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And the judge complies and orders samsung to release them.
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/05/24/appl...devices?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget
"San Jose Judge Lucy Koh is forcing Samsung to hand over new and unreleased mobile devices to its rival, Apple. Apple's lawyers will get a chance to look at these devices as part of its infringement case against Samsung. In this complaint, Apple is accusing Samsung of violating a variety of utility patents, design patents and trade dress registrations for its suite of iOS devices.
The phones and tablets requested by Apple include the Samsung Galaxy S2, Galaxy Tab 8.9, Galaxy Tab 10.1, Infuse 4G and Droid Charge. Apple will be looking closely at the packaging and the TouchWiz UI used by the Korean manufacturer to see how closely it mimics Apple's iPhone, iPad and iPod touch. Specifically, Apple is looking for elements that will confuse people into thinking the Samsung devices are the same as the iPhone.
In response to Apple's complaint, Samsung countersued Apple for patent infringement in Korea, Japan and Germany. Both cases are slowly making their way through the legal system in each of these countries."
this is a huge conflict of interest to me, how can another phone competitor be allowed access to prototype phones with the newest and best secrets/ideas to be released by a fellow phone maker/competitor?
what a joke.
if apple actually took the time to open the iphone to more carriers, maybe make a entire line of iphones like a droid line or whatever, with different carriers, even a prepaid they would be way better suited and have more market share. instead of wasting time on endless litigation and court cases.
anyone who buys apple is a moron.
i want to know, is apple going to hand over a prototype iphone 5 for samsung to "check" for mimicking?
or are we just gonna have to find one near a urinal at a local bar again?
I agree! That is just ridiculous. I don't see how they can do that. Your going to take something that a company puts a lot of R&D into and make them give it to their competition. That should be a crime itself!
Richard1510 said:
I agree! That is just ridiculous. I don't see how they can do that. Your going to take something that a company puts a lot of R&D into and make them give it to their competition. That should be a crime itself!
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i wish more ppl would post on this story.
its the most absurd thing i have ever heard...
To be fair, Apple did copyright the designs and touchwiz and even the original Galaxy S looks a lot like Apple's designs. People wouldn't make a big deal out of this if it wasn't Apple. Also, this topic was made already.
intheb0x said:
i wish more ppl would post on this story.
its the most absurd thing i have ever heard...
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Agreed, this is stupid at face value, although the models they have to hand over are either released or going to be released imminently. However I had a little look around and this article from cnet says that only the Apple legal team will be allowed to see the devices (no-one from Apple or any of their in-house lawyers can). So as long as their legal team aren't crooks and mysteriously start acquiring complementary iWhatevers I'm sure Samsung will be fine
vbetts said:
To be fair, Apple did copyright the designs and touchwiz and even the original Galaxy S looks a lot like Apple's designs. People wouldn't make a big deal out of this if it wasn't Apple. Also, this topic was made already.
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it may look like it, but its not iOs what so ever.
and wheres the thread?
i searched and did not find it.
and i would of posted this if it was any other phone maker.
apple sues everyone and anyone over ANYTHING.
they think they own everything related to smart phones, i run a phone with touchwiz, ive had iphones they are NOT even close to being the same.
just because they share tile looks doesnt mean they "stole" the ugly idea from apple.
apple is a joke, they want every phone maker to not be innovative and make things, they want the iphone to have every new thing that comes to market while every other phone be dirt.
Apple trademarked the design and ui of ios, and touchwiz is very similar to it. It's not that it's Ios(which is clearly isn't), but it's using designs close to Ios such as the app drawer.
Here's the thread too, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1094205
Apple is also a business, give me a business that doesn't sue anyone over anything.
They don't think they own everything, they trademark designs for them to use, and for others who've they given permission to use. They obviously look close enough for a judge to take this case. What's the point of trademarking something if others are going to use a design close enough to it? They trademark to protect their designs. Apple isn't suing HTC, Motorola, or LG. Also, I wasn't saying you wouldn't. I'm only saying you would or other people would because it involves Apple demanding from another company. If it were Samsung, HTC, Motorola, or LG demanding from another company people wouldn't care, or hell even if Apple didn't demand anything from the above mentioned companies.
vbetts said:
Apple trademarked the design and ui of ios, and touchwiz is very similar to it. It's not that it's Ios(which is clearly isn't), but it's using designs close to Ios such as the app drawer.
