I can run all my games just fine. How does not having driver support for ice cream sandwich affect my g2x? Is it affecting my framerate in games at all and I'm not noticing.
The lack of drivers means done things don't work (like video recording) and others don't work right (strange graphical glitches in ICS)
I posted this in another thread, it kinda applies here too...
the problem most of the time comes from how the rom interacts with the hardware.
when an app needs to do something, it calls a function (for example turn on wifi) the rom gets this call and passes it to the kernel. the kernel then passes this call to the hardware which powers on the wifi.
APP>ROM>KERNEL>HARDWARE
a problem can occur at any point in that chain. the app can call a function that does not exist in that version of android, or the rom can call part of the kernel which is not there, or the kernel can try to do something that cant be done hardware wise.
oversimplifying it, porting a version of android is basically matching the function calls from the rom, to that of a kernel that works for this phone.
Now, alot of the problems we have been having with ICS on our phones is because of Hardware Acceleration. we have no offical kernel that supports it. without that we have no way for the calls from the rom to get to the hardware.
the INCREDIBLE devs at Cyanogen figured this out, they wrote those functions themselves. the part that makes this incredible is the fact that they did not know what to call, or where to send it. they had to guess at EVERYTHING! unfornately this also causes problems, while they may have gotten the functions 90% correct, 10% is still wrong. and that is what is most likely causing problems for us. (a stupid example i saw once is that they made a new brightness driver, but it was off by 1 number, so most of the brightness settings would work, but if you tried to set it to 0, it would really set it to -1 and all hell would break loose)
The reason it works so well for windows, is because when a hardware manufacturer makes a piece of hardware (wifi card) they also provide drivers that are pre-made for that version of windows, that way windows can call on standard functions, and that driver will answer those calls! unlike computers, phones very rarely switch hardware, so the hardware manufacturers only give the information of how to make drivers to the phone manufacturers
i hope you get what im trying to say.... i tend to ramble
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2
i get what youre saying but why cant we take them from gingerbread?
swordsx48 said:
i get what youre saying but why cant we take them from gingerbread?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what the devs did ie (legacy drivers = GB drivers) but ICS is so different from GB that drivers had to be rewritten that why some phones aren't getting ICS because some Manufacturers don't want to waste time writing them and then they want us to buy new phones. My 2¢
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5
[email protected] said:
That's what the devs did ie (legacy drivers = GB drivers) but ICS is so different from GB that drivers had to be rewritten that why some phones aren't getting ICS because some Manufacturers don't want to waste time writing them and then they want us to buy new phones. My 2¢
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@ [email protected] Well said.
If you really want to take the time you can find drivers anywhere as well as the source codes for ICS (CM9.) Or you can find a rom that has the drivers already included. For example, CM9, HFS,EB, etc. The list goes on.
One other thing I've noticed about not having hardware acceleration in ICS is you can tell which apps are trying to call on it. Or at least I think.
For instance, the camera works fine from the stock camera app. But the new Facebook app installs a 'Camera' shortcut that is supposed to make sharing directly to facebook easier. Problem is, when I use that....it starts, flickers, and then crashes out.
Now, on Gingerbread, /with/ hardware acceleration.....it works just fine. So it's definitely going to be something we /need/ for ICS.
My 2 cents anyhow.
ke4peo said:
Now, on Gingerbread, /with/ hardware acceleration.....it works just fine. So it's definitely going to be something we /need/ for ICS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know that gingerbread has Hardware Acceleration!!??!
NO GB 2.3 (as far as I know) has any HA, the facebook thing could just be the fact that facebook is a crappy app in general lol. I do know it isn't caused by lack of "true" Hardware Acceleration.
Apps such as games have their own set of acceleration. Video cam illusion has its own. System apps like camera, browser, video recording use the systems ha instead of their own. Some non system apps require it. also mainly apps specific to ics require it as well.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
mt3g said:
I didn't know that gingerbread has Hardware Acceleration!!??!
