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This is just a PSA to all you vicious Android fanboys on this forum that hound anyone who asks the question "what phone should I get", especially when one of those options includes an iOS device or a WP7 device.
So let me get this started. I love Android. But Android is not perfect. Take a deep breath, and say it with me again, out loud.
"Android is not perfect." Was that too hard? If so the following explanation is for you.
Ever since Android first came out, people were hailing it as the iPhone killer. But in reality? It's really not. It may be getting there, and may be getting there quickly, but that's not that point.
It may be a surprise to many of you, but there are actually other human beings outside of XDA that use smartphones. Human beings that are not interested in rooting their phones or spending a lot of time completely customizing them or pushing them to the limit. These human beings want their phones to work when they need them, and that's all. Whether these phones are iOS, Android, or Windows Mobile/7 phones is completely irrelevant to them.
Except, it actually is. But see, not in the way most of you seem to think it is.
People shop for phones nowadays because the have an end they need to reach and they need the means to get to that end. Whether it's something as simple as checking an email message or quenching a thirst to play a game, they take into consideration what is the quickest, most hassle-free way to do this. This requirement is not because they are stupid. Most XDA users seem to think that anyone off XDA just buys iPhones because they are uneducated about "the true power of Android" and all that jazz. Guess what? That's not the case.
Yes. Here at XDA, we can do a lot with our phones. We root them, we build custom ROMs for them, we use features that were locked before, or get versions of our OS that aren't out yet.
But please be damn sure you understand that we are the minority. We will always be the minority. Your experience here doesn't define the mobile landscape, it only improves your personal experience with your phone. Just because you took a few hours to root your phone, find the perfect custom ROM, and settle down with it doesn't make the average Joe who just bought an iPhone (because it does what he wants easily and has all the apps he likes) a stupid user.
Here is the meat of this newsflash; Android wouldn't be here if it wasn't for iOS. (Going further, iOS wouldn't be there without Windows Mobile, and etc etc etc until we reached the very first man who asked 'why can't I see my email from my phone'). Apple took a chance on what people wanted, and realized they had something. They built an OS that was based on the ideals of OS X; simple, straight-forward, good looking, and well received. And so began the App and Data revolution. All of a sudden, the idea of having mobile data became real. These wonderful delicious little things called "apps" made the mobile world much more exciting than it had even been before. And so Apple hit a goldmine, and the mobile landscape had been painted. These apps were well-designed, fun, informative, useful, and people liked them so much, they started to buy paid apps. Apple knows how to market to people, and there success showed.
So then. Android.
Android was birthed out of the idea that Google could cash in on this app world. You may think the intentions were noble, with the idea that it was some pipe dream in the same way linux was; completely open mobile platform. After all, if Apple could have the success with a closed system, Google obviously could rock the world with an open one.
But it's not. Android, or at least what most people come to think of as Android these days, is not "open". It's open to phone manufacturers, and carriers, but that's it. It' snot open to the end user. Why else do we have locked down features, closed-source OEM skins that hinder future firmware upgrades? Why else do we have carrier-controlled Market restrictions? Why do some phones not ship with developer tools, or the ability to install from unknown sources?
Let me be frank. I love Android, but Android is a mess. It's a mess of a bunch of wonderful ideas that would have shined like nothing else in the perfect world, but a mess that didn't anticipate a simple fact; businesses like to make money.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have freedom with Android. Every little part of it has a restriction we need to bypass. Do you buy an expensive high end phone, or a cheaper low-end phone? Will you still be able to play those cool games on that low end phone? Will it get software updates? Is it safe from malware? Buying an Android phone has become the same as trying to buy a Windows PC.
It suffers from the same problem that Microsoft does when compared to Apple's line of computers. Apple builds its hardware AND its software, so they interface with complete precision and function. People with iPhones don't need to worry about security updates, or whether their phone will be obsolete. Apple may release a new phone every year, but the point is that those phones are made to last, both in terms of hardware and software. They even went the next step further and made the iPod touch, which gave phone users who weren't ready for smartphones a taste of what it was like.
My Sprint Hero came out on October 11th, 2009. The iPhone 3GS came out in June of the same year. Both were priced around the same amount, but what stands out to me the most when I think back to when I tested both that year? The fact it took Google this long to make an operating system which took ages to mature enough to be used by HTC to make a phone that STILL could not even give me a smooth web browser, something that the very first iPhone was able to do. Games on the Hero sucked in comparison to the 3D games that were playable on the iPhone.
Now then, Android smartphone hardware has advanced to a significant level, but the point of this whole rant is that Google has always been following in Apple's footsteps in the mobile world, and it's going to be that way for some time.
Be a bit humble about the begginings of Android and what it's become, and for f***'s sake, be a bit mature than just saying "LOLOLOL APPLE SUCKS GG GET ANDROID".
Because it's the rest of the world outside of XDA that defines the success of these mobile platforms, because I hate to say this, but you and I are not part of that outside world of mobile phone users, and we never will be.
The truth is, no one can really say what the "perfect" mobile OS is. All we can do is say what works best for us or what we prefer, but when we state it as fact, as though it's not arguable, that's when we become the fanboys that we so dearly hate. Just keep that in mind.
Opinions welcome, fanboyism from either side not wanted at all. Congrats on finishing this post.
Excellent post. Would read again.
Great things said there. I can see a point in it. But still, I don't either see Ios higher as Android since Ios is a mess too. Let me just take this simple statement. Music on a Ipod/Iphone needs to be converted from the computer to the device, you can't random download a song(on the device) from Internet and play it. Same as the file exploring.. if you want to search for a file, you find a file in some folder like: im/af/on/ar/qr, or just some folders which are messy, and the file types are unknown for the computer. All those small things give me the excuse to stay at Windows Mobile. Simply cause we can download music files and play it, simply cause there is great development on it, simply cause it can be customized how we want it.
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
d12unk13astard said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Good job. That must have taken some serious thought to come up with.
