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Is Bluetooth going to be the technology that never was ?

There are loads of major manufacturers all planning to launch Wireless USB devices later this year.
Intel have thrown themselves heavily behind this new standard, or rather this extension of the existing USB standard. USB is already the most popular and pervasive interface in the world.
Who thinks this will kill Bluetooth ?
Personally I can't see bluetooth lasting for long once there is an alternative that actually works properly. It's hard to think of another technology that has promised so much and delivered so little and been so full of bugs, glitches, incompatibilities etc.
I think the Wireless USB will appear, having learnt from all of Bluetooth's ghastly mistakes, and take the industry by storm. Bye bye bluetooth.

ozymandias said:
There are loads of major manufacturers all planning to launch Wireless USB devices later this year.
Intel have thrown themselves heavily behind this new standard, or rather this extension of the existing USB standard. USB is already the most popular and pervasive interface in the world.
Who thinks this will kill Bluetooth ?
Personally I can't see bluetooth lasting for long once there is an alternative that actually works properly. It's hard to think of another technology that has promised so much and delivered so little and been so full of bugs, glitches, incompatibilities etc.
I think the Wireless USB will appear, having learnt from all of Bluetooth's ghastly mistakes, and take the industry by storm. Bye bye bluetooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My last three phones were bluetooth, my last two handhelds, my curent phone/handheld, my gps, my PC, all my current gear works as expected.
What was your point again?

Read this and many other forums on bluetooth related topics.
All you read is problems with pairing, problems with sound quality, problems with compatibility, dopped connections, things either not working they way they should or not working at all.
Bluetooth, in general, is flaky.

ozymandias said:
Bluetooth, in general, is flaky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wireless USB isn't even here yet, thus hasn't been tested properly yet, and you're sounding the death knells of BT.... you're certainly an optimist!

I also have no problems with bluetooth; certainly no more than I do with USB devices any way.

For one thing, in the very begining, people were saying that BlueTooth doesn't stand a chance because of it's short 10 meter radius. Well have you seen an 802.11b Wi-Fi headset? If there is I bet it costs a lot.
Everyone was skeptical but look at how technology is with regards to the phones, having BlueTooth is important when selecting a phone. Transfering small pictures, having printouts or even on your BT headsets. Wifi coss too much and I think Bluetooth will evolve into something that IR could not.
In my opinion it will stay for the next 5 years and then a better version will be out.

Don't get me wrong.
I'm not against BlueTooth.
I think bluetooth is quite well conceived as a technology, but disasterously implemented by a lot of manufacturers.
I understand and agree with the points made about the usefulness of short-range wireless and personal area networks etc etc. I think there's a great future in it.
My point is, that Wireless USB is quite clearly going to be stepping on BlueTooth's toes in a way that Wifi does not. We've seen it happen in the past with other standards like Betamax and VHS, even ethernet and token ring (although token ring still exists in various forms).
I'm not sure the various industries will stand for two such similar technologies and the way the players are lining up at the moment I think WUSB will have the edge.

Will the upcoming p5000 (htc nike/touch II) have wifi?

some rumors say yes, others say no.... What do you think about it? Do you have fresh news? It will be a shame if htc removes wifi from the touch succesor

if not htc would qualify as being an odd duck because
Qualcomm MSM7200 (SoC) the cpu of nike have onchip
wifi support
http://www.umtschips.com/products/msm7200_chipset_solution.jsp
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=736&view=1
so they get wifi for free

I hope you are right Thank you (and "Hi all" I'm a newbie this is my 2nd post )

Even built-in GPS!

if it doesn't have wi-fi it'll be a big FLOP

In the past HTC have disabled some of these "free" features, and enable them in a later revision just so that they make it look like they are actually progressing!

TryOG said:
Even built-in GPS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that no gps will be in p5500, so say all reports.
But, if they disable (or phisically remove?) built-in gps form MSM7200 why can't remove even wifi to avoid competition with others upcoming devices (polaris, or the new tytnII)? Ok, without wlan will be a flop but technically? Can they remove or they can just disable embedded components on MSM7200?

"or phisically remove"
is not something you can do with something on the cpu chip
of cause they could not connect the legs to an antenna
but it would seem a bit silly imho

understood, so as i mean (and hope)

Rudegar said:
"or phisically remove"
is not something you can do with something on the cpu chip
of cause they could not connect the legs to an antenna
but it would seem a bit silly imho
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is exactly what they did on the Hermes

http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_htctouch_dual.htm
without wifi. This morning was specified, now has been removed such a shame

According to Modaco the Touch Dual had WiFi on the devices at the launch and they are confident it will be there on the devices.
http://www.modaco.com/index.php?showtopic=259923

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/02/poll-does-the-htc-touch-dual-need-wifi/
same news on engadget. I hope so, without wifi I risk to have to buy "iphone" (brrrrrrr) for my commercials instead of this shiny touch

again
"Some of the countries will receive shipments of a particular version of the device that supports Wi-Fi"
http://www.smape.com/en/reviews/htc/HTC_Touch_Dual-rev.html

and pdadb.net sign it as "nike 100".. What does it mean? Also, no trace of 20keys model in any htc site

