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Hi guys,
so, as there are some possibilities, and the question arised, here's a little poll for you.
It's about how developers and users/testers of Android should best communicate.
Quick overview:
This thread has 4k+ entries now, but many people are watching it. It's more like an IRC channel, though.
The Linux-To-Go site has 4 different trackers (bugs, patches, support, feature requests), and a news system and a little bit more. Sometimes it is quite slow, but since they've just got a new sponsor, I think they're working out how to distribute the load.
I have already asked whether we can have a subforum, and the site admin seemed positive about it, but wanted to see into which directions the Mod's discussions were.
If you have a better idea, please post!
Stefan
I prefer the googlecode bugtracker, since the most people dosnt need to create an new account, it is simple but powerfull. And the ui looks much better then the Linux-To-Go one.
Looks like guys here voting mostly for just subforum. May I suggest in this case that there would be few sticky topics for guides/overall discussion and the rest is topic per bug type-o-thing? Someone would be a moderator, of course.
it doesn't even matter what we / you think - the only votes that matter are the ones of the developers.
git seems to work quite well for developing - if ltg is too slow - it shouldn't be a problem to clone it to a faster repo elsewhere (afaik there's already a faster one in place - can't remember the address) - also after the initial setup it doesn't really matter how slow it is anymore (unless you don't know how to use git and constantly start over from scratch).
As for bugtracking - are there developers interested in bugtracking? I think they're well aware of what needs work.
(e.g. for Polaris it's documented in the wiki)
What we really need at the moment is kernel developers for various devices.
just my 2 ¢
Tip
I don't dislike the idea of a full thread as it was...but i feel we should split threats into 50 posts. After could be "Part II" , "Part III"...etc.
Hugs
excogitation said:
As for bugtracking - are there developers interested in bugtracking? I think they're well aware of what needs work.
(e.g. for Polaris it's documented in the wiki)
What we really need at the moment is kernel developers for various devices.
just my 2 ¢
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Click to collapse
Actually, I suggested a bug tracker, even for developers-internal use because then one can see what the other devs are working on and that one doesn't have to care about the problem...
More developers would be good, of course!!
Stefan
seidler2547 said:
Actually, I suggested a bug tracker, even for developers-internal use because then one can see what the other devs are working on and that one doesn't have to care about the problem...
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Click to collapse
There is more to it. First, more eyes will be able to find more bugs. Second, bug tracker allows instead of keeping all bugs in head, constantly trying to remember them all, keep in head only one on which working currently, while the rest is recorded in database according to their priority. No one has superhuman memory. Also, bugtracking important because people generally happier with product that is with not too many features but robust rather than product with whole bunch of awesomeness but also hosting whole hive of bugs. Here's good article on bugtracking.
Thanks MooNWalker. Seems we should try to push a bit more for a subforum, and use the bugtracker for the reasons you said. We should see if the LTG one can be extended so that people will not have to sign up in order to make contributions. The site itself seems fast right now.
Stefan
Ok, we will try with the bugtracker.
Go here to see the bugs and to enter new ones.
Stefan
@seidler2547: Can you change something there? It is currently not obvious that this is the bugtracker for Kaiser Android. You have to know that this is the right place there. If i was new here and i what to fast post a bug, i will be very confused if the bugtracker is the right one.
Hi lanwin, dzo set up the tracker name. Anyway, it is a bit cryptic because it is not only for Kaiser Android. It is for running Linux (and with it Android) on MSM7x00 devices, that is Kaiser, Nike, Polaris, Vogue and so on. We have a common hardware base, so we coordinate our development. You know you're on the right bug tracker because -> the link here says so, and -> this is the only one in mobile-linux you can report bugs without logging in
Having said that, we can think about the name nevertheless. What do you suggest?
Stefan
Hi Stefan, yep i know that but a non technical user wouldn't do. Even if it is ugly, i suggest "Android for Kaiser, Nike, Polaris, Vogue (MSM7x00)".
Anyway, thanks for bringing Android for this platforms forward!
new sub forum
i think a sub forum is good because it will allow for more specific threads.
it will also allow us to get an rss feed of all things android
finally, can't the current long thread just be moved into the sub-forum? no one will be forced to start or look at new threads, but it will be there.
Does it really affect anything in a negative way or preclude the other options?
Android development is only going to pickup, and i expect we will see a corresponding drop off in WM.
Lets think about what the development scene is going to look like in 2 years... even after we've all moved on from our current phones.
The question is: Can/Should/Will xda-devs be the place for android development too?
seidler2547 said:
Having said that, we can think about the name nevertheless. What do you suggest?
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Click to collapse
Put link to bugtracker in Android on HTC wiki. Might be helpfull to put it in first post on main thread.
I think this bugtracker was for the full Android port, but it seems that it is only for the kernel so all my bugs are closed with "This is not related to this project (Linux kernel for mobile devices) but to the google android user space and must hence be moved.".
Where to report user spaces related bugs?