This is something I 100% agree with.
When I had a Samsung Moment, I had problems galore with it. Keyboard wouldn't type, horrible support, and the big network lockup. Mind you, a network lockup where you can't call out to anyone is against FCC laws. But just to get some type of damn support for the thing, I almost had to root it. And I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have to depend on an online community for support for a phone when the carrier and manufacturer of the phone should be doing that. What the hell is the point in buying the phone and paying damn near $70 a month if I can't use the damn thing?
Let's also talk about performance of the Moment and how unoptimized it was. The Moment uses the same SoC found in the Iphone 2g, and 3g. The only difference, stock 2g and 3g SoC is 600 mhz, clocked down to about 422 mhz for battery, while the Moment was 800 mhz. Both arm11 cpu cores. The Iphone 2g and 3g despite having almost half the clocked frequency of the Moment, was smoother and had actual hardware support and acceleration. Even this day, Samsung still does not have proper hardware support for the SoC being used in the Moment, Intercept, Transform, Spica, etc etc.
If done right, Android is pretty awesome I'll admit. But if I want a phone to work, I'll get something that actually works.
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
gosualex said:
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
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Good understanding
I love android because I love to tinker. Nothing could ever change my mind short of the os aging. I will say this flaws or not I refuse to give apple my money. So it's either wp7 or android.
My words to live buy if I can't hack it I don't want it. Just my 2cents
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium Apps
I would agree iPhones support is a lot longer no network changes added, updates can brick the phones though.
Android need some love. Fragmentation. Networks slow to update. Ui 's being to sluggish to update the phone to higher levels.
All android phones should be aosp no extras from makers or networks.
Love my cm7/miui.us phone but most people would want to flash it or know how to. They would just think might as well get an iPhone.
Just my feelings. I own apple computers. Custom built pcs android phones had iPhones I still use an iPod touch in the kitchen as you can get the best speaker docks for them. Use what works best for the situation.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Android security warning !!
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
-gps location
-contacts
-logs
-screenshots
-hidden camerashots
-sms/mms
-emails
-photos
-etc
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS IS FACT !!!
There was a test in germany, where a developer made a app with all the rights to do the things above and send them hidden in the backround to a specified server to that he had access. So he could read and see all the things above and it was even updating immidiatly after a new sms or something came in and the testuser who installed it had no clue at all and was shocked when they told it to her.
The App itself was just making photos with a black censor stripe in the eyes and it seemed that it never could do that, but all the real action is going on in the backround.
By the way, he sayd it was very easy and many apps could do that and most of them really do that.
And what I know, many of you don't know or don't care and spread all your information to some companys that like to have them alot. And they allways want more.
Maybe you should spread this information by quoting this post or linking to it, because many people don't like to be ripped of their information.
Or do you like it, when someone is standing close to you and listens all what you say to your friends, when you have a private conversation ? I think not!
check out my signature also.
and be safe!
edit: i think i should post this as a new thread!
Great post, good read!!
Hard to say any mobile OS is perfect. But the world of mobile OS is developing quickly in recent years.
Haven't played extensively with Android and IOS. Currenly, I still think IOS is more polish. Android definitely have a lot of features and I am looking forward to where they take the OS to in the future. It seems like it's an OS that has a lot of support and has had to "grow up" really rapidly.
I actually agrer with everything in this post. Fact is the best technology in the world is technology that is stable, works, and allows the user to complete what ever task is needed.
Last night it was decided my wife and I are switching to verizon why? Cause the wife wants IOS and I am more partial to android and BB and thats the only carrier that has all 3.
Now to add on what was already said I think google needs to pick one manufacture purchase them then do exactly what apple does marry the hardware amd software together to get rid of what can be a problematic OS simply cause with some manufactures android is worse then on others.
Sent from my SPH-P100 using XDA App
(•.•) said:
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
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You give apps on an iphone or WM phone permissions to do these things too right, so this is a more general problem in the new mobile world...
BTW, I like you're post LiquidSolstice, you could almost call it a fact, it's not that the one is better than the other. It's just that they are different and the majority of people likes easy and simple...
I agree with alot of what LS mentions in the first post. My wife is one of those who could really care less about rooting, overclocking, mem management, or even what version of Android she is using for that matter. She just wants to be able to send that text without the keyboard "hicupping", or to make that phone call without the dialer lagging, etc. I like Android, but I don't like Google's.. well let's say "less than kosher" business practices and corporate involvements. I think a big point to remember is that there will always be people like us that get a huge kick out of toying with electronics. For some, it's a hobby, for others, a career. With that being said, there will also always be those doofies that get on sites like this one and annoy the living crap out of you. Everything needs to be taken in stride, and though there are those who appear to be clueless on a subject, always remember that we all have to learn somehow. Knowledge is not obtained through osmosis.
Android feels like a permanent beta. I prefer iOS for simple tasks plusSbsettings is unmatched. WP7 seems more like a feature phone, it doesn't tell you 'I'm smart.'
I mostly agree
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
tsaxda said:
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
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Well, carrier "bloat" --I put that in quotes because the current three major skins bring much needed features to Android (whether or not the execution is done well or not is a different argument)-- isn't quite what's killing it, it's the time spent optimizing the hardware for Android.
Android gets slapped on as many devices as possible and then sold as a low end affordable smartphone, and that's the issue, but that's the essence of Android at the same time.
ZeGuitarist said:
Excellent post. Would read again.
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+1 Outstanding post. Completely agree.
I've recently acquired a HTC One X, and having had a desire which was rooted from the first moment, and also s-off some time later thanks to revolutionary, I imagined development would be just as simple.
While there is (and was even before production devices were available) a root method for the One-X it requires unlocking a bootloader. A bootloader which then leaves a (so far) indelible electronic mark as to it's having been opened.
HTC promised to unlock bootloaders, yet what they've done is created a contract between a rooter and themselves, whereby the process voids your warranty.
