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HP Touchpad frenzy doesn't make sense

It seems like everyone is so obsessed with finding these touchpads and I really don't understand why. Yes for $100 or even $150 or $200 they're definitely worth it. But even just looking around this forum and some other sites, it seems like people are becoming so obsessed with getting a touchpad that they're spending a lot of money on them and are failing to realize that its not that good of a product and that its OS is basically abandoned. For a good price I would get one, but would it really be worth more that $250?

Agreed.
I don't think its worth more than the current 99/149 prices.

After using one for about a week, I can say it's definitely not worth more than about $250 in its current state (if not less). It'll be worth the same amount as other lower-priced tablets when Android makes its way onto it. Either that, or when the Android emulator becomes functional.
WebOS is actually a really fantastic OS, there's just no apps for it.

bholloway said:
It seems like everyone is so obsessed with finding these touchpads and I really don't understand why. Yes for $100 or even $150 or $200 they're definitely worth it. But even just looking around this forum and some other sites, it seems like people are becoming so obsessed with getting a touchpad that they're spending a lot of money on them and are failing to realize that its not that good of a product and that its OS is basically abandoned. For a good price I would get one, but would it really be worth more that $250?
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Click to collapse
There is a marketing lesson to be learnt here somewhere. Unfortuantley HP don't seem to be taking advantage of the hype they have generated.
I would also buy one for the cheaper price (I went to Harvey norman on the sale day but missed out) but agree the prices people are paying for them now are rediculous. ($350-$400 lol) Unless more magically appear at or around the firesale price I will be saving for the next gen tablets.

Im hooked on watching people freak out over these tablets. Its so funny, I bought one for my sister and she loves it. All she does is Facebook and internet so it was a deal for her.

Impossible to find any around here selling on craigslist for $200 or less.

I'm going tomorrow morning to get one for $99. I can totally understand why people are freaking out. It's 9", 1.2 ghz dual-core processor, and Android is coming very very soon via rootzwiki. I have the Galaxy Tab 7" and it's just a hummingbird single core 1.0 ghz, and I got it a few months ago on sale for $200, so hell yeah I'm going tomorrow early and lining up an hour before doors open.

I was only going to get one to flash it with Honeycomb.. but can not find one anywhere. If you aren't going to be doing that, then I don't see the justification for buying an unsupported product with no apps.

A lot of people got them because they knew Android would be ported to it sooner or later, making it a pretty decent device.
I tried to get one, but failed.
Other "non-nerd" general consumers got them because it is a cheap tablet that is fairly versatile, and for what you get, the price was amazing.

All these idiots think they are going to sell them all for $250-300..... no one wanted this crap before the $99 sale.
I hope all the hoarders get stuck with them all,

KingKuba13 said:
All these idiots think they are going to sell them all for $250-300..... no one wanted this crap before the $99 sale.
I hope all the hoarders get stuck with them all,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no thinking about it, I got $265 out of a NIB 16GB.

tenaciousj said:
There is no thinking about it, I got $265 out of a NIB 16GB.
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Click to collapse
I think the market value of one of these is probably around 200 dollars. Actually,while Im not a fan of WebOS I think HPs situation is their own doing. There is a demand from a top manufacturer for a cheap tablet. What they SHOULD have done was contracted with one of these Taiwanese companies that make the 150-200 dollar tablets and made a smaller cheaper version of their tablet. Sell it close to cost for 150 dollars or so,running Web-OS,and sell their flagship tablet for around 400 dollars,pretty much what it takes to make it. I bet the cheaper ones would have flown off the shelves,creating a demand for WebOS apps,which would have driven demand for the bigger tablet. Instead,they tried to go head to head right at the start with the iPad,and priced their product similarly.
Think of it this way. Hyundai wants into the luxury car market. Should they make a car with similar features as a BMW, sell it for the same price and expect people to flock to it in droves? Of course not. That would be really stupid,especially considering that even if they do it right and make it comparable to the BMW,its going to have flaws because they have never done that before. Instead,what they did was make a comparable luxury car,two actually,the Genesis and the Equus. they are priced at 40K and 60K respectively. Thats around 10 grand at the low end and 20 at the high end lower than comparably equipped cars. They have to compete on price because they cant compete on the other aspects of their product. Some years down the road,if they can get and keep quality up to par,they may end up in the same situation as Honda and Toyota who used to be seen as cheap imported junk,but now are seen as high quality desirable vehicles. However,if they tried to simply change overnight and step in and compete with BMW ,or Toyota (Lexus) or Honda (Acura) they would fail as miserably as HP did.(they may still fail of course)
You have to have a plan on how to make inroads into someone elses markets and build a reputation or no one is going to buy your product,whether you are selling tablets that compete with the iPad or cars that compete with BMW. Samsungs strategy is that they are HUGE. Android tablets seem to be taking off slowly,and they can stay in the game and do things like use their other products to build market share. (For instance,if you buy a samsung TV and a samsung tablet,you can get a nice discount.)

