my question thus becomes:
Once we get ICS officially from Motorola (and I'm guessing it'll be Android 4.0.4 and not 4.0.3 or whatever), and Jelly Bean is already floating around, will it be possible to then have some ROMs made or built for JB that will work automagically on the Atrix 2, or will the updated kernel in JB become a big hassle/issue that prevents us from using it at all, barring that nobody will most likely crack that bootloader anytime soon...?
tl;dr version: Once ICS is official for the Atrix 2, can JB ROMs be built and usable or, will the updated kernel and whatever just be yet another wall on this fortress?
I just picked up an Atrix 2 and I find it to be extremely fast and so far pretty much rock solid stable. I rooted it, installed CWM, did a Nandroid backup of the 2.3.6 stock installation for safe keeping and then installed Remus 2.0 and it's just insanely responsive and everything works as expected.
But I just watched the Google I/O keynote to see what all the fuss about JB is about and I can see it's pretty amazing considering it's an incremental upgrade for ICS more than anything else, but the performance improvements are crazy so, I'd hate to think that Motorola would work on JB for us and yet not get around to releasing it till well into 2013 which is just a bit insane.
For such a company, Motorola is so behind the curve it hurts. I do love this device, however, it's utterly fantastic for me and I plan to keep it for some time, but obviously it's more than capable of running ICS/JB from the gitgo - now it's just "ok, when?"
Thanks...
br0adband said:
my question thus becomes:
"ok, when?"
Thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As per official information - update for ICS - Q3 of 2012 (which actually already started), more precision date - unknown
I don't think you read my post very comprehensively - I didn't nor was I asking if ICS is coming and when it'll be out as we already know that based on Motorola's schedule announcement.
I know ICS is coming, I know it's between July (like, right now) and September (which means between right now and the end of the year given Motorola's somewhat inefficient release schedules of past years.
What I'm asking again is:
When ICS is out, and when I've got it installed on this Atrix 2, is there a possibility that Jelly Bean will be ported over to this Atrix 2 considering they're very similar OSes that most likely will use the same bootloader, or ... ?
In other words, after ICS is available, are we looking at a 2013 release of Jelly Bean for the Atrix 2, if it even happens, or will it be up to talented folk in the developer community to make the best of ICS as given by Motorola?
Hope that's more clear... I don't know how else to ask the question, honestly.
I'm no dev... but I did sleep in a holley day inn last night...
The locked bootloader means that the bootloader can only load the official Moto released kernel. JB will have a new kernel so the only way to get JB is when/if Moto releases it.
That's all I wanted to hear, at least from one other person as a confirmation. Nothing surprising, but somewhat of a disappointment I suppose.
/me kicks Motorola in da shinz, hard... then does it again...
I wouldn't be so sure that it's never going to happen. People have accomplished CM9 and AOKP (both ICS ROMs) on the Razr, Droid 3, and Droid Bionic (all of which atm are still on GB) that uses the GB kernel (and just about all of those ROMs are flashable on the A2, just without a working radio). So there's a good chance that the same thing will happen with ICS to JB, and since it's an incremental upgrade then I think it would be easier to do.
cogeary said:
I wouldn't be so sure that it's never going to happen. People have accomplished CM9 and AOKP (both ICS ROMs) on the Razr, Droid 3, and Droid Bionic (all of which atm are still on GB) that uses the GB kernel (and just about all of those ROMs are flashable on the A2, just without a working radio). So there's a good chance that the same thing will happen with ICS to JB, and since it's an incremental upgrade then I think it would be easier to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, this is true. What most seem to not realize or maybe even know, is that the jump from GB to ICS was huge in the kernel space because honeycomb was completely jumped over and skipped in the phone space. What this means is that all of the upgrades from HC were merged into the ICS kernel, so the jump from Gingerbread to ICS was a huge one. The jump from ICS to JB will be much smaller, and it will have a lot more performance tweaks and increases from ICS. So this should be more doable. The real issue is that we need the ICS kernel first to start looking into JB.
Yeah I intentionally qualified my reply since I'm not familiar with the enhancements that went into the GB, ICS and the JB kernels...
I would have expected that the project butter enhancements in JB would have required significant kernel level changes. I take it that the kernel level work to support project butter happened with the ICS release... and now the UI layer in JB is more or less just leveraging that foundation.
apinkel said:
Yeah I intentionally qualified my reply since I'm not familiar with the enhancements that went into the GB, ICS and the JB kernels...
I would have expected that the project butter enhancements in JB would have required significant kernel level changes. I take it that the kernel level work to support project butter happened with the ICS release... and now the UI layer in JB is more or less just leveraging that foundation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No You may have misunderstood, just a little.
The jump to JB from ICS will be smaller.... Than the jump from GB to ICS. Yes there are a going to be some hefty changes for project butter, but only in in the performance and virtual space areas of the kernel, since every thing in the android app space is handled by the jvm, so there are a lot of enhancements to how the virtual space is handled, that is really what project butter does, as well as the changes in kernel to do that. Now Project butter also changes the vsync timings in the OS as well, and I am pretty sure we can port or figure out some of the changes and make some of that up in ICS as well.
We will most likely be able to run JB "ROMS" without ALL the project butter enhancements once we are on ICS, but that will be more than likely not until closer to the end of the year that we will begin to see some ported ROMS for JB that are capable of running on this phone.
It would be nice to see that... I like Moto hardware but the locked bootloader can be a bit of an annoyance.
Related
After experiecing JB on my TF101，I felt sad that the Project Butter seems NOT to be working.I can't see anything runing at totally 60fps.Why the same system,the same CPU and the same resolution but the contrary experience？
we do not have the tegra 2 jb source. Also project butter is partially in the kernel which has not been fully ported yet afaik
also all the roms are on their first versions. they will be updated soon
You do realize these are very early test ROMs, right?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
But so many phone with early test ROM，even 2.6.36 kernel，work smoothly as iOS or WP……
I'm running the CM10 preview on my TF101 and It is a lot smoother then the Jellybean rom on my Nexus S 4g and this is just the beginning of Jellybean, I can't wait to see how much better it gets. - Just my opinion.
it is definitely improved experience to me.. better than ICS... I can't wait to see the performance, when ROM is finalized and stabilized.. currently pretty much usable.. compared to early versions of ICS few months ago
which rom are you using?
based on how the tweaks can improve performance, i just say wait till it gets stable version.
JB on the tf101 is everything I expected and more, certainly delayed my upgrade for a couple of months
Pointless topic every ROM is in alpha state and you're already complaining ? I've just tried cm10 for 2 days and its smooth even tough its just an alpha. So don't troll here.
This guy also posted 2 times in the cm10 thread about how slow the build is. He is just trollin I've reported the guy.
The only problem I can see that flash isn't allowed to get installed anymore
gkillerx said:
The only problem I can see that flash isn't allowed to get installed anymore
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And how's that supposed to be a problem? <g>
Sarcasm aside, I agree about the OP being a troll or a totally clueless user: usually, getting a new version of AOSP up&running on a consumer device which isn't on the "golden list" takes a very, very long time - this time it took mere days to get JB running on the TF101 with minor nuisances (most of them caused by the infamous NVIDIA blobs and the byzantine way they interact with the kernel and the hardware).
Was wondering should I just wait for OTA JB update or just flash custom EOS JB rom.Just restored my Xoom to factory about a month ago.I know how to flash/restore/recover from brick but just wanted some opinions on this.
Try it and see yourself. You might love JB so much, you won't want to wait for OTA.
Besides, EOS will give more features and performance enhancements.
my opinion
Use JB from team Eos is a GREAT experience...
You will love with its smoothness and responsiveness.
Now I use build #93, and its blazing fast. I love it.
I started use it since #84, #88 and #92.
I love this ROM, but now I think about going back to stock ICS, why?
1st, I notice that battery life still greater on ICS, even working on the same 3g network all the time. (I rarely use WiFi)
2nd, I found that on #93 'auto' brightness didn't work correctly, the screen won't decrease its brightness on darker surrounding.
3rd, I can't use Google voice translator, it won't recognize my voice.
That's why I wanna go back to ICS. Maybe my reason didn't bother you, but that's matter for me.
So, if you can ignore a little problem that you might find on JB, I can say that you should try it now, you will amaze for its smoothness.
But now, I will wait for a moment and go back to ICS.
It such a great great great experience with JB, an Amazing work by Team EOS:good:....
ota JB will have JB kernel and new binary file ( dirver ?) for camera etc , anc can upgrade radio baseband
EOS JB have ICS kernel , ICS (some HC ) binary file ... but have some tweak like over/down clock , color change of clock ....
no waiting
I didn't have to wait. I'm not rooted or invited to the soak test. On a whim I deleted the cache from the framework app and then checked for updates.
The OTA downloaded and I'm on 4.1.1 now. Your mileage may vary...
one more for EOS
I would consider EOS especially since returning to stock is relatively simple. My options for the update were limited - Canadian Eh
Also I've been using the ICS from EOS since I got my tablet -- May 3 rec'd the tablet and on May 5 I installed ICS using the nightlies from EOS, never looked back and have had few issues, none serious.
EOS roms and the Xoom- makes that 3 year old tablet perform like some of the newer wonder tabs and for way less money.
However you go, I am sure you will like JB android... it seems to be somewhat smoother and troublefree.
Ok I know that the devs are no where near ready to port a jelly Bean rom and we should be happy with ICS and bla bla bla. That's all fine by me but I was wondering if we could maybe port just the jelly bean notification/status bar look without the other JB stuff like project Butter or google now? Or does is it just a packaged deal? I ask this because I know you can customize the notification look using rom toolbox so maybe it would work with a jelly bean modification? Thank you for your time
TO be honest unless one of the porting teams wants to tackle it we probably wont get those features until a port of JB is released.
One of the subtleties that has been missed by many is that "we" are running ICS on what is basically a GB Linux base. Rather than working on more window dressing, I know several of the active devs are working on getting a working ICS/JB Linux base. Once that is complete and reliable, I would imagine that getting a JB to build will be relatively easy.
jeffsf said:
One of the subtleties that has been missed by many is that "we" are running ICS on what is basically a GB Linux base. Rather than working on more window dressing, I know several of the active devs are working on getting a working ICS/JB Linux base. Once that is complete and reliable, I would imagine that getting a JB to build will be relatively easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is interesting and seems like a more effiecient investment I can't wait till they can get the updated base. I just think that window dressing gives a hands on experience of what were missing out on. Do you happen to know the devs that are working on the new base I'd be interested to know their progress (not to rush them, just out of curiosity)
lonoguge said:
That is interesting and seems like a more effiecient investment I can't wait till they can get the updated base. I just think that window dressing gives a hands on experience of what were missing out on. Do you happen to know the devs that are working on the new base I'd be interested to know their progress (not to rush them, just out of curiosity)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This should answer that.
bhundven said:
Yup, I also noticed that the imgtec repsoitory on TheMuppets was updated with jb, too. (9 days ago, as of this writing)
First thing in order is to get the new 3.0.8 kernel working with ics properly. I'm getting there.
Got storage working on mmc, but having problems getting wifi working, which is using sdio.
So, let me focus on ics, and when that works properly, jb will come naturally
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jeffsf said:
One of the subtleties that has been missed by many is that "we" are running ICS on what is basically a GB Linux base. Rather than working on more window dressing, I know several of the active devs are working on getting a working ICS/JB Linux base. Once that is complete and reliable, I would imagine that getting a JB to build will be relatively easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just figured this out today. and it looks like the GB kernel is pre KJ6 as well.
