Related
Gday guys ive been wanting to keep my wireless constantly on at some points and figured the only way to do this was to prevent my phone from "Turning off/Sleep" So ive done that. But im not sure how long the battery will last and if it will be significant?
Also is there a quick and easy way to lock the phone by pressing the top button instead of putting it to sleep? Be heaps easier!
Cheers
Depends on rom/radio.. With my current settings wifi kills 10% of battery when connected for 15 minutes..
m0tyrider said:
Gday guys ive been wanting to keep my wireless constantly on at some points and figured the only way to do this was to prevent my phone from "Turning off/Sleep" So ive done that. But im not sure how long the battery will last and if it will be significant?
Also is there a quick and easy way to lock the phone by pressing the top button instead of putting it to sleep? Be heaps easier!
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have already done it, you should know before a day is over. My experience is a few hours at most (maybe 4 if you have very little running).
you could use a Battery Monitoring program (PowerGuard, battery log, TBattery) to find the amperage usage during WiFi...
i.e. when i have a GPS(with GPS enable) program in use, those battery monitoring program says 300-500mAh usage... taking worst case scenario 500mAh and a full battery, 1340/500 = 2+ hours... best case scenario of 300mAh with full battery is 1340/300 = 4+ hours...
when i'm using wifi, tBattery says 233mAh... thats 4-5 hours...
I got about 7 hrs from full to 10%
I get about 30 hrs when phone goes to sleep with light use
Hi I have bought vibrant from ebay and using it for about week now
and it has serious battery problem
first of all
right now i am using official updated 2.2
but even before updating there was battery problem so it;s not 2.2 for sure
so i downloaded app called battery minder which gives me % and how many minutes left on my phone
so here is the problem comes when i fully charge my phone
no wifi, no blue tooth, no gps, data turned on it shows i have about like 6 hrs
and when i turn my wifi on and when it;s connected it says i have 18 hrs or something
and when i just turn my bluetooth on without wifi it gives me like 1 more hr from 6 hr so about 7 or 8
and when i make my phone to airplane mode it gives me 22 hrs or something
and the minutes showing on there it;s pretty accruate
so is there way to fix it? and even if there is way to fix it airplane mode and 22hrs i think that's way too little
or is that supposed to be
i don;t know how other ppls battery is so that's why i am posting here
please please help me
i love the phone but battery is just not right
and my point of view right now i do not think it;s the battery because when i turn my bluetooth on it gives me more hrs...
so please help me
i think longest i used in one day is like 8-9 hrs
when i didn;t really do anything with my phone...
maybe i played with it for like 1 hr maximum...
that's maximum usually 6 hrs or 5...
please please help
oh and i tried pulling my battery out and everything...
factory reset...
one last question if it is the battery if i change my battery get it from ebay or something which one should i get if i get those cheap ebay batteries will it damage my phone?
please help thank you so much
The battery drain was fixed for the Vibrant a few builds back. It should only be draining when your screen is on and you're actually using the phone. You may be expecting too much out of your phone. Those who report 14+ hours of use usually get that because they barely touch their phones all day or use it mostly for texting which takes very little battery life.
Dont rely on battery apps. Just use and enjoy your phone.. If you need, extra batteries are cheap online.
are those cheap batteries good?
will they damage my phone?
i see on ebay that like 3 batteries are like 10 dollars...
is that trustable?
and also i am not trying to expect too much it;s just that
when i turn my bluetooth on i get more hrs and i don;t know it;s just not right to me
and when i didn't use my phone at all i had like 40% after 12 hrs
when my friend uses iphone 4 and had 86%
is that why android sucks so much?
I have 2 ebay batteries and have had no problems with either.
thanks for that comment
i guess i will order but i still can;t figure out this battery problem..
