience working with it so there's less upside potential. I'd still buy the i9500 over the i9505 if I were going to get a SGS4 (I'm waiting for the N3) as I think its long-term potential is greater than S-600 and, going forward, I'd expect it to be used in more Samsung devices once Qualcomm's RF360 universal LTE baseband becomes available. Once that happens, unless there's production capacity issues, there no reason Octa wouldn't be Samsung go-to high-end chip. Just my opinion of course.
P.S. - The i9500 has about 250MB more free RAM (13%) than the i9505 as Adreno reserves 500MB for itself while PowerVR reserves a little over 200MB.

matheus_sc said:
this video show more real compasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt5im3WAZYc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny thing is you do the same comparison on another I9505 or I9500 and it will most probably yield different results... they are too close to compare
---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------
BarryH_GEG said:
P.S. - The i9500 has about 250MB more free RAM (13%) than the i9505 as Adreno reserves 500MB for itself while PowerVR reserves a little over 200MB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Where is the source for this? Anyone like to show free ram comparisons between both devices? I am sitting around 750mb free ram,I am Stock Rooted, I have 5 active applications open... And I still have most of the samsung bloat

BarryH_GEG said:
P.S. - The i9500 has about 250MB more free RAM (13%) than the i9505 as Adreno reserves 500MB for itself while PowerVR reserves a little over 200MB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
None of that memory on neither SoCs is allocated to the GPUs. Video memory is reserved on-the-fly from user-space. That unavailable memory is dedicated to camera controllers, image processors, video decoder, and a bunch of other smaller buffers.

katamari201 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get ornery myself some times. Trust me on this, go out, find some nice young lady, make her see God. Later when you read this and are wondering what the hell you were thinking you can apologize. Everybody wins. :good:

Well Said, AMEN
Well said Krabman.....
katamari201 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

AndreiLux said:
None of that memory on neither SoCs is allocated to the GPUs. Video memory is reserved on-the-fly from user-space. That unavailable memory is dedicated to camera controllers, image processors, video decoder, and a bunch of other smaller buffers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?

BarryH_GEG said:
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's not true. My i9505 have 1.78gb of RAM available.

BarryH_GEG said:
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
loollll no ... where are ppl coming up with this nonsense

Who cares really when are we gonna use the phone at max capacity? And 3 months later something better will be out so quit your *****ing and enjoy ya phone
Sent from my GT-I9505 using xda premium

By the time Verizon ships my S4, the next super phone will be out! Seriously, I've got to quit reading these forums.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

1.78gb ram on I9505 here

In any device even low end device you will not find the full ram visible as some is reserved exclusively of the system.
Also the post was on difference between Octa and Quall why would you expect a significant different as if that happens samsung would be trouble because they are the same device right S4 so samsung would tuned both in a way that the performance battery life is almost the same that hows it should be right you cannot say my s4 is slower then yours bec I purchased it from US ????

BarryH_GEG said:
People were saying the i9505 has 1.5GB of available RAM while the i9500 has 1.8GB. Is that true? If it is, what's contributing to the difference?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really doesn't made a huge difference on Android devices. The extra memory just allows you to have more applications paused in the background before the kernel kills them to free up space. With the S3 if you're playing a game and switch to a web browser it's very likely that the game will be closed as it only has 1GB. On the S4 it will stay open in the background.

katamari201 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/06/samsung-galaxy-s4-octacore-review/
The A15 in the octa-core isn't any better or worse than the krait in the snapdragon, either in performance or benchmarks. The extra four helper cores you get doesn't improve battery life. In fact, with the four a15 cores, it is actually WORSE than the more efficient krait cores. All those people bragging about how much the A15 is better than the krait based on thin air speculation really need to shove it up their butt.
It was already expected that the four extra low power cores in an octa core would not make much difference in battery life and actually be worse off than a regular quad-core processor. History has already shown with the Tegra 3's helper core that utilizing low power helper cores is a tricky and inefficient affair. It's not easy to switch between them, to prioritize when to use what, and instead of making a more efficient A15 design, Samsung relied too much on the chip's switching capabilities instead of making an overall better processor.
So if you want LTE, BETTER BATTERY LIFE, rom compatibility and dev support with the most widespread SoC, actual availability in stores everywhere, then stop waiting or worrying about the Exynos octa-core and pick the widely available snapdragon version of the S4. Anyone still spouting how great the octa-core version will be and still lies about it being EIGHT WHOLE CORES! when there's really only four are the biggest trolls in the S4 forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amazing! Where were you all these days??
BTW, I don't have to wait, nor do I have to worry about getting a I9500. Stores near me don't have any Snapdragon variant. I think it's always a good practise not to take advise from a random person in the forums.
Nobody asked for your advise on what version to get. People are knowledgeable enough to make that decision.

