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Dislike Apple? ITC Rules HTC Violated 2 Apple Patents, Bad News for Android?

I saw this in another forum and thought I would also share it here in the Sensation Forum.
Well I'm not a Apple or MS fan, but Apple is throwing all it's punches towards Android it seems. Just shows how much of a impact Android has had on them and will have in the future.
Anyway read this article about the ITC and HTC violating Apples Patents. I hope HTC comes back a wipes the **** out of Apple in the end.
http://allthingsd.com/20110715/itc-rules-htc-violated-two-apple-patents/?refcat=news
And here http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/

Apple is just full of crap.
This will blow over, it wont have a huge impact, they wont be able to sue much for damages even if HTC did loose. Android is open source, they will either find a loop hole or just work around it for future releases. No worries here.

That's crap.. The patents are 15 years old. Looks like Android is starting to be a threat to them.
Sent via HTC Sensation

They are very paranoid of all the Android success...hope HTC wins the appeal!

Google need to take action to protect its eco system.
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I like to see Apple suing more OEMs so they will gang up on Apple and sue back togather in revenge, and if at the end of the day HTC loses and got banned from selling Android devices in the US market, American consumers will probably be stuck with smuggled products.

Patent enforcement is a big and lucrative business. All the major players have a portfolio of patents they use defensively to protect themselves from being sued. This quote sums up HTC's particular position:
HTC is considered the most vulnerable legally of the Android partners because it lacks a robust portfolio of patents that act as a potential shield. Earlier this month, HTC purchased S3 Graphics, largely because of a collection of patents that the ITC administrative law judge recently determined were used illegally by Apple.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/

dhumil said:
That's crap.. The patents are 15 years old. Looks like Android is starting to be a threat to them.
Sent via HTC Sensation
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They're that old??
Hmm.....IIRC,international patents last 17 years.
Two years of appeals....
I suspect that in the end,Apple will get theirs.
The sad part is that I don't dislike Apple,they just don't impress me.

It was only judge who ruled in Apple's favor. It's still going to be reviewed by the whole panel of judges. This isn't even close to a "victory" for Apple. Yet.

BarryH_GEG said:
Patent enforcement is a big and lucrative business. All the major players have a portfolio of patents they use defensively to protect themselves from being sued. This quote sums up HTC's particular position:
HTC is considered the most vulnerable legally of the Android partners because it lacks a robust portfolio of patents that act as a potential shield. Earlier this month, HTC purchased S3 Graphics, largely because of a collection of patents that the ITC administrative law judge recently determined were used illegally by Apple.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/
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Thanks for the link, I added it to the first post as well. It looks like HTC might be buying the patents as defense.
Like others said it is a long way from over.

everyday48 said:
Google need to take action to protect its eco system.
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It really sucks they lost out on the Nortel patents. It would have helped a lot. But honestly, this patent trolling has to stop. It's getting ridiculous now.

The only reason why android is getting all these random lawsuits is because its a threat.. Apple never cared before Google bought android. YES android existed before the G1 from Google, Google bought android out and took it to new levels, which we all thank lol.. The big players do this all the time, Apple Vs Microsoft, Apple Vs. Samsung, Apple Vs. Android... Well microsoft owns part of Apple's stocks, and vise-versa, its a way to move money around without being blunt obvious..

aNYthing24 said:
this patent trolling has to stop.
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+1
Even if HTC loses, it won't really change anything except their profit margin. They'll end up paying Apple something per handset for use of their intellectual property but won't have to redesign the handsets. But now that they own patents that Apple's theoretically infringing on the whole thing could be a draw anyway.

Apple has resorted to patent trolling hopefully...the appeals court will overturn the ruling

Bloody Apple...why don`t they just create great products instead of suing competitors. Stupid American thinking - if you can`t beat your competitor, sue him.
But no to worry - Google reported that every day there are 550 000 Android devices activated.

I cannot believe that Apple is actually trying to claim that they invented SCROLLING and TOUCH SCREENS. And all this as they're blatantly copying Android's notifications for iOS 5. I hope Google sues the living **** out of them.
This company is the very definition of scum.