Android In-Vehicle Infotainment

So I've had a project for the last few months getting Android running as an infotainment system. Here is a demo i thought i'd share with you guys..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNcDq9S8n3I
Basic features:
Android 2.1 (looking to update to GB)
7inch touch-screen (800x480)
3G modem
GPS
Reverse camera (backup camera to see what's behind you)
USB port
would love to hear some criticism or anything regarding the device.. its not perfect, its got a few bugs and glitches.. but is sort of ready for everyday use but is missing a few components to make it 'official' android device (wifi, bluetooth etc).. but i'm just wondering if anyone is interested in something like this? Is this worth developing further on?
This thing runs on Cortex a8 omap3530 board and is based off 0xdroid build.
apologies if im in the wrong forum

Wow dude, thats really cool! I'd love one of these for my car. If you could get Honeycomb on that bad boy it'd be sweet! Just wondering, how do you plan on setting up a rear view camera? Just connect a camera at the back of the car to the tablet itself, then run the Camera app? Seems like the simplest way to me..

Haha cheers love to see the honeycomb source once its out then we'll talk although I'd imagine i'd need better hardware...
currently camera is interfaced by usb (has a usb hub) so i got a cable running under the carpet through the boot then camera is mounted on the bumper. yup camera is called by any camera calling intent.. so any app can use it.
I want to get some proximity sensors (like parking sensors) and write a proper reverse cam app to complement it. But we'll see...

Very cool!
I've been wanting to do this for a while, but I was going to use MeeGo or maybe Moblin since I don't have the programming skills (or Android knowledge for that matter) to build my own computer around Android. I dig what you got so far though.
My suggestion for the reverse camera is one of two things, because it would bug me to have to find and open the camera app every time I needed to back up.
Keep your touchscreen (what model are you using BTW?) and use a bluetooth or wi-fi relay (I know they make 'em, but they are $$$) to provide an input from +12V signal from your reverse light wire to automatically open the camera app, then close the app. Of course, you'd have to program for that.
Or
Have you considered this touch screen? Lilliput 7" touch screen with auto-reverse input. (Needs a RCA camera though)
http://store.mp3car.com/Lilliput_629GL_70NP_C_T_7_VGA_Touchscreen_w_Aut_p/MON-016-0002.htm
This is the one I plan on using since it switches automatically to the camera input whenever you are in reverse. Once you go back to any other gear, the OS input shows up again.
Just a thought to make life a little more convenient (although you already bought your parts so you may be stuck.)

chjade84 said:
Very cool!
I've been wanting to do this for a while, but I was going to use MeeGo or maybe Moblin since I don't have the programming skills (or Android knowledge for that matter) to build my own computer around Android. I dig what you got so far though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! It needs a lot of time and dedication but it's a real good learning curve. I had to learn a lot of things on the way.. especially c/c++ I wasn't great at but had decent skills with higher level programming.
If you are planning to work with MeeGo its a little fussy with the hardware requirements.. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think you need an Intel Atom processor. These are a little pricey if you're after an evaluation/hackable kit! But I'd imagine it'll be easier to program as it's a lot more closey coupled with linux.
chjade84 said:
My suggestion for the reverse camera is one of two things, because it would bug me to have to find and open the camera app every time I needed to back up.
Keep your touchscreen (what model are you using BTW?) and use a bluetooth or wi-fi relay (I know they make 'em, but they are $$$) to provide an input from +12V signal from your reverse light wire to automatically open the camera app, then close the app. Of course, you'd have to program for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just had a look at those relays, sounds like its something I really need! Is this how the standard backup cameras work? That was something I was confused about.. I wasn't sure how to detect if i'm on reverse.. especially with the parts I already had. I'd imagine once you implement it you just need a service running in the background to listen for the relay.
The touchscreen is a TFT resistive 4wire touch-screen. It's not something I want to keep as I really want capacitive multi-touch.. But this fits perfectly with the board and was easier to deal with
chjade84 said:
Or
Have you considered this touch screen? Lilliput 7" touch screen with auto-reverse input. (Needs a RCA camera though)
http://store.mp3car.com/Lilliput_629GL_70NP_C_T_7_VGA_Touchscreen_w_Aut_p/MON-016-0002.htm
This is the one I plan on using since it switches automatically to the camera input whenever you are in reverse. Once you go back to any other gear, the OS input shows up again.
Just a thought to make life a little more convenient (although you already bought your parts so you may be stuck.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice find! I wish I saw that earlier .. Quite pricey but would make life so much easierrrrr!
Cheers for the feedback! Best of luck for your project!

tknz said:
I just had a look at those relays, sounds like its something I really need! Is this how the standard backup cameras work? That was something I was confused about.. I wasn't sure how to detect if i'm on reverse.. especially with the parts I already had. I'd imagine once you implement it you just need a service running in the background to listen for the relay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think most factory backup cameras use two inputs and switch between them. I don't have a lot of experience with them though.