Root access to your phone voids your warranty.
There are many threads on this already so I'm not looking to discuss it here, what does intrigue is that a whole bunch of other manufacturers have essentially gone the same route.
Asus have an encrypted system, Barnes and Noble tablet required a hardware hack to enter a recovery (APX) mode and Motorola have also announced the coming availability of a development device where you trade your warranty for administrative access to a device you own.
I'm typing this post from a Toshiba laptop, whose bios I have never tampered with, but with a W7 install, and VM installs of Windows XP, Ubuntu, Centos x64 and various other OS's.
If I desired I could install any of these OS's and expect to have availability for the drivers for the device, allowing me to perform whatever functions I choose. It's analogy that has been drawn time and again, but none of these actions would void my warranty.
It appears that "open source" is being more loosely applied and undermined.
I don't want to tamper with HTC's "Sense" interface, I don't want to overclock my Asus Transformer.
For years Microsoft bundled Internet Explorer with Windows, eventually falling foul of anti-trust law in the US and competition laws in the EU. Phones should be subject to to the same initiatives.
It appears all the manufacturers are going the same route, following the same trend of locked and encrypted bootloaders.
There's more than one launcher, just as there's more than one web browser. If I wish to stop Touchwiz from running and install a different interface from the market, I should not have to take risks with the health of my device in order to perform a simple administrative function.
Each of us have almost certainly been asked by our peers what phone they should buy. We influence the market because we understand the technical sides of the devices a little more than the average man in the street. I'm losing patience with certain manufacturers and I'll not be recommending their devices to anyone again.
It's essential for the health and long term success of the Android OS that manufacturers cease penalising the development community. It's a feedback loop where we add value to their devices, even if it's simply by recommending them.
We're being cut out of the loop, as the Android devices become more locked down and the users more locked out the entire Android idea starts to eat itself.
+1 couldn't say it better
Agree with your post.
To me it seems like a cheap trick to rip us of the warranty fast & easy.
On the other hand unlocking a bootloader also means changing the kernel most likely. By changing the kernel many people oc their cpus to extreme levels.
Why shall the company take responsibility for those damages?
Rooting on the other hand should not void the warranty in my opinion.
There are easier ways to stop overclocking or at least limit the effects of overclocking.
It's something the phone providers trot out but there is no basis to the argument.
I agree with you
Agree wid ur post
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
+1 totally agree
While I agree to this, almost anyone who roots is going to use a custom ROM. By rooting, you're telling them that it's fine, you do not need their warranty. You will rely on outside, free help if something goes wrong, because let's face it, they aren't building these things for us to root them.
Generally PCs are far less brickable, too. PCs are more modular in nature. There is not a single phone or tablet, of any brand, that is at all modular.
And anyway, from what I've read of many warranties for a PC, adding new hardware voids the warranty as well. Or at least disables it for the duration you use that new hardware inside of it.
Just think of it that way. A bricked PC is so much easier to fix than a bricked phone or tablet. In this way, if something does go wrong by something they aren't letting you do willynilly, or letting the general, far-less-techy normal end user, they're covering their own ass.
It'd be nice if they didn't hide that though.
We laugh at iPhone users that Apple limit what they can do with their devices
I think the gap between us get narrower each day.
Another terrible reply.
Phones are difficult to recover because they are made that way.
I've crashed and messed up a laptop install, but I was able to reach for a linux cd (or windows), re-install the software on to the drive (because the system partition wasn't totally locked down) and then install the drivers required because they were made available.
Your analogy is simply regurgitating the argument of companies like HTC and Asus who are prepared to sell you the hardware, just so long as you don't want to do anything with it other than what they prescribe.
The warranty debate is not for here, simply their decisions to lock down YOUR hardware will kill development.
At some point Google will have to step in and do something about the situation. Start taking control of what has the potential to be a wonderful product.
abo.saud said:
We laugh at iPhone users that Apple limit what they can do with their devices
I think the gap between us get narrower each day.
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TWO BIG thumbs up for abo, LOL
Yeap, when all Android devices got locked up, Android fanboys will cry out loud.
Being using so-called open-source but they (manuf.) hancuff dev. and push us into the corner day by day.
f4flake said:
For years Microsoft bundled Internet Explorer with Windows, eventually falling foul of anti-trust law in the US and competition laws in the EU. Phones should be subject to to the same initiatives.
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And I'm kind of surprised nobody has thrown a fit about how smartphones are locked down even more. Microsoft got sued for bundling IE and not allowing you to uninstall it since it was integrated with the OS. You could still install a 3rd party browser and set it as default, and you could still install another OS if you wanted to.
Today we have Android phone OEMs that bundle bloatware which cannot be uninstalled without voiding your warranty and rooting. Bootloaders are locked and now batteries are non-removable. Its all a way to make your phone obsolete quicker so you have to replace it sooner.
I agree with you about the bootloaders and such I am using a one x from AT&T and if I had known about s-off and bootlodaer locks I woulda went with another Samsung device I'm coming from the best dev phone there is so far the captivate completely unbrickable proof that devices can be made modular and completly open source we buy.these phones we.should be able to do with them as.we.please.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
I ran into this article today and I wanted to see what the people on XDA think about it. This company is working on a Android phone that it's primary purpose is to protect the users privacy.
Here's the link: http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/1/1...nn-silent-circle-geeksphone-blackphone-launch
Read the article, watch the video and let me know what you think.
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
Saw news about this and came here to seek out does any1 have opinions about it.
i wonder, does the safety come from hardware or is it the OS what makes this so safe.. if it is the OS, i hope some1 smart enough makes custom rom for this.
I really don't see how this phone is gonna change anything. Apps and websites have keyloggers, You still need a carrier to get service from and they have control of all your traffic. What about radio frequencies that can be intercepted, IP addresses, GPS chips sending signals to satellites, baseband and firmware are connected thru the cell towers of the carrier. I'm starting to think this phone is a scam.
