I just need to vent. I'm a fairly active developer for the android platform. I've created a number of kernel patches and applications that I have released at no charge to the community for about 10 or so devices.
All this I do in my "spare time", which I have very little of because I am a full time professional student who takes on 32 credit hour semesters.
Recently, since my 1994 geo prizm is literally falling apart and I was hoping to scrounge together a little bit of money to get a new car so I don't end up stranded on my way to class, I decided to release a paid application. Fastcharge / Force AC toggle which allows you to toggle on and off the force AC feature. A feature which I have personally implemented and released source patches for on a number of devices.
Not only in every thread where I released the patch on a device did I write up how to toggle the feature through the command line, but I also stated that I also implemented a toggle into my completely free application that you can also download from the market, IncrediControl.
In good faith and knowing how annoying licensing is, I elected to not include licensing in my application. This is a huge regret.
Within a couple days of releasing the application to the market I googled it to see if anyone was talking about it. One of the first links was to a piracy site where a user was requesting the widget, to which another user obliged and posted the apk to a filesharing site. Doing something I never though I would have to do, I filed a DMCA takedown request, which was answered quickly and the app was taken down. Monitoring the thread, every single time a link gets taken down, another user requests the app and the original user reuploads it, most recently to 11 different sites.
So now, after filing dozens of takedown requests. This user has decided to unzip my apk, change out the artwork, and now is going around releasing it as his own work.
Really, all this to avoid paying $1.50 (only ~$1 of it actually going to me) to an individual whose yearly income is low enough that he doesn't have to file taxes?
This disgusts me.
This is even worse than the 50% "order cancellation rate" that the widget has. I'm not stupid, I know exactly what users are doing, but yet initially I was willing to ignore it. But this has gone too far.
What is even the point of pissing off a developer so much that he is considering saying screw the platform all together? It doesn't even make sense. We, the developers improve your devices, generally at little or no cost, and this is how we're repaid. With ~50% of current users of the application having pirated it. To avoid paying just over $1.
Now before someone even counters with the "my area doesn't support paid applications" argument I've actually gladly GIVEN the widget away to a number of users who casually mentioned in the release threads that they couldn't download it for this reason. Not to mention, everyone knows there are apps that unlock the market in these areas to be able to purchase apps.
How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
Of course, this must suck for a developer like you. Unfortunately, it seems to happen more and more often, and all I can really say is:
I would gladly pay a few bucks for an application like IC or BootManager. That BootManager seemed really interesting, but we can't buy apps from the Play Store without CC (and as a 16-year old, I don't have one). I asked the developer if he accepted Paypal, but he didn't.
Don't get me wrong, and this is not an attack to you personally: developers, if you made something really nice, and people will like it, 70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
Chaosz-X said:
70% of the people will gladly pay for it, just make sure you allow them to.
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I honestly thought this was the case. It's really not. The problem is much worse than that. If 70% of users in the root community paid for apps it would be astonishing. Its made pretty clear by the number of users who download the app, back it up and then cancel the order.
If a 16 year old kid had made me that offer, the e-mail reply I sent would have the apk attached.
Well, that is a real flaw of Android: tweakability is really impressing, but these things make it really difficult to earn some money as a developer.
We have been thinking about anti-piracy measures as well, with stuff such as authentication with a server, and locking down the code and verifying integrity of APKs and stuff to make sure it's really hard to mess with the code, but it's just sad that there's a need for these measures..
The trouble is everything has piracy right from movies to game consoles through to mobiles and music.
I mean the iPhones appstore would be a hell of a lot bigger if there was no jailbreaking and installous.
Every platform has been cracked so you'll get it regardless of what you develop for.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA
I think you know you just needed to vent but can I change your picture.
There are some people in this world who just don't buy the idea of an idea as property. That's not compatible with this business model. That's the first problem.
The next problem is that
there's a million and one apps out there and which one are we going to choose? Where does it start, where does it end? We all have our limits. What's yours?
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
The very community that allowed us to create the app fails to pay for it's products is like life itself.
I'd say make something for the iphone instead because there's more profit there but that would never have been possible, see what I'm saying? That's the 3rd problem.
