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Wifi and GSM quick questions....

Hello,
I have had my PDA Universal now for a week. I have changed it to GSM so it doesnt go onto GPRS, and give me a huge bill. I only want to connect via Wi-fi and only when the Wifi is available so that is not a problem.
What I would like to know is, when I connect via Wi-fi, either in my house, work or Uni, there is no cost by the GSM Service Provider, which is O2 in this case.
Another question is I have changed the setting to dial a 0845 (national rate) number in England for a internet connection when I am desparate, but will I get charged the Mobile network rate for an 0845 number or will this be treated as a data transfer and at a different rate?
Many thanks... I know these may seem obvious to some, bu not to me, as I am very new to PDA's..
Jimmy.

Dumb Question - 3G / Edge

This is going to be a really dumb question, but its something I am trying to find out. When my cell phone is connected to either a 3G or an Edge network, am I incurring any data charges? even when the phone is just simply sitting on the desk? If I make a call while on a 3G or Edge network, again does that incur any data charges?
I realize that if I go onto the internet using either 3G/Edge that I will incur data charges, but trying to find out if I will when making phone calls / doing nothing on the phone but having the little 3G / Edge icon showing at the top.
Thanks, told ya it was a dumb question!!

Nope...
Only if the phone connects will you be charged for data. The indicators simply state you have Edge or 3G (or some phones show H for HSDPA) data service availble. Think of it like your signal meter for data. One thing to be careful of is what applications on your device can access the internet. Comon ones are weather (HTC Home plug), e-mail or internet.

2manyphones said:
Only if the phone connects will you be charged for data. The indicators simply state you have Edge or 3G (or some phones show H for HSDPA) data service availble. Think of it like your signal meter for data. One thing to be careful of is what applications on your device can access the internet. Comon ones are weather (HTC Home plug), e-mail or internet.
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Thanks, I installed NoData and disabled both connections there. So hopefully that means nothing will be able to connect (unless I want it to). My phone has WiFi so I don't want to be racking up charges on data services when I don't need to.
I think I am just nervous as have heard so many times about people racking up huge bills without even knowing they were doing so.

Any way of knowing if data is coming through 3G or WiFi?

Pretty self explanatory this one - is there any way of knowing whether your mobile internet connection (3G) or WiFi is being used in, for example, a browser session? Just don't want to make the mistake of looking at YouTube on the phone, meaning to use the home WiFi, and end up using my 3G by accident, and paying through the nose for extra feed.

ryanbryan said:
Pretty self explanatory this one - is there any way of knowing whether your mobile internet connection (3G) or WiFi is being used in, for example, a browser session? Just don't want to make the mistake of looking at YouTube on the phone, meaning to use the home WiFi, and end up using my 3G by accident, and paying through the nose for extra feed.
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The icons on your task bar should indicate if you have a active data connection.

Or, you can use Spb Wireless Monitor (which you need to purchase). It produces reports telling you which software uses which connections and the amount of data transferred.

In a discussion I had with HTC Tech Support, they told me that wifi, when enabled, over-rides the cellular data. I'm not sure if this just applies to the settings or always. Hopefully, someone can provide a definitive answer.

Yes that is correct, if WIFI is enabled you WILL NOT have a cellular data connection.

Umm. There is a wifi icon in the taskbar o.o and a signal icon also.....whichever is there means it's active and if wifi is there, your data will not be active, only wifi.

What all you are saying is true but some applications still use the data network even if wifi is turned on and connected it seems. I have the same issue(i don't have a data plan with my fuze since my college has wifi everywhere). But things like weather and other native apps on the phone will just turn on the 3g network and stat using data instead of wifi.

if a device is transfering data over gprs/3g whatever
it show arrows moving in the signal str icon
otherwise it use wifi

Applications can choose to use a certain connection if they are programmed to do so, windows only gives each one a type of 'ranking', the fastest connection having the highest ranking and being the one an application is to use by default, but the application can override this and choose whatever connection it likes. This ranking is called the "Interface Metric" if you'd like to learn more about it.
There's an HTC program called 'bytecounter' that monitors the SMDx: ports in the system, which are the ports the system uses for data.. in bytecounter you will see the values increase if an application is using data over cellular network. let me know if you'd like me to upload it.

