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Is it just me or are the folks here a little catty with the "wooters"? You'd think we don't know how to operate technology. Did I spell all that correctly? But seriously, thanks to the good folks trying to help. I just don't like the pompous comments like the newcomers can't operate a tablet and some software. Peace.
ArkansasRazorbacks said:
Is it just me or are the folks here a little catty with the "wooters"? You'd think we don't know how to operate technology. Did I spell all that correctly? But seriously, thanks to the good folks trying to help. I just don't like the pompous comments like the newcomers can't operate a tablet and some software. Peace.
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Click to collapse
Hi,
I think that it was discovered fairly recently that there are some serious potential incompatibilities in the latest unofficial rom (3991), and the devs, and others have had their hands full trying to help people. I don't know firsthand, but I imagine between this forum, the irc channel, and PMs, they must helped a ton of people.
Then the woot deal happened this week, and everybody probably worried about multiples of that, so I think the posts/threads about "be careful", were just proactive to try to help users avoid problems.
JMHO.
Jim
I'm a "Wooter" and came over here to get info on ROM/firmware builds for the device. I'm a current unhacked Archos 70 owner, and have had Samsung Captivate and HTC Evo 4G as well.
I haven't really seen _much_ condescension from this community on the Woot influx. Just some tongue-in-cheek "there goes the neighborhood" and "here come the n00bs" stuff.
I'm ready to admit that I am a n00b with the Viewsonic device, but welcome any help and "ROMs for Dummies" tutorials from this community.
My device should be here on Tuesday, so I hope to see a built and optimized 2.3 firmware package by Wednesday. :-D
jimcpl said:
Hi,
I think that it was discovered fairly recently that there are some serious potential incompatibilities in the latest unofficial rom (3991), and the devs, and others have had their hands full trying to help people. I don't know firsthand, but I imagine between this forum, the irc channel, and PMs, they must helped a ton of people.
Then the woot deal happened this week, and everybody probably worried about multiples of that, so I think the posts/threads about "be careful", were just proactive to try to help users avoid problems.
JMHO.
Jim
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That may be somewhat true but when I first bought my GTab and I got it from Office Depot and came to this thread I experienced the same unfriendly treatment. Most are just trying to learn and better GTab. Not here for confrontation, argument or unnecessary challenge.
To the original poster, I get what you are saying and don't feel singled out because you are Woot. Some here don't make newcomers feel welcome. Why I don't know. After awhile (and it should not exist at all) it tapers off, hopefully for you more sooner than later. Enjoy your GTab.
I'm a wooter, too. My woot gtab should arrive tomorrow. That said, you have to admit that the woot deal is probably the single factor that brought/will bring a significant higher people to this site. And please understand that many of us have spent years dealing with the non-tech savy. We know how the typical non-tech savy behave.
What I've generally seen so far is a lot of "please read the FAQ's" and "please use search" and "please read the instructions thoroughly when modding". I've also done a few tongue in cheek comments, but if anything else I'm not being condescending -- if anything else I'm a little nervous at the amount of users that might be coming. Everyone was a n00b once.
When new users come in small dribs and drabs, I think the forum has been able to handle it. But if there are potentially hundreds of new users in the next week, it's going to be complete madness.
I've actually re-written ALL my main posts, with Woot users in mind. If anything else, the Wooters have gotten me off my sorry arse and gotten me to really look at my instructions and go through them with a fine-tooth comb to ensure that stuff is clear.
One of the other reasons for my own temporary push of posts is because it's EOM and I may have a smaller footprint this week (work stuff). So I'm spouting my concerns now before my visibility is lessened.
roebeet said:
What I've generally seen so far is a lot of "please read the FAQ's" and "please use search" and "please read the instructions thoroughly when modding". I've also done a few tongue in cheek comments, but if anything else I'm not being condescending -- if anything else I'm a little nervous at the amount of users that might be coming. Everyone was a n00b once.
When new users come in small dribs and drabs, I think the forum has been able to handle it. But if there are potentially hundreds of new users in the next week, it's going to be complete madness.
I've actually re-written ALL my main posts, with Woot users in mind. If anything else, the Wooters have gotten me off my sorry arse and gotten me to really look at my instructions and go through them with a fine-tooth comb to ensure that stuff is clear.
One of the other reasons for my own temporary push of posts is because it's EOM and I may have a smaller footprint this week (work stuff). So I'm spouting my concerns now before my visibility is lessened.
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Thanks, Roebeet and I am laughing. It is always rough when you are starting out with new equipment even if it is functioning properly. Throw unstable into the mix and you will have tens of thousands trying to figure out stability real fast.