You can try reflashing your ROM. But I really don't see a problem. Your phone has a super amoled screen which eats tones of battery. Being connected to 3g eats more battery than wifi, etc. You may just be expecting too much out of your phone tbh.
but that same for the iphone
my friend and i had class so oviously we couldn;t really use our phones
and after like 12 hrs later
he had 86%
and i had 40%
since i didn;t turn my screen on that much
that means i didn;t use the super amoled
and we both were using 3g
so atleast it should be somewhere near iphone
You can't make a direct comparison like that. Your phone and your friends phone have different operation systems, different amount of processes running, different hardware, and different batteries. Not to mention different signal strength which also effects battery life.
thank you for reply i understand what you are saying but
i just don't know
if it;s like 20 % difference i get it..
but 40%?
even though it;s different phoen and different system
it;s way too much..
you can compare mac and window with same spec
it;s not going to be that much different
40% shows me there is something wrong..
If that's what you wana believe. Maybe you should get an iPhone then.
Now that Current Widget works on the Sensation It would be interesting to see what everyone else is getting on idle.
Im running standard rom Vodafone UK Branded and it doesnt seam to dip below 200mA on average, the lowest was 89ma for a few secs then shot back up. I have had it running and logging over night.
What is everyone else getting?
jck239 said:
Now that Current Widget works on the Sensation It would be interesting to see what everyone else is getting on idle.
Im running standard rom Vodafone UK Branded and it doesnt seam to dip below 200mA on average, the lowest was 89ma for a few secs then shot back up. I have had it running and logging over night.
What is everyone else getting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm getting 140-170 at idle, this is with juice defender, and data set to on every 2 hours
To be honest I don't think battery monitor widget I is reflecting the right amount of drainage. Change it from sensation to estimated and watch how much your numbers change
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Mine is around 250ma when in idle. Overnight I have bluetooth, wifi, gps and push mail off and it only checks mail every 4 hours... so not quite sure what it is doing. Was running the same s/w on my HD2 and was getting < 5ma.
Andy-D said:
Mine is around 250ma when in idle. Overnight I have bluetooth, wifi, gps and push mail off and it only checks mail every 4 hours... so not quite sure what it is doing. Was running the same s/w on my HD2 and was getting < 5ma.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me, I was getting <5ma on my HD2 when idle.
I wonder if SetCPU really works with the Sensation, having 250ma when idle would kill the battery way too fast!
I'm not sure if I have the maths/theory totally wrong, but pls correct me if so.... but if we have a reading of 250mah that means we are taking 250 ma per hour. Say our baterry is 1500mah (should provide 1500ma for one hour) does that mean we get 6 hours (1500/250) from a full charge??
Shoot me down if I have the theory wrong.... but 250mah does seem a lot. Presume that we need to trust the reading we are getting from the Battery Monitor Pro widget.
Andy-D said:
I'm not sure if I have the maths/theory totally wrong, but pls correct me if so.... but if we have a reading of 250mah that means we are taking 250 ma per hour. Say our baterry is 1500mah (should provide 1500ma for one hour) does that mean we get 6 hours (1500/250) from a full charge??
Shoot me down if I have the theory wrong.... but 250mah does seem a lot. Presume that we need to trust the reading we are getting from the Battery Monitor Pro widget.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think your math is correct, but something is surely wrong as I can get 3+ days under very light usage.
something wrong with mine tooo, ex user of hd2 usually around 7-9 mah when hd2 in idle, now use sensation around 200++
I gonna leave it 1rst if my battery drain in 6-7 hours then something wrong with my sensation but if it over 8 hours seem there is flaw in current widget
When the App does logging, your phone will need more power. Not accurate in my opinion. I also got something like 200 mA for idle. But it's not so much more when playing music etc. I assume the display consumes most of the power (Android's battery usage info agrees with me). Try measuring it in standy as follows: Disable your logging apps etc, remember your battery status in %. Leave it in Standby overnight, remember the time when you turn it off. In the morning, check your batetry status and note the time so that you can tell how many % you lost in what time. Then take that percentage from your battery capacity (1580 mah with stock battery). Divide this by the amount of hours and you will find your standby drain. Mine is something like 16 ma.
