Aloha all, Having trouble knowing how to ask this...bear with me.
I am having problems with the menus that are triggered by the 'hover' action of a mouse. Using the surface pro or even my lumia 920 I am frequently unable to operate many menus on sites.
officefootballpools.com tournamentpools.com and a host of other sites have the same type menus.
Normal action would be with a mouse and when you hover it drops down a menu that you click your selection. Its isn't a normal drop down but a .li. html type for the menu.
Im sure this has been discussed but I was looking for some vocabulary so I can search the right threads.
You cant interact with hover images via capacitative touch. The browser has no way to tell if you want to click or just show the drop down, it assumes click. Some sites (with limited success) I have managed to press and hold on a link to show its drop down, then if you ignore the usual right click popup then you can sometimes hit the correct icon, this is on a lumia 710.
Otherwise if you have a device with an active stylus (the surface pro for example) you can get rollover easily. If you notice when you hold the pen a tiny bit off of the screen you get a little dot appearing on the screen where the pen is pointing without any physical contact. This dot can trigger rollover events as in this case windows knows that you are not touching the screen, touch becomes a click, hovering the pen over the screen becomes mouse movement which is enough to trigger rollover.
Thank you for your reply. I understand and assumed the same. I have been working with an x61t for a few years so the jump to capacitive has thrown me a bit.
Okay, so what are web developers doing instead of this type of drop down? I recently read an article that says a lot of developers are moving to the new msn.com type format with nav bars on left or right with no hover...
Anyway thanks again. The volume of sites with this issue is pretty large. Yahoo.com/fantasy chokes a donkey, etc.
Side question, does Win8 have the on screen mouse that I used to have on my Lenovo? Or is that a Lenovo product probably?
Alot of web developers are doing nothing at all. In some cases clicking the link that causes the dropdown redirects to a page listing the other links in that dropdown, that's always handy. Usually most devs create mobile versions of sites which are normally touch friendly. I have seen 1 or 2 sites create iPhone versions before, these worked nicely on android so I would assume they are fine on the lumia and maybe the surface.
I haven't ever seen an on screen mouse before but if there is not one in windows 8 then there may be a 3rd party one somewhere. I am on my phone right now, otherwise I would have looked myself.
One advantage of using "Mobile" websites is that they should be designed with the limitation of touchscreens - specifically, the inability to track hover - in mind. That may help you out.
Alternatively, the Surface Pro uses an active Wacom digitizer (as well as a touchscreen) that can sense the pen at a distance. You can use the stylus pretty much perfectly as a mouse, with hover and right-click and everything.
Related
Something along these lines may have already been created, but I havent been able to find it. Shell software, and touch flo is all very good for using our phones without a stylus, but we all know that at some point we are going to have to use a piece of wm software, and out the stylus comes.
What I am proposing is a virtual mouse cursor. I came across Innovisoft Virtuamouse, which is controled by the d-pad, but why not have a cursor about 50*50 pixels, which can be moved by finger.
In my paint mockup picture, the red circle would be where you touch to drag the cursor, and the tip is the active point where the stylus would tap. It would be moved by dragging, and a stylus tap would be signified by removing and replacing the finger within 200ms, like a laptop touchpad.
This cursor would probably be turned on and off by a hardware button.
Unfortunately I am not a developer, so this would have to be a project for someone else, but I'm sure people would be willing to contribute.
Since the Diamond having multi-touch seems to be comfirmed (link below), I would bet that one of the first things we see from deevelopers is just this idea. Using the touch-sensitive part of the area around the action button as a trackpad and clicking with a button press.
Diamond multi-touch vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Owgcos_KY&feature=related
Seems like a good idea, but I do have to question this a bit. You want to use a touch controlled mouse to tap a button? It seems like a bit more work to do. Also, your picture is a smartphone....
The idea is to use the mouse to press the odd, fiddely button, not for constant use.
As for that being a smartphone screen, that was an overlook on my part - I just grabbed the first screen capture off google images.
