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bad news about WM 7

Hi People,
Here is an extract from smartphone mag that has some bad news in it, It seems M$ is starting a fresh and non of your programs will run on WM7. Plus there will be no updates for any current phones, so I dont see much prospects for cooking WM7 that will be of any use for us. Anyway I shall let you read it yourself
Jay
Jim Karpen,
your Web Guide
Read New Windows Mobile Content Every Week day at Smartphonemag.com
Web Guide: Windows Phone 7 Won’t Run Old Apps, Won’t Work on Current Phones
Shocking news this past week about the forthcoming Windows Phone 7 Series. Not only will it not run current apps, but also current phones such as the forthcoming HTC HD2 from T-Mobile may not be upgradeable. This week, I'll point you to more information about this, as well as additional detail about Windows Phone 7 and videos of this software in action.
Current Phones Won't Run Windows Phone 7
windows Phone 7 Series Won't Run Current Apps
The other bit of news was somewhat expected, but still something of a shock: none of your current software will work on a Windows Phone 7 device. According to a post by a Microsoft executive, making a clean break from the past will allow the new phones to be as powerful and user-friendly as possible.
What does that mean? That the developers will need to rewrite their software to work on the new phones. The exec did say that Microsoft will continue to work with partners who plan to deliver Windows Mobile 6.5 devices, and that it will continue to support these products.
The big question is, Will developers bother to rewrite their software? Given that so much of the smartphone action is in the Android and iPhone arenas, they may simply choose to focus on those platforms rather than rewrite their software for Windows Phone 7. An indication of the declining interest in Microsoft's platform may be the recent announcement by Skype that they were pulling their Windows Mobile version of Skype and have ceased development of it.

It is known for quite some time, just say goodbye to our clients to finally kato no one wants their products, they are great clowns of silent men like this Seventh, very ugly and totally sure that will become famous shows blue screen, as gathered from XP

[Q] Qt on WP7: Possible but why not?

Qt apps work on WinCE. If WP7 is built on top of WinCE, why would Qt apps not be allowed on Win7?
I'm just trying to make sense of it here. Is it an artificial Microsoft restriction for their platform?

Because third-party apps are managed in .NET compact framework. Qt is a C++ framework and thus unmanaged. This is a smart move by MS as it increases system stability and enhances user experience.

leonard2010 said:
Because third-party apps are managed in .NET compact framework. Qt is a C++ framework and thus unmanaged. This is a smart move by MS as it increases system stability and enhances user experience.
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If that's the lame reason they give for it not being doable then I will just need to hack Qt onto it. Dumbest move in Nokia's history!

discourse said:
If that's the lame reason they give for it not being doable then I will just need to hack Qt onto it. Dumbest move in Nokia's history!
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givin that one of the main reasons that windows mobile 6 and for that matter windows desktop can be unstable is poor quality 3rd party programs i think the move was a very good one, forcing programers to stick to strict controls means they have to develop good software, also givin MS got most of the flak for these crap programs i think it was a good move on their part

at the cost of lower performance and code easily being stolen. MS don't care about developers. Hacking a silverlight app onto CE and calling it a new OS was a terrible shortcut and will cost them in the long run.

It's a matter of time until Microsoft releases a Native Development Kit. In a recent interview Brad Watson from Windows Phone 7 Development team said:
Brad Watson said:
8) What about native SDK? Android got theirs later, should we expect Microsoft to provide a native SDK also, or just forget about it ?
BLW – if by native SDK, you are asking will we allow anyone to run C or C++ unmanaged code on the device, the answer is “not now.” Our primary concern is ensuring that there is a fantastic customer experience on the phone. We recently announced that we have satisfaction rates for the phone at 93%. That’s amazing. We attribute at least some of that to the fact that customers can buy apps that they don’t have to worry will trash their phones, and they don’t have to worry because of the managed platform.
Over time we will certainly relax certain restrictions on the phone, but we cannot compromise the integrity of the phone experience or the marketplace experience.
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Microsoft has to release a NDK because the competition has a NDK. Hopefully the competition will have more and more NDK applications (Firefox, Skype) which would make them more appealing to the user.
When such a NDK will be present, Qt (at least lighthouse) will be ported to Windows Phone 7

