Hi all.... this is not your usual "I want to listen to FM on my otherwise unsupported ROM" request. What I'm requesting I think would be far more interesting, and if applied properly, could benefit many makes and models of phone. For that reason, maybe this belongs in an even more general forum, but I'm starting here because this is the phone I have and I don't know just how many other models use this same hardware.
I see that the HTC Doubleshot / T-Mobile MyTouch 4G Slide, along with several other phones, has a BCM4329-B1 radio chipset. This chip is reported in many places to be capable of not only FM Radio receive but also transmit. Unfortunately, that's as far as anyone goes with listing what it's capable of doing. Partly because of this (and partly because of search overload or maybe me not knowing what terms to use in my search), I can't find specs enough on the chip to know the full range of frequencies it receives. I have seen enough to imply that the same chip handles bluetooth, wifi, as well as FM broadcast band. Something as widespread as that might just be capable of extending receive capabilities outside of the usual broadcast band (for instance, maybe it can be used as a "police scanner" of sorts).
If nothing else, I think it would be fantastic to have an APK that can take MP3s or perhaps any kind of streaming media and retransmit it, low-power of course, to a nearby FM radio set to receive on the same frequency (much easier to get e.g. Pandora into every room in my house this way). I just figure if I'm going to ask for this I may as well ask for the world, right? Of course I don't expect a multiband ham radio to pop out of my phone, but if I could use it to maybe pick up a wireless microphone at 181 MHz, or act as a frequency meter (similar to WiFi Analyzer apk) for low-power transmitter troubleshooting, that would be phenomenal. Icing on the cake would be the ability to record what it receives, assuming it receives outside of band (record-to-file equals record-to-stream, here, meaning also record-and-serve-on-a-wifi-or-4G-link).
Any takers?
I wish I could offer time and skill but I just don't know enough about development nor does my life lend much in the way of free time for hobbies... I'm hopeful someone else has already thought of this.
Regards and TIA
cj chitwood said:
I'm hopeful someone else has already thought of this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a unique position on this, because it's a problem I run into consistently.
When i'm doing this and can't hear anything around me, and the camera gets no music when it records.
The only good way to deal with this without getting a noise disturbance violation at night is to use a couple of androids to sync all the music up - person(s) on camera has a device with headphones, sync up with the one playing music next to the camera.
There is no smooth way to handle that in random locations all over the place, way out of wifi range and possibly with no cell service as well.
There is no easy answer but there are ways of making it work. I'd write up a guide on how we do it now, but being down to only one device I can't run through it in front of me now, i'll have to wait until I see my friend again so we have two or 3 machines to use at once or I get my hands on another one (hopefully soon - this is my biggest aggravation with being temporarily down a device, no bluetooth or interacting with another device testing)
Since someone else in interested in the exact same issue here i'll take the time at some point to sit down and recap what worked or didn't work and link to the things that did. Have to be another day though, i'm pretty tired now and gonna catch some sleep soon.
Anyone else put effort into something like this?
Blue6IX said:
I have a unique position on this, because it's a problem I run into consistently.
When i'm doing this and can't hear anything around me, and the camera gets no music when it records.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah HAH! I WONDERED what you had for a "day" job!
Joking aside though, I'm surprised out where there's no cell signal they worry about noise violations... Here, there's a time limit (15 minutes at a time with at least I think a 5 minute break IIRC) but you can make noise pretty much any time at night. Just don't wake the neighbors up and nobody complains
Thanks for posting your thoughts. I'm willing to test insomuch as it won't risk the device. I just don't know enough to program my own app for this...
...if it's even possible: a guy at work reminded me today that just as CPU manufacturers use the same chip designation to indicate a CPU with and without features like L2 cache, phone mfgrs like Samsung (he has a not-so-new Galaxy phone) have been known to use this same chip with the FM radio capabilities completely absent to the point that someone in the know actually removed the chip from his device, hooked it up on a bench, and was completely unable to get it to do anything FM radio related. It may be that while some iterations of the chip overall are capable of being made with transmit, that it's quite likely transmit itself was left out of the hardware itself.
I'd still like to see if it's possible. Maybe if the chip identifies itself in the OS, we can see how it does, and maybe it will hint at whether transmit was included or not.
Found this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1042094
Which implies this was originally touched upon before the Evo... However, it also provides enough info as to say the only FM receive/transmit this chip will do OOB is FM broadcast band (76-108 MHz). Still, it can transmit...
Bump!!!!
That would be ill if you could transmit on FM band ...... anyone make any progress?
Although why not just stream via bluetooth? what would the advantage to transmitting on fm band be other than epic nerd street cred
Some_dude36 said:
Bump!!!!
That would be ill if you could transmit on FM band ...... anyone make any progress?
Although why not just stream via bluetooth? what would the advantage to transmitting on fm band be other than epic nerd street cred
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not all devices support a2dp
Sent from my RubiX ICS Infused using Tapatalk
Fm xmit might go farther, especially if the right antenna can be made.
Fm can be simultaneously received by multiple devices. Think here tv-out to a small portable projector showing the latest theatrical releases in full composite glory and stereo sound out of the viewers' battery operated headphone radios all while offering 4g data hotspot... :~/
Honestly, the real reason for me is the fm radios in the garage are louder than the portable computer speakers I've been playing Pandora through and I hate the dinky transmitter that came with my wife's ipod because it only does 4 stations high in the band. This would make that much easier (and I'm sure many others would find a use for this).
--
Sent from my Android ”phone”:
HTC DoubleShot /T-Mobile MyTouch 4G Slide running Bulletproof
FM Transmit:
I get asked this question regularly, and my response is generally: "Forget about it, almost no Android phones connect the FM Transmit pins anywhere useful".
But a few months ago a helpful person sent me an HTC FM transmit app. Apparently it was meant for the T-Mobile/HTC Mytouch 4G, and apparently that device is supposed to have the transmit pins connected.
I have no idea (yet) if that is true or if this also applies to the "Slide" variant.
I'm sure this will only work on ROMs that use the Broadcom proprietary Bluetooth stack and that have sufficient parts of Sense present. IE, a stock or stock derived ROM. It probably requires Froyo or GingerBread.
If anyone has or can load such a ROM and wants to try, and will commit to reporting their results, email me at mikereidis AT gmail.com and I'll send the APK.
Thanks...
mikereidis said:
FM Transmit:
...
But a few months ago a helpful person sent me an HTC FM transmit app. Apparently it was meant for the T-Mobile/HTC Mytouch 4G, and apparently that device is supposed to have the transmit pins connected.
I have no idea (yet) if that is true or if this also applies to the "Slide" variant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had one tester who reported success, but on the non "Slide" version. Details and a link to the app are here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31328070&postcount=4391
mikereidis said:
I had one tester who reported success, but on the non "Slide" version. Details and a link to the app are here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31328070&postcount=4391
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I installed it on a stock sense rom on the MT4GS and the app loads, but when I press transmit it just stays on the "FM Transmitter turning on" so I'm guessing that means that it won't work...
marc12868 said:
I installed it on a stock sense rom on the MT4GS and the app loads, but when I press transmit it just stays on the "FM Transmitter turning on" so I'm guessing that means that it won't work...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for trying.
That's exactly what happens on my Desire HD and Desire Z running stock derived Gingerbread.
The success report for the non-slide phone was on Android 2.2.1. I don't know if 2.3.x is possible, but I'll find out when I get my myTouch 4G HD hopefully by the end of the week.