Example: Your battery when you go to sleep: 80%. You sleep for 8 hours. Your battery reading now: 70%. Thats 10%. 10% of 1580 mah is 158 mah. Divided by 8 is 19.75 ma. That's your standby consumption.
I recommend you do this when your battery is around 50%. My battery stays at 100% for a very long time, don't know why...
Just installed an update to the Battery Monitor Pro Widget that is supposed to address the issue of high current readings ont he Sensation. Will see how it goes.
Andy-D said:
Just installed an update to the Battery Monitor Pro Widget that is supposed to address the issue of high current readings ont he Sensation. Will see how it goes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes no difference.
No app to date is accurately measuring the stdby current (screen off) Clearly 200mA is not correct as your phone would only last 8 hours wiith no usage!
I'm getting 6 mA on idle, around average of 200 mA while in use.
I'm using battery monitor widget(free version).
I'm recording the history at 1 hour interval. sometimes idle mA doesn't record because it fall within that time frame.
but when it does, 6mA.
Mainspring said:
I'm getting 6 mA on idle, around average of 200 mA while in use.
I'm using battery monitor widget(free version).
I'm recording the history at 1 hour interval. sometimes idle mA doesn't record because it fall within that time frame.
but when it does, 6mA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go to your monitoring settings and go to ma retrieval settings and put it on sensation and then tell us what readings you get? I'm assuming your setting is on estimated right now
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Now here's a strange thing.... was looking at my ma usage graph over night and noticed a couple of times it was on almost 0ma and not the normal 200-250ma. On looking at the history I noticed that this as the only time the temp fell below 25deg C. All other history was 200-250 and the temp was 25 and above.... very strange.... might put it in the fridge for a few minutes tonight!!
you people are funny if you think you battery is going to last a couple days with out charging, this is not back in the day with nokia phones these smart phones use alot of power things like your social network must update that big ass clock must update that weather must update and so on the most your going to get is almost a full day without charging thats it my battery stay at a 100 percent for 1hr before it start going down after charging and this is just with cutting it on to see the time or weather not heavy use
phonegod said:
you people are funny if you think you battery is going to last a couple days with out charging, this is not back in the day with nokia phones these smart phones use alot of power things like your social network must update that big ass clock must update that weather must update and so on the most your going to get is almost a full day without charging thats it my battery stay at a 100 percent for 1hr before it start going down after charging and this is just with cutting it on to see the time or weather not heavy use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many of us can get 2-3-4 days without a charge. I just went on charge @40% after 1d 22hrs. But please don't let facts get in the way of your misinformation.
zim2dive said:
Many of us can get 2-3-4 days without a charge. I just went on charge @40% after 1d 22hrs. But please don't let facts get in the way of your misinformation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
theres noway you getting 2-3-4 days without charging inless you just leave it in the house without using it and still wont happen tell that freakin lie to someone else what you think i dont have the phone my self lol... you funny with that 1 no one in this thread said they battery last that long but you theres always one who want to exagerate
phonegod said:
theres noway you getting 2-3-4 days without charging inless you just leave it in the house without using it and still wont happen tell that freakin lie to someone else what you think i dont have the phone my self lol... you funny with that 1 no one in this thread said they battery last that long but you theres always one who want to exagerate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lots of us exaggerators out there but again.. don't let contrary evidence get in the way of your rant. No one is claiming everyone gets this battery life, but there are plenty who do.
