Database Info

Windows Phone Thoughts

Hello...
I come from old school Windows Mobile (even on a PDA as PocketPC) and pretty much used one until 2010. I kept waiting for Windows Phone 7 but the wait became too long and I decided to go Android.
I've had 3 different Android phones since 2010 and I am currently on the Samsung Skyrocket, which has been the best and most stable Android Phone I've owned. I also have an ASUS Transformer Prime with keyboard and it is a joy to use. I really do love widgets and use them heavily for my tasks, calendar and other at a glance "life notes." I also use OneNote for Android to keep notes and frequently accessed information.
I am also enjoying the Google ecosystem of Gmail, Calendar, Contacts, Reader and other services.
Despite the Tegra processor in my tablet, I don't play a lot of games and I often find that I wish I could do real work on an Android device or even play my "Good Old Games" from GOG.COM on my mobile devices.
However, I am a Microsoft guy. I have a Windows 7 main PC that serves my media to my XBOX. My laptop currently has Windows 8 release preview installed on it. So far, I am liking the ecosystem between Windows 8 and XBOX.
Which brings me to Windows Phone. I have one for work but I've not really made it mine yet. I like most of what I see. Maps do lack when compared to Google Maps and navigation. There isn't a good Google Reader app I've found yet and the YouTube app is pretty bad. However, a lot of these I could live with because I do like the Windows Phone interface and the common ecosystem it will have with Windows 8 and XBOX. I am also Zune owner (we have 3 in our family) and love the Zune player.
Android, in my opinion, is king as far as useful mobile apps and collaboration. I like file level access, apps like DropBox work seamlessly and I love the options on sharing media. But I am really wanting to move to close to one platform as I can. Kind of jarring to go between platforms.
So, all that said, I wanted to hear from other Windows Phone owners on how they like their devices. A few questions:
Will current devices like Titan II and Lumia 900 be upgradable to Windows Phone 8?
I think I will miss being able to change my own battery. If and when a battery needs to be replaced, what is the process? Can a store do it or do we mail it back in?
I'd love to make a Windows Phone my Zune replacement but being limited to 16 GB kind of stinks and I don't want to always have to stream via ZunePass. I have unlimited data but I don't want to become a "top 5%" user.
Thanks for letting me ramble...looking forward to a good discussion. Even if some of you convince me to stay Android...ha.

I wouldn't get too comfy with Zune as it looks like it will be replaced with X-Box Music, It is very difficult coming from a platform which is so customisable to WP7 which is quite closed, No doubt you are aware of the limitations associated with WP7 so I wont bore you with the details, I initially came from using Symbian to Windows mobile 6.1 then 6.5 and now WP7.5, I did find it difficult at first as I was so used to changing backgrounds and checking my files in File Manager etc but now I must admit I don't really miss any of that and am happy having a phone which does not need any tinkering, I find I use my phone less now and only use it when it counts, Before it was a cure for boredom having lots of things to change and I don't miss flashing ROMs or installing CABs,I am not really a heavy business user but my phone keeps my appointments at hand and syncs with my contacts and calender and makes phone calls believe it or not I love the simplicity that I can update where I am and what I am doing with just a couple of swipes, I use Nokia Maps which I find very adequate and Nokia Drive is superb and Free, The way I look at WP7 is that it is an OS in its infancy which will grow and get stronger.

