Related
This will be the start of a hopefully short lived thread as I only intend to use it to post my findings about the affects of a lagfix. Alright if you are going to come in here to start a flame war about how you know it works or doesn't work just "because" do not even post just leave now! if you have actual measurable data or intelligent input then please contribute.
So a lot of folks state that the advantage lagfix has for them is general responsiveness of applications like touchdown or the market or even jsut opening speedtest.net app. I already no that the direct read/write speed to the FS where the OS resides shows the Captivate much faster than the Nexus one and there is no general feeling that the N1 needs any lagfix. So we can not measure any advantage of a lagfix just by testing the read/write speed of the FS. what then? if it's application responsiveness that is the difference then we have to create environment in the form of a measurable benchmark. So right now I have a ver VERY comprehensive I/O bench script running. it creates an application level benchmark environment where several to many processes are each running various mixed mode I/O streams (read/write/cache) doing this with the exact same standards on a non-lagfix FS and a lagfix FS will show even the smallest most tiny variations in the different types of I/O. it will let us know if perhaps there is a certain type of stream (buffer size, block size, file size) that a lagfix might be improving upon. once the results finish here in about half an hour I will sift through the results, build a graph then post it! I am in no way on one side or the other of a lagfix, I have used both and would rather keep my opinion to my self right now. check back later today for results. I welcome all constructive input/ideas/do it better benchmark (currently 1429 Hawaii standard time)
This is also a question that came in to my head before installing a lag fix.
Well i notice some lags in a stock non-lag fixed captivate. Examples are in games like asphalt (when you win/lose a race) and in N.O.V.A. (progress save) and sometimes in google search widget (when you tap on the text bar, a little sec before the virtual keyboard appear).
I thought that these are just bugs on software or the app itself, but everything is gone when i install lag fix. Yes there are still lags but not as much as before.
This is awesome, can't wait to read it. Are you considering releasing the batch script so others can attempt to contribute?
Already got moved but it doesn't matter. I for one can not wait to see your results cruiser. If you do decide you want to let someone else try your benchmark I'll gladly run it as well.
phishie said:
This is awesome, can't wait to read it. Are you considering releasing the batch script so others can attempt to contribute?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely! I take no credit for these tools and credit will be given where due once the graph is up. I only wrote a script to create the benching environment I wanted. using these tools you can write a very comprehensive script to create the benching environment you want/need for the specific aspect that is being benched. these tools don't just test hardware as hardware is nothing without great software. so using the application level software components to perform these benches and bouncing them off the hardware benches you can see what areas of the software environment are choking what part of the systems performance and vice the versa.
There are a few different lagfixes out there - so don't leave any out. Also, some attack one partition, others attack more then one (/dbdata) - so you need to take this into account. Also Touchdown, and i believe stock email app, benefit because they store data on dbdata in a database - so database throughput should be part of the equation.
Benchmarks are nice, but i have tried with and without and see the difference deleting emails using the stock client. That being said, I rolled back to stock because one-click odin does a poor job of reformatting everything - I don't want to get stuck with an EXT4 filesystem and stock kernel with no way to go.
I found with 2.2 it is way faster than 2.1. But 2.1 with any lag fix is still faster. Now you could run 2.2 with no lag fix and it's definetly fast enough but with a lag fix it's amazing. It's like buying a 300hp sports car then the sales guy asks you if you want the 400hp model for a free upgrade and it gets the same gas milage and you saying no because 300hp is plenty to get you around town. If theres even a chance a lag fix makes a difference why not do it, it's not gonna make it any slower thats for sure.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897
Just my 2 cents, I do think that lag fix will give you better performance with certain apps however, it is not that significant and with Froyo, I had problems with apps force closing and battery drain (probably from all the background crashes) with it enabled. I do not think it is needed and may cause more problems than it is worth. Maybe later once the official Froyo is out for a while and the lag fix apps are improved, it may be worth another look. But for now, I do not think it is worth it. But your mileage may vary and if you think your phone is too slow without it, you may have some other underlying issue that needs more attention than trying to fix it with a lag fix.
Duty calls, this is taking longer than I anticipated so I'll still be running this on different file systems tomorrow after work. very interesting results so far though! Spoiler alert! there are obvious gains from database read/writes, only milliseconds but I suppose that counts when it comes to responsiveness of certain programs.
I can't wait to see the results.
I wanted to say that I am interested in what you are trying to do here and appreciate the time you are putting into making this an unbiased effort at answering this question.
I also wanted to provide you with my own real world experience based on three different captivates all presently using cognition 2.2b5.5...until later tonight...lol
I have never installed a lag fix on two of the phones (my wife and duaghter's) and held off on reinstalling the ext lagfix on mine again until yesterday as I wanted to see if it would benefit the performance prior to updating again to beta6
On the phones that my wife and daughter use, I can see where the lagfix is not necessary and they don't complain about any hangups. However, on mine I definitely see a performance improvement with the lagfix installed and i am quite sure that the reason is I am addicted to widgets almost as bad as flashing and I cannot seem to get away from them. After installing the lagfix I do not get the occasional "freezes" that occurred without it and music never skips when opening other apps.