Here's the thread too, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1094205
Apple is also a business, give me a business that doesn't sue anyone over anything.
They don't think they own everything, they trademark designs for them to use, and for others who've they given permission to use. They obviously look close enough for a judge to take this case. Apple isn't suing HTC, Motorola, or LG.
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thanks for the link.
apple has been sending the lawyers on a frenzy lately, i think they are upset that everyone doesnt have a iphone.
i think they are more "sue" happy then many other companies. Microsoft could be up there with them.
i guess we will see how it fans out, but i think the phone thing should go both ways, apple should have to give up the newest iphone as well./
Any company would do it. That's why companies hire lawyers, to sue and to counter sue and defend. They're protecting their product, it's that simple. Apple doesn't need to give them anything either, that's not how this case works. Samsung doesn't have designs that they've trademarked that Apple is using, plus they're asking for prototypes, not new devices.
vbetts said:
Any company would do it. That's why companies hire lawyers, to sue and to counter sue and defend. They're protecting their product, it's that simple. Apple doesn't need to give them anything either, that's not how this case works. Samsung doesn't have designs that they've trademarked that Apple is using, plus they're asking for prototypes, not new devices.
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Most of the devices they listed are out now.
Its clear apple is trigger happy with the suing finger..
they do not want anyone to compete with them, if they can take aim at anything, then they will.
More so then ANY other company.
They are defending a product which they want to be the only product people buy. samsung is putting a dent into them. if they could sue htc, moto and so on THEY WOULD. they hate the fact that they have competition.
I know that Samsung will triumph over the Apple juggernaut.
Sent from my Droid using XDA App
Apple just doesn't have the guts to compete directly with google. The company is desperate for lost market share
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wang1404 said:
Apple just doesn't have the guts to compete directly with google. The company is desperate for lost market share
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App
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+1 they are the biggest iphonies around!
apple
I wouldn't put anything past Apple they are school yard bullies !!
intheb0x said:
Most of the devices they listed are out now.
Its clear apple is trigger happy with the suing finger..
they do not want anyone to compete with them, if they can take aim at anything, then they will.
More so then ANY other company.
They are defending a product which they want to be the only product people buy. samsung is putting a dent into them. if they could sue htc, moto and so on THEY WOULD. they hate the fact that they have competition.
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Any company is, I can easily name a few like Sony(Geohot), movie studios(So much to the point they leak their movies and place trojans in them), and easy to find more. Also, Apple did not ask for finished products, they asked for prototypes. They are defending a product that they trademarked, any company would do it easily. That's why they trademark it. It maybe to shut down competition, but Apple isn't the only one who does that and that's why companies trademark designs, and technologies.
Apple just doesn't have the guts to compete directly with google. The company is desperate for lost market share
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Google doesn't make the phones, so it's hard to compete against them word for word to say.
My problem with a lot of people I've noticed, they're only looking at it from one side. I'm not looking at it as Apple Vs Samsung. I'm looking at a company defending their product. Wouldn't you be mad if someone was using your designs without your permission and getting any type of revenue from it? I like both Apple and Google. I look at both sides of it and not just one. I don't agree with everything Apple has done, but at the same time I don't agree with what Samsung has done. People are acting like Samsung hasn't done anything wrong, when this is not the truth at all. Behold, Moment, I can easily name more that they broke support for. Even if you still have an old 2g and need support for it, you can take it to an Apple store and they'll figure out the problem, and offer a fix, or an upgrade. Hell, for the Moment's issues I had to fight with Sprint just to get a discount on an early upgrade.
I thnk iz just greed do it as samsung released an earlier design look up the dates in wiki i forgot wat phone was it. Comes to mind lg ws before iphones 2007 shaped phone
if there is 5 similarities, samsung will get any punishment from US law
SuperDeform said:
I thnk iz just greed do it as samsung released an earlier design look up the dates in wiki i forgot wat phone was it. Comes to mind lg ws before iphones 2007 shaped phone
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But they didn't trademark the designs at all.
vbetts said:
But they didn't trademark the designs at all.