[INFO]Processor 101

New processors come out everyday and you are like oh my god which one do I buy which one??
Well here the answer to all your processor related queries!!
Qualcomm Snapdragon​
Qualcomm continues to do what Qualcomm does best – produce a range of high quality chips with everything that handset manufactures need already built in. This time last quarter, we were taking our first look at the upcoming Snapdragon 600 processors which would be replacing the older S4 Pro, another incredibly popular Qualcomm processor.
Qualcomm doesn’t use the exact specification for the Cortex A15, it licenses the architecture from ARM which it then implements into its own Krait CPU cores, the newest version of which, the Krait 300, has shown up in the new Snapdragon 600 SoC...
Since then, a range of handsets powered by Qualcomm’s newest chips have appeared on the market, the flagship Samsung Galaxy S4 and HTC One being the two most notable models which are both some of the best performing smartphones on the market. Performance wise, the Snapdragon 600 has proven to be a decent enough jump up from the previous generation, performing well in most benchmark tests.
We’ve also started to hear about a few devices featuring the lower end Snapdragon 400 and 200 chips, with a range of entry level processors using various ARM architectures heading to the market in the near future. So far this year high end smartphones have received the biggest performance improvements, but these new chips should give the midrange a much needed boost later in the year.
So whilst Snapdragon 600 is certainly the most popular high-end chip on the market right now, we’ve already started to see our first snippets at Qualcomm’s next big thing, the Snapdragon 800.
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}
There’s been lots of official and unofficial data floating around over the past few months regarding this new chip, and from, what we can tell, it looks to be one powerful piece of tech. Qualcomm demoed some of the new chip’s improved 3D performance earlier in the year, and more recently we’ve seen a few benchmarks popping up for new devices, which place the Snapdragon 800 at the top of the benchmark scores come it’s release.
First, there was the Pantech IM-A880 smartphone, which scored an impressive 30133 in the popular Antutu benchmark, followed by the rumoured beefed up version of the Galaxy S4, and most recently the new Xperia Z Ultra which pulled in the most impressive score yet, a whopping 32173. We’ve also seen some more official looking benchmarks from AnandTech and Engadget which confirm the Antutu scores of above and around 30,000, and also gives us a good look at how the chip performs in a range of other tests. The conclusion — it’s a bit of a beast.
These notable benchmarks scores are no doubt down to the new higher clocked Krait 400 CPU cores and the new Adreno 330 GPU, which is supposed to offer around a 50% performance improvement over the already quick Adreno 320. The test results we’ve seen have shown that the Snapdragon 800s CPU is fine compared with the current crop of processors, but the chip really shines through when it comes to GPU performance, which has proven to be even quicker than the Tegra 4 and iPad 4 chips.
We’ve already seen that Qualcomm is taking graphics extra seriously with its latest chip, as the Snapdragon 800 became the first processor to receive OpenGL ES 3 certification and is compliant with all the big graphics APIs.
Quite a few upcoming top of the line handsets are rumored to be utilizing Qualcomm’s latest processor, including the Galaxy S4 LTE-A, Oppo Find 7, and an Xperia Z refresh as well, so the Snapdragon 800 is perhaps the biggest chip to look out for in the coming months
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Exynos 5 Octa​
Moving away from Qualcomm, there was certainly a lot of hype surrounding Samsung’s octo-core monster of a processor. Upon release, the chip mostly lived up to expectations — the Exynos version of the Galaxy S4 topped our performance charts and is currently the fastest handset on the market. The SoC is the first to utilize the new big.LITTLE architecture, with four new Cortex A15 cores to provide top of the line peak performance, and four older low power Cortex A7s to keep idle and low performance power consumption to a minimum.
The chip is certainly one of the best when it comes to peak performance, but it has had its share of troubled when it comes to balancing power consumption and performance. If you’re in the market for the fastest smartphone currently around, then the Galaxy S4 is the one to pick right now, providing that it’s available in your region. It has the fastest CPU currently on the market, and its PowerVR SGX544 tri-core GPU matches that of the latest iPad. But with the Snapdragon 800 just around the corner, there could soon be a new processor sitting on the performance throne.
Looking forward, it’s difficult to see the Exynos retaining its top spot for much longer. Other companies are starting to look beyond the power-hungry Cortex A15 architecture, but Samsung hasn’t yet unveiled any new plans.
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Intel Clover Trail+ and Baytrail​
Speaking of which, perhaps the biggest mover this year has been Intel, and although the company still isn’t competing with ARM in terms of the number of design wins, Intel has finally show off some products which will pose a threat to ARM’s market dominance.
Although we’ve been hearing about Clover Trail+ since last year, the chip is now moving into full swing, with a few handsets arriving which are running the chip, and some of the benchmarks we’ve seen are really quite impressive. Clover Trail+ has managed to find the right balance between performance and power consumption, unlike previous Atom chips which been far too slow to keep up with the top of the line ARM-based processors.
Then there’s Baytrail. Back at Mobile World Congress earlier in the year, Intel laid out its plans for its Clover Trail+, but we’ve already heard information about the processor’s successor. Intel claims that its new Silvermont cores will further improve on both energy efficiency and peak performance. It sounds great on paper, but we always have to take these unveilings with a pinch of salt. What we are most likely looking at with Baytrail is a decent performance improvement, which should keep the processor ahead of the current Cortex A15 powered handsets in the benchmarks, but energy improvements are likely to come in the form of idle power consumption and low power states, rather than saving energy at the peak performance levels
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But Intel isn’t just interested in breaking into the smartphone and tablet markets with its new line-up of processors. The company is still very much focused on producing chips for laptops. One particularly interesting prospect is the confirmed new generation of Android based netbooks and laptops powered by more robust Intel processors, which could give Microsoft a real run for their money.
Intel has clarified that it will also be assigning the additional Pentium and Celeron titles to its upcoming Silvermont architecture as well as using it in the new BayTrail mobile chips. What this potentially means is a further blurring of the line between tablets and laptops, where the same processor technology will be powering a range of Intel based products. I’m expecting the performance rankings to go from Baytrail for phones and tablets, to Celeron for notebooks, and Pentium chips for small laptops, but this naming strategy hasn’t been confirmed yet. It’s also interesting to see where this will stack up with Intel’s newly released Haswell architecture, which is also aimed at providing power efficient solutions to laptops.
Taking all that into consideration, Baytrail has the potential to be a big game changer for Intel, as it could stand out well ahead of Samsung’s top of the line Exynos chips and will certainly rival the upcoming Qualcomm Snapdragon 800 processor. But we’ll be waiting until the end of the year before we can finally see what the chip can do. In the meantime, we’ll look forward to seeing if Clover Trail+ can finally win over some market share.