What goes into a fully functional ROM for an android phone like our beloved TB's? ICS for us has been an evolution of sorts. From what I understand, first we had woefully buggy ICS because we were missing something that only the manufacturer can provide (the RIL, whatever that is?). Sounded to me like the OS would work, more or less, but it was the calling and data that was missing.
Then we got our leak. The leak provided some critical component, but we still have imperfect ROMs. What did we get, and what do we still need?
I know our devs are leaner and meaner coders than the guys at HTC, and that there have been ROMs which are much improved over the initial BAMF one. But, have we gotten ICS to a sweet spot that can't be improved by an official HTC update? Or can we still benefit from it whenever the hell it comes out?
Duely blundered from my thunderdolt.
If I have to guess, you're seeing them hang back until something a little more refined than that leak comes out. The kernel source will be very helpful in getting some kinks ironed out related to the battery life problem of the leak. Also, I believe there are camera and camcorder issues that are kernel related. Kernel source never gets released until after the official update goes public.
Some of the devs may also be preparing Jelly Bean ROMs and not even paying attention to ICS anymore. I'm hoping for this, as we're still going to be one revision behind when HTC releases Ice Cream Sandwich for Thunderbolt. I've seen at least one dev state that ICS to JB is a snap, relatively speaking, so we should get some sweet 4.1 action fairly quickly one the OTA drops.
The ril was one component we were lacking but jester stumbled across something in his build that gave us 1x data and liquid figured out some of the rest. The main thing we are missing now is official ics kernel. The leak we got was a crappy test build and I think that was among their first test builds but that is just my opinion. Once we get kernel source for ics things will be much better. We also need a kernel dev too because imoseyon has moved on to other devices and won't have time for the thunderbolt.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2
Yes, I am currently being a coward. Normally I could live without a camera and camcorder, but I just had a kid. Don't want to miss those moments because daddy hacks his phone.
So we got the RIL and need the kernel. After the real release comes out (probably by the time yet another version of Android will be out), we wait a few months, and bam we have the new htc stock ICS kernel. Is the only way to get it is from them intentionally releasing it? There's no way to reverse engineer it eh?
Guess we wont see another "lean kernel" then if Imo's out of the equation. Hopefully he's not the only show in town.
Duely blundered from my thunderdolt
Kernels can be hacked and changed to your liking but I think you can get into trouble if you publish it.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2
Liquid's current ICS ROM is pretty damn good, if only with a few hiccups that can be fixed without the new kernel. I can't even imagine how good it could be with a new official ICS kernel.
Kernels can be hacked and changed to your liking but I think you can get into trouble if you publish it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldn't imoseyon have gotten in trouble for all the great kernels he's released if that were true?
The Linux kernel is free for anyone to modify. If you improve it, you're expected to share your work. That's the beauty of open-source software.
If HTC doesn't release their source for the kernel but you hack it is what I mean.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2
If HTC doesn't release kernel source, they will be in violation of the GPL. The only source they can legally withhold is their own software, like Sense, or proprietary driver files. They don't own the kernel, so they must release the source after they release an official ICS build, and they can't go after anyone for hacking it and publishing the source. Of course, if they never release ICS, the wouldn't have to release the kernel source, and some brave dev would have to figure it out. I hope that doesn't happen.
I suspect we're splitting hairs on this one.
Technically, HTC isnt allowed to withhold the kernel source at all. But they do. So reverse engineering / decompiling the kernel is completely legal.
I'm super excited for ICS/JB/BBQ/whatever. I'm running liquid's rom on my bolt right now. It isn't perfect, but I love the overall user experience. It's a shame these things take so long to move through the pipe, but I'm very appreciative of the efforts folks are putting in to make this happen. :good:
Just wondering why android 4.0 (ICS) had these notable bugs as a major release? like VPN connection issues, text corruption (jumbles up and looks like hieroglyphics) and maybe more (add any you know and I'll update this post)
I mean what did they do on Google before releasing a milestone android version?
P.s: I remember one of the most significant features announced at the press event on October 2011 in Hong Kong was 'unlock by face recognition'. But where is it now? I couldn't find it on any ICS AOSP ROM or Jelly Bean ROM installed on my phone. Was it only for galaxy nexus was shown at the Honh Kong event?
I have that feature on my EVO 3d
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
ghandil said:
P.s: I remember one of the most significant features announced at the press event on October 2011 in Hong Kong was 'unlock by face recognition'. But where is it now? I couldn't find it on any ICS AOSP ROM or Jelly Bean ROM installed on my phone. Was it only for galaxy nexus was shown at the Honh Kong event?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could be faked by a photo and also it didn't work well for older devices where the front camera had a low resolution, hence most rom's removed it.
crazyfool_1 said:
It could be faked by a photo and also it didn't work well for older devices where the front camera had a low resolution, hence most rom's removed it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does Google keep it on Jelly Bean yet? Or Google removed it on later ICS updates too itself?
All my devices which have been 5 have all been on Ice Cream Sandwich and I had no problems whatsoever by far the best version of Android before jelly bean I have facial recognition on all of them if it was removed it was because the custom ROM that you were on remove it it's a standard feature and Ice Cream Sandwich.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using xda app-developers app
@jchavez1993, @pezlomd
Thanks for sharing, Buddies
Jelly bean actually enhanced the face recognition feature. You have to blink to unlock the phone. Obviously you can't do that with a picture of your face.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium
I suppose Face unlock has still to evolve a lot, i mean there could be numerous scenarios / lightning conditions etc. But like NIMBAH mentioned blink to unlock is a good addition
Never had problems in lighting
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
ghandil said:
Just wondering why android 4.0 (ICS) had these notable bugs as a major release? like VPN connection issues, text corruption (jumbles up and looks like hieroglyphics) and maybe more (add any you know and I'll update this post)
I mean what did they do on Google before releasing a milestone android version?
P.s: I remember one of the most significant features announced at the press event on October 2011 in Hong Kong was 'unlock by face recognition'. But where is it now? I couldn't find it on any ICS AOSP ROM or Jelly Bean ROM installed on my phone. Was it only for galaxy nexus was shown at the Honh Kong event?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on what your phone is. Face recognition requries front camera mate.
Anyway, I believe the 4.x series is a massive success. It solves the defragmental issue, improves UI in terms of look and feels and smoothness significantly, while maintains Android's strength of openess and growth.
The VPN thing is minor, and it is ignorant to consider this as a Android's fiasco. Meanwhile, text corruption is caused by your phone's kernel, hence you can't blame it on Google. I sense that you use some legacy phone like Galaxy Y and have bad impression on ICS.
In my opinion Android 4.0 was the best move Google has made yet. Jellybean is nice and all, but ICS made the big changes. Fully HWA ui, deeper account integration with most services and just beautiful to work with. Android has never been this tweakable before. As far as bugs are concerned, I've never encountered any of the problems the OP names.
ICS is beautiful for me.
I'd compare it to Windows 7 whereas Gingerbread was like Vista to me.
Anyways, the launch of ICS really shows the true versatility and strength of Android. It's smoother, easier to use, and more minimalistic than any other version of Android out there. As for the facial recognition feature, it works perfectly fine on CM10 for me. I've used it on CM9 as well.
VPN is definitely an issue, but seeing as I don't use it, it didn't matter to me.
ICS isn't always perfectly functioning on older devices though. So i'd assume that you're running an older device with legacy hardware that just doesn't function properly with ICS (probably an issue porting code and software to the device). I remember trying ICS on my Dad's G2x and it was a nightmare! So I can understand where you're coming from.
hadobac said:
Depends on what your phone is. Face recognition requries front camera mate.