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Mmmmm that really sux
vbetts said:
Any company is, I can easily name a few like Sony(Geohot), movie studios(So much to the point they leak their movies and place trojans in them), and easy to find more. Also, Apple did not ask for finished products, they asked for prototypes. They are defending a product that they trademarked, any company would do it easily. That's why they trademark it. It maybe to shut down competition, but Apple isn't the only one who does that and that's why companies trademark designs, and technologies.
Google doesn't make the phones, so it's hard to compete against them word for word to say.
My problem with a lot of people I've noticed, they're only looking at it from one side. I'm not looking at it as Apple Vs Samsung. I'm looking at a company defending their product. Wouldn't you be mad if someone was using your designs without your permission and getting any type of revenue from it? I like both Apple and Google. I look at both sides of it and not just one. I don't agree with everything Apple has done, but at the same time I don't agree with what Samsung has done. People are acting like Samsung hasn't done anything wrong, when this is not the truth at all. Behold, Moment, I can easily name more that they broke support for. Even if you still have an old 2g and need support for it, you can take it to an Apple store and they'll figure out the problem, and offer a fix, or an upgrade. Hell, for the Moment's issues I had to fight with Sprint just to get a discount on an early upgrade.
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Agree!
10!
I saw this in another forum and thought I would also share it here in the Sensation Forum.
Well I'm not a Apple or MS fan, but Apple is throwing all it's punches towards Android it seems. Just shows how much of a impact Android has had on them and will have in the future.
Anyway read this article about the ITC and HTC violating Apples Patents. I hope HTC comes back a wipes the **** out of Apple in the end.
http://allthingsd.com/20110715/itc-rules-htc-violated-two-apple-patents/?refcat=news
And here http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/
Apple is just full of crap.
This will blow over, it wont have a huge impact, they wont be able to sue much for damages even if HTC did loose. Android is open source, they will either find a loop hole or just work around it for future releases. No worries here.
That's crap.. The patents are 15 years old. Looks like Android is starting to be a threat to them.
Sent via HTC Sensation
They are very paranoid of all the Android success...hope HTC wins the appeal!
Google need to take action to protect its eco system.
Send from: gplus.to/everyday
I like to see Apple suing more OEMs so they will gang up on Apple and sue back togather in revenge, and if at the end of the day HTC loses and got banned from selling Android devices in the US market, American consumers will probably be stuck with smuggled products.
Patent enforcement is a big and lucrative business. All the major players have a portfolio of patents they use defensively to protect themselves from being sued. This quote sums up HTC's particular position:
HTC is considered the most vulnerable legally of the Android partners because it lacks a robust portfolio of patents that act as a potential shield. Earlier this month, HTC purchased S3 Graphics, largely because of a collection of patents that the ITC administrative law judge recently determined were used illegally by Apple.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/
dhumil said:
That's crap.. The patents are 15 years old. Looks like Android is starting to be a threat to them.
Sent via HTC Sensation
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They're that old??
Hmm.....IIRC,international patents last 17 years.
Two years of appeals....
I suspect that in the end,Apple will get theirs.
The sad part is that I don't dislike Apple,they just don't impress me.
It was only judge who ruled in Apple's favor. It's still going to be reviewed by the whole panel of judges. This isn't even close to a "victory" for Apple. Yet.
BarryH_GEG said:
Patent enforcement is a big and lucrative business. All the major players have a portfolio of patents they use defensively to protect themselves from being sued. This quote sums up HTC's particular position:
HTC is considered the most vulnerable legally of the Android partners because it lacks a robust portfolio of patents that act as a potential shield. Earlier this month, HTC purchased S3 Graphics, largely because of a collection of patents that the ITC administrative law judge recently determined were used illegally by Apple.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/
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Thanks for the link, I added it to the first post as well. It looks like HTC might be buying the patents as defense.
Like others said it is a long way from over.
everyday48 said:
Google need to take action to protect its eco system.
Send from: gplus.to/everyday
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It really sucks they lost out on the Nortel patents. It would have helped a lot. But honestly, this patent trolling has to stop. It's getting ridiculous now.