I expect to add a transmit test function to my FM app Spirit at some point, and it will then likely work on any ROM, though audio routing could be a challenge.
marc12868 said:
I installed it on a stock sense rom on the MT4GS and the app loads, but when I press transmit it just stays on the "FM Transmitter turning on" so I'm guessing that means that it won't work...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get the same exact scenario myself. I even went to the extent of making sure I had some audio playing to make sure that it wasn't just the fact there was no audio and it might have been waiting for it. still no joy. It appears that the slide variant of the MyTouch 4G does indeed not have the Fm transmit pins connected. then again, I have not looked at my logs yet, so I do not know exactly what it has been doing.
--
Sent from my Bulletproof Swiss Army Doubleshot using the XDA app and stock voice to text.
Hope this lolcat helps
https://www.box.com/shared/6parlnbt3j3y6o5fgopq
--
Sent from my Bulletproof Swiss Army Doubleshot using the XDA app.
The logcat doesn't show any errors with executing the FM Transmitter app. What I can see is the FM Reciever gets activated on the logcat. I should say that FMTx & FMRx cannot be run in the same time.
1. So the error could be the FMTx got killed by the FMRx intentionally.
2. BCM4329 driver doesn't have the code to interact with the FMTx chipset.
If the mt4gs does indeed have FMTx on it's chipset then I'm sure it's working/connected on the board else we wouldn't have any FM Radio on our device.
Bluetooth, FMTx & FMRx is located in the same part of the chipset. One dies then all of them dies.
Now anybody here could link me to the stock kernel of the device which made this work? I could look at the bcm driver on that kernel and maybe I could hook it up on the mt4gs kernel to make it work.
---------- Post added at 11:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------
Ok guys confirmed! Hardware should be capable of transmitting fm frequencies.
Looking at the data sheet FM Tx & Rx are bidirectional which means as long as FM Rx is working so will be Tx.
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"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
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Now the problems left would be the driver & the Hardware Abstraction Layer(HAL). Since we already have an FM Tx app.
LOLcat ?
Yes, the 4329 has TX inside, no problem, but I'm pretty sure it can only transmit or receive at one time, never simultaneously.
Every time I've looked at the internals of the Broadcom proprietary Bluetooth stack I've seen the transmit function, and HTCs implementation tends to include that, and their own mods.
The biggest issue should be whether or not the Transmit pins are connected to the headset. Heck, most of the phones with this chip don't even connect the receive antenna pins. (IE no FM radio whatsoever, grrr, what a waste.)
That said, I'm not quite sure why the TX app hangs on most phones, other than the plain myTouch 4G. There might be some difference and I hope to get to the bottom of it.
And eventually, I should be able to make Transmit work on any BCM4329 device with the transmit antenna pins wired, but there will likely be very few such devices.
And before anyone asks, it will likely be completely infeasible to make the hardware mod needed, same as for FM receive antenna pins.
I see 28 downloads of the FMTx app now.
mikereidis said:
LOLcat ?
Yes, the 4329 has TX inside, no problem, but I'm pretty sure it can only transmit or receive at one time, never simultaneously.
Every time I've looked at the internals of the Broadcom proprietary Bluetooth stack I've seen the transmit function, and HTCs implementation tends to include that, and their own mods.
The biggest issue should be whether or not the Transmit pins are connected to the headset. Heck, most of the phones with this chip don't even connect the receive antenna pins. (IE no FM radio whatsoever, grrr, what a waste.)
That said, I'm not quite sure why the TX app hangs on most phones, other than the plain myTouch 4G. There might be some difference and I hope to get to the bottom of it.
And eventually, I should be able to make Transmit work on any BCM4329 device with the transmit antenna pins wired, but there will likely be very few such devices.
And before anyone asks, it will likely be completely infeasible to make the hardware mod needed, same as for FM receive antenna pins.
I see 28 downloads of the FMTx app now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi! As I said if FMRx works then should be FMTx. So it's clear now that hardware wise FMTx should be fully working. Now software wise that I still don't know.
Regarding antenna I'm not quite sure if it's really necessary? You see I have a device here Nokia N900 which has a built in FMRx & FMTx feature which was really implemented by nokia. And I already dissassembled it alot of time to the point I know each and every part of it And I can activate it's FMTx without the need of a headset. I just need to play the music player select the Transmit FM option and select the frequency I want then I can channel the music to any radio reciever 1 to 2 meters away from me without the need of an antenna.
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Radio_Transmitter
Riyal said:
Hi! As I said if FMRx works then should be FMTx. So it's clear now that hardware wise FMTx should be fully working. Now software wise that I still don't know.
Regarding antenna I'm not quite sure if it's really necessary? You see I have a device here Nokia N900 which has a built in FMRx & FMTx feature which was really implemented by nokia. And I already dissassembled it alot of time to the point I know each and every part of it And I can activate it's FMTx without the need of a headset. I just need to play the music player select the Transmit FM option and select the frequency I want then I can channel the music to any radio reciever 1 to 2 meters away from me without the need of an antenna.
http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Radio_Transmitter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the CHIP has all the hardware needed. But the most important "hardware part" is the connection of something to the FM Tx antenna pin. Even if the pins aren't grounded (Which tends to kill all chance) and left floating, the chips are inside "RF shields" will just about kills any chance of reception/transmission.
Every radio receiver or transmitter MUST have an antenna. On some devices it may be internal and you don't see it, but it's definitely there. On old AM radios internal antennas were a LONG piece of wire wrapped around a bar (ferrite?).
In some cases, an antenna is just circuit board traces. For high frequencies, such as cell or GPS or Bt/WiFi only very small antennas are needed. For lower frequencies, like FM around 100 MHz, the best antennas are roughly the length of headset cables.
This could possibly be coiled and wrapped around something and hidden inside the phone. But it's there, no way around needing an antenna.
I have some phones that do remarkably well with no wired headset for an antenna. But an "antenna" of sorts is still there, even if it's only several millimetres to centimetres of circuit board traces meant to connect the antenna pins on the chip to the headset.
Yeah, LOLcat. when you go into command prompt, "adb lolcat" is the same as "adb logcat". Apparently, the team at Google said "logcat" so often and so fast it sounded like "lolcat" to them.
Mikereidis is correct, you do need an antenna, even if it's hidden. Otherwise you have extremely high standing wave ratio (SWR) that will eventually fry your transmit amplifier. This is basic radio theory at play, that one learns when becoming FCC licensed radio operators like General Radiotelephone Operator or Amateur Radio Operator (I'm the latter of these, KE4EDD, though I haven't picked up a transceiver in about a decade).
Like he said, it's not as critical at higher frequencies because wavelength (and therefore necessary antenna length) is shorter and can be hidden inside the device (take the cover off your MT4GS and you'll see three separate antennae all up around the camera lens -- they're just thin sheets of metal on this phone).
Still, the pinout of the chip itself is important. This I know nothing of as I haven't seen it. either way, if the spec sheet says Rx and Tx work on the same connections (e.g., they both require the same pins to be "high" in order to physically activate either mode) then all we need is to get the HAL and driver set up. I know nothing of this as well. Wish I could help. All I can do is offer my phone's lolcat services.
On that note, I received a <sisa:###:##:#::#> text message this morning, appears that it's a T-mo thing, that T-mo is trying to update my phone (which is running a custom ROM), and now my digitizer doesn't work, so I may need to hold off on even the lolcat until I get it fixed.
cj chitwood said:
"adb lolcat" is the same as "adb logcat". Apparently, the team at Google said "logcat" so often and so fast it sounded like "lolcat" to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Learn something new every day. But I think it was more a joke about the very popular meme than mis-hearing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolcat
cj chitwood said:
you do need an antenna, even if it's hidden. Otherwise you have extremely high standing wave ratio (SWR) that will eventually fry your transmit amplifier. This is basic radio theory at play, that one learns when becoming FCC licensed radio operators like General Radiotelephone Operator or Amateur Radio Operator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know the theory, but I've never believed that low power, under 100 mw transmitters get damaged too often. But I imagine a final output transistor on a chip can't take as much abuse as an external one.
cj chitwood said:
Still, the pinout of the chip itself is important. This I know nothing of as I haven't seen it. either way, if the spec sheet says Rx and Tx work on the same connections (e.g., they both require the same pins to be "high" in order to physically activate either mode) then all we need is to get the HAL and driver set up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Documents about these chips are "very secret". I can't even find much on Chinese sites that specialise in proprietary documents. The official vague block diagrams can't be trusted either.