When you get done reading all these "exaggerations" and seeing the pictures (gosh they must be Photoshopped) you can retract your accusation of lying.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15124113&postcount=35
2D 20H on battery ... still have >50% left (showing 6 green of 10 bars on About Battery)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15332237&postcount=108
the device clocked 18 hours and the battery has only drained to 52%. Highly impressed!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15162109&postcount=58
25 hrs and still 24% battery left and I know the phone staysbat 4% battery for about 4 hours for some reason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15248584&postcount=85
After 16h 27m I was at 68% left.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15573388&postcount=51
picture is worth a 1000 words...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15488981&postcount=19
Twice this past week I forgot to charge the phone and went 1 day + 6 hours before the phone started to alert me that I was at 10-20%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15490453&postcount=23
But after few cycle, i can do 2 days without charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15504158&postcount=25:
I unplugged the device at 6 am is now almost 1 am (19 hours) and still having 43% left.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15504924&postcount=28
mine 2 days
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15513224&postcount=37 (another screen shot)
In an attempt to get back on topic...
The recent update to CurrentWidget mentions it now works on the Sensation, but it's definitly not reading mA's correctly. Still a work in progress, I suppose.
What is everyone's feelings on Battery Monitor Widget (I am at work now so can't download it) and what is with this estimated setting? What is the point of that???
BTW, I can easily go 2 days with the 2 Sensations at my house...
zim2dive said:
Lots of us exaggerators out there but again.. don't let contrary evidence get in the way of your rant. No one is claiming everyone gets this battery life, but there are plenty who do.
When you get done reading all these "exaggerations" and seeing the pictures (gosh they must be Photoshopped) you can retract your accusation of lying.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15124113&postcount=35
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15332237&postcount=108
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15162109&postcount=58
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15248584&postcount=85
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15573388&postcount=51
picture is worth a 1000 words...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15488981&postcount=19
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15490453&postcount=23
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15504158&postcount=25:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15504924&postcount=28
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15513224&postcount=37 (another screen shot)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dude 19hrs and still 43% left is not 3to 4 days nobody is getting over a day and im not ranting just stating facts i have the phone too all im saying is your phone battery is not going to last under heavy use like cell phone back in the day now thats it all that stuff you posted dont mean nothing you went around and copy paste everbody **** to prove to me nothing there still not getting over a full day under heavy use also if i go cut off a bunch of stuff of course im going to get a little more but if you use your phone with out all the tricks like stop sync or anything else it wont last the phone came that way meaning it should last without cutting off anything but it dont you have to make sacrifices for it to last none of those pics showed 2days somebody said 2days but like you said pics is worth a 1000 words
Moderate Use
Doctorz V8
Stock kernel
No voltage changes or clocking aside from what comes with the RoM.
Auto screen brightness.
Main difference is Background Data is off for everything but Market.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
What do you mean by background data and how do you set that?
Sent from my SGH-I997 using XDA App
Just an observation, but the graph at the top under where it says 1 day 19 hours clearly shows your battery going up 3 times. Which I was just going to pass up but I have a bunch of shots of my battery stats and none of them go up.
[IMG]http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h472/BadFishCM/SC20110821-130202.png[/IMG]
So if I'm not mistaken you plugged in a couple times.
I seen that as well but I honestly have no idea why. I can assure you it has not been plugged in. I even have a prior screen shot on another battery run that has the same issue.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
Thats impossible, theirs no way for a phone to charge itself while discharging. Something is screwed up with your battery calibration.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using xda premium
Battery Management
Hi, all.
I want to pass this tip along to anyone who want or need to conserve their battery for what ever reasons.
I have gone usually 3 day+ on one charge.
I'm running on stock rom. Froyo 2.2.1
It is rooted though
I use the phone moderately. Text occasionally.
I downloaded an app called "DataSwitch" by TomatoX.
I use wifi when I'm at home or work.
I have dataswitch activated when I don't need constant background data. ?I turn it on when I need to use it for surfing and such.
In Settings, there is also a toggle for background on/off, although I don't use this much.
With the data off, you can still get phone call and text msg.
I usually turn off data and wifi at bedtime.
On the third day, I'm usually down to 35%.