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Nvidia Tegra 4 and 4i​
Nvidia, on the other hand, has had a much more subdued second quarter of the year. We already had many of the unveilings for its new Tegra 4 and Tegra 4i designs by the start of the year, and so far, no products have launched which are making use of Nvidia’s latest chips.
But we have seen quite a bit about Nvidia Shield, which will be powered by the new Tegra 4 chip, and it certainly looks to be a decent piece of hardware. There have also been some benchmarks floating around suggesting that the Tegra 4 is going to significantly outpace other Cortex A15 powered chips, but, without a significant boost in clock speeds, I doubt that the chip will be much faster regarding most applications.
Nvidia’s real strength obviously lies in its graphics technology, and the Tegra 4 certainly has that in spades. Nvidia, much like Qualcomm, has focused on making its new graphics chip compatible with all the new APIs, like OpenGL ES 3.0 and DirectX 11, which will allow the chip to make use of improved graphical features when gaming. But it’s unclear as to whether that will be enough to win over manufactures or consumers.
The Tegra 4i has been similarly muted, without any handsets yet confirmed to be using the chip and we haven’t really heard much about performance either. We already know that the Tegra 4i certainly isn’t aiming to compete with top of the line chips, as it’s only the older Cortex A9s in its quad-core, but with other processors already offering LTE integration, it’s tough to see smartphone manufactures leaping at Nvidia’s chip.
The Tegra 4 is set for release at the end of this quarter, with the Tegra 4i following later in the year. But such a delayed launch may see Nvidia risk missing the boat on this generation of processors as well, which may have something to do with Nvidia’s biggest announcement so far this year – its plan to license its GPU architecture.
This change in direction has the potential to turn Nvidia into the ARM of the mobile GPU market, allowing competing SoC manufacturers, like Samsung and Qualcomm, to use Nvidia’s graphics technology in their own SoCs. However, this will place the company in direct competition with the Mali GPUs from ARM and PowerVR GPUs from Imagination, so Nvidia’s Kepler GPUs will have shine through the competition. But considering the problems that the company had persuading handset manufacturers to adopt its Tegra 3 SoCs, this seems like a more flexible and potentially very lucrative backup plan rather than spending more time and money producing its own chips.
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MediaTek Quad-cores​
But it’s not just the big powerhouse chip manufactures that have been introducing some new tech. MediaTek, known for its cheap lower performance processors, has recently announced a new quad-core chip named the MT8125, which will be targeted for use in tablets.
The new processor is built from four in-order ARM Cortex A7 cores clocked at 1.5Ghz, meaning that it’s not going to be an absolute powerhouse when it comes to processing capabilities. The SoC will also be making use of a PowerVR 5ZT series graphics chip, which will give it sufficient grunt when it comes to media applications as well, with support for full HD 1080p video playback and recording, as well as some power when it comes to games.
MediaTek chip
A fair bit has changed in the mobile processor space since we last took a look at the market earlier in the year. Here’s a round-up of all the mobile processor news for the second quarter of the year.
MediaTek is also taking a leaf out of Qualcomm’s book by designing the SoC to be an all in one solution. It will come with built in WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS and FM ratio units, and will also be available in three versions, for built-in HSPA+, 2G, or WiFi only variants. This should make the chip an ideal candidate for emerging market devices, as well as budget products in the higher-end markets.
Despite the quad-core CPU and modern graphics chip, the MT8125 is still aimed at being a power efficient solution for midrange and more budget oriented products. But thanks to improvements in mobile technologies and the falling costs of older components, this chip will still have enough juice to power through the most commonly used applications.
Early last month, MediaTek also announced that it has been working on its own big.LITTLE architecture, similar to that found in the Samsung Exynos 5 Octa. But rather than being an eight core powerhouse, MediaTek’s chip will just be making use of four cores in total.
The chip will be known as the MT8135 and will be slightly more powerful that the budget quad-core MT8125, as it will be using two faster Cortex A15 cores. These power hungry units will be backed up by two low power Cortex A7 cores, so it’s virtually the same configuration as the Exynos 5 Octa but in a 2-by-2 layout (2 A15s and 2 A7s) rather than 4-by-4 (4 A15s and 4 A7s).
But in typical MediaTek fashion, the company has opted to down clock the processor in order to make the chip more energy efficient, which is probably a good thing considering that budget devices tend to ship with smaller batteries. The processor will peak at just 1Ghz, which isn’t super slow, but it is nearly half the speed of the A15s found in the Galaxy S4. But performance isn’t everything, and I’m more than happy to see a company pursue energy efficiency over clock speed and number of cores for once, especially if it brings big.LITTLE to some cheaper products.
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Looking to the future​
ARM Cortex A57​
If you fancy a look even further ahead into the future, then we have also received a little bit of news regarding ARM’s successor to the A15, the all new Cortex A57. This new top of the line chip recently reached the “tape out” stage of development, but it’s still a way off from being released in any mobile products.
Cortex A50 performance chart
The Cortex A50 series is set to offer a significant performance improvement. Hopefully the big.LITTLE architecture will help balance out the power consumption.
ARM has hinted that its new chip can offer up to triple the performance of the current top of the line Cortex-A15 for the same amount of battery consumption. The new Cortex-A57 will also supposedly offer five times the amount of battery life when running at the same speed as its current chips, which sounds ridiculously impressive.
We heard a while back that AMD was working on a Cortex A57/A53 big.LITTLE processor chip as well, which should offer an even better balance of performance and energy efficiency than the current Exynos 5 Octa. But we’ll probably be waiting until sometime in 2014 before we can get our hands on these chips.​
The age of x64​
Speaking of ARM’s next line-up of processors, another important feature to pay attention to will be the inclusion of 64 bit processing technology and the new ARMv8 architecture. ARM’s new Cortex-A50 processor series will take advantage of 64 bit processing in order to improve the performance in more demanding scenarios, reduce power consumption, and take advantage of larger memory addresses for improved performance.
We’ve already seen a few mobile memory manufactures talk about production of high speed 4GB RAM chips, which can only be made use of with larger 64 bit memory addresses. With tablets and smartphones both in pursuit of ever higher levels of performance, x64 supported processors seem like a logical step.
So there you have it, I think that’s pretty much all of the big processor news over the past 3 months. Is there anything in particularly which has caught your eye, are you holding out for a device with a brand new SoC, or are the current crop of processors already plenty good enough for your mobile needs?
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Reserved