But if the transmit and receive pins were the same pins, I'm pretty sure we would have achieved FM transmit long ago on the most popular Broadcom chips, on devices that support receive. That said, I think the much rarer Qualcomm Tavarua chips use the same pins, and there are no transmit reports on them.
I've looked at schematics of some phones, and I've seen FM antenna pins specifically labelled as "Rx", so that's another clue in favor of the idea that Rx and Tx pins are different. This might also be easier to achieve on the chip.
I wonder too if it's easier to achieve FCC etc certification if the hardware design specifically makes FM transmit impossible.
I'm certain it is easier to achieve, as long as they can certify to the FCC that no more than so many milliwatts will be pushed out. Then again, with as many transmitters as there are that are available to the public, it can't be that hard to do.
We keep talking about Tx and Rx pins. In my limited experience with chips, I'm wondering if these are antenna pins, or activation pins. I also wouldn't be surprised if it was that some chips have a mode select pin (high is one mode, low is another) that could be labeled both as Tx and Rx, and each mode requires a separate other pin to have a certain voltage on it to provide power for that section of the chip. Alternatively, to have two mode select pins, again whichever one is hot selects the mode, and the third pin provides power for both modes, and thus is labeled Tx Rx even if the mode select pin isn't attached.
Either way, if pinouts are so secretive about this, it's pointless to discuss pins because they literally could be anything. I think however that you having seen the innards and/or schematics of these devices means that you would know more than I as I have yet to even crack mine open
Oh and the lolcat thing... no, you really can type "adb lolcat" in command prompt and it runs a logcat. The explanation for this was literally that they said "logcat" so fast it sounded like "lolcat". I am fully aware of the meme, http://icanhascheezburger.com and have forwarded quite a few on to the wife even.
Related
Its just an idea. I dont know if it is possible with kaiser or not. But I have feeling that it might be possible.
Is it possible to make a software that can transmit a song using kaiser on FM frequency just like those external FM transmitters for car? I think it is possible coz Kaiser already have the radio wave transmitting device inside it since GSM network works on radio frequency. But I might be wrong. So just a question for those genius minds here at XDA
Life would be so easy if this is possible. You go into the car start a song on your kaiser and bingo!! it is connected to your car's music system without any hassle of wires.
Just an idea,
Regards
dude u need fm transmitter - something like this http://www.solware.co.uk/fm-transmitter/
it is a hardware issue not software!!
this thread should be in kaiser general or at most kaiser software
hardik119 said:
Its just an idea. I dont know if it is possible with kaiser or not. But I have feeling that it might be possible.
Is it possible to make a software that can transmit a song using kaiser on FM frequency just like those external FM transmitters for car? I think it is possible coz Kaiser already have the radio wave transmitting device inside it since GSM network works on radio frequency. But I might be wrong. So just a question for those genius minds here at XDA
Life would be so easy if this is possible. You go into the car start a song on your kaiser and bingo!! it is connected to your car's music system without any hassle of wires.
Just an idea,
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man... you are completely wrong. Kaiser (like any other cell phone) have radio for communicating with GSM / UMTS baseband stations, BUT. But that radio operates on ABSOLUTELY different frequency! FM radio works on 89-108 MHz, GSM works on 800/900MHz - 1800/1900MHz and UMTS even higher! Despite of this great frequency difference it operates with different modulation, different width of channel and especially it operates in digital mode (instead analog as in case of FM radio).
So... it would be nice, right, but it is absolutelly impossible. It is possible as you would try to beam a light with microwave oven (light is electromagnetic radiation and microwave oven produces that, right?)... just forget it
Motorola T505 Bluetooth to FM
Check this out....
MOTOROKR™ T505 Bluetooth® In-Car Speakerphone with Digital FM TransmitterMOTOROKR™ T505 Bluetooth® In-Car Speakerphone with Digital FM Transmitter
http://direct.motorola.com/hellomoto/t505/
Got ya!! It was just a thought you know. and good example of microwave oven.
@Jahrami & Xboomer55
I know about those hardwares but I was talking something different. Probably I wrote it confusing so you couldn't understand my point. But anyways it is not possible. Wish it was possible. You can't imagine how easier life would be with that thing possible.
Andy_S said:
Man... you are completely wrong. Kaiser (like any other cell phone) have radio for communicating with GSM / UMTS baseband stations, BUT. But that radio operates on ABSOLUTELY different frequency! FM radio works on 89-108 MHz, GSM works on 800/900MHz - 1800/1900MHz and UMTS even higher! Despite of this great frequency difference it operates with different modulation, different width of channel and especially it operates in digital mode (instead analog as in case of FM radio).
So... it would be nice, right, but it is absolutelly impossible. It is possible as you would try to beam a light with microwave oven (light is electromagnetic radiation and microwave oven produces that, right?)... just forget it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont believe it is absolutely impossible, just highly unlikely. It has to do with whether or not there is an oscillator in the phone capable of creating something as low as 88MHz. I have no doubt the phone could do something as simple as fm modulation, am modulation would be even easier.
we all wish that but we also know its impossible
but if four of us (kaiser owner) met we can build a baby microwave rom our phones check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg_dyD0Nsjw
hardik119 said:
Wish it was possible. You can't imagine how easier life would be with that thing possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nokia has this feature?
I think the newer Nokia phones have this FM transmitter capability. Although it's really just another "feature" to hammer the already p¡ss-poor battery life on Nokias!
Don't worry... I won't be heading back to Nokialand for this. The N80 was enough to send me to Windows Mobile for the forseeable future.
mastaworm said:
It has to do with whether or not there is an oscillator in the phone capable of creating something as low as 88MHz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are baseband filters to cutout noise and harmonics to maximize phone output and minimize those bad harmonics (ever heard about SAR? ) so... NO is the simpliest answer. The best choice is to either buy that motorola gadget / Car Radio with bluetooth receiver, or build your own car audio system (i am planning to do so)
So I've had a project for the last few months getting Android running as an infotainment system. Here is a demo i thought i'd share with you guys..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNcDq9S8n3I
Basic features:
Android 2.1 (looking to update to GB)
7inch touch-screen (800x480)
3G modem
GPS
Reverse camera (backup camera to see what's behind you)
USB port
would love to hear some criticism or anything regarding the device.. its not perfect, its got a few bugs and glitches.. but is sort of ready for everyday use but is missing a few components to make it 'official' android device (wifi, bluetooth etc).. but i'm just wondering if anyone is interested in something like this? Is this worth developing further on?
This thing runs on Cortex a8 omap3530 board and is based off 0xdroid build.
apologies if im in the wrong forum
Wow dude, thats really cool! I'd love one of these for my car. If you could get Honeycomb on that bad boy it'd be sweet! Just wondering, how do you plan on setting up a rear view camera? Just connect a camera at the back of the car to the tablet itself, then run the Camera app? Seems like the simplest way to me..
Haha cheers love to see the honeycomb source once its out then we'll talk although I'd imagine i'd need better hardware...
currently camera is interfaced by usb (has a usb hub) so i got a cable running under the carpet through the boot then camera is mounted on the bumper. yup camera is called by any camera calling intent.. so any app can use it.
