Related
Just posted a pretty lengthy message on the T-Mobile forums... Post replies there if possible.
http://forums.t-mobile.com/t5/T-Mobile-G2/T-Mobile-Why-I-m-returning-my-G2/m-p/502593
Dear T-Mobile,
I thought I would write you this little note to explain why I have returned my G2. You see, Google created the Android Operating System to provide an Free, Open-Source alternative to proprietary Smart-Phone Operating Systems such as Windows Mobile and the iPhone. Google has done this to untangle the Smart-Phone ecosystem from the likes of Microsoft and Apple. The mantra of Open-Source software is: "If you don't like something, you can download the source and change it yourself!" Evidently, you do not understand this concept.
In case you were somehow unaware, the Linux kernel is protected by the GNU Public License (version 2). You can read the full license here: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html
By selling a locked-down device (such as the G2), you defeat the capability of developers to contribute to the Android platform. Many features in the mainline Android project have come from the "modder" community. Furthermore, your supplier, HTC, refuses to comply with the GNU license. Numerous attempts to contact them about this violation are met with the following form response:
"HTC will typically publish on developer.htc.com the Kernel open source code for recently released devices as soon as possible. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community."
This is not acceptable. Read the license - it is clearly states that source code must be made available to those who ask for it.
Adding insult to injury, you have also misrepresented the device by being less-than-honest about its specs and capabilities. Many users are surprised to find they only have 1.3GB available on a 4GB phone. Say what you will about "reserved space" - this is not the case on *any* other Android handset. Meanwhile, you have taken cash on the side to pre-load certain "useful applications" (crapware such as Photobucket) - which cannot be removed by the user. And to no one's surprise, you have removed built-in features of Froyo (such as Tethering.)
It's unfortunate that you have chosen this path for your Android handsets. Neither HTC nor T-Mobile own Android, Linux, or the numerous other software components contained therein. You cannot simply do with them as you please. Hopefully you will release future handsets without these restrictions - until then I will continue to support the efforts of those who unlock your software protection.
Regards,
An ex-G2 owner
Personally, I think you are blowing this "anti-root" debacle out of proportion.
G2 will be rooted, just give it time.
I will give you the 4GB w/ 1.3GB free space argument. No argument here.
SuperFly03 said:
Personally, I think you are blowing this "anti-root" debacle out of proportion.
G2 will be rooted, just give it time.
I will give you the 4GB w/ 1.3GB free space argument. No argument here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So wait... They should put all phones on read-only lock-down, refuse to provide source when obligated to do so by the GPL, mislead customers with specs (not just the 4GB), tear things out of the OS, fill my limited memory with useless applications that I dont' want, and cannot delete, etc....
I think it's safe to say, root aside, that they have failed on all these fronts. I'm not expecting them to just hand over persistent root - but it's my goddamn device. **** Tmo and HTC for all of the above.
How do you REALLY about htc and t-mobile?
I'm sure they're all getting out their tissues for you.
You can get off of the soapbox now.
HamNCheese said:
So wait... They should put all phones on read-only lock-down, refuse to provide source when obligated to do so by the GPL, mislead customers with specs (not just the 4GB), tear things out of the OS, fill my limited memory with useless applications that I dont' want, and cannot delete, etc....
I think it's safe to say, root aside, that they have failed on all these fronts. I'm not expecting them to just hand over persistent root - but it's my goddamn device. **** Tmo and HTC for all of the above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The requirement is 90-120 days after release right? We are 5 days into release.
The 4GB, as I said, I have no argument against because it is a bit misleading but then again there is an 8GB SDHC card.
The useless applications can be removed when rooted. Until then, I haven't seen an Android phone not come with at least a few useless applications. They suck but they can be removed eventually.
I agree with you that is your device that you paid for... I'm not a fan of content protection. I, in fact, hate it but the 1000 people who don't buy a device because of it don't compare to the 2million people who do buy the device so I don't get too worked up about it.
I think you are being a bit dramatic.
I totally agree with this letter root is my deciding factor on wether I'm purchasing this phone. And I'm purchasing it out rite. The whole 500. It irritates me I'm told what to dob with something I spent so much money on. I purchase a mts because I assumed I could root and write to system and what not because I wanted a phone with a keyboard and this was all that was out but I hated the espresso ui. Granted I can change roms but the lack of system writeable acess and no kernel has killed our mts development. The forum is a ghost town. I have a rooted g1 and let people use it as a loaner. Not one person has ever messed it up with root acess. Who is anyone to tell me what I can do with something I purchas. Would you buy a house and let someone tell you you can't changes the drapes or carpet. If your into cars or motorcycles you wouldn't purchase one and be told you can't upgrade the parts. I've never bought a computer I couldn't change my os on. And wasn't jailbreaking and unlocking made legal. So technically aren't anti root methodes illegal
Phone just came out dude give it time... there will be updates
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
HamNCheese said:
So wait... They should put all phones on read-only lock-down, refuse to provide source when obligated to do so by the GPL, mislead customers with specs (not just the 4GB), tear things out of the OS, fill my limited memory with useless applications that I dont' want, and cannot delete, etc....
I think it's safe to say, root aside, that they have failed on all these fronts. I'm not expecting them to just hand over persistent root - but it's my goddamn device. **** Tmo and HTC for all of the above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Misleading specs = bad, and possibly illegal
Bloatware = effing annoying
Not providing source = annoying, but the source requirement is worthless unless someone higher up in the chain enforces it
Removing things from the OS? Guess what: that's the other side of open source.
The G2 has its issues, and I don't fault people for returning it. I also personally prefer open hardware - the freedom to break what I have bought. But I agree with SuperFly03 that you are blowing things out of proportion. T-Mobile and HTC also have a right to make money and protect themselves from perceived customer abuses.
I like your letter and agree with you, if you were to create an electronic petition I would sign it as a 7+ year T-mo user paying $140+/mo for the last 3yr. I did sign such a petition 2yr ago after the g1 release, "keep android open" as I recall. Truth is your only other options are much more restrictive outside of the android OS. So much focus of Devs is on keeping android free and open that nothing the coperations do can stop them IMHO. Just keep the Devs beer/coffee coffers full and rejoyce in all that android was meant to be. BTW "Bandit Splash"
Buy a Moto Razr and call it a night.
- Fly like a G2
I would agree with you. Bloat ware is becoming popular with htc. I moved to the G2 from the EVO because of the non sense ui. Further more I think your letter is appropate for tmo. I decided to buy the phone out right from my work (Radioshack) without any service and running on wifi I have no disappointments yet. Besides spending the $500+ for the phone...