indiekiduk said:
at the cost of lower performance and code easily being stolen. MS don't care about developers. Hacking a silverlight app onto CE and calling it a new OS was a terrible shortcut and will cost them in the long run.
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While I agree it's far from the entirely new OS we were promised I very much doubt it will cost them in the long run. They have provided a OS experience that is second to none, this is all because of the limitations they have put in place.
I would expect the platform to open up somewhat for the next wave of [higher-end] devices giving existing users an iOS-like experience where you can certainly upgrade to utilize multitasking and all that jazz but it will cost you some of the current smoothness of the UX.
The fact that .Net assemblies are easily decompiled into fully working Visual Studio projects hasn't been a huge problem on the desktop and as obfuscating tools become better and better I see no reason why it should lead to a problem on the mobile platform either. Looking thru some of the recent marketplace apps they are all but decipherable for the average developer. Also, as more and more processing moves to the cloud it becomes less and less of a problem - most startups are neither willing not capable of mirroring your closed-source/protected backend services.

The missing NDK is not the sole reason. The OS IS different. As others have pointed out, quite some GDI stuff is just not there, or doesn't do anything. So, Qt would probably just not start. And as there will never be (as MS said) (official) OpenGL drivers on WP7 you can't switch the backend.
And there has to be already some kind of NDK, as e.g. Navigon Select is a semi-native application and it is not created by OEMs.

Hades32 said:
The missing NDK is not the sole reason. The OS IS different. As others have pointed out, quite some GDI stuff is just not there, or doesn't do anything. So, Qt would probably just not start. And as there will never be (as MS said) (official) OpenGL drivers on WP7 you can't switch the backend.
And there has to be already some kind of NDK, as e.g. Navigon Select is a semi-native application and it is not created by OEMs.
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They say IE9 will have accelerated graphics support, which I presume is based on Direct3D. For WinPhone7 Qt needs a Direct3D backend, which should work on all WinPhone7 devices.
Qt should have the same capabilities of IE9, which AFAIK is not written in managed code.
Qt could also use Google's angleproject which should help in translating "OpenGL ES 2.0 API calls to DirectX 9 API calls".

Since this is a discussion thread, this is going in WP7 General.
~~Tito~~

It will simply not happen. It's that easy. (Not w/o homebrew that is)

By not allowing Qt on WP7, Microsoft and Nokia have just shot themselves in the foot. Instead of offering a smooth migration path for the millions of Nokia users and devs, they've basically alienated the entire community. WP7 is also losing out on thousands of high quality applications like Angry Birds for Symbian^3 and MeeGo that was developed using Nokia's Qt SDK. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS1dwYmKMjs

discourse said:
If that's the lame reason they give for it not being doable then I will just need to hack Qt onto it. Dumbest move in Nokia's history!
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Good luck hacking Qt into it.
Using .NET also increases Security.
WP7 doens't need Qt, and Microsoft should do whatever it can to stop Nokia from putting Qt in WP7.
Those reasons aren't lame, unless you're missing the portion of you brain that controls logic.

discourse said:
By not allowing Qt on WP7, Microsoft and Nokia have just shot themselves in the foot. Instead of offering a smooth migration path for the millions of Nokia users and devs, they've basically alienated the entire community. WP7 is also losing out on thousands of high quality applications like Angry Birds for Symbian^3 and MeeGo that was developed using Nokia's Qt SDK. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS1dwYmKMjs
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It's much easier to develop for WP7 than it is for Symbian/Qt. I don't think the developers will have much of an issue with it. They didn't shoot themselves in the foot, you people just AREN'T developers, and don't understand it.
You know you're talking to clueless people when Angry Birds is the epitome o fa high quality application to them.
Cause you cannot develop Angry Birds in XNA, and you seriously believe porting Angry Birds to WP7 will involve nothing other than a few code line changes and a recompilation?
Give me a break.
I wish Microsoft had partnered with SE or something. Nokia's fanbase are more bat**** crazy over these pet projects than the Android people.

Qt will continue to be the development framework for Symbian and Nokia will use Symbian for further devices; continuing to develop strategic applications in Qt for Symbian platform and encouraging application developers to do the same. With 200 million users worldwide and Nokia planning to sell around 150 million more Symbian devices, Symbian still offers unparalleled geographical scale for developers.
Extending the scope of Qt further will be our first MeeGo-related open source device, which we plan to ship later this year. Though our plans for MeeGo have been adapted in light of our planned partnership with Microsoft, that device will be compatible with applications developed within the Qt framework and so give Qt developers a further device to target.

[Q] Does WM7 support flash

Hi every one , simple question .
Does WM7 support flash ?
thanks

machhho said:
Hi every one , simple question .
Does WM7 support flash ?
thanks
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Windows Phone 7 doesn't support flash.

thanks for replying, but what about the mango release does it include flash support .

I think it doesn't. It gives better support for browsing (html5 and i think Silverlight). Other than that, nope, nothing.

machhho said:
thanks for replying, but what about the mango release does it include flash support .
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HTML5 support has been added in Mango. Flash will never be an added functionality to the phone.

You get flash in windows 7 but not windows 7 phone seems pretty stupid to me, because they have the right hardware to support e.g. CPU.

dilzo said:
You get flash in windows 7 but not windows 7 phone seems pretty stupid to me.
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I dont think it's stupid. It has to do with licensing and the fact that flash is a competitor. Furthermore, flash is starting to become defunct and HTML5 is becoming the new standard. Microsoft is even starting to embrace html5 and say the hell with Silverlight.

dilzo said:
You get flash in windows 7 but not windows 7 phone seems pretty stupid to me
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What is "windows 7 phone?"
There's Windows 7, which is a PC OS, and there's Windows Phone 7, which is phone OS. They share the word "Windows" and the number 7 in their names, but they are not the same thing. In particular, Windows Phone 7 is not a mobile version of Windows 7.

It also seems to be an issue with Adobe even creating a Flash engine to work on the WP7 platform. They have supported Android and that is it as far as mobile.

LiFePo4 said:
It also seems to be an issue with Adobe even creating a Flash engine to work on the WP7 platform. They have supported Android and that is it as far as mobile.
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Yeah it would require access to some low-level api that MS isn't willing to expose. I'll say they may have been able to get flash working on Nodo, but since Native code is disabled in Mango.. that's a DEFINITE NoGo ( )

Flash would also be another attack vector for the platform, over which Microsoft would have no control - it will solely depend on updates provided by Adobe. So a more Microsoft-based sandboxed environment, this problem is avoided.
Besides, I think soon enough we will see a migration to non-flash content for a lot of popular resources (e.g. YouTube, ScribDB, Vimeo), so spending time on implementing a 10+ year old technology inside a modern platform would not make much sense when much more attractive alternatives are available.

No flash support.....one of the reasons I left wp7. Among complete control over my device. I loved wp7 concept but y'all will never have total control over your devices.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App

WP7.8 apps and WP8

I'm wondering if apps that are on windows store for WP8 if will work on WP7.8 devices or there will be an option for developers to port easily the apps to both version of OS with same source code but with little optimizations?
I try to search something on Google but i didn't find something.

XAP and apx
well . it will NOT work . more likely developers will now have to decide .. program will run on ALL available devices or only on new .
there are 2 formats linked with minimal hardware requirements
1. XAP - Qualcomm S1 800 mghz / 256 ram. it supposed to be like universal
2. APX . qualcomm S4 / 512 ram
windows Phone 7.8 - Supports only XAP
Windows Phone 8 - Supports APX and XAP

I got HTC 7 Mozart: http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_7_mozart-3530.php as i can see thee is 512MB+ RAM so ... i hate Microsoft and i will never buy again MS Product.

512 .. and ? it only allows run FULL version of 7.x without any limitation . apparently there is also subclass of applications which require 512 ram for and for example will not work on devices with 256 ( lumia 610 and 510 ) . as well as windows phone 8 / where some applications want 1 gb .
and you forgot about CPU lol :laugh:
phones divided by generations . inside generation ( os version ) phone must run and application . upper generion must run older apps in compability mode with some impovenents . idea similar to consoles like Xbox and playstation ( for example you cant run games from ps3 on ps 2 and 1 ) . why split ? becose developers who want to develop application for android really *****ing bricks . from market fragmentation and diversity . in ms way
1. developer know target hardware and its capabilities .
2. developer know supported api set
API set heavily related to hardware itself . for example DX 9.3 , and some programming sets heavlily related to OS kernel . you may know that windows phone 8 is Windows NT .Not Windows CE 7.1 BASED

mo3ulla said:
512 .. and ? it only allows run FULL version of 7.x without any limitation . apparently there is also subclass of applications which require 512 ram for and for example will not work on devices with 256 ( lumia 610 and 510 ) . as well as windows phone 8 / where some applications want 1 gb .
and you forgot about CPU lol :laugh:
phones divided by generations . inside generation ( os version ) phone must run and application . upper generion must run older apps in compability mode with some impovenents . idea similar to consoles like Xbox and playstation ( for example you cant run games from ps3 on ps 2 and 1 ) . why split ? becose developers who want to develop application for android really *****ing bricks . from market fragmentation and diversity . in ms way
1. developer know target hardware and its capabilities .
2. developer know supported api set
API set heavily related to hardware itself . for example DX 9.3 , and some programming sets heavlily related to OS kernel . you may know that windows phone 8 is Windows NT .Not Windows CE 7.1 BASED
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I feel like they sh1t on us with this, they push the WP7 and now they remove it from market with WP8...
when Apple can upgrade iPhone 3G to iOS6, MS can't upgrade a one to another version of OS

1 . you cant upgrade Iphone 3g to ios 6. only 3gs .
2. Ios6 on 3gs - is pretty same as 5 . nothing new.
3. despite on possobility of implement siri on 4g . they did not
4. there is plenty of apps which require dedicated minimum of Iphone (4 and later ) and not working on any others 3-3gs ) .
same approach as apple implemented by MS .
in 7.8 implemented most of features to keep platform inside Windows Phone ecosistem without any problem ( well as some sort of - low end ( :laugh: . same design . close API and programming functionality .
and Nt kernel a bit huge for low end devices , its not CE with minimal system requirements
if you think that APX will become a REQUIREMENT you are wrong . from developer side . APX more like an option

Gizmo_x said:
I got HTC 7 Mozart: http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_7_mozart-3530.php as i can see thee is 512MB+ RAM so ... i hate Microsoft and i will never buy again MS Product.
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it's not just the ram, it's also the chipset your HTC mozart still using 1st gen snapdragon, so it might not be powerful enough to run win 8 apps

as ms supposed
apx intended for
1. HD applications or programs ported from windows RT
2. application with exccessive calculations or graphical requiremens ( premium games )
for rest of applications is still intended - xap

The HTC Mozart is now 2 years old. If it gets WP 7.8 it will still have gotten better/longer support than most android devices. Windows Phone 8 is a huge overhaul of the OS (and it uses a different kernel) so WP 8 apps can not run on WP7.5/7.8 devices, however WP8 has been designed to be backwards compatible so WP8 will run most of the WP7.5/7.8 apps.
I think it is bold to assume that every single developer will instantly abandon the WP7.x platform completely, more likely they will put out one version for each system.
Still, if you'd rather move to android or iOS, no one is stoping you.

Time to say good bye for WP7.8 by MS.

i have an other question but it is related to apps and windows phone 7.8.
Are we gonna have some new SDK coming out for the 7.8 because i see there are some differences, the live tiles which are developed with micrsoft windows phone 7 /7.1 /7.1.1 SDK flip now on 7.10.8858 ROMs just like the wp8 tiles, it is faaaar better, so my question is can we expect something like an 7.8 SDK with some new abilities for the live tiles, like making big live tiles for the 7.8? i would love to have my app have the same visual abilities like the live tiles on wp8. for now they fliping the same way. i hope we get some API with which we can work to make the big one s too and some other transition effects like on th e wp8.

Gizmo_x said:
Time to say good bye for WP7.8 by MS.
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Ok, good bye. Have fun with android or iOS, whatever you prefer.
Dinchy87 said:
i have an other question but it is related to apps and windows phone 7.8.
Are we gonna have some new SDK coming out for the 7.8 because i see there are some differences, the live tiles which are developed with micrsoft windows phone 7 /7.1 /7.1.1 SDK flip now on 7.10.8858 ROMs just like the wp8 tiles, it is faaaar better, so my question is can we expect something like an 7.8 SDK with some new abilities for the live tiles, like making big live tiles for the 7.8? i would love to have my app have the same visual abilities like the live tiles on wp8. for now they fliping the same way. i hope we get some API with which we can work to make the big one s too and some other transition effects like on th e wp8.
Click to expand...
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I assume that there will be an addition of wide tiles to the API so probably a small version bump in the SDK. But if we get that for sure only time or MS can tell. Maybe they'll still lock the wide tiles to OEMs, just like they currently do (officially)

I assume that there will be an addition of wide tiles to the API so probably a small version bump in the SDK. But if we get that for sure only time or MS can tell. Maybe they'll still lock the wide tiles to OEMs, just like they currently do (officially)
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if they lock the big tile to OEMs that would be a disappointment to all developers. first the wp8 SDK needs to much resources. i have to buy additional 2GB of RAM, and i need to reinstall my windows 8 to x64. Thats to much for the majority of developers to ask for. So wp8 could also make an slow progress on apps because of that fact. and the last thing about all that is we must pay to develop and spread our apps from which the Windows Phone ecosystem lives! i would set the developer price to $0 for the once which are offering free no ad apps. if you want to add ads to your apps microsoft gets an % share of the earnings, and the third possible situation you want to make paid apps, you pay % of the share of each app selled. so every possible developer would jump on the wp7 wp8 development. but if we pay, like i, and get our apps out, then we get the SDK late, and it uses s o much resources and Microsoft earns on us then this is not ok! They are selling apps as an major feature, and without developers no apps, no live tiles - and no apps means no business. but Microsoft wants that we pay for it to develop no matter how much we are doing for the community.

Gizmo_x said:
Time to say good bye for WP7.8 by MS.
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Actually, this will keep 7.8 and the developers making apps for it, alive.
MS intends to keep 7.8 as the lower to mid-high end of their market, with 8 being the exclusive high end. More people will have 7.8 than 8, therefore, apps are needed more on 7.8 than on 8. This means 7.8 will not die, because both devs and MS need it.
In fact, every app that does not require very precise programming(AKA C++) will be written in the 7.8 sdk.

mcosmin222 said:
Actually, this will keep 7.8 and the developers making apps for it, alive.
MS intends to keep 7.8 as the lower to mid-high end of their market, with 8 being the exclusive high end. More people will have 7.8 than 8, therefore, apps are needed more on 7.8 than on 8. This means 7.8 will not die, because both devs and MS need it.
In fact, every app that does not require very precise programming(AKA C++) will be written in the 7.8 sdk.
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Click to collapse
as i know wp8 will have native code execute, what about wp7.8?

mcosmin222 said:
Actually, this will keep 7.8 and the developers making apps for it, alive.
MS intends to keep 7.8 as the lower to mid-high end of their market, with 8 being the exclusive high end. More people will have 7.8 than 8, therefore, apps are needed more on 7.8 than on 8. This means 7.8 will not die, because both devs and MS need it.
In fact, every app that does not require very precise programming(AKA C++) will be written in the 7.8 sdk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but to develop for the WP7.8 OS you need the WP8 SDK. windows blog stated this one or two days ago. If you want to use the new features like the biggest live tile you will need wp8 SDK. and therefor plenty developers will say this is bull****, because i think 50% or more of the world wide developers need to upgrade their PCs to run the WP8 SDK. and that gonna be hard for Microsoft. The WP7 system lives from apps, if you dont have developers to develop it, what will happen with WP8???
and if you ask me i wish they make and 7.8 sdk which can run on the same devices like 7.1 SDK. but i think that's not gonna happen, Microsoft want that we buy windows 8 x64 to developer for Windows Phones (7.8 and 8)