Also, I cruised Amazon's tabs yesterday and they have GTab as number one best selling on their site. The buyer's reviews all point to XDA and immediately modding your tab. I'm not kidding. This tab was a sleeper because most tech mags--cnet, pc mag, pc world, etc. gave it bad reviews. However, when people got their hands on one (from at a store, friend, peer, colleague, family member or such) it was a different story. The general public is now starting to respond favorably to GTab. You may get even more traffic.
I like your spirit though, you are good people. Look at this community as the future "tech forum facebook" 500 million and counting... Hey it is a blessing when you have multiple mainstream sites throwing traffic your way. You don't have to work at SEO rankings. Please translate that to some of the other people who are here already that make newcomers feel unwelcome. The term wooters is not nice. What happened to "new G Tab owners"? Some egos here need to be minimized on the task bar or forced close. -Peace, mostly this is a good site offering a wealth of information.
My $.02 ..
the people who have been on here, and owned a gtab for a while are the people who are more apt to purchase bleeding-edge gadgets, and are generally more savy and aware of potential problems..
Some may be viewing the "wooters" as uninformed consumers looking for the best deal ..
yeah, i realize this is a huge generalization but i imagine alot of people are thinking the same thing..
so i say "Welcome wooters !" (just don't ask a question thats been answered 38 times) hehe
edirector said:
Thanks, Roebeet and I am laughing. It is always rough when you are starting out with new equipment even if it is functioning properly. Throw unstable into the mix and you will have tens of thousands trying to figure out stability real fast.
Also, I cruised Amazon's tabs yesterday and they have GTab as number one best selling on their site. The buyer's reviews all point to XDA and immediately modding your tab. I'm not kidding. This tab was a sleeper because most tech mags--cnet, pc mag, pc world, etc. gave it bad reviews. However, when people got their hands on one (from at a store, friend, peer, colleague, family member or such) it was a different story. The general public is now starting to respond favorably to GTab. You may get even more traffic.
I like your spirit though, you are good people. Look at this community as the future "tech forum facebook" 500 million and counting... Hey it is a blessing when you have multiple mainstream sites throwing traffic your way. You don't have to work at SEO rankings. Please translate that to some of the other people who are here already that make newcomers feel unwelcome. The term wooters is not nice. What happened to "new G Tab owners"? Some egos here need to be minimized on the task bar or forced close. -Peace, mostly this is a good site offering a wealth of information.
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I was a Wooter long before I joined XDA - don't worry, it's an acceptable term and we wear it with pride.
Btw, I have NEVER managed to snag a Bandolier of Carrots - always a bridesmaid, never a bride.....
ArkansasRazorbacks said:
Is it just me or are the folks here a little catty with the "wooters"? You'd think we don't know how to operate technology. Did I spell all that correctly? But seriously, thanks to the good folks trying to help. I just don't like the pompous comments like the newcomers can't operate a tablet and some software. Peace.
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I know this is off topic but couldn't help and notice you're a Razorbacks fan. Good to see another Arkansas guy here on the forums. Where are you located? I'm in Conway right now attending UCA. I'm also another wooter waiting for his G-Tablet!
Maybe us Wooters could be put to use. I'd be glad to donate some time to work on a wiki, for example, although I've never actually put one together. Surely there is something that new board members could do.
Sorry for the long post but I must echo the sentiments of others. It is not the intent of most to make new members feel unwelcome, as I can remember when I first got the Gtabs for my wife and myself after finding the community support of XDA. Even in the smaller Gtab/XDA community, members had problems and needed to be helped, many would not use the search function and just ask repeatedly about issues that had already been addressed and resolved. Now that Android tablets are coming to light with the heavily advertised Xoom, the fear is simply that thanks to the overwhelming response to WOOT the common questions will appear again and again as our great forums expand to receive more and more new members. I'm sure that there is no animosity or malice intended, just an attempt to make new members aware of possible pitfalls and resolutions. More users will make this forum and the Gtab better and better.
Welcome to all
I don't think the majority of the users are treating Wooters as idiots, just trying to make their Gtab experience a good one. R emember that when most of us started adding ROMs there weren't several stock builds and several dozen flavors of ROMs to choose from. Also the users that experienced severe interaction problems were bleeding edge guys who expected issues and were willing to work through them. Based on many of the new owners questions, many are expecting to load a new ROM and have an ipad killer. As you read the rooting instructions don't skip the " Risk" section.
Its not just going to be the wooters. Circut City and Tiger Direct selling it for $299. there will be alot of wooters, Tigers and Circiters I guess. This forum is going to explode soon with folks. I dont think people are condesending but I think alot of folks are nerveous about the amount of people coming in here by next weekend.
Here's the biggest drawback I see.