I gave up, eventually the crazy will go down and those tablet will sell on ebay for the right price. For 300 dollars I'll look for a honeycomb android tablet at that point (I think I saw the asus transformer at that price or a bit more)

0vermind said:
I'm going tomorrow morning to get one for $99. I can totally understand why people are freaking out. It's 9", 1.2 ghz dual-core processor, and Android is coming very very soon via rootzwiki. I have the Galaxy Tab 7" and it's just a hummingbird single core 1.0 ghz, and I got it a few months ago on sale for $200, so hell yeah I'm going tomorrow early and lining up an hour before doors open.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My argument isn't that the touchpad isn't a good device for $100. If I could get one for $100 or even $150 that would be great. But my comment is that some people miss out on the sales, and for some reason continue to pursue getting one, even if it means paying $250+ to get one from someone else who bought them for cheap. People are getting caught up in having to get a touchpad that they end up wasting lots of money on a subpar device.

Are you kidding
Everyone went and got these because they know stock android will be hacked onto it in no time.

When the rush dies, in a couple of months I am sure someone will be able to pick up one on ebay close to firesale price.
WebOS is a nice OS but it's DOA now. IF android Honeycomb or ICS gets ported then it's a good buy. If it's stuck to 2.* version, then no. Phone software on a 10" tablet is plain stupid.

Web os is not dead HP said that it would continue to develop the platform but was giving up on making the hardware. people who pay more than $250 for this out dated device are retarted just buy a nook color and root it you will have the same features and it has great development behind it
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App

NORCALkID said:
Web os is not dead HP said that it would continue to develop the platform but was giving up on making the hardware. people who pay more than $250 for this out dated device are retarted just buy a nook color and root it you will have the same features and it has great development behind it
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HP also said that it would be "double down" on WebOS products when bought Palm. HP also said that it would only release perfect products (TouchPad launched with bugs beyond belief).
I really have a hard time believing what they say...

I will agree the whole HP Touchpad deal is getting kind of ridiculous. I admit, I was checking everywhere for one... But I wasn't about to spend double the price of the markdowns. I am actually on mine now, but I paid $149 for it at best buy two days ago. I didn't buy mine to make money, but to put it to use. Now I'm waiting on the clever devs to port Android over. And, I agree give it a month or two, and we'll see the prices back down to where they should be.

narta said:
I really have a hard time believing what they say...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's that, then there's also that HP didn't even say what NORCALkID claims they did. They said, and I quote:
HP will continue to explore options to optimize the value of webOS software going forward.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is just buzzword bingo BS that says... nothing whatsoever.

ASUS 7" Nexus Tablet Discussion

I was surprised to not see a thread created already in General Discussion for this topic.
As AndroidandMe reported last week, ASUS was rumored to be creating the first Nexus branded Tablet with a price between $200-$250. As the week went on, more rumors swirled (and are starting to look pretty solid at this point) that ASUS will in fact be making the first Nexus (7") Tablet featuring stock Android 4.0, a dual-core Qualcomm processor (potentially the Snapdragon S4) and is looking to be priced at $149!
At this point, even though the first Nexus Tablet won't be a quad-core, this is looking like a really sweet deal. I personally will probably replace my Kindle Fire with this if the specs stand true.
Anyway, just figured I'd start a discussion. Here are some source links:
Initial Rumor
Digitime Echos Rumor of Nexus Tablet by ASUS
Source Says Tablet Is A "Done Deal"
Additional Article One
Additional Article Two

It does sound pretty good except I can't bring myself to pay more than $150 for a 7" tablet. I would pay $200 for a 10" tablet but no more than that. It might be because I got a TouchPad when it went on the fire sale. Now I want all tablets to be that price. I blame HP. LOL

Make it 10' -> (As screen is bigger, more allowed internal space, the price goes up).
I would pay $300 or $350 for a 64 Gb 10 inches screen.
Profit!!!

I am really curious to the specs the end result is going to have. Even more because this even lower price than said before. It sure is going to be a nice gadget.

If it is anything like the memo i can see this being a massive hit. Put in either an S4 or a Tegra 3 like the memo a 1280x800 IPS display and micro sd card and people will see this at a store then see the price then see it on their receipt. I myself have a transformer that's almost a year old and I would pick one of these up as my go to tablet and the TF as the work tablet (keyboard dock)
Would be good to see a Nexus tablet, there are no GED tablets out there*
Xoom doesn't count as it is ONLY the wifi version that was on sale in ONLY the United States. Though if they really want to to take off and go head to head with the dedicated 200~ tablets they need to improve their ecosystem, open up google movies, books and music to more countries

I would be very interested in a 10"+ tablet, 7" doesn't do it for me. Bigger the better.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

I'm not sure why people are talking about 10" tablets - aren't there plenty of those around? The 7" Nexus is clearly a direct response to Amazon's success with the Kindle Fire (if rumors are to be believed even Apple is paying attention), and in order to compete with it they need to be at $200 or below.
At $149 I doubt they will be using the S4/Krait, but we can always hope. In any case, I was more than a little tempted by some of the crappy ~$140 Chinese Cortex A8 tablets available. $149 for a Nexus tablet, even if it's only a dualcore Snapdragon S3, is an insane deal.

I do hope Google brings out two types of nexus Tablet. A $249 10 inch tablet and a 7 inch tablet at $149.
I think if they can do the two above and make the Tablets desirable I really think the Android Tablet ecosystem could really start to kick off

I already have a 10 inch tablet, but would very much consider this for a second. The Nexus is the selling point, as long as battery life were excellent I am on board.

Felimenta97 said:
Make it 10' -> (As screen is bigger, more allowed internal space, the price goes up).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But where would you put a 10 foot tablet?

im kind of disappointed if the memo370 is being discontinued and downgraded and being replaced with the rumors of the new specs. Google is obviously not liking the fact that the kindle is built off the blackberry playbook chassis and the tweaked OS that provides google with zero commission. In any case I hope they undercut the kindle fire in price if they do but its hard to say im looking forward to it when amazon is expected to come out with updates. Honestly, they need to come out with a 10" ipad killer that costs half the price or else they won't change the game.

It would really suck if this tablet replaces the asus memo. Me and my friends were all going to get one. And if this new nexus is just going to just be a dual core, then how is it any better than the nook tablet? They're probably going to get rid of the micro sd card slot like they've been doing. I'm just salty because I was looking forward to the memo

The last months, I began to get interested in Tablets and nearly bought a Lenovo Ideapad and a (shame on me) iPad, but i could resist. But when the rumours are true I buy one, even when its "only" a Dual-Core.
Normally I´m interested in a 10" (or more like the Samsung 11" and the Toshiba 13") , Quad core Tablet with Keyboard Dock. 7" is too small for a couch, but for rhis prize, with google Support I cant´t say no

Looks like this is being pushed back until July to try and shave off manufacturing cost to keep it at the $199 mark.

I've been looking to get a tablet for some general gaming and thought this might be a good one to look at. Hopefully the specs are decent otherwise I may have to pay a little extra for something that will play most games well.
Regardless though, it is good to see Google, Asus, Nvidia (and anyone else involved) trying to create tablets for the mainstream with good specs at a great price. This can only be good for the Play Store and the tablet market in the long run.

Windows RT....$200?!

According to a source at engadget.
http://m.engadget.com/2012/08/14/microsoft-surface-199/?icid=eng_latest_art

If it's true, then I am pre-ordering one!

I am still waiting for pricing on the pro but this sounds sweet, why not get both!
Sent from my Radio Shack TRS - 80

Now if the Pro were so nicely priced...

groaner said:
I am still waiting for pricing on the pro but this sounds sweet, why not get both!
Sent from my Radio Shack TRS - 80
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ronaldheld said:
Now if the Pro were so nicely priced...
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Click to collapse
I was waiting for the pro as well but how is this even remotely possible to be the price. A 10 inch tablet with decent specs . I will definitely buy at that price and if it stinks the kids will get it and its on to the pro for me.

I refuse to believe it. I'm still expecting $499 or around there and won't believe such ridiculously low prices unless they come with loads, and I mean loads, of evidence.

Yeah I sadly have to agree, especially since there aren't any other news sources corroborating the rumor. I would expect a price of at least $400 on this--although $199 would be awfully nice...

If it's $199 there needs to be some pay-off - a way to make the money back. When they did this with the Xbox they made money back from Xbox Live subs and software sales. In the case of Surface, if it costs $300 to bring each unit to market and they then go on to sell them for $199, they're gong to need to make at least $100 off each user. This won't happen from Windows Store revenue alone; Microsoft only bag a 30% cut (so on average, users would need to spend over $300 on the Store just to break even). They could be looking at a subscription model like the $99 Xbox 360? But what would they include? More SkyDrive storage? Office 365? Xbox Music? Unlike with the Xbox, there isn't any essential subscription to add on.

You forgett one thing. Market shares. How do you put a price on market share. The next model will have x amount of free sales depends of success and marketshare by surface.

It could easily be 200. Amazon did it with the Kindle and made thier money from book sales.
Microsoft will make it back in software from the surface store. That is if they get a solid backing from devs.
As was said above. Maybe I'll get this and get the pro after release.
Sent from my Radio Shack TRS - 80

groaner said:
It could easily be 200. Amazon did it with the Kindle and made thier money from book sales.
Microsoft will make it back in software from the surface store. That is if they get a solid backing from devs.
As was said above. Maybe I'll get this and get the pro after release.
Sent from my Radio Shack TRS - 80
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kindle Fire:
7" Display
1024 x 600 resolution
Last gen (even at the time it was released) 1 GHz dual-core A9 processor
512 MB RAM
8 GB storage
Micro-USB
No SD slot
No camera
Plastic
Surface RT:
10.6" Display
Likely 1080p resolution (or greater)
Full-sized USB
Micro SD slot
Built in kickstand
2 cameras
Proprietary VaporMg casing (vapor-deposited magnesium)
32 GB or 64 GB storage
Tegra 3+ likely
1-2 GB RAM
The Surface RT is not even remotely comparable to the Kindle Fire, and for that matter, even the Nexus 7, and people need to stop comparing those low-grade tablets to the RT. The only official thing we know about pricing from MS is that it is supposed to be priced similarly to comparable ARM tablets. Comparable ARM tablets are in the $499+ range, not anywhere near $200.
http://www.pc-tablet.com/4441-microsoft-surface-rt-tablet-200/
The casing and glass alone of the Surface RT is expected to cost $150. The entire BOM of the Kindle Fire was approximately $200. The BOM of the Surface RT should well exceed $300. It wouldn't just have to have a subscription model to be sold at $199, it would have to have a ridiculous subscription model to be sold at that price.
No one has even mentioned the other main red flag that pops up with this ridiculous rumored price: brand image. A $200 price tag is the absolute best thing for MS... if their main goal is to kill brand image. Yea, release hardware that is on par with $499-$699 devices and sell it for $200, that it just perfect if your goal is to cheapen brand image.
There's only 2 likely things to happen: 1) these low prices rumors are a bunch of BS (most likely), 2) an unexpectedly low price will be the actual price and it will be subsidized by a ludicrous subscription model.

The Janitor Mop said:
Kindle Fire:
7" Display
1024 x 600 resolution
Last gen (even at the time it was released) 1 GHz dual-core A9 processor
512 MB RAM
8 GB storage
Micro-USB
No SD slot
No camera
Plastic
Surface RT:
10.6" Display
Likely 1080p resolution (or greater)
Full-sized USB
Micro SD slot
Built in kickstand
2 cameras
Proprietary VaporMg casing (vapor-deposited magnesium)
32 GB or 64 GB storage
Tegra 3+ likely
1-2 GB RAM
The Surface RT is not even remotely comparable to the Kindle Fire, and for that matter, even the Nexus 7, and people need to stop comparing those low-grade tablets to the RT. The only official thing we know about pricing from MS is that it is supposed to be priced similarly to comparable ARM tablets. Comparable ARM tablets are in the $499+ range, not anywhere near $200.
http://www.pc-tablet.com/4441-microsoft-surface-rt-tablet-200/
The casing and glass alone of the Surface RT is expected to cost $150. The entire BOM of the Kindle Fire was approximately $200. The BOM of the Surface RT should well exceed $300. It wouldn't just have to have a subscription model to be sold at $199, it would have to have a ridiculous subscription model to be sold at that price.
No one has even mentioned the other main red flag that pops up with this ridiculous rumored price: brand image. A $200 price tag is the absolute best thing for MS... if their main goal is to kill brand image. Yea, release hardware that is on par with $499-$699 devices and sell it for $200, that it just perfect if your goal is to cheapen brand image.
There's only 2 likely things to happen: 1) these low prices rumors are a bunch of BS (most likely), 2) an unexpectedly low price will be the actual price and it will be subsidized by a ludicrous subscription model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Surface RT has a resolution of 1,366 x 768.

there is something here that just doesnt make sense
why is there a huge price difference
the new intel atoms will be fanless
so i dont see how it will be that more expensive
i guess they are pushing ARM tablets/Win8 for market adoption purposes

The Janitor Mop said:
Kindle Fire:
7" Display
1024 x 600 resolution
Last gen (even at the time it was released) 1 GHz dual-core A9 processor
512 MB RAM
8 GB storage
Micro-USB
No SD slot
No camera
Plastic
Surface RT:
10.6" Display
Likely 1080p resolution (or greater)
Full-sized USB
Micro SD slot
Built in kickstand
2 cameras
Proprietary VaporMg casing (vapor-deposited magnesium)
32 GB or 64 GB storage
Tegra 3+ likely
1-2 GB RAM
The Surface RT is not even remotely comparable to the Kindle Fire, and for that matter, even the Nexus 7, and people need to stop comparing those low-grade tablets to the RT. The only official thing we know about pricing from MS is that it is supposed to be priced similarly to comparable ARM tablets. Comparable ARM tablets are in the $499+ range, not anywhere near $200.
http://www.pc-tablet.com/4441-microsoft-surface-rt-tablet-200/
The casing and glass alone of the Surface RT is expected to cost $150. The entire BOM of the Kindle Fire was approximately $200. The BOM of the Surface RT should well exceed $300. It wouldn't just have to have a subscription model to be sold at $199, it would have to have a ridiculous subscription model to be sold at that price.
No one has even mentioned the other main red flag that pops up with this ridiculous rumored price: brand image. A $200 price tag is the absolute best thing for MS... if their main goal is to kill brand image. Yea, release hardware that is on par with $499-$699 devices and sell it for $200, that it just perfect if your goal is to cheapen brand image.
There's only 2 likely things to happen: 1) these low prices rumors are a bunch of BS (most likely), 2) an unexpectedly low price will be the actual price and it will be subsidized by a ludicrous subscription model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has already been announced that Intel tabs are gonna be $300 more than their RT counterparts. I'll edit with source as soon as I can.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda app-developers app

Dadstar said:
It has already been announced that Intel tabs are gonna be $300 more than their RT counterparts. I'll edit with source as soon as I can.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://m.engadget.com/2012/08/17/windows-8-rt-tablets-to-sell-for-300-less-says-lenovo/ I've got your source right here :thumbup:
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app

The Case for the $200 Surface RT Tablet
So we've heard about rumor. Along with the arguments. The prevailing chatter is that it's "too good to be true," that MS wouldn't be dumb enough to lose its shirt selling the RT tab for well under its cost, that it would damage its "brand image," that it would antagonize its partners, etc. etc.
All with good common sense, to be sure. We should heed the conventional wisdom of never selling below cost, and never upsetting our business partners, no?
It's also the conventional wisdom that Win RT, as version 1.0, will be buggy--against the polished, popular, and entrenched iPad. It's conventional to think that with a handful of apps, RT can't compete with iPad's established ecosystem. And it's very conventional to think that a "normally" priced Surface RT (same as iPad 2 or 3) will surely fail because of all these disadvantages. Again, conventional wisdom.
So, if following conventional wisdom, RT is doomed to a sure failure. And how much money will MS lose if RT fails? Would MS even survive if its touch initiative fails? How much money is MS' survival worth?
That's really the question to ask. Rather than worrying about a petty pittance of a loss leader, we should ask, how can MS succeed in its competition against the iPad. See the forest, not the trees.
There's one surefire way to sell tablets, no matter what the disadvantages: CHEAP. HP has proved it with the TouchPad. Amazon and Google did the same for the KF and N7. So MS will lose a few millions, or tens or hundreds of millions in a $199 Surface RT. Ask: Would MS lose more if RT fails? If MS itself fails?
How much did MS pay to Nokia to prop up Windows Phone? A few BILLION dollars? Is WP more important than RT? How much did MS invest in B&N Nook? A few HUNDRED MILLION dollars? Are ebooks more important than RT?
That's what the $199 Surface RT tablet would mean: An investment in MS' continued survival.
Now, to cover some of the arguments raised against it:
. It would damage its "brand image": As of now, Surface has no image to uphold. It's a new brand. And before you worry about "image" so much, think of the damage if Surface flops, just as all of the prior like-priced Android tabs that flopped. Should we worry about the brand image of the Zune? Or Kin?
. It would upset OEMs: And...what? They'll abandon Windows to support other platforms? Like they've ALREADY TRIED with Android, and Linux before that? Where else are they going to go? Apple?
People raised the cliched argument that you can't compete against your partners. It's bollocks. Businesses compete and cooperate with each other all the time. The term is coopetition. Look it up. (also try: frenemy). MS would not be alone in this. Google has already done this with the Nexus 7, and the Motorola acquisition.
As of now, there is no market for Windows RT. You can't have competitors if there's no market. Someone has to establish a market, and it can only be done by MS. Selling the Surface RT for $199 is one good way to do that.
This isn't to say that the $199 RT tablet will, or should happen. But it's a plausible option, and one I'm sure MS is pondering upon. Regardless of whatever failings it may have, MS still has good enough management who can see the forest, and ignore the hoi polloi worrying about a few measly trees.

e.mote said:
So we've heard about rumor. Along with the arguments. The prevailing chatter is that it's "too good to be true," that MS wouldn't be dumb enough to lose its shirt selling the RT tab for well under its cost, that it would damage its "brand image," that it would antagonize its partners, etc. etc.
All with good common sense, to be sure. We should heed the conventional wisdom of never selling below cost, and never upsetting our business partners, no?
It's also the conventional wisdom that Win RT, as version 1.0, will be buggy--against the polished, popular, and entrenched iPad. It's conventional to think that with a handful of apps, RT can't compete with iPad's established ecosystem. And it's very conventional to think that a "normally" priced Surface RT (same as iPad 2 or 3) will surely fail because of all these disadvantages. Again, conventional wisdom.
So, if following conventional wisdom, RT is doomed to a sure failure. And how much money will MS lose if RT fails? Would MS even survive if its touch initiative fails? How much money is MS' survival worth?
That's really the question to ask. Rather than worrying about a petty pittance of a loss leader, we should ask, how can MS succeed in its competition against the iPad. See the forest, not the trees.
There's one surefire way to sell tablets, no matter what the disadvantages: CHEAP. HP has proved it with the TouchPad. Amazon and Google did the same for the KF and N7. So MS will lose a few millions, or tens or hundreds of millions in a $199 Surface RT. Ask: Would MS lose more if RT fails? If MS itself fails?
How much did MS pay to Nokia to prop up Windows Phone? A few BILLION dollars? Is WP more important than RT? How much did MS invest in B&N Nook? A few HUNDRED MILLION dollars? Are ebooks more important than RT?
That's what the $199 Surface RT tablet would mean: An investment in MS' continued survival.
Now, to cover some of the arguments raised against it:
. It would damage its "brand image": As of now, Surface has no image to uphold. It's a new brand. And before you worry about "image" so much, think of the damage if Surface flops, just as all of the prior like-priced Android tabs that flopped. Should we worry about the brand image of the Zune? Or Kin?
. It would upset OEMs: And...what? They'll abandon Windows to support other platforms? Like they've ALREADY TRIED with Android, and Linux before that? Where else are they going to go? Apple?
People raised the cliched argument that you can't compete against your partners. It's bollocks. Businesses compete and cooperate with each other all the time. The term is coopetition. Look it up. (also try: frenemy). MS would not be alone in this. Google has already done this with the Nexus 7, and the Motorola acquisition.
As of now, there is no market for Windows RT. You can't have competitors if there's no market. Someone has to establish a market, and it can only be done by MS. Selling the Surface RT for $199 is one good way to do that.
This isn't to say that the $199 RT tablet will, or should happen. But it's a plausible option, and one I'm sure MS is pondering upon. Regardless of whatever failings it may have, MS still has good enough management who can see the forest, and ignore the hoi polloi worrying about a few measly trees.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
markets:
laptop
ultra tiny pc
some phone (since wp7 didn't happen)
ipad ( like it or not, ownage)
some android 10" tab
some Android 7" tab
ohhhhhhh loooook 4.5" phone/tab!
wayyyyy up there, ultra tiny laptops happened. they run full windows ( or Linux, or Mac os, or bad) and cost $239.
where is the market for a ultra ultra tiny, non-full-os, fragile, too big to pocket ... machine?
the pro/dev device makes more sense, but surface at $5-700 , the ipad is a 800 lb gorilla in the room again, and much cheaper.
edited, guessing surface price lower

emote: very good, convincing points. I am now convinced that MS just might do this. $199 cheap? I'm still very hesitant, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised anymore if they released it at around $300 and not the $500 I have been expecting.
I still think $199 cheapens brand image. You have to understand what I mean: of course it isn't coming in and making an already established, and presumably high quality, brand cheaper. Yes, it is the first product of its brand for MS. What I mean is that it is coming in and instantly making that brand cheap. So, instead of cheapening an already established thing, it is the establishing thing and it is establishing the image of that brand as cheap out of the gates. Most $199 tablets are small. The Surface RT will be compared to the iPad because it is iPad sized. When people look at them side by side, and see the Surface is less than half the cost, they will absolutely you-cannot-contradict-this think it must be inferior to the iPad.
Basically: Apple has been building BMWs for a while. MS is just now entering the car game, and their first model is an Audi, on par with Apple's BMW. Except MS priced it like a Honda, and so everyone is confused and thinks Apple's BMW must be way better.

>I still think $199 cheapens brand image...it is the establishing thing and it is establishing the image of that brand as cheap out of the gates
Do you think Google's Nexus brand is cheapened because of the $199 N7? How about any subsequent tablet from HP because of the $99 TouchPad? Do you expect every HP tablet to be $99 from now on?
The first priority is the product's success, and whatever else comes after. If Surface RT flops, it won't matter what its brand image is.
For MS, even the product (Surface) isn't as important as the market. If Surface needs to be the sacrificial lamb so MS can establish Win RT, then it will happen. An easy fix to that is for Surface to become a "cheap" brand, and to establish a new "premium" brand. Remember, there is yet no equity invested in the Surface name.
>When people look at them side by side, and see the Surface is less than half the cost, they will absolutely you-cannot-contradict-this think it must be inferior to the iPad.
Then using your example, a Honda must be inferior to a BMW, since it costs less?
Obviously, that's not true in every aspect, or even in many aspects. The Honda is better in some things--reliability, practicality, fuel efficiency, bang/buck, etc. Each caters to a different demographic. Similarly, Nexus 7 can do some things better than iPad, and some worse. It's not as popular, but "inferior" is not in the perception mix. Ditto for a $199 RT if that happens.
How MS prices the RT depends on what it wants to do with the Surface line. If Surface was intended as a tech template for OEMs to follow rather than to grab market share, then price will be ~$500, and sales will be lackluster. But if the rumor is true of 3 million Surface tablets being made, this isn't the intent.
By tying the tablet platform to its Windows cash cow, MS was hoping to leverage the Windows userbase to push its tablet effort. But many indications are that Win8 itself will have a mixed reception, so it has no coattail to ride. There is precious little else MS can use to establish WinRT as a platform, other than going for low price. Google did the same for Nexus 7, and it's working so far.
I agree that a $199 RT isn't cast in stone, but it looks to be under consideration, rather than being another net rumor. Acer's CEO didn't just pull the $199 price point out of a hat in his rant against Surface. He must have been privy to the memo.

car analogies.... great!
toyota, honda introduce hybrids. not really electric, not really full size... ape **** demand, they sell and run forever.
skip forward TEN PLUS YEARS
Chevrolet: HEY LOOK WE MADE A HYBRID TOO!!! (fanfare, loud lies about paying back the loan, loud promises about being a new, swift corporation)
no one cares.
the price point matters about as much as if its painted brown or beige. getting to market while there still is indecision is the key. there is very little indecision now, today, when people look for a tablet.
ipad ... owns
someandroidthing..... 2nd place
surface ..... customer Google's, sees its really a $40000 table, not a tablet... back to I pad vs android.
next

I thnk that surface deployments will pick up after black friday

I say this because BestBuy is offering the RT for only $199.99 that puts it on par with almost all the other budget tablets. I may get a couple for the family at that price...

buffalosolja42 said:
I say this because BestBuy is offering the RT for only $199.99 that puts it on par with almost all the other budget tablets. I may get a couple for the family at that price...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...I bought the 64GB RT for that price; indeed the 32GB model is tempting, too (for family). I wonder, though, if fighting the Windows 8 fight is worth it just yet (for them). Heck I wonder if it is worth it for me!

Been looking for a time to get rid of my old TF101, I just wish that certain companies like amazon would give us the correct sync when reading and I think I would be good as well as access to our uploaded books like android. I also am waiting on one android app for handling pdfs and I am gone in a heartbeat.

Got 5 tablets from best buy and it is worth it so far. Loving it

buffalosolja42 said:
I say this because BestBuy is offering the RT for only $199.99 that puts it on par with almost all the other budget tablets. I may get a couple for the family at that price...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got one for the 199.99 on black Friday and love it. They sold out quick

Tf701 price

I don't get why the 701 cost so much particularly when compared to the t100. I'm not trying for a fanboy flame war. I'm looking at the stats. The 100 has a price drop on amazon to $299. The 701 is about $440. 100 runs full windows 8.1 while 701 has "free" android. The 100 is way behind on screen Res. Small plus to cpu, 100 is 1.86 and 701 is 1.9. 100 comes with 64 internal memory while at this price 701 has 32. Most other features are close or equal. One of The biggest differnce is the 100 comes with the keyboard. 140 or so for the 701.
Why is there a 280 dollar price difference?
The is no reason to think asus would not make its windows tablet as good as the android and maybe quality control is higher to keep a presence in market.
The price and features make this a very compelling tablet. Even refurbished the 700 with keyboard is more expensive.
So why is the 701 so expensive? If it was priced with keyboard the other features might explain why, but without it, it makes no sense to me.
Woody
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 4

woodsonmh said:
I don't get why the 701 cost so much particularly when compared to the t100. I'm not trying for a fanboy flame war. I'm looking at the stats. The 100 has a price drop on amazon to $299. The 701 is about $440. 100 runs full windows 8.1 while 701 has "free" android. The 100 is way behind on screen Res. Small plus to cpu, 100 is 1.86 and 701 is 1.9. 100 comes with 64 internal memory while at this price 701 has 32. Most other features are close or equal. One of The biggest differnce is the 100 comes with the keyboard. 140 or so for the 701.
Why is there a 280 dollar price difference?
The is no reason to think asus would not make its windows tablet as good as the android and maybe quality control is higher to keep a presence in market.
The price and features make this a very compelling tablet. Even refurbished the 700 with keyboard is more expensive.
So why is the 701 so expensive? If it was priced with keyboard the other features might explain why, but without it, it makes no sense to me.
Woody
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the UK the TF701 is very reasonably priced. £429 with dock. Especially considering it is top of the range. The TF100 is a budget windows convertible. Screen res is lower, no battery in dock, CPU is ok, etc? Here in UK it is £349 so not that much cheaper.

sbdags said:
In the UK the TF701 is very reasonably priced. £429 with dock. Especially considering it is top of the range. The TF100 is a budget windows convertible. Screen res is lower, no battery in dock, CPU is ok, etc? Here in UK it is £349 so not that much cheaper.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My amazon price was a one day only price, the price is back to reg price us which if i figure right is similar to your uk price.
Its not completely the budget line because its running win 8.1 not rt and comes with office home and students, which is a much better office pack than anything on android and sells for $100 us. With office you get big boy package and includes the very popular with students Notes.
It has been reviewed pretty favorably, except for keyboard. If it happens to run as well as my tf300, i could be happy with it particularly if i were a budget minded student.
I'm not getting one. I just wish 701 with keyboard was 100 dollars cheaper.
Besides that i wouldn't be able to look forward to 701 improvements by the most notable Sbdags.
Woody
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 4

The Tf100 is a watered down a Windows 8 device. The hardware is not the same and reflected in the price point Asus was aiming for with the tablet. Simply put, the Tf701 is the better device with more advanced components. If you want a cheaper Asus android device then they do make them.

I was wondering the same thing. I want a tablet running win 8.x but it needs to run adobe cc at least a little. The 100 having full MS OFFICE is a very attractive feature & ability.
Good topic thx...
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