Related
Don't know what happened... but my alert was put into Q&A even though it's not a question.
Sorry, for the cross-posting... but this issue is very important to all of us who care about rooting/modifying our devices. We may soon lose the legal exemption to do that.
UPDATE: I see that xda-dev has an article in its main portal page...
Bumping this until Feb. 10...
when no one will be able to affect the situation...
TRIED the website but it must be having some issues. Thanks Geek for the heads up. What a freakin joke. Utter and total BS. Imagine if the government tried to tell people that they couldn't modify there car? I'll try to find a better link to the petition.
Before everyone gets hyped:
It's a little bit complicated. First off, the Federal Government (namely a member of Congress) would have to care enough to push for a law to be passed. Another thing that could happen is that there could be an Agency regulation that specifically prohibits rooting. However for that to happen, they have to authority to be able to enforce it.
As long as you are not reverse engineering, you are not breaking any U.S. law. This exemption that is expiring only clarified a defense to a law that does not exist, meaning that we specifically stated that rooting was not a crime, while there was no law stating that modification was a crime. It is a very vague, legal gray area. It's a lot like gun laws- things are not settled until they are tried in court.
So hopefully it gets renewed.
finch8423 said:
Before everyone gets hyped:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too late. Getting hyped is a prerequisite for being a member of xda-dev.
finch8423 said:
It's a little bit complicated. First off, the Federal Government (namely a member of Congress) would have to care enough to push for a law to be passed. Another thing that could happen is that there could be an Agency regulation that specifically prohibits rooting. However for that to happen, they have to authority to be able to enforce it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that it is complicated. But, according to EFF: Some device manufacturers claim that jailbreaking violates Section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), which carries stiff penalties.there is already such a law. Granted, there has not been a court case, yet, testing that law. But it is on the books.
finch8423 said:
As long as you are not reverse engineering, you are not breaking any U.S. law. This exemption that is expiring only clarified a defense to a law that does not exist, meaning that we specifically stated that rooting was not a crime, while there was no law stating that modification was a crime. It is a very vague, legal gray area. It's a lot like gun laws- things are not settled until they are tried in court.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you may wish to read, specifically, about Section 1201 of the DMCA. It is false comfort to think that a law does not exist... it does exist. The wikipedia article on the DMCA has a good discussion. If you are more of a legal geek, then the government provides congressional report 105-796 and a summary on the internet. For information on how institutions of learning can be affected, EDUCAUSE addresses the issue on its site.
finch8423 said:
So hopefully it gets renewed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of creating this thread. To help ensure that it is renewed.
A bull****, nothing more. It is my property and I do with it what I want. They can only affect my warrenty. They can only do something if its a carrier branded and you don't buy for full price . Then device is still a carrier property
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
This country is already broke (not only financially, but also morally -- but that's an entirely different discussion), how will they go about actually enforcing this law? I know that phone companies can gather a lot of information about your phone remotely, but can they tell whether your phone is rooted or not?
I'm not trying to be pompous, so I apologize if I came off like that. I completely agree with you.
They can claim all they want. It's important for everyone to know that if it comes to that, there is no specific law addressing this, only claims under the DMCA.
In my legal opinion, root privileges can hardly be misconstrued as copyright infringement. It's mainly Macintosh that is pushing this though- they claim that jailbreaking is illegal because of the close-source nature of their products (It's also ironic to note that many of the working conditions of their factories would be considered illegal in every country that they sell their products in).
Well macintosh and... recently, ASUS, right? and one other... last summer, but I can't recall who right now.
Let's just say... for sake of argument that carriers sign agreements with manufacturerers (when, in fact, they're different companies)... that require them to deny service to "rooted" devices based on the law... or maybe not the law... but their collective interpretation of the law...
Honestly...
Ndaa, sopa, pipa... Now this???
Dammit my m4 is getting put to use soon isn't it??
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
^ add ACTA to that list.
Sent from my SGS 4G.
You do realize that google gave us source, and samsung gave us source, and they both stated that "THIS CAN BE USED FOR "ENRICHMENT" OF YOUR PHONE" google android is 100% free. Even if it expired, it wouldn't effect us. Whoever the fool that initially stated that rooting will go away is false.
As ACTA is *****. My country accepted it, **** them
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
gefilus said:
As ACTA is *****. My country accepted it, **** them
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn... is your town as beautiful in person as it looks in pictures? I had to look it up to see where the hell you lived
Watch profile and will see where I live
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
airfluip1 said:
You do realize that google gave us source, and samsung gave us source, and they both stated that "THIS CAN BE USED FOR "ENRICHMENT" OF YOUR PHONE" google android is 100% free. Even if it expired, it wouldn't effect us. Whoever the fool that initially stated that rooting will go away is false.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you suggesting that EFF doesn't know what the hell they are talking about?
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
Maybe. Just ask Google.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using xda premium
We might not be talking apples to apples...
I know apple has fought their phones being jail broken. But isn't it the carriers who really have the problem with it? They want to make you buy their network specific phone from them?
