Related
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
EDIT:
I'm keeping my original post above, partly because there have been too many responses to make removing it reasonable, and partly because I'd like something to review the next time I decide to try and put my thoughts out there to the community.
I never imagined that I would draw so much criticism over this post. I honestly thought I did a pretty good job of making it apparent that I truly appreciate all of the developers' work. I'm a huge fan of the Android platform and of open source projects in general. Allow me to draw a poorly crafted and weak analogy, if I may:
I love my two-year old boy dearly. He's a fantastic kid and big bright spot in my life. He has asthma, and I really do hate providing his breathing treatments. It doesn't mean I'm not thankful for the technology that allows him to breathe, and I certainly wouldn't consider trading him in for a different model without such issues. I would, however, consider venting to other parents of an asthmatic child about how laborious the process of breathing treatments is, and how unfriendly it is towards children his age.
I'm not quite sure how I managed to come across as anti-open source, anti-developer, or at all unappreciative of our dedicated developers - but apparently that's exactly what I did, so for that I apologize. What is really awful is that with one well-intended post I feel that I have ostracized myself from a community that I thoroughly enjoy supporting.
So instead of being constructive... and building a ROM of your own or simply not using them, you're complaining? No one said you have to use them. No one said you have to update all the time.
Definitely not with you.
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
crayak said:
I think the fustration you're feeling is related to these only having being available to the masses for about 2 months. The modding community started with HTC phones, so they have the momentum. That being said the samsung community is making a lot of progress, and HTC/Samsung cross modding is in full swing. Be patient.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
You have a good point, and I have no problem waiting. I suppose I was just sharing my reflections.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
I share you feelings somewhat. Thats why I picked a ROM (Cognition 2.1.6) and will stick with it until Froyo officially drops for the Captivate. I also hate having to restore a phone after a flash which is why I choose not to do it often.
vbhines said:
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I actually agree here. But this is sort of Google's thing in a lot of areas. Google Wave, Google Buzz etc. Google MASTERS searching. And everything else they throw stuff on a wall and some sticks and some don't. I worried about that with Android from the very beginning. They often times release half finished products and then allow the devs to finish (or not in some cases) the future of the product/service.
By going to 100 different carriers in 100 different iterations google may very well stop caring about the polished product and just allow the devs to do the rest.
When I had my HTC Hero I had a Flash addiction. Now I just have decided to stick with one build and update it when updates happen. There have been quite a few VERY recent improvements. SetIron's kernel is a fine example. Stuff is happening at a much faster pace than it was when I got my phone 2 months ago. There are twice as many ROMS if not more. Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming. If we're lucky Froyo and Gingerbread will share the same kernel so porting IT won't be a big deal either.
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
rfarrah said:
FWIW, The Captivate hasn't been out anywhere near as long as the Incredible. Give the Devs some time - it can only get better.
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Click to collapse
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
bradasmith said:
I think his frustration is more that we have this incredible piece of hardware and the less than stellar job that Samsung has done to finish it off on the software side. If it wasn't for the devs/cookers I probably would have sold my Captivate by now, and I have only had it for 1 month, coming from a Milestone.
Samsung, hire some of these devs to fix your mess you call a kernel and os. Without the lagfixes from the devs this phone responds worse than my Milestone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Thank you for saying what I was trying to, but in far fewer words.
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
I have one issue with my phone, the GPS. While I'm mad it doesn't really work it's something I NEVER use. Other than that I'm running the latest Cognition rom and couldn't be happier.
gunnyman said:
.....Things are going blow wide open when Official Froyo and its source code drop. I think there was stagnent developing at first because we all knew Froyo was coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is 100% the reason. I fully expect that there will be some amazing things done and some great roms released.
I don't know if it was mentioned or not already but the reason why there are so many beta versions of roms and why newer versions open up issues is for the same reason as above, no source code available. So be patient and I promise you'll be kicking yourself for making this thread.