So you've got 3 problems there all converging into one big push towards piracy. But remember, can your app assure security that the pirated version cannot for example? This is how one has to think.
In short,
you can't do something and hope to make a bit from it on the side. You got to go out from the start and get the money aspect central from the start. I mean, that's business and of course that's exactly what the android community works hard to free us from.
Still, summarising those 3 points for suggestion:
- offer something free things can't (i.e. security, brand etc) For example, I never run pirated stuff for fear of insecurity on my data whereas I'll try out software that way on an old PC
- can always put a service in the cloud aka the javascript trap
- iphone is there if you want...
- needs to "the one app" a certain person would pay for, not something everyone likes
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
jago25_98 said:
For me, the app has to be something very unique and possible generate me cash. For example something I use every day at work. If it's something that the phone should do anyway I tend to skip it and save the $1 for the next phone that does it out of the box. Your app is a great thing, but there's many utility apps out there. It just doesn't fall into the kind of thing I'd cave my strict budgeting for. There are people here with a 1000 apps installed and you expect them to pay $1000 in this sense.
Another way would be having utility in the cloud and then the app is free. Another one of course, advertising.
The difference with both of these is we don't need to risk a credit card with the market. That's the main reason I personally haven't bought many apps and I'd imagine it's a problem for minors too.
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The feature is 100% unique and so is the widget. Not to mention, if you didn't want to pay the $1, I provided a free way to toggle the feature in the utility app. The point is, that there is nothing forcing people to pay for the widget to use the feature. But instead of using the free option provided, they not only pirate the paid app, but edit the artwork and release it for free as their own. It defies logic.
Also, ad based apps don't work with the rooted community. I learned that early on. Myfree utility app is ad supported. With over 40,000 installs you would think it would make even a dollar a day. Nope, makes nearly nothing. That's when I realized that the same niche I was marketing to are the same people who block ads. Even if someone didn't want to block ads, they can't install a single ROM that doesn't include an ad blocking hosts file out of the box.
chad0989 said:
[...] How much more generous can a developer be than to provide source code patches for a feature, provide information on how to toggle the feature, provide a COMPLETELY FREE way to toggle the feature, and then charge a measly $1.50 for a secondary, slightly more convenient way to toggle.
Yet he's repaid like this .
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Be sure you're looking at all sides. Yes, you're in a losing war with guys intent on pirating your app. You can't stop them, and well, you goofed on the licensing, so someone will no doubt release the clone.
First of all, don't do the Big Media thing and assume that everybody that pirates your app would have paid for it if it hadn't been available. A lot of folks collect, or just try something once. You'll only work yourself into a funk thinking about all that money you "would" have if only they hadn't been able to pirate it. They wouldn't have. At least not all of them.
More importantly, be aware that placing something out there with value does reach folks that otherwise would have no idea of you or your plight. More than once, I've purchased an app that I don't really need, but found clever and cheap enough I can buy it without thinking about the investment. I've spent more on Android software at $1-15 over the last year than I did over the last 25+ at $30-100 a pop. I've only refunded an app once, by accident.
Finally, be up front about your situation. A guy trying to make do does influence my impulse buying. So does his reputation. If you're doing a lot, be sure that's clear on your app page, and let us know clearly you're the guy that also brought us whatever.
I am curious, though: How much did you actually bring in?
Chad- thanks for telling your story, I agree that you have every right to be disappointed. Especially the buying and refunding, that to me send almost worse because you can't stop dedicated pirating, but I would have hoped the rest would have bought the app.
It's easy to forget the human side of development, so thanks for sharing your side.
Jesus christ Chad. This is f$%&*#@ ridiculous. Probably the best and most generous kernel dev I have ever come into contact with, and people are cheating you out of 1.50. Please don't abandon Android. I need kernels when I get my rezound! but in all seriousness, warez needs to stop.