The only reason why android is getting all these random lawsuits is because its a threat.. Apple never cared before Google bought android. YES android existed before the G1 from Google, Google bought android out and took it to new levels, which we all thank lol.. The big players do this all the time, Apple Vs Microsoft, Apple Vs. Samsung, Apple Vs. Android... Well microsoft owns part of Apple's stocks, and vise-versa, its a way to move money around without being blunt obvious..
aNYthing24 said:
this patent trolling has to stop.
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+1
Even if HTC loses, it won't really change anything except their profit margin. They'll end up paying Apple something per handset for use of their intellectual property but won't have to redesign the handsets. But now that they own patents that Apple's theoretically infringing on the whole thing could be a draw anyway.
Apple has resorted to patent trolling hopefully...the appeals court will overturn the ruling
Bloody Apple...why don`t they just create great products instead of suing competitors. Stupid American thinking - if you can`t beat your competitor, sue him.
But no to worry - Google reported that every day there are 550 000 Android devices activated.
I cannot believe that Apple is actually trying to claim that they invented SCROLLING and TOUCH SCREENS. And all this as they're blatantly copying Android's notifications for iOS 5. I hope Google sues the living **** out of them.
This company is the very definition of scum.
I don't like Apple at all
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
When your own pool of innovation has run dry, sue the other guy for having a bigger pool
Steve Jobs fostered this sort of thinking by Apple back in the garage days, and although they have found ways over the years to manipulate their groupthink disciples and the non-techie commonman into believing that they have changed, it's never really been any different. Small wonder, since Microsoft and Apple basically created each other, and forged their own business personas together... an endless game of backstabbing between two foul companies, whilst at the same time they attempt to destroy anyone else in the middle.
Companies like Microsoft and Apple make me wish that anti-trust investigations were more centered around *groups* of corporations, rather than simply individual ones. A lot more of the real dirt going on in the tech markets would maybe get scrubbed off of the floor, so to speak
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/125925.html
According to this article an apple win will mean Android likely having to change a lot to try and get around the patents, or for Google to strike a deal with Apple.
From the article:
"In an ominous sign, Posner's interpretation of a real-time app programming interface technology patent also implies Motorola and other Android supporters not only infringe on the patent, but may not have an easy way to get around the patent for their phones, claims patent blogger Florian Muller.
The ruling didn't find companies were imitating the patents, but it could have a major impact when Motorola and Apple go to trial this summer. Posner has scheduled a jury trial for June 11 in the cases. If found guilty, Google may have to significantly change aspects of its Android OS in order to appease the courts."
Given that the patents are presumably also owned by Apple in Europe and not just in America, doesn't this mean that if Apple win they could make the same case outside America and win?
After all if Apples patents are not covered by Frand in Europe, as reports on the EU investigation of Samsung say, then Apple would not have to agree to Android phone makers paying a licence fee and could therefore order a ban of products using it.
Surely this is actually a big case as it could change Android and win the patent war for Apple?
EDIT: It seems the key patents involved that Apple own and could cause the problems for Android are...
U.S. Patent No. 6,493,002 on a "method and apparatus for displaying and accessing control and status information in a computer system"; Apple is also asserting this one against Samsung (in California)
U.S. Patent No. 6,343,263 on a "real-time signal processing system for serially transmitted data"; this is the key API patent that Judge Posner interprets much more favorably to Apple than the final decision-makers at the ITC did (and which Apple is still pursing against HTC through an appeal to the Federal Circuit)
U.S. Patent No. 5,964,647 on a "system and method for performing an action on a structure in computer-generated data"; this is the "data tapping" patent based on which the ITC ordered an import ban against infringing HTC devices (HTC has meanwhile removed the feature in order to steer clear of infringement)
U.S. Patent No. 7,479,949 on a "touch screen device, method, and graphical user interface for determining commands by applying heuristics"; this is a key Steve Jobs multitouch patent that Judge Posner appears to interpret quite favorably to Apple's interests, a fact that Apple flagged to the ITC, where it's using this patent against Samsung
(Patent details from http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/)
Dave
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Moving to Q&A
Sorry. Thanks for moving it though.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
http://www.talkandroid.com/91827-go...ion-pull-down-bar-still-pending/#.Tz8Ts-ywVz3
Saw this posted over on Droidforums. With everything that Apple has sued over, Google has not had the means to return the favor as it has not done much in the way of patenting things that seem intuitive, or have they? Seems they filed a patent for a notification tab all the way back in '09, just hasn't been approved yet. Looks like iOS 5 may pay for so blatantly ripping off Android after all the whining about things that Android has supposedly "stolen" from Apple. Guess we'll see what comes of this.
