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Raphael Issues List:

Right, I can't see an Issues list for this device yet so I'll start one:
1. A couple of times now, I've left my phone to charge overnight and woke up to an unresponsive device. Power button does nothing, screen is off and only way to get it device back up and running is to poke the soft-reset button OR remove and reinsert the battery.
2. Unresponsive buttons: every now and then the "right" button of the D-Pad does nothing, then suddenly it will start working again, same with the "Back" button though much more infrequent/noticable than the D-Pad issue I've experienced.

I did not expierence the first problem with the charging issue.
To close and app you can use the (arrow pointing left) key but sometimes i have to push it like 3 or 4 times before it respond.
Same with the touchscreen but i fixed that by increasing the touchpad sensitivity with a regedit.

My device has reset a few times while I been reading email or texts.
John

Guys. The whole phone besides the keyboard is touch sensitive. So the whole front keys and touchscreen. Increase sensitivity and it should work fine.

Kraize92 said:
Guys. The whole phone besides the keyboard is touch sensitive. So the whole front keys and touchscreen. Increase sensitivity and it should work fine.
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Click to collapse
Erm, I'm sorry but that's not right is it. The D-Pad, Send, End, Home and Back buttons are actual buttons as opposed to touch sensitive.
The zoom wheel is obviously a "touch" area too. The issue I am descriping seems to suggest that the switches might be a bit flakey rather than anything else.

no he is right all the buttons are PRESSURE (he said touch) sensitive..when they unvieled the diamond the ceo of htc demonstrated that the keys are pressure sensitie and even the cameria button can SENSE when your finger is approaching to ready the zoom ..here is the youtube vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTd3SUPSJsMit

pazookie said:
no he is right all the buttons are PRESSURE (he said touch) sensitive..when they unvieled the diamond the ceo of htc demonstrated that the keys are pressure sensitie and even the cameria button can SENSE when your finger is approaching to ready the zoom ..here is the youtube vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTd3SUPSJsMit
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry my bad. WM phones used to be called touch sensitve but in reality they're pressure sensitive. The only touch sensitive phones out currently are the iPhones and the Omni I would say.
Syphon Filter said:
Erm, I'm sorry but that's not right is it. The D-Pad, Send, End, Home and Back buttons are actual buttons as opposed to touch sensitive.
The zoom wheel is obviously a "touch" area too. The issue I am descriping seems to suggest that the switches might be a bit flakey rather than anything else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the were actual buttons they would be capable of being pushed in which it's not possible to do

Issues:
HTC task man doesnt work properly.
Poor reception
Too many startup apps/services put on by htc to provide touch interface (which i hate)
why on eart you use operaloder on phones stratup just to get 2-3 more seconds fast load time for opera.
i think htc just over done this touch crap.
could anoyone access setupfiles on rom so i can use plain wm6.1

Kraize92 said:
If the were actual buttons they would be capable of being pushed in which it's not possible to do
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Click to collapse
Hang on, you clearly don't own either Touch Pro or a Diamond, the D-Pad, Call, End, Home and Back buttons CAN BE PUSHED IN. They are actual buttons.

Syphon Filter said:
Hang on, you clearly don't own either Touch Pro or a Diamond, the D-Pad, Call, End, Home and Back buttons CAN BE PUSHED IN. They are actual buttons.
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Click to collapse
No. I'm sure of it. I have demoed both a touch pro and a diamond. I meant that they CANNOT be pushed in as you can on the kaiser. I know this for a fact and on every video you will see that it is mentioned as a pressure sensitive all around except for the keyboard. I'm sure of that. They are not real buttons. I guess you could push it in if it's just a piece of glass and paper underneath the actual pressure sensitive touchpad, but it wouldn't make it real buttons. I know what I'm talking about Unless HTC suddenly decided to make them real buttons which would kill their profits so I'm assuming that they wouldn't do that either. I demoed it about 2-3 weeks ago.