They can only put this law if there is one only on devices which are carrier branded. On unlocked or unbramded devices they can't do the ****. It is in my proparty and take you hand of from it, I can do with my device what I want
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
lumin30 said:
Damn... is your town as beautiful in person as it looks in pictures? I had to look it up to see where the hell you lived
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mostly and almost the same like in pictures. And ye waterfall is or mark
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
Updated 09/6/12 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31190482&postcount=81
This is a combined log of my attempt to get answers from Verizon and Samsung regarding the encrypted bootloader. I currently have a ticket with level III tech support at Samsung. It took a huge dog and pony show to get this far and I have had several forum members contact me asking to pass along info and ask questions when I finally get a hold of the right people.
I posted most of this in another thread, but it not where it should have been so I am moving it for a mod so we can keep that other development thread clean. Its 8am EST and Samsung Level III should be open in three hours as they are not staffed 24/7 like Level II/I.
For the record Samsungs Tech Support phone number is 800-726-7864
Just remember the rep you talk to regardless of what their position in the company is had no say in the encrypting of the bootloader. Its not their fault Verizon screwed us, please keep that in mind if you call. Using 5c technical words will get you past Level I but level II seemed to be on point. It took some manipulative games to get the guy to admit there was even a level III department; at first he told me level II was the highest I could go in tech support. Will update with more info when I have something.
I am also considering contacting the firm that handled the Motorola V710 lawsuit against Verizon years ago. We won that one and anyone who wanted got to trade in their phone and accessories for a full refund, no ETF, and if they wanted could also get a new device w/o extending their contract. I hate lawyers and would rather cut off my pinky finger then deal with them but it may be the only option in the end. Its like Verizon delivered us cake, then shot our dog and walked away. So mentally exhausted dealing with this crap.
Lastly, I was able to get a hold of Verizon corporate and had a low level executive call me back. This was before the device was released and we knew the bootloader was encrypted. She told me to save her number, and I am glad I did because once we found out about the lockdown I called her back and left VM. Should hear back from her Monday.
Verizon's Corporate Contact Info.
Verizon Corporate Office Headquarters:
140 West Street
New York, NY 10007
Corporate Phone Number: 1-212-395-1000
Corporate Fax Number: 1-212-571-1897
Original Post:
Ok, just an update. Level III Samsung tech support is not 24/7 like Level II/I. I have a ticket in the system regarding the issue and its been forwarded to Level III.
They will be in tomorrow (Saturday) from 8am (PST) to 7pm (PST) and I have to call back to get a hold of someone in the Level III department. I will keep dragging this up the chain of command till I can get some answers. Level II once again confirmed what we already know, Verizon did mess with the phone. Level II said don't bother with Fastboot because were not getting in that way. I don't know if he was lying but he seemed to know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the odin/fastboot switch.
One more thing to note, I am not sure I believe him but he said that they sent the phones to Verizon, and its Verizon that did the messing around not Samsung. I find it hard to believe Verizon was able to do this without Samsung support.
I don't have high hopes of getting anything that will be able to help us out of Level III but I will try. They have also lodged a my customer complaint and supposedly I am going to be getting a call back from someone from their corporate office in consumer relations.
I wish I could help more on the technical side but my experience only takes me to the point where everyone else has gotten with fastboot. I am however quite the people person when it comes to making noise with corporations and will keep up the good fight with Verizon / Samsung Corporate.
If there is anything specific you want me to ask Level III send me a PM by tomorrow morning and I will address it with them when I call. I know enough that I should be able to at least hold a conversation with them on the subject but more ammo would be great. I would also be willing to conference call with a repeatable dev/mod when I call them so that you don't have to jump through the two hours of crap I just did to get this escalated.
Post 2: (A reply to a forum member asking for an update)
I asked them if there is a reason I can't get into fastboot and the guy said because Verizon has locked down the device. I asked him "how" and "why" but he was unable to provide me with an answer to both questions. He then referred me to Level III as he said they were the ones who could discuss how it was done. I asked him if there was a way around it through odin using .ops he went silent for a while and said he had no information to provide on the subject and just reiterated that Verizon has made changes to the device software and I would have to refer to them regarding those changes.
With regard to the "why" question he simply said that Samsung could not comment on carrier practices only that Verizon requested the lockdown and that the phones were sent to them first to have it applied. He made it sound like Samsung told them to go take a flying leap and Verizon went ahead and did it anyway. Again, were talking about a rep here so take it with a grain of salt.
I talked about the FCC's Block C agreement regarding carriers not locking devices but the rep said he did not have a comment on the subject as he was just tech support. Block C is probably the only legal course of action we have but despite the FCC saying they were going to enforce the rule, we all know how the FCC could give a crap.
I am going to flat out ask Level III to do the right thing and leak a file for us to fix the issue. I may be nuts but I am not delusional and have no real expectoration they will help. I am however going to do my best to get them to slip something that may help a dev find a solution. If I can get at least a small puzzle piece out of Level III it might be the crack in the dam we need to blow open the floodgates.