chjade84 said:
I think most factory backup cameras use two inputs and switch between them. I don't have a lot of experience with them though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what you mean exactly. I'll try the relays because it at-least gives me a standard interface to work with (bluetooth or wifi) so there isn't any work you have to deal with on the hardware abstraction.. Although it would probably be better designed if I had some sort of voltage input coming when the vehicle on reverse (the reverse light as mentioned). But I don't really have the electrical expertise to make it happen lol.

tknz said:
Not sure what you mean exactly. I'll try the relays because it at-least gives me a standard interface to work with (bluetooth or wifi) so there isn't any work you have to deal with on the hardware abstraction.. Although it would probably be better designed if I had some sort of voltage input coming when the vehicle on reverse (the reverse light as mentioned). But I don't really have the electrical expertise to make it happen lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well essentially what I was thinking was you'd have the bluetooth relay hooked up to your reverse light wire. This should allow your computer to monitor whether or not your car was in reverse. Relays are pretty simple - one input switches on/off another, usually one of a much higher or lower voltage. So in essence, it's a switch activated by voltage. (There used to be an electromagnet inside that physically moves a piece of metal to make a connection when a voltage is applied - now it's all transistors and whatnot.)
So, if you are in reverse and your reverse lights are getting power, the bluetooth relay should sense that and signal the computer (through a serial command it seems) which in turn could tell a background service to open the camera app. Once the voltage from the reverse light wire is lost, the relay should again tell the computer that you aren't in reverse anymore and the background service would close the camera app and re-open whatever app you were in.
*I should note this is all "in theory"... I don't know exactly how those wireless relays work/communicate and I don't know Android programming at all.

Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking what about using the GPIOs on the board and attach that to the reverse light? would that be possible? and using some resistors on the way to limit the voltages so i don't fry the board.. but we just need to detect some voltage input...
Not sure, will look into it. Right now, taking a pause on the development.. Got a lot of work to take care of but I can't wait to get back into it. I really want to port this to gingerbread.

tknz said:
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking what about using the GPIOs on the board and attach that to the reverse light? would that be possible? and using some resistors on the way to limit the voltages so i don't fry the board.. but we just need to detect some voltage input...
Not sure, will look into it. Right now, taking a pause on the development.. Got a lot of work to take care of but I can't wait to get back into it. I really want to port this to gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could possibly do that, a real cheap voltage regulator would probably be better though. You could also use a cheap relay if the correct voltage is already somewhere on the car. Again, I'm not too sure how those bluetooth relays work, but it sounds like you are on the right track.

Great Job!
I was thinking of doing something similar myself.
I am looking at going with one of the tablets as it is just seems easier? I only really need internet, google maps(GPS) and wifi tethering. I would imagine you are running stereo sound from a 3.5mm? I would still have a seperate head unit to control volume and handle all the regular functions as well as inputs from a 3.5 to RCA cable.
How are you running sound off that setup? Are you running a head unit still?

The sound is running off a small amplifier. then RCA to 3.5mm.
Haven't had the chance to play around with the wifi tether as right now i don't have a wifi card.. It would make sense to have wifi tethering or just wifi reciever and use a phone to tether 3g to the system. Avoids having separate data plans.

Can we get a copy of your "AIVI Car Home" for our own DIY projects?

I don't mind releasing the source for it. Its just right now its a bit messy and quite a few things are hardcoded.

tknz said:
So I've had a project for the last few months getting Android running as an infotainment system. Here is a demo i thought i'd share with you guys..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice project. I gutted a Clarion Mind last year to do pretty much the same thing but am looking to upgrade. You said the software needs work but it's a real good start. Would you mind sharing your hardware list with us?

Nice work!

Something I was also interested in seeing is having vehicle manufacturer recommended service intervals and such available as reminders from your in car system or phone or both.

Stu_Gotti said:
Something I was also interested in seeing is having vehicle manufacturer recommended service intervals and such available as reminders from your in car system or phone or both.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could use 'aCar' which, if you are unfamiliar, you enter the make, model, mileage and all the pertinent service requirements. Battery every 3 years or 50,000 miles, coolant every year or 15,000 miles, oil every 6 months or 3,000 miles, etc. Then, every time you get gas you enter the current mileage as well as gallons/liters of fuel and the price. From that information you not only get your MPG but it will also trigger reminders to do the necessary maintenance at the correct intervals when they come up. You can do this for multiple cars as well. It's a very good program.
On a related note to this thread, I started my own 'carputer' project using an Archos 70 Internet Tablet and an unused articulating wall mount for TVs. It's still a work in progress as well since I don't have all the parts yet but will do everything I wanted (eventually... lol) except the rear facing camera. The video is obviously just of the media player.
I shot this late last night to show a friend. He wanted to know why someone would want a tablet/computer in their car, lol. Sorry about it being so dark.