I think it would be useful for web browsing.
Surur
This guy made it on a nokia...
http://30dbs.blogspot.com/2009/03/experimental-multi-touch-on-nokia-5800.html
i dont think this is real multitouch- just seems to remember the first pressed location and notices when pressure is gone
its not really multitouch.
i worked on a simular project (not a game, just tried to do something like virtual multitouch)
and its just like that.
example:
you press on the left and on the right side of our screen, wm thinks you were pressing just in the middle of both sides.
like this (X is your finger, O is the position where windows mobil thinks where your finger really is)
X-----O-----X
or
X----------
-----O-----
----------X
so i think this guy just made "invisible buttons" which you click when you press und 2 of his buttons at the same time.
of course this is just speculation because i cant test it, but that would be the easiest way.
Yep I think it's how it works... But it's not a dumb idea at all, and could be used in the dev of apps
freaksey said:
you press und the left and on the right side of our screen, wm thinks you were pressing just in the middle of both sides.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you.
This "trick" can simulate a multitouch but only with single clicks. I'm afraid that you can't simulate gestures such as the "iPhone-like" zoom.
Marshall
lpaso said:
Yep I think it's how it works... But it's not a dumb idea at all, and could be used in the dev of apps
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I realize it isn’t "real" multitouch to, but I also think this could be useful for a lot of cool apps on WM.
I was making some experiments and I noticed that it is really hard, if not impossible, to make it work with 3 simultaneous pressures.
Like freaksey said, pressing in 2 different points of the screen will make the OS think we are pressing in a point in the middle. But introducing a third point will not be detected if the point is in the same line.
Here is what I mean:
X----X----X (3 points)
X---------X (2 points)
X----O----X (What the OS thinks in both situations)
So I'm afraid that we can't make applications like "piano".
Marshall
Marshall07 said:
I was making some experiments and I noticed that it is really hard, if not impossible, to make it work with 3 simultaneous pressures.
Like freaksey said, pressing in 2 different points of the screen will make the OS think we are pressing in a point in the middle. But introducing a third point will not be detected if the point is in the same line.
Here is what I mean:
X----X----X (3 points)
X---------X (2 points)
X----O----X (What the OS thinks in both situations)
So I'm afraid that we can't make applications like "piano".
Marshall
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, not like a piano, but for tiny games (like the nokia guy made) it could be fun
lpaso said:
Indeed, not like a piano, but for tiny games (like the nokia guy made) it could be fun
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course
Marshall
I reckon u could simulate multitouch for zooming. And here is how i suggest to do it (im not a programmer, so someone come use it (Y)!)
When using a transitional touch screen, a user either presses a button and then releases it (taps it), and then taps another, or drags a stylus across the screen. When a user taps, there is a space of a few milliseconds of no input between the taps, so is recognisable.
When a user drags a stylus, the change in location is continuous (i.e. the point of contact moves to an adjacent sensor), so is recognisable.
If a user were to touch 2 points, the point of contact would appear to move straight to another point (not adjacent) immediately. This would then be recognisable as 2 points of contact, rather than just 2 taps.
This would allow 2 fingered gestures, even if the system wouldn't know the exact location of the 2 points of contact.
try this... here can you see where your phone thinks your finger is.
(to go into "singlepoint mode" draw at least 1 point on your screen and then you can change into it)
just copy to phone and run it
I am not a hardware engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel this is more of a software limitation than anything else.
The fact that windows mobile can take two points of pressure and use the middle of the area as the true touch point, tells me that the hardware is understanding both touch points.
I believe the issue lies in Windows for not understanding two inputs at the same time. This is the same case with Windows PC's, as multi-touch is not possible on Vista or XP, but instead is being developed specifically for Window 7. Same thing with Windows Mobile, multi-touch is being developed (on a software level) only with WM 7.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Android powered HTC phone has similar touch screen hardware as most current HTC devices, but a developer was able to (with some changes to the OS) allow for true multi touch recognition.