Great thread, Again.:good:

This is better suited for the general General forum. But good job anyway.

Good job, mate!

Nicely written. I enjoyed reading that.
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Well done. Good read :thumbup:
TEAM MiK
MikROMs Since 3/13/11

[NEWS]Samsung announced the Heterogeneous Multi-Processing (HMP) for Exynos 5 Octa

http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...eterogeneous_Multi_Processing_Capability.html
This is breaking good news for us, though it's still unclear if it's for 5420 only or can be implemented into 5410 through update as well.
If you've been paying attention, you know that the Exynos 5 Octa packs a serious punch when it comes to processing power and energy efficiency. Now, the team at Samsung has made the Exynos 5 Octa even better with the introduction of a new Heterogeneous Multi-Processing (HMP) solution.
Overview of big.LITTLE Technology
Before we jump into the benefits of HMP, let's take a step back and go over the basics ofARM® big.LITTLE technology. In the Exynos 5 Octa, eight CPU cores are responsible for everything from browsing the web to playing your favorite game on your 5 Octa-powered mobile device. Four "big" 1.8GHz ARM® Cortex™-A15 cores handle intensive tasks like graphically rich gaming or HD video playback. Less intensive tasks like e-mail or text functions are tackled by four "LITTLE" 1.3GHz Cortex™-A7 cores. By dividing and conquering tasks and assigning them to the proper CPU cores, big.LITTLE technology maximizes performance while minimizing power loss.
HMP Makes big.LITTLE Technology Even Better
Now this is where HMP comes into play. Like a sports team, big.LITTLE technology relies on a software "coach" to call the plays and assign tasks to each core. In a basic implementation of big.LITTLE technology, this "coach" would alternate between using "big" and "LITTLE" CPU cores based on the computational intensity of any given task, and one core or cluster of cores would remain inactive while its counterpart was engaged.
With HMP, all eight of the CPU cores in the Exynos 5 Octa can be utilized at the same time. This provides users with an unlimited mobile experience in the current mobile environment and also paves the way for more advanced and complex functionality in the future. HMP is extremely versatile. Using a global load balancing scheduler, HMP can assign a single core to handle a task with low computational intensity in order to maximize power efficiency. On the flipside, HMP can also simultaneously utilize each of the eight individual cores in the 5 Octa to run multiple tasks in real time. The global load balancing scheduler pays attention to user workloads and will pull in the necessary available resources for the system to run flexibly and efficiently. By analyzing and assigning tasks,this highly complex software system maximizes efficiency by balancing CPU workload.
The result is the most advanced use of big.LITTLE technology to date and a huge leap forward for multi-processing capability in mobile devices. By allowing for the simultaneous operation of both "big" and "LITTLE" cores in the Exynos 5 Octa, Samsung offers an optimized HMP solution to the balancing act of maximizing mobile device capability while minimizing power loss.
Samsung has always been a leader in big.LITTLE technology, and this new Octa-core HMP solution is an industry first. HMP sets the stage for the future as mobile devices are increasingly called upon to handle complex and graphically rich tasks. Through this innovative solution, the benefits of big.LITTLE technology are maximized to their full potential. Get ready, because the future of mobile processing is evolving, and the Exynos 5 Octa with HMP is leading the way.
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well its definately about the 5420 because 1.8ghz a15 and 1.3 ghz a7 is not 5410 but 5420 sad