I don't like Apple at all
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App

When your own pool of innovation has run dry, sue the other guy for having a bigger pool
Steve Jobs fostered this sort of thinking by Apple back in the garage days, and although they have found ways over the years to manipulate their groupthink disciples and the non-techie commonman into believing that they have changed, it's never really been any different. Small wonder, since Microsoft and Apple basically created each other, and forged their own business personas together... an endless game of backstabbing between two foul companies, whilst at the same time they attempt to destroy anyone else in the middle.
Companies like Microsoft and Apple make me wish that anti-trust investigations were more centered around *groups* of corporations, rather than simply individual ones. A lot more of the real dirt going on in the tech markets would maybe get scrubbed off of the floor, so to speak

Samsung in EU antitrust probe.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2142572/samsung-european-antitrust-probe
"The European Commission has opened a formal investigation to assess whether Samsung Electronics has abusively, and in contravention of a commitment it gave to the European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI), used certain of its standard essential patent rights to distort competition in European mobile device markets, in breach of EU antitrust rules," it said.
The EC said it will look to find out whether Samsung has been licensing patents on "fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory (FRAND) terms"
No more proof needed that the EU are completely bonkers! It's funny how Apple are never under investigation. Everyone else is a target but never them. I wonder how much money they are paying EU MEP's to keep themselves out of trouble?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...EU-competition-probe-over-Apple-lawsuits.html
Says apple instigated the probe. According to a patent expert the patents involved are not covered by frand and so apples claim is pointless.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

Maybe I missed read but where does it say that?

htcplussony said:
Maybe I missed read but where does it say that?
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Near the end it says the patents involved in the lawsuit between apple and samsung are not covered by frand and that because the eu probe is into those patents as they relate to frand this also means the probe can't find they are against frand when they aren't connected to it.
I'm paraphrasing but if the patents are not in violation of frand because they are not part of it the probe looking into whether said patents violate it can't find that they are.
Apple are just doing all they can in hopes samsung give up it seems.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

But it doesn't say that at all.

I must agree with earlier post, it's amazing Apple hasn't been sued for monopolistic practices. They use their own proprietary formats for everything, even headphones. It's why I never bought into i-life, it just wont plug into or play nice with any of the standards in my-life. Everyone should use the same open standards, not lock it all up so you have to buy everything from them, or from their online store, I mean that's the true definition of a monopoly right there. Truly amazing how many people bought into apples products...
*edit: Dont get me wrong, a Mac is a hell of a machine.. I'm referring strictly to their UNopen (totally proprietary) design practices.

A patent "expert?" No such thing. Patent laws are so screwed that they can be interpreted any which of a 1,000 ways.
Anyway. Nothing will come of this. It's a desperate ploy to try and delay the inevitable lawsuit losses that are coming to Apple.

htcplussony said:
But it doesn't say that at all.
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Your right, my apologies but I misread the paragraph where it said apples patents were not covered by frand and somehow seem to have swapped samsung and apple in that sentence.
It actually says samsung has to abide by frand but for whatever reason apples patents don't.
Which seems unfair.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

Google finally has some Ammo in the Lawsuit Battles

http://www.talkandroid.com/91827-go...ion-pull-down-bar-still-pending/#.Tz8Ts-ywVz3
Saw this posted over on Droidforums. With everything that Apple has sued over, Google has not had the means to return the favor as it has not done much in the way of patenting things that seem intuitive, or have they? Seems they filed a patent for a notification tab all the way back in '09, just hasn't been approved yet. Looks like iOS 5 may pay for so blatantly ripping off Android after all the whining about things that Android has supposedly "stolen" from Apple. Guess we'll see what comes of this.

Once Motorola merger completes GOOG will be in much better position to protect itself from the nonsense patent lawsuits. Motorola patents would be a deterrent to Apple.