AndyFZ1S said:
I wouldn't get too comfy with Zune as it looks like it will be replaced with X-Box Music, It is very difficult coming from a platform which is so customisable to WP7 which is quite closed, No doubt you are aware of the limitations associated with WP7 so I wont bore you with the details, I initially came from using Symbian to Windows mobile 6.1 then 6.5 and now WP7.5, I did find it difficult at first as I was so used to changing backgrounds and checking my files in File Manager etc but now I must admit I don't really miss any of that and am happy having a phone which does not need any tinkering, I find I use my phone less now and only use it when it counts, Before it was a cure for boredom having lots of things to change and I don't miss flashing ROMs or installing CABs,I am not really a heavy business user but my phone keeps my appointments at hand and syncs with my contacts and calender and makes phone calls believe it or not I love the simplicity that I can update where I am and what I am doing with just a couple of swipes, I use Nokia Maps which I find very adequate and Nokia Drive is superb and Free, The way I look at WP7 is that it is an OS in its infancy which will grow and get stronger.
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Click to collapse
Great reply. I use ZunePass to get the music I want and keep the 10 songs a month. It plays very nicely with my Windows Media Center extender on the XBOX as well.
I am OK with less customization as long as I get USEFUL apps. My most useful apps on Android are a caleder widget, syncing with google tasks, Cozi (has a killer grocery list app), OneNote, Google Reader. I use those the most. There are apps to replace those on Windows Phone and I'll try them out on my work phone. I am sure they may not be AS good but they could prove passable.
I am OK not changing backgrounds and such.
Really, I am more fascinated with Windows 8 tablets than anything else and just kind of want my phone on a like ecosystem. The trick is seeing if I could live with the changes. And the frustrating fact nothing comes higher than 16 GB and can't change battery (Titan II or Lumua 900).

It seems they are all going that way with the non removable batteries, It is a pain but I look at it this way, Most batteries can be charged/discharged up to a 1000 times, Taking into account not many people keep their phones for two years you would have lets say 1000 days usage before any severe battery degradation, That is just a theoretical view of course and I am going on standard rechargeable batteries but it makes me feel a little better about it.
Try and stick with it and do try the replacement Apps, Hopefully it won't be too much of a painful transition for you.

Interesting
I would recomend you look at the recent breakthrough in Titan (1), I came to winphone from 6.5 and now with the recent HSPL breakthrough it is like the good old days again
Mark

Wanting To Go Windows Phone

With Windows 8 and Surface coming out soon and the fact that I've enjoyed Windows 8 on my laptop and it's new ecosystem, I think I may dump Android for WP8.
I know the biggest thing to come up is Apps. Android apps I use on a daily basis or ones I really like are:
Flipboard
Google Reader
Google Maps (and navigation)
YouTube (Official App)
I am tied into the Google ecosystem for my contacts and google services and I know they can be converted to a Microsoft Account. But, I do have a Windows Phone 7 as my work phone and while I love the OS much more than Android, I love the above mentioned apps much more on the droid. I've tried the third party Reader and YouTube apps and they just don't measure up. But I am also ready for one ecosystem and since I already have an XBOX and a Microsoft shop at home, I am ready to go all Microsoft for my mobile world. But so want my apps!
Anyone else face this quandary?

garak0410 said:
With Windows 8 and Surface coming out soon and the fact that I've enjoyed Windows 8 on my laptop and it's new ecosystem, I think I may dump Android for WP8.
I know the biggest thing to come up is Apps. Android apps I use on a daily basis or ones I really like are:
Flipboard
Google Reader
Google Maps (and navigation)
YouTube (Official App)
I am tied into the Google ecosystem for my contacts and google services and I know they can be converted to a Microsoft Account. But, I do have a Windows Phone 7 as my work phone and while I love the OS much more than Android, I love the above mentioned apps much more on the droid. I've tried the third party Reader and YouTube apps and they just don't measure up. But I am also ready for one ecosystem and since I already have an XBOX and a Microsoft shop at home, I am ready to go all Microsoft for my mobile world. But so want my apps!
Anyone else face this quandary?
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Click to collapse
you need to decide what you can do without more.
Personally I don't give too hoots about the apps on any platform which then leave the OS choice its self as the main reason for change, and hence why im on WP7 as well.
If I were you I would consider this, those apps you talk about have alternatives on WP7, so its not like its completely missing, so the question you need to ask yourself is this, is the overall OS and general phone features of WP more important than half a dozen apps that are still available to WP but not quite as youd want?
in my humble opinion again, a WP device is a phone first device, everything else is secondary inc apps.