Umm. There is a wifi icon in the taskbar o.o and a signal icon also.....whichever is there means it's active and if wifi is there, your data will not be active, only wifi.
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Well that wasn't particularly helpful. I too have made the same assumption, but the question asked if there was any way to make sure.
windows only gives each one a type of 'ranking', the fastest connection having the highest ranking and being the one an application is to use by default, but the application can override this and choose whatever connection it likes
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Well that was the kind of answer I was looking for, and is particularly pertinent in my case, as my connection through my mobile provider is about as fast (or maybe even faster) than my fixed line connection at home. A rather bizarre situation, but such is the advancement of Australian broadband infrastructure.
The last couple of times I have used it, I have taken to turning off the phone connection so that only WiFi is running, and then using the internet. It would be good if you can upload the byetcounter program, seems like a free (?) version of the software programatix mentioned.

Here ya go!

Maybe this is just me, but when I try to unzip that file, nothing comes up....?

lol, i always forget to remove the hidden attribute.. let me go ahead and fix that..
Edit: fixed

Newer Windows Live (including the one that come with Touch Pro) will always dial-up the 3G/GPRS connection when checking for email in Messaging. But if you are checking in Windows Live, most of the time it doesn't dial-up but sometimes, it does.
So far that is the only program that I know of behaves like this. I contacted Microsoft regarding this and they keep asking me to contact my celular provider for help. In other word, they are not helping (or do not understand the problem).
Anyway I solved the problem by changing the Connections setting to "My Work Network" for Internet. The catch is, if I really want to use 3G/GPRS, I'll have to change the setting to my celular 3G/GPRS connection.

Or you could use the nodata application from modaco and disable whenever you like the cellular 3g connection just to be sure you are using wifi.When you are away from wifi networks you can in a matter of 2 clicks reenable the cellular 3g connection...

3G - voice and data (do all calls take you to 1x)?

Hi All -
Sorry for a weird (simple) question:
I am used to GSM / At&T - where if you had a 3G connection you could talk on the phone and be on the internet at the same time.
Is CDMA / VZW different? I just talked to a tech and she said it wasn't possible.
Confused...
-Daniel

According to what I have read on this forum and experienced, with CDMA, you cannot be on the internet and on the phone at the same time.
If I am incorrect, I am sure someone will correct me!
KD8FRE

that is correct. It's not possible on CDMA.

Wow. Interesting.
I guess there's a map for that in AT&T's future.
Thanks all - appreciate it.
-D

I never really noticed any kind of problems with it. I can make a phone call while my phone is tethered and I can still also receive calls, I think it probably temporally boots you off 3G during the phone call but put you back on right after.

Yeah EVDO is "1x Evolution Data Only/Optimized" which means that once a voice call comes in you are switched to 1X mode.
The latest SVDO specification (recently released) allows carriers to quadruple their voice calls and also allows data and voice at the same time. However nobody has implemented this yet.

I believe no one will implement this.... Because all providers are going HSPA or right to LTE... Where we will be able to have data and voice at the same time.

3G - voice and data
You can talk and surf the internet but only if you establish a Wifi connection

relicsoul said:
You can talk and surf the internet but only if you establish a Wifi connection
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or if you use VoIP

Seriously though, what's the benefit of having an internet connection going at the same times as making a phone call? Please note, I'm not trying to be rude about this, I'm just curious about it.

Doesn't navigation(on sprint) use the internet? Im able to talk on the phone and still use navigation

There are some "live caller id" services which will do an online 411 lookup for any number that calls you, plus it's nice to be able to browse the internet to look something up while talking with someone (usually handsfree) for example if we're trying to decide on a movie or dinner or where to go out - all very handy to have a simultaneous internet and voice connection.

AstarteSV said:
Seriously though, what's the benefit of having an internet connection going at the same times as making a phone call? Please note, I'm not trying to be rude about this, I'm just curious about it.
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Two big ones:
1. Conference calls with email coming in. Like - your next meeting has been moved (exchange, push).
2. On phone call - someone asks a question that needs internet connection (I found it this way - they asked what the weather would be like on Sat (it was Monday). I said... hold on a sec... I'll find out... then realized that there is no internet... so I pulled my iPhone out of my pocket and checked it instead. Again - this is something that AT&T does today - just didn't think CDMA was behind the curve on it...
-Daniel

Cool, thanks for showing me the light

My problem (with Sprint) when I had to have a CDMA device is that there is a difference in signal between EVDO and 1X. For instance, I had full signal for EV, but hardly any for 1X... Thus I could be on data all I want, but I had troubles with phone calls....