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk
ezcape said:
Buy a Moto Razr and call it a night.
- Fly like a G2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or, never buy this bull**** from a carrier again. Instead, buy un-subsidized, or un-locked phones direct. Like my Nexus One.
I don't doubt that it will be rooted within a month... That's not the point. Hell, if it is, I might just buy it again. But I won't support either T-Mobile or HTC with this crap as-is.
SuperFly03 said:
The requirement is 90-120 days after release right? We are 5 days into release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. There is no specific time requirement (this was addressed in GPLv3, which has some other issues.) The GPL went into effect the moment the executable code was "distributed" (technically late September, when the first people got their deliveries - maybe earlier - depends on definition of "distribution"...)
I don't expect a next-day turn-around, but HTC pulled the 90-120 days out of their ass. If I ask for source, and they do not provide it, they are non-compilant. Period. End of story.
The point of all this? Call attention to the fact that they are abusing the GPL. All of the Android manufacturers see Android as a cash-cow. They are taking Linux and doing whatever-the-**** they want with it.
It's wrong, and I'm calling them on it. Nothing more.
I'm disappointed (and fairly angry) that I had to sign a 2 yr contract & pay cash out of pocket just to get a Device that has been been falsely advertised and has Disabilities...
T-mo always comes out w/ BS devices that suck, ones no-one else wants, and it seems they shafted us with their flagship Android successor.
HamNCheese said:
Or, never buy this bull**** from a carrier again. Instead, buy un-subsidized, or un-locked phones direct. Like my Nexus One.
I don't doubt that it will be rooted within a month... That's not the point. Hell, if it is, I might just buy it again. But I won't support either T-Mobile or HTC with this crap as-is.
Wrong. There is no specific time requirement (this was addressed in GPLv3, which has some other issues.) The GPL went into effect the moment the executable code was "distributed" (technically late September, when the first people got their deliveries - maybe earlier - depends on definition of "distribution"...)
I don't expect a next-day turn-around, but HTC pulled the 90-120 days out of their ass. If I ask for source, and they do not provide it, they are non-compilant. Period. End of story.
The point of all this? Call attention to the fact that they are abusing the GPL. All of the Android manufacturers see Android as a cash-cow. They are taking Linux and doing whatever-the-**** they want with it.
It's wrong, and I'm calling them on it. Nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can do what they choose with Android, Google backs them as they did officially state that limiting Android to a vanilla, untouched build would essentially violate the fundamentals of having an 'open' OS.
Its up to the consumer to decide what they like and they don't.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
SmartHat said:
I'm disappointed (and fairly angry) that I had to sign a 2 yr contract & pay cash out of pocket just to get a Device that has been been falsely advertised and has Disabilities...
T-mo always comes out w/ BS devices that suck, ones no-one else wants, and it seems they shafted us with their flagship Android successor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, you didn't HAVE to sign a 2 year contract. It's really not worth it to save a couple of hundred bucks off the initial cost of the phone. Heck, I've seen unopened G2s on craigslist for around $400 already...
That being said, I still have until tomorrow to decide if I'm going to return this POS. I bought it outright, and my money is on this phone never being rooted. I know it hasn't been long yet, but it's not gonna happen.
EDIT: if this rumored OTA includes wifi tethering, I'll be happy. Also supposed to have a radio update...I guess I will wait and see!
seancneal said:
To be fair, you didn't HAVE to sign a 2 year contract. It's really not worth it to save a couple of hundred bucks off the initial cost of the phone. Heck, I've seen unopened G2s on craigslist for around $400 already...
That being said, I still have until tomorrow to decide if I'm going to return this POS. I bought it outright, and my money is on this phone never being rooted. I know it hasn't been long yet, but it's not gonna happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HamNCheese said:
Or, never buy this bull**** from a carrier again. Instead, buy un-subsidized, or un-locked phones direct. Like my Nexus One.
I don't doubt that it will be rooted within a month... That's not the point. Hell, if it is, I might just buy it again. But I won't support either T-Mobile or HTC with this crap as-is.
Wrong. There is no specific time requirement (this was addressed in GPLv3, which has some other issues.) The GPL went into effect the moment the executable code was "distributed" (technically late September, when the first people got their deliveries - maybe earlier - depends on definition of "distribution"...)
I don't expect a next-day turn-around, but HTC pulled the 90-120 days out of their ass. If I ask for source, and they do not provide it, they are non-compilant. Period. End of story.
The point of all this? Call attention to the fact that they are abusing the GPL. All of the Android manufacturers see Android as a cash-cow. They are taking Linux and doing whatever-the-**** they want with it.
It's wrong, and I'm calling them on it. Nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good god... the phone has been out less than 6 days and there is so much negativity.
Wow... this is sad.
Please read this license page:
http://source.android.com/source/licenses.html
under which Android is licensed. Android is released under the Apache Software License 2.0. Some parts may be GPL, such as the Linux Kernel, but overall the "Android" parts are covered by ASL v2.0 not GPL.
Clackamas said:
Please read this license page:
http://source.android.com/source/licenses.html
under which Android is license. Android is released under the Apache Software License 2.0. Some parts may be GPL, such as the Linux Kernel, but overall it is covered by ASL v2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I refer to the GPL, I'm referring to Linux - the kernel. The Android license does not cover the kernel. I could care less about the source of dashboard and all that. The Apache license allows some bits to be closed. But Linux is the problem here - the kernel source does not fall into that category at all.
Good god... the phone has been out less than 6 days and there is so much negativity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're entitled to your opinion. And I'm entitled to mine - which should be clear by now.
The time issue has to do with the 14 day "buyer's remorse" return period. My tracking number has to be visible by Thursday to be accepted, as I got the phone 2 weeks ago Friday.
HamNCheese said:
When I refer to the GPL, I'm referring to Linux - the kernel. The Android license does not cover the kernel. I could care less about the source of dashboard and all that. The Apache license allows some bits to be closed. But Linux is the problem here - the kernel source does not fall into that category at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And like many, you don't understand the GPL either.
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/COPYING
As Linus points out: Software using the standard interface and derived works are excluded. So, companies such as NVIDA and ATI can release drivers for the kernel without having to release the source to their "derived words". I am also unclear exactly where in the license it says source code must be immediately available. Surely it is a market disadvantage to require the release of such immediately with the product. That would be a significant liability to companies wishing to use GPL based code. 90 - 120 days isn't unreasonable. And the fact that the kernel version being used is publish means that > 90% of the source code is available at product release shows the spirit of intent.