This may also be useful if you are low and can't get to a charge right away.
It may not apply to everybody, but it works for me..esp with only a 200mb data plan. Battery life is great!
lol look at that cell standby use your phone lol
xKrisx said:
Moderate Use
Doctorz V8
Stock kernel
No voltage changes or clocking aside from what comes with the RoM.
Auto screen brightness.
Main difference is Background Data is off for everything but Market.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good one. But next time on, it would be more useful if you post the screenshots showing call duration and display time. With just this one screenshot it could have display on for just 5 mins or 50 mins. Its hard to tell.
Just now noticed, the tiny green bars in the screenshot (circled in red) come up when the phone is charging.
I noticed that (at least for my phone) if you connect it to wall charging it would reset the "time on battery" count but if i connected it via usb to pc it was charging, yeah slowly maybe but the timer never reset when connected via usb as if the phone said "well im charging but it doesnt counts since the guy its transfering data"(lmao yeah my phone is smart) so if you wait for 10% battery ans then go usb mode and charge it and use it and repeat i once got displaying 4 days 10 hours on battery haha.
While on my real stats my phone never last more than 18 hours ;/
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
koriotto said:
I noticed that (at least for my phone) if you connect it to wall charging it would reset the "time on battery" count but if i connected it via usb to pc it was charging, yeah slowly maybe but the timer never reset when connected via usb as if the phone said "well im charging but it doesnt counts since the guy its transfering data"(lmao yeah my phone is smart) so if you wait for 10% battery ans then go usb mode and charge it and use it and repeat i once got displaying 4 days 10 hours on battery haha.
While on my real stats my phone never last more than 18 hours ;/
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ 1
I got my phone to say 2 days 15 hours once. As long as I don't charge it 100% the time on my battery continues to go up. I can plug it in while it has 10% left charge it till its 90% unplug it, and the time won't reset.
If anyone mistook my comment, I'm not really interested in claiming any specific record as the op as stated.
I simply meant to share my thoughts on "dataswitch" app and how I had applied it.
I think found it useful to limit data usage and to conserve the battery when I can't get a charge right away.
You'll be surprise how much battery life background data consumes.
The other part tech part of me also recognizes that battery memory exist...it may be best to "widen" your charge range (0% to 100%) when possible.
Well, I figured out what caused that.. My radio in my truck has a USB port that I plug my phone into to listen to my music. Worked great on my Ipod but it wouldn't charge my Ipod. However today when coming home, I plugged my phone in and it doesnt show to be charging, but when I looked at the Battery Use chart, it deffinately showed an increase.
And here I was thinking I was getting impecable battery life lol.
Oh well.. Sorry for the fuss. However, I will keep trying
xKrisx said:
Well, I figured out what caused that.. My radio in my truck has a USB port that I plug my phone into to listen to my music. Worked great on my Ipod but it wouldn't charge my Ipod. However today when coming home, I plugged my phone in and it doesnt show to be charging, but when I looked at the Battery Use chart, it deffinately showed an increase.
And here I was thinking I was getting impecable battery life lol.
Oh well.. Sorry for the fuss. However, I will keep trying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There you go. Mystery solved. Case closed.
more like....busted?
alc630 said:
more like....busted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't use a hard word. Looks like he is still new and didn't realize his phone was charging. Well, he didn't realize that the green line in pic meant charging. So he gets benefit of doubt.
stock Froyo...
one charge...for real
lol..light use.
qkster said:
stock Froyo...
one charge...for real
lol..light use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good one. Capture the display time and call time too please next time on.
qkster said:
stock Froyo...
one charge...for real
lol..light use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I'm a kung fu panda.
diablo009 said:
Good one. Capture the display time and call time too please next time on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do I do that?
I tried going into settings, about phone, and battery use. That was the img I got.
I'm not sure how to bring up the charge graph, display time and call time as well...