That is a good question. I have seen the close, but I'm not too happy with it, although I understand the reasons. Maybe we need to make an extra google bugtracker, as someone suggested.
Stefan
I think the original android post has really become quite cumbersome, I voted for a subforum but I don't really care as long as I am able to see what is going on. The old post has become unorganized there are a bunch of different sites and stuff on that post to get builds and kernels and what not from and I have become somewhat confused with it all. I am curious though as to how many people are actually working on this at our end the only one I see actively posting is seidler is dzo or polypoly still working on it. I'm having problems getting some of the files required listed on source.android.com fiqured I would give it a wack, probly a short wack.
seidler2547 said:
That is a good question. I have seen the close, but I'm not too happy with it, although I understand the reasons. Maybe we need to make an extra google bugtracker, as someone suggested.
Stefan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was me I am against a sub forum. Forums are very bad in cases of a bugtracking functionality because there is no bug management available and users tend to use one thread for bug reporting, questions and discussion where it is really hard to find out the bugs for the devs.
I think there should only be one bugtracker for the users because the most of them can not distinguish between user space and kernel space bugs and requests.
I suggest to open a user friendly google code bugtracker and some of the devs move bugs related to kernel space over to the other bugtracker.
1800 devices were sold this week, and I would expect that a good portion of those users will be headed here.
Again, this is just an early report from one user who just got their device, so it could be a one-off. But I would go on the assumption that they are all getting 4349, to play it safe.
To the moderators:
I would highly recommend that the development area be altered ASAP to break up the 1.1 and 1.2 ROMs. I would also recommend that a disclaimer be added to all 1.1 ROMs, including anything CM7 based, that specific steps need to be taken if a 4349 user attempts to use these ROMs. I have been asking for this since April, and I am respectively asking again.
Again, this could just be a one-off user with 4349. But given that one Woot! user has it, and new TigerDirect users have 4349 as well gives me the impression that this could be the norm for all new devices. And I think it's in XDA's best interests to prepare the development site accordingly, given what we know about 1.1 down-leveling.
To the 1.1 devs / modders:
Same request. From someone who had the opposite occur with TNT Lite 5, this is a potentially devastating situation if these users flash your 1.1 based ROM.
To new Woot! users:
You should read this first, please: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1035983 Don't jump into modding until you have confirmed what stock version you have, please.
I agree, If we can prevent a user from flashing the wrong ROM due to their bootloader, we will save many users from needless grief and reduce the number of posts for help to those who really need it.
Roebeet, sure glad to see you back posting and helping...
brookfield said:
I agree, If we can prevent a user from flashing the wrong ROM due to their bootloader, we will save many users from needless grief and reduce the number of posts for help to those who really need it.
Roebeet, sure glad to see you back posting and helping...
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Click to collapse
I think I picked the right week to do so.
This will be the role of the posters of the ROMs/MODs to delineate which bootloader is used, as well as to provide the appropriate disclaimers, etc.
At the end of the day, XDA is a developer site - and all action taken is at your own risk and decision. If users are not willing to fully research their choices the responsibility falls on them for whatever happens. There will be people who help out of the goodness of their heart - but not their responsibility if something fails like the user was warned it would.
Agreed. The SD development sections are much easier to navigate after being segregated into 1.1 and 1.2
jerdog said:
At the end of the day, XDA is a developer site - and all action taken is at your own risk and decision. If users are not willing to fully research their choices the responsibility falls on them for whatever happens. There will be people who help out of the goodness of their heart - but not their responsibility if something fails like the user was warned it would.
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Click to collapse
Isn't this a pretty basic usability issue? This would help new users, but more fundamentally it's just good organization, no?
jerdog said:
This will be the role of the posters of the ROMs/MODs to delineate which bootloader is used, as well as to provide the appropriate disclaimers, etc.
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Click to collapse
I kinda disagree with this statement. In other sub-forums on XDA, they require all posts in the dev section to follow guidelines on the title at the very least. Simply requiring that all posts in that section be classified the same way is all that is needed (with all the disclaimers and everything).
Example:
[Rom][1.2BL] Uber Fake Rom!!1?! (Now with extra frosted flakes) - [1.0 - 6/10/11)
Tostino said:
I kinda disagree with this statement. In other sub-forums on XDA, they require all posts in the dev section to follow guidelines on the title at the very least. Simply requiring that all posts in that section be classified the same way is all that is needed (with all the disclaimers and everything).
Example:
[Rom][1.2BL] Uber Fake Rom!!1?! (Now with extra frosted flakes) - [1.0 - 6/10/11)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that's a good statement - if you notice those posting actual development ROMs/MODs already follow this as a rule of thumb. But it is not an XDA requirement. It has been suggested to Devs that they follow this anyways.
Clean up on "Isle 9" please. I think being structured by bootloader is a great idea. Especially since there are projects now other then Android being worked on. And in the future when Windows 8 is released.
jerdog said:
This will be the role of the posters of the ROMs/MODs to delineate which bootloader is used, as well as to provide the appropriate disclaimers, etc.