Anyway, I believe the 4.x series is a massive success. It solves the defragmental issue, improves UI in terms of look and feels and smoothness significantly, while maintains Android's strength of openess and growth.
The VPN thing is minor, and it is ignorant to consider this as a Android's fiasco. Meanwhile, text corruption is caused by your phone's kernel, hence you can't blame it on Google. I sense that you use some legacy phone like Galaxy Y and have bad impression on ICS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks,
About text corruption I tried different ICS ROMs such AOSPX, IceColdSandwich ... And Of course my phone is Desire HD. What about that?
khoikn said:
ICS is beautiful for me.
I'd compare it to Windows 7 whereas Gingerbread was like Vista to me.
Anyways, the launch of ICS really shows the true versatility and strength of Android. It's smoother, easier to use, and more minimalistic than any other version of Android out there. As for the facial recognition feature, it works perfectly fine on CM10 for me. I've used it on CM9 as well.
VPN is definitely an issue, but seeing as I don't use it, it didn't matter to me.
ICS isn't always perfectly functioning on older devices though. So i'd assume that you're running an older device with legacy hardware that just doesn't function properly with ICS (probably an issue porting code and software to the device). I remember trying ICS on my Dad's G2x and it was a nightmare! So I can understand where you're coming from.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dammit why can't I just remember those days I was on gingerbread (2.3) and its functionality to compare with ICS as a big Change? Should I flash a 2.3 version again and stay 1week or more on it? Is it the only remained way to realize smoothness improvements?
ghandil said:
Thanks,
About text corruption I tried different ICS ROMs such AOSPX, IceColdSandwich ... And Of course my phone is Desire HD. What about that?
Dammit why can't I just remember those days I was on gingerbread (2.3) and its functionality to compare with ICS as a big Change? Should I flash a 2.3 version again and stay 1week or more on it? Is it the only remained way to realize smoothness improvements?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your main issue was that fact you were using a ported version of the OS with hacked up drivers and files. There will always be issues when you use these types of OS distros. I also used the same device as you but recently switched and let me tell you the desire HD doesn't do it justice. The devs do great work but there is only so much they can do without the proper files.
Batcom2
That's true zelendel, but as far as I know text corruption was as AOSP issue that was present in stock ICS on the Galaxy Nexus too. Haven't seen it since JellyBean so I think it has been fixed in AOSP. Also, development for the DHD has come a long way since you left especially since the release of 3.0.xx kernel by Virtuous Team. The forum has really come back to life. The codefireX 4.2.1 ROM and its 3.0.xx KangBang kernel are pretty awesome, and the phone has never performed better.
Source -
http://code.google.com/p/aospx/issues/detail?id=23
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=25393
Ics was great but too laggy on me! GB was much smoother than ics. So I switched to JB with cm10. Best from google yet! ( my opinion!)
zelendel said:
Your main issue was that fact you were using a ported version of the OS with hacked up drivers and files. There will always be issues when you use these types of OS distros. I also used the same device as you but recently switched and let me tell you the desire HD doesn't do it justice. The devs do great work but there is only so much they can do without the proper files.
Batcom2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I actually forgot about hacked Drivers and their impact on ported ROMs' functionality. Thanks
sashank said:
That's true zelendel, but as far as I know text corruption was as AOSP issue that was present in stock ICS on the Galaxy Nexus too. Haven't seen it since JellyBean so I think it has been fixed in AOSP. Also, development for the DHD has come a long way since you left especially since the release of 3.0.xx kernel by Virtuous Team. The forum has really come back to life. The codefireX 4.2.1 ROM and its 3.0.xx KangBang kernel are pretty awesome, and the phone has never performed better.
Source -
http://code.google.com/p/aospx/issues/detail?id=23
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=25393
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was interesting about text corruption.
I'm not an expert in Kernels so didn't get your point actually.
Thanks