NO GB 2.3 (as far as I know) has any HA, the facebook thing could just be the fact that facebook is a crappy app in general lol. I do know it isn't caused by lack of "true" Hardware Acceleration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant that GB has the drivers and takes advantage of the Tegra hardware in the phone. ICS doesn't.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
IMO if was a master coder ( I mean like the Steven Hawkings of coding) I would take the GB drivers and strip them down to binary and then figure out how they talk to the hardware on the lowest level. Then I would take the ICS drivers for the Gnex and do the same thing so I can see how the drivers work in a perfect situation. Then I would take the ICS drivers for a Tegra 2 tablet and do it again and basically modify the GB drivers or modify the ICS tablet drivers, combine the two or write my own drivers and I know I would be finished before LG releases ics
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2 Beta-5
ke4peo said:
I meant that GB has the drivers and takes advantage of the Tegra hardware in the phone. ICS doesn't.
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gingerbread does not take advantage of the Nvidia Dual Core. This is why we are wanting Drivers released for ICS so it can.
Related
Hi all,
I recently upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy S, and I am wondering if you guys would know anything fun to do with a Samsung Jet S8000.
I installed Android from a project called JetDroid, and its pretty nice to have it on the phone, even if it isnt functional as a phone while in Android mode. I'm just wondering if there are any other similar projects out there.
I did a search for similar topics, but it seems that the Jet was a really unpopular phone as I cant find much info about it online.
Well, it was very limited (just a basic phone that happened to run Java2E). Not as smart as its advertising considering it was advertised as "Smater than a smartphone". But the base hardware is pretty nice.
Thank in advance for any replies
Nice to see other s8000 user here.
I still use my Jet today and im still waiting for usable Jetdroid version.
This device was very good for its time and the SoC plus RAM it as can run Android better than the current low end Android devices out there. Its a shame that Samsung dind at least upgrade the OS on the Jet to Bada OS.
Also samy drop support (updates) for it too soon imo.
As a multimedia device it is still pretty usefull...
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA
Hey. Yeah I still use my jet as my second phone when abroad.
I saw a lower end android device ( vodafone smart -comparing 2008 hardware to 2011) and even thought the jet has a hugely unoptimised android install, still ran more smoothly in terms of gui compared to the vodafone smart... but also crashes a lot and was hard to install.
Pity Samsung rarely support their devices which are more than 2 years old. Even now my sgs is not going to get an official ICS update. (Not concerned as I have not used a stock Samsung firmware on a ling time).
Sent from my GT-I9000 running CM9 (ICS 4.0.4) using XDA premium app
Samy drop the suport for theyr products too soon
The Jet as a better SoC than my wife Ideos X3 (huawei) and a longuer battery life (running the stock OS).
Also the Jet does video call out of the box and the low end Android devices do not (and i cant understand why because many of them have front cameras).
i've tried Jetdroid but its not a viable option yet... :'(
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA
I just got an email claiming a vast improvement to jetdroid based on cm7. I haven't tested it yet but I am very excited!
Sent from my GT-I9000 running CM9 (ICS 4.0.4) using XDA premium app
drakenabarion said:
I just got an email claiming a vast improvement to jetdroid based on cm7. I haven't tested it yet but I am very excited!
Sent from my GT-I9000 running CM9 (ICS 4.0.4) using XDA premium app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Going to try it. thks for the info.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA
Hi Folks
I've just been given a broken s8000,
The digitizer has failed (screen still works fine). I've not physically opened it up yet so It could of just come loose, either way they're about £5 off ebay so It will be functioning again and
it does look like a very promising device to have a play around with. like has been mentioned, better than some current low end devices.
For anyone who's interested I've just done spent an hour get up to speed on development of the JetDroid project, because lets be honest, That's where the fun's at.
I first found http://code.google.com/p/jetdroid/ which made it looks like the project has been abandoned. This google code project yielded better results.
There's probably an "executive" overview of the project some that I've missed I did also notice that HTC Sense had been ported to It, I don't know whether they ported the bloat with it as well. Lol
Still no sim access from what I can gather as of they Status update on 2012-01-24 Is that correct?
Yes that's right. It works OK as an android device but no phone function at all yet.
When I get home, I will link the jetdroid forums. From what I can tell, everything is happening behind the scenes so there isn't much on the lines of public updates.
Sent from my GT-I9000 running CM9 (ICS 4.0.4) using XDA premium app
Ay, I found the forums and gathered that myself, The activity is intermittent but the lastest kernel was released in April so it's still current.
Although I keep reading that JetDroid isn't finished, they've been at it 2 years.
I think i'll ask the devs the technicalities of the sim issue. I'll at least have a stab at it. I'll probably fail and fail hard but I could do with knowing a bit more about simcard internals.