I been mirroring things.
We have fission, etc- everything to SBF (Saved my ass, laptop broke- had to use someone else's- I enjoy my fast as hell easy to use repository )
So anyways then I read about new full SBF isn't released yet because of it's motorola proprietary code?
In that case I'll probably start a droid repo only on servers in a country without DMCA laws
Let me know- and if some guys want to set up and have access to publish files on this node I'll give certain people access. I don't have a PC setup yet but you can email me at chris aaaaat evilpuma.com
I've donated dozens of terabytes over the years, don't thank me but assist me in helping others. Tis was a pain in the arse to even get the SBF files the first time- glad I mirrored it.
(Sidenote since I'm sure devs only wont read: I don't want to host copyrighted apk's and what not. Not because I can't but because it's rude to the nice people who created that software. Get those apk's that cost $$$ from google and save them on your SD card- never need to DL again )
cmanns said:
I been mirroring things.
We have fission, etc- everything to SBF (Saved my ass, laptop broke- had to use someone else's- I enjoy my fast as hell easy to use repository )
So anyways then I read about new full SBF isn't released yet because of it's motorola proprietary code?
In that case I'll probably start a droid repo only on servers in a country without DMCA laws
Let me know- and if some guys want to set up and have access to publish files on this node I'll give certain people access. I don't have a PC setup yet but you can email me at chris aaaaat evilpuma.com
I've donated dozens of terabytes over the years, don't thank me but assist me in helping others. Tis was a pain in the arse to even get the SBF files the first time- glad I mirrored it.
(Sidenote since I'm sure devs only wont read: I don't want to host copyrighted apk's and what not. Not because I can't but because it's rude to the nice people who created that software. Get those apk's that cost $$$ from google and save them on your SD card- never need to DL again )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SBF 2.3.20 is out.
I been going forum to forum, so it's not copyrighted?
Sorry I read that it can't be released fully, so the full SBF is out?
My question is it legal to host SBF's in USA or not (& wheres the 2.3.2 at, MDW?)
thanks echo- been kinda out of the loop. Glad to see fissions hit 2.x!
cmanns said:
I been going forum to forum, so it's not copyrighted?
Sorry I read that it can't be released fully, so the full SBF is out?
My question is it legal to host SBF's in USA or not (& wheres the 2.3.2 at, MDW?)
thanks echo- been kinda out of the loop. Glad to see fissions hit 2.x!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes MDW. They have it linked to a megaupload. Check your pm.
Ah yes thats where I was reading bout it needing permission to be released haha
It technically is copyrighted and does contain proprietary code. However, the internet is flooded with SBF/SHX files from motorola as well as their RSDLite, RSD General, and other softwares, and I never once heard of anyone or any site getting a take down for having or posting them. Motorola generally plays nicely with the modding community (aside from locking down their phones).
Now, LG on the other hand...
bladearronwey said:
It technically is copyrighted and does contain proprietary code. However, the internet is flooded with SBF/SHX files from motorola as well as their RSDLite, RSD General, and other softwares, and I never once heard of anyone or any site getting a take down for having or posting them. Motorola generally plays nicely with the modding community (aside from locking down their phones).
Now, LG on the other hand...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Generally speaking, there is lot's of proprietary Motorola stuff everywhere, but Motorola is not "playing nice" with the modding community at all.
RootzWiki received a C&D for posting SBF files and MDW also was served with a C&D for posting the 2.3.9 OTA update.zip a month before it was released.
They are very serious about protecting their IP and doing everything possible to make all of what has been done so far on DX and D2 useless or of very limited value going forward. That is why they are including a new bootloader with every release now to prevent going back to prior versions.
Blanket statements about their willingness to allow such things to be posted are not valid unfortunately.
cellzealot said:
Generally speaking, there is lot's of proprietary Motorola stuff everywhere, but Motorola is not "playing nice" with the modding community at all.
RootzWiki received a C&D for posting SBF files and MDW also was served with a C&D for posting the 2.3.9 OTA update.zip a month before it was released.
They are very serious about protecting their IP and doing everything possible to make all of what has been done so far on DX and D2 useless or of very limited value going forward. That is why they are including a new bootloader with every release now to prevent going back to prior versions.
Blanket statements about their willingness to allow such things to be posted are not valid unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Historically, it's never been motorola against the modding community. If we're gunna point fingers at those responsible for the current closed model push, I think we need to start with the carriers...
bladearronwey said:
Historically, it's never been motorola against the modding community. If we're gunna point fingers at those responsible for the current closed model push, I think we need to start with the carriers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
History unfortunately does not reflect the current situation.
I have always felt that there was tacit support from inside Motorola for the modding and hacking community. I don't know if that was actually the case or if it was simply lax security and apathy, but it all changed when Sanjay Jha took over a saved Moto from oblivion. He is a former Qualcomm exec and is by nature extremely security conscious and this new push for control and lockdowns of the new phones is entirely his initiative and not coming from VZW at all.
He is committed to this new regime and sees protection of Moto's IP as key to the future success of the company. They are trying to establish themselves with a secure platform for enterprise use and wrestle that market away from RIM. The coming move to LTE will only solidify this position and all of these new methods they are using are just a prelude to even more ironclad security measures for those devices.
There is a lot more to it than I have touched on here but I have it on very good authority that this is how it's going to be for the foreseeable future.
We will have our hands full trying to keep up I am sure...
cellzealot said:
History unfortunately does not reflect the current situation.
I have always felt that there was tacit support from inside Motorola for the modding and hacking community. I don't know if that was actually the case or if it was simply lax security and apathy, but it all changed when Sanjay Jha took over a saved Moto from oblivion. He is a former Qualcomm exec and is by nature extremely security conscious and this new push for control and lockdowns of the new phones is entirely his initiative and not coming from VZW at all.
He is committed to this new regime and sees protection of Moto's IP as key to the future success of the company. They are trying to establish themselves with a secure platform for enterprise use and wrestle that market away from RIM. The coming move to LTE will only solidify this position and all of these new methods they are using are just a prelude to even more ironclad security measures for those devices.
There is a lot more to it than I have touched on here but I have it on very good authority that this is how it's going to be for the foreseeable future.
We will have our hands full trying to keep up I am sure...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems consistent from what I've read and heard as well.
Really, all you have to do is read the lawsuits over patents and positioning of IP BS - "we made this and you didn't" vs "well we made this and you can't use it" - to see that these companies have all mapped /flex to their spacebar.
cellzealot said:
Generally speaking, there is lot's of proprietary Motorola stuff everywhere, but Motorola is not "playing nice" with the modding community at all.