1.) Influx of lazy forum users who post a question without searching. Those new threads go unanswered or with more knowledgeable members say "Use the search". Now, non-lazy forum users come in, with their newly purchased GTab, hit the search, and they end up with 3 pages of useless threads as listed before.
2.) The knowledgeable members need to work on concentrating the info into ONE FAQ or Wiki style. Right now, the number of stuck threads is getting a tad ridiculous. When there are 12 stuck threads that say "READ FIRST", it falls into the same category as the saying "If everything is high priority, nothing is".
I almost wish we could lock the ROMs from being downloaded, until someone has READ 10 threads (as opposed to being able to post in the dev section prior to posting 10 times).
In saying all that, I read a lot before I bought my tab, I read a few threads multiple times AFTER I bought my tab, to make sure I was doing it right. I just wish others had the same patience and diligence.
vaccdroid said:
Its not just going to be the wooters. Circut City and Tiger Direct selling it for $299. there will be alot of wooters, Tigers and Circiters I guess. This forum is going to explode soon with folks. I dont think people are condesending but I think alot of folks are nerveous about the amount of people coming in here by next weekend.
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Nervous? I'm terrified.
I've been on the Woot! GTAB discussion thread, heavily. Long before I chimed in, XDA was mentioned repeatedly over there.
h3llphyre said:
Here's the biggest drawback I see.
1.) Influx of lazy forum users who post a question without searching. Those new threads go unanswered or with more knowledgeable members say "Use the search". Now, non-lazy forum users come in, with their newly purchased GTab, hit the search, and they end up with 3 pages of useless threads as listed before.
2.) The knowledgeable members need to work on concentrating the info into ONE FAQ or Wiki style. Right now, the number of stuck threads is getting a tad ridiculous. When there are 12 stuck threads that say "READ FIRST", it falls into the same category as the saying "If everything is high priority, nothing is".
I almost wish we could lock the ROMs from being downloaded, until someone has READ 10 threads (as opposed to being able to post in the dev section prior to posting 10 times).
In saying all that, I read a lot before I bought my tab, I read a few threads multiple times AFTER I bought my tab, to make sure I was doing it right. I just wish others had the same patience and diligence.
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When I re-wrote my ROM posts, I moved the downloads nearer to the bottom, on purpose, with the hopes that new users would read through the post first. Probably unlikely, but worth a shot.
Btw, there's already a request for a Wiki or main FAQ section, via the moderator thread in General (I chimed in, as well). But I don't get the feeling that it's going to happen, at least not yet.
roebeet said:
Nervous? I'm terrified.
I've been on the Woot! GTAB discussion thread, heavily. Long before I chimed in, XDA was mentioned repeatedly over there.
When I re-wrote my ROM posts, I moved the downloads nearer to the bottom, on purpose, with the hopes that new users would read through the post first. Probably unlikely, but worth a shot.
Btw, there's already a request for a Wiki or main FAQ section, via the moderator thread in General (I chimed in, as well). But I don't get the feeling that it's going to happen, at least not yet.
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Lol, I was one of those answering questions and pushing people sitting on the fense over into our yard.
Great device- Great people here Talked work into picking up 9 for the techs .
Selling my personal one and picking up a xoom (got a work one comming now )
I have seen the n00b bashing on this forum before... Sometimes I sympathise with both sides though....
I have seen where the whole first page is 75% I have bricked my tablet HELP!!! and then someone else posts same thing again....
Other times I have seen a single Help post only to be met with USE THE SEARCH N00b!!!... When the issue actually wasn't something answered completely before..
SO I think we all need to take a chill pill (except Roebeet, He is totally exempt and allowed to throw a fit if he wants he he) And just deal with answering the same question 5k times . The returns from it should be pretty good. The larger the community the more developers etc we will also inherit
I am a fellow wooter and am looking forward to getting my G tablet tomorrow. I was pretty intent on doing a mod but with recent posts I am re considering that decision. I just hope that Honeycomb is released for the device eventually, although I will not hold my breath.
Roebeet, I think you should look at this as an opportunity. I have not even received my tablet yet but I have already donated $5 to you. There are over 10,000 new owners who could all use your advice and your expertice. If they all do the same you could have a nice side career. I hope I will never have to bother you for any assitance. I think I will stay stock for a while and then maybe I will try a ROM. I am not a total newb, I did manage to successfully root my Droid and install Gingerbread, but I am always squeamish about modding devices. You can fail a heck of lot easier than you can succeed. But if I do ever need help I think that you are the guy!
Think I am more on the fence about modding also due to the low cost of thbis tablet. If you do something to it you cant return it for a new one at woot. Woot doesnt really do returns easy and if they do take it back you get your money back not a new one. then if you want another you will have to get lucky looking for another deal ( like at Tiger Direct this weekend) or buy one for $400. For me thats too risky to just play around with it.