Dude
I am keen as mustard on one of these beauties, I was considering running xp MCE but the android option would be much nicer..
Love ya work.

tknz said:
I don't mind releasing the source for it. Its just right now its a bit messy and quite a few things are hardcoded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please do. Would love to play with it. No matter how clean the code is it's just gonna get better...
thanks for showing it..

[App Request] FM Radio transmit / full band receive

Hi all.... this is not your usual "I want to listen to FM on my otherwise unsupported ROM" request. What I'm requesting I think would be far more interesting, and if applied properly, could benefit many makes and models of phone. For that reason, maybe this belongs in an even more general forum, but I'm starting here because this is the phone I have and I don't know just how many other models use this same hardware.
I see that the HTC Doubleshot / T-Mobile MyTouch 4G Slide, along with several other phones, has a BCM4329-B1 radio chipset. This chip is reported in many places to be capable of not only FM Radio receive but also transmit. Unfortunately, that's as far as anyone goes with listing what it's capable of doing. Partly because of this (and partly because of search overload or maybe me not knowing what terms to use in my search), I can't find specs enough on the chip to know the full range of frequencies it receives. I have seen enough to imply that the same chip handles bluetooth, wifi, as well as FM broadcast band. Something as widespread as that might just be capable of extending receive capabilities outside of the usual broadcast band (for instance, maybe it can be used as a "police scanner" of sorts).
If nothing else, I think it would be fantastic to have an APK that can take MP3s or perhaps any kind of streaming media and retransmit it, low-power of course, to a nearby FM radio set to receive on the same frequency (much easier to get e.g. Pandora into every room in my house this way). I just figure if I'm going to ask for this I may as well ask for the world, right? Of course I don't expect a multiband ham radio to pop out of my phone, but if I could use it to maybe pick up a wireless microphone at 181 MHz, or act as a frequency meter (similar to WiFi Analyzer apk) for low-power transmitter troubleshooting, that would be phenomenal. Icing on the cake would be the ability to record what it receives, assuming it receives outside of band (record-to-file equals record-to-stream, here, meaning also record-and-serve-on-a-wifi-or-4G-link).
Any takers?
I wish I could offer time and skill but I just don't know enough about development nor does my life lend much in the way of free time for hobbies... I'm hopeful someone else has already thought of this.
Regards and TIA

cj chitwood said:
I'm hopeful someone else has already thought of this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a unique position on this, because it's a problem I run into consistently.
When i'm doing this and can't hear anything around me, and the camera gets no music when it records.
The only good way to deal with this without getting a noise disturbance violation at night is to use a couple of androids to sync all the music up - person(s) on camera has a device with headphones, sync up with the one playing music next to the camera.
There is no smooth way to handle that in random locations all over the place, way out of wifi range and possibly with no cell service as well.
There is no easy answer but there are ways of making it work. I'd write up a guide on how we do it now, but being down to only one device I can't run through it in front of me now, i'll have to wait until I see my friend again so we have two or 3 machines to use at once or I get my hands on another one (hopefully soon - this is my biggest aggravation with being temporarily down a device, no bluetooth or interacting with another device testing)
Since someone else in interested in the exact same issue here i'll take the time at some point to sit down and recap what worked or didn't work and link to the things that did. Have to be another day though, i'm pretty tired now and gonna catch some sleep soon.
Anyone else put effort into something like this?

Blue6IX said:
I have a unique position on this, because it's a problem I run into consistently.
When i'm doing this and can't hear anything around me, and the camera gets no music when it records.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah HAH! I WONDERED what you had for a "day" job!
Joking aside though, I'm surprised out where there's no cell signal they worry about noise violations... Here, there's a time limit (15 minutes at a time with at least I think a 5 minute break IIRC) but you can make noise pretty much any time at night. Just don't wake the neighbors up and nobody complains
Thanks for posting your thoughts. I'm willing to test insomuch as it won't risk the device. I just don't know enough to program my own app for this...
...if it's even possible: a guy at work reminded me today that just as CPU manufacturers use the same chip designation to indicate a CPU with and without features like L2 cache, phone mfgrs like Samsung (he has a not-so-new Galaxy phone) have been known to use this same chip with the FM radio capabilities completely absent to the point that someone in the know actually removed the chip from his device, hooked it up on a bench, and was completely unable to get it to do anything FM radio related. It may be that while some iterations of the chip overall are capable of being made with transmit, that it's quite likely transmit itself was left out of the hardware itself.
I'd still like to see if it's possible. Maybe if the chip identifies itself in the OS, we can see how it does, and maybe it will hint at whether transmit was included or not.

Found this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1042094
Which implies this was originally touched upon before the Evo... However, it also provides enough info as to say the only FM receive/transmit this chip will do OOB is FM broadcast band (76-108 MHz). Still, it can transmit...