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
i dont think apple is really copying xfce. ..macosx versions are terminal based and therefor unix like and very similar to linux. x11 window environments have been around for many year. xfce doesn't offer that much that i know of that isn't in others window managers. it is possible that the developers on all sides are taking ideas from each other, but i think since power user often have a lot of shortcuts setup to get through common tasks faster that they are implementing some of these things as presets. similarities can just as easily similar minds overcoming very common problems. granted many developers may be running alternate os's and may be inspired by the other. not that i dont believe in corperate espionage i certainly do but i think a lot of things are just obvious solutions.
the problem with phones is that the manufacturers can lock us out and the locks can be difficult to break. you are right that google doesnt own the os but the manufacturers have proprietary source along side the source that they must release because it was taken from google. at some point it makes development dificult. i think we need an emphasis on aosp to build roms from. not because i like the google software, i find it plain and ugly, but because once aosp is figured out there is more understanding of how it all fits together and ports become easier.
i just cant wait to see the day when we can custom order aosp compatible hardware and build phones based on what our priorities are and what we can afford. i know we cant actually solder the boards our selves with surface mount but it could be done on an assembly line with robots if a manufacturer decided to use them to there full potential.
vbhines said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I had posted in "Captivate General", not "Captivate Troll." My mistake.
I have actually tried just about all the ROMs available. You may have noticed that I stated that this is not a Dev issue. I doubt many can do better than the talented developers we have here - I know I couldn't. Hell, even Samsung can't.
My point is that I think the Galaxy S line is a harbinger of things to come for Android. I hope I'm wrong, but as Android becomes increasingly mainstream, it also becomes increasingly less important to deliver function AND form.
The average consumer wants sexiness with phrases like "dual-core" listed in the specs, regardless of what the device can actually deliver.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with your more about your criticism about Samsung - but I'm not sure how this applies for Android as a whole. The closest thing you can say is Android fails to exclude poorly performing companies - but that's not much of a statement, is it?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Dani897 said:
the galaxy s phones might be the last of the phones not locked by the manufacturer. and i like the samsung software package but dislike that it only works if x or y componant is still there. i dont get the appeal of aosp for an every day rom but i get that it is a transition for porting other things, once we know what we need to make the phone work with aosp we can make it work with anything. and i think that people arent giving samsung enough credit for support on the device. the stock rom was buggy and jf7 came out and made things better, now we are waiting on froyo and im sure it will be better yet, if the the leaked copies are an indication then froyo should be quite good.
i think the multi step proceedures is dev preferance for clearing data, there have been roms that you can flash over and keep everything. the other issue is lagfixes which aren't available(or needed) on other devices. the lagfix is part of those oh sh!t moments where you need odin, also having odin available is another avenue for the devs. if we could only flash from recovery you would see alot more cockwork flashable roms that are compatable with multiple lagfixes.
i messed with an evo and really got an apreciation for samsung, i felt the evo was of low build quality and that odin flashing a rooted rom is much more convenient than the rage against the cage meathod of adb pushing files and rooting and recovery flashing. rooting a galaxy s is rediculously easy, just an update.zip, or an one click app on the phone, or a one click app on a pc. or for froyo a 3click kernel flash in odin then an update.zip. or flashing a rooted rom with odin.
i have made many noob mistakes and taken risks and got it running every time. i dont know about the incredible but i think with some other devices i would have either bricked or pulled all my hair out fixing it.