On stock froyo 2.2.1. Baseband I997UCKH1. Kernel 2.6.32.9
I can try it again in a few days if you can tell me how
I'm also using screenshot from the Market.
I'm new at this so tell me step by step pls.
thnks
qkster said:
How do I do that?
I tried going into settings, about phone, and battery use. That was the img I got.
I'm not sure how to bring up the charge graph, display time and call time as well...
On stock froyo 2.2.1. Baseband I997UCKH1. Kernel 2.6.32.9
I can try it again in a few days if you can tell me how
I'm also using screenshot from the Market.
I'm new at this so tell me step by step pls.
thnks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click on individual elements listed to show more details about them.
My raphael really is working really bad last times and unfortunately i wont be able tu buy a new phone for another 2 or 3 months...
Im using energy rom. Dunno if it matters tho.
1.My problem is my raphael battery or something around it. When i charge it to 100% and then just keep it locked in my pocket it will easily last a day or even more. BUT if i only start doing something it will turn off after a few minutes or even SECONDS... What the hell? I cant use it at all... It has been like that for few weeks... But it was perfectly fine before. What's strange , if i turn it on again after some time it will again have some pretty high battery percentage allowing me to do something for another few minutes. Has anyone experienced this? Is it problem with my battery? I do not want to buy a new battery for those 2 months.
2.Is there any way to lengthen the battery live? I have heard something about putting it in the fridge (0.0) but don't remember what exactly...
3.What's the best way to charge my phone by connecting it with usb to PC? In work i cant use my charger.
I've never really had great battery life with any mobile phone. However, I imagine that you can gain a few hours/minutes by disabling the background data. I usually charge up my phone over night and it lasts till I put it back on the charger. However, I have run it down to about 10% a few times.
Well... I don't know what to do... I switched back to manila ROM , changed radio, disabled 3g, wifi, backlight as low as possible... And it didnt really help much...
It's like that. I load it to 100% , hide it in my pocket and it will last from morning to late afternoon if left unused.
But if only i start to use it will turn off by itself after 5(!) minutes... That's not normal i think... The strangest thing is that it started to be like this so suddenly.
I don't know what else to tell you. It does seem rather odd but if you are just going to get another phone anyway, I'd try to tough it out till then. Do you remember exactly when you noticed this behavior? Has anything changed during that time?
Well... my charger broke like few weeks ago and i started chargingmy phone by connecting it to the pc... Could it be the reason?
Is your battery swollen in any way? If it is, that could be the cause of bad battery life.
Come to think of it, one of my batteries seem slightly swollen and even though it is the oldest of my three batteries, it still works on occasion (when I use it). Now on the other hand, I don't constantly charge my phone via laptop. I hearsay, that doing this somehow *may* change the lifespan (possibly behavior?) of the battery. I can't say for certain as I don't usually charge my phone in this manner. Additionally, I try not to continuously charge my battery to 100% (rather 80% is what I look for) and I also try wait till my battery is at least 30% before I put it on the charger. I have read that this is the "optimal way" to charge and discharge your battery (or li-ion batteries anyway).
Perhaps you can try to do this and tell if there is a difference? I almost want to say that even through this, there is a slight chance that you'll notice an increase of battery life but perhaps, it'll be more consistent instead of the rapid discharge. Also, this could be a telltale sign that your battery is on its way out? You might want to keep that USB cord handy in the meantime and try to keep the battery levels between 80 and 30%.
e334 said:
Is your battery swollen in any way? If it is, that could be the cause of bad battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now when i looked at my battery i see it is REALLY swollen. 0.0 Ehhh anyway, i am changing the phone pretty soon so i dont care that much...
@R^7Z
It's not so easy , you know... It will show 3-4 bars of energy (max is 4, windows 6.1) and it will just turn off... Meh, i am glad im changing it soon
Ah, I forgot you were using a stock ROM and not a custom ROM. So, what do you see when you tap the battery icon/top curtain?