RootzWiki received a C&D for posting SBF files and MDW also was served with a C&D for posting the 2.3.9 OTA update.zip a month before it was released.
</snip>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So generally speaking it'd be good to start a mirror in this 3rd world country server location for SBF's and such?
Considering I can host windows iso's publicly... I don't know what I couldn't host there LOL
I've not got a C&D from my mirror of 2.2.2? sbf but I havent pushed that file around much.
Are they getting a C&D for posting link or hosting? I dislike that sorta thing, I don't mind putting up a lil battle but I'm def going to host these files non-usa then.
I posted this thread so whoever has access that wants me to setup a safe repo I can do so and give them/group access
Dear Forums,
As we all know, the key to having a truly customizable device is having the source for their builds, and as we also all know, Viewsonic has not released the source code for their Gtablet.
If we all find the correct email to contact, much like all other companies they will be pressured into releasing the source to the community.
Let's get this done.
LETTER
Dear Viewsonic,
We are aware your company has directed many customers calling for technical support to the gTablet sub-forum of xda-developers
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=841
Please consider listening to what the community as asking for.
By using the Linux Kernel in your device you are required by the Free Software Foundation's General Public License (GPLv2) to release the source code for the kernel. If there is any proprietary software involved in said code, then you have the right to protect your investment, and not include that with the source release.
We are entitled to the source to change our tablets in the way we see fit with the full understanding that when we modify our tablets software we remove ourselves from any sort of warranty you may offer.
Furthermore, we would like an open dialog between with your developers concerning the software which is shipped with the gTablet. It well known among the community that the return rate for the gTablet is unnaturally high. The version of Android developed by Tap n Tap does not provide a positive user experience for the average user. By this time you should be aware of such feedback coming from the main distributors of the gTablet, Sears and Staples. This situation will only continue to get worse as detailed professional reviews of this product begin to circulate around the Internet. One such review I am referring to will be posted to Anandtech.com in the next few days.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4054/first-look-viewsonic-gtablet-and-tegra-2-performance-preview
Barnes and Noble has released a Software Development Kit as well as source code to enable the community to make the Nook Color the best product it can be.
http://www.barnesandnobleinc.com/press_releases/2010_oct_26_nook_developer.html
Please follow their example. By working together we can make the gTablet a real competitor in the burgeoning tablet marketplace.
Sincerely,
The gTablet Community from xda-developers.com
I'll second that. Not sure what we can do, but they should be reminded.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Viewsonic's main website has a support tab that you can send inquiries. Do you think it would get to the right place if we used that?
The email avenue did not work for me
xmr405o said:
Viewsonic's main website has a support tab that you can send inquiries. Do you think it would get to the right place if we used that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried using the email tech support method for the web site; got this response back:
Dear Mr. Walker,
Thank you for contacting ViewSonic Technical Support.
I apologize but as much as I wanted to assist you with it, the product that you are inquiring about is handled by a different technical department.
You may contact them by calling 1-866-501-6405 between 8am-5pm PST, Monday through Friday.
If you have other technical concerns, feel free to contact us again. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to assist you.
Sincerely,
Josef
ViewSonic Technical Support
(800) 688-6688 (USA)
(866) 463-4775(Canada)
[email protected] said:
I tried using the email tech support method for the web site; got this response back:
Dear Mr. Walker,
Thank you for contacting ViewSonic Technical Support.
I apologize but as much as I wanted to assist you with it, the product that you are inquiring about is handled by a different technical department.
You may contact them by calling 1-866-501-6405 between 8am-5pm PST, Monday through Friday.
If you have other technical concerns, feel free to contact us again. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to assist you.
Sincerely,
Josef
ViewSonic Technical Support
(800) 688-6688 (USA)
(866) 463-4775(Canada)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go for it. it has to drop sooner or later. the more pressure from the community, the better. I'll drop them a line as well.
I get the feeling that instead of taking the time to lock the device down like is done with phones and other android devices, they decided they will just not release the code and hope to stall out mods that way.
TheMongol said:
I get the feeling that instead of taking the time to lock the device down like is done with phones and other android devices, they decided they will just not release the code and hope to stall out mods that way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That'd work, except for the fact that it's against the GPL, and that'd be breaking the law. They have to make it available, it's just a matter of pressuring them into doing so sooner than later.
just sent off my second email to viewsonic regarding the gtablet (along with a note telling them to fwd the email accordingly). i will let you guys know if i get a response.
Just called in. They are taking people's contact info that say they are android developers (they started doing that today) and they said they are not doing it to track us or anything like that, but to contact us...like say...when the source is released.
Everybody, call. Emailing isn't going to get you anywhere.
I informed them that they will legally have to release source under GPL, he said he will be passing that up to the developers. It sounds like we may be getting somewhere, but we need to call...the more the merrier. It sounds like they have a small call center so its not how many times you call, but how many different people call at this point.
myndwire said:
That'd work, except for the fact that it's against the GPL, and that'd be breaking the law. They have to make it available, it's just a matter of pressuring them into doing so sooner than later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yes indeed. But that doesn't mean people won't try to get away with things from time to time. Perhaps they are not even aware. I know I am going to call and ask soon even though I just started developing on android.
I called them today, as well - good bunch of people over there and a pleasure to talk with them.
I'm serious - in a world of reps in third world countries speaking broken english and working off a script, the VS reps are a breath of fresh air and Viewsonic should be commended for that alone. I put in my usual request to please release the source and I was told that they will pass it onto the development team.
I don't expect anything to come from it, but they do know who I am and who we are, so I'm hoping that VS management throws us a bone once they realize what a mistake it was adding that TnT layer.
roebeet said:
I called them today, as well - good bunch of people over there and a pleasure to talk with them.
I'm serious - in a world of reps in third world countries speaking broken english and working off a script, the VS reps are a breath of fresh air and Viewsonic should be commented for that alone. I put in my usual request to please release the source and I was told that they will pass it onto the development team.
I don't expect anything to come from it, but they do know who I am and who we are, so I'm hoping that VS management throws us a bone once they realize what a mistake it was adding that TnT layer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. The guy I talked to was pretty cool. He also said that the developers are being very persistent about keeping TnT in place. Very nice to talk to someone that can actually speak English
scsione889 said:
I agree. The guy I talked to was pretty cool, and even he came out and said xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. He also said that the developers are being very persistent about keeping TnT in place. Very nice to talk to someone that can actually speak English
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Watch out, they read these forums, don't want to get the poor guy fired!
jacindc said:
Watch out, they read these forums, don't want to get the poor guy fired!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x2 on that! Rule of thumb - if you write something here about a conversation with CS, assume that their management might read it and how that would look.