Syphon Filter said:
Right, I can't see an Issues list for this device yet so I'll start one:
1. A couple of times now, I've left my phone to charge overnight and woke up to an unresponsive device. Power button does nothing, screen is off and only way to get it device back up and running is to poke the soft-reset button OR remove and reinsert the battery.
2. Unresponsive buttons: every now and then the "right" button of the D-Pad does nothing, then suddenly it will start working again, same with the "Back" button though much more infrequent/noticable than the D-Pad issue I've experienced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 - Not had that problem - hopefully that'll go after your next hard reset or ROM update - these damn things always have, and always will behave differently for different people, it seems!
2 - My Back button missed my press once or twice, but I think it's more of a hardware issue than a software issue though (or possibly user error!). I'll tell you now though, hitting the "Right" button on my Diamond was next to impossible. It was extremely stiff, and would eventually register as a press on the "Hang Up" button. Drove me absolutely mental! But I think I was the only Diamond user who had that problem, and my Raphael is fine.

having got one in my hand - they are tactile push bottons - i.e you push them until it clicks before an action happens.

ardsar said:
having got one in my hand - they are tactile push bottons - i.e you push them until it clicks before an action happens.
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Click to collapse
Then I must be crazy. Since all I have to do is touch the button and a action happens. But my pressure threshold is very high.

Kraize92 said:
No. I'm sure of it. I have demoed both a touch pro and a diamond. I meant that they CANNOT be pushed in as you can on the kaiser. I know this for a fact and on every video you will see that it is mentioned as a pressure sensitive all around except for the keyboard. I'm sure of that. They are not real buttons. I guess you could push it in if it's just a piece of glass and paper underneath the actual pressure sensitive touchpad, but it wouldn't make it real buttons. I know what I'm talking about Unless HTC suddenly decided to make them real buttons which would kill their profits so I'm assuming that they wouldn't do that either. I demoed it about 2-3 weeks ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to get into an argument over this but the 9 buttons (Home, Back, Call, End, Up, Down, Left, Right and the centre of the D-Pad) on the face of the Diamond and the Touch Pro are buttons which have a tactile feedback, a press will not register until you "feel" the button pressed. The only thing in that area that is a "touch sensitive" thing is the zoom wheel.
Just because the area looks flush does not mean they are not buttons. There's a single piece of material that covers that area but I can assure you there are individual switches under there that provide a tactile feedback. You HAVE to feel that feedback for the button to do anything, simply touching it will have no effect unless you are using the zoom wheel functionality.
If you believe anything else you are wrong.

Kraize92 said:
Then I must be crazy. Since all I have to do is touch the button and a action happens. But my pressure threshold is very high.
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Click to collapse
1. What do you mean "my pressure threshold is very high"? Are you talking about the registry settings?
2. I thought you didnt have a Touch Pro or Diamond?

I said I didn't own one. Doesn't mean I don't have one in hand right now I have family members and friends that work for HTC america and AT&T.
Yeah. Registry settings/Advance Config for diamond

Kraize92 said:
I said I didn't own one. Doesn't mean I don't have one in hand right now I have family members and friends that work for HTC america and AT&T.
Yeah. Registry settings/Advance Config for diamond
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Ok.
Anyway, so you're saying that device you have in your hand right now has no tactile feedback on the front face buttons?
If have insiders at HTC why did you ask for donations so you could get a Touch Pro in the other thread?

Syphon Filter said:
Yes. Ok.
Anyway, so you're saying that device you have in your hand right now has no tactile feedback on the front face buttons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDIT: Okay. Maybe I'm mistaken. It's only the d-pad that's pressure sensitive. The buttons are tactile even though they feel as if they are pressure sensitive because I don't push into it like I did with the front face buttons on my kaiser.

ah, you've seen the light. The button DOES push in but the panel is one solid "sheet" that covers all the buttons.
The "wheel" is the only touch sensitive bit. The 5 navigation functions of the d-pad (up down left right select) are all tactile buttons that work off little switches.

Syphon Filter said:
ah, you've seen the light. The button DOES push in but the panel is one solid "sheet" that covers all the buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually. I should show you the light I'm right.
[Link]
Click number 3 and read this caption: "Swipe your finger across the screen to scroll through contracts, zoom, and pan web pages, browse your music library, and more, or press the touch-sensitive buttons to navigate and control your phone."
So concluding to that original fact that I was indeed right

Fuze: adjust 4-way rocker sensitivity (going "back" constantly)?

New Fuze user and new user to WM in general. I like the device, but it's been a bit overwhelming trying to get things together and tweaking it.
My biggest gripe right now is the sensitivity of the 4 way directional pad. Up and down work pretty well, but left and right are tricky to hit and I usually wind up going home, canceling, or going back. It's quite frustrating and I'd much rather use the directional pad than peck on the touchscreen in many situations.
I'm a bit befuddled: is navigation via the directional pad touch sensitive or is it a physical button? Is there anyway to adjust the sensitivities or sensor zones/regions so as not to accidentally hit one of other hardware buttons?
Thanks.