I want to get some proximity sensors (like parking sensors) and write a proper reverse cam app to complement it. But we'll see...
Very cool!
I've been wanting to do this for a while, but I was going to use MeeGo or maybe Moblin since I don't have the programming skills (or Android knowledge for that matter) to build my own computer around Android. I dig what you got so far though.
My suggestion for the reverse camera is one of two things, because it would bug me to have to find and open the camera app every time I needed to back up.
Keep your touchscreen (what model are you using BTW?) and use a bluetooth or wi-fi relay (I know they make 'em, but they are $$$) to provide an input from +12V signal from your reverse light wire to automatically open the camera app, then close the app. Of course, you'd have to program for that.
Or
Have you considered this touch screen? Lilliput 7" touch screen with auto-reverse input. (Needs a RCA camera though)
http://store.mp3car.com/Lilliput_629GL_70NP_C_T_7_VGA_Touchscreen_w_Aut_p/MON-016-0002.htm
This is the one I plan on using since it switches automatically to the camera input whenever you are in reverse. Once you go back to any other gear, the OS input shows up again.
Just a thought to make life a little more convenient (although you already bought your parts so you may be stuck.)
chjade84 said:
Very cool!
I've been wanting to do this for a while, but I was going to use MeeGo or maybe Moblin since I don't have the programming skills (or Android knowledge for that matter) to build my own computer around Android. I dig what you got so far though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! It needs a lot of time and dedication but it's a real good learning curve. I had to learn a lot of things on the way.. especially c/c++ I wasn't great at but had decent skills with higher level programming.
If you are planning to work with MeeGo its a little fussy with the hardware requirements.. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think you need an Intel Atom processor. These are a little pricey if you're after an evaluation/hackable kit! But I'd imagine it'll be easier to program as it's a lot more closey coupled with linux.
chjade84 said:
My suggestion for the reverse camera is one of two things, because it would bug me to have to find and open the camera app every time I needed to back up.
Keep your touchscreen (what model are you using BTW?) and use a bluetooth or wi-fi relay (I know they make 'em, but they are $$$) to provide an input from +12V signal from your reverse light wire to automatically open the camera app, then close the app. Of course, you'd have to program for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just had a look at those relays, sounds like its something I really need! Is this how the standard backup cameras work? That was something I was confused about.. I wasn't sure how to detect if i'm on reverse.. especially with the parts I already had. I'd imagine once you implement it you just need a service running in the background to listen for the relay.
The touchscreen is a TFT resistive 4wire touch-screen. It's not something I want to keep as I really want capacitive multi-touch.. But this fits perfectly with the board and was easier to deal with
chjade84 said:
Or
Have you considered this touch screen? Lilliput 7" touch screen with auto-reverse input. (Needs a RCA camera though)
http://store.mp3car.com/Lilliput_629GL_70NP_C_T_7_VGA_Touchscreen_w_Aut_p/MON-016-0002.htm
This is the one I plan on using since it switches automatically to the camera input whenever you are in reverse. Once you go back to any other gear, the OS input shows up again.
Just a thought to make life a little more convenient (although you already bought your parts so you may be stuck.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice find! I wish I saw that earlier .. Quite pricey but would make life so much easierrrrr!
Cheers for the feedback! Best of luck for your project!
tknz said:
I just had a look at those relays, sounds like its something I really need! Is this how the standard backup cameras work? That was something I was confused about.. I wasn't sure how to detect if i'm on reverse.. especially with the parts I already had. I'd imagine once you implement it you just need a service running in the background to listen for the relay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think most factory backup cameras use two inputs and switch between them. I don't have a lot of experience with them though.
chjade84 said:
I think most factory backup cameras use two inputs and switch between them. I don't have a lot of experience with them though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what you mean exactly. I'll try the relays because it at-least gives me a standard interface to work with (bluetooth or wifi) so there isn't any work you have to deal with on the hardware abstraction.. Although it would probably be better designed if I had some sort of voltage input coming when the vehicle on reverse (the reverse light as mentioned). But I don't really have the electrical expertise to make it happen lol.
tknz said:
Not sure what you mean exactly. I'll try the relays because it at-least gives me a standard interface to work with (bluetooth or wifi) so there isn't any work you have to deal with on the hardware abstraction.. Although it would probably be better designed if I had some sort of voltage input coming when the vehicle on reverse (the reverse light as mentioned). But I don't really have the electrical expertise to make it happen lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well essentially what I was thinking was you'd have the bluetooth relay hooked up to your reverse light wire. This should allow your computer to monitor whether or not your car was in reverse. Relays are pretty simple - one input switches on/off another, usually one of a much higher or lower voltage. So in essence, it's a switch activated by voltage. (There used to be an electromagnet inside that physically moves a piece of metal to make a connection when a voltage is applied - now it's all transistors and whatnot.)
So, if you are in reverse and your reverse lights are getting power, the bluetooth relay should sense that and signal the computer (through a serial command it seems) which in turn could tell a background service to open the camera app. Once the voltage from the reverse light wire is lost, the relay should again tell the computer that you aren't in reverse anymore and the background service would close the camera app and re-open whatever app you were in.
*I should note this is all "in theory"... I don't know exactly how those wireless relays work/communicate and I don't know Android programming at all.
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking what about using the GPIOs on the board and attach that to the reverse light? would that be possible? and using some resistors on the way to limit the voltages so i don't fry the board.. but we just need to detect some voltage input...
Not sure, will look into it. Right now, taking a pause on the development.. Got a lot of work to take care of but I can't wait to get back into it. I really want to port this to gingerbread.
tknz said:
Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking what about using the GPIOs on the board and attach that to the reverse light? would that be possible? and using some resistors on the way to limit the voltages so i don't fry the board.. but we just need to detect some voltage input...
Not sure, will look into it. Right now, taking a pause on the development.. Got a lot of work to take care of but I can't wait to get back into it. I really want to port this to gingerbread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could possibly do that, a real cheap voltage regulator would probably be better though. You could also use a cheap relay if the correct voltage is already somewhere on the car. Again, I'm not too sure how those bluetooth relays work, but it sounds like you are on the right track.
Great Job!
I was thinking of doing something similar myself.
I am looking at going with one of the tablets as it is just seems easier? I only really need internet, google maps(GPS) and wifi tethering. I would imagine you are running stereo sound from a 3.5mm? I would still have a seperate head unit to control volume and handle all the regular functions as well as inputs from a 3.5 to RCA cable.
How are you running sound off that setup? Are you running a head unit still?
The sound is running off a small amplifier. then RCA to 3.5mm.
Haven't had the chance to play around with the wifi tether as right now i don't have a wifi card.. It would make sense to have wifi tethering or just wifi reciever and use a phone to tether 3g to the system. Avoids having separate data plans.
Can we get a copy of your "AIVI Car Home" for our own DIY projects?
I don't mind releasing the source for it. Its just right now its a bit messy and quite a few things are hardcoded.
tknz said:
So I've had a project for the last few months getting Android running as an infotainment system. Here is a demo i thought i'd share with you guys..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice project. I gutted a Clarion Mind last year to do pretty much the same thing but am looking to upgrade. You said the software needs work but it's a real good start. Would you mind sharing your hardware list with us?
Nice work!
Something I was also interested in seeing is having vehicle manufacturer recommended service intervals and such available as reminders from your in car system or phone or both.
Stu_Gotti said:
Something I was also interested in seeing is having vehicle manufacturer recommended service intervals and such available as reminders from your in car system or phone or both.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could use 'aCar' which, if you are unfamiliar, you enter the make, model, mileage and all the pertinent service requirements. Battery every 3 years or 50,000 miles, coolant every year or 15,000 miles, oil every 6 months or 3,000 miles, etc. Then, every time you get gas you enter the current mileage as well as gallons/liters of fuel and the price. From that information you not only get your MPG but it will also trigger reminders to do the necessary maintenance at the correct intervals when they come up. You can do this for multiple cars as well. It's a very good program.