Dinchy87 said:
yeah but to develop for the WP7.8 OS you need the WP8 SDK. windows blog stated this one or two days ago. If you want to use the new features like the biggest live tile you will need wp8 SDK. and therefor plenty developers will say this is bull****, because i think 50% or more of the world wide developers need to upgrade their PCs to run the WP8 SDK. and that gonna be hard for Microsoft. The WP7 system lives from apps, if you dont have developers to develop it, what will happen with WP8???
and if you ask me i wish they make and 7.8 sdk which can run on the same devices like 7.1 SDK. but i think that's not gonna happen, Microsoft want that we buy windows 8 x64 to developer for Windows Phones (7.8 and 8)
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Upgrading to win 8x64 costs like 50 bucks....not that much considering you get a lot of sweet stuff.
The bigger problem will be the emulators which require very specific hardware power. But than again, you should have a phone by now.

Gizmo_x said:
as i know wp8 will have native code execute, what about wp7.8?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
officially there is no native code fore 7.x family at all.it just never intended.due limitations of ce7kernel(there is no security for such code at all)
Native code on RT (phone. And windows rt edition).runs in sandbox enviroment .like traditional metro apps (7x).so no kernel mode at all.it suitable only for sharing programming model with desktop version

mo3ulla said:
officially there is no native code fore 7.x family at all.it just never intended.due limitations of ce7kernel(there is no security for such code at all)
Native code on RT (phone. And windows rt edition).runs in sandbox enviroment .like traditional metro apps (7x).so no kernel mode at all.it suitable only for sharing programming model with desktop version
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then Wp7.8 will lose opportunity for Cross platform game engines like Unity3D because they are going to support only Wp8.

mcosmin222 said:
Upgrading to win 8x64 costs like 50 bucks....not that much considering you get a lot of sweet stuff.
The bigger problem will be the emulators which require very specific hardware power. But than again, you should have a phone by now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm speaking of development for 7.8 Europe and eat Europe, Asia markets will be very good for wp7.8 development. and 7.8 will be tied to the WP8 SDK. and i have already 7.8 and i dont want to develop for wp8 for now. the problem is not in windows 8, the problem is when they told us about the specifications. i already had x86 as they said that. and i dont have 4GB RAM and no CPU with SLAT support. this will be in east Europe about 200-250$ investment! for what? for microsoft that they can live with WP8 and with our apps? They live of our apps they should give us what we need to develop, 7.1 sdk run very well on my pc and i have no problems, and if 7.8 is stil a 7 then why new resource needs and specifications? I think their lazy to make an custom sdk for 7.8 and will just reflection some stuff from wp8. and an reflection uses the wp8 SDK and of course windows 8 and 4gb ram an an CPU with SLAT. so 50% of the worldwide developers must upgrade... half of my friends must upgrade to develop further for Windows Phone 7.8 and that is bull****.

[Completed] Cortana In Windows

Microsoft’s digital voice assistant was introduced on Windows Phone 8.1 back in early April, and since then the company has been working hard to refine the service and launch it globally. On mobile.
But an appearance on the Windows platform is all but a formality.
And now we have an official confirmation. Of sorts. Marcus Ash, the group program manager working on the Cortana project fired off a series of tweets over the weekend, revealing that the software titan was indeed planning to port Cortana to the desktop.
Only after finishing work on the Windows Phone build, that is.
This is what he said on the matter:
“4. After we execute on #1 – #3, we have started to THINK about #Cortana on #Windows so more #Microsoft customers experience her.”
And followed it up with another tweet, saying:
“5. In a future state, the best experience will still be for #Microsoft customers that own all #Windows devices. Best work is on our devices.”
So basically, the idea is to provide a fully featured experience on Windows Phone, first and foremost. This is clearly the top priority for now.
Once this goal is achieved, however, the company will start focusing on other projects for Cortana, including porting the service to Windows 8.1. In case this takes time, and development requires more effort, then the digital assistance might debut with Windows 9.
And judging by how thing are going, chances are that the next full version of the operating system will be the one that arrives with Cortana built in.

This might help the Windows Phone Users. So it might be more Pertinent to post
Windows Phone 8 Development and Hacking > http://forum.xda-developers.com/Windows Phone 8 GeneralWindows Phone 8 General
I do not believe you had a question per se in mind.