I guess it has something to do with how the jet handles the sim card. From my reading about it, its done in a propriety way, which makes sense cause the whole system was written around a touch wizard complete os.
So its likely going to need lots of reverse engineering. Much like the ril module on an i9000 was reverse engineered in order to get ril functions to work due to lack of sources.
I personally have no ability when it comes to this type if hardware coding. If the jet has more users interested in installing android, I think it would have already happened.
I definitely look forward for whatever breakthrough might happen.
Sent from my GT-I9000 running CM9 (ICS 4.0.4) using XDA premium app
iv got a Jet recently and its running the oldest firmware version on it:
<SW VER>
S8000XXIG1
<CSC VER>
S8000OXAIG1(ED002)
<FFS VER>
XEU
how do i go about updating it to the latest one? i read the newer firmware has lots of changes. and fixes.
slybunda said:
iv got a Jet recently and its running the oldest firmware version on it:
<SW VER>
S8000XXIG1
<CSC VER>
S8000OXAIG1(ED002)
<FFS VER>
XEU
how do i go about updating it to the latest one? i read the newer firmware has lots of changes. and fixes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I recently updated the firmware on my Jet. I used a guide here http://darkforestgroup.com/forum/index.php/topic,7464.0.html
I installed the Firmware using the guide there and a program called Multiloader_V5.62 which I downloaded from the site.
I had to google to find the correct firmware because many of the download links on the site no longer work and a couple I tried kept forcing shutting the phone down when on a call I'm now using version S8000XPJA1 which is working fine. I found it by googling for it. Beware of 'dodgy' down load sites though
Also I'm in the UK and I think the country you are in affects which firmware you should use so check first.
Goodluck
I know we just got 2.3.3 but I'm just wandering why they getting an update so fast and who knows when we will get another one
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Probably never, there are rumors of the g2x getting ICS 4.0 sometime, although that is highly unlikely. You can try out CM7 for 2.3.5.
What he said
LG and T-Mobile won't come out with any updates. LG releasing the source code, they abandoned support.
XDA is only reason this phone gets any kind of love and support.
There is hardly anything noticeable between 2.3.3, 2.3.4, and 2.3.5.
If you want a newer version, do a custom rom. I can't understand why people, on XDA especially, fight so hard to stay on a stock rom that is old and lacking. My neighbor bought a G2x the other day and I NVFlashed his phone in like 4 minutes (mostly due to downloading and finding the XDA thread for the NVFlasher).
Gingerbread is available in a plethera of roms for our device. I'd much rather LG focus their efforts on a timely ICS release.
I just wish nvidia would release drivers. I would love a2dp on the newer roms
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Mister Hat said:
Probably never, there are rumors of the g2x getting ICS 4.0 sometime, although that is highly unlikely. You can try out CM7 for 2.3.5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What information are you basing this on? I don't have any proof that you're wrong, but then again I don't believe you have any proof that you're right either.
player911 said:
I'd much rather LG focus their efforts on a timely ICS release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree completely. This hardware won't be outaded any time soon. It has a lot of power. Hopefully LG will do a better job with the next update.
phburks said:
I agree completely. This hardware won't be outaded any time soon. It has a lot of power. Hopefully LG will do a better job with the next update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope we don't get 2.3.4 or 2.3.6 if that comes. I want LG to just focus on getting out 2.4 as near as available as possible. All the learning from vanilla with driver fixes should make 2.4 a snap.
At this point nothing about 2.3 any variants makes any difference after 2.3.3
The G2X vanilla should easily be able to handle Android 4, or 2.4 whatever its named sandwich. The hardware is spec. And should be able to get onto the next version after Ice Cream, at that time it will be like a basic model that can still easily support.
I am expecting 2 more full releases on the phone, as the cost for LG to do, with the drivers worked out, should be very minimal.
Worse case, LG can license a custom ROM, and toss that out for a couple hundred K. 2 man years cost.
jnralp00 said:
I just wish nvidia would release drivers. I would love a2dp on the newer roms
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont understand what is that if nvidia releases driver, whats a2dp is?
gypsy214 said:
i dont understand what is that if nvidia releases driver, whats a2dp is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bluetooth = a2dp
gypsy214 said:
i dont understand what is that if nvidia releases driver, whats a2dp is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Streaming audio via bluetooth
That's what she said...
even though
tombaker1 said:
I hope we don't get 2.3.4 or 2.3.6 if that comes. I want LG to just focus on getting out 2.4 as near as available as possible. All the learning from vanilla with driver fixes should make 2.4 a snap.
