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Wife just bought a Charge (upgraded from Droid 1). I started looking for ROMS to install on her phone, and all I see is the OTA ROM modded/rooted. No custom built ROMs? Any reason why the dev community shunned this device?
Never really got recognized and most people are jumping to bionic razor or nexus a few more Tom's on rootzwiki.com some are found here gummy charged humble infinity most deb's are there though
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
The search function would answer your question. We don't have AOSP ROMs because we don't have source for the RIL. Official Gingerbread only came barely two weeks ago.
Will we get AOSP, maybe, maybe not. Just run one if the ROMs we already have. They are great. Develop if you want AOSP. Or wait and hope.
It even tires me hearing this over and over, just imagine how a dev would feel.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA App
I would recommend returning the Charge and getting the Nexus. I had the charge since May and I am so glad to have left it behind. Finally being on an AOSP phone is so refreshing.
Sent from my Verizon Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Threads like this make me want to rage.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using xda premium
Agreed over repeated over and over probably at least 25 threads similar to this problem is so many noons no enough senior members be easy on him though we were all noons at one point remember ;-)
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
Maybe sticky a thread then, explaining why there is no AOSP for the charge.
If you search the "Verizon Droid Charge" sub forum for AOSP there isn't really any threads saying why there is no AOSP, mostly a bunch of threads saying "it's coming", or AOSP parts for the non-AOSP Charge ROMS. What else was I supposed to search for?
Even if it was stickied people would most likely post it anyway
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
bfitzpatrickd2d said:
Even if it was stickied people would most likely post it anyway
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bet there would be less posts.
bfitzpatrickd2d said:
Agreed over repeated over and over probably at least 25 threads similar to this problem is so many noons no enough senior members be easy on him though we were all noons at one point remember ;-)
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I was a noob at one point...for about three days
Sent from my GT-P1000 using xda premium
robojerk said:
Maybe sticky a thread then, explaining why there is no AOSP for the charge.
If you search the "Verizon Droid Charge" sub forum for AOSP there isn't really any threads saying why there is no AOSP, mostly a bunch of threads saying "it's coming", or AOSP parts for the non-AOSP Charge ROMS. What else was I supposed to search for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
would be nice but the devs we have working on aosp either don't post here on xda much or aren't making enough headway at a time to make it worth a thread
bfitzpatrickd2d said:
Even if it was stickied people would most likely post it anyway
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this
robojerk said:
I bet there would be less posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol nope we still have tons of threads/posts asking for instructions and where to get roms when its stickied in development (though I will admit they may be dated but still are relatively useful)
kvswim said:
Yes, I was a noob at one point...for about three days
Sent from my GT-P1000 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol noob
Noob yourself!!!
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
bfitzpatrickd2d said:
Noob yourself!!!
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOOB EVERYONE!
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
Planning on returning the phone.
Tried several ROMs, each had their own little to major issues . I'm not even sure if this phone will even get ICS considering it didn't even get an "official" Gingerbread until a month ago.
It even looks like the Motorola Droid Classic will get ICS.
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/22/...la-droid-android-ice-cream-sandwich-pre-alpha
robojerk said:
Planning on returning the phone.
Tried several ROMs, each had their own little to major issues . I'm not even sure if this phone will even get ICS considering it didn't even get an "official" Gingerbread until a month ago.
It even looks like the Motorola Droid Classic will get ICS.
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/22/...la-droid-android-ice-cream-sandwich-pre-alpha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't seem to have any issues with stock deodexed/debloated. We've had Gingerbread for a long time via leaks.
Enjoy your new phone. The Charge is by far my personal favorite phone. Different strokes for different folks.
robojerk said:
Planning on returning the phone.
Tried several ROMs, each had their own little to major issues . I'm not even sure if this phone will even get ICS considering it didn't even get an "official" Gingerbread until a month ago.
It even looks like the Motorola Droid Classic will get ICS.
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/22/...la-droid-android-ice-cream-sandwich-pre-alpha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The galaxy nexus is absolutely wonderful . Also please don't get a RAZR lol!
yes we know the phone has no real big development going on but hey at least there's 2 ROMS to chose from..sad i know but that's what were working with over here...this post is so last month..return ur phone and get a nexus if you want lots of development.