i was in the airforce and one thing that people always said was that the two best bases are the one you last came from and the next one you are going to. people were always telling stories about "back in kirkland...." and "when i get to misawa..." but people were always complaining about there current base. i have a fealing that in year or two when we have new phones we will see many thing we hate about those as well. and if we had motorolas we'd hate those and if we had incredibles we see the galaxy s playing asphalt 5 from samsung apps and be like if only my phone could do 3d like that one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GreenWolf70 said:
I am not a programmer, just a user with some technical expertise, but I love these open source OS's. I jumped on Linux as soon as MS Vista came out and the improvements and leaps forward by that community on the desktops has been amazing. When I opened a Win7 PC for the first time, I realized Microsoft is now copying Linux, not the other way around. Just last week I looked at the new MAC OS and I wanted to scream that they were ripping off the XFCE GUI in Linux. Linux is leading the way in Netbooks now and embedded devices are now a focus. If you have ever flashed a router with Tomato, or one of the other Linux router OS's, you know what amazing things routers are now capable of. And then we have smart phones and make no mistake, Android is just Linux in a smart phone. We don't have to deal with a proprietary systems from MS or Apple, where you only get what they hand out to you. This is Burger King baby, you get it your way. Google may be the name on this open source OS, but it belongs to us all. Google can not take this OS proprietary. Yet any time we, the people, wish we can spin off another branch of development with those things we want. OS's like Meego (and I'm sure there will be others) should be able to be ported over, if we wish, in the near future. We may be looking at an era where we can truly buy the smart phone of our choice, install our OS of choice and choose our carrier of choice with ease.
Bottomline here is you can help. If you are not a dev, or a programmer, you can still contribute to this by continuing to use these builds, and report bugs, and you can contribute money to any of the open source efforts, particularly in areas where you want to see more effort. You don't have to sit on the side lines anymore and just whine about how you are getting the short end of the stick by the big corporations. Open Source belongs to us all, take ownership.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EsotericPunk said:
This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum. What a great insight into the evolution of the smartphone, it damn near brought a tear to my eye and sure as hell made me proud to be an owner and defender of the ideal of Open Source. Sure, my Captivate isn't perfect, but I continue to try new ROM's and use my technical proficiency to try and reason out any bugs so as to provide useful feedback. In turn, these ROM's continue to get better and everyone profits.
I love you guys... *group hug*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said Androiders!
+10
Then go wait on the sidelines for a cyanogen port. We, galaxy s phone owners. Don't and won't need huge steps beyond what we have. Your expectations are limited to what your old phone needed to perform.
You are right its silly. And unnecessary. Find a new hobby if porting roms isn't doing it for you.
vbhines said:
First, let me say up front that I have the utmost respect for the developers in the Captivate forum. It's a handicapped device that has much more potential than I think we'll ever be able to tap, simply because there isn't much motivation for Samsung to fix its biggest issues. Let's face it: The things we like most about our favorite Android handsets are precisely the things that make them seem "too complex" to the non non-technical general public. I think that the Galaxy S line has been a huge dissapointment to enthusiasts, and a big "ooh, ahh" for the iPhone-types.
That being said, let me move on to my main gripe: Through my Droid Incredible, I fell in love with flashing ROMs. If it had a higher build number, I flashed it. And you know why? Because it was better a better build. Newer baseband versions fixed more problems than it caused. I could flash ROMs on a train versus needing to be at my desktop for an exhaustive multi-step shamble. And when ROMs were released from build to build, developers in general knew what to expect as far as results.
I simply can't say that that's true with the Captivate. I'm growing increasingly frustrated with this phone and it's idiocy. I hate having ROMs with "Beta 9.3.5" after their title. I hate that half of the releases are to take out some Samsung crap, replace it with some AOSP-like goodness, just to see what sticks.
Again, it's not a condemnation of the Devs. They have made this phone tolerable, which is no small task. I just think it's a sad state of affairs when an OS based on an open source foundation has been so brutally slapped together that it makes a phone with the looks and hardware specs of a Ferrari about as much fun to own and maintain as a Yugo.
Who's with me on this one?
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Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Greeting to fellow developers,
First thing's first: I'm a programmer, experienced in Java, C,C++ (mainly MSVS, unix/linux), and a few other (i.e. no longer fashionable) programming languages ... And I'm planning to start developing Android based Apps. Currently I'm in the phase of selecting the most suitable phone for my future endeavours.
The Question: What is the best, most suitable, Android phone which fulfils following criteria:
[1] is based on Android OS
[2] has a front-facing, i.e. secondary, camera. This is a must (!!!)
[3] is suitable for development & testing front-facing camera Apps. A must (!!!)
[4] would also be suitable for development of other Apps
[5] phone has to have a company promise of at least 12 months of security updates and updates on newer Android OS vers. (Due to ongoing developing, App debugging, etc.)