Bump!!!!
That would be ill if you could transmit on FM band ...... anyone make any progress?
Although why not just stream via bluetooth? what would the advantage to transmitting on fm band be other than epic nerd street cred

Some_dude36 said:
Bump!!!!
That would be ill if you could transmit on FM band ...... anyone make any progress?
Although why not just stream via bluetooth? what would the advantage to transmitting on fm band be other than epic nerd street cred
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all devices support a2dp
Sent from my RubiX ICS Infused using Tapatalk

Fm xmit might go farther, especially if the right antenna can be made.
Fm can be simultaneously received by multiple devices. Think here tv-out to a small portable projector showing the latest theatrical releases in full composite glory and stereo sound out of the viewers' battery operated headphone radios all while offering 4g data hotspot... :~/
Honestly, the real reason for me is the fm radios in the garage are louder than the portable computer speakers I've been playing Pandora through and I hate the dinky transmitter that came with my wife's ipod because it only does 4 stations high in the band. This would make that much easier (and I'm sure many others would find a use for this).
--
Sent from my Android ”phone”:
HTC DoubleShot /T-Mobile MyTouch 4G Slide running Bulletproof

FM Transmit:
I get asked this question regularly, and my response is generally: "Forget about it, almost no Android phones connect the FM Transmit pins anywhere useful".
But a few months ago a helpful person sent me an HTC FM transmit app. Apparently it was meant for the T-Mobile/HTC Mytouch 4G, and apparently that device is supposed to have the transmit pins connected.
I have no idea (yet) if that is true or if this also applies to the "Slide" variant.
I'm sure this will only work on ROMs that use the Broadcom proprietary Bluetooth stack and that have sufficient parts of Sense present. IE, a stock or stock derived ROM. It probably requires Froyo or GingerBread.
If anyone has or can load such a ROM and wants to try, and will commit to reporting their results, email me at mikereidis AT gmail.com and I'll send the APK.
Thanks...

mikereidis said:
FM Transmit:
...
But a few months ago a helpful person sent me an HTC FM transmit app. Apparently it was meant for the T-Mobile/HTC Mytouch 4G, and apparently that device is supposed to have the transmit pins connected.
I have no idea (yet) if that is true or if this also applies to the "Slide" variant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had one tester who reported success, but on the non "Slide" version. Details and a link to the app are here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31328070&postcount=4391

mikereidis said:
I had one tester who reported success, but on the non "Slide" version. Details and a link to the app are here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31328070&postcount=4391
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I installed it on a stock sense rom on the MT4GS and the app loads, but when I press transmit it just stays on the "FM Transmitter turning on" so I'm guessing that means that it won't work...

marc12868 said:
I installed it on a stock sense rom on the MT4GS and the app loads, but when I press transmit it just stays on the "FM Transmitter turning on" so I'm guessing that means that it won't work...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for trying.
That's exactly what happens on my Desire HD and Desire Z running stock derived Gingerbread.
The success report for the non-slide phone was on Android 2.2.1. I don't know if 2.3.x is possible, but I'll find out when I get my myTouch 4G HD hopefully by the end of the week.
I expect to add a transmit test function to my FM app Spirit at some point, and it will then likely work on any ROM, though audio routing could be a challenge.

marc12868 said:
I installed it on a stock sense rom on the MT4GS and the app loads, but when I press transmit it just stays on the "FM Transmitter turning on" so I'm guessing that means that it won't work...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get the same exact scenario myself. I even went to the extent of making sure I had some audio playing to make sure that it wasn't just the fact there was no audio and it might have been waiting for it. still no joy. It appears that the slide variant of the MyTouch 4G does indeed not have the Fm transmit pins connected. then again, I have not looked at my logs yet, so I do not know exactly what it has been doing.
--
Sent from my Bulletproof Swiss Army Doubleshot using the XDA app and stock voice to text.

Hope this lolcat helps
https://www.box.com/shared/6parlnbt3j3y6o5fgopq
--
Sent from my Bulletproof Swiss Army Doubleshot using the XDA app.

The logcat doesn't show any errors with executing the FM Transmitter app. What I can see is the FM Reciever gets activated on the logcat. I should say that FMTx & FMRx cannot be run in the same time.
1. So the error could be the FMTx got killed by the FMRx intentionally.
2. BCM4329 driver doesn't have the code to interact with the FMTx chipset.
If the mt4gs does indeed have FMTx on it's chipset then I'm sure it's working/connected on the board else we wouldn't have any FM Radio on our device.
Bluetooth, FMTx & FMRx is located in the same part of the chipset. One dies then all of them dies.
Now anybody here could link me to the stock kernel of the device which made this work? I could look at the bcm driver on that kernel and maybe I could hook it up on the mt4gs kernel to make it work.
---------- Post added at 11:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------
Ok guys confirmed! Hardware should be capable of transmitting fm frequencies.
Looking at the data sheet FM Tx & Rx are bidirectional which means as long as FM Rx is working so will be Tx.
{
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Now the problems left would be the driver & the Hardware Abstraction Layer(HAL). Since we already have an FM Tx app.