ALso as for honeycomb on here. Probally a better chance that it will happen considering that there are 10-15 thousand more G Tablet owners now then there were last week. They dont support devices for long if they dont sell but this G tablet is now a big seller. * Woot-Circut Ciity-Tiger Direct etc).
aaron19953 said:
My $.02 ..
the people who have been on here, and owned a gtab for a while are the people who are more apt to purchase bleeding-edge gadgets, and are generally more savy and aware of potential problems..
Some may be viewing the "wooters" as uninformed consumers looking for the best deal ..
yeah, i realize this is a huge generalization but i imagine alot of people are thinking the same thing..
so i say "Welcome wooters !" (just don't ask a question thats been answered 38 times) hehe
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Well I think those who might feel that way, need to do a reality check. It is really is hard being a noob and everyone starts out as one.
Yes, I am a deal hunter but hardly an uninformed consumer. Hopefully people are aware of what they are getting themselves in for, but true there will be some who have no clue.
From what I have seen/read, the seniors and mods have been good and fair, but like other blogs, the search sucks and people get scared/frustrated so patience and education will be required. It's tough reading a zillion posts to find an answer.
Just my two cents.
FYI I've been a software developer for 25+ years and was literally doing ROMs (as in burning images to silicon) before the idea of smart phones or tablets existed. I worked at a small company named "Poqet Computer" (hence the poqeteer alias), the first pocket sized PC. Unfortunately it was way before its time and like other startups... Died. Also unfortunately that has very little to do with this piece of hardware... So please be kind to this and all other noobs.
- Lance.
I wrote about it here: LINK
Does anyone know more about the background - from the twitter account it seems like just a general run-down and a disappointing community.
Other developers on here feel the same?
I'd love to get comments from some of the developers on here, if that is the case.
I'm not a developer but did read this already on a posting at Google+.
But you are right, moving into that direction would be very bad.
Some people think they can be rude because they stay anonymous.
Its something that happens more and more these days on the internet.
I realize it's impossible - there are 12 year olds who probably run rampant.
Seems like there is SOMETHING that can be done.
I'm as Pro-Android as they come. But at times it feels like starting a relationship with a beautiful boy/girl only to find they come with a sack load of emotional baggage.
Here's my take on it: http://andgamesdevblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/android-culture-its-own-worst-enemy.html
I am far from giving up (thick skinned) but there is a real troll culture growing and needs to be stomped out. Anonymity has it's uses but, as with everything else, has its drawbacks. What we need is troll hunters!
Paul
(aka Strangemoo)
I have seen that there are some stupid comments on the market... But not so extreme as to take down your app...
Some users is just plain stupid... I'm from Denmark, so a lot of the comments are in danish... But that devs are many times foreign and really don't look or understand the comments... But a lot of them complain about pathetic things like no app 2 sd or that some function suddenly's gone instead of just writing the dev an email about the issue and giving the app the respect it deserves... 1/5 rating is a lot of the times not justified...
Just my 2-cents...
I'm sorry but this is a silly and immature move by the developer. Receiving negative feedback, dealing with trolls and idiotic users that don't understand technology are fundamental assumptions of the internet, just like not giving out your passwords or helping Nigerian princes get their money out of Africa.
I loved ShootMe and used it for our screenshots, but I don't have a lot of empathy for people that empower others to control how they feel.
Wrote about this a few weeks back: http://www.androidstatic.com/what-shootme-removed-from-the-android-market
I work in IT support and one of the things I have to support is phones. It blows my mind how many 10-12 year old kids have nicer phones than I do because their rich mommy and daddys think their precious little angels needs the latest and greatest smart phones. I went over to a client's office a couple of months ago and he had 3 brand new Droid 2s for his kids, ranging from 10-14.
Point of all this?
In this day and age, there are so many rude little kids with nice phones all over these forums, its amazing to me anyone sticks around. Im over 40 and was raised in a different time than these self entitled children I see around here that want everything now, for free and want you to do it for them.
I cant blame the guy for leaving. A lot of times I wish I could go live on an island somewhere where I didnt have to deal with people because most of them suck.
s15274n said:
I wrote about it here: LINK
Does anyone know more about the background - from the twitter account it seems like just a general run-down and a disappointing community.
Other developers on here feel the same?
I'd love to get comments from some of the developers on here, if that is the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a developer, but I was a ShootMe user on my EVO 4G. When it received the upgrade to Gingerbread, the app stopped working. The developer never replied to my email and from reading comments on Market didn't reply to anyone.
He did finally released a new version of ShootMe, but you had to have a computer to use it. Also everytime your reboot your phone, you had to sync everytime with your computer.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Welcome to the "masses".