hypergamer1231 said:
well its definately about the 5420 because 1.8ghz a15 and 1.3 ghz a7 is not 5410 but 5420 sad
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You get your point there, however I think that's not valid enough as when Sammy do their public announcements they will (of course) talk about the better things. Everything they talk about is "up to"
Anyway I'm not sure about this. I know @AndreiLux mentioned the core migration is impossible because flawed hardware, but HMP should be another story, I guess mostly it's about the Linux kernel. Let's just wait and see.

Hopefully they will release a refreshed version of the i9500? Probably not but here's hoping.

@AndreiLux sorry if i disturbed u but now just want to clarify few things because as we all know ur the master of this Exynos thingy...
"Samsung will enable the HMP solution for its Exynos 5 Octa in Q4 2013."
source: " http://www.sammobile.com/2013/09/10...ocessing-will-be-integrated-in-exynos-5-octa/ "
is it for i9500 or it is just for the new Note 3 powered by Exynos 5420 ?

gdonanthony said:
@AndreiLuxis it for i9500 or it is just for the new Note 3 powered by Exynos 5420 ?
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most likely none of them since they said they will start using it in Q4 2013 ...and because having online all 8 cores and being able to use them all simultaneously mean considerable increase in power consumption at full load my best guess is that the first product using this implementation would be a tablet ...

AvelonTs said:
most likely none of them since they said they will start using it in Q4 2013 ...and because having online all 8 cores and being able to use them all simultaneously mean considerable increase in power consumption at full load my best guess is that the first product using this implementation would be a tablet ...
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exactly.

hypergamer1231 said:
well its definately about the 5420 because 1.8ghz a15 and 1.3 ghz a7 is not 5410 but 5420 sad
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Click to collapse
5420 runs at 1.9GHz&1.3GHz in the Note 3, on the other hand, the 5410 can run up to 1.8GHz&1.3GHz as it does in the Korean variant GS4.
Hmmm...

AvelonTs said:
...and because having online all 8 cores and being able to use them all simultaneously mean considerable increase in power consumption at full load my best guess is that the first product using this implementation would be a tablet ...
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Click to collapse
You don't understand power management.
POLO_i780 said:
5420 runs at 1.9GHz&1.3GHz in the Note 3, on the other hand, the 5410 can run up to 1.8GHz&1.3GHz as it does in the Korean variant GS4.
Hmmm...
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The Korean version has the same clocks as the international.
And, no, this is HMP story only concerns the 5420 products. The 5410 is dead.

Oh?
Unless SamMobile is mistaken to:
http://www.sammobile.com/2013/04/10...exynos-5-octa-kills-qualcomms-snapdragon-600/
I was always under the impression the Korean Exynos GS4 ran at max 1.8GHz, hence why it was capable of scoring +31,000 in AnTuTu.

AndreiLux said:
You don't understand power management.
The Korean version has the same clocks as the international.
And, no, this is HMP story only concerns the 5420 products. The 5410 is dead.
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Click to collapse
thanks for the clarification
u mean 5410 is dead so there is no light for it ?
im slowly accepting now this very bad news

AndreiLux said:
You don't understand power management.
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I do not ... but pure logic says having 8 cores working at max freq all together requires more power than having 4 of them ... or any other compination of them ... or that's not possible even with an HMP enabled SoC?

AvelonTs said:
I do not ... but pure logic says having 8 cores working at max freq all together requires more power than having 4 of them ... or any other compination of them ... or that's not possible even with an HMP enabled SoC?
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Ohh. And why do you think some normal stuff would require anything more than a7 cores.. u understand that most off the apps on playstore would not require even 2 a5 cores at max logically or 4 a15s at half frequency.. so it doesnt matter that all 8 cores are online.. it only depends on how you use it.
For a power user its cherry over cake for others it is a great news for battery life..

Degrated Shadow said:
Ohh. And why do you think some normal stuff would require anything more than a7 cores.. u understand that most off the apps on playstore would not require even 2 a5 cores at max logically or 4 a15s at half frequency.. so it doesnt matter that all 8 cores are online.. it only depends on how you use it.
For a power user its cherry over cake for others it is a great news for battery life..
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Low multi-threadedness is a myth or a product of stupid programming. For one I'm making an application right now which parallelizes the whole UI loading and can make easily use of of 7+ threads scales pretty much infinitely if it's allowed to.
More cores don't cost any power, only die area. You gain tremendous dynamic range and power efficiency. Of course your theoretical peak power consumption goes up but you can just cap that with power management.
The Moto X is a good example of how a dual-core SoC can be less power efficient than a quad-core.