LOLcat ?
Yes, the 4329 has TX inside, no problem, but I'm pretty sure it can only transmit or receive at one time, never simultaneously.
Every time I've looked at the internals of the Broadcom proprietary Bluetooth stack I've seen the transmit function, and HTCs implementation tends to include that, and their own mods.
The biggest issue should be whether or not the Transmit pins are connected to the headset. Heck, most of the phones with this chip don't even connect the receive antenna pins. (IE no FM radio whatsoever, grrr, what a waste.)
That said, I'm not quite sure why the TX app hangs on most phones, other than the plain myTouch 4G. There might be some difference and I hope to get to the bottom of it.
And eventually, I should be able to make Transmit work on any BCM4329 device with the transmit antenna pins wired, but there will likely be very few such devices.
And before anyone asks, it will likely be completely infeasible to make the hardware mod needed, same as for FM receive antenna pins.
I see 28 downloads of the FMTx app now.

mikereidis said:
LOLcat ?
Yes, the 4329 has TX inside, no problem, but I'm pretty sure it can only transmit or receive at one time, never simultaneously.
Every time I've looked at the internals of the Broadcom proprietary Bluetooth stack I've seen the transmit function, and HTCs implementation tends to include that, and their own mods.
The biggest issue should be whether or not the Transmit pins are connected to the headset. Heck, most of the phones with this chip don't even connect the receive antenna pins. (IE no FM radio whatsoever, grrr, what a waste.)
That said, I'm not quite sure why the TX app hangs on most phones, other than the plain myTouch 4G. There might be some difference and I hope to get to the bottom of it.
And eventually, I should be able to make Transmit work on any BCM4329 device with the transmit antenna pins wired, but there will likely be very few such devices.
And before anyone asks, it will likely be completely infeasible to make the hardware mod needed, same as for FM receive antenna pins.
I see 28 downloads of the FMTx app now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi! As I said if FMRx works then should be FMTx. So it's clear now that hardware wise FMTx should be fully working. Now software wise that I still don't know.
Regarding antenna I'm not quite sure if it's really necessary? You see I have a device here Nokia N900 which has a built in FMRx & FMTx feature which was really implemented by nokia. And I already dissassembled it alot of time to the point I know each and every part of it And I can activate it's FMTx without the need of a headset. I just need to play the music player select the Transmit FM option and select the frequency I want then I can channel the music to any radio reciever 1 to 2 meters away from me without the need of an antenna.
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Radio_Transmitter

Riyal said:
Hi! As I said if FMRx works then should be FMTx. So it's clear now that hardware wise FMTx should be fully working. Now software wise that I still don't know.
Regarding antenna I'm not quite sure if it's really necessary? You see I have a device here Nokia N900 which has a built in FMRx & FMTx feature which was really implemented by nokia. And I already dissassembled it alot of time to the point I know each and every part of it And I can activate it's FMTx without the need of a headset. I just need to play the music player select the Transmit FM option and select the frequency I want then I can channel the music to any radio reciever 1 to 2 meters away from me without the need of an antenna.
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Radio_Transmitter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the CHIP has all the hardware needed. But the most important "hardware part" is the connection of something to the FM Tx antenna pin. Even if the pins aren't grounded (Which tends to kill all chance) and left floating, the chips are inside "RF shields" will just about kills any chance of reception/transmission.
Every radio receiver or transmitter MUST have an antenna. On some devices it may be internal and you don't see it, but it's definitely there. On old AM radios internal antennas were a LONG piece of wire wrapped around a bar (ferrite?).
In some cases, an antenna is just circuit board traces. For high frequencies, such as cell or GPS or Bt/WiFi only very small antennas are needed. For lower frequencies, like FM around 100 MHz, the best antennas are roughly the length of headset cables.
This could possibly be coiled and wrapped around something and hidden inside the phone. But it's there, no way around needing an antenna.
I have some phones that do remarkably well with no wired headset for an antenna. But an "antenna" of sorts is still there, even if it's only several millimetres to centimetres of circuit board traces meant to connect the antenna pins on the chip to the headset.

Yeah, LOLcat. when you go into command prompt, "adb lolcat" is the same as "adb logcat". Apparently, the team at Google said "logcat" so often and so fast it sounded like "lolcat" to them.
Mikereidis is correct, you do need an antenna, even if it's hidden. Otherwise you have extremely high standing wave ratio (SWR) that will eventually fry your transmit amplifier. This is basic radio theory at play, that one learns when becoming FCC licensed radio operators like General Radiotelephone Operator or Amateur Radio Operator (I'm the latter of these, KE4EDD, though I haven't picked up a transceiver in about a decade).
Like he said, it's not as critical at higher frequencies because wavelength (and therefore necessary antenna length) is shorter and can be hidden inside the device (take the cover off your MT4GS and you'll see three separate antennae all up around the camera lens -- they're just thin sheets of metal on this phone).
Still, the pinout of the chip itself is important. This I know nothing of as I haven't seen it. either way, if the spec sheet says Rx and Tx work on the same connections (e.g., they both require the same pins to be "high" in order to physically activate either mode) then all we need is to get the HAL and driver set up. I know nothing of this as well. Wish I could help. All I can do is offer my phone's lolcat services.
On that note, I received a <sisa:###:##:#::#> text message this morning, appears that it's a T-mo thing, that T-mo is trying to update my phone (which is running a custom ROM), and now my digitizer doesn't work, so I may need to hold off on even the lolcat until I get it fixed.