They said nothing about how they're dealing with all this. They are probably using the whole NSA scandal momentum to fool people into believing they are safe if they buy this phone.
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
I saw an article about this venture also. This is a good thing. If he gets press about this phone, maybe other venders will take notice and start building in privacy features as well. :good:
I don't see the need for new hardware here. If they really want to secure something, they could create a mod for Android, that could be installed on a variety of devices for example.
Besides, if they encrypt telephony, messages and stuff, they will need to be decrypted again - but the question is where and how? I bet they won't have any hardware encryption module and even if they do, it will make communication with other phones impossible. Software encryption means other phones will need to install some additional software to communicate with the Blackphone and it might be a bit inconvenient.
orangek3nny said:
I don't see the need for new hardware here. If they really want to secure something, they could create a mod for Android, that could be installed on a variety of devices for example.
Besides, if they encrypt telephony, messages and stuff, they will need to be decrypted again - but the question is where and how? I bet they won't have any hardware encryption module and even if they do, it will make communication with other phones impossible. Software encryption means other phones will need to install some additional software to communicate with the Blackphone and it might be a bit inconvenient.
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That's a good point. how a non blackphone device is gonna decipher the encryption? how is it going to get the key? How can a non blackphone device even a establish the same "secure" connection?
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
Andronote3 said:
That's a good point. how a non blackphone device is gonna decipher the encryption? how is it going to get the key? How can a non blackphone device even a establish the same "secure" connection?
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
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I think you are missing the point. As you or I may not NEED this kind of security, I'm sure you can think of someone who does.
Obviously, there would be two levels of privacy/security... Connections between 2 black phones and everything else. So who utilize a black phone? How about corporations and governments? Law offices, professional sports teams, or doctors and hospitals.
Now, even though I do not NEED this, if it was affordable, I would heavily consider it.
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JamieFL said:
I think you are missing the point. As you or I may not NEED this kind of security, I'm sure you can think of someone who does.
Obviously, there would be two levels of privacy/security... Connections between 2 black phones and everything else. So who utilize a black phone? How about corporations and governments? Law offices, professional sports teams, or doctors and hospitals.
Now, even though I do not NEED this, if it was affordable, I would heavily consider it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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I understand what you are saying and I completely agree with you. It looks like a device that corporations and the government would "benefit" more than regular users. Either way, It won't fix 90% of all the problems people face when it comes to staying safe against privacy/security breaches. I truly believe that they are using the whole NSA scandal momentum to make people believe that they are safe/secured if they buy this phone.
P.S: Nice quotes.
I saw this phone.
It isn't an answer to every privacy issue.
What its an answer to is, not having to agree to an android apps permissions to gain access to the app.
These apps don't make their money off the app sales, they make their money sending information to retailers.
Retailers own the world.
The question I still pose is... What's wrong with retailers knowing where you are?
There's nothing you can do about the government. They won't let us make things that are government proof, nor would they (The retailers ) want to.
But, what's wrong with these apps fine tuning my specific desires to my Location?
You can't stop people from stealing your identity. The hacker/firewall paradox is, for every walk you build, they will build a taller ladder.
The only thing really close to full privacy in data sending is, that light source that sends data. It's a light bulb, and the light has data in it, a sensor receives it. It can be held within the walls of a room. But that only effects a closed circuit type system. If that light source is connected to the Internet, then game over.
Why do you think record companies and movie companies keep their computer systems offline and deal in only physical media? A hacker will get into anything I'd you give him the tools and time.
This phone gives a sense of security that is non existant
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SaintCity86 said:
I saw this phone.
It isn't an answer to every privacy issue.
What its an answer to is, not having to agree to an android apps permissions to gain access to the app.
These apps don't make their money off the app sales, they make their money sending information to retailers.
Retailers own the world.
The question I still pose is... What's wrong with retailers knowing where you are?
There's nothing you can do about the government. They won't let us make things that are government proof, nor would they (The retailers ) want to.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2658527
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nailed it
The problem is Android itself. Thanks to Xprivacy, it's a lot easier to control what leaks out of your device. Personally I'd rather see more encryption mechanisms than this. FFOS seems to be on the right path
There Is nothing you can do to stop identity theft.
Nothing.
And there is nothing you can do to do the government from tapping your lines.
You want a safer form of communicating, send Voice recordings over text.
That's an entirety separate warrant, and harder to get. Other than that. It's hopeless
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d1rX said:
FFOS seems to be on the right path
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I think you mean FOSS[1] = Free and Open Source Software. Anyway, I fully agree, in fact, that is the ONLY way. Closed source encryption programs can't be 100% trusted by definition. There might be security flaws, intentional or not.
Anyway. the NSA has backdoors to every operating system[2], so if you're really a target, they get you. Also, there are more than enough security holes in the layers under the operating system[3].
I think what these phones are supposed to do is bring end-to-end encryption for e.g. industry users so they don't get spied on. The NSA and the US government can get their hands on encryption keys for servers like in Lavabits case[4]. But this is the transport encryption. The data is, if not otherwise secured, available in plain text on the servers of providers. This also means, the officials can decrypt ANY data that comes in, not just the one of actual targets.
Now, end-to-end encryption makes sure even the provider can't see your data in plain text because you encrypt and decrypt it on your device. What Blackphone does is, it uses the apps from Silent Circle, a closed source encryption programm for VoIP and messages. Although the owner of that company is the well trusted cryptographer Phil Zimmerman, one can never be sure.
That's a good point. how a non blackphone device is gonna decipher the encryption? how is it going to get the key? How can a non blackphone device even a establish the same "secure" connection?
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You can install and use Silent Circle on any(ok, a lot of) phone(s). Just make sure you don't have additional malicious software installed. Any yes, it costs $100/year or so. And you get a subscription for SpiderOak, sort of a Dropbox but they encrypt the data before uploading. Any you get a better overview over what app uses what permissions. A few extra tweaks basically.