At this point nothing about 2.3 any variants makes any difference after 2.3.3
The G2X vanilla should easily be able to handle Android 4, or 2.4 whatever its named sandwich. The hardware is spec. And should be able to get onto the next version after Ice Cream, at that time it will be like a basic model that can still easily support.
I am expecting 2 more full releases on the phone, as the cost for LG to do, with the drivers worked out, should be very minimal.
Worse case, LG can license a custom ROM, and toss that out for a couple hundred K. 2 man years cost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is nice to see you post something other than the CAL... if you really think LG is gonna release anything other than maybe a small updae which i also doubt. maybe youll join with the CAL.. This is it even LG has said they dont even plan on bringing out the camera appp which i thought they would at least do.
As burk said no proof either way. But history means a lot and sicne this debacle i have looked at lg and see this has been nothing new with them. and Updates have been only carrier pushed for bugs from what i have read.
Yes it would be nice to see something new and great for the phone from LG but dont hold your breath.
hmmm
I would rather LG focus on getting all the bugs fix with this phone rather than releaseing a new os version for it plauged with the same issues and froyo and gingerbread
My neighbor bought an airplane... I need to get a spaceship...
Sent from my Calculator with Android.
i only want them to give us 2.3.4 because of gtalk video chat.. other then that i can careless. i know we can get it with custom roms but i actually love the stock rooted gingerbread rom. this is the only time i actually love the stock rom lol
s10shane said:
i only want them to give us 2.3.4 because of gtalk video chat.. other then that i can careless. i know we can get it with custom roms but i actually love the stock rooted gingerbread rom. this is the only time i actually love the stock rom lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldn't actually work since gtalk works using NEON which our processors don't have. I haven't tried the alternatives (like vtalk our vtok, something like that) but they don't apparently work well. google has to fix it unless there's been a development I missed.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
After the fiasco of 2.3.3, LG is never going to touch this phone ever again. It's dead in the water for all they care, and Tmo isn't going to pressure them into updating because they're focused on pimping the Sensation right now.
CyanogenMod is the only way this phone will ever see ICS, I would put money on that.
Sent from my Nexus Prime using XDA Ultimate App
Danishswag said:
Wouldn't actually work since gtalk works using NEON which our processors don't have. I haven't tried the alternatives (like vtalk our vtok, something like that) but they don't apparently work well. google has to fix it unless there's been a development I missed.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vtok has been working well with me. Gtalk mod works but with back camera.
Sent from my Calculator with Android.
LordButtersI said:
After the fiasco of 2.3.3, LG is never going to touch this phone ever again. It's dead in the water for all they care, and Tmo isn't going to pressure them into updating because they're focused on pimping the Sensation right now.
CyanogenMod is the only way this phone will ever see ICS, I would put money on that.
Sent from my Nexus Prime using XDA Ultimate App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because of some impatient g2x owners.
Sent from my Calculator with Android.
jose makalolot said:
Because of some impatient g2x owners.
Sent from my Calculator with Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, because they don't know what the hell they are doing.
I haven't seem any vanilla android roms for this phone so what's wrong with it? I planned on getting one but not so sure anymore.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
It's not a single problem with this device , but the stock OS Froyo came out in 2008 so it's pretty old , but samsung modified it to the way they want it , don't get me wrong there's no vanilla device's but there are modified froyo device's that are great , we don't have gingerbread yet .
So why is it so hard to port a gingerbread Tom? I'm not a developer or anything just wondering
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Porting Gingerbread is difficult because that would require rewriting all of the specially designed drivers for the sidekick for the GB kernel.
Vanilla ports are difficult because they rely on a stock styled framework, which due to the way the drivers were written, is very different on the sidekick.
you would have to rewrite alot of thing's including driver's that's why where using froyo .
Oh ok...so even vanilla froyo isn't gonna happen?
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
I'm working on CM6, my hangup is with the camera/camcorder driver system, the way they defined camera parts is very bizarre. AOSP froyo/CM6 are on-again-off-again projects for me, they will just require more work than other phones have in the past (or maybe I'm just not experienced in CM, who knows).