07/11/12 Samsung Level III blew me off yesterday as well saying they were still looking into the matter. I called again today and finally received an official reply. Samsung says they have no information exactly what Verizon has done to the phone, they do not know exactly what is and is not signed/encrypted, and they have no further information. I have submitted a complaint to the president of Samsung USA but thats as far as I could go with Samsung. They have closed my case and can not provide further information. I asked if they had an original system image before Verizon gimped the phone and they said "yes but we can not provide that to our customers per carrier agreement."
Lastly I was told that there is going to be a Verizon "Developer Edition" that you can buy directly from Samsung in the coming weeks. This is in "direct response to complaints filed by customers" according to Samsung and will be distributed and supported by Samsung directly. It will cost $600+ and basically be the same phone but w/o an signed/encrypted bootloader.
Off the record information from an unnamed outside source: Verizon is releasing a OTA update to patch the root exploit in the coming days. This OTA will break and prevent re-root as well as try and stop people from using the image off of the "Developer Edition" to mess with the "normal" Verizon Galaxy S3. I don't have specific details; sorry. Do not OTA unless you want to loose root and probably not get it back. Verizon is fk'ing pissed; I mean really pissed that we have root.
From what I am hearing, Verizon's "top %5 data abusers" are all typically rooted/romed. The whole point of locking this phone down was to mess with these unlimited data customers. Verizon started this war; let us end it and make them loath the day they decided to fk with the dev community.
Again, my case Support case has been closed with Samsung. We will get nothing further from them nor any direct help. My case with Verizon corporate is also closed; they said Samsung will offer a Developer model directly and if I wanted that kind of access I needed to talk to them not Verizon.
The lawyers still have not called me back. No shock.
Up until this point I have been angry; now I am pissed. This isn't over; not by a long shot.
Will update when I have more information.
07/17/12
Samsung "Office of the President" -
Phone 877-268-2121
eMail [email protected]
FYI Samsung records phone conversations between the 4th minute and the 18th minute. Anything you say after minute 4 and before minute 18 "MAY" be recorded. I know that sounds like a strange window of recording, but its straight out of the mouth of a sympathetic to the cause tech support rep. Just had a great conversation with a guy, nothing is fixed of course but needless to say, there are people in Samsung that have been hearing rumors that the company is tired of carrier's crap and with in the next few years will be offering all Samsung headsets for a subsidized price, directly through Samsung. There will probably be trade-in specials, loyalty discounts, etc. I can't wait not to buy my devices directly through Verizon! Secondly, as of now (Verizon lies again) anything software related with this phone is coming from, programmed by, and completely influenced by Verizon. Samsung manufacturing does not touch the device or support updates after its in the hands of Verizon. The developer model is not Verizon approved, nor is Verizon happy its going to be sold [from what I am told] however per FCC open network regulations Verizon has to allow the device on the network. Updates for the developer model will be directly from Samsung.
I was able to get the Samsung Apps (store) sideloaded on my device BTW. Verizon requested it be removed which is why its not on the device pre-installed. S-Suggest is NOT the same thing as Samsung Apps. Will Write something up here on XDA later when I get a chance.
07/24/12
The Electronic Frontier Foundation called me back and said they need more info on Block C. I am out of town until next Monday and let them know I would get back to them in a few days. They also are finding a lawyer who will do it pro bono. Looks like this may actually make it to court.
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Please call them and let them know on the main VM that you too have been effected by this lockdown, or any lockdown in the US on any carrier. The more people who call the more likely they will take the case. Lots of people calling is how the guys over at Howard Forums were able to get the ball rolling on the v710, so let history repeat itself for the sake of every dev, phone enthusiast, and civil rights advocate.
ROM developers usually work off of donations and by encrypting this and other devices Verizon is stealing from these developers who's livelihood is phone software development. Software developers who want an open platform also have to deal with the hassle that Verizon and other carriers have put them through by locking down devices. If the personal computer was locked down like this when it was first created and sold to people we would never be where we were today technology wise. The crippling of our mobile devices needs to stop, and it needs to stop now.
Its time to take the fight to Verizon and hopefully end the lockdowns once and for all. If the lawfirm takes the case this is going to be winner takes all. This may be our best shot to end device lockdowns in the US once and for all.
I think the push we will make is going to be Block C. Normally Verizon could argue that they locked the device [against the FCC Block C mandate] because of network security. This is going to be hard for them to argue though when every other carrier in the US and internationally has not encrypted the device. It's a long shot, and its going to be up hill, but as far as I see it this is our best chance and the time to strike on this issue is now.
Samsung Level III opens in 30 min. Will update again soon.
Level III is not in on the weekends, so I was just told by the automated message I got when the guy transferred me to that department. ok... Not what they told me yesterday but ok.
So Monday at 8am PST it is, and that's also when Verizon corporate will be calling me back too as the past two calls they have made to me have been the ass crack of dawn. If I time it right I can conference the two in and let them try and point the finger at the other one, to each others faces. No more "That's what the manufacture wanted, go talk to them" vs "That's what the carrier wanted, talk to them" runaround bull****.
Anyway, no updates till Monday then. That gives me time to root.
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
chill145 said:
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes thank you 100%, we are all in this together.