Where I come from (Slovenia-land) following are the phones which are available and achieve upper five features: Samsung Galaxy S, Samsung Galaxy S 2, Samsung Nexus S, HTC Sensation, HTC Desire S, LG Optimus 2X, Samsung I8000 Omnia II, .... (These are all phones available through telecommunications companies - i.e.: by investing into a 24 month usage plan. There's also a few other, promised, scheduled to be pushed on the market, phones. But without any certain launch dates, there's no point in me mentioning them!)
What I'm looking for is an advice from seasoned developers, who are / were already developing front-facing-camera Apps, which Android phone is best for me to buy (to be used for a whole App life-cycle: learning, developing, testing, updating)? Due to Android phone fragmentation this choice is really mind-boggling me, and is very difficult for me to make, and I would really not like to buy two or more phones right from the head-start. - For the past few months I've been reading a lot about Android development, and the thing that frightens me most is Android fragmentation. The way I understand negative effects of this fragmentation is: Let's say I develope an App, which exploits some front-facing-camera functionality (like a new skype, fring, or sth. like that), and start marketing it on various Android App Markets. Which phone is best for me to buy, to be able to avoid, those "doesn't work on my htc", "doesn't work on my gingerbread SGS", etc. negative Customer Experience and Evaluations? ... In short: I'd like to buy an Android phone w/ an Android OS, that would ensure me a developed App on that phone, is giving me confidence and peace of mind, that my App will work on all, or at least most, front-cam Android phones. I'm looking for an advice on which phone to invest in, so that my developed App will work on all, or at least most, Android 2.3.* (or later ver.) phones?
Currently I'm rooting for a Nexus S, but have read a few negative evaluations about them on Cnet and Google Customer Support forums . And I'd really not like to buy a $600 phone, which front camera or Wi-Fi doesn't even work the way it's supposed to! ...
I hope I'm not asking sth. that's not even remotely possible? And most certainly I hope I'm not shooting goats? ... Like I said, I am experienced in desktop Java, linux, etc. development, ... but the World of Android development is totally new for me! But I don't the have money to buy all of the latest front camera Android Phones out there.
I've searched this forums extensively, but found no answer to my thoughts and questions! I've also asked on fellow developer forums, got a few weak answers, but no strong ones. As You can see, I have a few blind spots in my knowledge ... And hopefully w/ Your help, I can fill these spots!
Thank You very much for any advice!
-- Lucky Star
Anyone? ... .. I'm just looking for an advice on which front-cam Android phone is best for me to buy for development purpose (to ensure that my App will work on all Android 2.3.* phones, i.e. best phone to fight Android fragmentation) ... Any kind of advice will do.
Thank you for your help.
Have a nice day,
-- Lucky Star
I think your best choice is the Nexus S as it is the official Google puppy and very easy to develop for.
Why is the Nexus S, as you say, "very easy to develop for"? - Is the development process on e.g.: SGS2 more difficult than Nexus S? They are using same OS, same SDK. SGS2 only has different UI.
2nd Question: How do I ensure my developed Apps on, let's say, Nexus S will indeed work on all, or at least most, front-cam Android 2.3.* phones?
Thanks for any and all advice!
Keep em' coming!
-- Lucky Star
+1 i am i also seekin a good suggestion
Bump ...
Come on people ... There must be some enthusiast on XDA developing Apps and exploring Android's FFC functionalities?
Still in search for a good advice ...
Many thanks!
Sgs 2.
Sent from SGS Captivate CM7 or MIUI with Escapist orTKGlitch using XDA premium app.
I'm much like several of the people who bought TouchPads in the recent firesale. I absolutely love WebOs and the device in general but the thing that's bothering me is that the app selection is absolutely horrible! I know that there is an Android App Emulator on the PlayBook, is it possible for something like that to show up on the TouchPad? I love WebOS and I don't really want to give it up for only Android. I'm sure tons of people would really like something like this on their new Touchpads. Thanks!