At the end of the day, XDA is a developer site - and all action taken is at your own risk and decision. If users are not willing to fully research their choices the responsibility falls on them for whatever happens. There will be people who help out of the goodness of their heart - but not their responsibility if something fails like the user was warned it would.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not simply break out the ROM section, rather than put more of the onus on the developers? The developers already have enough to do with developing and will in all likelihood already advise which bootloader to use. Make it a little easier for them.
We all know that what we do is at our own risk; all that is being asked is to break the ROM section into a 1.1 and 1.2 subforum.
jerdog said:
This will be the role of the posters of the ROMs/MODs to delineate which bootloader is used, as well as to provide the appropriate disclaimers, etc.
At the end of the day, XDA is a developer site - and all action taken is at your own risk and decision. If users are not willing to fully research their choices the responsibility falls on them for whatever happens. There will be people who help out of the goodness of their heart - but not their responsibility if something fails like the user was warned it would.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. The breaking into a 1.1 and a 1.2 sub-forum of the development section seems pretty much critical to avoid any unnecessary headache for XDA gTab users. Saying what you said above is like throwing a 10 year old behind the wheel of a car and saying: "You accept the risks of your own actions, so go ahead and start driving and we'll see where this leads us."
You wouldn't do that under any circumstance, so you provide "buffers" (training, mentorship, test driving, books, etc) which in our case would be the sub-forums separating boot loader types to attempt to put forth a friendly effort to help users avoid a headache.
The sub-forums would look something like this:
Android Development:
General Development (CWM, radios, tools, app dev, etc)
1.1 Bootloader Development (all 1.1 based kernels, ROMs, and misc.)
1.2 Bootloader Development (all 1.1 based kernels, ROMs, and misc.)
Not putting forth the effort to at least provide a somewhat protected atmosphere for the XDA gTab users is negligence. I have been a member of the XDA community in an observer/user fashion for much longer than my membership reflects. From my experience with XDA, I have noticed a trend on the gTab community in more recent times that is not reflected on the other device forums I have utilized (HD2, Tilt, Tilt2, G2, G1, MyTouch, and a few more that I cannot remember). The vast majority of those kept higher and more enforced standards than the gTab forums have lately, but still looked out for the users by putting certain "buffers" and preventative measures into place to try to keep users from messing up their pricey hardware due to negligence.
Yes, negligence on the user's part is their fault by not following some instructions laid out for them, but it doesn't mean that the leadership can't at a minimum provide some buffers out of a good faith gesture. I hope you don't take this in a disrespectful way or anything, just voicing my observation on things I've seen over the past few months and figured as the gTab moderator (even though you're selling yours), you'd probably want to know what the community members of your device forum are observing.
Thanks for your hard work, but this is something that's inevitable and should not be avoided or curtailed for a later date.
jerdog said:
This will be the role of the posters of the ROMs/MODs to delineate which bootloader is used, as well as to provide the appropriate disclaimers, etc.
At the end of the day, XDA is a developer site - and all action taken is at your own risk and decision. If users are not willing to fully research their choices the responsibility falls on them for whatever happens. There will be people who help out of the goodness of their heart - but not their responsibility if something fails like the user was warned it would.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offense, but speaking as a non-1337 who's been dealing with 1337s for years, this post sounds like the typical 1337 attitude.
Dividing up the development section into 1.1 and 1.2 will save many headaches. Noone is here to stroke anyone's ego as a 1337. We're just trying to make the process go as smoothly as possible here.
flipovich said:
I disagree. The breaking into a 1.1 and a 1.2 sub-forum of the development section seems pretty much critical to avoid any unnecessary headache for XDA gTab users. Saying what you said above is like throwing a 10 year old behind the wheel of a car and saying: "You accept the risks of your own actions, so go ahead and start driving and we'll see where this leads us."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're not talking about putting people behind a car. We're talking about people accessing a forum that is for development. Any usage of the forum and the developed solutions presented is at your own risk.
flipovich said:
You wouldn't do that under any circumstance, so you provide "buffers" (training, mentorship, test driving, books, etc) which in our case would be the sub-forums separating boot loader types to attempt to put forth a friendly effort to help users avoid a headache.
The sub-forums would look something like this:
Android Development:
General Development (CWM, radios, tools, app dev, etc)
1.1 Bootloader Development (all 1.1 based kernels, ROMs, and misc.)
1.2 Bootloader Development (all 1.1 based kernels, ROMs, and misc.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a precedent at XDA nor would it be approved. There is some segmentation under a device but that is by OS - not by a bootloader in an OS.
flipovich said:
Not putting forth the effort to at least provide a somewhat protected atmosphere for the XDA gTab users is negligence. I have been a member of the XDA community in an observer/user fashion for much longer than my membership reflects. From my experience with XDA, I have noticed a trend on the gTab community in more recent times that is not reflected on the other device forums I have utilized (HD2, Tilt, Tilt2, G2, G1, MyTouch, and a few more that I cannot remember). The vast majority of those kept higher and more enforced standards than the gTab forums have lately, but still looked out for the users by putting certain "buffers" and preventative measures into place to try to keep users from messing up their pricey hardware due to negligence.