You are right, viridescent_zeal.
But I already tried what you are saying and if you press 2 point "at the same time" the hardware will immediatly get the point in the middle. It will not move immediatly but it will immediatly result as the point in the middle.
I'm afraid that it is an hardware limitation. If you want to realize the behaviour you are talking about, you have to press the two points with a little delay. This will cause the immediate movement and you can make a software believe you have touched two points in the screen.
Marshall
iservealot said:
I am not a hardware engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel this is more of a software limitation than anything else.
The fact that windows mobile can take two points of pressure and use the middle of the area as the true touch point, tells me that the hardware is understanding both touch points.
I believe the issue lies in Windows for not understanding two inputs at the same time. This is the same case with Windows PC's, as multi-touch is not possible on Vista or XP, but instead is being developed specifically for Window 7. Same thing with Windows Mobile, multi-touch is being developed (on a software level) only with WM 7.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Android powered HTC phone has similar touch screen hardware as most current HTC devices, but a developer was able to (with some changes to the OS) allow for true multi touch recognition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't a software limitation. This is just how resistive digitisers work.
here's two artciles from the last 24 hours showing multitouch in action:
http://www.fuzemobility.com/multitouch-exists-now-without-new-hardware-or-software/
http://www.fuzemobility.com/multitouch-in-action/
it can be implemented for games in a butchered form...it's not real multitouch but virtual key presses can work for games.
Very true. Still, be able to do that is better than nothing- if done right it could simulate multi-touch gestures providing we put 1 finger down first!
**Integrating an eye tracker into the hardware**
“The Eye Tribe released its first eye-tracking product to developers in December -- a long, thin $99 module that attaches to a Windows laptop, computer or tablet. It sold out immediately and the company is now working on a second batch. But it also has a more exciting proposition in the pipeline -- a software development kit module for Android phones that it eventually wants to see integrated into the a wide range of mobile devices.
“Most of the requisite hardware is already built into phones. The Eye Tribe just needs to persuade companies to integrate the technology.
All that's required is a camera sensor with infrared capabilities. "What we know is that in Q4 this year, sensors are coming out that can switch between regular camera and infrared camera."”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wired/co/uk/news/archive/2014-02/25/eye-tribe-android
**Cost**
“OEM vendors could likely add this sensor to their handsets for just five dollars”
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reviewscnet/eye-tribe-shows-off-working-eye-tracking-on-a-mobile-phone/
If modifying the device to add eye-tracking only adds 5 dollars to the manufacturing cost, then I’m sure that at least one of the smartphone, tablet, notebook, and laptop manufacturers will make the supposedly easy camera modification.
**See before touch**
I think that most of the time, a person will see a widget that they want to touch before they actually reach out, and physically touch it
(The only times where I’m not looking is when I press the Android Navigation Bar buttons that are near the bottom edge of the screen. Although, on a larger Nexus 10, I usually have to look at them first).
**Eyes + consecutively touching the same few buttons**
On certain tasks, it might be convenient and fast to have the option of touching “single tap where I’m looking”, and “swipe up where I’m looking” buttons. You would only need one or two buttons that are close to you (kind of like the Navigation Bar buttons at the bottom).
Look, touch an easy-to-reach spot, look, and then touch the same button again. You don’t have to keep changing your hand and finger positions between each tap.
“Looking at icons on a desktop instantly highlights them, and you can then tap anywhere on the screen to open up the selected app.”
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Click to collapse
stuff/tv/mwc-2014/eyes-eye-tribe-we-play-fruit-ninja-using-nothing-our-eyeballs/feature
I guess that in one of their demos, they temporarily made the entire screen a “tap where I’m looking” button.
Besides the three default buttons in the Navigation Bar, you could add “single tap where I’m looking”, and “swipe up where I’m looking” (to perhaps simulate a Page Down for reading) buttons, and those alone should allow you to do a lot of things).
Vertical touchscreen
If you have a vertically propped up tablet with an external keyboard, you could remap a keyboard button to be the “tap where I’m looking” button.