Alternative: Android Phone with CyanogenMod/Replica. TextSecure for messages, RedPhone for VoiP and owncloud for files. Way cheaper too, and open source, also made by well respected cryptographers like Moxie Marlinspike[5]
[1] de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free/Libre_Open_Source_Software
[2] zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-08/nsa-has-full-back-door-access-iphone-blackberry-and-android-smartphones-documents-re"]backdoors to every operating system
[3] forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2530044
[4] techdirt.com/articles/20131002/17443624734/lavabit-tried-giving-feds-its-ssl-key-11-pages-4-point-type-feds-complained-that-it-was-illegible.shtml
[5] thoughtcrime.org
if they want to spy on us they can ... that's it...
More info?
Hi all - looking for more info on this phone - just joined XDADev to post this.
Specifically, what brands might this hardware be found under? Know it's a Tinno S8515 but have yet to find out anything about that; seems like Tinno generally makes phones for other companies?
Any help is appreciated!
Best,
-Cx
:cyclops::cyclops::cyclops:
The greatest challenge to securing a phone is not the OS or the apps running on it, it's the baseband. We have known for well over 30+ yeasr how to harden a *nix based system (like AOS), but we haven't even started to question WTF is going on in the closed source 10-100 MB baseband RTOS, which have fulll access to your entire FS and the most important phone operations, like SIM, RF, EMMC etc etc.
Only forcing the corrupt modem OEM's to release the sources of the Baseband firmware could improve the situation. This will never happen, unless there is another baseband Snowden out there somewhere...
We already know that the BP/CP FW is extremely insecure, and relies almost solely on obscurity as their main mechanism of protection. If this was not the case, the iPhone unlock developers would have been fekked long time ago, and the rest of us would sit around with SIM/network locked bricks filling up our bookshelves.
Unfortunately the greatest majority of the millions of XDA members are completely carefree about this issue and are only happy as long as they can "tweak some ROMs". So this will never be the place to find/see any serious baseband reversing, no matter how important it would be from a security standpoint.
So to summarize, your Qualcomm baseband will continue to send your exact GPS coordinates to the network provider at will, without you ever knowing, and without anyone (here) caring. So goes for the FM transmitter that is part of the baseband FW in both Intel and Qualcomm based phones. Do you have control over that? Never.
Only a serious long term spectrum analysis study could reveal whats going on there, where and when you're not (able) to watch.
This phone is the biggest scam lol.
hyshys said:
Saw news about this and came here to seek out does any1 have opinions about it.
i wonder, does the safety come from hardware or is it the OS what makes this so safe.. if it is the OS, i hope some1 smart enough makes custom rom for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was wondering this too. If it is only the rom (just like the $1300 pwnphone). It should be port-able
iliass01 said:
I was wondering this too. If it is only the rom (just like the $1300 pwnphone). It should be port-able
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blackphone. - no hardware security, just software, and most of it is NOT open source. Some here (@SaintCity86 , @repat) has their points, and they are mostly right! If you want some security (and I said some!!!), then get rid of most of your apps (permission check and some common sense), all Google apps (yes, all of them), install a paid (not free) and high quality VPN software, don't use the phone feature (only data sim-prepaid), get an internet phone number (with no personal details), use end to end encrypted apps to make calls and send and receive texts, install Xposed and Xprivacy (or any other variant) and limit even more the apps you have on your phone. Don't use it as your only phone, but as a secure device and share your number and other infos with trusted people! In this case, maybe, you will be able to add some layer of security and actually be able to use it. And most important, don't give your phone in the hands of anyone! It is a bit paranoid, but it's the only way! But, don't be fooled! You can have some security, only if you stay under the radar, and don't gain some attention. If yes, then you have no luck! Personally, I have seen the Blackphone, and tested it for some time, and I am not really convinced it can be trusted.
Good luck!
Andronote3 said:
I really don't see how this phone is gonna change anything. Apps and websites have keyloggers, You still need a carrier to get service from and they have control of all your traffic. What about radio frequencies that can be intercepted, IP addresses, GPS chips sending signals to satellites, baseband and firmware are connected thru the cell towers of the carrier. I'm starting to think this phone is a scam.
They said nothing about how they're dealing with all this. They are probably using the whole NSA scandal momentum to fool people into believing they are safe if they buy this phone.
Sent from GNote 3 rooted with kingo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would just like to correct this common misconception, GPS is one way.
GPS receivers as found in your phones, or navigation systems, receives GPS signals only. Nothing gets sent to satellites in this process, the algorithm is purely one way.
Perhaps upon reading that, you call to mind Thomas Jefferson pulling out his Android to thwart impeding forces. I actually like that idea, but I know that the time in which John Locke wrote the contributing phrase was much different than today. It was a time of change and also a time when people realized their full potential to make a difference. In the spirit of our Founding Fathers, and in an exercise of my own Personal Liberties, I have started a petition to require cell phone carriers to allow bootloader unlock on any Android device that is not under contract or subsidy. Many of you will know immediately what this means, and the exponential benefits of such a law. Many of you will flip to the next activity complacently believing this does not affect you. If you do not understand, I wish to enlighten you as to how this affects each and every Android user in the world. Signing the petition takes only a few moments of your time and adds to the greater good of our technology and innovation as a Nation.
So what exactly does this “Bootloader Unlock” thing mean?