Yes, negligence on the user's part is their fault by not following some instructions laid out for them, but it doesn't mean that the leadership can't at a minimum provide some buffers out of a good faith gesture. I hope you don't take this in a disrespectful way or anything, just voicing my observation on things I've seen over the past few months and figured as the gTab moderator (even though you're selling yours), you'd probably want to know what the community members of your device forum are observing.
Thanks for your hard work, but this is something that's inevitable and should not be avoided or curtailed for a later date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not taken as disrespectful at all. And whether or not I own the device has nothing to do with the level of effort put into the forum. It is not the role of a moderator to police the information and provide checks and balances for the users. It is the role of the developer or poster to do that. Moderators are here to keep threads on topic, keep users from trolling, cleanup spam, etc.
Developers should mark their projects as to the relevance for the user - i.e. [BL1.2] or whatever. It's important for users to be held responsible for their actions and we are a development community - not a hand-holding community.
It is also the role of users to report posts that they see as problematic to the OP and if the OP doesn't make changes then you can bring the moderators in to assist as appropriate. It's also the role of users to help keep things sorted by reporting posts that need moved elsewhere, etc. and to report those who are abusive so that they can be actioned.
My goal was not to ruffle feathers. I'm just stating my concerns and suggestions, whether they are feasible or not.
The newer 1.2 ROMs here on XDA seem to add these differences to their titles and first posts (as mentioned), but my concern is the older 1.1 ROMs, especially ones that were created before this new branch was released. For example, some of the CM7 based ROMs, and even CM7 itself, are not safe to use if you are flashing directly from 4349 stock. And I've also made suggestions in the Cyanagenmod forums, for the same reasons.
And I appreciate the suggestions and involvement. Thanks!
Thanks
I never heard of the g tablet before this week, but the TD Ebay deal was too good to pass up. I got one with 1.2-4349 on it. First thing I did was downgrade it thanks to the heads up info from this forum. With some reading was also able to put Veganginger on it. First attempt, it locked it up when rebooting after a successful install. But again, this forum was right on top of it. I followed the info for using nvflash and got back to a stock rom, ran clockwork again and installed Vegan no problem.
Not much to comment on the tablet itself yet, it just arrived yesterday, but so far its been fun just making the updates.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the info.
I've read through this thread and I do not believe a separate sub-forum is necessary. As such, I am closing this thread before the discussion becomes out of hand.
The differences between the Gtab versions lie in software alone. There is currently a method available to revert to 1.1 using nvflash in order to regain ROM compatibility with 1.1 ROMs. This, coupled with a simple warning as to which bootloader is compatible will ensure that everyone is satisfied.
In the past, we have only given separate development sub-forums for devices where a revision change is tied to a physical hardware change. As this is simply a (reversible) software difference, Jerdog has taken the correct approach by suggesting that the developers and moderators delineate which ROMs are compatible with which bootloaders.
Will Verduzco
XDA Senior Moderation Team
Why has the ''is this necessary'' thread been deleted ? and the other one locked ?
There was more people against this opening of a sub-forum than there was for it.
Please listen to us and remove this tmobile section, It isnt needed, and deleting the threads that wanted this section gone is way out of order.. We didnt break any rules..
This is our section, our phone, We dont need nor want this silly tmobile section.. So please remove it !!
If you think im wrong............Im not, Allow me to open a poll as to whether we should keep it or not ??
c'mon mods be fair ??!!??!!
It got removed because it would just start issues with other members of the forum for people who want it or not same thing with this thread.
This is the wrong section your posting in anyway.
What's so hard about looking in other section and looking in T-Mobile section.
The administrators on the site said they want it as a local moderator just spoke to them about it, Majority want it anyway.
well the poll says different... At least leave this thread for a few days and get some statistics before making a decision.
--
To be fair i agree with azzle here,bit stupid to have some extra thread for tmobile..end of the day this can all be kept in the android dev section. This is daft.
suprised the mod agreed to this anyway,unless he was pm'ed by everyone asking for it,now if thats the case..then fair enough
OK people, i have re-named this thread and moved it to its proper section. I will allow this to continue, unless it turns into a flame war. We all have opinions, i ask you to respect others.
The extra dev section was asked for, and the admin gave it. Its unlikely its going to be removed, so we will have to live with it.
cheers man ! If its what the people want.. Keep it.. I just think its gunna cause so much confusion when development really gets going.. That things would have been better left how they were..
Im all up for the Q&A Section... If there happens to be differences between Tmobile and International version, I will add it to my threads FAQ section...
Reviewers said:
What's so hard about looking in other section and looking in T-Mobile section.
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Click to collapse
Whats so hard of not having that section and making double download links (as rom makers will make 2 different versions anyway).