Just spoke with Mike @ Viewsonic gtablet support. First, they are very nice! Second, Mike said that they are working on a release, but no date yet. Finally, Mike said that they would be posting it to viewsonic.com/gtablet website (and to also check xda-developers.com for other updates).
They also took my e-mail address - hopefully to send out a blast when they are finally able to post it.
BTW, Mike - thanks!
I also have to echo others who have posted here - Thank you, Viewsonic, for having people who can speak English!!
I figured I would do my part as well. I called & spoke to a tech who said they were not releasing it & have no plans to do so. I said its linux based & the GPL says they have to release the source by law. He said they dont support changing the operating system. I said Android is linux based & falls under the GPL. He then transfered me to a senior tech who said:
Tap n tap is proprietary & therefore it doesn’t fall in the GPL. He said the TNT is also horrendous & they want to protect the tap n tap ‘investment’ which is why the source wont be released. They did not ask for my information aside from my first name for the conversation we had. He basically said they were not going to release the source regardless of how many people called. The only way to get it is to sue the company & force them to do so. Obviously, I am not looking to spend more money just to get the source. He knows that, the company knows that & until someone bucks up & hires an attorney, viewsonic doesn’t care.
He did say that they did get a number of calls, he feels for me, he said others have rooted it but tough titties (my summary).
RichTJ99 said:
He basically said they were not going to release the source regardless of how many people called. The only way to get it is to sue the company & force them to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Boy, did my blood pressure just skyrocket.
RichTJ99 said:
I figured I would do my part as well. I called & spoke to a tech who said they were not releasing it & have no plans to do so. I said its linux based & the GPL says they have to release the source by law. He said they dont support changing the operating system. I said Android is linux based & falls under the GPL. He then transfered me to a senior tech who said:
Tap n tap is proprietary & therefore it doesn’t fall in the GPL. He said the TNT is also horrendous & they want to protect the tap n tap ‘investment’ which is why the source wont be released. They did not ask for my information aside from my first name for the conversation we had. He basically said they were not going to release the source regardless of how many people called. The only way to get it is to sue the company & force them to do so. Obviously, I am not looking to spend more money just to get the source. He knows that, the company knows that & until someone bucks up & hires an attorney, viewsonic doesn’t care.
He did say that they did get a number of calls, he feels for me, he said others have rooted it but tough titties (my summary).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info.
What I don't understand is why is it that HTC is bound to GPL in that it must release source for its devices even though the majority of HTC devices has the proprietary software, Sense?
I don't think having proprietary software on a device exempts a company from conforming to GPL.
i think they must be new to linux or HTC is very used to dealing with Linux.
The senior tech was sympathetic but was firm in repeating the company plans. Heck their twitter page sais the same exact thing.
It makes me wonder if I should return it.
RichTJ99 said:
i think they must be new to linux or HTC is very used to dealing with Linux.
The senior tech was sympathetic but was firm in repeating the company plans. Heck their twitter page sais the same exact thing.
It makes me wonder if I should return it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree- without source, the gtab won't be able to experience its full potential especially if Viewsonic thinks anyone likes tapntap. Makes me wonder if I should return mine even though (outside of a few annoyances) I really like the device.
Viewsonic has to release source. Their device is Linux based with a proprietary software user interface just like HTC devices. This is ridiculous.
Just saw a series of tweets from @P3Droid saying they're looking for a soft-bricked D2G or Pro to test SBF files on. He said he's in the Phoenix area so do yourself and everyone else a favor if you've got a phone to send him and get that sucker fixed!
Edit: At 11:30 p.m. EST on 1/2/2011, @P3Droid tweeted that they will be publicly releasing the SBF files for both the D2G and Pro within the next 12 hours. I'll post a link to their posting once it's up. Note that they caution you to grab the stuff ASAP as it will likely be taken down by Moto via C&D (not that there won't be plenty of mirrors after that)
Edit2: It looks like links are up on Team Black Hat's forum. I assume since this is now for free there is no issue linking to their forum but if anyone better versed than I in the rules disagrees, please say so and I'll take the link down.
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...id-2-global-sbf-file-2-4-29-full-rsdlite.html
Again, thanks to Team Black Hat for the great work they do and for the decision to rapidly release this SBF publicly. Hopefully the short window between it being kept exclusive to their app and the public release will not deter folks from supporting the cause.
bout time. This will really get the modding community going for the global finally. Hear that all they need to do now is test it and they'll be set.
Yes this is very good news.
See my post down further as to see why I say this isn't good news.
Hint: This smells like a scam.
i hope that this is true, then we could start seeing a lot more modds dfor the d2g
Of course, 2 days after i send my brick in to verizon. good news tho
If you check the twitter account it says that the phone must be mailed just like the band unlock guy... I smell a scam and I for one do not recommend sending any phones by mail to anyone you don't know. You're just asking to have your phone stolen.
I wouldn't trust anyone who says that you must mail the phone to them or that you must meet them in person. If they really want to be trust worthy they will just give you the link to the file straight up. If they needed testers then they can setup a private channel on irc or something.
This is not a scam.
All of the members of TBH have NS(Non Secured) flash dev phones because that is what we personally chose to spend our own money on.
We also have consumer hardware test phones for other models but not the D2G or Pro.
We cannot test the SBF files we got recently on our phones and cannot afford to purchase these models at full retail to test the files.
We are well established in the community and have provided virtually all of the leaked SBF files for all of the Droid devices in existence.
Our record of community service stands for itself and has no comparable parallel.
Everybody wants these files and we want to release them so users who have soft bricked can recover and everyone can breathe a little easier modding these phones.
I would ask anyone who questions our motives how much of their own money they have spent on providing the community with such valuable resources as these files?
Anybody?
I thought so...
cellzealot said:
This is not a scam.
All of the members of TBH have NS(Non Secured) flash dev phones because that is what we personally chose to spend our own money on.
We also have consumer hardware test phones for other models but not the D2G or Pro.
We cannot test the SBF files we got recently on our phones and cannot afford to purchase these models at full retail to test the files.
We are well established in the community and have provided virtually all of the leaked SBF files for all of the Droid devices in existence.
Our record of community service stands for itself and has no comparable parallel.
Everybody wants these files and we want to release them so users who have soft bricked can recover and everyone can breathe a little easier modding these phones.
I would ask anyone who questions our motives how much of their own money they have spent on providing the community with such valuable resources as these files?
Anybody?