Got the same issue. The up / down navigation works fine, but left and right is just horrible. It would almost be better if you could use the touch sensitive part, rather than having to press the buttons fully down.

yup its a problem on all i think

lbhocky19 said:
yup its a problem on all i think
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Click to collapse
Wow, how did this get pass R&D and QA? The lack of responsive and accurate left/right keys is abysmal (makes me unable to use Calendar). I sure hope there will be some remedy ....

Yeah, I agree, the d-pad is sorely lacking. It seems to be getting a little easier as I get accustomed to it, but the d-pad from my 8525 was much better.

I agree 100%. And like vexingv said, this is particularly annoying in the calendar application. The D pad on my 8525 was far easier to use.

And all this time i thought i just kept messing up. I have the same problem also.

calendar is where the problem really does shine

This is the WORST part about this new phone redesign. It's almost as if MARKETING came up with this idea than actual engineers.
I wonder if we can just cut the surface so we get the d-pad left-right back and so it's not shared with other buttons.
Thanks a lot HTC! You now have THREE buttons that do the same thing instead of 2 last time on the Kaiser:
Home goes back to Home
Back (formerly OK), goes back to home anyways
Hangup goes back to Home anyways already!
So hitting left or right you have 66% of it going straight back to HOME.
Then, you take away the scroll-wheel capability and replace it with rocker buttons for volume that only do that and nothing else.
Genius by HTC.

NuShrike said:
This is the WORST part about this new phone redesign. It's almost as if MARKETING came up with this idea than actual engineers.
I wonder if we can just cut the surface so we get the d-pad left-right back and so it's not shared with other buttons.
Thanks a lot HTC! You now have THREE buttons that do the same thing instead of 2 last time on the Kaiser:
Home goes back to Home
Back (formerly OK), goes back to home anyways
Hangup goes back to Home anyways already!
So hitting left or right you have 66% of it going straight back to HOME.
Then, you take away the scroll-wheel capability and replace it with rocker buttons for volume that only do that and nothing else.
Genius by HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the scroll wheel does work, but its ability is to zoom/decrease the text size, which for most intents and purposes is a waste.
For clarification, is the directional rocker currently touch-sensitive or is there a physical button that is being depressed (albeit poorly).
If this keeps up, how about mapping some of the other 4 hardware buttons to provide some L/R functionality?

Okay guys. Here is the weird crazy part. I had the same problem, I just flashed the original stock att rom back (Well, tried to freeze in the middle to return ) but I had the att rom on it, I tried to re-install via the microSD card, and after it went through all the customization, I was so suprised that the left and right were working, it blew me away. I was like, "wdf? Is this the same phone." I have no idea what happened, but they seem more responsive. No tricks. At first I thought it was just me, but I started to use it more and more and it was working much better than before. No idea what fixed it, but I'm a happy camper

Here's some pictures of a guy who dropped it. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2904011&postcount=1
Looks like distinct buttons. We just need to keep the face plate from sharing the presses.

Stock rom here... Moving 'left' seems to work okay but 'right' either hits Call End or Back. And here I thought I was doing something wrong.

NuShrike said:
Here's some pictures of a guy who dropped it. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2904011&postcount=1
Looks like distinct buttons. We just need to keep the face plate from sharing the presses.
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Click to collapse
Seriously! Whose idea was it to make all those buttons into 1 face plate! stupid idiot designer. At least they could've separated the d-pad somehow, maybe a very precise circle.

Yeah with the new excitement with touch interfaces, HTC seemed to have left their minds/brains elsewhere. But judging from the pictures in the linked thread above, it seems like none of the 4 directions have physical buttons.

Count me in on this problem...
For the Calendar I just open the keyboard and use that D-pad on the bottom right.
SOLUTIONS...
I propose someone should create software to do 1 of 2 things:
1) Use the G-sensor to control scrolling. This function would be activated by touching, not pressing/clicking, the center of D-pad. Similar to how you focus the camera. This action would activate the software thus allowing scrolling in all 4 directions by tilting the device.
2) Change the input so we only have to Touch the D-pad (like how we zoom in on pictures/Opera) to move in the desired direction.
So who's up to the challenge of developing some software to make this happen? I will gladly donate $$$ as the D-pad is the ONLY thing I dislike about the Fuze/Touch Pro.

it took me 10 days to realize how to left and right buttons work (sprint).