AndreiLux said:
Low multi-threadedness is a myth or a product of stupid programming. For one I'm making an application right now which parallelizes the whole UI loading and can make easily use of of 7+ threads scales pretty much infinitely if it's allowed to.
More cores don't cost any power, only die area. You gain tremendous dynamic range and power efficiency. Of course your theoretical peak power consumption goes up but you can just cap that with power management.
The Moto X is a good example of how a dual-core SoC can be less power efficient than a quad-core.
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I understand. But as you quote did I say the stuff wrong or right?
Sorry for dumb question. Not so good at english.

Degrated Shadow said:
I understand. But as you quote did I say the stuff wrong or right?
Sorry for dumb question. Not so good at english.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong; see for yourself :
yahyoh said:
Woah
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

AndreiLux said:
Wrong; see for yourself :
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Okay understood. But honestly. If all the 8 cores are used how would anyone manage power efficiency?
A15s least frequency consumes higher amount of power than peak power consumption of A7s. Is not that so?
edit: I understood. More cores would cost only die area. They wont cost any power unless they are used more. What happens when die area is occupied more?

I dont think this will make a big difference in battery life. I think the display is the real power hungry in every android device. Also the android system itself.
Smart phone maker should focus on making lighter and smaller battery but better power capacity.
Just my opinion...
Sent from my Nokia 3210 LTE

marc_ecko28 said:
Smart phone maker should focus on making lighter and smaller battery but better power capacity.
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It's better without battery at all with infinite power capacity
Don't limit your wishes!

From Sammobile:
Chinese manufacturer Meizu has some good news. According to Meizu, HMP can be implemented through a software upgrade, and will be made available to the MX3, its current flagship that uses the same Exynos chip as the Galaxy S4. This means that we should see Samsung doing the same for its own devices, and it could be the reason why the Korean manufacturer is only showing off the new eight-core capability without naming a new Exynos chipset.
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In short, Meizu is saying that HMP is possible in 5410 Octa, as their MX3 uses it. So, is Meizu wrong?
http://www.sammobile.com/2013/09/11...-eight-core-devices-through-software-upgrade/
http://www.unwiredview.com/2013/09/...oftware-upgrade-will-get-to-current-products/

Exynos Note 3 possibly won't get HMP update from Samsung

Bad news for fellow Exynos users.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Note...t-core-performance-patch-says-Samsung_id47977
It seems that Exynos 5420 is capable of HMP but will get too hot for the chip to handle.
But the Samsung Engineer does mention that they would comment the HMP update only after a complete testing process to ensure trouble free operation.
Note 3 and Galaxy S4 are unlikely to receive the full octa-core power in their Exynos chipset versions, advised a chief technical expert from Samsung's Mobile Solutions department. Recently the company said that it is able to unleash all the eight cores working at once, which can bump performance significantly, compared to the maximum of four cores restriction we have now with Exynos 5 Octa in these handsets.
The thing is, the engineer comments, that even though Samsung can release a software patch that will allow both the quad-core Cortex-A15 set, and the frugal Cortex-A7 cores, to get together for a task, the thermal envelope of these Exynos chips hasn't been cut for the job.
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i think this is a good move, they can't force this and overheat the phones.
im tempted to buy the exynos here in saudi as they are cheaper than the snapdragon ones even without the 4k part....

system.img said:
Bad news for fellow Exynos users.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Note...t-core-performance-patch-says-Samsung_id47977
It seems that Exynos 5420 is capable of HMP but will get too hot for the chip to handle.
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out of 3 aspects of big little(core migration,cluster migration,hmp), core migration is the most important aspect, since the hardware is fixed any custome kernel for exynos note 3 moght have core migration which will surely increase the battery efficiency

bala_gamer said:
out of 3 aspects of big little(core migration,cluster migration,hmp), core migration is the most important aspect, since the hardware is fixed any custome kernel for exynos note 3 moght have core migration which will surely increase the battery efficiency
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So Exynos 5420 has Core migration instead of cluster migration?

bala_gamer said:
out of 3 aspects of big little(core migration,cluster migration,hmp), core migration is the most important aspect, since the hardware is fixed any custome kernel for exynos note 3 moght have core migration which will surely increase the battery efficiency
Click to expand...
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Nah. HMP is the real thing. Said Andreilux
HMP is extremely useful for power efficiency because you can migrate stupidly faster than DVFS allows you to.
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Sent from My GT i9300

If its true, then its very dissapointing step from Samsung
My question is, if there is so much problems in that chip then why he is selling these faulty chip...and why in india, asian and african small countries where government dont do anything agains this kind of behaviour...and costmers also ignoring these issue..which not good for future.
1 many problems in s4
2 sim locking
3 knockon
....many more ..and some may be coming soon
And now no HMP update for s4 or note 3 ...seems like samsung has over confident of their market share and profit...
Isnt this is kind of monopoly???