Return the Charge and get the Nexus, it's worth the money.
Definitely returning now. Timidly getting Nexus.
Thanks Samsung for making it easy!
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/23/2657492/samsung-touchwiz-fails-customers
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/23/2651347/a-good-smartphone-comes-but-once-a-year
robojerk said:
Definitely returning now. Timidly getting Nexus.
Thanks Samsung for making it easy!
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/23/2657492/samsung-touchwiz-fails-customers
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/23/2651347/a-good-smartphone-comes-but-once-a-year
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That editor sounds like an applefag.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using xda premium
Could we at least get a 3g only port, from maybe the inc2 since they are somewhat similar as far as processors, etc? I'd hit thanks all day and maybe dig in my bank account for a donation.
Sent from my bright touchy screeny Thunderthingy
I'm pretty sure they're working on it....
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
The Liquid Dev I spoke to said the Liquid Team is working on the radio issues.
I'm a big fan of Liquid ROMs, so hopefully they overcome the issue quickly,
but good work takes time and Liquid Smooth 3.2 has been an awesome ROM
to run while I/We wait..
+1 on liquid 3.2
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using Tapatalk
Ill take anything with data about now but Liquid and Twisted are my Rom's of choice when they come out.
twisted is my choice, he keeps it updated about everyday.
The good news is that it seems there is a rom with working data coming soon.
The 'bad' news is that it seems to be liquids rom.
Hopefully twisted can borrow it since his version works best for my phone.
if they sort the data out does that mean we hopefully will get ICS , miuiV4 and oakp(kang one protekk built) working possibly?
I hope twisted gdts it. I personally cant afford to buy(donate) just for the opprotunity to use a rom. With the wife out of work, supporting 2 kids, and the economy, every penny i already earn is accounted for. Things are very hard for us right now.
Sent from my HTC Mecha using XDA App
johny101010 said:
The good news is that it seems there is a rom with working data coming soon.
The 'bad' news is that it seems to be liquids rom.
Hopefully twisted can borrow it since his version works best for my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn dude, was that a shot at Liquid or what? Sure sounded like it. Liquid aosp are far and away better than any other aosp out there.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
deno24 said:
Damn dude, was that a shot at Liquid or what? Sure sounded like it. Liquid aosp are far and away better than any other aosp out there.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats just your opinion, people vary on "best". I prefer thundershed for aosp
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
donnyp1 said:
Thats just your opinion, people vary on "best". I prefer thundershed for aosp
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
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Click to collapse
agreed. everybody has an opinion. If a dev cant take a shot, then they dont need to be deving. I personally have been back on the OG Rom rooted and deodexed for a few months now. I just got tired of ROMs with stuff not working.
Props to all the devs for what they do, but partially working ROMs just dont cut it for me. So I have been back on the OG rom for a few months now and very glad I did.
deno24 said:
Damn dude, was that a shot at Liquid or what? Sure sounded like it. Liquid aosp are far and away better than any other aosp out there.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 ?
Don't use it I guess when it comes out. I'd like to hear what's wrong with his current roms thou
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using Tapatalk
Og rom which one would that be
Sent from my Thunderbolt using XDA App
deno24 said:
Damn dude, was that a shot at Liquid or what? Sure sounded like it. Liquid aosp are far and away better than any other aosp out there.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but OMFGB is king in the AOSP world.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
nativi said:
Sorry but OMFGB is king in the AOSP world.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again, another opinion.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Good news for me about the liquid rom, I have been using v3.2 for a few weeks now with no problems, and am excited for an ICS version . . .
I am coming from the mr2 (ril?) version of froyo, which I've been using since the summer . . .
I'll have to check out the others mentioned in this thread if I run into problems
nativi said:
Sorry but OMFGB is king in the AOSP world.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used OMFGB for a long time. Recently though, I've changed to Thundershed and couldn't be happier. A lot of the same stuff, but with some newer enhancements and updates (OMFGB, for example, doesn't even have the locations fix built in as it hasn't been updated in...well, this year, maybe).