Also please file FCC Consumer Complaints against Verizon for potentially violating the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement.
https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/form2000.action?form_type=2000F
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/it-is-illegal-for-verizon-to-lock-some-bootloaders/
It's a long shot, but maybe worth it.
Have filed complaint with FCC and BBB, posted poor review on both Blue and White versons on VZW website, wall post ripping them apart on VZW facebook, poor reviews on every device site that will let me do so that I know of, personal contact with VZW reps filing complaints.
Any other avenues we can take?
Here's what I wrote in my FCC complaint:
The new Samsung Galaxy SIII on Verizon Wireless has a locked and encrypted bootloader, which appears to violate the openness requirements that Verizon agreed to when it purchased Block C, pursuant to § 27.16 (b) of 47 CFR Ch. I (10–1–10 Edition) available here-- http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title47-vol2-sec27-16.pdf
§ 27.16 (e) clearly states "Handset locking prohibited" except under certain circumstances previously delineated. The anti-consumer actions taken by Verizon impinge upon the free of use of devices by consumers, and potentially harms the livelihoods of developers, who may not be able to do their work on the device of their choice.
I would appreciate the FCC investigating and clarifying this situation.
Thank you,
Thinking further about it, with how prominent devices are in today's world, would various news providers not want to run this story as well?
I recommend tipping off any local newspaper and news station you have access to. Lets get this story out there~!
Thalinor said:
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
I agree that this maybe turning into the Droid X. As a droid x owner, waiting and watching for 18 months to see VZW and Motorola dump on us, I don't think we'll get anywhere with them. There was a huge effort on the DX with petitions, phone calls, emails, twitter, and FB posts.
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
I just filled out a complaint with the FCC basically asking them to enforce the Block C agreement from Verizon.
I'll phone the lawyers posted on the first page when I get a chance at work tomorrow.
amt897 said:
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't even own an S3, nor am I on Verizon, but damn't...I'm doing every one of things and calling just out of principle. I'm glad I left Verizon a long time ago, but they still tried to get more for money for almost 2 years. Damn near ruined my credit...assholes are going down.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using xda premium
I'd love to see this in major media:
"The Samsung S3 is a excellent smartphone, but Verizon's software modifications have made it unlikely to be upgraded and supported long term. If that's important to you, we recommend you consider another carrier."
My girlfriend used to work for the local news, I'll talk to her about contacting her friends at the station and see if I can get a face to face, or at least an email contact. I'll have to dig up all the info I can on the block C stuff and locked/encrypted bootloaders to take to them first.
Sent from my Droid X until I get my SGS3
block c
The Block C issue relates more toward unlocked devices like the nexus on the play store than unlocked bootloaders. You may be able to press the unlocked bootloader issue under the 'open applications' provision, but obviously that did a ton of good for Google Wallet. Of course, I can't find a single device you can use on Verizon's network that isn't held in verizon's death grip, so even the open device provision seems to be being ignored. The worst part is that verizon filed suits against these provisions and LOST. But true to form, if you have enough money and pull, and are willing to screw your customers as every turn (share everything plans are such a great deal right?) you can break the law over and over in broad daylight, and no one with power will bat an eye. Also, I'm not sure why the 'open application' provision was never really used as a battering ram when in came to things like tethering applications.
I think this type of work is very important. Thanks so much. Very much looking forward to hearing more from the companies themselves about why they make these types of decisions. Can't wait for an update here.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda app-developers app
Complained with the FCC, here is my complaint for anyone looking for somewhat of a template.
Recently, after preordering a Samsung Galaxy s3 handset from Verizon, I learned that they have violated the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement by encrypting my device. This directly impacts my ability to enjoy my phone, and take advantage of the spectrum which Verizon owns. While I understand that the purchasing agreement gives Verizon leeway in regards to "reasonable" protection of the network, no other carrier in the United States (or the world), has done this, leading me to believe that this action is indeed unreasonable. It is unfair and anti-competitive for a company to misuse frequencies they own in this way.
I appreciate your time, and would appreciate a response in this matter.
Thank you,
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
skennelly said:
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the whole point! I certainly don't have the money to go up against Verizon and do not want to make a dime out of this; that's not the point at all. I want Verizon to once and for all agree to stop ****ing with our phones. Phones should be sold locked not signed/encrypted.
Locked protects Verizon or the manufacture from having to eat the costs of a new phone when an end user breaks their device doing something irresponsible. I don't want Verizon paying for people's screwed up devices because eventually it will lead to MY bill going up. Its not my fault if someone screw's up their device. On the other hand by encrypting the bootloader Verizon is forcing people to do things that may lead to breaking your phone. If the manufacture offered a phone number for unlocking, where you would agree that unless it was something hardware defective, if you unlock and your device breaks, its not under warranty. Problem solved for everyone; no encrypted bootloader needed.
I am going after Verizon but this is really about every carrier who gimps cell phones. Smartphones have become pocket computers. They are no longer PDA's, or "like" pocket computers, they ARE pocket computers. Hell, my SG3 is got better hardware specs than the **** netbooks people waited in line for last black Friday at Walmart. If we consider netbooks in that they come giving the buyer full administrative access over the device and yet still give the end user the option to hook it up to Wi-Fi. One way or another my devices are hooking up to a company who I pay for data and/or voice service. My rights should be universal and now that the device in my pocket has evolved into a full blown computer, my access rights should evolve as well. Whether its a computer in your pocket or a computer on your desk, it can be used in accordance with your providers service agreement, or it can be abused.