Well, that is a great question. Most simply put, according to Motorla’s website, “bootloader is a little bit of code that tells your device's operating system how to boot up”. That does not mean much to the average user, I am sure. What it means in my own words is it is a piece of code that dictates what I can and cannot do, in terms of software modification, to my own personal Android device. On my wireless provider whom I will call Big Red, their requirement is that OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers, or simply phone makers) lock this bit of code to prevent modification by the end-user or customer. I am certain, to those that do not wish to modify their devices, this sounds like a good fail-safe to avoid breaking their devices. I am also certain that to those like myself, those who have the experience and knowledge to do things like flash custom firmware or software and modify our devices to suit our own personal taste and needs, this is a huge roadblock and an impediment on what we can do with our own personal property and how it can be improved. In order to modify system files as the user sees fit, a thing called Root is required. Root is, most simply privileged access to a phones file system. A locked bootloader means that in order to gain “Root” access, a security exploit must be found and exploited in order to modify system files. These exploits are literally holes that must be (and typically are) patched in software updates sent out by the service providers or manufacturers to protect the end-user. While the efforts of the security experts are always going to be required to keep us safe and updated, I personally do not want to rely on someone to hack the software so it can be modified. This should be an inherent ability of any user who does not have a subsidy or contract obligation. I also feel that any device that can be updated by the user allows the people who develop for Android to Innovate and push our technology farther forward. When manufacturers are required to lock down a device, ultimately, the user is the one who loses. My first Android device, the Droid 1 or A855 ran an under-volted overclocked kernel (simply another piece of code that tells a device how to boot and how to run its processor among other things) that ran 1.7ghz on it’s ~600mhz processor. I used that phone at least twice as long as I would have if it hadn’t been bootloader unlocked. Also, on the note of the OG Droid, I can say that this was the phone that helped Verizon to compete with the Iphone, bolstering the customer base and creating mass knowledge of the Andoid platform. This was done with a bootloader-unlocked device. It seems that once the market was realized, bootloader locking became the normative. The Droid line has been bootloader-locked ever since. There are several examples of the same hardware being sold, under different names, with the bootloader-unlockable right out of the box. The most recent example of this is the Motorola xt1250, or Moto Maxx (US CDMA). The international version of the same phone, the xt1225 is also bootloader-unlockable. All three are known as the Quark. They are identical in hardware aside from exteriors. Big Red required their version to have the bootloader locked. There is no way to have it unlocked for now.
So Why Would I Want to Sign This Petition?
Honestly, you may not care about Android at all. You could conceivably have never been interested, and care less. However, the technology available to you today is available because of innovations and advancements that have been made across a wide technological array of development. Android is no different. Love that Halo or Heads Up inspired feature ____ manufacturer just put on your new phone? People who develop are to be thanked. The possibilities are endless for what can be done and applied across many platforms. The future of mobile technology can be greatly advanced by creating open access for all who are inclined.
Catharsis
Okay, I admit it. It is really, really unlikely our politicians actually act upon this petition, even if 100,000 signatures are reached. As much as I like to think our law should “fix” things that are wrong, I can agree with one of my favorite developers from back in the day, @adrenalyne, when he said [government typically does not, and should not interfere with private business.] I can agree with that on the same grounds by which I feel we should be granted bootloader unlock on…if and only, if, no one’s rights are infringed upon. I feel it is all of our right to do what we please with our own personal property. There was a great analogy given on XDA Developers forum in the bounty thread where this all started by @Wynnded In essence, it said the carrier provides the highway, the OEM provides the device, but it is the carrier’s highway, so if the carrier requires the OEM to lock it down so be it. Personally, I feel that if the carrier has a highway, it is a toll-road, as I pay for my service. I purchase my vehicle outright, so if I want to modify it, and I pay for my vehicle, making no obligation to said toll operator, it is not within their range of rights to tell me I cannot modify my vehicle in the way I see fit. Thank you for your time. –kitcostantino @ medicbeard on twitter #unlockthedroids
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...e-not-subsized-or-attatched-contract/QfTmsspy
Original thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/dro...unlock-bootloader-root-turbo-t2927958/page115
Sources:
https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bootloader/unlock-your-device-a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooting_(Android_OS)
I ask for no donations, nor anything else. Simply share this if you feel so compelled. Really, it hurts nothing even if you don’t.
#unlockthedroids
Is it me or is xda latly dying bit by bit?
Its like devs moved on to a new forum or something
Or did rooting of phones harder?
Lately not many custom roms either
Wesley_NL said:
Is it me or is xda latly dying bit by bit? Its like devs moved on to a new forum or something. Or did rooting of phones harder? Lately not many custom roms either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not an Administrator, Moderator or any type of xda-developers Representative but, the xda-developers does value member feedback and the following thread was created to provide a place for such feedback.
[All XDA Members] Feedback/Recommendations for XDA by Fallen Spartan
I wish you the best of luck!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I Am The Egg Man,
They Are The Egg Men.
I Am The Walrus!
Coo Coo Cachoo!
I DO NOT PROVIDE SUPPORT VIA PM UNLESS ASKED/REQUESTED BY MYSELF.
PLEASE KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Wesley_NL said:
Is it me or is xda latly dying bit by bit?
Its like devs moved on to a new forum or something
Or did rooting of phones harder?
Lately not many custom roms either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are in an age where most of the developers live in areas where more and more devices have locked bootloaders and/or patched kernels that prevent most of the known methods from being useable on those devices. Some of these developers are on contracts with their mobile carrier which limits the new devices available to them as "free" upgrades from their carrier and most aren't going through the trouble of buying a device from another source to activate on their network. This limits the amount of development because they usually only develop for the devices they own.
Then you factor in that the various device communities here are growing which means we have more user/members complaining and demanding cool stuff for their devices and that leads to the developers being less likely to share their work just to avoid the hassle from whining members.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Droidriven said:
We are in an age where most of the developers live in areas where more and more devices have locked bootloaders and/or patched kernels that prevent most of the known methods from being useable on those devices. Some of these developers are on contracts with their mobile carrier which limits the new devices available to them as "free" upgrades from their carrier and most aren't going through the trouble of buying a device from another source to activate on their network. This limits the amount of development because they usually only develop for the devices they own.