On a related note to this thread, I started my own 'carputer' project using an Archos 70 Internet Tablet and an unused articulating wall mount for TVs. It's still a work in progress as well since I don't have all the parts yet but will do everything I wanted (eventually... lol) except the rear facing camera. The video is obviously just of the media player.
I shot this late last night to show a friend. He wanted to know why someone would want a tablet/computer in their car, lol. Sorry about it being so dark.
Dude
I am keen as mustard on one of these beauties, I was considering running xp MCE but the android option would be much nicer..
Love ya work.
tknz said:
I don't mind releasing the source for it. Its just right now its a bit messy and quite a few things are hardcoded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please do. Would love to play with it. No matter how clean the code is it's just gonna get better...
thanks for showing it..
UPDATE 5/26/2011: I have put together a tutorial and will keep it updated. It can be found at this link. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=14111386&postcount=207 The project is not fully completed but working! Keep following us as we progress through this thread.
Ok, I’ve been digging around recently and have been getting nowhere. From a bunch of emails and PM’s that took me a long time to write, I have gotten nothing back. So I am starting a new thread here.
I am in the process of finding info on the internal GPS module that the G-Pad is capable of having installed. I am willing to use my tablet as a demo to see if I can get it working! If it works, I will make a detailed thread on how to go about installing a GPS module into the G-Tablet. So speak up if you know your electronics please!!!
What I have compiled so far
A member from XDA forums literally bought a kit (eBay Post) that enabled GPS use. He posted that the chip that he installed was a RXM-GPS-SG-B found at this link (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&site=US&KeyWords=RXM-GPS-SG-B&x=0&y=0). After looking at the data sheet for this chip I’m pretty sure that this chip will work on the G-tablet board. All of the pins line up properly and everything. In the XDA post that I read, after the install of the chip he posted “I now have power to the chip and its working. When I click on the place app now it no longer just says wait but comes up with aps where to go.” This is a good sign in that it is already enabled in the VS bootloader kernel. Basically if you can get it soldered in and enabled it should work. The problem is that he claimed that pin 12 (vcc) did not have power and he had to power it from another source. He claimed that he tapped into the USB +5v power. That would have worked ok if the GPS chip needed 5v power. The chip itself needs 3.3v of power. This user was overvolting his GPS chip from the get-go. He had reported some issues with it and I think that this overvolting was part of the problem.
Here is a picture of the installed chip via the XDA forums. Sorry for the smallness it was as big as I could find. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585865&stc=1&d=1304460793
My theory is that you can tap into the 3.3v pin that is located on the mini PCI e headers and use this for power. This will provide the correct voltage. Here is a picture of the empty spots on the board. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585866&d=1304460792
As you can see in the picture above there is an “empty” power circuit located below where the GPS chip would reside. I read a post on XDA that claimed that if properly hooked up correctly it would probably produce the 3.3v output needed for the GPS chip also. The items that the user claimed could possible make it work were as follows.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=NCP51460SN33T1GOSCT-ND Part# NCP51460SN33T1G
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=NCP551SN33T1GOSCT-ND Part# NCP551SN33T1G
I do not have enough knowledge about IC’s to know how these are used. If anyone has an idea let me know. They go in the power circuit somehow.
The next part is the antenna connector. This would get installed in the empty “ANT2” connector. This should be an easy mount and is exactly how “ANT1” the wifi antenna is connected. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585863&d=1304460740
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=H9161CT-ND Part# U.FL-R-SMT(10)
Finally onto the antenna itself. Although I have read that a passive antenna can be hooked up to this chip, an active antenna seems like it would get much better reception. The antenna that I have read a lot about is the following.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/D...&lang=en&site=us&keywords=931-1014-ND&x=0&y=0 Part# ALA.01.07.0095A
This antenna would literally just snap onto the antenna 2 connector and it should work. Now to run an active antenna the GPS data sheet says that a 300ohm ferrite bead needs to be installed. This is the part where the member at XDA also messed up. He wired an antenna with a 300ohm resistor thinking it worked the same as a ferrite bead. A ferrite bead basically reduces any interference coming from the antenna going to the chip. Here is a link to the proper ferrite bead.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=445-6406-1-ND Part# MMZ1608D220C
The ferrite bead is also where I have run into problems. I do not know how to properly install one of these and I have no idea if there is even a spot on the board to do so. Any help in this area would also be appreciated. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585873&stc=1&d=1304461146
The antenna should be able to fit in the plastic up at the top of the case while also providing ample reception.
After all of this is installed hopefully the GPS chip will work. Although this sounds like a complicated project there is not actually that much soldering to do. The main GPS chip is actually most of the soldering. I am hoping that someone reads and appreciates that work that I have compiled/done so far. Any help on this project would be greatly appreciated. Also please do not post “why don’t you just use an external Bluetooth module.” I get that these work great, but I just want to see if the internal GPS will function. Attached below is everything I could possibly obtain after browsing through the entire internet looking for any type of documentation on this project Thanks for taking time to read through this post.
Last Thoughts
Here is a more in depth picture that shows the GPS connection and GPS schematic from the datasheet. It is very helpful. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585868&d=1304460792
I posted datasheets as attachments for the GPS Module and the Antenna I hope this helps out. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585875&stc=1&d=1304461367
Here is the entire system board for those who need a complete picture. http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=585867&d=1304460792
References
Thanks to the following people from XDA
mystkrh
6.055chevy
vsc
also to anyone I missed sorry
I will not be much help here, but I applaud your efforts.
I hope someone fills in the rest of the picture... I would love to do this to my G-Tab.
Great post Fosser2!
I too would like to have an internal GPS solution. I have a little electronics experience and I'm willing to go down this road as well.
For the ferrite bead, it looks like it gets soldered in at the L1 pad on the board.
All the other parts you listed look like they'll fit. The 3.3v chips you listed are just regulators. They "regulate" how much voltage goes through them. You feed them 5v (or whatever) and they spit out 3.3v.
What I'm wondering next is what about all the capacitors that are missing (all the C### labels on the board). Those regulators need some and the GPS chip itself looks like it needs some as well. I'll download the data-sheets and dig through those.
Hopefully others will chime in as well.
-John
twistedrotors said:
Great post Fosser2!
I too would like to have an internal GPS solution. I have a little electronics experience and I'm willing to go down this road as well.
For the ferrite bead, it looks like it gets soldered in at the L1 pad on the board.
All the other parts you listed look like they'll fit. The 3.3v chips you listed are just regulators. They "regulate" how much voltage goes through them. You feed them 5v (or whatever) and they spit out 3.3v.
What I'm wondering next is what about all the capacitors that are missing (all the C### labels on the board). Those regulators need some and the GPS chip itself looks like it needs some as well. I'll download the data-sheets and dig through those.
Hopefully others will chime in as well.
-John
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well honestly I'm not sure about all the C#### labels. I think when I order the parts (Thursday) I will only be ordering the GPS, Antenna, the ferrite bead and the antenna connector. I will be using that 3.3v from the mini PCI e header and pray it works. (hopefully bypassing the need for "regulators.") I'm just hoping that it will be detected software side. I guess time will tell But for all others keep posting on this topic because your expertise is greatly helpful.
Another alternative is looking into the Ericson 3307G which the Zpad, uses for GPS. (Gps version)
The 3307G has GPS and 3G, though it is a mPCIE card, so u need to put one of those on the board.