ipsuvedi said:
If its true, then its very dissapointing step from Samsung
My question is, if there is so much problems in that chip then why he is selling these faulty chip...and why in india, asian and african small countries where government dont do anything agains this kind of behaviour...and costmers also ignoring these issue..which not good for future.
1 many problems in s4
2 sim locking
3 knockon
....many more ..and some may be coming soon
And now no HMP update for s4 or note 3 ...seems like samsung has over confident of their market share and profit...
Isnt this is kind of monopoly???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung wants to maximise profits by selling phones made with its in-house chip but is not able to integrate LTE in the chip. So, all it can do is to sell the phone with the Exynos chip in non-LTE areas.
But still, I think the Exynos is good too. It's CPU is damn powerful(considering a clock speed of only 1.9 Ghz)

Thermal problems are a poor excuse considering cluster migration is going to be much worse for thermals.
It's also a poor excuse considering HMP is best for power efficiency, meaning over all temperatures should be lower.
Unless they're worried that people will benchmark each thread and burn the chip out, but all they need to do is put thermal throttles and speed throttles with large A15 use.
I don't want to say Samsung are lazy because that's simply a stupid thing to say. Obviously all of this is very difficult and Samsung don't have the right combination and amount of time, talent and money to make it happen.
Core migration is going to be fine, anyway. If they ever bother with that.
Still disappointing anyway :/
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium

SirCanealot said:
Thermal problems are a poor excuse considering cluster migration is going to be much worse for thermals.
It's also a poor excuse considering HMP is best for power efficiency, meaning over all temperatures should be lower.
Unless they're worried that people will benchmark each thread and burn the chip out, but all they need to do is put thermal throttles and speed throttles with large A15 use.
I don't want to say Samsung are lazy because that's simply a stupid thing to say. Obviously all of this is very difficult and Samsung don't have the right combination and amount of time, talent and money to make it happen.
Core migration is going to be fine, anyway. If they ever bother with that.
Still disappointing anyway :/
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have the Linaro team to do the work. They have already accomplished it but it has been shown off with only a prototype tablet.

ipsuvedi said:
If its true, then its very dissapointing step from Samsung
My question is, if there is so much problems in that chip then why he is selling these faulty chip...and why in india, asian and african small countries where government dont do anything agains this kind of behaviour...and costmers also ignoring these issue..which not good for future.
1 many problems in s4
2 sim locking
3 knockon
....many more ..and some may be coming soon
And now no HMP update for s4 or note 3 ...seems like samsung has over confident of their market share and profit...
Isnt this is kind of monopoly???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, someone write a news without any confermation and users say it's good
So.. now.. i'm going to write a news.. santa is real! And all beleave in it..
Too many sheeps in the world
Big little is over any other arch.. it has the best efficiency ever.. and will have it with hmp..
Yup, if you turn on all 8 cores in maxfreq for 10 minutes.. phone burns.. but.. the logic of big little is: use low power cores (A7) for low tasks.. use high power cores (a15) for hugh tasks..
Than.. now you are using the cluater migration, it has 2 "bugs"
1) all cluster switch, so, is alminented the A15 even if it's not necessary, it happes when 1 core goes to A15
2) the switch from 2 clusters blocks computation for little time
The core migration fix the first problem of cluster migration
The hmp fix each 2 "problems"
So.. if cluater migration is good.. core migration is better, and hmp is better and better
Hmp has high overheating? Well, so n3 with cluster will have more overheating.. all with n3 has this issue?
for me.. all of you use too less the brain.. brain is a muscle.. use it!

I do not find thermal envelope explanation for HMP logical. Cluster Migration switches all the cores to A15 even when one thread requires power hence this design is more battery hungry. If Samsung is really worried about crossing thermal envelope, then they can implement something like Intel has done which they call it Turbo Boost. They can effectively reduce max clock speed to 1.5 GHz when all A15 are running but allow it to run to 1.9 GHz when only 1 or two threads are running.
If Samsung refuses to do so, I hope developers find ways to unlock HMP. It is not that I need 8 cores running simultaneously when my laptop hums at 1.3GHz in dual core mode, but when Samsung teases us and there is treasure hidden ready for unlocking, then it is just human nature to want MORE.

voice of my heart
Absolutely right brother. The die hard snapdragon fans can not digest the Exynos big Little processing and just throwing out rumors and I am really shocked how people believe it. I saw in many discussions that readers and mostly writers were not even software or hardware literate they were just speaking and forwarding the rumors. Actually due to lack of sdk from Samsung for exynos the third party custom rom writers can not do much in exynos as they were able to do in snapdragon so this makes them angry and they spread rumors. I have note 3 SM900 exynos and previously I had s4 exynos one. Did not face any problem in s4 ever and it's my 4th day with note 3 and going great so far. In my thinking the little big processing is better than all 8 cores working at the same time and people should see that the big a15 quad core 1.9 ghz gave very very closer benchmarks test results to Snapdragon 800 2.3 ghz and some were higher. People don't understand the chip architecture and just play on rumors.
iba21 said:
Well, someone write a news without any confermation and users say it's good
So.. now.. i'm going to write a news.. santa is real! And all beleave in it..
Too many sheeps in the world
Big little is over any other arch.. it has the best efficiency ever.. and will have it with hmp..
Yup, if you turn on all 8 cores in maxfreq for 10 minutes.. phone burns.. but.. the logic of big little is: use low power cores (A7) for low tasks.. use high power cores (a15) for hugh tasks..
Than.. now you are using the cluater migration, it has 2 "bugs"
1) all cluster switch, so, is alminented the A15 even if it's not necessary, it happes when 1 core goes to A15
2) the switch from 2 clusters blocks computation for little time
The core migration fix the first problem of cluster migration
The hmp fix each 2 "problems"
So.. if cluater migration is good.. core migration is better, and hmp is better and better
Hmp has high overheating? Well, so n3 with cluster will have more overheating.. all with n3 has this issue?
for me.. all of you use too less the brain.. brain is a muscle.. use it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