Once Motorola merger completes GOOG will be in much better position to protect itself from the nonsense patent lawsuits. Motorola patents would be a deterrent to Apple.
I hope Google rips Apple.
akashvani said:
Once Motorola merger completes GOOG will be in much better position to protect itself from the nonsense patent lawsuits. Motorola patents would be a deterrent to Apple.
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Yup, Motorolla has been making mobile phones/mobile communication since 1928, so you bet they have MANY patents that relate to how a mobile phone works.
adelmundo said:
Yup, Motorolla has been making mobile phones/mobile communication since 1928, so you bet they have MANY patents that relate to how a mobile phone works.
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They do but in europe that means they are legally obliged to allow others to use those patents as without them no others could make phones. Its called frand and there must be equivalent rule in usa and other countries.
Dave
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mistermentality said:
They do but in europe that means they are legally obliged to allow others to use those patents as without them no others could make phones. Its called frand and there must be equivalent rule in usa and other countries.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
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The patent holder has to agree they are covered by FRAND, normally in order for products to be made and sold, or in order to match the requirement of a standard (ie a consortium agrees a new standard, then manufacturers set out to be the first to make the technology to fit the standard).
For instance if Motorola came up with a new technology that would give 10 days battery life and 1Gbps connection but didn't release that as FRAND, mobile equipment manufacturers (tower makers etc) would find it very difficult to make equipment to use that technology so Motorola can then sell phones that use it.
What happened with the Apple FRAND 3G issue is they didn't bother to make any payments so "stole" the technology. Now they've been caught out and told they must pay, they're objecting to being penalised for stealing, which is why they're trying to put pressure on the patent system to have the rules changed in their favour.
There are plenty of other patents which don't come under FRAND, the push email that Apple have infringed for instance.
I hope google gets his patent and goes to apple "Well we have a core feature of your OS on all your devices patented, we won't use this patent against you and force you to change your whole OS as long as you leave us, and the other handset makers alone"
xaccers said:
The patent holder has to agree they are covered by FRAND, normally in order for products to be made and sold, or in order to match the requirement of a standard (ie a consortium agrees a new standard, then manufacturers set out to be the first to make the technology to fit the standard).
For instance if Motorola came up with a new technology that would give 10 days battery life and 1Gbps connection but didn't release that as FRAND, mobile equipment manufacturers (tower makers etc) would find it very difficult to make equipment to use that technology so Motorola can then sell phones that use it.
What happened with the Apple FRAND 3G issue is they didn't bother to make any payments so "stole" the technology. Now they've been caught out and told they must pay, they're objecting to being penalised for stealing, which is why they're trying to put pressure on the patent system to have the rules changed in their favour.
There are plenty of other patents which don't come under FRAND, the push email that Apple have infringed for instance.
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I was under the impression from the patents blog that certain essential patents have to be licenced as otherwise the patent holder is stifling competition.
Apple did get caught not paying and got away with it by apparently saying they would make a new licence fee offer to motorola. This got the injunction lifted but their new offer was still less than motorola wanted as it was a clever but effective way to lift the iphone ban.
Apples attitude is "we are apple, do what we say or you will be litigated out of existence". And with such deep pockets no one can stop them because the world belongs to the lawyers.
There is no way even a big hundred million dollar company could afford to battle apple because sooner or later it comes down to who can pay their lawyers the longest and that's always going to be the richest company.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
mistermentality said:
I was under the impression from the patents blog that certain essential patents have to be licenced as otherwise the patent holder is stifling competition.
Apple did get caught not paying and got away with it by apparently saying they would make a new licence fee offer to motorola. This got the injunction lifted but their new offer was still less than motorola wanted as it was a clever but effective way to lift the iphone ban.
Apples attitude is "we are apple, do what we say or you will be litigated out of existence". And with such deep pockets no one can stop them because the world belongs to the lawyers.