It may be easier though as you can modify the zpad roms for the gtab.
roguey said:
Another alternative is looking into the Ericson 3307G which the Zpad, uses for GPS. (Gps version)
The 3307G has GPS and 3G, though it is a mPCIE card, so u need to put one of those on the board.
It may be easier though as you can modify the zpad roms for the gtab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For right now, I'm going to roll with the actual gps chip. I did put some though into installing the mPCIE slot but I'm hoping that the GPS is more just dropping in and hoping it works. The mPCIE slot seems like it would be tough to get working software side, but thats just my 2cents.
well apparently pershoot's kernel supports it (3g version anyway), its just the rom that needs the modifying.
Remember the Zpad and Gtab are basiclly the same thing, main thing missing from the Gtab is the pcie and Antenna.
Looks like a great project. I'll be following your progress.
I wanted to mention that the ferrite bead in your link is 22 olms not 300 you list in your post.
dhanifin said:
Looks like a great project. I'll be following your progress.
I wanted to mention that the ferrite bead in your link is 22 olms not 300 you list in your post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good call on that one. Here is what the data sheet specifically says about the ferrite bead.
Code:
"A 300 ohm ferrite bead should be used to connect this line to the
RFIN line. This bead will prevent the RF from getting into the power supply, but
will allow the DC voltage onto the RF trace to feed into the antenna. A series
capacitor inside the module prevents this DC voltage from affecting the bias on
the module’s internal LNA.
Maintaining a 50 ohm path between the module and antenna is critical. Errors in
layout can significantly impact the module’s performance. Please review the
layout guidelines elsewhere in this guide carefully to become more familiar with
these considerations."
If you can do me a favor and try to find the proper ferrite bead to meet these specifications that would be great. I'll keep looking on my end.
The other reason that I had this ferrite bead was the user "vsc" recommended it in this post. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12242377&postcount=54
Here is what he said:
Code:
2) The GPS receiver datasheet says for the ferrite bead, 300 ohms at 100 MHz. But every bead that meets that specification that I found also doesn't have good isolation at ~1.5 GHz (GPS band). As such I picked a different bead based upon my "good" judgement which will provide isolation between the antenna and LNA supply.
It looks like you are serious about this - but - are you PCB hardware and software engineer? After all the hardware prototype, you have to make the BIOS recognize and get the driver for this motherboard..etc...ouches - lots of work...
Unless you are into this to make the business on it - I would say "waste of time" (sorry - if offended to you). And I assum this could be your hobby to play around with electronic, pcb..etc...but if you are very good at EE/EEE and assembly language, Java - you are welcome to try on this
good luck!
fosser2 said:
The ferrite bead is also where I have run into problems. I do not know how to properly install one of these and I have no idea if there is even a spot on the board to do so. Any help in this area would also be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ferrite bead would be soldered onto the PCB at L11 (upper left on the first picture). It goes between pin 17 of the chip and the antenna connector.
rcjpth said:
It looks like you are serious about this - but - are you PCB hardware and software engineer? After all the hardware prototype, you have to make the BIOS recognize and get the driver for this motherboard..etc...ouches - lots of work...
Unless you are into this to make the business on it - I would say "waste of time" (sorry - if offended to you). And I assum this could be your hobby to play around with electronic, pcb..etc...but if you are very good at EE/EEE and assembly language, Java - you are welcome to try on this
good luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently I'm like 85% sure that the GPS support is built directly into the software. I have been directly talking to roebeet. He said that in his newest firmware "brilliant corners" that he deleted a script that checked to see if there was a gps chip installed and then enabled/disabled it accordingly.
Code:
With my Brilliant Corners update, I actually noticed a script that gets run and changes the library file, depending on the GPS installed.
So well I am still unsure about a number of things, I'm going to press my luck and continue with the project I will be ordering the parts tomm.
Here is a 300 Ohm ferrite bead that should work. It's the same package size as the original 22 Ohm one that was posted.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=445-2171-1-ND
-John
twistedrotors said:
Here is a 300 Ohm ferrite bead that should work. It's the same package size as the original 22 Ohm one that was posted.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=445-2171-1-ND
-John
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice job on that find. I'll most likely be using this one in the build.
fosser2 said:
Ok, I’ve been digging around recently and have been getting nowhere. From a bunch of emails and PM’s that took me a long time to write, I have gotten nothing back. So I am starting a new thread here.
I am in the process of finding info on the internal GPS module that the G-Pad is capable of having installed. I am willing to use my tablet as a demo to see if I can get it working! If it works, I will make a detailed thread on how to go about installing a GPS module into the G-Tablet. So speak up if you know your electronics please!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at the pictures, you reference U39. This looks like a BGA IC which is going to be a real PIA to solder, if possible at all. Normally, BGAs are placed on the solder paste with +/- 1mil tolerance using a pick and place machine, then baked with all of the other SMT parts with the board. And even then you get fallout from the BGA shifting during reflow and needs to be x-rayed for voids and shorts. i can only cringe at the prospect of doing this by hand, but i've seen it done before.
In our case, the board is already populated and the only way to solder on the BGA would be find a heat source with a isolated stream (read no generic heat guns) and a crap load of kapton tape to insulate and hold the other SMT parts around U39 down.
Furthermore, the GPS module IC also comes in a QFN package which is also a PIA to solder. Granted, its not a BGA and has no pins directly under the IC but it will take a skilled technician with a industrial grade soldering iron with temperature control.
I'm in no way trying to shoot this idea down. It certainly is do-able but it is a true project with no guaranteed outcome (parts soldered down correctly = GPS will work). I certainly would entertain trying this out and this gives me the perfect excuse to pry open my 2 wk old gtab. i have all of the necessary tools available at my company to do this properly and if its a matter of simply soldering down these parts to see what happens, i can do this.
let me do a little more research on the GPS module. hopefully, the viewsonic design engineers used a reference design straight from linx so we can figure out at least the GPS module schematics so we can understand what needs to be soldered where etc (and find out what U39 is - it says its a uP for micro processor but in our case it might be a serial NMEA converter).
stay tuned. from a practical risk vs reward scenario this isn't worth the time/effort. thankfully, i enjoy doing stuff like this and its the process that i enjoy, the outcome is simply icing on the cake.
sorry for the long post.
dzasta said:
Looking at the pictures, you reference U39. This looks like a BGA IC which is going to be a real PIA to solder, if possible at all. Normally, BGAs are placed on the solder paste with +/- 1mil tolerance using a pick and place machine, then baked with all of the other SMT parts with the board. And even then you get fallout from the BGA shifting during reflow and needs to be x-rayed for voids and shorts. i can only cringe at the prospect of doing this by hand, but i've seen it done before.
In our case, the board is already populated and the only way to solder on the BGA would be find a heat source with a isolated stream (read no generic heat guns) and a crap load of kapton tape to insulate and hold the other SMT parts around U39 down.
Furthermore, the GPS module IC also comes in a QFN package which is also a PIA to solder. Granted, its not a BGA and has no pins directly under the IC but it will take a skilled technician with a industrial grade soldering iron with temperature control.