Want a better experience? Go smaller. Dev for Windows Phone, or Web OS, or RIM.
Once something becomes part of the main stream, you'll see the d-bags start rolling in. Even something like xda can be tarnished once it "gets too big". There is hardly a day that goes by where I don't read a thread here that doesn't make me shake my head. This used to be a highly technical forum, back when every devices was htc and running windows mobile.
The only thing that can really be done, is to work with a smaller, more appreciative community. I doubt you would get very many jerk off comments from a Windows Phone user, they are happy to get whatever they can.
All very good points. I wish I had put a little into my thoughts before typing that up - dev's need to be tougher AND respond to people.
s15274n said:
All very good points. I wish I had put a little into my thoughts before typing that up - dev's need to be tougher AND respond to people.
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Click to collapse
As a android developer IMHO the android community is as bad as they come. Xda for example used to be a place of collaboration. Currently its a place where maybe .1% do dev, .9% appreciate the development and try to help, 99% ether complain or say nothing at all. Whether the development is for free or profite(which I won't evev get into here) how is a developer supposed to work off of that? Users would rather right a comment blasting a developer who has literally spent days of his life on some product without even attempting to resolve the issue themselves.
I'm not saying some complaints are not warranted, just saying flip the coin around and its not so hard to understand the developers standpoint.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
There is no denying that there is frustration on both sides. This frustration seems to stem from expectation, communication and control.
The developer expects their customers to be civil.
The users expects the developers to devote anything between some to all of their resources/free time building/making their products better.
Both are unreasonable expectations if you think about it.
Civility can only be maintained in a mediated environment - the Android Market seems only concerned about brand and copyright issues. Google seems to think that it's ok to put its developer behind chicken-wire with lights in their eyes whilst their customers are free to hurl beer bottles at them. Dealing with anony-trolls is time consuming and offputting.
Developers range from teenagers with spare time on their hands up to multi-million dollar development studios. I, myself, am a father of three, I work a full week (we've got to eat!) and I code when time permits. Even though I respond to every request put to my apps, if you think that I'm going to compromise the balance of other areas of my life to put in a bug fix - think again. Sure, some of the more effluent businesses can throw more resources into a project, but just bare in mind that most of us are just people and not doormats. Respect and encouragement is all it takes to make the market a happy place. Flaming just ruins things for all (on both sides).
Communication between devs and end users is and most likely always will be a bit of a sticking point. The fact that everyone has their own opinions, likes, dislikes kind of makes it obvious that there will never be an app with 100% 5 stars. Even the most popular apps on the market have ratings across the board. Though, admittedly, some of the low grades may be down to trolling - but some of them will be genuine. Communication takes time. From a user, it may take a couple of minutes out of their day. For the dev, they may have hundreds a day to deal with. This takes them away from the development that the mail is probably asking for!
A user doesn't, and should never have control over the developer. They should, however, be able to request, beg, plead *nicely*. If they get frustrated then they should remember the phrase 'you get what you pay for'. The developer doesn't get any money when you bought your phone - so don't think they have any obligation to give you something for nothing. If it's a paid app, then the developer is saying 'yes, I'll support it.' That's fair sport.
The developer should have some control over their customers in the sense that a shopkeeper can choose who they let in their shops. Unfortunately they have none. They can't even moderate the comments on the market. I've had a 'GAY - Pointless, uninstall' (his words, not mine) on a free app downloaded 12,000 times and has a 4* rating. I can't do anything about it. It always appears when people go to the page. This individual has hurt my app and me without provocation. I didn't ask anything from them. Fortunately, the following message pointed out that the 'Pointless' user was an idiot (thanks XZombie), hopefully it will negate some of the damage. We're completely at the mercy of the masses, and being a relatively new dev, it's a scary place to be!
It's a shame that the most influential party in all of this is hiding behind a wall of silence.
If you're interested - I'm keeping a track of my experience of Android development. The link is in my earlier post.
Paul
Strangemoo
Paul, I do agree with you to a point. But I'm not sure if I like about developers editing comments. But I do see what you mean about people leaving dumb comments for an app that does work.
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D using Tapatalk
Katt,
I don't suggest developers could edit comments - that would make the process equally pointless, as devs can put all of the 'nice' things they want in the description anyway. Sorry if I implied otherwise.
Devs should be able to either remove, request for removal or even block the rogue elements. At present, we have to just live with the insults with no way to disprove their claims. Even a 'troll flag' would be an improvement - to show other users that the dev disagrees with the comment.
All accountability is on the devs whereas trolls can run freely.
Do any other devs out there agree with me on this? Others may have had a much more dealings with such than I have.