There is no way even a big hundred million dollar company could afford to battle apple because sooner or later it comes down to who can pay their lawyers the longest and that's always going to be the richest company.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Yes in this case the patent is part of the 3G standard, so the 3G consortium agreed on the 3G standard and either tasked them with creating the technology to meet the standard or they were the the first/best of the bunch of companies that tried to make the technology to meet the standard. Had they not agreed to FRAND then another technology method would have been given the status as part of the 3G standard.
Remember the issues with different dial up modem technologies until one was picked as the standard? Oh fun times those were
http://www.bgr.in/manufacturers/app...ttempts-to-dodge-apple’s-slide-unlock-patent/
Another patent article, though what I found interesting is the mentioned-in-passing patent that Google has filed for Voice Recognition unlocking and possibly Face Recognition unlocking. Looks like Apple will have to pay licensing fees in the future or be left in the dust.
I'm hoping Google also beats them to the punch on fingerprint unlocking. Sucks that manufacturers and developers have to patent every damn little thing now though.
mistermentality said:
I was under the impression from the patents blog that certain essential patents have to be licenced as otherwise the patent holder is stifling competition.
Apple did get caught not paying and got away with it by apparently saying they would make a new licence fee offer to motorola. This got the injunction lifted but their new offer was still less than motorola wanted as it was a clever but effective way to lift the iphone ban.
Apples attitude is "we are apple, do what we say or you will be litigated out of existence". And with such deep pockets no one can stop them because the world belongs to the lawyers.
There is no way even a big hundred million dollar company could afford to battle apple because sooner or later it comes down to who can pay their lawyers the longest and that's always going to be the richest company.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
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Dave
Msft used to think they are above the law because of their deep pockets. Time will tell how long Appl will remain the big bully without paying for its crimes.
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Aun no puedo entrar, ...
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/16/google-files-patent-app-for-unlocking-devices-says-we-dont-nee/
And a little more
http://allthingsd.com/20120731/sams...undercut-apples-design-claims/#slideshow-1-12
Given that Apple are arguing Samsung copied their iphone design, surely the fact that the judge refused to allow these iphone like designs (but that predate the iphone) as evidence is a sign of bias?
By not allowing the evidence to prove they were independently arriving at a similar design to Apple, Judge Koh has made Samsungs defence completely pointless because they now can't prove their point, yet conversely Apple are allowed to say that the same phone designs copy the iphone - even though they predate it, because the jury can never see the evidence to the contrary.
Surely this is a case of a judge sabotaging a case on purpose?
Dave
A US judge favouring a US company over a foreign one at the expense of justice?
Shirley no such thing could happen.... Oh wait
My hatred for Apple is so great that I shall post here as well. Yes, it seems that there is clear bias here, actually what may even constitute misconduct, though it would be almost impossible to prove.
Apple is a US company in name only: All the employment is in China, and all the money is in offshore banks out of the IRS's reach. They don't really benefit people in the US so there is no point in favoring them.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
MissionImprobable said:
My hatred for Apple is so great that I shall post here as well. Yes, it seems that there is clear bias here, actually what may even constitute misconduct, though it would be almost impossible to prove.
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I agree, if the point of the trial is to show samsung didn't copy apple, and the evidence that proves it is excluded by the judge, that makes the case pretty unwinnable for samsung.
Not sure what Koh used as an excuse but even I'm wondering if she is biased now and I've been trying to keep an open mind about her rulings.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
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DomingoZuniga said:
Apple is a US company in name only: All the employment is in China, and all the money is in offshore banks out of the IRS's reach. They don't really benefit people in the US so there is no point in favoring them.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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But they bring the us economy, which is trillions of dollars in debt, a lot of much needed money so it makes sense they may have a vested interest in helping that revenue continue.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Deleted
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
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MissionImprobable said:
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
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+1 What he said!
I think the Judge's decision on this created a valid reason for an appeal.
Apple is just trying to get rid of competition legally because they realize they can't beat them in the actual phone wars. To me every lawsuit shows how much they are scrambling to try and stay in the running. Which is more pathetic every time and I will never buy one for the pure fact of these childish and desperate actions.