willstay said:
I do not find thermal envelope explanation for HMP logical. Cluster Migration switches all the cores to A15 even when one thread requires power hence this design is more battery hungry. If Samsung is really worried about crossing thermal envelope, then they can implement something like Intel has done which they call it Turbo Boost. They can effectively reduce max clock speed to 1.5 GHz when all A15 are running but allow it to run to 1.9 GHz when only 1 or two threads are running.
If Samsung refuses to do so, I hope developers find ways to unlock HMP. It is not that I need 8 cores running simultaneously when my laptop hums at 1.3GHz in dual core mode, but when Samsung teases us and there is treasure hidden ready for unlocking, then it is just human nature to want MORE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People doesen't understand what is an hotplug and how it works
The real goal of that arch is called "power gating".. simply it's a technique developed by intel witch AUTO shuts down transistors if those are not in use..
The hotplug uses a software decision to shut down cores.. it's not hardware..
the difference?
Simply, for linux, all cores are everytime turned on, even if the transistors of the core are shutted down.. that's prevent time spent to re-schedule the tasks.. and sure.. linux is a multithreading kernel, it means, more core = more parallelization = less frequency = less power usage
That's the real goal of big.little!
And you understand, if there are 8 cores.. tasks will be shared on more cores, it means it has the best efficiency ever
An ex.. phone ALWAYS have low tasks to be compilet to permit the phone using.. as like the audio task, video task, or, wireless taks.. well, why use an high performance arch for low performance tasks? That's why arm creates A7..
CORTEX.A7 has the best efficiency ever.. so.. the same task in a cortexA7 is compiled with LESS ENERGY than other arch.. so.. it's a perfect way to preserve energy
Sure, A7 is not a performance arch, that's why arm choses to create the A15.. when tasks are too high to be compiled with an A7.. system auto switch task on a A15.. so.. the goal is.. low tasks in A7 (best efficiency) and high tasks in A15 (best performance)
Mix best efficiency + best performance = best arch :thumbup:

Got a feeling they're testing the HMP tech / heat / performance / power consump in NOTE 3 already .........
They were brave enough to have it on display at an exhibition ..... the update seems promising from what I can see!
On the "tune.pk" site there's a "video 1058551" showing "Samsung-Exynos5420-HMP-bigLITTLE-demo" with all 8-cores running!
Hoping to see some actual benchmarks so we know what the before / after results are like!!!

gudodayn said:
Got a feeling they're testing the HMP tech / heat / performance / power consump in NOTE 3 already .........
They were brave enough to have it on display at an exhibition ..... the update seems promising from what I can see!
On the "tune.pk" site there's a "video 1058551" showing "Samsung-Exynos5420-HMP-bigLITTLE-demo" with all 8-cores running!
Hoping to see some actual benchmarks so we know what the before / after results are like!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd be inclined to agree with you. The Lite/Neo Note 3 has it enabled for all 6 cores apparently according to Sammobile

radicalisto said:
I'd be inclined to agree with you. The Lite/Neo Note 3 has it enabled for all 6 cores apparently according to Sammobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The lady from Samsung and Samsung wasnt hiding the Note3 device either ……
My contract is up soon ……
I hope benchmarks show up soon so I can get an idea of either the LTE or 3G one to get!

If you see some of the tweets of SamsungExynos on twitter here https://twitter.com/SamsungExynos it's easy to have a wild guess HMP will be soon released, just a wild guess though looking at their tweets.

radicalisto said:
I'd be inclined to agree with you. The Lite/Neo Note 3 has it enabled for all 6 cores apparently according to Sammobile
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5260 in note3 lite is obbly to be used with hmp.. why?
Cluster and core migrations may have the equal numbers of cores for each clusters, or kernel code won't works
I don't think if samsung will release hmp for the n900 or not.. the only thing i could say is: if samsung will relase a good source code.. I will extract the hmp from the note3 lite code , modify, and add it in my own kernel build.. and this for all kernel modders..
sure, i hope for a direct hmp upgrade by samsung, it will be better, but, we'll do all to try to run it..
I tryed to compile a code takken from internet witch tryes to load hmp.. but.. no possibilities due to an incompatibility with too mouch dependencies of the kernel code, traduct, actual source code is RUBBISH!
We are running universal drivers without any CCI code nor the real base of hmp..
source code core and cluster migration were writes TWO YEARS AGO!
We are runnin a code wroted for the 5410!! Not the 5420!!
That's why our exy suks compared to hmp features!

**** you samsung

Why do we want HMP activated ? The Android OS is not that advanced to be able to manage heat & conserve batteries even on KitKat. Enabling HMP will only ruin the phone hardware and shorting its age. Decision must have been made with careful reasonings.