Seems like the Dev support for this phone is going downhill fast, I was wondering if anybody new where to find the link for romracers 0.3 kernel could be found?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Sorry but......your kidding right? And the link for the kernal you want is in the op of the kernals thread in dev section
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
This is all I got
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
That's the response I expectected...but thanks for pointing to the 0.1 kernel! The 0.3 kernel (now called rom racers kernel was there) everyone is not a noob just cause they have a valid question...I've had this phone since the week it came out in November, I've rooted devices from a Nook Color to a Super Pad, and all those in-between. I actually exchanged my 4S for a skyrocket..(best thing I ever did) Ive flashed every rom and tweak for this device. I just get sick of idiots trying to make ppl look stupid for asking a valid question on these forums..:beer:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
i would have to agree with you. i haven't had the phone for nearly as long as you have but from browsing around xda (specifically gs2 and here) i have to notice that by comparison development is much slower in this section.
disclaimer: this is by far not a complaint, just an observation. i love the development that IS currently taking place and am very appreciative of it.
What about search lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
In the HTC vivid section all the devs left. So this forum still has life.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
I think dev work is kinda slow on alot of phones right now. I know it has slowed down on my nexus s because a lot of them are waiting for the new sources of ICS to be released. A lot of the developers are doing great work. I think once ICS rolls out it will take off. IMHO.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
toyfj2k7 said:
I think dev work is kinda slow on alot of phones right now. I know it has slowed down on my nexus s because a lot of them are waiting for the new sources of ICS to be released. A lot of the developers are doing great work. I think once ICS rolls out it will take off. IMHO.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true nobody wants to support a large project on gb when ics is getting closer
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
Oh no! If I was misunderstood I apologize...I was not complaining at all...I know the hard work that goes into such things..I was merely expressing my feelings for a great device that is overlooked in most ways!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
immor2al said:
Oh no! If I was misunderstood I apologize...I was not complaining at all...I know the hard work that goes into such things..I was merely expressing my feelings for a great device that is overlooked in most ways!
EDIT: wasn't trying to troll you to hard bro but it was so open
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overlooked no its just hard to support a device if people don't own it the allure isn't there cuz lte isn't widespread so most have the gs2 and cm only has one Guy with one and its a work device for him
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
Very true, hopefully the best is yet to come...All this ICS madness is driving me nuts...but hence the fun in it as well!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
immor2al said:
That's the response I expectected...but thanks for pointing to the 0.1 kernel! The 0.3 kernel (now called rom racers kernel was there) everyone is not a noob just cause they have a valid question...I've had this phone since the week it came out in November, I've rooted devices from a Nook Color to a Super Pad, and all those in-between. I actually exchanged my 4S for a skyrocket..(best thing I ever did) Ive flashed every rom and tweak for this device. I just get sick of idiots trying to make ppl look stupid for asking a valid question on these forums..:beer:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do apologise. Kinda sounded like you were ranting on our devz. But now I'm confused about what kernal your looking for? Maybe I've missed something. Sorry again.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1380682
CD don't worry its in his thread you were right
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
I wouldn't say activity is slowing. Although new releases are fewer now, there is plenty happening as far as cooperation and collaboration is concerned.
billownz said:
I wouldn't say activity is slowing. Although new releases are fewer now, there is plenty happening as far as cooperation and collaboration is concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sir are correct
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk
its because everyone wants ICS.. and ppl are tired of the same old
mhx said:
its because everyone wants ICS.. and ppl are tired of the same old
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this x 1000, and said by a dev lol
I feel pretty good about what we have now. ICS will come eventually, who knows when exactly but it will come. I have two other android phones and a tablet that all run ICS very smoothly. But I still choose this gingerbread runnin beast everyday over all the others. In my humble opinion, there will definitely be some frowning faces on the day ICS is officially released for our device.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Honestly its all just hype. ICS will come out and within 6 months we will be jumping to the next firmware. I think the community should put more focus on fully customizing and enjoying the capabilities of gingerbread. I really don't think we will be satisfied otherwise. That's why devs get turned off to making ROMs. They make something awesome and we use it for a week and then want more. So much greed!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA
I've searched and search, but I see nothing about CM development for the 'Bolt for ICS or JB. Has anyone picked up that torch yet? Has it been deemed too large of a project, or just no interest? And of course, if I've missed something, please feel free to give me a swift kick to the head.