AstarteSV said:
Seriously though, what's the benefit of having an internet connection going at the same times as making a phone call? Please note, I'm not trying to be rude about this, I'm just curious about it.
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yeah honey, i'll meet you ... where was that? let me punch it in my google maps... o wait CDMA FAIL

Question Force disconnection from mobile network on one SIM

I'd like to force my Pixel 7 to disconnect from any mobile network, without using airplane mode. Do you know a way to achieve this?
Reason for asking this: I will travel abroad and use a secondary SIM to provide me with data, while using my primary SIM with voWiFi (or Backup calling). That'd would keep me reachable on my phone number and allow me to make calls/SMS @home at local rates.
The reason for having my primary SIM disconnected from any mobile network is due to the fact that my primary carrier will charge me for calls/SMS depending on the latest place I got connected to a mobile network. They charge roaming fees even when you're using voWiFi in airplane mode! I have tested this already on a previous trip.
One way would be to select a network manually, or a network that I know it won't connect. However, if I turn on and off airplane mode (to take a flight), the phone will connect to the latest network it connected successfully to.
So my strategy is to connect manually to my home network at home, hoping the phone doesn't magically connect to a network. That's why, I'd like to really make sure that the phone can't connect to any mobile network, just to be sure it won't connect to a network while roaming. But only on the primary SIM. For the other SIM I do want to get connected.
For those wondering, my carrier is T-Mobile NL.

Try messing up the apn details on your sim when abroad. That will prevent connection

The issue is that messing with apn won't prevent the phone to register to a roaming network. That alone will tell my carrier where I am and charge roaming fees accordingly...

@jasalta387 Interesting problem for sure. Can you forward your calls to the secondary (travel) sim and use WhatsApp or Signal to call on wifi? Or leave an auto message giving your foreign number. Any time you connect to the primary network you will be charged, no two ways about it on an Android device. I do believe the iPhone has that capability however. Even if you receive a text on the primary you will trigger a roaming charge. Perhaps the only way to avoid that is turning off the sim entirely while traveling. See if they have an inexpensive international plan?

Indeed, iPhone can easily be disconnected from a cellular network by selecting one that doesn't register. That setting sticks even while cycling through airplane mode or a device reboot. On Pixel this is not the case. Pixel will register again, hence my issue.
I know I could rely on 3rd party apps or services or call forwarding. Problem is that I then need to redirect all people who could reach me to them somehow, while using wifi calling is just fine. Even SMS come and go through it. I just need to not make my carrier aware I'm overseas. Hence my question.
I could use a second device that provides me data and keep my phone all the time in airplane mode. This needs that I carry the two devices all the time with the logistics of charging two phones and all of that. I just want to do it all with my Pixel.
I was thinking one thing: I need to go to the US. Is 3G dead there for good? Because then I could tell my Pixel to use 3G and not allow 2G. That'd keep it away from any accidental network registration upon landing.

jasalta387 said:
Indeed, iPhone can easily be disconnected from a cellular network by selecting one that doesn't register. That setting sticks even while cycling through airplane mode or a device reboot. On Pixel this is not the case. Pixel will register again, hence my issue.
I know I could rely on 3rd party apps or services or call forwarding. Problem is that I then need to redirect all people who could reach me to them somehow, while using wifi calling is just fine. Even SMS come and go through it. I just need to not make my carrier aware I'm overseas. Hence my question.
I could use a second device that provides me data and keep my phone all the time in airplane mode. This needs that I carry the two devices all the time with the logistics of charging two phones and all of that. I just want to do it all with my Pixel.
I was thinking one thing: I need to go to the US. Is 3G dead there for good? Because then I could tell my Pixel to use 3G and not allow 2G. That'd keep it away from any accidental network registration upon landing.
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I'm intrigued by this and would love to find a solution for you. Oh yeah, 3G is dead across the US from all reports. So I'm trying to parse this scenario, let's see if I get this right. You want to have phone calls come into your primary phone line (Sim 1) but no network connectivity for data, right so far. Also you want SMS to the primary while roaming. The problem is that even if you don't get a phone call or text the connection to the network alone will trigger a billing instance, right so far again?
My daughter has an iPhone and turns off data on the sim but can get phone calls and text. As soon as she does though there is a daily billing charge of $10 because she's outside the US. I also think she can connect to wifi and make calls and text without a carrier network. But I'm not sure about. But that aside, how would you like it to work? Would you like it to connect to the network but not get charged unless you get a call or SMS? Because once a call comes in you're roaming charges will ensue. In airplane mode and strictly wifi there should be no charges but you say they bill you anyway right? Are you sure you didn't get a text or something to trigger the charge? I hope I'm reading this right.