Cheers,
Paul
IMO if google was smart they would allow for a limited ammount(% of total) of "submissions" of there comments to a third party(google). If they are found outlandish they can be removed.
My 2 cents lol. I can say as a dev of a few apps on the market I have gotten rediculous comments n 1 stars b4. I mean if they are justified that's a different thing entirely. But my 1 stars are disproportionally higher then the trend of the others. Which proves one thing...
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
This is an honestly great thread. Good initiative to |OP|
Taking down an app just because of a few nasty comments is just
childish and quite frankly pathetic.
Seems that developer has chucked his toys out the pram, if he does
decide to release it again who is going to trust such a developer?
I know I wouldn't use the app again, seeing as he's stuck 2 fingers up
to loyal users and the whole android community all because of a small
minority of people.
The whole thing stinks of the guy thinking he is above any kind of bad
feedback, obviously a developer that doesn't listen to the users of his
app and a developer that turns his back at the drop of a hat.
I'm sure he will be missed... Not
Ps. there are better screenshot apps out there
I agree with your comment. Though I am not a dev. I have experience working in the retail end of software. This is a I want it now society, folks forget that they got this software/app for free and as soon as they have a little issue they fly off the deep end cussing out the maker/distribitor of the product. Anyhow like you said you get what you pay for.LIke in my IT course in school my book said "check the dummy behind the keyboard" anyhow thanks for the great apps i use the time flies app.
If a dev dropped his customers because of a couple of snide comments then, yeah, I'd agree with you.
But was that the case for ShootMe?
Before we start flinging hooks around here, wouldn't it be more productive to actually find out what happened first.
I may be proven wrong here, but the guy must've been given some serious grief to take such a newsworthy action.
In fact, that's not been mentioned - it could be media storming. Drum up enough publicity and come back blazing. Only time will tell on that one.
At the end of the day, it's his property. And if he makes a lot of people unhappy that's his prerogative. The reason he's giving though are indeed a real issue the community needs to address.
The plot thickens.
(Glad you like Times Flies! You're most welcome)
Paul
I've noticed that the flavor of a community will vary a lot by device. The Captivate community seems to be generally good and helpful for the most part, but I've heard horror stories of ungratefulness and rudeness about communities around other devices. It may be the same sort of thing with different varieties of apps. If people feel like an app performs a function they deserve outright, they may be less inclined to courtesy and more inclined to selfish expectation.
First of all, this is strictly an observation and will likely be locked and/or deleted by a mod (my money is on orb3000) but I have been a member of the XDA community since it first came to light, originally as a lurker and, after picking up my old ppc6800, a member. I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
Now, since the g1 came out (and even before that in some winmo crowds) iPhone users have been referred to as sheep. The implication is that they blindly follow Steve Jobs and instantly accept whatever he says as a law that cannot be challenged. It also implies simple-mindedness.
As of late, I have witnessed more of this behavior coming from android fans than iOS or any other OS (and before it's implied it physically pains me to say anything positive about that jumbled mess of an OS). If you look in any android related thread that exceeds three pages, namely the "google vs...." threads then you'll witness, first of all a number of unnecessary posts. A good portion of android fans come in simply to state something along the lines of "yay google" or, "android all da way." The levels of literacy, or lack thereof, paired with the simple-minded approach of their posts is pretty much the very definition of a "sheep." Second, and in my opinion even worse, are the people who enter these threads, are fully aware of what is going on, and still treat the situation as though google is in the right and they don't deserve to get sued just because everything they are as a company is stolen. The most common argument in this type of post is that the patents are bull****. They are for trivial things that we do passively. The fact of the matter though is that this was not always the case. Case in point, I just had a discussion with someone who said that the way that we update our address book is not a valid patent. Now, in modern times updating our address books on our phone or computer is something we do in passing. However at some point the ability to do so was unheard of until someone came up with it and filed a patent. Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine? The blind following is the other side of this "sheepish" behavior.
Though I'm absolutely certain it will, this was not intended to start any wars. It's more or less a cautionary measure. Don't turn into that which you so desperately hate.
Agree. My first 'smartphone' was a temporary g1 while my Nokia(can't remember the model no. but a small metal one...) was being repaired. It WAS a revelation, but behind the then current iPhone in many ways. I subsequently went for an X10, and now an Xperia Arc despite the initial poor support from SE. I still prefer the android OS for several reasons, but ultimately the iPhone is very good at what it does. There will always be a huge argument over the open/closed OS and who are the sheep, I was pretty anti-Apple years ago but in retrospect it was just pettiness.
sinkster©
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
Most of the "Android ftw" or "Android is much better" posts are from people desperately trying to reach 10 posts so they can ask some question in the devs sections which has probably been asked before.