Let the vote stay here for atleast 2 days, then you can see some "results"
Reviewers said:
It got removed because it would just start issues with other members of the forum for people who want it or not same thing with this thread.
This is the wrong section your posting in anyway.
What's so hard about looking in other section and looking in T-Mobile section.
The administrators on the site said they want it as a local moderator just spoke to them about it, Majority want it anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point is, we have so little development as it is, that splitting the forum into two makes it look like we have even less development, and that could deter people away from the phone and thus more development. Both phones can use both roms so there is no point. If there are small issues such as wifi, we can have stickies.
joshnichols189 said:
The point is, we have so little development as it is, that splitting the forum into two makes it look like we have even less development, and that could deter people away from the phone and thus more development. Both phones can use both roms so there is no point. If there are small issues such as wifi, we can have stickies.
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Click to collapse
True I'm not going to argue with that cause ur right.
but It's not hard looking in both sections.
If there are incompatible features between t-mo-us and the international One S, keep them both, if not, merge them. Or at least rename it t-mo US, as t-mo has presence in other countries as well.
The second tmous thread is not needed, if the dev of the rom would simply add to there title.
[rom][sense 4.0] [tmous/EU] [NAME OF YOUR ROM][ANYTHING EXTRA AOSP/STOCK] [Updated XX/XX/XXXX]
Reviewers said:
True I'm not going to argue with that cause ur right.
but It's not hard looking in both sections.
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Click to collapse
I'm not saying it is, and I usually ventured to the Verizon side when I had a GSM Galaxy Nexus I just don't want development on this device stunted.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda premium
I am going to request another subforum for my own gsm operator. Or maybe even forum for my own mobile :what:
Seriously, this is ridiculous.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Agreed josh. I was told by senior mods that they did it because "it's what users wanted". Well, that's kind of interesting, because we're NOT wanting it, and we're those users. The initial confusion came on launch day, and that was because nobody was familiar with whether the devices differed. Guides simply need to be updated to reflect compatibility. Now, instead, we've got 2 forums, and in an attempt to alleviate the confusion, they have only caused further confusion, because now it REALLY looks like the devices are different when they are in fact NOT.
When a dev gets into modding, one of the obvious questions is "How many different devices do I have to work with here?". Based off our forum layout, it looks like we've got 2 different devices. This could lead developers to believe that there's more work to be done than necessary to achieve compatibility with both.
ndsvic suidas
I am on the fence with this one.
While I agree that if a rom developed for EU works - for the majority - and only does not function on a scale that reaches very select users, then the dual dev section is not needed.
However, in that same logic, if a rom developed that is incompatible with the counterpart phones due to whatever reason, and something happens while it was not labeled as EU/US or TMOUS or whatever tag a dev would use, then that would start a stir in the forum, IMO, deterring users from moving to this phone and potentially hurting development.
While i agree that it should be SOP to label the rom as EU or US, at the very least posting inside the thread if its for EU or US in the download links. Having a split forum this early in the development phase could hurt the growth of the phone's custom roms.
This being my second android phone, I myself am considering taking a shot at developing a custom TMOUS minimalist rom. (running as little as possible and having the bare necessities required to run the phone) Thinking of a battery saver galore build, completely Sense Free.
I came from the Nexus S, and the dev forum was split into 2 forums - 1 for the GSM Nexus S, and 1 for the CDMA Sprint Nexus S 4G.
I was a i9020T GSM model. In the very same forum, mods and devs posted ROMs for i9020T, i9020A (att), and i9023 (SLCD model , mostly overseas). Not once was there ever a problem. I just think it's kind of silly that we're being told "it's what users want", and yet we clearly don't want it, atleast the majority don't. I was told it was to help with new users, but here's the thing....this isnt newbforums.com or something. This is XDA DEVELOPERS. Enthusiasts and the tech crowd come here. I'm not saying new users don't, because we see them every day, but they've got their own issue with getting up-to-speed, and I fail to see how fragmenting the community into 2 dev forums helps alleviate the issue. Newbs will be newbs. They just have to read stuff....
Is it possible that I can agree with everyone? Probably a result of my incessant blind optimism.
Clearly, there is a divide here. Some people want the separate forum, others don't. Both arguments seem to stem from the same desire... to maximize development for their specific phones. I emphasize like crazy with you.
People that don't want the split fear that this will slow development by dividing troops and possibly give the appearance of a lesser interest from the dev community. However, having two sides essentially working on the "same" device may even prove beneficial in the end.
People that do want it are likely "we" Americans who always fear upon a devices release that there will be some minor radio variance that will cause our new, $600 baby to turn paperweight. Having a T-Mo(US) thread gives someone like me, with a lesser experience in the dev world, more confidence to take the leap into modding a device. I'm more likely to set up a dev environment, root my phone, and become more active in the community. The more people willing to get their feet wet should help everyone, regardless of continent, in the end.