Hmm...maybe the designers/engineers meant for BOTH hardware buttons on either side to be depressed nearly simultaneously in order to register navigation to either the left or right?
Eg.: Placing the tip of my right thumb parallel with the end the bottom of the phone between the two hardware buttons (farther away from the D-pad than one normally would) such that both buttons depressed, I was able to get much better accuracy navigating to the right. Can get the same response on the left side, but it's not as feasible due to the awkward positioning of the hands/fingers.

I got tired of this problem before so I used G-controller. It works.
[Link]

The buttons are both touch-sensitive and physical buttons. The problem is if your thumb is touching any of the big buttons, it will prefer that over the directional click. Add to that the fact that the area the phone considers to be part of the non-directional buttons is much bigger than what it considers to be the directional buttons and it is a problem.
I wish people would stop following Steve Jobs's design ideas. Fewer buttons does not a better product make.

Function keys and scroll direction

So, I'm loving the hell out of my Surface RT (64GB with black Touch cover) except for two things.
1: I use the actual function keys (F1-F12) a lot more than I need a shortcut key for the play/pause button or the Share charm. Due to the placement of the Fn button on the right side of the keyboard, it's difficult to use the keys the way I'm used to. For example, Alt+F4 is now Alt+Fn+Play/Pause, and requires two hands. If anybody can find a way to toggle the default state of the Fn key, I would be super-grateful! Ideally, I'd be able to actually remap he keys like you can on advanced USB keyboards; for example, I need the Home and End keys too, but rarely use F8-F10 so I'd like to remap those.
2: The default direction of the multitouch scroll drives me up a wall (but only if I try to drive down it). It's a pointing device, not a touchscreen, dammit! I expect it to function like a scroll wheel on a mouse, or the side-scroll on older PC touchpads, or the TrackPoint scroll on the Thinkpad, or... you get my point. Yes, I get that Apple did it first; they were dumb then, are still dumb now, and MS was very dumb to copy them. On the other hand, at least Apple lets you change it! If the direction of this scroll can be reversed (preferably without screwing up the scroll wheel of an actual mouse, if I were to connect one), that would be amazing.
I was really hoping that the included drivers would include controls for these things, the way Microsoft's normal mice and keyboards come with highly configurable drivers, or most Laptops come with fairly advanced Synaptics touchpad driver controls. If any of you have contacts at MS on or near the Surface team, tell them that we really want some drivers like those, please!

have you been able to resolve the Fn key issue?
GoodDayToDie said:
So, I'm loving the hell out of my Surface RT (64GB with black Touch cover) except for two things.
1: I use the actual function keys (F1-F12) a lot more than I need a shortcut key for the play/pause button or the Share charm. Due to the placement of the Fn button on the right side of the keyboard, it's difficult to use the keys the way I'm used to. For example, Alt+F4 is now Alt+Fn+Play/Pause, and requires two hands. If anybody can find a way to toggle the default state of the Fn key, I would be super-grateful! Ideally, I'd be able to actually remap he keys like you can on advanced USB keyboards; for example, I need the Home and End keys too, but rarely use F8-F10 so I'd like to remap those.
2: The default direction of the multitouch scroll drives me up a wall (but only if I try to drive down it). It's a pointing device, not a touchscreen, dammit! I expect it to function like a scroll wheel on a mouse, or the side-scroll on older PC touchpads, or the TrackPoint scroll on the Thinkpad, or... you get my point. Yes, I get that Apple did it first; they were dumb then, are still dumb now, and MS was very dumb to copy them. On the other hand, at least Apple lets you change it! If the direction of this scroll can be reversed (preferably without screwing up the scroll wheel of an actual mouse, if I were to connect one), that would be amazing.
I was really hoping that the included drivers would include controls for these things, the way Microsoft's normal mice and keyboards come with highly configurable drivers, or most Laptops come with fairly advanced Synaptics touchpad driver controls. If any of you have contacts at MS on or near the Surface team, tell them that we really want some drivers like those, please!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Fn Key issue is a little bit annoying, anybody have a solution for it?