Prejudging your entire customer base to abuse your network and handing down sentence as judge, jury, and executioner like Verizon has done, before people have even had the chance to make the decision to do right or wrong; to me that just violates every ideal set forth in this countries constitution. I am ****ing sick of corporate america ****ting on this countries citizens, and the whole god damn world for that matter. It needs to stop. While I despise lawyers to the core, I sincerely hope they take on this case and prove there are still people in the field who remember why their profession exists (Hint: Its NOT to make money) and that there is some justice left in this country.
/end rant
Update: Talked to Verizon Exec, they have passed info on to the lawyers to look over and may or may not get back to me; at this point its out of her hands.
Update: I have not heard back from the lawyers above, but another user here on XDA PM'd me and said they were able to talk to someone today who told them that the legal team was looking into the case and make a decision after getting more information. They have my number, if they want to call me they can; if not I could care less who spear heads this as long as the battle is fought and won.
Update: I called Samsung, talked to Level I, they tried to transfer me to level III, I was put on told and Level I came back and said they would call me back later. The call never came. I will try them again more vigorously tomorrow.
MichaelVash7886 said:
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMFAO @ Verizon's blatant bull**** lies. Why would Samsung decide, at their own free will and expense, to sign-encrypt ONLY Verizon's Galaxy S3, and not one other carrier in the world? Verizon is full of **** and the fact they think the line "Its the other guys fault" is actually going to work, is flat out ****ing insulting.
Screenshot that and post it here please. I do not use social networking; if they really need to spy on me they have my smartphone information, and know where to find me.
Since unlocking phones (for carrier use) becomes illegal starting tomorrow, we have made a petition to fight back.
Please sign!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-unlocking-cell-phones-legal/1g9KhZG7
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
RBarnett09 said:
Since unlocking phones (for carrier use) becomes illegal starting tomorrow, we have made a petition to fight back.
Please sign!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-unlocking-cell-phones-legal/1g9KhZG7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can do nothing with a petition like this now, this is scheduled to be looked at every 3 years, in 3 years you will have a chance to be heard and get this changed, however, we are stuck with this for at least 3 years.
Milimbar said:
You can do nothing with a petition like this now, this is scheduled to be looked at every 3 years, in 3 years you will have a chance to be heard and get this changed, however, we are stuck with this for at least 3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed. I'm sure the White House is getting a nice chuckle from this petition.
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
Here's the thing about what people may see as a pointless petition.
They are all pointless until created. No matter if this will make any difference or not.
Petitions aren't meant to go by guidelines or by what the current law or cycle of voting represents.
In fact, if we all just sat idly by while things happen around us and shrug our shoulders because well, that's what the law is and it doesn't come back up for discussion for 10 years, so let's just leave it as is, even though the majority of us are against it.
I guess my point is, no matter how small of a change or difference one person may think they will be or make, unless they start somewhere, they may as well roll over like everyone else.
Change starts with YOU!
(or you can accept things for the way they are dealt to you)
Santod is right. If enough people sign it will get attention and maybe it will be enough that it doesn't have to wait for three years before it is brought up again. If we keep allowing the cell companies to control how we use our property then eventually we won't have any control of it. This kind of crap needs to stop somewhere. This idea of not allowing us to decide if we want to stay with a specific carrier is bs. Would you like it if a bank said you had to remain in the same property, exactly the way it was originally purchased for the duration of the contract? Probably not.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Nexus 4, 7, 10 ... ++ More Nexus is the way to go now. Besides, I font see the point in an ithing or win8.
A reason to get one now and get away from VZW, I say.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Why is this crap being posted in forums for Verizon phones? It simply doesn't apply - VZW has never carrier locked their phones.
mike.s said:
Why is this crap being posted in forums for Verizon phones? It simply doesn't apply - VZW has never carrier locked their phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently you don't understand.
It will be illegal for us to unlock our phones to use them how we want to... HTC or not.
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
This law affects all carriers. The only way around it is to get your carrier to unlock the phone for you or buy an unlocked phone from the start. They are only making it illegal to unlock your phone without their knowledge or permission.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
disconnecktie said:
This law affects all carriers. The only way around it is to get your carrier to unlock the phone for you or buy an unlocked phone from the start. They are only making it illegal to unlock your phone without their knowledge or permission.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This definitely won't stop most people.
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
RBarnett09 said:
This definitely won't stop most people.
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A $500,000 fine and 5 years in prison sounds like a pretty good deterrent to keep most people from doing though. I think they are mostly targeting the businesses that are capitalizing on something that the carrier will do for people most of the time. I think part of the problem is that people get a phone on contract and since the phone is subsidized when they don't pay their bill the phone company eats the cost of the phone. If they are able to unlock the phone and use it somewhere else they basically get a free phone.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Plus from what I heard on the radio if you own a phone already then you can unlock it and flash it to whatever carrier. Online petitions are a joke. As you can't prove the people existence because of of no signatures. I could type out ten thousand names names easily. You want change? You want action? Then call your congressmen or woman and voice your dislikes. Have your family,friends,coworkers, and so on to call. Tell them you are not happy and unless you see action you will vote for the other guy. Keep calling and if enough people calls something might be done.