I hope Google rips Apple.

akashvani said:
Once Motorola merger completes GOOG will be in much better position to protect itself from the nonsense patent lawsuits. Motorola patents would be a deterrent to Apple.
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Yup, Motorolla has been making mobile phones/mobile communication since 1928, so you bet they have MANY patents that relate to how a mobile phone works.

adelmundo said:
Yup, Motorolla has been making mobile phones/mobile communication since 1928, so you bet they have MANY patents that relate to how a mobile phone works.
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They do but in europe that means they are legally obliged to allow others to use those patents as without them no others could make phones. Its called frand and there must be equivalent rule in usa and other countries.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

mistermentality said:
They do but in europe that means they are legally obliged to allow others to use those patents as without them no others could make phones. Its called frand and there must be equivalent rule in usa and other countries.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
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The patent holder has to agree they are covered by FRAND, normally in order for products to be made and sold, or in order to match the requirement of a standard (ie a consortium agrees a new standard, then manufacturers set out to be the first to make the technology to fit the standard).
For instance if Motorola came up with a new technology that would give 10 days battery life and 1Gbps connection but didn't release that as FRAND, mobile equipment manufacturers (tower makers etc) would find it very difficult to make equipment to use that technology so Motorola can then sell phones that use it.
What happened with the Apple FRAND 3G issue is they didn't bother to make any payments so "stole" the technology. Now they've been caught out and told they must pay, they're objecting to being penalised for stealing, which is why they're trying to put pressure on the patent system to have the rules changed in their favour.
There are plenty of other patents which don't come under FRAND, the push email that Apple have infringed for instance.

I hope google gets his patent and goes to apple "Well we have a core feature of your OS on all your devices patented, we won't use this patent against you and force you to change your whole OS as long as you leave us, and the other handset makers alone"

xaccers said:
The patent holder has to agree they are covered by FRAND, normally in order for products to be made and sold, or in order to match the requirement of a standard (ie a consortium agrees a new standard, then manufacturers set out to be the first to make the technology to fit the standard).
For instance if Motorola came up with a new technology that would give 10 days battery life and 1Gbps connection but didn't release that as FRAND, mobile equipment manufacturers (tower makers etc) would find it very difficult to make equipment to use that technology so Motorola can then sell phones that use it.
What happened with the Apple FRAND 3G issue is they didn't bother to make any payments so "stole" the technology. Now they've been caught out and told they must pay, they're objecting to being penalised for stealing, which is why they're trying to put pressure on the patent system to have the rules changed in their favour.
There are plenty of other patents which don't come under FRAND, the push email that Apple have infringed for instance.
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I was under the impression from the patents blog that certain essential patents have to be licenced as otherwise the patent holder is stifling competition.
Apple did get caught not paying and got away with it by apparently saying they would make a new licence fee offer to motorola. This got the injunction lifted but their new offer was still less than motorola wanted as it was a clever but effective way to lift the iphone ban.
Apples attitude is "we are apple, do what we say or you will be litigated out of existence". And with such deep pockets no one can stop them because the world belongs to the lawyers.
There is no way even a big hundred million dollar company could afford to battle apple because sooner or later it comes down to who can pay their lawyers the longest and that's always going to be the richest company.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk

mistermentality said:
I was under the impression from the patents blog that certain essential patents have to be licenced as otherwise the patent holder is stifling competition.
Apple did get caught not paying and got away with it by apparently saying they would make a new licence fee offer to motorola. This got the injunction lifted but their new offer was still less than motorola wanted as it was a clever but effective way to lift the iphone ban.
Apples attitude is "we are apple, do what we say or you will be litigated out of existence". And with such deep pockets no one can stop them because the world belongs to the lawyers.
There is no way even a big hundred million dollar company could afford to battle apple because sooner or later it comes down to who can pay their lawyers the longest and that's always going to be the richest company.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
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Yes in this case the patent is part of the 3G standard, so the 3G consortium agreed on the 3G standard and either tasked them with creating the technology to meet the standard or they were the the first/best of the bunch of companies that tried to make the technology to meet the standard. Had they not agreed to FRAND then another technology method would have been given the status as part of the 3G standard.
Remember the issues with different dial up modem technologies until one was picked as the standard? Oh fun times those were

http://www.bgr.in/manufacturers/app...ttempts-to-dodge-apple’s-slide-unlock-patent/
Another patent article, though what I found interesting is the mentioned-in-passing patent that Google has filed for Voice Recognition unlocking and possibly Face Recognition unlocking. Looks like Apple will have to pay licensing fees in the future or be left in the dust.
I'm hoping Google also beats them to the punch on fingerprint unlocking. Sucks that manufacturers and developers have to patent every damn little thing now though.