Also, all three phones are running launcher pro, using at least a few widgets, such as friends, messaging, weather, etc. Not sure how you would reflect this in your testing but I do see a difference here though I would love, and certainly tried, to not use the lagfix.
It seems people have gotten bored of this issue. I will say this:
When I ODINed directly from 2.2Beta2 to 2.2Beta5.5, lag was undeniably horrible and OCLF made a huge difference.
When I master-cleared 5.5, ODINed to stock 2.1, then ODINed to 2.2Beta6, everything became zippy fast again without any lagfix. I'm afraid to even try to put OCLF on there now.
Anyone experiencing lag when others say they shouldnt: go through most or all of the steps I laid out for battery drain. Quirks abound, and your lag and lagfix situation could be an indirect side-effect, and not a direct result, of the ROM you've flashed to.
I agree. Some of the claims are down right odd about lag issues so I too feel a lot has to do with "left overs".
My Experiences
i didn't install the lag fix because of the horror stories in the forums about applying an update and having to roll everything back. Normally it's not so bad but I've noticed some of the behavior mentioned. Are these issues addressed in the Froyo leaks (hopefully official) or will these always be a problem.
-Load time of games (using Asphalt 5 and comparing the load times to an IP4 running the same game). The Captivate load times were very slow.
-The appearance of freezing when you win / lose a race in Asphalt 5?
It may not be a fair comparison for load times but it's obvious signs something is wrong when I'm trying to brag to my friends about how my phone is better then theres
The biggest issue I have is with the music stuttering though. I listen to music at work (normally the 13GB data partition is full of music) and the email client is running in the background. The music stutters A LOT when it's downloading the emails. Is this issue no longer a problem in Froyo?
Hopefully this settles it.
Here's a vid I made. I don't know how to split-screen, but I think this makes the point regardless.
I master cleared, then stock 2.1, then Cog 2.2B6. I didn't restore any backups, all fresh installs and configs.
When I ODINed directly from Beta3 to Beta6, the lag was horrible. Doing a master clear, stock, to 6 was much better. But even then, as seen below, there is blatantly noticeable lag. That only leads me to believe that the issue relates to something like fragmentation, and that if people used beta6 for a few weeks without a lagfix, they'll end up with really bad lag too.
For the record, I doubt any of this has much to do with DG's work. I don't think DG is responsible for lag. DG is only responsible for giving us awesome alternatives to choose from when we don't like what the factory gave us and we're willing to take the risk. However, the lag is not a placebo, and your benchmarks are deceiving you.
I picked Touchdown because it was an easily reproduced example, but I notice a difference all over.
The stopwatch is to add legitimacy. The iPhone, to add irony. There's a glass of beer off-camera you can't see, but it's responsible for most of the background noise.
Alright folks!
Those of us in the Military know how your work schedule can tends to change randomly causing you to change your plans a lot. Anyway as I don't see myself with the free time to spend making a cool but not very practical PowerPoint right now I am going to tell ya'll what I found and post the DHT tools so you can play around with it yourselves.
First to those who wish to try the tools, read the vague overview file in there it's as good as it gets as far as information from DHT. you HAVE to run the IO bench several time in both read, write ADN mixed modes. Make sure you run each mode a few times specifying different files sizes block sizes AND numbers of IO streams! each specific setup should be run 5 times and averaged, if run in each set is 5% or more from the rest it should be scrapped and run again. NOTE: some modes require you to have already deployed a file or DB to run the test on!
Alright so I found the difference in every area except one to be non-substantial! and by that I mean 5%+/- (within the considered error margin)
I ONLY HAVE HAD THE TIME TO TEST OCLF! all benches were run on Cognition 2.2B5.5.
When you start getting more than TWO IO streams you start to see a substantial difference in the DB IO streams. in my last run in mixed mode multi-stream bench of 5 runs (all within the acceptable margin) it showed a 19% increase in throughput over the stock FS! I know that doesn't sound like a lot but milliseconds count when it means the responsiveness of an application! One thing I did not do which I wont get to for a while is look into how many IO streams are running and in what modes while running some common applications! this could give us an idea of what kind of bench environment to set up and perhaps give us a base (just for information sake) % throughput increase with a certain FS. just to give you an idea (I am sure most people already know this but wth) of what types of application might take advantage of an increased IO throughput on DB read/writes. A lot more applications do DB IO streams than you might think, some email applications/exchange contact syncs, even some system settings are stored in DB anyways I say it's up to the person! I wont personally use a FS patch "lagfix" until A at least as stable as the current COG2.2B6 Voodoo kernel is done for the captivate. I don't feel like messing with the loopback stuff and whatnot, I can live with it like it is as I don't feel it's bad enough to HAVE to have one, but again everyone is different! However when Voodoo comes standard in a good ROM like COG I say what the hell~! even if it's only 10% gain and only in certain situations! if it's stable and cooked in then it can't hurt me right! ok enough now hope you guys can figure out the tools well enough. it is clear that no matter what anyone says it is factual that no matter how small in SOME situations/applications there IS an IO throughput gain when using OCLF and I am sure any other EXTx FS. weather or not the gain % is worth the possible side effects, well like everyone keeps saying (well almost everyone, some do just cry "MUST HAVE IT") that's up to you!