Or you could go the easier route and just buy a google branded phone and not have to worry about the stupid law lol. It is funny people don't seem to care about stuff till its to late.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
disconnecktie said:
A $500,000 fine and 5 years in prison sounds like a pretty good deterrent to keep most people from doing though. I think they are mostly targeting the businesses that are capitalizing on something that the carrier will do for people most of the time. I think part of the problem is that people get a phone on contract and since the phone is subsidized when they don't pay their bill the phone company eats the cost of the phone. If they are able to unlock the phone and use it somewhere else they basically get a free phone.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy....
I was unaware of that kind of punishment. That's insane.
How would someone get caught unlocking a phone though?
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda premium
I'm pretty sure that the esn will tell the new carrier where the phone came from. Plus you would have to know because unlocking it is probably different depending on which carrier you are coming from. There was a law passed recently that makes it illegal to take a phone with a bad esn and unlock it to use with a different carrier as well. The major carriers also have the ability to make a bad esn phone no good across most of the other carriers too.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Milimbar said:
You can do nothing with a petition like this now, this is scheduled to be looked at every 3 years, in 3 years you will have a chance to be heard and get this changed, however, we are stuck with this for at least 3 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tm24fan8 said:
Indeed. I'm sure the White House is getting a nice chuckle from this petition.
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who's laughing now!!!??
As I said before, it all starts with us guys.... :good:
Official White House Response to Make Unlocking Cell Phones Legal.
(NOTE: This is in regards to carrier unlocking, not bootloader unlocking)
Source: LINK
It's Time to Legalize Cell Phone Unlocking
By R. David Edelman
Thank you for sharing your views on cell phone unlocking with us through your petition on our We the People platform.
Last week the White House brought together experts from across government who work on telecommunications, technology, and copyright policy, and we're pleased to offer our response.
The White House agrees with the 114,000+ of you who believe that consumers should be able to unlock their cell phones without risking criminal or other penalties.
In fact, we believe the same principle should also apply to tablets, which are increasingly similar to smart phones. And if you have paid for your mobile device, and aren't bound by a service agreement or other obligation, you should be able to use it on another network.
It's common sense, crucial for protecting consumer choice, and important for ensuring we continue to have the vibrant, competitive wireless market that delivers innovative products and solid service to meet consumers' needs.
This is particularly important for secondhand or other mobile devices that you might buy or receive as a gift, and want to activate on the wireless network that meets your needs -- even if it isn't the one on which the device was first activated.
All consumers deserve that flexibility.
The White House's position detailed in this response builds on some critical thinking done by the President's chief advisory Agency on these matters:
the Department of Commerce's National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA).
For more context and information on the technical aspects of the issue, you can review the NTIA's letter to the Library of Congress' Register of Copyrights (.pdf),
voicing strong support for maintaining the previous exception to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) for cell phone carrier unlocking.
Contrary to the NTIA's recommendation, the Librarian of Congress ruled that phones purchased after January of this year would no longer be exempted from the DMCA.
The law gives the Librarian the authority to establish or eliminate exceptions -- and we respect that process.
But it is also worth noting the statement the Library of Congress released today on the broader public policy concerns of the issue.
Clearly the White House and Library of Congress agree that the DMCA exception process is a rigid and imperfect fit for this telecommunications issue, and we want to ensure this particular challenge for mobile competition is solved.
So where do we go from here?
The Obama Administration would support a range of approaches to addressing this issue, including narrow legislative fixes in the telecommunications space that make it clear:
neither criminal law nor technological locks should prevent consumers from switching carriers when they are no longer bound by a service agreement or other obligation.
We also believe the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), with its responsibility for promoting mobile competition and innovation, has an important role to play here.
FCC Chairman Genachowski today voiced his concern about mobile phone unlocking (.pdf), and to complement his efforts, NTIA will be formally engaging with the FCC as it addresses this urgent issue.
Finally, we would encourage mobile providers to consider what steps they as businesses can take to ensure that their customers can fully reap the benefits and features they expect when purchasing their devices.
We look forward to continuing to work with Congress, the wireless and mobile phone industries, and most importantly you -- the everyday consumers who stand to benefit from this greater flexibility -- to ensure our laws keep pace with changing technology, protect the economic competitiveness that has led to such innovation in this space, and offer consumers the flexibility and freedoms they deserve.
R. David Edelman is Senior Advisor for Internet, Innovation, & Privacy
Tell us what you think about this response and We the People.
Alright fair enough, good job guys!
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
Translation they agree but not really going to do much about it lol.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
santod040 said:
Who's laughing now!!!??
As I said before, it all starts with us guys.... :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I signed it also, and just got my e-mail like 35min ago.