Hmm interesting. Well thanks for the replies guys. I think I'm just gonna get the g2. Even though I love you guys for your work I feel like the g2 is gonna have a lot more options especially with ics. Again thanks.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
Why would they code this phone differently than the other Galaxy S series phones? Is it the keyboard? I'm beginning to wonder if Samsung knew what they were doing when they built this phone...it's TM's last of the 4G Galaxy phones to be upgraded to GB, and when I lurk the TM forums it's just nothing but negativity towards it. I'm glad I root/ROM. It saved me from the massive fit I would have thrown at Magenta.
And while I'm here, vick, how's the SGS4G code looking? Is it as "close" to the SK as you thought it was?
Well yes and no, the sgs4g has the same processor, so that portion of the kernel was done for me, but the screen driver wasn't yet built for GB, and would require significant tweaking. I have been working on finals around here for classes, hopefully I'll find some time shortly to continue working on it.
Okay, maybe someone will know the answer to this.
Every single ICS rom I've tried... and I'm pretty sure that's all of them... has had abysmal performance playing flash video through a browser. I'm talking from
jt's original ICS... to
Entropy's ICS...to
uniporn
jblparisi's
remixICS
etc. etc.
Now, just to be clear... all of those ROMs that I mentioned I thoroughly enjoy... they had/have a lot of work put into them, and I thank the devs.
But this puzzles me... I had perfect flash video playback on a number of GB roms... notably AEON... now we move to ICS... and it's incapable of doing the same thing?
Also, whatever the problem is, it is some kind of common thread that runs through every ICS release for the infuse. I've tested. There is no example of this problem not being present.
Anyone have information, or a solution, or have noticed this problem themselves?
Thanks
I do agree with your statement.
I think this is due to the Wi-Fi and data speeds. Unlike GB ROMs, build.prop has not yet been extensively looked at in ICS ROMs. Network speed drops can be expected going from GB to ICS.
Again, this is just my opinion. Do not take my word for it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using xda premium
You have a good point there, build.prop was not something that had occurred to me.
The only thing that makes me suspicious of that particular theory is...surely all the ICS roms can't have the same build.prop settings, right? So if it was coming from there, I guess I'd be expecting to see some roms performing better or worse than others... and yet when it comes to flash video, they are pretty consistently bad, with little variation.
Thanks for the idea though, I hope that you're right and that this is just something that can be fixed by build.prop rewrites.
You do have adobe flash player installed right? Unlike gingerbread roms I don't know of an ics Rom that comes with flash player installed...when I had the infuse as soon as I installed flash player I never had a problem with flash videos...also I never had a problem with slower network speeds...
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda app-developers app
mg2195 said:
You do have adobe flash player installed right? Unlike gingerbread roms I don't know of an ics Rom that comes with flash player installed...when I had the infuse as soon as I installed flash player I never had a problem with flash videos...also I never had a problem with slower network speeds...
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehehe yeah I'm not that much of a fool =P
I tested everything I'm talking about with flash player installed. ICS can't deal with the video, it sticks and sputters like a broken faucet... super choppy, stops and starts... etc.
I can't testify 100% but I'm pretty sure that my data speeds on ICS are reduced as compared to GB roms.
With Wi-Fi, however, I think the speeds are comparable.
If this was happening on a PC, I could fix it. My first thought would be video driver issues, so I would remove all traces and then install the newest version.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple on Android...
I've read tons of discussions with Entropy and others talking about the video libs, and I remember that while the idea of "perfect smooth video" sounds like something that should be easy/simple to accomplish... it's actually a pretty deep rabbit hole. It seemed to me it's a fairly complex problem that draws on a lot of areas and takes a lot of work to get right.
I just wonder what this could be... what did GB have that ICS doesn't?
thanks for the reply, mg =)
dht2005 said:
Hehehe yeah I'm not that much of a fool =P
I tested everything I'm talking about with flash player installed. ICS can't deal with the video, it sticks and sputters like a broken faucet... super choppy, stops and starts... etc.
I can't testify 100% but I'm pretty sure that my data speeds on ICS are reduced as compared to GB roms.
With Wi-Fi, however, I think the speeds are comparable.
If this was happening on a PC, I could fix it. My first thought would be video driver issues, so I would remove all traces and then install the newest version.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple on Android...