Sounds like a great idea hmm...
I agree. I think that porting Dalvik to WebOS might be the best move to give us the Android apps and still let us easily use Linux, including ubuntu apps.
Well the problem would be the license..
lol...good point
license issues?
I thought it was opensource/freeware? How else could Cyanogen, etc., do what they do?
is it possible to port alien dalvik to the TouchPad? We should get some developers on this.
FAILHARD said:
is it possible to port alien dalvik to the TouchPad? We should get some developers on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You took the words right out of my mouth!!
I'm actually trying to find developers for the exact same thing. It should be doable. Alien Dalvik was made in Qt which was ported to WebOS so in theory it's entirley doable. the only question is if there are any developers free to take it on that aren't currently working on a full Android OS port.
I'd really like to get a development team set up for this because alot of people would like to keep WebOS and just have a larger app catalog.
Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. We should look for a dev who could possibly have experience it Qt, though that's not completely necessary. If we gain more support, I'll post a dev thread.
I can't offer anything other than Beer/Pizza money but this is a great idea. WebOS is generally well reviewed and not looked at as a problem so much as a benefit. The OS is solid. The App Catalog is not.
Android Emulator :-D
I would love see a emulator on my TP. I would like to be able to place Android on the device I still much prefer the UI and design on WebOS even though Android is far more capable.
I'm happy to donate to this cause should someone take it up
alien dalvik is not open source, however, dalvik in general as well as the whole android os is under the apache license, this can be modified, forked and reworked (such as myriad turbo/alien dalvik) without having to release the source, its obviously possible... But you know what would be easier, porting android as a whole... Even dual booting would be easier.
Well the allure of this is having the superior Android app selection on the arguably better tablet experience of WebOS. If that were made possible - I wouldn't care about having Android on the device.
I couldn't agree more. As an OG Pre owner I love webOS but couldn't fight everything I can do with Android.
If I could get all my Android apps and keep my TP the way it is would be perfect.
The problem with porting Android right now is we have to use 2.3 which is for phones and not 3.2. I would rather either wait for ICS/4.0 for a port or just get the app market working.
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That settles it there are enoght people interested in having a standalone WebOs android app emulator without having full android.. I'm starting a development thread, doing some preliminary work, and going to look for a few interested developers to work with on getting this going. My touchpad comes tomorrow so then i can really get into it..
Thanks Roto I was just about to do the same.
also, Roto post a link
Up. Beer on me
Here is the link to the development thread.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=16904876#post16904876
Failhard since you and I were the first to put in work on this idea i'd like you to help me head the project and find volunteer talent if you're up to it.
I took a look into what goes into a Dalvik port... it's TOTALLY doable just a matter of time and effort..
Unfortunately after i return to college in a week time will be in short supply for me so ALL help is appreciated!
I had never used WebOS before getting a tablet this last weekend. I have been an android fan for smartphones for now (I am willing to move to something better when it is available, otherwise stick to what works). I am a web designer/user interface designer and since starting using WebOS this last weekend, when it comes to the OS and its default apps that come with it, it is clear WebOS has the best user interface of the tablets (I used both iOS and Android OSes 1.5-3.2, Windows 7 tablets don't really count as a tablet OS and that is clear when using it on tablets).
The Android Emulator would be a great idea, but if you want quick development specifically for WebOS, we need to get a program created that can easily and painlessly port android apps to WebOS apps. Also it will take HP courting and reassuring the big players like Netflix, Hulu, Corporate IT Software Development companies that WebOS is viable and have continued support.
HP/WebOS only has a short amount of time to really establish itself. Next summer is rumored to be Windows 8 release and Windows 8 tablets coming. If Windows 8 can create a good tablet interface (WebOS is the one to beat imo atm as it has the number 1 interface), plus it's strong backing of games, program/application support and being able to integrate phone, xbox, tablet, and PC (Desktops and Laptops). Windows 8 is the biggest threat to anyone in the tablet market at the moment imo and they have been very successful in many of their endeavors as of late ("don't poke the sleeping giant" comes to mind, google and Apple have done that).
Due this short Window of time (pun partially intended), we have to establish WebOS as a main competitor to Google and Apple and prepare it for the onslaught of Windows 8. We need to work as a community to get things rolling and we need to push HP to court the big players in the industry to produce apps and content for WebOS and to continue further development on the operating system on their end. If we as a community and HP execute right, it will be a very exciting year coming up.
Hi All,
I troll XDA daily constantly flashing new ROM's for my different Android devices and trying to keep up to date with latest news gor this platform. I have attempted to play around with the Android SDK and find it a little difficult to get acclimated in. I am also picking up a WP7 device to begin to play around with and I have heard that WP7 is easier to learn to code for than Android.
As far as my background, when I was younger I was a novice in Visual Basic, C, and had experimented a bit with Java. I just want to start from the ground up. So what do you recommend and why? Also what would be some good books / websites to give a good starting point into learning to code for the platform.
Thanks in Advance for the help!
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I can't tell you about iOS (iPhone) but comparing Android to Windows Phone, I would say you should take a look at WP.
It's got great free development tools and you can basically reuse a great deal of code in other desktop/web projects.
Getting started - create.msdn.com/en-us/education/basics/developer_resources
The only bad thing is that the whole developer registration is a bit more complicated (it's also not free for everyone) and there can be problems if your country is not supported. If you are a student and live in a "supported" country you can get the membership for free.
I had heard that Windows Phone 7 was extremely easy to use. I appreciate the feedback and the link. Currently WP7 is at the to of my list.
Anyone else?
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Hello after hearing about apple reaching 500 billion dollar, my question is what does android need to do to become a serious competitor to apple so that people would rather buy android then an iphone? What does apple have in the iPhone and ipad that android dosent? I would like to see some opinions of what you all think thanks
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Apple has always been the underdog lol Android is still new so it will be at the top in due time.
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reaper24 said:
Apple has always been the underdog lol Android is still new so it will be at the top in due time.
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Well in phones I meant ever since the iPhone came out and iPad everyone is going crazy about there products, I'm not sure why when they have no where near the selection of android
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Android users need Watson, that would literally kick the $*it out of siri. I mean that would be amazing- doctors, researchers in the field, really just anyone in the sciences could use it and the average person could enjoy it as well as learn from it. Android is the perfect channel to reach all sectors and the general public with such a new and really amazing technology.
MunkinDrunky said:
Android users need Watson, that would literally kick the $*it out of siri. I mean that would be amazing- doctors, researchers in the field, really just anyone in the sciences could use it and the average person could enjoy it as well as learn from it. Android is the perfect channel to reach all sectors and the general public with such a new and really amazing technology.
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Yes the technology is far past apple, in my opinion android will be the future, I try to write what I imagine in the future of technology but I can't put it in words
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I see Android the same way I do Linux. It will attract the true techies but but for the average user it will not appeal to theme as it takes to much work to get it just right and most people are just to lazy
IMHO is the main difference between android and iOS, that android is more customizable and, with that, its more complicated. So, most people who only want to have a working phone which is looking good and don't want to learn anything bout software will buy an iPhone. Because its simpler.
I think android will be catshing up with apple, because it's only getting better, it is open source, the phones is cheaper and more options to change the apperence of the phone!
Why, isn't it the number one OS yet?
Hey thank you all for your replies, I was at best buy couple week ago and a person was looking to buy a android tablet or an ipad 2, I was next to the person when I was playing with a tablet and he asked me do you no what is better? Ipad 2 or this tablet? (He was looking at the Asus transformer) I told him Asus was, but he end up buying the ipad because his Droid phone always get a virus, freezes and so now he thinks all android are like that....if he only knew
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Android311 said:
Hello after hearing about apple reaching 500 billion dollar, my question is what does android need to do to become a serious competitor to apple so that people would rather buy android then an iphone? What does apple have in the iPhone and ipad that android dosent? I would like to see some opinions of what you all think thanks
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Click to collapse
You can't entirely confuse profits with marketshare (which Android has 51% of, I think they were saying). Apple is able to get away with a higher price markup for lesser specs because
0) low price elasticity - iSheep will continue to buy and to rationalize their mother company no matter what
1) they're facing no competition from other, similar iPhone makers, unlike android makers who compete with each other in both specs and price
2) they slice down anything that even vaguely resembles competition with lawsuits (even where they're clearly not making iPhones)
3) the brand itself has become so hyped that it's able to continue to get new users - I guess you could count this as marketing
They still have a much greater stranglehold on the pad market, so a lot of the profits probably come from that.
Finally, if you believe this post at least, Apple is able to squeeze more profits from the way our carriers and subsidies work. Nowadays, it's standard for the carrier to bundle phones along with their services, in a dual-pay system (the carrier "subsidizes" part of the phone cost in exchange for a contract). Because of Apple's particular market power (users might switch to another carrier if the other has iPhone and they don't), they are able to demand that carriers subsidize more while taking away the profits. That way, they make more money without directly charging the buyers. Indirectly, of course, the carriers probably pay for this through increased fees in general, which means that everyone ends up sponsoring the iPhone.
In other words, they've successfully managed to implement an "iPhone tax". Isn't bundling the greatest thing ever?
As for how to make Android better, updates and better phone compatibility is definitely an issue. ICS, for example, needed to be available quickly for multiple devices as soon as it's released. There really is no way to do this, except.. release it earlier. Have a completely open beta, like the Linux kernel, so that everyone can get compatibility working from day -100 onwards. If flashiness (and non-copying by Apple) is an issue, at least give the manufacturers early access to it, so that they're able to start working on device compatibility right away.
Meanwhile, unfettered by bureaucracy, custom roms are churning out faster than any manufacturer ever could. You could have updates and features faster than you ever thought possible; the average user, however, doesn't know enough, or isn't confident enough to go through the installation process. Google should include an easy ROM installer/backup utility by default. That way, the users get a full taste of the speed and power of openness, which really is so intoxicating that they'll never go back to a closed system ever again.
(They could even put start posting up their own custom ROMs! Imagine what their developers could do, unhindered by the megacompany issues. We would have updates, the like of which we've never seen before.)
If Android was optimized to run perfectly on one core just like Windows Phone 7 than I can see a lot of people using it. When I talk to Android users who don't know anything about custom roms/root they complain about force closes and applications not working. Also how there phone slows down.
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Yeah, agree with two posts above... The slow spread of Android 4.0 is only good for Apple, the big companies should realize that they're depending on the users liking android, and you will not get them to like Android with refusing to give them updates. Sometimes I think they are not able to look into the nearer future to see what's necessary for them...
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great info everyone yes I do notice a bit of a slow down on android 4.0 but I'm on a single core device, hopefully by summer they can find a solution to make android 4.0 more stable and better performance, I feel that the android team is working fast to come up with a software that would bring iPhone users to android, but when iPhone 5 comes out I hope some android phone company's have something up there sleeve that will be able to compete with apple
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*bumping up
Right now there on the right path to becoming number one in the market, what i think they need to do to become number one.
all official releases of android to be the same across all phones, things like TouchWiz to be scraped altogether
moderation on the market to stop useless buggy apps from making the market look bad
an android OS for desktops/laptops that will run consumer products
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Better hardware acceleration on all applications.
I think that iPhone as an advantage : there is only one model.
So you can find dock for desktop, car, audio, ...
Android is only the softwar and each constructor have to make is own accessories and so on.
In my opinion, one major problem of Android devices is about fragmentation.. I hope that Android OEMs can release updates for all devices faster.
mikebzh44 said:
I think that iPhone as an advantage : there is only one model.
So you can find dock for desktop, car, audio, ...
Android is only the softwar and each constructor have to make is own accessories and so on.
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Click to collapse
Yes that's true but there is more money to be made in the android market rather then the iPhone. There are ALOT of brands and generics that make the same accessorizes for the iPhone and each brand is struggling to make money when they all make the same product, unlike android. Verity is better