I don't know if it will change anything short term, but if nothing else.... at least next time it comes up for review it should turn out more favorably. Hopefully they will step in and push through some intermediate legislation before the next scheduled review though.
Milimbar said:
I signed it also, and just got my e-mail like 35min ago.
I don't know if it will change anything short term, but if nothing else.... at least next time it comes up for review it should turn out more favorably. Hopefully they will step in and push through some intermediate legislation before the next scheduled review though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be nice, but would require Congress to stop bickering for more than a minute...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
I saw this and thought the same, what's this really going to accomplish? And then the posted article where it apparently did accomplish something. Seems like that's not always the case... But in general, I guess it's not a ton of effort to click in and sign an online petition, so if my one vote does almost-nothing-but-still-something, I guess the return on investment is slightly higher than what I get for typing a single forum post.
Although, if the law is meant to keep people from ditching their carrier and not paying their bill and having the phone "for free", there is the spot they're going to get on their credit when it goes to collections. Getting denied for credit or getting a worse rate for the next 7 years doesn't seem completely devoid of consequence.
Hey guys and gals, there's a petition floating around that everyone needs to sign. If you value the ability to unlock your device, you need to sign this. Let your voice be heard and keep this AOSP. XDA is a strong vast community of devs and noons alike. Don't let them take our rights.
http://www.androidauthority.com/mobile-phone-unlocking-petition-150925/
Thank You all very much:laugh:
I SIGNED
jbats said:
Hey guys and gals, there's a petition floating around that everyone needs to sign. If you value the ability to unlock your device, you need to sign this. Let your voice be heard and keep this AOSP. XDA is a strong vast community of devs and noons alike. Don't let them take our rights.
http://www.androidauthority.com/mobile-phone-unlocking-petition-150925/
Thank You all very much:laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i signed it man hope it helps we need to get this out more on different forums and such anything i can do to help
soldier1184 said:
i signed it man hope it helps we need to get this out more on different forums and such anything i can do to help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Repost to your social networks, start other threads, pass it along. If you don't voice your opinion, you can't moan when they get locked down. Look what Verizon just did with there recent update. Luckily we have Adam Outler in our arsenal of devs.
jbats said:
Hey guys and gals, there's a petition floating around that everyone needs to sign. If you value the ability to unlock your device, you need to sign this. Let your voice be heard and keep this AOSP. XDA is a strong vast community of devs and noons alike. Don't let them take our rights.
http://www.androidauthority.com/mobile-phone-unlocking-petition-150925/
Thank You all very much:laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Signed it a few minutes ago
Sent from my GT-P3110 using xda app-developers app
I just wanted to give my two cents on this issue. I'm not a nay-sayer and am not trying to say you shouldn't take action if you believe action is warranted.
My opinions on this issue are as follows.
1. Has anyone read any of the official 'white house' responses from other petitions? It's like they pay someone (not sure who but I would bet they make minimum wage) to give a 2 or 3 line comment to whatever you submit. So say this petition gets an additional 82,000 signatures... what's the official response going to be? "Thank you for your concern in this matter, however, the administration's official position is that modifying an item that you do not fully own adds a burden and cost to businesses when those modifications result in failure of said item. We will continue to evaluate this issue" or some BS.
2. This law isn't enforceable. You can't physically 'go after' people for their cell phones and prosecute them. There's just no manpower to do so. Next time you get pulled over for speeding is the cop going to see your cell phone in your car and ask to see it? How's he/she going to know it's unlocked without permission (or unlocked at all)?
3. Let this law stand... see where it goes... Imagine the fallout if carriers started sending warning texts to people who have supposedly illegally unlocked their phones! Imagine the lawsuits/bad publicity that would spawn against carriers for monitoring people's cell phones without their consent or knowledge! I guarantee there's nothing in anyone's cell contracts that would allow T-Mobile, AT&T, etc. the right to track and monitor usage of the device throughout the duration of your contract to insure the device isn't being tampered with or unlocked.
4. This is just political figures throwing their campaign contributor 'a bone' and another sad sign of just how bloated government is here. This law is no different than some of the other ridiculous digital copyright crap being spewed out.
5. Once your contract is up you are allowed to do whatever you wish to your phone. You can also get permission to have your device unlocked from your carrier at any time. I know of a few people that travel abroad and for them it was as simple as asking to be able to use another sim when they travel. If you have a good long standing account with your carrier they are very likely to comply (else they risk losing business).
None of this applies to flashing custom roms or the like (which will always void any warranty, etc.), just with carrier unlocking the phone.
anactoraaron said:
None of this applies to flashing custom roms or the like (which will always void any warranty, etc.), just with carrier unlocking the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right and I totally agree. I just recently got an i777 unlocked by simply calling the carrier(ATnT) and requesting it so I could use it with a prepaid network. The account was in good standing, all previous balance had been paid off.Voila
Trick was driving 45 mins to get a sim, because I told the carrier it was my phone(idiot), but my friend was happy.