Tiezane said:
I've searched and search, but I see nothing about CM development for the 'Bolt for ICS or JB. Has anyone picked up that torch yet? Has it been deemed too large of a project, or just no interest? And of course, if I've missed something, please feel free to give me a swift kick to the head.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am wondering the same thing. Is the ICS leak enough to get some CM9 or CM10 builds going?
Once the ril is adapted to work with aosp I suspect there will be stuff kicking again
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
This doesn't need to be in the development thread. Think about it before you post. If you got a question post it in q and a.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Seriously?
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
disconnecktie said:
This doesn't need to be in the development thread. Think about it before you post. If you got a question post it in q and a.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My apologies if I posted in the wrong section, since I was specifically asking about CM development potential, I thought this would be right. I've never claimed to be more than a half-witted n00b. So just to be sure, if I were actively working on CM, it would be ok to post about the progresses there?
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
gammaxgoblin said:
Seriously?
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that is directed at me, yes, it was a serious question.
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
Tiezane said:
My apologies if I posted in the wrong section, since I was specifically asking about CM development potential, I thought this would be right. I've never claimed to be more than a half-witted n00b. So just to be sure, if I were actively working on CM, it would be ok to post about the progresses there?
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have a rom in the works yea go for it. But the op should have stated that the rom was in the works at the very least. There is no point in cluttering the development thread with q and a. As far as I know there isn't official cm9 or 10 development for this phone. I'm sure someone will pick it up (probably workshed).
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
disconnecktie said:
If you have a rom in the works yea go for it. But the op should have stated that the rom was in the works at the very least. There is no point in cluttering the development thread with q and a. As far as I know there isn't official cm9 or 10 development for this phone. I'm sure someone will pick it up (probably workshed).
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, and sorry again. I promise to cast off the shackles of newbishness soon!
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Tiezane said:
Thank you, and sorry again. I promise to cast off the shackles of newbishness soon!
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its no big deal. All the noobs have come out now that ics has dropped and its kind of frustrating.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
In my defense, I've been around on here and the nook color forums for months now, but still wet behind the ears when it comes to figuring out which forums to post in
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
Tiezane said:
In my defense, I've been around on here and the nook color forums for months now, but still wet behind the ears when it comes to figuring out which forums to post in
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we all have at least once. Its hard not to sound like a douche when you tell people they posted in the wrong forum.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
No offense taken, trust me. I feel bad that people keep having to moderate me. So back to the original topic, IS anyone openly working on CM 9 or 10?
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Tiezane said:
No offense taken, trust me. I feel bad that people keep having to moderate me. So back to the original topic, IS anyone openly working on CM 9 or 10?
Sent from my ADR6400L using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are people working aosp builds, don't know if they're cm based or not. I'm sure there will be a cm port eventually.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
I had read on other forum threads that CM9 was going to be officially supported for the TBolt. Seems like it was in the Thundershed 1.6 thread but I'm not positive about that.
Sent from my Liquid ICS TBolt
animez said:
I had read on other forum threads that CM9 was going to be officially supported for the TBolt. Seems like it was in the Thundershed 1.6 thread but I'm not positive about that.
Sent from my Liquid ICS TBolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We r on the list for official cm9
Sent from my TeamBamfed ICS leaked ROM on my HTC Thunderbolt
Add me on google talk: jonahgoodman515
It concerns me that they don't have us listed on their Devices page anymore, nor is there a forum for the Bolt. You can't even find it or Mecha mentioned on the downloads page.
Tiezane said:
It concerns me that they don't have us listed on their Devices page anymore, nor is there a forum for the Bolt. You can't even find it or Mecha mentioned on the downloads page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think (could be wrong) a device needs a stable build to get a subforum on their site. For example, the Nexus 7 doesn't have a forum there either, but you can bet your ass it's getting official CM10 (as I'm running the nightlies on my N7 now). The TB is going to be tricky because it has never had any official CM build - someone from the team is going to have to sign up to be the maintainer, and start doing what is required to get nightlies going.