dazza9075 said:
you need to decide what you can do without more.
Personally I don't give too hoots about the apps on any platform which then leave the OS choice its self as the main reason for change, and hence why im on WP7 as well.
If I were you I would consider this, those apps you talk about have alternatives on WP7, so its not like its completely missing, so the question you need to ask yourself is this, is the overall OS and general phone features of WP more important than half a dozen apps that are still available to WP but not quite as youd want?
in my humble opinion again, a WP device is a phone first device, everything else is secondary inc apps.
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Click to collapse
Well, I understand the apps arguments. If there isn't an app, I can always use the browser. And I really don't care that I have every Angry Birds edition. But it is important to me that the platform is shown some love. I can't imagine why it is so hard for Yahoo! to release a Fantasy Football App for example. It is much easier to use in an app than in a mobile browser.
As mentioned, I have Verizon's one and only Windows Phone for work, the HTC Trophy. It is very lackluster hardware but I am able to get my WP7 fix. I just don't find myself using it much, mainly because I really don't like carrying two devices (often just forward the number to my personal phone.) I took your advice and looked for good, alternative apps:
PrimeTube: Prime tube seems to work quite well as my YouTube app. The Android YouTube app is pretty good but I was quite surprised with this app as it may surpass the Android App. Nice Work.
NextGen Reader: A passable Google Reader app. Kind of generic looking but it does the job. The small screen of the Trophy doesn't help so I imagine it will look good on a larger phone. The mobile web page for Google Reader isn't a bad option either.
Those are the only two I found. I do enjoy playing Madden 12 from time to time on my Android devices. The YouVersion Bible app is good but it is lacking the LIVE notes option.
My next step is to try out navigation on WP7 to see how is measures up with Google Maps. Going on a trip in a few weeks, so will test it. I will also try merging my Google contacts with my live account to see how I like the cloud services that MS offers.
I am also a long time ZunePass subscriber. I am disappointed at the lack of playlist options for streaming music. It if becomes more like Spotify, Microsoft will have a hit on their hands here.
Again, I want WP to succeed but I also don't want to ditch what I am comfortable with. I have a few months until Surface and WP8 are released. We will see what happens when that time comes.

Mobile Operating System Market Share changes

So, I often read articles that "predict" OS market share changes in mobile and I always follow the source links as far back as I possibly can and I NEVER find data or methodology and I'm always curious how in the world they get these numbers. Today I thought it would be interesting to pull up some 2010 data and IDC suggested that by 2014 Android would have 24.6% market share (link at the bottom). Which I found hilarious. So I thought that I'd try to regress an equation using their variables and change the weights on their variables to more accurately depict the market today then run that regression to predict 2015's market shares. But as previously stated, I can't seem to find any of IDC's data or their methodology so I want to do something a little different. I want you guys to tell me one unique aspect (something not previously stated in another post on this thread), that you think would cause change (positive or negative) in a mobile operating system's market share.
I'll start by saying that I think that one variable would be open-source in nature, and that this particular variable would have a positive impact on market share.
http://www.enggjournals.com/ijcse/doc/003-IJCSESP24.pdf

Its from 2010, they were still predicting Android to gain quite a bit of market share by 2014, its just that in reality it happened a lot quicker than they thought. In the fast paced mobile market these things are hard to predict.
From a neutral point of view here is what I see happening over the next few years. Android will continue to rise but will eventually start leveling out as the market becomes saturated. The iPhone is already leveling out and will may see a reduction in percentage of the market share. There was recently a report that Apple has slashed orders for iPhone parts possibly meaning demand is not rising like it once was. See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-5...-drop-lingers-following-iphone-parts-reports/ Windows Phone will gain market share as it uses the popularity of the desktop Windows 8 to lure users into the Microsoft ecosystem.