Ok great video mate.
I also noticed one HUGE lag difference which now made me a believer.
I use Launcher Pro and when adding applications to the lower scrolling bar there was always lag the first time accessing the applications.
I timed it at 17 seconds without lag fix and no delay with lag fix...that is BIG!
That was one of my bigger lag issues too...lp seeming to freeze but after finally giving up on touchwiz a while ago and removing it I have been able to get by without the lagfix though I am probably going to use one again as soon as voodoo is available for 2.2
Posted from my phone using some technology I don't understand
shaolin95 said:
Ok great video mate.
I also noticed one HUGE lag difference which now made me a believer.
I use Launcher Pro and when adding applications to the lower scrolling bar there was always lag the first time accessing the applications.
I timed it at 17 seconds without lag fix and no delay with lag fix...that is BIG!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I originally intended to include a few other tests in the video:
* Adding an app shortcut
* Opening the app drawer
* fast scrolling through the 3D app drawer and some widget-heavy home screens
* boot times (particularly initializing widgets on the home screen)
However, in prepping for the video (and most particularly after removing TW), I determined that I could not reproduce the lag effect as consistently in any of the above. I've definitely seen what you describe, and noticed lag differences OCLF vs. not OCLF in all of the above, but I've also ran some tests where I couldn't reproduce it. Touchdown was one of the easiest to demo and that never fails to present an obvious difference.
My current theory is that while Froyo has performance tweaks, a lot of the reason people think there is no need for lagfix anymore is because more people were master-clearing and flashing stock before flashing Cog betas. This gives you a clean slate on your fs, with little chance of fragmentation or other inefficiencies that crop up in a well-used file table. Like I said, flashing without going stock or master-clearing, or restoring lots of backups afterwards, seem to be what bring back the lag. A well-managed cache like you get with a lagfix helps that a lot. I still say that even those who claim to see no lag, if they put some heavy use and load some heavy databases and throw some I/Os at them, then over time they will see more and more of the same lag others see. I don't know that for sure, but I do know for sure what you can see in the video. And that's on a recent setup of master-clear, stock, beta, and no backup restores whatseover.
This probably in the wrong section, but I recently purchased the captivate through an upgrade, and read about and installed the lagfix. Yes it did speed up my phone considerably. My quadrant score was about 2386. I was pretty damn impressed. But then I wanted to go back to stock, and just did a factory reset. I don't think the lagfix is installed anymore. But I just want to know if I didn't hurt my device by doing so. Thanks
I have a question about Wp7 lack of multitasking. Do you mean its not possible for example to listen to internet radio using a third party app and browse the xda forums at the same time, for example?
Thanks for the clarification.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
i havent heard much about the multitasking.... sorry
That's right. The only thing that runs in the background that i'm aware of is the Zune music player (which has a radio if you want). I haven't found anything else.
sammy_user said:
I have a question about Wp7 lack of multitasking. Do you mean its not possible for example to listen to internet radio using a third party app and browse the xda forums at the same time, for example?
Thanks for the clarification.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct. Neither can you use it for GPS navigation while surfing the web or speaking on the phone. Your milage may vary as to how much it affects you though.
Well you can do things while calling so at least this is good.
Yes, multitasking is very limited to wp7. I am sure they might add a few features to it so that we don't feel completely controlled.
also the other noticeable thing is the web browser being able to multi task. for example, you can download a large file, and go off and do something else, and it will keep downloading.
For crying out loud! Please stop calling background scheduling for multitasking! Multitasking is, always has been, and always will be, the ability to do more than one thing. WP7 can multitask just fine, and so can apps. Period. They can.
What you're asking about is something completely different, and you're even contradicting yourself. As some of the native apps, and some made by OEMs, can run in the background, there's no doubt about the OS supporting background scheduling. It's there.
What's actually happening is that MS is protecting us from lousy programmers by not letting most programs run in the background. There's mostly no use for it anyway, unless you want some lousy piece of s.... software eating up your battery, devouring your data plan.
Hell, if you want to, I'll be glad to write a program that will fill up the file storage, using battery like crazy and even using way more data than you can afford. Only down side is that it won't run in the background to f.... up the performance of your other apps.
emigrating said:
Correct. Neither can you use it for GPS navigation while surfing the web or speaking on the phone. Your milage may vary as to how much it affects you though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? Am I missing something? Why would you need to use the GPS while you are surfing the web?
From my experience it goes like this: surfing the web->home button->maps[back to home][back to explorer]...and just like that you are back to exactly back to where you were having done MULTIple TASKs at once ; )
tiwas said:
For crying out loud! Please stop calling background scheduling for multitasking! Multitasking is, always has been, and always will be, the ability to do more than one thing. WP7 can multitask just fine, and so can apps. Period. They can.