Touch Cover Sensitivity

Has anyone found a way or believe it is possible to control how sensitive each button on the touch cover is? I presume the software just sees it as a giant flat surface, and then maps presses in specific areas to button presses. So I guess really you would be saying to the software that touches from this specific area of the cover we are going to accept at a lower pressure.
What I want is to be able to increase the sensitivity of the spacebar area. I feel like when typing from my lapt or any other non solid surface that I really have to hit the spacebar for it to register, where as the rest of the buttons feel spot on.
Thoughts?

tiny17 said:
Has anyone found a way or believe it is possible to control how sensitive each button on the touch cover is? I presume the software just sees it as a giant flat surface, and then maps presses in specific areas to button presses. So I guess really you would be saying to the software that touches from this specific area of the cover we are going to accept at a lower pressure.
What I want is to be able to increase the sensitivity of the spacebar area. I feel like when typing from my lapt or any other non solid surface that I really have to hit the spacebar for it to register, where as the rest of the buttons feel spot on.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's funny you mention that, because I have more or less the same issue, but with the Shift keys. I always miss the Shift key and hit either below it or I don't hit it hard enough. I want to prevent that from happening because it can get kind of annoying. Great question.

Your assumption is not actually true, by the way - different parts of the cover have different sensors, or no sensor, under them.
I've found hitting the spacebar with my left thumb way more reliable than with my right. Not sure why, and since this isn't my default style, it currently slows down my typing. Also, if I remember to hit further upward on the bar, it works better. It's sensitive all the way down to the top of the trackpad, but it's either more sensitive closer to the other keys, or something about my hand geometry makes me naturally hit it better when I hit further up.

I always found the sensitivity to be a bit low for my taste and I can't get over this particular sensitivity level still. Since it's software that interprets presses, there could be a registry key for that. Microsoft should make it a setting.
Anyway, I'm also starting to experience a bigger problem - certain keys' sensitivity degrading. Now it takes considerably more force for such often used keys as A and S to register compared to the rarely used ones. While it takes an okay amount of pressure for a "devices" button to register a click, I have to stab the A for it to register. And I think it will get worse.
P.S.: I type quite a lot though wouldn't go for the type cover because touch cover is more aesthetically pleasing and good enough as a keyboard if worked correctly, up to it's potential.

Also, I think most people would appreciate autocorrect on the touch cover.

Drop down menu with touch on surface, problems

Aloha all, Having trouble knowing how to ask this...bear with me.
I am having problems with the menus that are triggered by the 'hover' action of a mouse. Using the surface pro or even my lumia 920 I am frequently unable to operate many menus on sites.
officefootballpools.com tournamentpools.com and a host of other sites have the same type menus.
Normal action would be with a mouse and when you hover it drops down a menu that you click your selection. Its isn't a normal drop down but a .li. html type for the menu.
Im sure this has been discussed but I was looking for some vocabulary so I can search the right threads.

You cant interact with hover images via capacitative touch. The browser has no way to tell if you want to click or just show the drop down, it assumes click. Some sites (with limited success) I have managed to press and hold on a link to show its drop down, then if you ignore the usual right click popup then you can sometimes hit the correct icon, this is on a lumia 710.
Otherwise if you have a device with an active stylus (the surface pro for example) you can get rollover easily. If you notice when you hold the pen a tiny bit off of the screen you get a little dot appearing on the screen where the pen is pointing without any physical contact. This dot can trigger rollover events as in this case windows knows that you are not touching the screen, touch becomes a click, hovering the pen over the screen becomes mouse movement which is enough to trigger rollover.

Thank you for your reply. I understand and assumed the same. I have been working with an x61t for a few years so the jump to capacitive has thrown me a bit.
Okay, so what are web developers doing instead of this type of drop down? I recently read an article that says a lot of developers are moving to the new msn.com type format with nav bars on left or right with no hover...
Anyway thanks again. The volume of sites with this issue is pretty large. Yahoo.com/fantasy chokes a donkey, etc.
Side question, does Win8 have the on screen mouse that I used to have on my Lenovo? Or is that a Lenovo product probably?

Alot of web developers are doing nothing at all. In some cases clicking the link that causes the dropdown redirects to a page listing the other links in that dropdown, that's always handy. Usually most devs create mobile versions of sites which are normally touch friendly. I have seen 1 or 2 sites create iPhone versions before, these worked nicely on android so I would assume they are fine on the lumia and maybe the surface.
I haven't ever seen an on screen mouse before but if there is not one in windows 8 then there may be a 3rd party one somewhere. I am on my phone right now, otherwise I would have looked myself.

One advantage of using "Mobile" websites is that they should be designed with the limitation of touchscreens - specifically, the inability to track hover - in mind. That may help you out.
Alternatively, the Surface Pro uses an active Wacom digitizer (as well as a touchscreen) that can sense the pen at a distance. You can use the stylus pretty much perfectly as a mouse, with hover and right-click and everything.