Just look at the Steve Job's or battery related threads in OT, they're full of it.
This is an interesting topic. I believe that you will find smart people and trolls in all OS camps. My belief as to why so much Android now is its success. The larger and more prominent an OS is the more backers it will have and with this comes the fools. The sheer volume of Android posts vs windows phone posts here suggests that there are more posters and thus more trolls. That being said Android 4 lyfe.
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I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
patents
z33dev33l said:
Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine?
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Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
phones
z33dev33l said:
I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
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same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
AllGamer said:
same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
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Click to collapse
I am awaiting the Galaxy Note and Galaxy Skin (I heard of the Skin from a local newspaper)
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App
lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment than in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
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Click to collapse
So true, so true
z33dev33l said:
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
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Even if I don't agree with your original point entirely I really agree with this right here.
I still refer to apple users as "iSheep" sometimes.
You just have to understand that when I say that, I am not saying that A. All apple users are sheep. B. there aren't users of microsoft or google who are sheep.
All brands have blind loyalist, all systems have flaws.
The problem I have with "iSheep" is that they don't research, think or care about what else is out there. They also accept products built to be restrictive towards them.
Sure android devices do have restrictions and flaws and fixing that voids the warranty, but at least the ground up design is based on allowing the user to do what they want.
Android is just as guilty of Apple of having followers with blind loyalty, I don't deny that nor do I ever try to.
I will also say that part of my critiquing of apple comes from the fact that apple markets directly to the users ego. They sell "cool" they don't sell devices. It is marketing gold, but as a person studying software engineering.. I absolutely abhor the way they don't market devices.. They market a reason to have arrogance and superiority complexes.
I am not saying users of other products are innocent, but nothing burns me up more than to have someone start being judgmental of my purchases because they were blessed by the all knowing god Jobs in the Apple store.
Ok, time for me to rip on android users for just a second.
Guys, I love android.. Can we get past the inferiority complex now? We have a lot of great options.. I don't care how the latest i-whatever compares.
I really don't care to see the i-whatever compared to every android product out there either. Quit treating it like an on going competition.
I mean really.. if we quit comparing devices at every single turn, we will all be that much happier.
I like to keep track of what is out and what is up and new.. But, seriously.. why even talk about i-whatever at all? they release a phone once a year.. Why compare brand new phones to ones that are in the electronics world almost legacy hardware.
this post should be moved to the question and answer forum, LOLOL
i concur iSheep vs. aSheep vs. mSheep (or wSheep?)
it's true, people should just focus on the fun thing about the latest and gadget being released.
after all that's why most of us are in here.
let the companies fight each other until there's no left
but until then as consumers lets just rip the benefits, and hack the crap out of the gadgets that we like the most.
Hey everyone I'm new to the forum. I was just reading this, and found it interesting haha. So what exactly is meant by the term "sheep"?
lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
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Click to collapse
It certainly was, though of the two posts I don't feel that mine was the only one with such intent.
AllGamer said:
Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
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Click to collapse
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
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Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
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Click to collapse
Should companies really be allowed to have vague and potentially ambiguous patents?
I would love to patent square box like objects then sue -
phone makers
tv makers
picture frame makers
every computer manufacturer
usb drive manufacterers.
Ect, ect, ect
I do wish people would quit worrying about what apple is doing..
On the other hand, to deny that Apple is a gigantic troll in a lot of ways is out right denial.
---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another issue that I have, is patents hamper innovation.
What is the point of developing something new based on existing technology, if your only going to get sued for it anyway even if you are doing it totally different?
Now days being "inspired" by someone else is grounds for a law suit..
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
however, if you become noticed, become the biggest toothbrush manufacturer in the world, you can bet that whoever holds the patent will be down your throat as they should be.
according to Apple... it's no longer about patents
check out the latest court case in Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/...duce-customers-court-told-20110929-1kyl5.html
Apple also raised concerns that every Galaxy Tab sold would cost it future app sales as the users would become "Android people". Apple's iTunes App Store dominance would be challenged if customers were "seduced" or "sapped away by the Galaxy Tab and its infringements".
"They'll then be Android people and the investment in the apps that they make to purchase on their Galaxy Tab will be something they can't use on an Apple product," Apple's lawyer said.
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Samsung's lawyers have criticised the fact that Apple did not seek injunctions against previous Samsung products that would by their logic also infringe its patents. Apple's response to this was that, because Samsung is a significant supplier to Apple, it "engaged in negotiations in the first instance".
"We're not the first Android on the market and other people are getting in fast. It's critical that we're a first mover not dribble in behind everybody else. It's blossoming at the moment," Samsung's lawyer said.