My carrier bills calls and SMS based on the country of the latest connected cellular network. So if I don't connect to any network while I'm abroad my carrier will think I never left the country.
I don't want neither data nor calls/SMS on my primary SIM using cellular while abroad. I can get all calls and SMS via WiFi calling on that primary SIM. To get WiFi calling when I'm abroad I will use the data connection on my secondary SIM or any WiFi network.
Because of the need to get the secondary SIM on, airplane mode doesn't help me. So I need my primary SIM to never to any cellular network while I'm abroad.

jasalta387 said:
My carrier bills calls and SMS based on the country of the latest connected cellular network. So if I don't connect to any network while I'm abroad my carrier will think I never left the country.
I don't want neither data nor calls/SMS on my primary SIM using cellular while abroad. I can get all calls and SMS via WiFi calling on that primary SIM. To get WiFi calling when I'm abroad I will use the data connection on my secondary SIM or any WiFi network.
Because of the need to get the secondary SIM on, airplane mode doesn't help me. So I need my primary SIM to never to any cellular network while I'm abroad.
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And if you turn off the sim then even WiFi doesn't work on your primary number?

If the SIM is turned off, then you don't get WiFi calling

Try the 4636 menu
Choose the SIM you want from drop down
3 dot menu top right
Disable data connection

jasalta387 said:
If the SIM is turned off, then you don't get WiFi calling
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Is it possible to adjust the order of airplane mode / network /wifi on-off so as to not allow the sim to connect to the network but still allow wifi on the sim? So for instance, disable the sim, turn on airplane mode, turn on the sim and then enable wifi calling while in airplane mode, turn off airplane mode with data turned off on the sim. I can't believe with no data, calls, sms and only wifi the carrier will charge you roaming. That just doesn't seem right.

bobby janow said:
Is it possible to adjust the order of airplane mode / network /wifi on-off so as to not allow the sim to connect to the network but still allow wifi on the sim? So for instance, disable the sim, turn on airplane mode, turn on the sim and then enable wifi calling while in airplane mode, turn off airplane mode with data turned off on the sim. I can't believe with no data, calls, sms and only wifi the carrier will charge you roaming. That just doesn't seem right.
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@jasalta387
I don't know if you would follow this suggestion...
But in case you are interested in it, this sounds like something you could pull off automatically with something like MacroDroid or Tasker or some other automation app -- even without being rooted! But I concur, it doesn't make sense that a carrier charge roaming when there would be no data, calls, or sms but only wifi....I'm of the opinion (previously stated somewhere in the thread here) that you might've either misread the bill and/or accidentally "caught" a text or transferred a byte of data and it triggered...

Hey there, I know it sounds harsh that a carrier bills this way. It is verified and discussed in a local forum here (in Dutch) https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/74880578#74880578
Of course, here there are a few things at play:
1- the carrier wants to have a clear way of communication and support. If you are abroad, those are the prices you pay for. That's it. You know it for sure. They don't want to have to explain how to turn on VoWIFI and explain how to make that working for every phone, or explain to you that you made a call thinking you were on VoWIFI while you weren't. Their approach is crystal clear.
2- the carrier makes some extra income this way. While travelling in the US: for every SMS sent they charge 0.51 EUR, calls placed 1.27 EUR, calls received 0.76 EUR and 2.50 EUR per MB of data. For data, they sell some passes that makes the price more reasonable. Note that unlimited plans for domestic data/calls here start at 25 EUR per month.
3- In The Netherlands (and for pretty much every country in EU) people rely quite a lot on 3rd party apps for calls and texting, especially when you are abroad. WhatsApp is the go-to service, even for domestic communication. People don't even bother using their home carrier when travelling outside of EU. They just remove (or disable) that SIM. So the high cost of roaming is usually left to business users for which companies pay or make better deals with the carriers.
One thing I didn't mention is that in NL, pretty much all carriers limit VoWIFI to Dutch IP addresses. To use VoWIFI you'd need to use a router that tunnels all IP traffic via a VPN that has an exit point in The Netherlands. That's how I conducted my test and verified that all activity using VoWIFI was billed using the same fares as if I was using a roaming cellular network.
I want to try this using a secondary SIM from a Dutch provider, which will give me the Dutch IP address. Backup Calling on my primary SIM will make that SIM to connect to VoWIFI. But to get my home fares, I really need to make sure that my primary SIM doesn't connect to any network while I'm travelling (hence my original request).