I thought so...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beautiful post and well said!
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using XDA App
cellzealot said:
This is not a scam.
All of the members of TBH have NS(Non Secured) flash dev phones because that is what we personally chose to spend our own money on.
We also have consumer hardware test phones for other models but not the D2G or Pro.
We cannot test the SBF files we got recently on our phones and cannot afford to purchase these models at full retail to test the files.
We are well established in the community and have provided virtually all of the leaked SBF files for all of the Droid devices in existence.
Our record of community service stands for itself and has no comparable parallel.
Everybody wants these files and we want to release them so users who have soft bricked can recover and everyone can breathe a little easier modding these phones.
I would ask anyone who questions our motives how much of their own money they have spent on providing the community with such valuable resources as these files?
Anybody?
I thought so...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do apologize as I'm new to having a Motorola device and thus do not know all of the developers yet for this brand of hardware. I recently came over from an HTC phone which has the Unrevoked team behind it for rooting purposes and so forth.
I only claimed that this seemed like a scam as I'm cautious about these short of things and your request asking for phones to be mailed seems very much so a tail tell sign of a scam. Again I apologize if this is your preferred operating procedure.
If I had better information about your group/organization then I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. If I had a soft bricked phone and had this information before hand I would have been more willing to help out. Though I personally still do not want to ship any phone via the mail. I would prefer an in person meeting where this test could then be conducted.
I too understand these phones are not cheap and it's not easy for developers to obtain consumer devices for testing purposes. Since these phones cost so much is why I'm cautious when it comes to someone asking for a phone to be mailed in.
I think the best way to test whether its an sbf or not is to make a new thread with links to it and a disclaimer, if it works, hey, that's awesome, if it doesnt, who cares, the phones its being tested on are already softbricked anyhow.
My question is, what if it is the sbf? Besides fixing softbricked phones, what more can be done with it?
Sent from my WICKED FAST Droid 2 Global with fission using XDA app
boomertwo said:
I do apologize as I'm new to having a Motorola device and thus do not know all of the developers yet for this brand of hardware. I recently came over from an HTC phone which has the Unrevoked team behind it for rooting purposes and so forth.
I only claimed that this seemed like a scam as I'm cautious about these short of things and your request asking for phones to be mailed seems very much so a tail tell sign of a scam. Again I apologize if this is your preferred operating procedure.
If I had better information about your group/organization then I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. If I had a soft bricked phone and had this information before hand I would have been more willing to help out. Though I personally still do not want to ship any phone via the mail. I would prefer an in person meeting where this test could then be conducted.
I too understand these phones are not cheap and it's not easy for developers to obtain consumer devices for testing purposes. Since these phones cost so much is why I'm cautious when it comes to someone asking for a phone to be mailed in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rusty815 said:
I think the best way to test whether its an sbf or not is to make a new thread with links to it and a disclaimer, if it works, hey, that's awesome, if it doesnt, who cares, the phones its being tested on are already softbricked anyhow.
My question is, what if it is the sbf? Besides fixing softbricked phones, what more can be done with it?
Sent from my WICKED FAST Droid 2 Global with fission using XDA app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We will not release anything until we have had a chance to thoroughly test it for ourselves, not all things we get are worth releasing.
To be honest this thread started good but really went silly rather quickly. Neither Cell nor myself need to defend the work we have done for the community and to state that we are scamming is asinine. As Cell stated we have lots of devices in many different flavors, they are not consumer phones therefore we can not always test things that we would like to.
I'm sure you know what TBH does and what we have done, if not you can most likely find 1 or 2 posts about us online somewhere. This is not a question of us not knowing what the files are, we know what we have in hand therefore that is not the question being asked. The request is for a consumer device to test this on.
So if you know someone with a phone that is inoperable have them contact us, so we can help them out and in return help out the entire community.
P3Droid
TBH
Has anyone offered to send a phone to you yet? Where are you located?
No, I went and bought a new D2G from VZW tonight so I can manage this myself.
Once testing is complete we will decide when and how to release the SBF file.
You're welcome...
sorry if I came off as a bit "silly" i do know about tbh and their contributions to the droid community. i was just suggesting an alternative way of testing this, but i understand your concern about releasing it publicly, it may cause more harm than good.
while im here, might i ask if the 3g mobile hotspot patch can be made for the d2g, seeing as how you have a d2g now? ive been waiting a while hoping that someone can make the patch for the d2g.
cellzealot said:
No, I went and bought a new D2G from VZW tonight so I can manage this myself.
Once testing is complete we will decide when and how to release the SBF file.
You're welcome...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey guys, sorry for the harassment/doubters. Unfortunately, the couple of posters who got on here were too lazy to follow the links on your twitter account to the website where it can be clearly seen just how crazy active you guys are on the Android scene and how reasonable you are with these types of requests.
Thanks so much for all the work you do to make Android phones do what they're supposed to do (stupid carriers with their stupidity). You guys do great work and I, for one, appreciate it a lot! Looking forward to the release
cellzealot said:
No, I went and bought a new D2G from VZW tonight so I can manage this myself.
Once testing is complete we will decide when and how to release the SBF file.
You're welcome...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is very generous from your side!
I don't know about others, but I think we should establish a fund or something like that to cover such expenses for our development teams. I am totally willing to shell some money for having the peace of mind of having the SBF file for my D2G laying around ready shall the need arise.
Right now (without SBF) I am reluctant of touching anything on my phone due to lack of safe way out. I am not in the States and exchanging the phone will cost me considerable amount of money and efforts.
Not sure if I should start a new thread for this as cellzealot already bought the phone, but I if this gets somehow organized, I am in with $20 to offset the expense. $20 is much less than what I would have to pay to ship the phone anywhere for whatever reason.
cellzealot, does your team have a paypal or something we can use for the purpose?
I have a Droid2Global that boots but is stuck at the stupid Backup Manager screen and doesn't allow me to go anywhere else. If you want, I'm more than happy to try the SBF out on that D2G if you send me the SBF. PM me if you want me to try it.
@leobg: Thanks for the offer of support.
We really don't care for the practice of plastering donate buttons all over in every forum where we post...so we don't do it.
The best way to support TeamBlackHat and the continued availability of these files and our other development projects is to purchase our app in the market for the extremely reasonable sum of $2.00 US. It is just a downloader that provides our users with access to all of the various leaks and other files. There is a filter that only presents content for the specific connected device.
There is also a donate button at the top of the screen for further support if you are feeling generous, thanks. The files are made available via the app exclusively for some period and then posted publicly for everyone later on MyDroidWorld. http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/forum.php
That is our way of providing a perk for our supporters and also assuring that all content is made available to the entire community.
This also prevents us from being accused of "selling leaks", despite the fact that those making such accusations have no clue whatsoever how these files are acquired or at what cost.
This is what we do and have been doing for most of the past year or so since the advent of Motorola Android phones with the original Droid.
There is no profit in this at all...trust me...it's just a way for us to absorb some of the cost of our passion for these devices and serve a unique and critical function to meet need for these kinds of files.
Nobody else has consistently proven to have access to these files except us and we have released every flash file for every Motorola Droid device in existence with the exception of two that RootzWiki released.
We don't do a lot of self promotion and prancing around on forums attracting attention to ourselves, that's not our way.
Thanks again for your interest and support!
Just sent you a donation for your work on the droid 2 global sbf. Your work is much appreciated!
THANK YOU!
-Strandedhuman
I have just purchased the TBH app from market. Plan to use the donate link there very soon. I really appreciate your efforts guys!
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL
As most of you would know, we have learned quite a bit about Defy bootloader during the last week.
We always thought that Motorola don't have a method to unlock production defys (defys shipped to end users). Well we have sufficient information now to prove that Motorola have a method, and that it converts production defys to engineering defys (Phones used by Motorola engineers to make ROMs and other stuff)
This is actually better than a simple unlocked boot-loader because eng defys have unlimited applications (because we have direct access to MOBO/CPU) like overclocking gpu, installing other OS like Ubuntu, Debian, WP7 etc. into NAND and a lot more.
So the problem here is that the tools required for ENG switch is only available to Motorola employees. Till now we have no further information on it. The tools are TI OMAP BOARD CONFIGURATION TOOL and a 16MB .bin file. Other significance of this method is that it might also unlock other phones with OMAP(3xxx/xxxx?) board. Also this method seems to be very stable.
So the good news is that this software is available for most Motorola repair centers. That means it would be easier to get a leak. Of course the highly paid Motorola engineers with 6digit paycheck wont leak it but we should consider low level repair executives (they already leak sbfs and RSDlite).
So my suggestion is we start a bounty thread in XDA to tempt them.
If you have a solution and if you are concerned about anonymity, please PM me.
PS : There are lots of bounty threads in xda.
Hi,
Setting a Bounty would be cool, but is legal ?
Cause it is not like "I pay you a lot of money if you steal this software for me"
the|gamer said:
Hi,
Setting a Bounty would be cool, but is legal ?
Cause it is not like "I pay you a lot of money if you steal this software for me"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm. It depend's on which country you are from.
I'm quite on it. Minimum/maximum fee could be set (like US$2 min and 20 bucks max, or anything like this). And someone with access to Motorola's employees (I think the user racca works on a Moto distributor, but I'm not sure of it, I think he mentioned it in some thread a few months ago) could rush and "bribe" them. If people could be a bit more clear about which kind of employees should have access to this software, I could try and convince one of them (you know, people here in Brazil aren't that much into honesty, but are a lot into money) about heading us a leak from TI's software. I'll have to take my phone to MOTOAssist soon ("menu" and "back" keys' backlights are weaker than normal), so I'd have at least an actual reason to talk to an assist technician (assuming they have access to the board configuration tool).
Yet, since I'm no hacker (yet, I'm planning on getting a Nook Color - which community here in XDA seems to provide all you need to start your own ROM - and starting messing around with it) nor coder (know only a little about C programming), I would not try and mess around with TI's software, but only upload it somewhere and give you guys a link for it.
K3n bH1mur4 said:
I'm quite on it. Minimum/maximum fee could be set (like US$2 min and 20 bucks max, or anything like this).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We could even promote it with ads. The best way would be to set up our on website, maybe in Brazil(or with some webhost who would like to host this) where you could bribe your way out and then promote it with ads. There is a remote chance that XDA might not approve a bounty thread here (of illegal implications), but we could publish the website here and all other major forums (chinese forums as well).
royale1223 said:
We could even promote it with ads. The best way would be to set up our on website, maybe in Brazil(or with some webhost who would like to host this) where you could bribe your way out and then promote it with ads. There is a remote chance that XDA might not approve a bounty thread here (of illegal implications), but we could publish the website here and all other major forums (chinese forums as well).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno, since it's illegal, it may not be the best option to promote it. Obviously, it's still not immoral, but we all know that morality and law often do not converge, so it may be better to go rogue, talking in private with motoassist technicians and stuff like that, because, even if we're just fighting for our rights, we're still using non-legal ways, and risking to be sued for it.
I don't think promoting a website is illegal. What's illegal is hosting an illegal one.
Promoting a website who promises cash for employees of a corporation who leak internal software used by that corp. might be considered illegal in most places. Fortunately (or not, I'll explain why), we have jurisprudence to embase of: in september 1st, last year, a judge here in Brazil condemned Moto to update a customer's Dext/CLIQ to Android 2.1 (Moto did not provide this update here in Brazil, even though it did in many countries) without voiding the warranty.
I know it's just one case, in just one country, and updating an android version is way different than providing unlocked bootloaders (or the tools for users to do so). And, yes, I agree with placing a bounty at the tool. Yet, if we get caught, Moto can still argue that we had other ways to pursue our rights, and we should have used the justice system to do so, if we believed we were that right. Yet, they're a multimillion-worthy company (even bigger after being purchased by Google), and we're a bunch of broke users, at most devs making a couple thousand dollars, and would have little chance against their lawyers. Last, but not least, employers who help us may get caught and fired because of us, and I sincerely want nobody (ok, maybe a few of the highest executives) to get fired just for me to get an unlocked BL.
So, my point is: let's make this a stealth action. Get a reason for your phone to be taken to Motoassist (no intentional bricking, please! You must flash an official SBF before taking it there! - at least if your phone is still under warranty), get to talk with one of their technicians, and mention - indifferently - that some guys are giving alway big money for any Moto employee who leaks that TI OMAP software. Something like this: "hey, did you hear that crazy devs at this dev forum are paying the first moto technician to hand them some sort of software? Something OMAP-related, I don't know for sure. All I know is that the reward is some nice cash."
When the word spread, we could have an unlocked bootloader within a month.
Yet, we got a single issue to deal: how to ensure the person who gives us the SW first will actually receive the cash? I've seen a few bounties here before, but them all were settled by XDA devs (so the bounty keeper could just donate the sum to that dev), never saw something like paying "outsiders".
One of my friends (Defy+ user) has a contact with a Motorola service guy. He says that that guy knows everything about Motorola software and he's with us because he himself uses custom ROMs and controls an entire service center. He's ready to take my device under warranty though it's rooted along every single hack/MOD for Defy installed
Will try contacting him
And let's post this in the forums of all other locked Motorola devices with OMAP 3xxx chips.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
swapnil360 said:
One of my friends (Defy+ user) has a contact with a Motorola service guy. He says that that guy knows everything about Motorola software and he's with us because he himself uses custom ROMs and controls an entire service center. He's ready to take my device under warranty though it's rooted along every single hack/MOD for Defy installed
Will try contacting him
And let's post this in the forums of all other locked Motorola devices with OMAP 3xxx chips.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Talk with this guy. If he has access to a copy of TI's SW, and handle it to us, I'm pretty sure we could him get a nice reward. Not as high as if putting a bounty, but definitely enough to make the effort worth it.
I mean, supposing that this is actually gonna help unlock EVERY OMAP 3 (and possibly all OMAP-based phones) out there, and that this way the process is reversible (at least to me, it looks like no eFuse is being blown there, you know, assistance technicians can't just blow eFuses like that - taking the phone to the assistance under warranty shouldn't void it, and that's what a blown eFuse would do), loads of people would help. Imagine a single dollar from every OMAP 3 XDA user (take a look here for an INCOMPLETE list of OMAP 3 devices with ~30 ANDROID ONLY phones/tablets), that would make a lot of money.
this is good....and i think it will be best to not mention the location,identities,or any hint of similarities of the perosn source once you guys get contacts & manifests from that guy(source). so as not to compromise his profession.
he could be fired & worse can be sued by leaking private details.
best discuss it in private,after getting in touch w/ him...
just a tought of CAUTION...
hailmary said:
this is good....and i think it will be best to not mention the location,identities,or any hint of similarities of the perosn source once you guys get contacts & manifests from that guy(source). so as not to compromise his profession.
he could be fired & worse can be sued by leaking private details.
best discuss it in private,after getting in touch w/ him...
just a tought of CAUTION...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah we would ensure him that.
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
hemil said:
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do u know motorola mobility service center in mbai?
we only hav private shops with motos certificate...
i dont think they can help...
all they say is we'll send it to factory(?)
Sent from my MB525 using xda premium
@hemil Please pm me.
hemil said:
I'll help u out....juzz tell me what to get from moto officials
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey buddy... just wait for my call today...
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Putting up an ads offering money for violation the law may be a bit problematic. No website will be excited to host it. Another issue is that in the end someone will have to actually post it, someone in particular. And that one person will be in danger of being a subject of interest of various law enforcement agencies. You know, at the end of the day they always want someone to put the responsibility on, the culprit, a scapegoat. So you make heat and you put some particular person into it even before there is any result.
I would prefer to focus more on personal face to face private communications with the service guys. It's harder to prove and if something goes wrong (the guy records it etc.) our guy can always say he was just kidding, bullshitting, bigmouthing.
Anyway, if you are thinking about this seriously, here are few remarks.
don't offer the particular sum, it's not tactical; not even here should be mentioned any particular number; instead, let the service guy ask his price
if the first contact with a potential source is established, ask first for a proof; specify what the proof is supposed to be (a screenshot? a video recording of the software in action?)
figure out a way how to actually collect the money; people are willing to donate but they will not donate to anyone, only to someone trustworthy (but Epsylon will surely want to have nothing to do with everything even remotely questionable, let alone illegal); the "collector" will be under the lights, he may get attention of people we don't want to deal with
who actually will be allowed to donate? anyone? how to avoid an agent to donate and then simply track where the money is going?
figure out a way how to actually make a safe and smooth deal (money <-> software); will it be in person or electronically? how to verify we are given what we paid for? classical problem: no one of both parties is willing to make his move first, but we can't give away the money for a software we would start verifying not until the money is gone
figure out how to avoid being robbed (fake offers from people who would want to grab the money and run away) as well as being caught (fake offers from the dummy guy - LE agent); in both cases the correct proof might be given, though, but the intentions are wrong
For the particular mechanics of the exchange in person, one of numerous possible ways may go like this:
our guy comes with an intentionally bricked Defy repairable only with the software in question together with the ordinary USB cable (or without, if special USB cable is needed; in that case the cable must be part of the deal), and with an empty flash drive recognizable at the first sight; no money on him
our guy passes the flash drive and the Defy (and the USB cable, if no special cable is needed) to the "source" and watches closely
the source copies the software onto the flash drive, runs the software from the flash drive, connects the Defy via the cable provided and actually unbricks the phone (this must be more elaborated on; what if the software uses some libraries from the windows directories etc. which are not copied onto the flash drive? he may or may not have the installer, but just copying the installer isn't enough, he would have to copy the installer on the flash drive, then run the installer from it and install it back onto the flash drive and run it from there)
our guy gets the phone (and the cable) back, the source unplugs the flash drive and keeps it for now, our guy watches the flash drive is not connected to anything from now on
now the software is copied onto the flash drive and verified it's working, thus ordinary hand-to-hand exchange may proceed; our guy didn't bring the money to avoid being robbed, they both now may go grab the money or our guy may call his buddy with the money etc. (also needs to be heavily elaborated on)
Sensitive parts must be detailed in-depth, I am just indicating the outline, one of many possible. Still it's very far from perfect.
As you can see it's not that easy and there are many potential points of failure so this action may never really come to the practical realization.
What about a little bit different or alternative ways? Are there any? It would be useful to ask Epsylon what he would actually wish for the most - had he been able to wish for anything.
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
rishi2100 said:
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
huh !! think about moto when they actually ditch us with promises ? whats wrong if what we are screaming for last 1 year . and didnt get any updates ? huh think about tht before u speak about illegal stuffs . if moto is doing all sought of ways to keep us away from our rights . what we do undercover to get us right can no way be questioned when we have told thousands of times that we need updates .
more over the authority can question us only and only when they are themselves self guilt free .... but instead they are pretending to be saint sitting behind the curtains and doing all sought of locking stuff to deprive us of our rights
@jhonsmithx Let's not get ahead of ourselves. First of all lets concentrate on getting the source. Also I urge users to use a bit of social engineering to do that(using fb/g ). We'll put together a plan according to the situation after that. Also note that this is a pretty long shot. We might not get a source after all.
rishi2100 said:
isn't it illegal to post copyrighted stuff and also its against forum rules..
i mean that if someone gets his hand on that super tool, then how can he shares it with us???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could think of atleast 10 ways to share anonymously. Though I wont be posting them here.