Then you factor in that the various device communities here are growing which means we have more user/members complaining and demanding cool stuff for their devices and that leads to the developers being less likely to share their work just to avoid the hassle from whining members.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see well if i could dev i would,
even if ask allot,
but i try to help with knowledge i have,
i thought devs moved over to a new forum,
thats why i asked ,
because i keep an eye out what my next device will be since i want to stay rooted so i can do more with my device
A basic rom sucks specialy bloated once
Wesley_NL said:
I see well if i could dev i would,
even if ask allot,
but i try to help with knowledge i have,
i thought devs moved over to a new forum,
thats why i asked ,
because i keep an eye out what my next device will be since i want to stay rooted so i can do more with my device
A basic rom sucks specialy bloated once
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way about development lately. I was just explaining a couple of factors that have influenced the situation.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Droidriven said:
I feel the same way about development lately. I was just explaining a couple of factors that have influenced the situation.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, but i thought it was only samsung where develop was dead but now that i scrolled for my nect device i noticed it was fairly quiet on xda
Wesley_NL said:
I understand, but i thought it was only samsung where develop was dead but now that i scrolled for my nect device i noticed it was fairly quiet on xda
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...for some reason, Samsung and Verizon devices have, in the past, been where a large part of the development has been done. These are the ones that are mostly locked down, even the Verizon Pixel is locked when all the other Pixel devices aren't. Also, the newer android versions are getting more and more difficult to root. This is expected because the OEMs are constantly at work trying to find ways to prevent altering the devices, they don't consider us being the owners of the devices or software, we only pay for the privilege to "use" the devices and software.
There are plenty of other devices that are still supported and will be supported in the future
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Droidriven said:
Well...for some reason, Samsung and Verizon devices have, in the past, been where a large part of the development has been done. These are the ones that are mostly locked down, even the Verizon Pixel is locked when all the other Pixel devices aren't. Also, the newer android versions are getting more and more difficult to root. This is expected because the OEMs are constantly at work trying to find ways to prevent altering the devices, they don't consider us being the owners of the devices or software, we only pay for the privilege to "use" the devices and software.
There are plenty of other devices that are still supported and will be supported in the future
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I figured as much specialy at samsungs, someday we will be at ios locks , no bt sharing , no usb otg, headphone jack removed to prevent hack via that way,
Its just sad , we already pay so much for our devices so why not give people the freedom to root or not,
its not like everyone root, its just a small amount maby 10% since most use iphones anyway,
chinese device will most likely stay unlocked i hope ,
the once like one plus, xaomi mi, and so , tbh i like to have vanilla as much as possible not 90% bloat apps with same purpose like samsung have sucks, only drain batt and use space and recourses,
I was aiming for one plus 5 but still not what i wanted, samsung still is closest except it's rom, i like to stay led screen as one of my personal features since i watch alot anime on the go, adaway/adblock is my main consern i hate those adds in apps and those popup adds, further a good touchwiz like the 6x6 with settings , although it don't work for me anymore so swapped to nova but nova is not realy like i want it to be , it was nice in the s3 times, sound mods that dont hurt my ears like dolby atmos and viper4android also one of the things i want to keep using , and root is a good thing to have specialy for account swap and reroll in games,
Tbh i liked nokia n900 with maemo/meego and its stereo build in speakers for when i don't wan't to use headphones, and its lovely psychal keyboard
Samsung is good for its nice devices and nearly bezzeless screen , if compare to a sony Atleast
Wesley_NL said:
I figured as much specialy at samsungs, someday we will be at ios locks , no bt sharing , no usb otg, headphone jack removed to prevent hack via that way,
Its just sad , we already pay so much for our devices so why not give people the freedom to root or not,
its not like everyone root, its just a small amount maby 10% since most use iphones anyway,
chinese device will most likely stay unlocked i hope ,
the once like one plus, xaomi mi, and so , tbh i like to have vanilla as much as possible not 90% bloat apps with same purpose like samsung have sucks, only drain batt and use space and recourses,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is all opinion based. But reasonable opinions.
The Devs here at XDA arnt disappearing or doing any less developing for the majority. Instead the number of devices and different variants of those devices are growing so rapidly, that it lessens the probability of you obtaining a device that a Dev feels passionate about, and puts time into developing.
Also, technology advances rapidly. A mod that changes your status bar can quickly be abandoned due to capability issues in the next android version.
Dev's dont recieve a lot of monetary gain, or proper thanks or appreciation for doing what they do. Android is a very complex machine. Multiple layers, multiple languages, and unique in that design. Very complex, with scripts that have calls for this, and calls for that, which has to be constructed correctly to pull from any section, under any circumstance.
New android releases have ability to duplicate and sometimes enhance, with the combination of a launcher, those features of a custom rom. Which causes less people to have reason to need or want a custom rom.
The cell phone companies would probably love to give customers the freedom of unlocking boot loaders and rooting phones with ease. Think about it. Samsung has a year warranty on cell phones.. you root and you have now voided that warranty. They no longer fix your device for free. Also, if they helped you easily achieve root on your device then they gave you, the customer, what you wanted, without risk of being responsible and in the same token, made you a happy customer. Its the carrier companies you should be angry with. They are the ones who puts money into Samsungs pockets. I mean have you ever purchased a device directly from Samsung? Or did you obtain it through a carrier company? Almost all individuals originally get cell phones from carrier companies. That being said - if verizon puts a clause into the contract that promises Samsung they will buy so many devices for so many years, only if they will increase security and difficulty of getting super user access, which will decrease the chances of a average customer removing that device from Verizons carrier lock. Samsung isnt going to decline a major carrier. Its not only verizon. Its most carriers. How do you think they profit from selling a 200$ phone for 20$?
Now heres the good things happening in the cell phone world..
Its now mandated that all US carriers provide free unlocking, from the network carrier lock, on all GSM devices sold after a certain date. Granted you meet all the stipulations they require. So now greater freedom of phones, or at least a law, made by the US government helping customers fight big companies. When we all know, its not too often that happens.