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alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
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Click to collapse
Don't take this the wrong way but what have the sony designs to do with this? I was specifically referring to the 2006 Samsung designs that are shown in the linked to article and not apples sony ones.
I can see your point regarding apples sony designs but we are on about pre iphone designs from samsung.
As you say samsung has burden of proof so by not allowing them to show that they had an iphone like design a year before the iphone was made public Judge Koh is dismissing their best evidence unfairly.
Please remember that this is not about the sony designs you seem to think it is but actual samsung designs. I think you assumed it was about sony ones which suggests you didn't read any of the article.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, I use a Mac, an iPad and an android phone. And yes, Im pretty annoyed by these lawsuits as well;
alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apart from the fact you didn't pay much attention at what we're talking about in this thread, i can't find many of these "APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA"-like comments here around.
OptimusLove said:
Agreed, I use a Mac, an iPad and an android phone. And yes, Im pretty annoyed by these lawsuits as well;
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Click to collapse
That's right, pretty annoying. The "patent war" is actually apple which is attacking each other.
So, which is the way to stop this "war"?
1) apple stops with ridiculous lawsuits
or
2) everyone accepts apple's conditions and then no more android, no more smartphones (at least until someone comes up with a triangular device), no more tablets (btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002). As a result we'll have a total monopoly... great!
xdaid said:
Apart from the fact you didn't pay much attention at what we're talking about in this thread, i can't find many of these "APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA"-like comments here around.
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Click to collapse
So in all the time you've been here on XDA: you never saw any thread that mentions Apple degrade into a pissing match. Consider yourself lucky then.
That's right, pretty annoying. But the "patent war" is actually apple which is attacking each other.
So, which is the way to stop this "war"?
1) apple stops with ridicolous lawsuits
or
2) everyone accepts apple's conditions and then no more android, no more smartphones (at least until someone comes up with a triangular device), no more tablets (btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002). As a result we'll have a total monopoly... great!
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Click to collapse
I think we both know the answer to this already. Total reform of the patent system. Don't hate the player, hate the game and Apple's playing the game brilliantly. I've been saying this since 2002. Maybe with on-going revolutionaries in social-networking as well as continued popularization of media access through mobile devices will people finally get off their nut and make our government do something. Maybe enough of us will get together to start our own Pirate Party.
---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 AM ----------
MissionImprobable said:
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
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Click to collapse
I'm thankful for the information. I'll take this over the usual "I hate Apple" posts. Since you seem sure of yourself, how can invalidating Apple's patents help Samsung? Does a judge really have the authority to invalidate a company's existing patent portfolio?
xdaid said:
btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002
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Click to collapse
Not quite, first tablet pc concept was described in sixties and called the dynabook but not made, just described in detail even referring to use of a stylus and multitouch.
Apples newton tablet came out almost ten years before microsofts so ms were not first, although microsofts was the first tablet as we know them today.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alpha-niner64 said:
I'm thankful for the information. I'll take this over the usual "I hate Apple" posts. Since you seem sure of yourself, how can invalidating Apple's patents help Samsung? Does a judge really have the authority to invalidate a company's existing patent portfolio?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It helps Samsung and every other manufacturer because it will show that the U.S. courts have sense when dealing with what is and isn't a valid, patentable idea. These patents are the means by which Apple has gotten each and every one of its injunctions and it will certainly seek more injunctions with its new patents.
Yes, it is judges and only judges who decide the validity or lack there of when it comes to patents. The patent office passes almost anything that comes across its purview. It is then up to companies to raise the issue when they believe their patent has been violated and up to the courts to decide which side has the right of things in the situation.
Apple have asked the judge to automatically rule in its favour based on what it says is misconduct on Samsungs part by their leaking excluded evidence.
Call me skeptical but would it surprise anyone if the judge agrees?
Could give a valid excuse to the judge to make a favourable decision.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
I would be surprised. There's far too much precedence being set here that allowing the judge to supersede the jury would be....weird. I wouldn't be too worried about an automatic ruling because John Quinn is on the case. I would think it'd be in Apple's favor to draw out this case and let all the evidence and trump cards come out, so that if the ruling is made in their favor: Samsung would have a difficult time appealing the decision. Unless of course: Apple isn't as confident as it seems.