So about ten days ago, the text of the TPP got finalised, and it's really bad for us and the rest of the Internet. Here's an excerpt taken from FFTF:
- Compel ISPs to take down websites without any sort of court order, just like SOPA. (Appendix Section I)
- Extend the US’s copyright regime to require copyrights stand for life plus 70 years, preventing anyone from using works that belong in the public domain. (Article QQ.G.6)
- Criminalize whistleblowing by extending trade secrets laws without any mandatory exemptions for whistleblowers or investigative journalists. (QQ.H.8)
- End anonymity online by forcing every domain name to be associated with a real name and address. (Article QQ.C.12)
- Make it illegal to unlock, modify, or generally tinker with a device you own. (Article QQ.G.10)
- Export the US’s broken copyright policies to the rest of the world without expanding any of the free speech protections, like fair use. (Article QQ.G.17)
The worst part is that this is just one of the TPP’s 30 chapters.
A link to do something about it: https://www.fightthetpp.org/
I didn't read anything about any of this..... And I can see carriers having some say if you got your device on a contract.... And even trying to enforce people not modify it....
But.... There's no way anyone has or will have control over what we do to a device we've paid for and own outright.
Sorry... But I smell conspiracy theory. When I own something, 100%....its mine. I can do what I please with it.
Nothing to fear here.
Edit: What I'm saying is that none of this will ever become reality. :good:
I found this article, which explains a bit on what the TPP will do.
https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp
While I could see this come to be. Good luck on them enforcing it. Other then locking the devices completely down they could never enforce it completely
Sure, they won't be able to control what you do to your device once you buy it. It's yours. You bought it. You can modify it to be the world's most expensive paperweight if you'd like.
But what they can do is limit whether your device can connect to their services and what it can and cannot do with those services. Want to hack your device 6 ways to Sunday? Go right ahead. But want it to be able to work on so and so's network? That's another story.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
ssenemosewa said:
Sure, they won't be able to control what you do to your device once you buy it. It's yours. You bought it. You can modify it to be the world's most expensive paperweight if you'd like.
But what they can do is limit whether your device can connect to their services and what it can and cannot do with those services. Want to hack your device 6 ways to Sunday? Go right ahead. But want it to be able to work on so and so's network? That's another story.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is what XDA is all about.... We'll find a way.
Darth said:
And that is what XDA is all about.... We'll find a way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen to that, Brother!
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
DecentM said:
So about ten days ago, the text of the TPP got finalised, and it's really bad for us and the rest of the Internet. Here's an excerpt taken from FFTF:
- Compel ISPs to take down websites without any sort of court order, just like SOPA. (Appendix Section I)
- Extend the US’s copyright regime to require copyrights stand for life plus 70 years, preventing anyone from using works that belong in the public domain. (Article QQ.G.6)
- Criminalize whistleblowing by extending trade secrets laws without any mandatory exemptions for whistleblowers or investigative journalists. (QQ.H.8)
- End anonymity online by forcing every domain name to be associated with a real name and address. (Article QQ.C.12)
- Make it illegal to unlock, modify, or generally tinker with a device you own. (Article QQ.G.10)
- Export the US’s broken copyright policies to the rest of the world without expanding any of the free speech protections, like fair use. (Article QQ.G.17)
The worst part is that this is just one of the TPP’s 30 chapters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this sounds like the premises for a super villain movie.. if this is a thing, why isn't it all over the news?
soraxd said:
if this is a thing, why isn't it all over the news?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because American media outlets and the people trying to push this bill don't want you to know about it. Look at every screwed up bill that's passed in the last few years and what was going on around that timeframe. Obama's administration passed a law saying a citizen could be held indefinitely and without cause at any sign of a respiratory illness, did you see that on the news? No. The media spotlight was focused on doctors in Africa catching Ebola. The Brady Bill was re-enacted, was that covered? Nope, instead they focused on Gay Marriage.
They aren't stupid, they know that if they give Americans a hot-button topic to argue over (gay marriage, immigration, etc...) they can sneak things through congress without so much as a whimper from the public. Add to that the fact that they use these "outbreaks" and media sensations to scare people and we literally ask them to remove our rights.
The news, like science, is bought and paid for by these outlets, industries and governments. They are all in bed with each other and it's all for monetary gain. Example: The FDA gets millions of dollars in "fees" with the submission of every new medicine/vaccine that is submitted. There is no fee associated with the submission of these items. Curiously though, they get pushed through. Big Pharm has a chicken pox vaccine, it lasts 10 years (approximately) and is in the list of required shots (which has more than quadrupled in length in the last decade). Chicken pox is now being touted as some horrible, deadly disease. It's a childhood disease that by itself doesn't cause any real harm, and grants you life-long immunity if you catch it, so why is a vaccine needed, especially if it only lasts for 10 years? Answer - $$$
Take measles for example. An "outbreak" of 60 cases, not a single one fatal, and your right to religious exemption from vaccination is taken away. This is so unconstitutional it's not even funny. Your basic human rights and the rights that were the founding premise of this country are being taken away from you daily, yet people question if this would ever come to fruition because it's not on the news...
People only get to see and know what they want them to see and know. So someone with money and a bone to pick decides that modding your phone is not good for their agenda, guess what? It'll be illegal and you probably won't know until it's too late and you're being penalized for it.
So true
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk