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Buyers Beware...T-Mobile Phones

If you guys don't know T-Mobile has started blacklisting IMEIs of devices with unpaid accounts, stolen devices etc
I've seen a few threads with people saying their phone randomly stopped working one day, the SIM wouldn't pick up signal. There is a few things that could have happened, since SIM cards do go bad. But if it's a phone you bought on Craigslist/eBay/BST forum etc beware you can get screwed down the road. If someone gets a phone on one of the new value plans and decides to cancel service after selling the device and it goes unpaid you will have a brick. If they don't cancel service and sell the phone, then report it stolen, you will have a brick. There is MANY scenarios, people things oh hey this phone is $200, I can sell it for $450 and cancel the line and I've made $250...well the end user will now have a no longer working phone. that's just the start of it.
Just beware when buying phones online, this has always been the case for Sprint/Verizon...but now T-Mobile has started doing the same. not sure about AT&T since I don't have personal experience with them about blacklisting IMEI.

I don't see how this would affect say an att user. They can just sim unlocked the phone and use it
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium

I might be wrong here, but isn't the signal sent to the SIM? If the IMEI is never actually attached to your line (in the system) theoretically it still wouldn't matter. i.e. I found a Blackberry and decided I would try the $50 TMO prepaid deal. I stopped by the store and bought a SIM but didn't have the phone with me. He said no problem, activated the SIM and sent me on my way and the BB worked.

is this even legal? aren't the phones on contract technically provided as a 'free gift' and therefore property of the buyer from day one?

lawrence750 said:
is this even legal? aren't the phones on contract technically provided as a 'free gift' and therefore property of the buyer from day one?
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I believe it is legal. You first have to realize there is no such thing as a 'free' or 'subsidized' phone. You either pay full price upfront or in payments via the monthly service charge. One way or another, providers are gonna get the phone paid for. T-Mobile is the only major US provider that offers cheaper rates if you own your phone.
But...if you get a phone 'free' or 'subsidized' you have to think of it as similar to financing a car. You get to use the car but the bank has a financial interest in it - actually contractually owns it - until you pay it off. That's why they can legally repossess it if you fail to pay. Similarly, until you fulfill your service contract or pay the exit fee the provider has a financial interest in the phone, and by contract, certain legal rights.
Not a perfect analogy but I hope it makes things clearer.
Registered Linux user #266531. Android user since v1.0.

chibixzero said:
I don't see how this would affect say an att user. They can just sim unlocked the phone and use it
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
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I don't think the SIM will work if the imei is blocked. sIm lock Is totally dIfferent to ImeI block. Imei is how the phone gets it signal. It identifies the handset(not the SIM).
If an imei is blocked in UK then it will not work on any network in UK, but it will work on networks in other countries as there is not an international imei data base there are only national one at the minute. It is not 100% certain to work in another country but it would more than likely work. But for instance O2 in UK is owned by Spanish company Telefonica so an o2 phone blocked by imei may not work in Spain and vice versa.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

It is possible to change the imei number of a phone, but I know in the UK it IS ILLEGAL to do this.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

Very informative
It's unfortunate that sometimes people are dishonest or unethical even more so when selling anonymously through the internet.
As always in purchasing toys, do your homework and if a deal seems to good to be true..... it probably is.

Thebeast715 said:
It's unfortunate that sometimes people are dishonest or unethical even more so when selling anonymously through the internet.
As always in purchasing toys, do your homework and if a deal seems to good to be true..... it probably is.
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Very very true:thumbup:
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

gavmac said:
It is possible to change the imei number of a phone, but I know in the UK it IS ILLEGAL to do this.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
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It is in the states as well
Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2

Wow,so att the one company that doesnt practice this
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium

[Q] Selling ATT HTC OneXL Internationally?

I'm looking to sell my ATT Htc OneXL and have had inquiries from overseas (currently I'm in the US). If I sell this to someone overseas, as is (no unlocked anything etc) will it still be able to work in whichever country they're in with a sim card they buy (I know LTE isn't available abroad)? And if that's not the case, will unlocking it via the new 2.20 exploit method, allow someone to use it overseas? Thanks!

shankinstuff said:
I'm looking to sell my ATT Htc OneXL and have had inquiries from overseas (currently I'm in the US). If I sell this to someone overseas, as is (no unlocked anything etc) will it still be able to work in whichever country they're in with a sim card they buy (I know LTE isn't available abroad)? And if that's not the case, will unlocking it via the new 2.20 exploit method, allow someone to use it overseas? Thanks!
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It "can" work on other carriers sim cards but it must first be sim-unlocked which most not be confused with the bootloader unlocked that you refered to as the new 2.20 exploit. ATT will sim-unlock your device for free if your account with them is in good standing, and there are other sites that will sim-unlock your device for a small fee. The 2.20 exploit has nothing to do with the sim card though.

In isolated cases, some people have been having trouble getting the SIM unlocked from paid unlocking services. If that is the case for the foreign buyer, they are going to be dissatisfied, and probably seek a return/refund, even if you state in the terms of the transaction that the phone is sold as-is and SIM locked. You would still be in the right to refuse a return, but its going to result in a pissed-off buyer, nonetheless. Not a position I would want to be in, personally. Plus, I would think that there would be enough interest from US buyers, that you would not have to hassle with a foreign sale. Especially once you add in the cost of shipping to a foreign location.
And as already mentioned, root and bootloader unlock do not get you SIM unlock. Might be possible with S-Off, but that has not yet been achieved. There is no way to get SIM unlock, aside from AT&T or paid services.

ImagioX1 said:
It "can" work on other carriers sim cards but it must first be sim-unlocked which most not be confused with the bootloader unlocked that you refered to as the new 2.20 exploit. ATT will sim-unlock your device for free if your account with them is in good standing, and there are other sites that will sim-unlock your device for a small fee. The 2.20 exploit has nothing to do with the sim card though.
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Thanks for the info. I'm in good standing with ATT so hopefully they'll allow me to sim-unlock it. Thanks again

redpoint73 said:
In isolated cases, some people have been having trouble getting the SIM unlocked from paid unlocking services. If that is the case for the foreign buyer, they are going to be dissatisfied, and probably seek a return/refund, even if you state in the terms of the transaction that the phone is sold as-is and SIM locked. You would still be in the right to refuse a return, but its going to result in a pissed-off buyer, nonetheless. Not a position I would want to be in, personally. Plus, I would think that there would be enough interest from US buyers, that you would not have to hassle with a foreign sale. Especially once you add in the cost of shipping to a foreign location.
And as already mentioned, root and bootloader unlock do not get you SIM unlock. Might be possible with S-Off, but that has not yet been achieved. There is no way to get SIM unlock, aside from AT&T or paid services.
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Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm in good standing with ATT (as far as I know) and would prefer to get it sim-unlocked on my end before shipping it overseas just so the buyer has no problems with it.
I've had a hard time finding a US buyer. I've posted the phone on Swappa and Craigslist. Lots of looks but no real interest it seems like. If you can recommend some other places I might be able to try and sell it, I would appreciate it. Thanks for the info none the less!

I think 11/06/2012 is the date AT&T will officially start to allow the One X to be sim unlocked (by them for free). AT&T Customer care will let you know for sure. The online unlocking guys do it for less than $5 if you don't have luck with AT&T or don't have the patience to wait for them. Price is the key factor in selling anything, if priced right it will go fast. Priced poorly and it will linger with little interest.

shankinstuff said:
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm in good standing with ATT (as far as I know) and would prefer to get it sim-unlocked on my end before shipping it overseas just so the buyer has no problems with it.
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AT&T may or may not give the SIM unlock code to you. Technically, they don't need to give it to you for a period of 10 months after the phone was released (May 2012) per their policy. But have given the code for some devices after 6 months (which is right about now). Some people have already gotten the code for the One X. Being a long time customer, and multiple lines may have been a factor. There is really no guarantee. But certainly doesn't hurt to ask.
shankinstuff said:
I've had a hard time finding a US buyer. I've posted the phone on Swappa and Craigslist. Lots of looks but no real interest it seems like. If you can recommend some other places I might be able to try and sell it, I would appreciate it.
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eBay. Lots more exposure than Craigslist (just going to get local attention), and I've never even heard of Swappa. Maybe I'm just out of the loop about that website. But everyone has heard of eBay.
Looks like some really good activity on eBay for the AT&T One X. Not surprising, since its a great phone still. Not sure what you expect to get. But it looks like lots of AT&T One X's going for $200-300 with time still left in the auctions (depending on condition).

I called and 11/6/12 is the end of the att HTC one x exclusive thingy. This was two weeks ago but my phone was already unlocked when it arrived.
Sent from my One X

Cell phone unlocking illegal?

Yup, it's true.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-unlocking-cell-phones-legal/1g9KhZG7
Sent from Spaceball One.

Heard it on NPR
What's the point to asking US companies to unlock our phones. What if I have an international phone which they don't supply therefore they don't have the IMEI or unlock code on them.

I live in Europe so this doesn't affect me in any way, but I still hope they don't get enough signed petitions.

Unlocking phones is illegal now, what about the second hand market?

I was just reading an Engadget post about how unlocking a carrier locked phone is illegal now, in the US anyway. It was long, but really didn't answer the question I had. I am on T-mobile with no contract and like to switch phones every few months. My most frequent stop for phones is eBay, although recently I've gotten unlocked phones from Amazon and Newegg as well. On eBay, I usually buy a locked carrier version (usually At&t) because they are usually cheaper than straight unlocked ones (carrier branded) and much cheaper than international unlocked ones. Then I buy an unlock code from eBay for a few bucks and voila. For some phones that are carrier exclusive or have no international variant yet, this is the only way to get them.
Does this new rule apply to me? I'm thinking no since it is second hand after all and I'm not the one who signed the contract, but they are vague about second-hand unlocking. I also sell my phone on eBay once I'm done using it.

I think of you as you are to unlock the phone which actually was first locked.
This is my opinion, now expect others to comment on

I think as long as the original contract has been satisfied it doesn't matter.

ruangle you
This is so Verizon,Contact phones and other junk. I have a unlocked phone from ebay on simple mobile which is gsm can use it anywhere in the world and no contract, I just rooted my sisters new S3 on the same phone carrier its under contract,lets see what happens I dont expect anything its my phone in so many words as long as I pay the bill Right ?

xtnelson said:
This is so Verizon,Contact phones and other junk. I have a unlocked phone from ebay on simple mobile which is gsm can use it anywhere in the world and no contract, I just rooted my sisters new S3 on the same phone carrier its under contract,lets see what happens I dont expect anything its my phone in so many words as long as I pay the bill Right ?
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As i know in europe and maybe also in US it is not illegal to unlock your phone - if you have no contract anymore with any provider !
Because it's "YOUR PHONE" and if you make the choice to cut it in small slices - why not - it is yours (when paid) !
But one decision - you have to unlock yourself - as i know it is not allowed by companies in US !

I read the actual text of the decision and it's pretty clearly spelled out (and not even that long). Sorry to be that guy. :silly:

Yeah I have no idea what some of you people are talking about. Or understand the Engrish. The phone is sold to an end user and the software is also licensed to them. This is the relationship between the carrier and the user entering a contract. However, I don't buy direct from the carrier or sign any contracts. Thus, I am not a license holder at all. Furthermore, the ruling allows for "legacy" devices to be unlocked and sold. Legacy device would be loosely understood as second hand, basically what I am buying and unlocking.

delete

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-unlocking-cell-phones-legal/1g9KhZG7
They'll have to respond to this issue now so hopefully it gets changed and you won't have to worry.

how to other country?

If you have the carrier unlock it, it is not illegal.
If you use your upgrade to get a cheaper phone with a contract and then use a 3rd party SIM unlocker to use on another carrier then it IS illegal.
Start with asking the carrier it is locked by for an unlock code

Do not buy used phones: you are powerless!

So I know this type of discussion isn't really related to developing but since this forum was basically THE Android forum for me, I would like to get the word out here. I don't want another victim like me to happen; I hope this will help any future phone buyers from falling into the trap I did. This is going to be a long story but I hope I can clear up all this confusion about used phones, so strap in!
I bought an iPhone 4S last year from a guy on Craigslist; he offered to meet at an AT&T store to verify the clean IMEI and this action alone made me go against my gut instincts, which were telling me this guy looked kind of sketch. He was a white male in his late thirties, pot belly and dressed really sloppily; also had a slight hunch. But you can't judge a book by it's cover right? His story was that this was his wife's iPhone and that he sold his own a few days ago because he wanted a Samsung Galaxy S3; the phone had one more year on-contract and came with the original box so I knew it wasn't stolen. I gave him my $400 after inspecting the phone and left. Fast-forward to this week...
The phone was given to my dad to use on AT&T a month ago; I used the phone on T-Mobile for almost a year and nothing unusual came up. Just two weeks ago, my dad started getting messages saying "This device has been blocked from network use. Please call your service provider..." Not making much of it or even feeling any panic because I was that naive, I thought to myself "no way the previous owner would call in a year later to blacklist his phone. Who would even do that?" I called AT&T and after an hour, the representative was getting annoyed and said "I'll open up a case; wait three days." Three days pass and I had no word from them; I called in again and after another hour l found out my case was closed and got transferred to the supervisor. To sum up what he said: the phone was fine on T-Mobile until it was registered in the AT&T system, the owner can block a phone years down the line because the "30 days since it's loss" translates to "30 days since it's last been used by ANYONE," and that even if I have proof I bought the phone, only the original owner can remove it from the blacklist. So wireless carrier's have this huge hole in their policy that creates victims for people who buy phones secondhand and they honestly don't give a crap because it earns them money. I asked "so there is NOTHING to protect people like me? You can't even tell the police who this guy is?" He brushed me off and told me to call the police and open up a case, even if the police do get involved though, he said their company will stay quiet.
So I ended the call, speechless and dumbfounded. Lost, confused, and frustrated, I went to the police station in my city, but it turns out I lived outside the city limits so I had to call a dispatcher in another county; after the short conversation, the dispatcher told me to wait for an officer to call. The straightforward police officer, being much more friendly and understanding than the people at AT&T told me "since the phone wasn't actually stolen, it's a civil issue; the only thing you can do is try to find this guy and take it to court. We don't get involved in these kinds of matter. I know it's tough to accept but the wireless companies just want profit and this policy that creates victims like you gets them what they want. This happens all the time and us police officers can't do anything about it. I'm sorry for your loss and I really wish I could help but this is the truth; you're left to your own devices now. Whenever you buy a phone secondhand YOU TAKE A HUGE RISK!" I'm hung-up the the phone in a better mood than I was because someone actually had sympathy for what had happened to me. Left here with just an e-mail address, I knew there was no hope of finding this guy; this person that was a criminal in a moral sense, and yet was not in a legal sense. What this guy did, the police officer said it's COMPLETELY LEGAL!
So the best I could do was go on Craigslist again and find someone who wanted a phone with a bad IMEI for parts or use overseas; I guess luck and karma were on my side and this guy quickly responded, wanting to buy the phone for $200. It turns out he worked for a company that fixes phones and ships them overseas to sell. I knew this guy, who was in his late twenties and rotund, was trained in buying phones; he brought a toothbrush, SIM card remover, and various other tools to inspect the device. I was uneasy during and after the deal; left scarred and paranoid from the previous Craigslist experience. To show how paranoid I was, I even went to a bank teller, asking him to check if the money he gave me was fake. After this ordeal, I realized that spending that extra $300 to buy a brand new phone is worth it; all this stress, mental exhaustion, and time is worth saving by putting down that extra money.
But the problem wasn't over; I bought a T-Mobile HTC One on Swappa for myself when I gave my iPhone 4S to my dad, although from a trusted seller, I knew I could not risk it anymore. Even though I know this guy's name, address, PayPal account, and had proof of purchase, I was still powerless; the wireless and insurance companies don't care about the facts. The merit of facts flies out the window and all they do is put their fingers in their ears and scream "OUR POLICY!" But I remembered during the escapade with the AT&T supervisor, he said I could have transferred the ownership of the phone. To get my facts straight, I went to T-Mobile with all the evidence I had saying I bought this phone from Swappa; I didn't bother with the bottom-feeders and went straight to the manager. Guess what he said? "We can't tap into the system and transfer ownership of a phone since it's tied to a contract. The best we can do it make a note on YOUR account that you bought this phone; this won't prevent it from being blacklisted but it will help if you decide to escalate the issue to Asurion (the insurance company)." Now I thought to myself, "would Asurion even give a damn?" The answer: NO; no they would not. They would most likely try to push the responsibility to someone else and dismiss this huge hole that creates helpless victims because their business runs on customers "losing" their phones or getting it "stolen," and then paying them to replace it.
After all this time wasted trying to get to the bottom of things, I'm left with the cold hard truth: you WILL get burned if you buy a used phone and there is NOTHING you can do about it! NOTHING! The best you can do is to take matters into your own hands and sue; the companies don't care and the police can't help! Save yourself from what has happened to me; just spend that extra $300 to buy a new phone. It's worth every penny for that extra security because this world is full of people who will take advantage of you! I can already feel my idealism fading...

yorkies88888 said:
I bought an iPhone 4S last year from a guy on Craigslist.
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I'm sorry this happened, but you purchased the phone off of craiglist!! You should of known better a simple google search would of told you about the dangers.

That was a long read but well worth it sorry that happened to you man, But i think recommending people not buy a second hand phone is somewhat extreme not everyone is a crook and are out to get you.
Anyway glad you were able to recoup half of the money back.

I often meet with someone on the way to sell me a second-hand mobile phone, I did not bother these people.

I bought my HTC one s from a local pawn shop. It was a fido phone which I unlocked and use on Telus network. So basically as long as you buy a phone which was not on the carrier you are going to use it on, then you are completely safe right?
Could you not have still switched that iPhone back to T-Mobile?
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

350Rocket said:
I bought my HTC one s from a local pawn shop. It was a fido phone which I unlocked and use on Telus network. So basically as long as you buy a phone which was not on the carrier you are going to use it on, then you are completely safe right?
Could you not have still switched that iPhone back to T-Mobile?
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
Well the problem is that carriers in the U.S. are starting to share the same blacklist; AT&T, T-Mobile, and the other smaller wireless companies under them share the same list. Once you get blacklisted on one carrier, you're blacklisted by most now.

Thanks for the info.. glad you told.the story. I know this now heh.. sorry for what happened
Sent from my SPH-L720 using xda app-developers app

Thanks for the story.

I think it is pretty safe to buy second hand unlocked phone...
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yorkies88888 said:
Well the problem is that carriers in the U.S. are starting to share the same blacklist; AT&T, T-Mobile, and the other smaller wireless companies under them share the same list. Once you get blacklisted on one carrier, you're blacklisted by most now.
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This applies to me as well. Without getting into too much detail: Purchased a late model android phone from Craigslist, an unlocked AT&T branded device and I use T Mobile. Fast forward until 2 weeks ago the phone would no longer make calls and gave me a specific error code which I forget now. Turns out that code meant "stolen or lost device" and it would no longer work on any US cellular networks.
Someone who isn't me was unsuccessful in changing the number that shall remain nameless in order to get the phone working again.... that is all

yorkies88888 said:
Well the problem is that carriers in the U.S. are starting to share the same blacklist; AT&T, T-Mobile, and the other smaller wireless companies under them share the same list. Once you get blacklisted on one carrier, you're blacklisted by most now.
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Click to collapse
Now i am living in europe, so this doesnt really bother me, yet i am still curious: what if you buy a htc one (for example) that someone had with contract, and root it? Would it still be in a blacklist? And for the iphones: does a jailbreak do the trick to get the phone going again?
Also, sorry for your experiences :/
Greets Vauvenal7
Sent from my HTC MyTouch_4G_slide

Vauvenal7 said:
Now i am living in europe, so this doesnt really bother me, yet i am still curious: what if you buy a htc one (for example) that someone had with contract, and root it? Would it still be in a blacklist? And for the iphones: does a jailbreak do the trick to get the phone going again?
Also, sorry for your experiences :/
Greets Vauvenal7
Sent from my HTC MyTouch_4G_slide
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Nope. Software modifications won't do anything as your IMEI has been blacklisted. The only way around that is a new motherboard.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app

@ yorkie8888
*Interesting read, Sorry to hear what happened, everyone else, I'm from London UK and was wondering if anyone else had experienced anything similar to yorkie here in the UK?
Sent from my Revolutionary Htc One X

Anyone know if this affects Canada the same? For example using an unlocked fido/rogers phone on Telus. Do they share a blacklist too?
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app

This I feel has to be said:
Your spent $400 on a USED iPhone?
Buying used phones entails some downsides, like not getting to claim warranty, and this blacklisting thing is really sad, but, meh, that's why we buy them cheap.
Also, I feel the lesson here is, take precautions when buying second-hand, for instance, leave the phone unused for 31+ days. Buy a bat and work out. Take incriminating photos of the seller, etc.
Anyway isn't it possible -although illegal, I know- to change your IMEI?
Seems to be "common" losing/changing it when flashing ROMs.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Thanks for the info
Sent from my HTC Explorer A310e using xda app-developers app

Thanks for sharing this info.

So what is the point of someone blacklisting a phone a year later? Do they get a insurance claim or something.
I have bought used sprint phones for years, but now that I am using a phone (tmobile) with a sim card/imei it seems that you are more likely to get screwed.
Does swappa and PayPal not protect against this issue? And if not what the hell is swappa charging the customer $10/transaction for?

I am almost positive I got this same error a couple of years ago on a phone purchased directly from AT&T. It was a bad SIM card. I wasn't able to make calls or anything. They replaced the SIM and it worked. So for those who buy a used phone and get that error, check your SIM card first.

I've been buying and selling used phones for the last 2 years and never had an issue. I've don't buy off craigslist though, I stick to swappa or ebay where you have some protection via paypal. Yes you always run the risk of someone reporting the device lost/stolen after the sale, but that's why you only buy from reputable/rated sellers and skip on anything that looks too good to be true.
I'm sorry to hear you got screwed on your iphone, but I wouldn't consider your experience the norm. As for the warranty/insurance issue on your other phone, that's just how it is, do your research. The warranty only applies to the original buyer of the device (when bought through an authorized retailer). Same with insurance, you can only add it in a certain time frame when you've bought the phone from an authorized retailer.
However, some carries do have an "open enrollment" where you can add insurance to your device regardless of when/where you bought it. Verizon actually has it going on right now through Dec 2.