I'm in no way trying to shoot this idea down. It certainly is do-able but it is a true project with no guaranteed outcome (parts soldered down correctly = GPS will work). I certainly would entertain trying this out and this gives me the perfect excuse to pry open my 2 wk old gtab. i have all of the necessary tools available at my company to do this properly and if its a matter of simply soldering down these parts to see what happens, i can do this.
let me do a little more research on the GPS module. hopefully, the viewsonic design engineers used a reference design straight from linx so we can figure out at least the GPS module schematics so we can understand what needs to be soldered where etc (and find out what U39 is - it says its a uP for micro processor but in our case it might be a serial NMEA converter).
stay tuned. from a practical risk vs reward scenario this isn't worth the time/effort. thankfully, i enjoy doing stuff like this and its the process that i enjoy, the outcome is simply icing on the cake.
sorry for the long post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dang, I guess I didn't think much about what the U39 part was. I sure hope that its not the NEMA serial converter. That would blow the whole project. Let me know if you find any schematics for this part. Either way, the project is still happening Let me know what else you find. Your help is appreciated.
fosser2 said:
Dang, I guess I didn't think much about what the U39 part was. I sure hope that its not the NEMA serial converter. That would blow the whole project. Either way, its still happening Let me know what else you find. Your help is appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure why U39 was referenced. Were the GPS serial port pins, TXA (pin 4) and RXA (pin 5), traced to that location? Or was the original author of that diagram guessing about U39?
The GPS module spits out NMEA sentences on TXA in a "serial" format. IMO, I don't know why there would be a need for any sort of hardware converter.
I am concerned about the software side though. By default the GPS module outputs NMEA commands at 9,600bps, 8 data bits, no parity, and 1 stop bit. If the micro isn't setup to accept the messages at that rate then we will have an issue. There is a command to change the serial port settings but I guess we can cross that bridge if we come to it.
-John
Edit: Here's a link to the GPS modules datasheet directly from the Linx website. http://www.linxtechnologies.com/resources/data-guides/rxm-gps-sg.pdf The link provided on Digikeys site doesn't seem to work.
Warranty voided!
So I cracked open my Gtab because I wanted to see if there was power on the voltage regulator pads of the GPS power section. And there is! U29 has 4.94vdc on it's input pin and U22 has 3.29vdc. What's interesting is that these voltages are present even when the tablet is powered off.
U22 is the power supply that is tied to the GPS's backup battery supply pin. For U22 to always have power makes sense, it's providing the power that the GPS needs in order to keep it's memory and RTC going. This allows for faster Time to First Fix, according to the datasheet.
But U29 provides the main VCC supply voltage to the module on pin 12. If it's always on, then the module will always be powered up. I wonder what that will do to battery life. The module is designed to operate automatically in different power saving modes so the difference in battery life may be negligible.
-John
Edit: Next, I want to figure out what capacitors are needed for the regulators.
twistedrotors said:
Warranty voided!
So I cracked open my Gtab because I wanted to see if there was power on the voltage regulator pads of the GPS power section. And there is! U29 has 4.94vdc on it's input pin and U22 has 3.29vdc. What's interesting is that these voltages are present even when the tablet is powered off.
U22 is the power supply that is tied to the GPS's backup battery supply pin. For U22 to always have power makes sense, it's providing the power that the GPS needs in order to keep it's memory and RTC going. This allows for faster Time to First Fix, according to the datasheet.
But U29 provides the main VCC supply voltage to the module on pin 12. If it's always on, then the module will always be powered up. I wonder what that will do to battery life. The module is designed to operate automatically in different power saving modes so the difference in battery life may be negligible.
-John
Edit: Next, I want to figure out what capacitors are needed for the regulators.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy crap! this is some serious progress. I was not expecting this right now I'm really happy that there is power right beneath the gps but the thing that I am concerned about I guess is, is it worthwhile to try to rebuild the power supply circuit, or just run 3.3v from the mini PCI e. I guess I'm down for rebuilding the circuit because its the way it was initially intended to work.
fosser2 said:
Currently I'm like 85% sure that the GPS support is built directly into the software. I have been directly talking to roebeet. He said that in his newest firmware "brilliant corners" that he deleted a script that checked to see if there was a gps chip installed and then enabled/disabled it accordingly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to the TnT v1.1 kernel patch file from Viewsonic, enabling and disabling the GPS module (the comment in the driver mentions it is for a "MALATA_SMBA1102") is all that the kernel driver does. No code to anything beyond that. Are there any data lines connected from the GPS and where do they go on the gTablet board. Is it connected to an internal SDIO bus?--You can get GPS data that way.
they claim the snapdragon version of the note 20 ultra has FM radio, but NextRadio is dead and doesn't want to work on the phone even tho it comes preinstalled bloatware. Ive tried versions 3.xx/4.xx/5.xx ( i get frozen screen)/ and 6.xx, the closest i can get is one of the first builds of version 6 will let me get around the no network error or not supported screen but shows nothing tuner related,almost like there is no FM hardware enabled. I am using the samsung/akg provided usb wired headset and a cheap amazon throw away set just to be sure.
Has anyone gotten the FM tuner to work on this device?
Same on my note , no FM radio .
Sent from my Samsung SM-N960U1 using XDA Labs
It needs more than just the radio to make it work. The other stuff needed has not been present since Samsung(OEM's in general) moved away from headphone jacks. Also this requires testing as well as licensing(pay Qualcomm for licensing, and then governmental body for testing).
Tidbits said:
It needs more than just the radio to make it work. The other stuff needed has not been present since Samsung(OEM's in general) moved away from headphone jacks. Also this requires testing as well as licensing(pay Qualcomm for licensing, and then governmental body for testing).
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ive been out of the loop with this stuff for awhile, did Samsung disable the FM (software sided?) or did Qualcomm (hardware sided?)? Im kinda curious if a new developed app could get it to work. or is there a way to see what hardware is present or disabled?
outlawbiker said:
ive been out of the loop with this stuff for awhile, did Samsung disable the FM (software sided?) or did Qualcomm (hardware sided?)? Im kinda curious if a new developed app could get it to work. or is there a way to see what hardware is present or disabled?
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It's Samsung and hardware. If you don't connect the radio then it'll never work. Doesn't matter if the radio is within the chip. You also need an antenna which isn't present internally. Also in the US there is not Note 20 with testing done for the fm radio.
It's safe to assume Samsung didn't pay licensing, didn't connect the com for the radio with an antenna component connected, and didn't have FCC test the feature.
This is driving me nuts. I researched before this Note 20 Ultra 512GB came out and read that it will have the FM radio but only in the Snapdragon version which is what I have here in the US. I did a trade in of my Note 8 which worked fine with the FM radio. I even bought an adapter for the charge port for the wired headphones. Now I've lost the Note 8 with radio functionality to a trade in. I'm so mad. I used the radio to tune in at conventions to a local unused station that the convention used so I can listen without distraction and record the talks with voice recorder for later listening, it recorded the radio station directly. This was very important to me. Someone from SAMSUNG chat help said there is no FM chip in the US models. The NextRadio app says can't access the FM function and to tell my carrier I want access to it.
What is the deal? Does it have FM or not? If so, does Verizon need to activate it? I just can't seem to find a definitive answer and cannot find a code that works to find the secret menu for this phone via the phone app. Please someone help.
pinkBEAT said:
This is driving me nuts. I researched before this Note 20 Ultra 512GB came out and read that it will have the FM radio but only in the Snapdragon version which is what I have here in the US. I did a trade in of my Note 8 which worked fine with the FM radio. I even bought an adapter for the charge port for the wired headphones. Now I've lost the Note 8 with radio functionality to a trade in. I'm so mad. I used the radio to tune in at conventions to a local unused station that the convention used so I can listen without distraction and record the talks with voice recorder for later listening, it recorded the radio station directly. This was very important to me. Someone from SAMSUNG chat help said there is no FM chip in the US models. The NextRadio app says can't access the FM function and to tell my carrier I want access to it.
What is the deal? Does it have FM or not? If so, does Verizon need to activate it? I just can't seem to find a definitive answer and cannot find a code that works to find the secret menu for this phone via the phone app. Please someone help.