I still have my suspicions about getting official CM - I think more likely is you'll have a situation similar to gingerbread where slayher, workshed, and the others at least get an "unofficial" CM working, which is really as good as the "real thing" anyway. Either way someone is taking CM source and doing what's needed to make it run on the Bolt.
plambda said:
I think (could be wrong) a device needs a stable build to get a subforum on their site. For example, the Nexus 7 doesn't have a forum there either, but you can bet your ass it's getting official CM10 (as I'm running the nightlies on my N7 now). The TB is going to be tricky because it has never had any official CM build - someone from the team is going to have to sign up to be the maintainer, and start doing what is required to get nightlies going.
I still have my suspicions about getting official CM - I think more likely is you'll have a situation similar to gingerbread where slayher, workshed, and the others at least get an "unofficial" CM working, which is really as good as the "real thing" anyway. Either way someone is taking CM source and doing what's needed to make it run on the Bolt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've always wondered what nightlies means
Sent from my TeamBamfed ICS leaked ROM on my HTC Thunderbolt
Add me on google talk: jonahgoodman515
jonah1234 said:
I've always wondered what nightlies means
Sent from my TeamBamfed ICS leaked ROM on my HTC Thunderbolt
Add me on google talk: jonahgoodman515
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A new build each night!
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/lg-su660-kernel-source-released-may-help-g2x/
according to XDA Su660( O2x) has kernal source released for JB!!!! and the kernal might also work with P999(g2x) which is good news for us
joyj112 said:
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/lg-su660-kernel-source-released-may-help-g2x/
according to XDA Su660( O2x) has kernal source released for JB!!!! and the kernal might also work with P999(g2x) which is good news for us
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No sh!t!? Are you sure about that? Now a hand will show up from your phone and will slap you in:5...4....3....2....1 SLAP!:cyclops:
OMG are you serious...
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda app-developers app
*Facepalm*
Wow to wake up everyday and see a new post about such old **** makes my day... Really it does... haha
Just because of how much life will be brought back to this wonderful device...
Sent from my LG-G2x using XDA Developers app.
Please close this thread.
Sent via G2X-SINGH-UI
Or just delete it.
Wow, way to go LG! They are trying to win us back over by bringing the updates they just gave us ICS and now JB? Woohoo!
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda app-developers app
I doubt that's why lg did it. Bottom line they don't care about this device anymore. We do they don't.
Sent from my G2X using EaglesBlood build 5
There is only ics sources so dont get too happy, i highly doubt we will get jb from cm team as well since its more work then just porting over. ICS kernel by lg only covers p990 and su660. If RC makes one for us, thats great else we are basically on our own. Please stop spamming for this crap already. T-Mobile & nvidia along with lg has screwed us.
Sent via G2X-SINGH-UI
Lmfaoooooooooooo
nycelitemaster said:
There is only ics sources so dont get too happy, i highly doubt we will get jb from cm team as well since its more work then just porting over. ICS kernel by lg only covers p990 and su660. If RC makes one for us, thats great else we are basically on our own. Please stop spamming for this crap already. T-Mobile & nvidia along with lg has screwed us.
Sent via G2X-SINGH-UI
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Umm..... The ICS sources are compatible with JB. And RC has already started development for it.... He's most likely fixing the majority of bugs for the p990 and then porting it to the p999 so yeah.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
This whole sub is getting ridiculous, the mods should limit conversation to talk of cases and extended batteries till RC is done with his work and we can all go back to being our curmudgeonly selves with CM10.
Porting still not done?
sent from my phone using tapahoe 2
supersilko said:
Porting still not done?
sent from my phone using tapahoe 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Srsly...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
murdah204 said:
Srsly...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can either of you two do better? cause I know I can't.
If we can we would ask for help
sent from my phone using tapahoe 2
This thread and op are spamming.
Geesh..
G2x-temasek CM7 build135.4 w/faux 054 kernel
Also it's not just spamming, it's an actual liability for us. Let me repeat this: bugging the devs (namely RC) may threaten our chances of ever getting a viable port of CM10 and 10.1. RC has already shut down the O2x thread because of (*) whining about timelines, problems already answered and general crap that doesn't help development. We should keep our forum strong and lively so the devs know we are still here and hungry, but that we aren't a bunch of freeloaders (which we are actually) that feel entitled to their time and effort.