What you're asking about is something completely different, and you're even contradicting yourself. As some of the native apps, and some made by OEMs, can run in the background, there's no doubt about the OS supporting background scheduling. It's there.
What's actually happening is that MS is protecting us from lousy programmers by not letting most programs run in the background. There's mostly no use for it anyway, unless you want some lousy piece of s.... software eating up your battery, devouring your data plan.
Hell, if you want to, I'll be glad to write a program that will fill up the file storage, using battery like crazy and even using way more data than you can afford. Only down side is that it won't run in the background to f.... up the performance of your other apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me one app that can multitask please?! and by app I mean any third-party or OEM addon to the core OS.
Sure, on WM and Android there is/was a mantra that everything should run in the background - always. But that's not to say that multitasking is evil, it's not. It just needs to be controlled.
Microsoft could quite easily have allowed third-party apps to multitask (or at least register a small service running in the background) if your app needed it - they have "technical exceptions" when submitting to the marketplace, this would be a great opportunity for you to describe why your app needed real multitasking and it would be up to the testers to [dis]agree.
premiumdude said:
Huh? Am I missing something? Why would you need to use the GPS while you are surfing the web?
From my experience it goes like this: surfing the web->home button->maps[back to home][back to explorer]...and just like that you are back to exactly back to where you were having done MULTIple TASKs at once ; )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was just an example, although it's something that's bugged me more than once. But okay, I'll agree it isn't the most common scenario. How about this instead, you're driving along using Navigon and you want to change your tunes, so you press home, then zune, find an artist/album and press play, go back home and then back to the satnav app only to discover you've missed a turn because it didn't tell you you needed to turn off the turnpike at the last exit. Now you're stuck driving another xx miles to get back to where you need to be.
If you don't drive, perhaps you map your morning runs using a GPS tracker. So you're on your way and the phone rings. Since you've got a headset you continue running while talking only to have your entire statistics screwed up because the phone stopped tracking you while on the phone.
Or even better, you're using some third-party app to sync your Hotmail or Exchange tasks to your phone. Problem is, the app cannot multitask so it will never notify you of [over]due tasks unless you constantly keep the app open...
While I definitely agree you don't need your RSS reader or Angry Birds clone running in the background, all the time, there are scenarios where real multitasking is important.
emigrating said:
That was just an example, although it's something that's bugged me more than once. But okay, I'll agree it isn't the most common scenario. How about this instead, you're driving along using Navigon and you want to change your tunes, so you press home, then zune, find an artist/album and press play, go back home and then back to the satnav app only to discover you've missed a turn because it didn't tell you you needed to turn off the turnpike at the last exit. Now you're stuck driving another xx miles to get back to where you need to be.
If you don't drive, perhaps you map your morning runs using a GPS tracker. So you're on your way and the phone rings. Since you've got a headset you continue running while talking only to have your entire statistics screwed up because the phone stopped tracking you while on the phone.
Or even better, you're using some third-party app to sync your Hotmail or Exchange tasks to your phone. Problem is, the app cannot multitask so it will never notify you of [over]due tasks unless you constantly keep the app open...
While I definitely agree you don't need your RSS reader or Angry Birds clone running in the background, all the time, there are scenarios where real multitasking is important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wholeheartedly agree. Excellent examples. Was able to put myself in those scenarios and see how important deep multitasking is. Thank you for helping me see that.
tiwas said:
For crying out loud! Please stop calling background scheduling for multitasking! Multitasking is, always has been, and always will be, the ability to do more than one thing. WP7 can multitask just fine, and so can apps. Period. They can.
What you're asking about is something completely different, and you're even contradicting yourself. As some of the native apps, and some made by OEMs, can run in the background, there's no doubt about the OS supporting background scheduling. It's there.
What's actually happening is that MS is protecting us from lousy programmers by not letting most programs run in the background. There's mostly no use for it anyway, unless you want some lousy piece of s.... software eating up your battery, devouring your data plan.
Hell, if you want to, I'll be glad to write a program that will fill up the file storage, using battery like crazy and even using way more data than you can afford. Only down side is that it won't run in the background to f.... up the performance of your other apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it cannot multi-task anything besides Zune, therefore, I guess technically you could say that it can multi-task like .1% of all the apps available.
MartyLK said:
Wholeheartedly agree. Excellent examples. Was able to put myself in those scenarios and see how important deep multitasking is. Thank you for helping me see that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol,
I think it's as simple as like with Android I can have google maps open and have turn-by-turn open in the background, so the british lady still gives me audio directions while I play Angry Birds or surf the web (as a passenger in a car) like going to a party or something.
Also let's say I'm at the gym and want to use Pandora (which WP7 doesn't even have or I sure as hell can't find it in the app store) in the background while im texting/emailing between bench sets, just simple **** like that I wish WP7 could do.
It's not life or death but it is the reason I use Android more than WP7 on my HD2, although I do like WP7 more at times as well, but it sure as hell can't multi-task for any practical purpose.
orangekid said:
lol,
I think it's as simple as like with Android I can have google maps open and have turn-by-turn open in the background, so the british lady still gives me audio directions while I play Angry Birds or surf the web (as a passenger in a car) like going to a party or something.