Sent from my ADR6400L
Yep. Sucks. After getting serious about android , which wasn't too far in, joining with a nexus one and seeing all the free HARD work we get, I definitely try buying stuff I use. If I can't pay sometimes I will see if dev does something else I can donate to. Its an issue I've thought about and part of it really boils down to how sorry people are in general. They want free and cheap. $1 is laughable even when it can be easily had for free. You really should market yourself a bit even though you don't want to. And people should really put a complimentary $5 or so budget a month or more and try to support devs. Maybe if you have something he gave free but has an app you won't use for a buck, buy the dollar app and uninstall after the 15 minute period. Or throw him a 5 through PayPal or something. Its simple really. If these devs don't have to resort to ramen and water they keep dev'ing especially for the community supporting him or her. And if they're eating vegetables and have plenty of red bull money it gives them wings. Otoh, the devs that make us pay to reinstall an app after we bought it on another or lost our phone suck. Balls. Won't buys theirs anymore.
teach a man to fish, you feed him for life. teach a man to fastboot, and you create competency. and less threads on xda.
Maybe you should implement a system like some developers do where you download the app for free with a time limited trail, then they would go to another website to pay for the app to unlock it, and the unlock codes would be unique for every user which would minimize piracy.
Sent from my GT-N7000 Samsung Galaxy Note "Go big or go home" using XDA app
rafa6571 said:
I hope google sells PlayStore cards (like itunes cards) that allows user to buy apps, music, movies, books without a credit card. I really want to buy some amazing apps but i dont have a credit card so i just use free apps. I think that if u cant buy an app that cant be a reason to piracy or sidedownload that app.
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In the Netherlands we have prepaid Visa card.
Works well.
Maybe you google something similar in your own country.
(3V prepaid Visa cards)
That does suck but if someone wants to pirate an app even licencing doesn't stop them as there is an app that apparently patches licence checks.
It is so easy for even a non root and new user to find cracked apps, I have seen links on here and even on peoples facebook sites, it's got to the point where people can just browse a webpage and click a link to get the cracked version of an app.
Unfortunately if someone wants to crack it they can. Unless you could implement your own security check somehow, something obfuscated in the code, licencing is the only alternative as it would stop people using backed up cancelled versions at least.
Unfortunately it seems a lot of people just don't want to pay for apps.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
also have to look at both sides. some people just refuse to pay for **** whatever it is, or get it as cheaply as they can. being android apps, the free route is how they're going to go. but the other side, you hsould be grateful for all the people that do pay. they're the ones helping keeping google, open source, android and everything in between chugging along. open source is the future and you can tell every corporation i said that. and thanks for you your work even though i've never used it.
jago25_98 said:
...
Also just to make that point again, if one does not believe in property then inconveniently there is no moral crime here. I suggest learn to live with this and go with the flow
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There is plenty to disagree with in your post as it all seems like an attempt at rationalizing ways to get around the system. This last statement is a ridiculous attempt at summarizing why stealing is OK. Your morals don't define the crime, the law does. Stealing property, physical or intellectual, is not legal and not right regardless of your morals or lack of.
Chad,
I am sorry to hear of your products' abuse. I used your kernels all the time on my Incredible devices and bought IncrediControl to support development. I have purchased many applications just to support development and believe that is the way to get high quality applications.
Piracy is just so damn easy on Android. I know ppl that are doing it who I wouldn't even expect to be doing such a thing. This guy I know love android only because he can get everything free by just googling the apk.
awww thats sad i feel really bad for you!
I've used pre paid visa debit cards to buy apps. You can find them in Any money shop like Cheque cashing places for example. You can even just stick a dicky diver (£5) on them. Perfect for situations like this
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Hi all,
I am looking into setting up my own online business in unlocking phones via the code method.
Does anyone know the best software I could buy for this which provides support for the most amount of phones? Also has regular updates or nee phones added which are compatible by code unlock?
Thanks
Sent from my XT890 using xda app-developers app
Well your way to late there are like hundred of african shops that do the same on top of running a small corner store. This has been in business for 6 to 8 years.