Anyone can root any device. As long as you know the languages android is designed in. Its all open sourced. You can compile and build an exact replica of your phone, except a few parts. The problem is in the difficulty of doing that. The complexity slows progression of released one click roots, or flashable roots.. those were programmed by people or teams who put in hard work to simplify the process to increase the chances of average people to successfully root.. those people are the Devs your talking about vanishing..
Another big thing ive heard about. The new android 8.0 Oreo has made the process of building custom roms, more simplified. Basically making the construction of one phone, be the same construction of multiple devices and variants, making roms free from being device specific. Increasing the probability of you owning a device with the same build as a Dev thats releasing a rom. Reversing what i said at the start of this reply. This would also cut down on the need to port, and decrease rom bugs like audio and wifi or volte. Thats what my understanding of it is. If im incorrect about this please someone explain it better, in lamans terms..
All in all, I agree with your statement that less and less rom development is happening. But, I feel like that is about to change directions. Not headed back to the way it was, but a new path.. and im ready for it..
And try apex launcher. Gives you ability to hide apps even in the free version unlike nova.. pretty sleek and fast.. alot of customization.. that along with a pie app,which gives you almost like a "apps edge" feel.. i also heard about a way to change your quick tiles in newer android versions.. the only thing about that is, im not sure if they were talking about just changing the main tiles at the top or changing them altogether.. i hope altogether.. i never use smart view, or power saver.. instead id like to have pandora, xda labs, etc
juzten said:
This is all opinion based. But reasonable opinions.
The Devs here at XDA arnt disappearing or doing any less developing for the majority. Instead the number of devices and different variants of those devices are growing so rapidly, that it lessens the probability of you obtaining a device that a Dev feels passionate about, and puts time into developing.
Also, technology advances rapidly. A mod that changes your status bar can quickly be abandoned due to capability issues in the next android version.
Dev's dont recieve a lot of monetary gain, or proper thanks or appreciation for doing what they do. Android is a very complex machine. Multiple layers, multiple languages, and unique in that design. Very complex, with scripts that have calls for this, and calls for that, which has to be constructed correctly to pull from any section, under any circumstance.
New android releases have ability to duplicate and sometimes enhance, with the combination of a launcher, those features of a custom rom. Which causes less people to have reason to need or want a custom rom.
The cell phone companies would probably love to give customers the freedom of unlocking boot loaders and rooting phones with ease. Think about it. Samsung has a year warranty on cell phones.. you root and you have now voided that warranty. They no longer fix your device for free. Also, if they helped you easily achieve root on your device then they gave you, the customer, what you wanted, without risk of being responsible and in the same token, made you a happy customer. Its the carrier companies you should be angry with. They are the ones who puts money into Samsungs pockets. I mean have you ever purchased a device directly from Samsung? Or did you obtain it through a carrier company? Almost all individuals originally get cell phones from carrier companies. That being said - if verizon puts a clause into the contract that promises Samsung they will buy so many devices for so many years, only if they will increase security and difficulty of getting super user access, which will decrease the chances of a average customer removing that device from Verizons carrier lock. Samsung isnt going to decline a major carrier. Its not only verizon. Its most carriers. How do you think they profit from selling a 200$ phone for 20$?
Now heres the good things happening in the cell phone world..
Its now mandated that all US carriers provide free unlocking, from the network carrier lock, on all GSM devices sold after a certain date. Granted you meet all the stipulations they require. So now greater freedom of phones, or at least a law, made by the US government helping customers fight big companies. When we all know, its not too often that happens.
Anyone can root any device. As long as you know the languages android is designed in. Its all open sourced. You can compile and build an exact replica of your phone, except a few parts. The problem is in the difficulty of doing that. The complexity slows progression of released one click roots, or flashable roots.. those were programmed by people or teams who put in hard work to simplify the process to increase the chances of average people to successfully root.. those people are the Devs your talking about vanishing..
Another big thing ive heard about. The new android 8.0 Oreo has made the process of building custom roms, more simplified. Basically making the construction of one phone, be the same construction of multiple devices and variants, making roms free from being device specific. Increasing the probability of you owning a device with the same build as a Dev thats releasing a rom. Reversing what i said at the start of this reply. This would also cut down on the need to port, and decrease rom bugs like audio and wifi or volte. Thats what my understanding of it is. If im incorrect about this please someone explain it better, in lamans terms..
All in all, I agree with your statement that less and less rom development is happening. But, I feel like that is about to change directions. Not headed back to the way it was, but a new path.. and im ready for it..
And try apex launcher. Gives you ability to hide apps even in the free version unlike nova.. pretty sleek and fast.. alot of customization.. that along with a pie app,which gives you almost like a "apps edge" feel.. i also heard about a way to change your quick tiles in newer android versions.. the only thing about that is, im not sure if they were talking about just changing the main tiles at the top or changing them altogether.. i hope altogether.. i never use smart view, or power saver.. instead id like to have pandora, xda labs, etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the netherland samsung is 2 year waranty even if you root it, i asked samsung care when i fixed the camera, tbh i like the 6x6 mod with settings, i agree nova sucks lately , but i use nova sinxe s3 time when archidroid putted it in the rom and i have pro of nova , well im also ready to see what oreo is like , tbh i like custom roms as i told even if im not making big use of it but i want to stay custom + root for certain apps, also i am gonna see what real chinese brands gonna do with their devices i dont want to waste 1300 euro on a iphone or note8, unlike 99% of idiotic people that only get a device to show off and only to whatsapp and snapchat , also what is the next thing iphones is gonna steal? Nokias charl zies camera? , and that for a lowlife chinese product while a real chinese android is 10x beter,
But realy i look for a divice with atleast
Led screen arround 5.5"+
Nice smooth rom
Not a pre but srereo buildin speakers for if i don't want to wear a headphone
A micro sd card reader
No big bars like a sony more like s8 or mii mix
Good headphone amp
I think that kind im looking for,