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Sorry man, it doesn't look like it is the case. I went through this with my unlocked Note 10+. I was even hoping that the T-Mobile version would have FM because the previous CEO made it a mandate for phones on the T-Mobile network but they must have quietly let that one go once the headphone jack was gone. My S10+ has a connected FM Radio but not my A71 5g.
Thanks for answering. I just wanted to be sure as I don't always trust support people. Half the time, by the time I reluctanly call or chat support for anything it's because I just can't find the answer and it's something beyond what these "tech support" people have scripted for them. They just wind up frustrating me more.
After posting this I tested the adapter for the headphones in my mother's Note 8 with NextRadio. No sound with NextRadio. Only when plugged directly in to the 3.5mm jack. So, even if there was FM on the Note 20 Ultra, the charging port headphone adapter theory won't work.
Tempted to write the FCC to get this mandatory but will probably be a waste of time. I'll just get an mp3 player with FM radio that will record from the radio and have to carry another device around on those occasions (at least a clipon or armband). Most of the ones on Amazon seem to be Chinese made and I am concerned about the quality and reliability. We will see.
Thanks again.
Im looking to get a new head unit for my car (Corsa D 1.2 2009), and was planning on getting the Teyes CC3. I then found out through this forum and elsewhere that its essentially just being resold? I then found other units like the Mekede M6 Pro, etc. Im not sure which one to get, does anyone have any suggestions? Or information that can help me decide between all of the UIS7862 out there?
Im leaning towards the Teyes even if it is slightly more expensive, as ive heard good things about their support and firmware updates.
But ive seen units for £180 (6+128gb) with better spec than the teyes at £250 (3+32gb)!
I mainly want good audio (so a good DSP and AMP chip), and i want polished looking software and not having to deal with the android stock menus as much.
For someone in the UK, what are peoples suggestions?
Thanks
Gershy13
Mekede M6 Pro (Youtube, another UK guy like you). Personally I would never buy a T'eyes. Too much closed source and paid software.
surfer63 said:
Mekede M6 Pro (Youtube, another UK guy like you). Personally I would never buy a T'eyes. Too much closed source and paid software.
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Thanks,
Would you be able to tell me what the main differences between going with teyes and their closed apps (some examples of why theyre worse) compared to something that isnt locked down? Like mekede or anything else.
Another one i found is OSSURET? I was thinking of the S8
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004870713836.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.27a42034V35IGh&algo_pvid=bd602265-4596-42b3-a13b-f1fa8a31ac3c&algo_exp_id=bd602265-4596-42b3-a13b-f1fa8a31ac3c-2&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000030828861416%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21GBP%21168.28%2184.14%21%21%21%21%21%400b0a187b16722620012128392e6e8f%2112000030828861416%21sea&curPageLogUid=f8YkC5oOv6ja
It seems to have a slightly higher clocked processor too. And for the same price as the mekede i can get maxed storage and ram. Thoughts?
Are you planning to listen to FM radio? If you are I advise you to stay away from any FYT based head unit. If not go ahead.
Gaugamela said:
Are you planning to listen to FM radio? If you are I advise you to stay away from any FYT based head unit. If not go ahead.
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Curious as to why? But no never planning on using the radio. (Spotify only)
AF function (changing frequency of radio station when signal gets too weak to a stronger signal) doesn't work on FYT head-units. If you're in a country that doesn't use DAB this should be a deal breaker.
Wish I knew that before ordering mine, but I didn't even know it was an FYT head unit. xD
Also be aware that the Bluetooth pairing functionality is quite unintuitive to work if you plan to share data via bluetooth from your smartphone. It does not connect automatically so you need to connect manually every time.
Gaugamela said:
AF function (changing frequency of radio station when signal gets too weak to a stronger signal) doesn't work on FYT head-units. If you're in a country that doesn't use DAB this should be a deal breaker.
Wish I knew that before ordering mine, but I didn't even know it was an FYT head unit. xD
Also be aware that the Bluetooth pairing functionality is quite unintuitive to work if you plan to share data via bluetooth from your smartphone. It does not connect automatically so you need to connect manually every time.
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Ahh okay thanks. That's fine I don't mind using WiFi for internet sharing. Or even usb if it's supported.
And yeah no plans to use the radio so we're good.
Gaugamela said:
AF function (changing frequency of radio station when signal gets too weak to a stronger signal) doesn't work on FYT head-units. If you're in a country that doesn't use DAB this should be a deal breaker.
Wish I knew that before ordering mine, but I didn't even know it was an FYT head unit. xD
Also be aware that the Bluetooth pairing functionality is quite unintuitive to work if you plan to share data via bluetooth from your smartphone. It does not connect automatically so you need to connect manually every time.
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are you sure about that, have you tried https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...nd-sc9853i-fyt-devices.4387965/#post-86251871
Also, the BLuetooth on these units, comparatively, is very good, with proper BLE support via dual Bluetooth to support things like radar detectors (Valentine One.)
marchnz said:
are you sure about that, have you tried https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...nd-sc9853i-fyt-devices.4387965/#post-86251871
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Yes, I am sure. Go over the thread and Kotix explains it why he can't fix AF.
He made a work around for an user to easily switch between saved frequencies of the same radio station. But this is manual switching that an user needs to do by himself, not automated. This is not optimal when you're driving.
Gaugamela said:
Also be aware that the Bluetooth pairing functionality is quite unintuitive to work if you plan to share data via bluetooth from your smartphone. It does not connect automatically so you need to connect manually every time.
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My Bluetooth connects immediately every time I enter the car.
I also find FM radio to be excellent using NavRadio+
AF isn't a deal breaker for me. I only have 1 station that jumps between frequencies occasionally (BBC Radio 2) and Kotix workaround is intuitive and easy to use.
The fact that it doesn't affect doesn't mean the issue isn't there.
Bluetooth works well. Bluetooth 2 doesn't. There's the simple work around of automating an wifi hot spot when your phone connects to Bluetooth.
It's true the NavRadio+ is a big improvement but the AF doesn't work at all.
My bluetooth always connects to phone 1 but if you have phone 2 it will not link to it, you have to pair it manually even if it has been conected previously. That's a shame.
Battoussai said:
It's true the NavRadio+ is a big improvement but the AF doesn't work at all.
My bluetooth always connects to phone 1 but if you have phone 2 it will not link to it, you have to pair it manually even if it has been conected previously. That's a shame.
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Same here - second phone never connects automatically. Really annoys me because we are two daily users of the car :/
Yeah, I know your pain lol. I suppose the manufacter would need to invest on a better bluetooth chip for two phones to work. I come from a Pioneer with bluetooth from 2008 and it already allowed to pair 2 distint phones at the SAME time!!! And it still works.
Battoussai said:
My bluetooth always connects to phone 1 but if you have phone 2 it will not link to it, you have to pair it manually even if it has been conected previously. That's a shame.
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A recent thread addressed this and a reseller replied with a config.txt that seemingly results in the Bluetooth trying the last phone used and failing that trying the next phone in the list.
Does Bluetooth only reconnect to the last device used?
My unit allowed me to pair multiple phones (my wife and daughter also drive) but the Bluetooth system would only reconnect to the last phone used. So if I drove the car last, and then my wife drives, it won't connect to her phone without manually...
forum.xda-developers.com
I can see a few lines that might be relevant but I've no idea what the secret sauce is to change the behaviour.
Backup your current config.txt and give a few of them a try if you're confident.
Lines I can see that "might" relate to Bluetooth pairing...
ro.build.go_lasttop=true
sys.fyt.bluetooth_show_voice=true
persist.btpair.ssp=1
persist.fyt.enablebtvoice=true
persist.btautoconnect.count=3
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Hum... thats interesting stuff. Thanks. I'll do a little more digging and give it a try if I discard the chance of bricking something.
This thread has gone completely off track