Lastly, the apparent lack of interest may instead be a lack of knowledge. What other snapdragon S4 Krait phones have been released? AFAIK, there hasn't been a single device dropped with this chip, so development will be decidedly difficult until HTC makes available their GPL code. They probably aren't terribly eager to give other phone manufacturers the fruits of their labor, and money, by aiding them prep the S4 phones/tablets that will inevitably follow.
I am incredibly eager to sink my teeth into the underbelly of the one S. I can accept that for the time being, customization may likely be limited to sense-based mods, as I for one am certainly unwilling to part with what is one of the most impressive cameras ever released on a phone. But I do incredibly miss my notification pull down power switches.
majalo said:
Is it possible that I can agree with everyone? Probably a result of my incessant blind optimism.
Clearly, there is a divide here. Some people want the separate forum, others don't. Both arguments seem to stem from the same desire... to maximize development for their specific phones. I emphasize like crazy with you.
People that don't want the split fear that this will slow development by dividing troops and possibly give the appearance of a lesser interest from the dev community. However, having two sides essentially working on the "same" device may even prove beneficial in the end.
People that do want it are likely "we" Americans who always fear upon a devices release that there will be some minor radio variance that will cause our new, $600 baby to turn paperweight. Having a T-Mo(US) thread gives someone like me, with a lesser experience in the dev world, more confidence to take the leap into modding a device. I'm more likely to set up a dev environment, root my phone, and become more active in the community. The more people willing to get their feet wet should help everyone, regardless of continent, in the end.
Lastly, the apparent lack of interest may instead be a lack of knowledge. What other snapdragon S4 Krait phones have been released? AFAIK, there hasn't been a single device dropped with this chip, so development will be decidedly difficult until HTC makes available their GPL code. They probably aren't terribly eager to give other phone manufacturers the fruits of their labor, and money, by aiding them prep the S4 phones/tablets that will inevitably follow.
I am incredibly eager to sink my teeth into the underbelly of the one S. I can accept that for the time being, customization may likely be limited to sense-based mods, as I for one am certainly unwilling to part with what is one of the most impressive cameras ever released on a phone. But I do incredibly miss my notification pull down power switches.
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I respect your opinion. Please email HTCdev and express your displeasure at their daily willful GPL violations. That code lawfully belongs in the hands of the open source community.
edited.
See, what we're trying to get at is that there isn't any "flash this version or that version", because there's only 1 version: the HTC One S. Unless you're flashing radios, and custom ROMs should typically NEVER have custom radios unless clearly indicated, then it doesn't matter.
And the Galaxy S was divided into subforums because the actual hardware cofigurations, button layouts, chips, etc, varied quite a bit from model to model, whether it was the international SGS, the T-Mo Vibrant, The Verizon Continuum (vastly different), or the ATT version.
The One S is a single phone, with 2 slightly different radio versions. Other than that radio, they are absolutely identical.
so i plan on getting my gf the samsung galaxy tab 2 7" model
but there is 5 pages of post here, and looks like there is a mix of just wifi units and wifi/3g units so why is there no thread separation, like you get in alot of other sections, hell even some sections have separation of carrier if the radios for the carries are different
it just a little hard to get through all of them, especially when i'm just looking for the wifi models and then i look at a something someone made and its not for the model i'm getting for her
is there any plans on making a separation for the wifi only and the wifi/3g units or no?
I agree, I think they should be separated also. Although the 3113 CAN use 3100 roms, and I believe there are other variations of compatibility. It can still be cumbersome scrolling through incompatible roms.
Sent from my GT-P3110 using xda premium
Doubt any plans to separate. One request for you tho, please don't post question threads in the dev forum. Post question threads in the questions forum. Thx.
allusion said:
so i plan on getting my gf the samsung galaxy tab 2 7" model
but there is 5 pages of post here, and looks like there is a mix of just wifi units and wifi/3g units so why is there no thread separation, like you get in alot of other sections, hell even some sections have separation of carrier if the radios for the carries are different
it just a little hard to get through all of them, especially when i'm just looking for the wifi models and then i look at a something someone made and its not for the model i'm getting for her
is there any plans on making a separation for the wifi only and the wifi/3g units or no?
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Call me old fashioned but I tend to use the forum search engine for navigation and simple question finding. If you had done that , then you would work out that most ROMS are getting merged.Such as 3110/3113 are exactly the same thing and devs are making builds universal now ( see CM10 for an example) In fact you can use any 31xx on any 31xx device (But don't expect a Phone ROM to work on a Wifi only ROM as its hardware not software that makes it ring)
Its ironic that you post about too many threads in the development forum , then post in it asking a question lol. To be honest we are hardly flush with ROMs to choose from in this forum ( No disrespect to any dev intended, just stating a fact)
You are old fashioned
Sent from my GT-P3100 using xda premium
Questions should be posted in Q&A forums, not Development forums.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
See rule #15
Thread moved.