cj chitwood said:
"adb lolcat" is the same as "adb logcat". Apparently, the team at Google said "logcat" so often and so fast it sounded like "lolcat" to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learn something new every day. But I think it was more a joke about the very popular meme than mis-hearing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolcat
cj chitwood said:
you do need an antenna, even if it's hidden. Otherwise you have extremely high standing wave ratio (SWR) that will eventually fry your transmit amplifier. This is basic radio theory at play, that one learns when becoming FCC licensed radio operators like General Radiotelephone Operator or Amateur Radio Operator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know the theory, but I've never believed that low power, under 100 mw transmitters get damaged too often. But I imagine a final output transistor on a chip can't take as much abuse as an external one.
cj chitwood said:
Still, the pinout of the chip itself is important. This I know nothing of as I haven't seen it. either way, if the spec sheet says Rx and Tx work on the same connections (e.g., they both require the same pins to be "high" in order to physically activate either mode) then all we need is to get the HAL and driver set up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Documents about these chips are "very secret". I can't even find much on Chinese sites that specialise in proprietary documents. The official vague block diagrams can't be trusted either.
But if the transmit and receive pins were the same pins, I'm pretty sure we would have achieved FM transmit long ago on the most popular Broadcom chips, on devices that support receive. That said, I think the much rarer Qualcomm Tavarua chips use the same pins, and there are no transmit reports on them.
I've looked at schematics of some phones, and I've seen FM antenna pins specifically labelled as "Rx", so that's another clue in favor of the idea that Rx and Tx pins are different. This might also be easier to achieve on the chip.
I wonder too if it's easier to achieve FCC etc certification if the hardware design specifically makes FM transmit impossible.

I'm certain it is easier to achieve, as long as they can certify to the FCC that no more than so many milliwatts will be pushed out. Then again, with as many transmitters as there are that are available to the public, it can't be that hard to do.
We keep talking about Tx and Rx pins. In my limited experience with chips, I'm wondering if these are antenna pins, or activation pins. I also wouldn't be surprised if it was that some chips have a mode select pin (high is one mode, low is another) that could be labeled both as Tx and Rx, and each mode requires a separate other pin to have a certain voltage on it to provide power for that section of the chip. Alternatively, to have two mode select pins, again whichever one is hot selects the mode, and the third pin provides power for both modes, and thus is labeled Tx Rx even if the mode select pin isn't attached.
Either way, if pinouts are so secretive about this, it's pointless to discuss pins because they literally could be anything. I think however that you having seen the innards and/or schematics of these devices means that you would know more than I as I have yet to even crack mine open
Oh and the lolcat thing... no, you really can type "adb lolcat" in command prompt and it runs a logcat. The explanation for this was literally that they said "logcat" so fast it sounded like "lolcat". I am fully aware of the meme, http://icanhascheezburger.com and have forwarded quite a few on to the wife even.

Question Which UIS7862 unit should I buy?

Im looking to get a new head unit for my car (Corsa D 1.2 2009), and was planning on getting the Teyes CC3. I then found out through this forum and elsewhere that its essentially just being resold? I then found other units like the Mekede M6 Pro, etc. Im not sure which one to get, does anyone have any suggestions? Or information that can help me decide between all of the UIS7862 out there?
Im leaning towards the Teyes even if it is slightly more expensive, as ive heard good things about their support and firmware updates.
But ive seen units for £180 (6+128gb) with better spec than the teyes at £250 (3+32gb)!
I mainly want good audio (so a good DSP and AMP chip), and i want polished looking software and not having to deal with the android stock menus as much.
For someone in the UK, what are peoples suggestions?
Thanks
Gershy13

Mekede M6 Pro (Youtube, another UK guy like you). Personally I would never buy a T'eyes. Too much closed source and paid software.

surfer63 said:
Mekede M6 Pro (Youtube, another UK guy like you). Personally I would never buy a T'eyes. Too much closed source and paid software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks,
Would you be able to tell me what the main differences between going with teyes and their closed apps (some examples of why theyre worse) compared to something that isnt locked down? Like mekede or anything else.
Another one i found is OSSURET? I was thinking of the S8
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004870713836.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.27a42034V35IGh&algo_pvid=bd602265-4596-42b3-a13b-f1fa8a31ac3c&algo_exp_id=bd602265-4596-42b3-a13b-f1fa8a31ac3c-2&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000030828861416%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21GBP%21168.28%2184.14%21%21%21%21%21%400b0a187b16722620012128392e6e8f%2112000030828861416%21sea&curPageLogUid=f8YkC5oOv6ja
It seems to have a slightly higher clocked processor too. And for the same price as the mekede i can get maxed storage and ram. Thoughts?

Are you planning to listen to FM radio? If you are I advise you to stay away from any FYT based head unit. If not go ahead.

Gaugamela said:
Are you planning to listen to FM radio? If you are I advise you to stay away from any FYT based head unit. If not go ahead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Curious as to why? But no never planning on using the radio. (Spotify only)

AF function (changing frequency of radio station when signal gets too weak to a stronger signal) doesn't work on FYT head-units. If you're in a country that doesn't use DAB this should be a deal breaker.
Wish I knew that before ordering mine, but I didn't even know it was an FYT head unit. xD
Also be aware that the Bluetooth pairing functionality is quite unintuitive to work if you plan to share data via bluetooth from your smartphone. It does not connect automatically so you need to connect manually every time.

Gaugamela said:
AF function (changing frequency of radio station when signal gets too weak to a stronger signal) doesn't work on FYT head-units. If you're in a country that doesn't use DAB this should be a deal breaker.
Wish I knew that before ordering mine, but I didn't even know it was an FYT head unit. xD
Also be aware that the Bluetooth pairing functionality is quite unintuitive to work if you plan to share data via bluetooth from your smartphone. It does not connect automatically so you need to connect manually every time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh okay thanks. That's fine I don't mind using WiFi for internet sharing. Or even usb if it's supported.
And yeah no plans to use the radio so we're good.

Gaugamela said:
AF function (changing frequency of radio station when signal gets too weak to a stronger signal) doesn't work on FYT head-units. If you're in a country that doesn't use DAB this should be a deal breaker.
Wish I knew that before ordering mine, but I didn't even know it was an FYT head unit. xD
Also be aware that the Bluetooth pairing functionality is quite unintuitive to work if you plan to share data via bluetooth from your smartphone. It does not connect automatically so you need to connect manually every time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
are you sure about that, have you tried https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...nd-sc9853i-fyt-devices.4387965/#post-86251871
Also, the BLuetooth on these units, comparatively, is very good, with proper BLE support via dual Bluetooth to support things like radar detectors (Valentine One.)

marchnz said:
are you sure about that, have you tried https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...nd-sc9853i-fyt-devices.4387965/#post-86251871
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I am sure. Go over the thread and Kotix explains it why he can't fix AF.
He made a work around for an user to easily switch between saved frequencies of the same radio station. But this is manual switching that an user needs to do by himself, not automated. This is not optimal when you're driving.

Gaugamela said:
Also be aware that the Bluetooth pairing functionality is quite unintuitive to work if you plan to share data via bluetooth from your smartphone. It does not connect automatically so you need to connect manually every time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Bluetooth connects immediately every time I enter the car.
I also find FM radio to be excellent using NavRadio+
AF isn't a deal breaker for me. I only have 1 station that jumps between frequencies occasionally (BBC Radio 2) and Kotix workaround is intuitive and easy to use.

The fact that it doesn't affect doesn't mean the issue isn't there.
Bluetooth works well. Bluetooth 2 doesn't. There's the simple work around of automating an wifi hot spot when your phone connects to Bluetooth.

It's true the NavRadio+ is a big improvement but the AF doesn't work at all.
My bluetooth always connects to phone 1 but if you have phone 2 it will not link to it, you have to pair it manually even if it has been conected previously. That's a shame.

Battoussai said:
It's true the NavRadio+ is a big improvement but the AF doesn't work at all.
My bluetooth always connects to phone 1 but if you have phone 2 it will not link to it, you have to pair it manually even if it has been conected previously. That's a shame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here - second phone never connects automatically. Really annoys me because we are two daily users of the car :/

Yeah, I know your pain lol. I suppose the manufacter would need to invest on a better bluetooth chip for two phones to work. I come from a Pioneer with bluetooth from 2008 and it already allowed to pair 2 distint phones at the SAME time!!! And it still works.

Battoussai said:
My bluetooth always connects to phone 1 but if you have phone 2 it will not link to it, you have to pair it manually even if it has been conected previously. That's a shame.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A recent thread addressed this and a reseller replied with a config.txt that seemingly results in the Bluetooth trying the last phone used and failing that trying the next phone in the list.
Does Bluetooth only reconnect to the last device used?
My unit allowed me to pair multiple phones (my wife and daughter also drive) but the Bluetooth system would only reconnect to the last phone used. So if I drove the car last, and then my wife drives, it won't connect to her phone without manually...
forum.xda-developers.com
I can see a few lines that might be relevant but I've no idea what the secret sauce is to change the behaviour.
Backup your current config.txt and give a few of them a try if you're confident.
Lines I can see that "might" relate to Bluetooth pairing...
ro.build.go_lasttop=true
sys.fyt.bluetooth_show_voice=true
persist.btpair.ssp=1
persist.fyt.enablebtvoice=true
persist.btautoconnect.count=3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Hum... thats interesting stuff. Thanks. I'll do a little more digging and give it a try if I discard the chance of bricking something.

This thread has gone completely off track