Also let's say I'm at the gym and want to use Pandora (which WP7 doesn't even have or I sure as hell can't find it in the app store) in the background while im texting/emailing between bench sets, just simple **** like that I wish WP7 could do.
It's not life or death but it is the reason I use Android more than WP7 on my HD2, although I do like WP7 more at times as well, but it sure as hell can't multi-task for any practical purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear ya there. I keep the sim card in my HD2...running Android...for purposes of using TbT voice nav and other things WP7 doesn't give me.
MartyLK said:
I hear ya there. I keep the sim card in my HD2...running Android...for purposes of using TbT voice nav and other things WP7 doesn't give me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly.
I'm glad I've got dual-boot rocking on my HD2, as much as I do like WP7, I don't think I could use it as a daily without being able to restart the phone and load up android whenever I want to, maybe when the OS is more matured and actually CAN multi-task and offer more of the apps I like.
Somebody needs to just make something like the jailbroken iphone app backgrounder that lets you choose what multitasks. It worked fine back before apple had "fast app switching"
Anthonok said:
Somebody needs to just make something like the jailbroken iphone app backgrounder that lets you choose what multitasks. It worked fine back before apple had "fast app switching"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's true. I used backgrounder + Proswitcher forever before iOS4 came out and it worked great, smooth, and had awesome palm pre-like task switching, and you could background any app, it really didn't hurt battery life much at all. I would love to see this on WP7 if it could be implemented till MS gets their act together.
kinda like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMAVyaNQdnw
orangekid said:
that's true. I used backgrounder + Proswitcher forever before iOS4 came out and it worked great, smooth, and had awesome palm pre-like task switching, and you could background any app, it really didn't hurt battery life much at all. I would love to see this on WP7 if it could be implemented till MS gets their act together.
kinda like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMAVyaNQdnw
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep it was great. I coudlnt live without it. Also this way only people with unlocked phones (thus meaning they more than likely have knowledge of how things work) will be using this and shouldnt complain if there device gets slow or anything. They would know the consequences.
Anthonok said:
Yep it was great. I coudlnt live without it. Also this way only people with unlocked phones (thus meaning they more than likely have knowledge of how things work) will be using this and shouldnt complain if there device gets slow or anything. They would know the consequences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well if the 3GS can handle it so well on a 600mhz processor and 256mb ram, I'm sure a WP7 device with 1ghz and 576mb ram could handle it just fine with no slow-downs.
tiwas said:
For crying out loud! Please stop calling background scheduling for multitasking! Multitasking is, always has been, and always will be, the ability to do more than one thing. WP7 can multitask just fine, and so can apps. Period. They can.
What you're asking about is something completely different, and you're even contradicting yourself. As some of the native apps, and some made by OEMs, can run in the background, there's no doubt about the OS supporting background scheduling. It's there.
What's actually happening is that MS is protecting us from lousy programmers by not letting most programs run in the background. There's mostly no use for it anyway, unless you want some lousy piece of s.... software eating up your battery, devouring your data plan.
Hell, if you want to, I'll be glad to write a program that will fill up the file storage, using battery like crazy and even using way more data than you can afford. Only down side is that it won't run in the background to f.... up the performance of your other apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen your post history and, no offense, but you're starting to remind me of the fanboys at MacRumors, thinking that their phones are perfect until Apple changes one thing. Then suddenly it is revolutionary and intuitive.
Multitasking would greatly benefit WP7. Live with it. Apps don't even run under lock properly. But I'd like to be able to run a music app and surf at the same time. Want a gimped experience? Fine with me. Just don't go whining when people want to make the most out of their experience with their phones.
As a new Asus Transformer owner and first time Android Market customer I have to say that I am utterly disappointed with the current state of the Android Market. The android market ap is a joke. The website is a little better, but desperately needs a better way to filer aps by tablet/non-tablet or hd/sd aps.
There is no legitimate reason that the market couldn't have a specific section dedicated solely to tablets. Or at least better filter/sort functions that allow you to filter in a more effective way. I was going to post a list of what is bad about the marketplace, but there is just too much. I'm sure that everyone who owns a honeycomb tablet is well familiar with the problem(s) by now. Anyway, just wanted to vent. /rant
Use appbrain (google it), it's much nicer and lets you filter your search.
see here for compatible tablet apps: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1032381
el_brio said:
As a new Asus Transformer owner and first time Android Market customer I have to say that I am utterly disappointed with the current state of the Android Market. The android market ap is a joke. The website is a little better, but desperately needs a better way to filer aps by tablet/non-tablet or hd/sd aps.