yes i am aware this should of been posted in the Q&A section and slap my hands for it
but i felt after 5 pages of threads some house keeping should of went in place and some sort of separation should of went in
but i also know this kind of question gets ignored in the Q&A section till everyone starts complaining about it
and by that point the house keeping for it gets, well undesirable to be fixed
beyond this time i have behaved and put my questions in the Q&A section unless it was part of the original thread it was in
yes i did use the search engine and that is how i found my first few relevant post, but after the first few that is when i go to the begin of the tree
and then see if there is separation so i'm not going through each search result of not need to look at info
and with what you stating with cross compatible roms, that just means you would have a section for none cross for each in general and the section for cross compatible roms as you point out that its the hardware series in general that makes it possible
but now the major question remains on when or if i will be able to get ahold of one, as most of the places i turn to for my electronics are out of stock of the units, but time will tell
I find it incredibly annoying and cumbersome to go through 2 different forums to view issues/features/apps of the S8 and S8+ since 99% of the posts can pertain to either phone.
I think the Combined S8 Forums should look like this:
S8/S8+ Questions and Answers
S8/S8+ Guides, News, and Discussions
S8/S8+ Themes, Apps, and Mods
S8/S8+ Accessories
Exynos S8 Roms, Kernels, and Development
Exynos S8+ Roms, Kernels, and Development
VZW S8/S8+ Roms, Kernels, and Development
ATT S8/S8+ Roms, Kernels, and Development
Tmo S8/S8+ Roms, Kernels, and Development
Sprint S8/S8+ Roms, Kernels, and Development
You are cutting THIRTY forums down to TEN.
I have the S8 and if I didn't go through the S8+ forums, I would've missed on some great tips and vice versa. For example, I wouldn't have found out about Adhell or Disconnect Pro if I was just browsing the S8+ forums, since it was posted on the S8 forum. Another example is my magnetic wireless charging mod for the S7 edge, which works on both the S7 edge or S7 and any other android phone with wireless charging. If I don't post it in the regular s7 forum, people who don't have the s7 edge and do not browse the s7 edge forum will likely miss out on this. If I choose to remake this guide for the S8, should I just post it in the S8 forums or also the S8+ forums?
Does everything read through both forums? Instead of going through 4 combined forums (Q&A, General, Apps, Accessories), you have to read through 8. That's really a waste of time and why should app devs or accessory creators manage TWO threads where the same question is asked over and over when it was likely asked/answered in the other thread?
If something is phone specific, people usually mention it in the title anyways.
That's like saying merge pixel and pixel XL forum, they r still different phones imo, can you imagine a battery life thread mixed with both s8 sd s8 exynos s8+ sd s8+ exynos ?
Too late now...you should have asked the Admin back in February....
galaxys said:
Too late now...you should have asked the Admin back in February....
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Funny you should say that, I DID ask them in March when both forums were still pretty empty, and they refused.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=71656329#post71656329
Ever since then, all I have seen is duplicate threads in both forums, people getting irritated by having to trawl through 2 sets of forums when 95% of the threads apply to BOTH devices and people getting confused and posting in the wrong forum.....I saw it coming, tried to tell them, and they wouldn't listen to me.
Shuthefrontdoor said:
That's like saying merge pixel and pixel XL forum, they r still different phones imo, can you imagine a battery life thread mixed with both s8 sd s8 exynos s8+ sd s8+ exynos
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You already have battery life threads with people mixing the devices, pretty much all of em. I've already had this argument with people before. If it was ONE forum and TWO threads, people would be much more likely to post in the correct one since they will be right there. The way it is now people will be posting in the wrong one through a combination of confusion over what forum they are currently in, and not being bothered to navigate to the other forum and search for the battery thread in that one.
The hardware is basically identical except for battery size, almost every thread is going to apply to both devices, so instead of having 90% of the threads duplicated in 2 forums, splitting the knowledge in half and forcing people to have to trawl through 2 sets of forums, they could have one set of forums and maybe there will be a few device specific threads in them for things like battery life. You can have a sub forum for each device for firmwares, but all the Q&A and general guides and discussion and accessories forums should be a single set for both devices.
---------- Post added at 18:30 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------
ssgunner20 said:
Thats the most stupid thing ive heard. Why would you want that. They are not the same phone.
Its like me saying on a jeep forum to merge the 3.6 section with the 5.7 and 6.2. Yes its the same shell but differe t vehicle. I dont wanna here about tbe 5.7 or 3.6 if im looking for info on tbe 6.2... catch my drift!
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Are you really that thick? it's the exact opposite of that. its a different shell with the exact same insides! (same engine, same stereo, same pedals, same seats, same satnav, same steering wheel, just a slightly bigger fuel tank in one of them). Jesus there's some dimwits on here.
ewokuk said:
The hardware is basically identical except for battery size, almost every thread is going to apply to both devices, so instead of having 90% of the threads duplicated in 2 forums, splitting the knowledge in half and forcing people to have to trawl through 2 sets of forums, they could have one set of forums
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Except that even in a single forum, most major topics already get spread across a half dozen redundant threads. And within each thread, once it exceeds a single page, most of the posts just repeat what was said earlier, including misinformation that was previously corrected. So the number of redundant forums doesn't really matter much.
ranova said:
I find it incredibly annoying and cumbersome to go through 2 different forums to view issues/features/apps of the S8 and S8+ since 99% of the posts can pertain to either phone.