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Apple real target is not really Samsung violating their patents, it's about afraid of losing market to Android, and afraid of people choosing Android over iOS, and people spending their money in Android Market than Apps Store
When Android first started with HTC and Motorola, they were not as advanced enough as the hardware spec offered by Samsung
which easily attracted a lot of people, myself included, i purchased it for the hardware.
so, clearly Apple only wants to slow Samsung down, just so people have less choices to be switched over to Android
Apple is preventing people from Choosing what they want to use, by their logic eliminating Samsung will drastically reduce the will to choose another better device and less chance of people liking another OS
so practically the same can be applied for the good phones being released by Samsung for Windows
Was going to post in Off Topic, but I thought this might get buried, and thought it mighty important, also, general and on-topic..lol
As you may have heard, there is currently a lawsuit from some devs against software giants like apple, google, adobe, just to name a few. The lawsuit alleges that these major software companies have agreed not to hire anyone from a rival software firm while they are still working for the rival (i.e. Apple treats you like crap? Google isn't going to hire you and treat you any better), what's more they agreed to tell their rivals when one of their employees is submitting their resume and seeking employment at their rival firm. Also, after you leave, they don't want you working for their rivals either..there was talk about even FORMER employees being blacklisted from employment at rival firms.
Recently emails have surfaced between Steve Jobs and CEO of Adobe at the time who informed Jobs that his anti-poaching agreement was 'likely illegal'. As someone who is getting into development now, and am quite the noob, this really lifted a veil off of a world where corporations are using the developers and then ruining their careers or locking them into having to work for the same company, if they want to work at all, for the rest of their career, without opportunity being given to have better benefits because of an almost mafia-like agreement between these software giants.
Is this typical from you guys' experience?? And what is your opinion on it..if you have one..
Most of the places I've worked at have had some kind of similar thing in the contract. It's generally been that I can't work for direct competition within a period of x months after leaving the company. I've never heard of anything going into the depths you've mentioned though, but if Mr.A and Mr.B agree not to employ each others staff then I don't really see what you can do about that.
http:// http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/20/steve-jobs-anti-poaching_n_1220244.html?ref=technology
Tell me what you think about wonderful pacifist lefty Jobs now ifanbois lol
Also, Google 'FOXCONN'..that place is awful, another thing that troubles me about technology and apple specificlly..apple directly employs over 100,000 people, and indirectly over 700,000, yet only 45,000 of those jobs are American, mostly designers and the guys who work at Corning making gorilla glass for i-stuff..I was looking at becoming an engineer or programmer, but I'm beginning to wonder if it is a 'morraly sound' decision lol
I dunno what exactly the government doesn't like about it, unless the rules are in place to keep companies from hoarding skilled employees on the assumption that it gives them some kind of competitive advantage.
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Thread moved. Would advise you to read forum rules and post in correct section.
...oops, but forgive i don't understand why this would be in 'android development' 'android general' because it isn't about android specifically..but many smartphone manufacturers/software companies not excusively android (???) forgive i sound dense..but I did read and do follow the rules (I thought!) so I just want to know exactly why this was not considered to be in the right section (the news article I posted was actually Apple-heavy, definitely not 'android development general discussion' thread material I thought surely.. )
I created this post on Mac Forums, and was a bit critical of the upcoming iPhone5, but tried to be honest, and not start a flame war, and man did the iSheep freak on me;
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1434009
Zorachus said:
I created this post on Mac Forums, and was a bit critical of the upcoming iPhone5, but tried to be honest, and not start a flame war, and man did the iSheep freak on me;
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1434009
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I think some of them took offense when you said the sheep will buy it in droves. But then again looking at the comments no one was able to give you good explanations other than "It only happens once a year so it's exciting" and "it's an apple product".
So it seems as if the sheep took offense to being called sheep?
You made some valid points, although your word choices were flame bait worthy. I think the only intelligible answer was "It's part of the Apple ecosystem" which still doesn't explain why there needs to be a new one every year, almost identical to the last one. That explanation is like saying you need to buy a new remote for your TV every year so that you can access the newest channels. "Comes with buttons for channel 1,2,3 and now introducing a button for channel 4!"
That's not to say there aren't people who buy Apple products for specific functionality and usability, but it seems as if those are in the minority of users.
Here's the answer you were unable to get on a mac forum:
It's a status symbol at this point. People get it to say they have it, not to be able to enjoy the improvements. And so there isn't much of a push to improve from a tech standpoint, all that R&D ends up going into making the next device look extremely similar but slightly different. They are the last major smartphone manufacturer to add LTE to their devices, in the beginning it took them forever to implement simple basic phone features like MMS.
They definitely changed consumer expectations with the first iPhone, but seem to be mostly playing keep up now.
Anything related to that OS or device must go to our sister site iphonedevelopers.com