spunker88 said:
Its from 2010, they were still predicting Android to gain quite a bit of market share by 2014, its just that in reality it happened a lot quicker than they thought. In the fast paced mobile market these things are hard to predict.
From a neutral point of view here is what I see happening over the next few years. Android will continue to rise but will eventually start leveling out as the market becomes saturated. The iPhone is already leveling out and will may see a reduction in percentage of the market share. There was recently a report that Apple has slashed orders for iPhone parts possibly meaning demand is not rising like it once was. See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-5...-drop-lingers-following-iphone-parts-reports/ Windows Phone will gain market share as it uses the popularity of the desktop Windows 8 to lure users into the Microsoft ecosystem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think everyone agrees that Android has to lose market share and Apple has to, at the very least, stop growing (if not lose market share) if any other competitors are to enter/grow within the space. I agree with all of your points completely. My aim is to try to build an equation that can quantify these market changes.
"... uses the popularity of the desktop Windows 8 to lure user into the Microsoft operating system." That made me smile =]

iLiberate said:
"... uses the popularity of the desktop Windows 8 to lure user into the Microsoft operating system." That made me smile =]
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Click to collapse
Windows 8 may not be very popular right now, but Microsoft has around 80-90% of the desktop/laptop market IIRC with most of the users on Windows 7 and XP for now. If Microsoft can use its desktop market share to get people familiar with the new Windows ecosystem they have a chance at making Windows Phone more popular. Its a pretty large gamble though because they have changed quite a bit with Windows 8 and we'll have to see how the market responds.
Personally I'd love to see Microsoft make a Intel Atom SoC phone that runs Windows Phone 8 but docks into a full x86 Windows 8 system running entirely off the phone hardware giving users the ability to not only run Windows Phone apps, but also run all of the x86 Windows programs. Now that Microsoft has moved WP8 over to the NT kernel this may be more of a realistic possibility.
Granted current Atom SoCs aren't that powerful, but Intel just announced the quad core Atom codename Bay Trail SoC. Imagine a future where companies give give their employees a Windows Phone instead of a laptop and they use a phone dock to turn the phone into a full desktop that can run all of their proprietary Windows programs.

Let's be realistic. It's almost impossible for anyone to predict what is going to happen in the mobile market.

metro/modern app wish-list for win RT

VLC player - nearing completion
Facebook
Please also mention if the app on your wish list is already a windows phone 8 app. I will try to compile the most requested apps in this initial post.
After making this post, I discovered this nice table of the 100 "most popular" apps on iOS and if they are available for windows phone or windows 8:
http://www.infragistics.com/communi...-ios-android-windows-phone-amp-windows-8.aspx
I still think there are other apps worth mentioning. I'm also curious which of the apps the users on XDA would like to see the most. So feel free to post your support if you like an app that someone else has suggested.

Onlive
VLC
PayPal
Chrome
Steam
Sky Go
BBC Iplayer
There are so many it's quite hard to write them all down.

Onlive
-- never heard of this. Is it useful?
Chrome
-- I think this is unlikely to happen given the Microsoft vs Google war going on
Steam
-- interesting. Also had not heard of this. EDIT - see later post by "Good Day to Die" explaining why this seems impractical
Sky Go
BBC Iplayer
-- Both are very interesting. I think if enough people pressure the BBC then they will make an app.
There are so many it's quite hard to write them all down.
-- I think it is super useful to write these down. Trust me, this is a useful mini-project

You are not, I take it, a gamer? Not having heard of OnLive is understandable (people actually use that?) even though it would actually suit RT quite well. Not having heard of Steam is really, really weird. On the other hand, there is simply no point to having Steam on RT; you couldn't actually *run* anything. You could buy stuff and manage Friends lists and so on, sure, but you could do that from the website just as easily and with less downloading. I can *maybe* see the point of such a crippled Steam app on a phone, where website UI is difficult to use, but it should be quite usable on a tablet...

Well it's not really a Windows 8 app, but Spotify, but I take that's not an open source API?
Dropbox, but I suspect it would be closed off source also.

bigsnack said:
Well it's not really a Windows 8 app, but Spotify, but I take that's not an open source API?
Dropbox, but I suspect it would be closed off source also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are making a wish-list of closed source apps. That is the first step.

Well then if that is the case:
Adobe Lightroom(even if it is an express version).
Windows Media Player Classic
Flipboard

At home finances
Quicken would be at the top of my list.

I have so many to wish!
VirtualBox
Steam
OnLive
Google Chrome
Minecraft
Its not an app but an OS. Ubuntu!
Sent from my Carbonized Blaze

Someone else did his homework with the same idea.http://www.infragistics.com/communi...-ios-android-windows-phone-amp-windows-8.aspx

I'm skeptical of the point of VirtualBox; you want a VM platform on ARM? I can see the desire to dual-boot, and I can see the desire for an emulator when you *really* need to run some code from some other architecture (or are trying to run something so low-footprint that it runs OK when emulated on a relatively weak CPU), but virtualization... why? VirtualBox on RT would not be able to run x86 VMs; it's not an emulator. You think Ubuntu for ARM would virtualize nicely alongside RT? Highly doubtful.
Also, again with the Steam. Steam offers exactly zero games which are compiled for ARM. Everything else useful that the app could do, you could do from the web site. I don't see the point. If you want to ask Valve to port their games to ARM, and encourage others to do the same, *that* would make sense - some of their slightly older stuff, like TF2, would probably play fine on RT - but Steam itself would be pointless.
Please, people - if you want a list like this to be taken seriously, be serious about (and put some thought into) your requests. Minecraft makes sense, for example; it's highly popular, the hardware can handle it, and it would be viable to port it. Chrome makes sense for the same reason (I really need to take another shot at that). Ubuntu even makes sense. Lightroom might be a bit of a waste on the hardware that your typical RT device has, but it could be useful and is not impractical to port.
Don't waste your time on pointless requests, though; that will just lead to you (and the platform you're asking for support on) being completely dismissed.

bigsnack said:
Spotify,.
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Apparently, the spotify website on windows RT is free. the app would cost money. Do we really want to lose the free website access?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2374692

I am using it on the web at the moment(on the desktop browser since the Metro one doesn't support music in the background). But, I was thinking that maybe the RT app would be more like their desktop app, i.e. free with ads, and not like their mobile app, radio only.

Okay, because you asked for my whole list here it is; (Some games Inc.)
Online (Cloud gaming)
VLC
PayPal
Chrome
Steam
Sky Go Sports
BBC Iplayer
Block Fortress
Worms
Bloons TD 5
Rise alarm clock
Youtube?
Google maps
GTA 3/VC
VLC Streamer
Sims
Nike + Running
Walking Dead
Now TV
Ubuntu One
Capital FM
Jelly Car 1,2&3
Real Racing
Drop box
Opera
Speedtest
D-Link Share Centre
MotoGP
Instagram
Gmail
Mail.com
Santander
Utorrent or Bittorrent
Photoshop
XDA Developers
ITunes
Devolo

Dane Reynolds said:
Okay, because you asked for my whole list here it is; (Some games Inc.)
Online (Cloud gaming)
VLC
Paypal
Chrome
BBC Iplayer
Bloons TD 5
Youtube?
VLC Streamer
Gmail
Mail.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gmail and Mail.com both work in the included mail app, probably 3rd party mail apps on store already.
VLC has had a very successful kickstarter for a windows 8/RT port and is currently under development. I presume this includes streaming.
Youtube I think has an official app. Otherwise, there are plenty - and I mean plenty - of 3rd party alternatives. My favourite on my x86 desktop PC is metrotube which I think is also available on ARM. Otherwise, you've got a full blown desktop based web browser on RT, not some ****ty mobile browser. It can cope with youtube fine.
OnLive I thought went bust, screw that. But if its not gone bust, then that is definitely a good suggestion.
BBC IPlayer, browser.
Bloons TD5, browser.
Paypal. Browser, but is fair enough as a metro app.
Chrome. On x86 systems if you install chrome, set as default browser, click to open the menu in the top right and there is an option to relaunch as a metro app. Microsoft have banned web browsers from the store though so there is no hope of an official chrome port. Chromium for jailbroken systems may eventually happen but whether that would include the relaunch as metro functionality or not I have no idea. But the gist of it: on x86 its been done.
Some of your others are either fair enough suggestions or you can use browser.
My personal wish list might be just as far fetched sadly, or it may not.
Cave story
Minecraft (suggested already, not happening according to mojang)
Halo combat evolved
Halo 2
Halo 3
Halo wars (actually I imagine that being playable with touch alone, as a mouse/keyboard based game it would be pretty poor though)
Halo Reach
Halo 4
Halo ODST
ok, so I love halo, don't kill me for it. Just to make some other people happy:
Call of duty
Battlefield (I loved 2 actually, didn't mind the first bad company either)
I also want microsoft to lift the restrictions on COM ports (ie, they don't allow access from an app and I think they should) and network connections to localhost (I seriously dont get what harm there is in using localhost, why block from a store app). Even if it requires adding new permissions to do so.

Just Four
Minecraft
Quicken
Waze
Endomondo

is there an official XDA forum app from windows RT?
I'm starting to get sick of the advertisements on the IE 10 modern browser and occasional crashing of IE 10 modern that this XDA forum website causes....

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Gmail and Mail.com both work in the included mail app, probably 3rd party mail apps on store already.
VLC has had a very successful kickstarter for a windows 8/RT port and is currently under development. I presume this includes streaming.
Youtube I think has an official app. Otherwise, there are plenty - and I mean plenty - of 3rd party alternatives. My favourite on my x86 desktop PC is metrotube which I think is also available on ARM. Otherwise, you've got a full blown desktop based web browser on RT, not some ****ty mobile browser. It can cope with youtube fine.
OnLive I thought went bust, screw that. But if its not gone bust, then that is definitely a good suggestion.
BBC IPlayer, browser.
Bloons TD5, browser.
Paypal. Browser, but is fair enough as a metro app.
Chrome. On x86 systems if you install chrome, set as default browser, click to open the menu in the top right and there is an option to relaunch as a metro app. Microsoft have banned web browsers from the store though so there is no hope of an official chrome port. Chromium for jailbroken systems may eventually happen but whether that would include the relaunch as metro functionality or not I have no idea. But the gist of it: on x86 its been done.
Some of your others are either fair enough suggestions or you can use browser.
My personal wish list might be just as far fetched sadly, or it may not.
Cave story
Minecraft (suggested already, not happening according to mojang)
Halo combat evolved
Halo 2
Halo 3
Halo wars (actually I imagine that being playable with touch alone, as a mouse/keyboard based game it would be pretty poor though)
Halo Reach
Halo 4
Halo ODST
ok, so I love halo, don't kill me for it. Just to make some other people happy:
Call of duty
Battlefield (I loved 2 actually, didn't mind the first bad company either)
I also want microsoft to lift the restrictions on COM ports (ie, they don't allow access from an app and I think they should) and network connections to localhost (I seriously dont get what harm there is in using localhost, why block from a store app). Even if it requires adding new permissions to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do you have a link to where Mojang states that they refuse to make the game minecraft for windows RT?
Mint.com didn't want to make windows phone or RT app for ages, but enough people on the forum convinced them otherwise....

med007 said:
do you have a link to where Mojang states that they refuse to make the game minecraft for windows RT?
Mint.com didn't want to make windows phone or RT app for ages, but enough people on the forum convinced them otherwise....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no link no but when windows 8 came out notch posted a few mini rants on twitter about how windows is moving to a closed platform and how they refuse to submit minecraft to any sort of verification process (blatent lie as it has the same for android, IOS and xbla). Carl manneh then backed that up stating that mojang will not be submitting minecraft to windows 8.
Even if they did want minecraft on the Microsoft store, they couldn't use the existing minecraft desktop version, its java. The store only allows .NET, HTML5/JS and C/C++ software, no java. If you did see minecraft for windows 8 and RT it would either be a modified pocket edition (pocket edition uses a C library with many common functions and then wraps this library into android and IOS apps, same could apply to RT in theory) or a new version based from the xbox version which is C# and XNA supposedly (not been confirmed but without full developers hardware that's all 3rd parties can use, its never been confirmed if 4j studios have the developers hardware or use xna, if they do use anything else it would be C/C++ again). C# is fine on RT but there is no XNA on the windows store so new render code would be required, or they could swap to monogame but to my knowledge monogame is Windows 8 on x86 at the moment and doesn't have an arm version (might be possible to port) but is allowed on the store.

Windows RT - re: Microsoft Leave Us Alone

First off, it is silly that I cannot post a reply straight into the thread, and have to create a new thread in an unrelated area of the forums, as I am a new user (or have less than 10 posts).
Ok, as regards the Windows RT and lock down of the Desktop Applications development, how do the internal programs get past this block? As per many other comments it would appear that Windows RT is a recompilation of Windows 8 and has many like for like .dll's, etc. If the Office 2013 suite can run under the desktop, is it because Microsoft has signed the app with a certificate that is not available to other developers? Does this mean that under the previous EU ruling they are breaching some law in that they are using resources to give themselves an advantage that other developers cannot take advantage of?
I think the only reason they have locked down Windows RT like this is so that this cheap OS does not eat into their regular Windows 8 sales. Certainly I bought a Windows RT device because it is more compatible with my work habits (due to Office 2013) than the Android and iPads I have used in the past. If I could easily use tools like PuTTY, then there would be little reason for me to use a normal laptop or other device.
I doubt Microsoft really watches these discussions in any serious way, but one of the key reasons I chose Windows RT over Android and iPad is because when I need the flexibility of many windows open at the same time and side by side I can do that, but when I want the uncluttered quick environment then New UI does that as well.
Samsung, with Android, is starting to allow a couple apps together, but try to run an Excel Spreadsheet and read your banking web site at the same time to transpose the figures into your budgeting file, and iPad/Android are tedious but Windows RT is a breeze, it is what Windows does best. Microsoft should understand that apart from everything else they do, they provide an OS and should let developers get the most out of that OS, just like Android and iPad developers can push those OS's.

oucarso econcomy
What's more awesome is that new users can't post outside links either. This might be of interest to you www[dot]makeuseof[dot]com/tag/how-to-jailbreak-your-windows-rt-device-and-run-unapproved-desktop-software/

Thanks for the link
My post came as a result of researching the Jail Break idea, I had not seen that page yet. I downloaded the patch and it worked very well. Pity it does not detail why the program goes to the internet the first time it is run, but I assume it is to get the certificate?
Seems like most posters are really happy to have PuTTY working (which is exactly what I wanted). Is it hard to create a New UI App?, maybe someone just needs to compile PuTTY as a New UI app as a terminal emulator should be pretty straight forward.
While I understand that new Intel chips are just around the corner, Surface RT is only $400.00 (64Gb, Touch keyboard) so pretty cheap, so being able to sit on the couch and browse emails, internet and also manage my Linux boxes is really good.
I can do the same thing on my Android TAB, but it is tedious changing screens all the time. New UI has the same problem, always flicking between all the programs. This is what Windows does best, so don't understand why MS would take away from that tried and true model, except they are probably trying to protect their full Windows 8 investment. Instead what they will find is the Windows RT dies a quick death and that is a wasted investment (if that happens they should have just made a New UI only version and got Office to work within that environment if Office is the main reason for the Desktop in Windows RT).