There is no legitimate reason that the market couldn't have a specific section dedicated solely to tablets. Or at least better filter/sort functions that allow you to filter in a more effective way. I was going to post a list of what is bad about the marketplace, but there is just too much. I'm sure that everyone who owns a honeycomb tablet is well familiar with the problem(s) by now. Anyway, just wanted to vent. /rant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There actually sholdnt be a tabletsection at all. If a dev programs oroperly their app will work fine on any size screen. Thats the benefit of the way the xml layout in the sdk work. Locations all become relative. You say x is next to y andbelow z. Then let the device sort it out.
crater said:
There actually sholdnt be a tabletsection at all. If a dev programs oroperly their app will work fine on any size screen. Thats the benefit of the way the xml layout in the sdk work. Locations all become relative. You say x is next to y andbelow z. Then let the device sort it out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not necessarily true, especially as Honeycomb introduces new layout elements that many app developers want to and should take advantage of to make their apps more tablet friendly. It might still all end up in the same APK in the end, but the developer still should do some tablet specific work to make it more user friendly. It would still be nice to know which APKs have been "tablet-optimized".
They do have a "Featured Tablet Apps" section, which as far as I can tell is just a list of all/most of the APKs that have been optimized for tablets.
I thought some of these issues were fixed with 3.1 according to xoom owners.
I think it's because they don't want people to see how few apps there are optimised for tablets.
case0 said:
I think it's because they don't want people to see how few apps there are optimised for tablets.
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+1 internets
I agree
There should be a tablet filter. Even amazon apps suck at it. I download some apps and it FC on me.
You say all apps should work on tablet? Well that's not the case for many apps so there should be some kind of distinction. But, I hear some problems will be fixed in 3.1.
The pop down add won't be popping down anymore, it will just be there when you open it up, more catagories, and when you view an app and go back, it suppose to remember your location.
Be nice to be able to add reviews, but I didn't hear anything about that.
as a poor uesr from china pr
i need an app like market access lol
No no no... there is nothing about an Android app that says "I'm a tablet app" unless it just happens to be written for _only_ the Gingerbread API level (and that will be false the second the next version of Android comes out) which is pretty bad practice.
Using 3.0 classes is possible via reflection while remaining compatible back to 1.6, given that you can have a specific layout for x-large screens you can use 3.0 layout elements there even if your app targets a lower API level. Fragments are available all the way back to 1.6 now.
There is no "Tablet version" switch to detect, nor should there be.
It is up to the devs themselves to support the use cases they want to target, not specific devices, with freedom comes responsibility.
there should't be a tablet filter..android is different from iOS in terms of the layout design and ideally all apps should just run just fine on hc.
I remember reading that Google were going to put extra layers/levels into the current market to provide better touch browse/navigation - which might be nice.
But I don't really have any problems with the current one and the other sites do a good job at simplifying searches anyway.
It will never please everybody, but will continue to get better I am sure.
magicpork said:
there should't be a tablet filter..android is different from iOS in terms of the layout design and ideally all apps should just run just fine on hc.
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It's not whether or not they run fine, it's whether or not they are optimized for a tablet, like the CNN app. So I agree, a filter for apps that are tablet-optimized is a must. Until then, I just rely on the Featured Tablet Apps to see if anything new has been added.
magicpork said:
there should't be a tablet filter..android is different from iOS in terms of the layout design and ideally all apps should just run just fine on hc.
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yes ideally they should, but theyre phone apps. When they do work correctly, they just stretch. Everybody makes of the ipad saying its a giant ipod touch, but the apps that are optimized for it look amazing. So yes there should be a tablet filter.
Sorry mods if i placed this in the wrong section but I just hope google reads this and fixes its faults. I want everyone reading this to post there issues or dislikes so we can enjoy this UI more while providing the best experience to us and other earthlings out there.
1. standby - I noticed the battery life is pretty good when it comes to playing movies,music and little bit of gaming but the standby is just horrid i know are phones are powerful as umpc but there should be a better way to lower consumption on sleep mode.
2. market - not really liking the new layout it needs to be more organized and less oversized.
3. multitasking - it's good obviously between switching to apps right away but sometimes i am left with too much baggage. I suggest there should be a setting to switch this option on/off.
4. scrolling - pretty good but still a little bit of lag now and then. would like the bounce when you hit the edge of the page.
5. UI - needs to be little bit more animated and lively.
6. brightness - the option to lower the level to the lowest.
7. websites - still has some bugs and glitches.
8. sdxc - running out of room here needs support of the extra capaity of sd cards.
9. apps - more quality apps. it seems like they just throw the free ones in the market without fully testing it for bugs. i have to scroll through dozens of unknown users with opinions that are just randomly unbiased.
10. standby again! - please fix this google!!! if i am left stranded from my car broken down or if i am vacationing to another then i'm screwed. I had a winmo phone did me good lasted more than a week on standby.....
It is not Google who builds the UI, its the phone manufacturer... Motoblur,thouchwiz,Sense etc, not google-builds.
To much baggage?, Try downloading and installing an app killer from market.
What other category is there to add to market btw?
Scrolling, I would think this is directly from your phone and not cause of Google...
again, try app killer to free up some ram.
-i7- said:
It is not Google who builds the UI, its the phone manufacturer... Motoblur,thouchwiz,Sense etc, not google-builds.
To much baggage?, Try downloading and installing an app killer from market.
What other category is there to add to market btw?