**Hands-free interaction**
Even without the above options, I still think the ability to have a page automatically scroll down when your eyes reach the bottom of the page, or have an e-book automatically turn the page when the gaze reaches the corner of the text would be pretty good features to have. They would be especially handy for computer interaction while cooking and eating, and interacting with a vertically set up touch device, or laptop that is more than an arms-length away while you do other stuff on the desktop.
(**Google eye tracking patents**
Notably, Google has an eye tracking patent that involves recording advertisement impressions through eye focus with pay-per-gaze, and another patent that demonstrates a method to unlock a device by having a sensor in a head-mounted accessory (probably something like Google Glass) track the patterns of the pupil.
It indicates that eye tracking could have even more backing in the near future).
Have been running into these issues on a consistent basis. I'm not sure if they are hardware issues or software issues. Haven't seen them described before.
1. Using the Type Pro 2 keyboard, suddenly and without pressing the CAPS key, I am typing in all caps. Can't even use Shift to change to lower case. CAPS key is not not lit, but that's all that will type. Sometimes I can stop this by removing the keyboard, letting it "rest" a few minutes and plugging it back in. Sometimes I have to completely reboot.
2. Without any warning, selecting one desktop or folder object to open instead selects multiple objects and opens them. Once this starts, I definitely have to reboot to make it stop. Haven't been able to come up with a reason. At first, I thought it might be my HP Bluetooth mouse, but it has also happened with a Microsoft wireless mouse and a Logitech wireless mouse. Have also tried to use the pen, but that isn't really good for selecting a file to open. Files can be jpgs, documents, even videos. Desktop objects can be almost anything, resulting in multiple opened programs as well as multiple windows, etc.
I have Geek Squad coverage and there is a Microsoft store about 40 miles away in Delaware. Figured I'd check here first before trying those options. Not sure if a refresh would solve these or not and since there's a major effort in reinstalling programs, was a bit hesitant.
Thanks in advance for any constructive advice.
Hello,
I've recently bought a Lenovo P11 tablet to take notes. When drawing with a pen, however, I have this problem (and I have verified it by enabling touch detector in developer options): when I lay the pen/finger on the screen, there is an area (I would say 2-3 cm) where the cursor doesn't move even if I move the pen. When I exit that area, a line gets drawn between where I started and where I arrived, but this is wrong as I may have drawn curves in the middle of the two.
This leads to two things:
* When I want to draw something rounded (like a "2"), the upper part gets drawn as a line unless I draw it very big.
* When I want to draw something small, only a dot gets drawn because I didn't leave the "area" and therefore didn't trigger the cursor.
Now I am pretty sure this is a software problem, as if it were a problem with the screen this wouldn't happen only at the start of the line.
Also, I'm sure this is not because of the application I'm using (OneNote), as I've tested with the developer options to show the cursor and in any place in the OS, when I start drawing, the cursor is stuck at where I've begun.
Anyone can help?
Thanks.
Nexgan said:
Hello,
I've recently bought a Lenovo P11 tablet to take notes. When drawing with a pen, however, I have this problem (and I have verified it by enabling touch detector in developer options): when I lay the pen/finger on the screen, there is an area (I would say 2-3 cm) where the cursor doesn't move even if I move the pen. When I exit that area, a line gets drawn between where I started and where I arrived, but this is wrong as I may have drawn curves in the middle of the two.
This leads to two things:
* When I want to draw something rounded (like a "2"), the upper part gets drawn as a line unless I draw it very big.
* When I want to draw something small, only a dot gets drawn because I didn't leave the "area" and therefore didn't trigger the cursor.
Now I am pretty sure this is a software problem, as if it were a problem with the screen this wouldn't happen only at the start of the line.
Also, I'm sure this is not because of the application I'm using (OneNote), as I've tested with the developer options to show the cursor and in any place in the OS, when I start drawing, the cursor is stuck at where I've begun.
Anyone can help?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
was it a solution?