Still can be done
Sent from my XT890 using xda app-developers app
how to start an iphone unlock business
hey man, im in the same situation! I've been buying and selling iphones and i always come across crazy situations where i need to unlock the phone and id like to add this service to my business, but can't find any solid information on how its done and its preventing me from selling the phones. back in the day i knew how to manually enter the unblock codes for regular cell phones, but i can't figure out the iphone! I don't know if you download some type of software or if you jailbreak it and unlock it somehow from there and then reload the iOS back onto the phone or if you have to have a special machine to hook up to. i also need to know how to get rid of the apple id problem in iOS 7 where if someone didn't deactivate the find my iphone feature before doing a factory restore then you would have to enter an apple id before using the phone. its called activation lock and a guy wiped the phone out somehow with his computer, i believe, and successfully got it to where you can enter a new apple user ID and use the phone. PLEASE, ANYONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO DO THIS STUFF PLEASE LET ME KNOW! Everywhere people ask for help on this ive only seen replies where they get spam links that go to bogus sites that unblock for you. i dont know what im missing to do this but i know its out there because i know a guy who can do it, but im sure he'll think of me as competition because im in his local area. I am a former PC technician, but have moved toward Apple products and it astounds me at how differently they are and are a bit more difficult to figure out that i anticipated. Any help would be appreciated please!
Unlocking
Anyone who unlocks for a decent price 60$ and less for bulk. I would love to work with them. Looking to unlock iPhone sprint and T-Mobile phone. Please contract. Pmaya004 AT yahoo
Dear XDA members,
Please can you help me to unlock my iphone 5 from fido canadian carier because I don't have money right now and it's so high in the market online or stores is about 125 Dollars. I wanna to give it to my fiancee that I love so much as a birthday gift. Please please help help me as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance and looking forward to hear from you soon.
Best regards,
¸
Mouahed
Montreal
Moandro said:
Dear XDA members,
Please can you help me to unlock my iphone 5 from fido canadian carier because I don't have money right now and it's so high in the market online or stores is about 125 Dollars. I wanna to give it to my fiancee that I love so much as a birthday gift. Please please help help me as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance and looking forward to hear from you soon.
Best regards,
¸
Le IMEI number : :good:
Mouahed
Montreal
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Take off ur imei number immediately. No one should know it
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
okey thank you, but can you please help me with issue.
Moandro said:
okey thank you, but can you please help me with issue.
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This site is not for Crapple products. Try using Google to search or our sister site at http://iphone-developers.com/
There is lots of website available on the internet, just Google it. Pick the best site where you can resolve your problem.
@brookeaidan - Not to trole you or anything but I noticed a pattern forming of telling people to just google it. Though its a good suggestion to use google, I'm not saying write pages or something, just be a bit more helpful if your going to post help. Maybe post a link to a google search for them (not everyone is a wiz a google) because this is hard to get into (unlocking or hacking or rooting) the first time but once someone gets a win it's all good for the most part from there on.
I would suggest;
1. example Google search the following or to help resolve the questions in this here thread:
"Iphone"+"unlock" how to similar:xda
Or
"Iphone"+"unbrick" how to similar:iphone-developers
2. If you've got some knowledge to drop or experience to share its a good idea to post it so that the original poster can benefit and all future readers. For example:
When I had to unlock my first phone I first read up on the legalities, the how to(s) and then picked the best rout of action... at that time it was not illegal in the nation I resided and most of the how to(s) where way over my head (at that time) so I found that adding "solved" to the search queries pulled one up on "how to unlock your phone with help from service provider" in that guide it went over the steps of escalating a call without burning bridges and the legitimate reasons that you can give a service provider to assist you with unlocking a device.
Example of escalating the call
Service provider turns a request down
Respond something like
"That's ok <insert name> I won't waist your time further, can you please connect to your supervisor"
When supervisor answers, this is usually after the person you've just talked to has shared some words about you to their supervisor, so be polite but firm with the first person you talked to they'll likely also try to turn you down as well. Don't get impatient here, instead re-state your wishes completely, pause long enough that the supervisor can "grunt" that they've herd you but not long enough that they can interrupt you until you've finished everything that you need to say, if they do interrupt say something like
"I respect your time <insert name> and I need you to listen because this is very important <continue statement>"
When you're telling your story some things to keep in mind; don't lie, don't raze your voice (tention in the voice works far better), know that the first 2 or 3 people you talk to may not have the knowledge or the ability to do what you want so treat it like an adventure
Now for the reasons why a service provider might be cool enough to help you;
~ A family or business emergency, vacation, or trip is taking you out of your provider's coverage without incurring steep roaming charges wile your abroad.