Scrolling, I would think this is directly from your phone and not cause of Google...
again, try app killer to free up some ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not talking about category but how the market is viewed it's all oversized block columns I prefer it to be more smaller and with more information in each block. I know there are app killers but it's better if it's official built running it would be more stabled and furthermore i hope more people will list there dislikes or changes about android and maybe google and the phone manufacturers will see this and make some fixes to there next builds. i want this thread to be seen by google from future post from xda users dislikes and hoping to change the faults....
Battery usage is my biggest complaint.
Mcds said:
5. UI - needs to be little bit more animated and lively.
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What do you mean?
Live wallpapers arent animated and lively enough for you? Do you use widgets?
hungry81 said:
What do you mean?
Live wallpapers arent animated and lively enough for you? Do you use widgets?
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usually when i compare the ebay iphone app to android it's less animated it's dull coming from someone in there thirties i can get to bored easily. don't get me wrong i'm using the 2g iphone it's smooth also laggy my 1ghz android is smooth but the phone doesn't animate i guess it depends on what apps you get also...
---------- Post added at 07:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 AM ----------
gigem01 said:
Battery usage is my biggest complaint.
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This is the answer I am looking for from all of you, what you want to change! this deserves a thanks!
Android market has one of the worst layouts..(Both in Android as well as on Website) Despite having all the resources at disposal why they are still taking time to improve the layout?(Laziness??)
message apk should be improved
Given your initial post it sounds as though WP7 may be a better OS to suit your needs.
i dont quite understand #6
"6. brightness - the option to lower the level to the lowest."
my past 2 Android phones (G2 & currently my 4G Touch) have always been able to lower the brightness all the down.
comedy said:
i dont quite understand #6
"6. brightness - the option to lower the level to the lowest."
my past 2 Android phones (G2 & currently my 4G Touch) have always been able to lower the brightness all the down.
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Click to collapse
Mcds is confusing hardware with Android. Basically he'd like the lowest brightness setting on his phone to be dimmer.
You know how the lowest brightness setting on one phone can actually be brighter than a different model, just as the highest setting can be brighter on one handset compared with a different model. It's down to the hardware, not Android.
all these things can be fixed with either a new ROM new kernel or just an app download... when it comes to android, if you know wt u doing then there is nothing that cant be fixed/tweeked to ur liking... that's the power of android my friend RECOGNIZEEEEEEEEEE
Doesn't matter what app, kernel, or rom you download. After androids attempts at emulating ios and wp7s fluid UIs they've proven, the UI just isn't going to get good. To me the UI is half of the reason I buy a phone with the other half being gaming and social integration (be it Facebook or texting) perhaps a small percentage of it is battery life but with my transition to wp7 a huge weight was lifted off of my shoulders. I realized I never wanted to dissect my phone just to increase the fps by 10, I did it because I wanted to make my mobile experience bearable. Now, I have everything I want out of the box.
Smartphones are app platforms, whatever flavour the OS is. Most of what people spend time doing on their phone, whether it be texting, gaming or emailing, is using apps. UI isn't a factor for me as i only see it for a very brief period until i launch the app i need.
If anything, it's the quality of the apps that should be compared between platforms, not the UI. Android Market could probably do with a bit more quality control, that's my own criticism really. Like for like apps on iOS are often more polished than their Android equivalent.
z33dev33l said:
Doesn't matter what app, kernel, or rom you download. After androids attempts at emulating ios and wp7s fluid UIs they've proven, the UI just isn't going to get good. To me the UI is half of the reason I buy a phone with the other half being gaming and social integration (be it Facebook or texting) perhaps a small percentage of it is battery life but with my transition to wp7 a huge weight was lifted off of my shoulders. I realized I never wanted to dissect my phone just to increase the fps by 10, I did it because I wanted to make my mobile experience bearable. Now, I have everything I want out of the box.
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Exactly, you've freely admitted that you found Android too complex, so of course the simplicity of such a basic OS as WP7 is going to appeal, lets face it, it's even less complex than iOS.
It's ideal for people who have never used a touch screen phone before, or even a mobile phone of any kind, especially if they have fat fingers, the sort of people who are not going to notice the lack of functionality but are easily impressed with visual effects.
xaccers, I still find it comical that you call me the troll but eh. I guess if that's your prerogative. I prefer my phone have decent social integration or as they put it, be "peoplecentric." as I use my phone primarily for *gasp* communication. The fact that it's also aesthetically pleasing is just a bonus, another that android does not have.
DirkGently, I agree to some extent, but I guess I feel the way I do because with WP7 the UI is uniform across the whole OS and most third party apps. I've come to appreciate the beauty in that. I do also agree that I see more quality in both the iOS and WP7 versions of apps that are on all platforms.
Let's not forget that you can't connect to ad-hoc wireless networks. I mean... c'mon...this is just lame.
Kinda not related, but i'ld like the source to be mirrored at some more reliable location xD
Getting to topic, i do like the custom overlays(tw, sense, etc..) but they take significant resources and are one of the causes behind slow updates
Wifi is the big problem for me
I have wifi issues with Archos 70 (Android 2.1 to 2.3, rooted), and Arcer Iconia (Honeycomb 3.2 rooted). Android seems does not like my working wifi and stay in obtaining ip most of the time.