mistermentality said:
I was under the impression from the patents blog that certain essential patents have to be licenced as otherwise the patent holder is stifling competition.
Apple did get caught not paying and got away with it by apparently saying they would make a new licence fee offer to motorola. This got the injunction lifted but their new offer was still less than motorola wanted as it was a clever but effective way to lift the iphone ban.
Apples attitude is "we are apple, do what we say or you will be litigated out of existence". And with such deep pockets no one can stop them because the world belongs to the lawyers.
There is no way even a big hundred million dollar company could afford to battle apple because sooner or later it comes down to who can pay their lawyers the longest and that's always going to be the richest company.
Dave
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk
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Dave
Msft used to think they are above the law because of their deep pockets. Time will tell how long Appl will remain the big bully without paying for its crimes.
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Aun no puedo entrar, ...

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/16/google-files-patent-app-for-unlocking-devices-says-we-dont-nee/
And a little more

Justice - is just around the corner | Thanks to UK High Court

UK High Court rules three Apple patents invalid, vindicates HTC
...declared three of the four Apple patents invalid. The patents in question are applicable solely within the European Union, and are focused on slide-to-unlock, multitouch, and the handling of foreign language text input.
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via: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/4/3136922/apple-htc-uk-high-court-patents-invalid

Good, now if only the US would do the same and get rid of these patents that never should have been allowed in the first place.
Slide to unlock has been around in analog form as a door sliding bolt, something that is so old its likely all patents have expired. But since its via software it was allowed to be patented even though its centuries old in the real world.
Multi touch has been in concept since the 1970s, the iPhone may be one of the first mainstream implementations but that technology is too vague to patent and then restrict others from using.

If only Google copped on and cut off ALL Google services on iDevices, that means no YouTube for 12 y/o iTouch users...lol
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk 2

Apple is sueing anything and everything that has to be booted on.
Yes im happy that HtC won, but just because Uk courts said 3 didnt count doesnt mean it applies to germany and the U.s. Apple has lawsuits with Samsung in four different countries, Htc in like 3 and Google's newly owned Motorola Mobility.
The day we have Justice is when Apple goes bankrupt from being sued by google.
Apple set the standards and patent their stuff but now they dont have any non used ideas so they are crying and trying to sue.
Best way to put it. Hotdog competition.
Apple set the standard by eating 50 hotdogs in 2 mins by eating two at a time.
Now Samsung And others ate 52 in two mins by using apple's technique of two at a time but also dipping it in water to go down faster and Apple is complaining to the ref trying to get them D.Q.
Side note. Apple is going after the makers of the android phones when its software patent they are suing after. They will stop once google steps in and says "You want some of this"?

Apple Website to Declare: "SAMSUNG didn't Copy iPad"

I was just surfing on the net when I stumbled on this:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...sung-didnt-copy-iPad/articleshow/15041407.cms
What was written there:
A judge has ordered*Apple*to put up a statement on its website declaring thatSamsung*did not infringe upon the iPad's design.
This directive was announced by Judge Colin Brass, who presided over the case between the two companies in the UK. He has also told Apple to publish the same message in newspapers and magazines in Britain in order to negate the bad impression that the masses may have regarding the South Korean company's tablets due to its claims.
*This order means that Apple will, in a way, advertise Samsung's tablets, that too on its own website !
However, Judge Briss shot down
Samsung's request to bar Apple from further claiming that its tablet copied the iPad's design. On this, he said, "They are entitled to their opinion."*After the ruling, Samsung published a statement, saying, "Should Apple continue to make excessive legal claims based on such generic designs, innovation in the industry could be harmed and consumer choice unduly limited."*Apple is yet to make a comment on the recent developments in the case.*Previously, Judge Briss had passed the judgement in the South Korean company's favour, ruling, "They do not have the same understated and extreme simplicity which is possessed by the Apple design. They are not as cool," he said. "The overall impression produced is different."
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Looks like Apple is going to have a hard time from now !
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