This was the one that worked for me at least and was suggested by others. Make it sound like it could happen soon and let them know that you love your device and your service and don't want to have to leave them just to get a phone that'll work over seas because you love your phone (remember )... most people get it by then and are more apt to be on your side about connecting you to the department that handles unlocking.
So to recap
~ polite but firm and prepared to repeat yourself
~ request to be connected to the person(s) or department that can resolve your issue
~ use the persons name and the names of the persons to talked to before
~ treat it like an adventure
Doing so ensures
~ the person you are talking to is willing to help
~ prevents you from getting turned down and hung up on
~ let's them know that you will remember them, this is powerful when used correctly
~ by being up beet with company represinitives on the phone you can make them really eager to please. Note though; not to be to chatty or friendly as this will drag things out.
Some additional notes about unlocking devices:
I've unlocked many phones (no iphones yet) and two with the above method before doing it with guides and USB and programs or exploits on other devices. Both routs are tedious at times but if you take notes and are persistent you'll find a method that works in either rout.
In all companies the least secure and most flexibility/leverage can be found in the call centers, as a customer it's a good idea to know how to get your moneys worth out of 'em so perhaps look up social engineering (The Art of Deception was an entertaining read) or NLP (Darin Brown can be found on Youtube and it's good for a laugh too. Tools like that when used to get what you want as a customer can make life far quicker and easier even if your not out to exploit something but instead have a legitimate concern. I'm not saying that you should become some kind of mind master but instead take a look at the key concepts and apply them to actively construct a conversation that leads to your goal. After playing round with both ways of unlocking I can say getting a service provider to do it for you is kinda more fun, ya get to make peoples days a bit more interesting (such as when ya get a talker that then clams up because the realize that the conversation is recorded on their end and they've just said... something...) and not stare into a PC screen but instead kick your feet up and let them handle it.
If you go with option 1 and find a guide and unlock your device at home do be sure your not going to get stuck with some kind of fine for breaking a law and be sure to look up guides on how to unbrick and or recover from boot loop; bricks and boot loops happen, knowing how to solve it before it happens makes things so much quicker.
If you go with option 2 be sure to not cancel or suspend your contract or otherwise alter your contract (such as adding international roaming, they tried that one a few times on me, just said "no, thanks though" and moved on) because such things are not needed And if they suggest it then; let them know that you will make contact just before traveling and that "this" call is to ensure that the next rep you talk to has only those steps left to do and that "this" call is to get all the time and technical intensive things out of the way so that you and the next rep are not scrableing to get it done that day. They may suggest all sorts of other solutions, like a pre-paid phone, this is where you loving your phone or needing something on it for business to work comes into play. If one level of supervisor doesn't cut it go higher. And if you're transfered more than twice and had to repeat yourself more than that then on the next transfer ask to be directly connected or to have the person that is trasfering you to stay on the line to help explain why your being trasfered to the new person; this makes it so that you are using duble the resources of the company and most of them know it, so getting you quickly trasfered and the issue explained becomes a priority to the first person you talked to and the second person your about to talk to is being put at ease because someone from their company is explaining things to them before you do (prepping the target) these two forces combined cause you to become viewed as within their circle and leads to them wanting to work with you more rather than just push you down the line. Like I said though don't go lieing to your service provider but know that there are ligit reasons you may have to require your service provider do this.
As with all things you see on the web use at own risk
And happy hacking, whether it be on humans or what they make.
Sent from either my SPH-D700 or myTouch3Gs
Debian Kit/QEMU Linux Install guide for all android devices that I'm writing:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2240397
Now have working Installers for ARM Java 7 JDK + Maptools + jMonkey
Sorry, but there isn't a lot of iPhone development on xda and sooner or later this thread is going to see some heavy anti-iPhone trolling. So thread closed, and please try a website that is specialized for iPhones....like this one: http://iphone-developers.com/