I have the S8 and if I didn't go through the S8+ forums, I would've missed on some great tips and vice versa. At the very least, every forum except the "roms, kernels, recoveries" should be merged between the two.
If something is phone specific, people usually mention it in the title anyways.
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I agree, Android Central recognized this a month or two ago and merged them. It is much better.
It is easy to point out examples where this would not make sense, but you must ignore the incredible inconvenience of navigating back and forth to even present the argument. The reality is that the s8 and + are remarkably similar.
Based on this logic, we should also have separate forums for snapdragon and exynos devices.
robber said:
I agree, Android Central recognized this a month or two ago and merged them. It is much better.
It is easy to point out examples where this would not make sense, but you must ignore the incredible inconvenience of navigating back and forth to even present the argument. The reality is that the s8 and + are remarkably similar.
Based on this logic, we should also have separate forums for snapdragon and exynos devices.
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well put. Im surprised the poll is pretty even. Do people want them separated just because they think their S8 variant is better than the other?
They are both literally the same, sans display, battery, and now UFS storage (for certain variants). Yes, the exynos version has root and will likely get better rom support, but every other forum (Q&A, Apps, Accessories, General, etc) pertain to both phones. Itd even be better if the admins made the forums separate for the Exynos and the Snapdragon variants since theres more of a difference there than s8 vs s8+. Between the name calling and thought process behind this, I really question a bunch of you. I didnt have a Pixel but the regular and XL forums should've been merged also.
Also, who cares about battery threads. They are mostly useless, and its not difficult to state what s8 you have.
ssgunner20 said:
Oh god, cry me a river...
So maybe samsung should just get rid of the two names and call em s8 regardless of screen sizes, battery...etc.
Think about it, if you take a moment to actually think, what your asking is pointless because look at the other sub-sections this forum has based on carriers. What makes you think people from verizon want to see info from at&t or Tmo? I think every memeber has a right to choose to view what section or sub-sections they choose to view rather than having it forced down their throats.
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No, carrier variants and Rom/development forums should still keep their respective forums. I've updated the OP with what I would suggest for forum merging. I'm saying that the Q&A, Guides/news/discussion, Themes/apps/mods, and accessories (yes even this, if theres a case made for the s8+, there likely is one for the S8 as well) forums should be merged as they all basically pertain to either phone. Your car analogy doesn't work here since cars are extremely more complicated when the engine, trim level, packages are different when it comes to modding, accessories, questions, etc. The s8 and s8+ are basically the same sans the screen size and battery size; it is A LOT more simpler and clear cut than cars when it comes to mods, apps, accessories, etc. The Pixel and Pixel XL should've had those specific forums merged as well.
Nothing is forced down your throat, what you and others are missing is shared knowledge as another user pointed out. I wouldn't have found out about Adhell or Disconnect Pro if I was just browsing the S8+ forums, since it was posted on the S8 forum. Another example is my magnetic wireless charging mod for the S7 edge, which works on both the S7 edge or S7 and any other android phone with wireless charging. If I don't post it in the regular s7 forum, people who don't have the s7 edge and do not browse the s7 edge forum will likely miss out on this. If I choose to remake this guide for the S8, should I just post it in the S8 forums or also the S8+ forums? Does everything read through both forums? Instead of going through 4 combined forums (Q&A, General, Apps, Accessories), you have to read through 8. That's really a waste of time and why should app devs or accessory creators manage TWO threads where the same question is asked over and over when it was likely asked/answered in the other thread?
Once you learn what efficiency and simplicity is, it will make sense. What has been done in the past is not necessary the best way of doing it. Learn from the mistakes and fix it. It amazes me that people would rather separate forums for each different sized phones model (s8+/s8, s7edge/s7, pixel/pixel XL). One is not better than the other, we should join forces and share knowledge, tips, questions, etc.
ssgunner20 said:
Oh god, cry me a river...
So maybe samsung should just get rid of the two names and call em s8 regardless of screen sizes, battery...etc.
Think about it, if you take a moment to actually think, what your asking is pointless because look at the other sub-sections this forum has based on carriers. What makes you think people from verizon want to see info from at&t or Tmo? I think every memeber has a right to choose to view what section or sub-sections they choose to view rather than having it forced down their throats.
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Thread cleaned up and closed.
There is no need to call out names, it? Kindly respect each other other and their opinions.
Secondly, this is not a place to make your request of the centralized forum. You can take it here [All XDA Members] Requests to Moderators and Admins or New device forum requests.
I wouldn't comment on the behalf of admin. But I am pretty sure the admins have a pretty good reason to create separate forums. And they would be glad to address your concern.
Good luck!
Regards
Vatsal,
Forum Moderator.