And, I plan to listen some online radio (Domi, Douban for say), once the tablet goes to idle mode, wifi disconnected, make it useless. I tried to set wifi disconnect policy, tried wifi alive, wifi lock, wifi buddy and maybe most wifi related apps in the market, none work.
While iTouch works fine for above 2 scenarios.
Battery life and more quality apps. Seriously, has anyone else noticed that Android apps feel kinda rushed and low quality. Especially if that company/app is on iOS. I always felt that the iOS counterparts seem a lot better and that more time and effort is put into them.
Also, improvement on multitasking. I don't really like the little recent app window crap. Something along the lines of WebOS's multitasking screen would be a really nice addition. Also, notifications should be a little more organized. Apple did a good job with this on their notification dropdown ripoff..
-i7- said:
It is not Google who builds the UI, its the phone manufacturer... Motoblur,thouchwiz,Sense etc, not google-builds.
To much baggage?, Try downloading and installing an app killer from market.
What other category is there to add to market btw?
Scrolling, I would think this is directly from your phone and not cause of Google...
again, try app killer to free up some ram.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By UI he probably means Android's base UI, Stock Android. You have to admit, it is pretty meh. Downloading a app killer/task manager is a bad idea. That bogs down Android more than background apps do.
Wondering what the actual difference is between them. I am hesitant to go deep into trying them as I'm still setting up other stuff on the phone, and I don't want to bork something, but eventually I'll probably try them both. Was just wondering before I do what the actual pros/cons are of them. They seem to... imply they do similar things, but the examples are few and far between (especially on the samsprung one).
both quite buggy and sometimes work and sometimes dont....nice idea for both but not the easiest to navigate....gave up in the end as both just not quite there yet....give them a try and if you dont like them just uninstall.....simples...HTH
I know about CoverOs, what's the other one?
You can also use the Good luck app and download multistar and it allows you to put a widget that holds five icons that you can activate on the cover screen for the galaxy flip 4. When you download the app just click on the iHeart foldable and it'll be right there
Bxrider117 said:
You can also use the Good luck app and download multistar and it allows you to put a widget that holds five icons that you can activate on the cover screen for the galaxy flip 4. When you download the app just click on the iHeart foldable and it'll be right there
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the tips!
I remember I tried them (or at least one of them) when I first got my Flip 3 and you had to delete Samsung Health, has that ever changed? I kind of like using that Samsung Health sometimes!
mt2020 said:
I know about CoverOs, what's the other one?
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Samsprung TooUI
This is the one that used to require deleting the health app, in order to take over the widget spot. However... I assume this isn't needed for either of the current launchers?
nirurin said:
Samsprung TooUI
This is the one that used to require deleting the health app, in order to take over the widget spot. However... I assume this isn't needed for either of the current launchers?
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SamSprung TooUI never required deleting Samsung Health and could never be added to the widget list. It was the Z Flip 3 Launcher, which was remade into SamSprung, that could replace Samsung Health to run as a widget. Somehow, a year later and having posted it everywhere, we still get people asking why SamSprung is not in the widget list and why they had to remove Samsung Health.
sheridan2000 said:
both quite buggy and sometimes work and sometimes dont....nice idea for both but not the easiest to navigate....gave up in the end as both just not quite there yet....give them a try and if you dont like them just uninstall.....simples...HTH
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Click to collapse
Both have very extensive bug reporting features, or at least I assume because most of what I add has been mimicked. I can't speak for the other one, but if you reported it on SamSprung, then it was investigated.
nirurin said:
Wondering what the actual difference is between them. I am hesitant to go deep into trying them as I'm still setting up other stuff on the phone, and I don't want to bork something, but eventually I'll probably try them both. Was just wondering before I do what the actual pros/cons are of them. They seem to... imply they do similar things, but the examples are few and far between (especially on the samsprung one).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://github.com/SamSprung/SamSprung-TooUI/wiki has a bunch of information and being the first of its kind to release, SamSprung was used in a lot of videos on how to run apps on the cover screen (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=SamSprung). Most of the videos are a bit dated, so again there is no deleting Health and no widget (Android 11 loophole). It gives you the general idea, though.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/samsprung-tooui-cover-screen-home-free-zf4.4484079/ is the thread for SamSprung on Z FLip 4. I can't really give you a comparison, though. The short version is that I started an open-source project to compensate for a shortcoming that got played off as an "original" idea for profit. Rather than stress about it, I ignored the author.
Best thing to do is try any that seem interesting and if there is one you like that has an issue, see if you can get it fixed or deal with it before moving on to your second choice. The only one that really "is what it is" is good lock because they are affiliated with Samsung and still hijacking the widgets. For some, that is an advantage. For others, it's restrictive.
I have tried CoverScreen OS from @jagan2 and it`s really as best as it can get!
It transforms the coverscreen to a full fuctional ... mini phone.