I've read tons of discussions with Entropy and others talking about the video libs, and I remember that while the idea of "perfect smooth video" sounds like something that should be easy/simple to accomplish... it's actually a pretty deep rabbit hole. It seemed to me it's a fairly complex problem that draws on a lot of areas and takes a lot of work to get right.
I just wonder what this could be... what did GB have that ICS doesn't?
thanks for the reply, mg =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...ics is aosp/aokp...so it is highly likely it could be missing some video libs and what not...off the top of ky head I know for a fact that gb has TWframeworks as well as many different libs...I have no infuse to test the choppy video so when I say i never expiernced it that is just based off my memory...basically what in getting at is that your theory is possible
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda app-developers app
Thanks! yeah, I'm no android expert, I'm just going by what makes sense to me.
Assuming just for a second that video libs were in fact the issue...I have a couple questions.
Is there anyone who would know how to identify the specific source of the problem?
Is there any more information I could somehow get/provide that might help?
Or is this just the kind of issue where... ICS is pretty new still, and in time it will probably be fixed? (wait & see)
dht2005 said:
Thanks! yeah, I'm no android expert, I'm just going by what makes sense to me.
Assuming just for a second that video libs were in fact the issue...I have a couple questions.
Is there anyone who would know how to identify the specific source of the problem?
Is there any more information I could somehow get/provide that might help?
Or is this just the kind of issue where... ICS is pretty new still, and in time it will probably be fixed? (wait & see)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well logcats always help...those say exactly what your phone is doing and provide all errors your phone is receiving...from what I've seen, pony (the guy providing logcats for the miui build) is good with logcats...but he's busy with miui. I'm not even sure if you would find anything useful in the logcat anyway since it is somewhat working...I'm sure it will be fixed in time though
So if you know how to logcat then get one and see what it says...if not than just wait, I'm sure someone will end up working on a fix
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda app-developers app
Hey, I'm a noob, let's get that out of the way first.
Alright, so I'd like to know, why is it so hard to get special ROMs working on certain devices?
For example, I have an Evo 3D (HTC Evo V 4G, whatever), so why is it so hard to get, say, stock ICS running on it?
Inthe end, isn't the hardware all the same, other than say processors and screen size? To get a stock ICS ROM working, couldn't you just pull it off of a similar phone with an S3 processor and a 4.3 inch screen?
Or is it not that simple? Are different codes baked into the hardware that make it impossible to just modify the pixel density, size of the screen and have the ROM work with the processors?
I understand the cameras are different, hence cameras not working on early builds of CM9... but considering many phones run the same processors, couldn't they just all work?
Please explain... thanks, thebeastglasser.
thebeastglasser said:
Hey, I'm a noob, let's get that out of the way first.
Alright, so I'd like to know, why is it so hard to get special ROMs working on certain devices?
For example, I have an Evo 3D (HTC Evo V 4G, whatever), so why is it so hard to get, say, stock ICS running on it?
Inthe end, isn't the hardware all the same, other than say processors and screen size? To get a stock ICS ROM working, couldn't you just pull it off of a similar phone with an S3 processor and a 4.3 inch screen?
Or is it not that simple? Are different codes baked into the hardware that make it impossible to just modify the pixel density, size of the screen and have the ROM work with the processors?
I understand the cameras are different, hence cameras not working on early builds of CM9... but considering many phones run the same processors, couldn't they just all work?
Please explain... thanks, thebeastglasser.
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Is not that easy! I'm an EVO user/rom porter and I hear this alot where users such as yourself think is an easy process BUT is not. Same processor, same screen size maybe the same BUT at times the kernel is not there. Either the kernel for the device doesn't support ROM A or ROM B and therefore it can't be ported to whatever device or the libs keep it from running half way decent.....i.e WiFi doesn't work, sound is **** up or whatever the case maybe...just not functional to say the least.
Take for example Sense 4.0 on the One V....it was ported to the EVO4g and the ROM barely works! Both the One V and the EVO4g have similar hardware but one runs Sense 4.0 like a dream and the other one struggles with simple things like WiFi and Sound.
Now I'm sure someone else with a bit more knowledge on this can get into the specifics and the why's and what's of WHY this can't happen BUT that's it in a nut shell.....the kernel and 9/10 times libs
See ya around dude!
Hey first off, thanks! Second...
Another question then. If they all have relatively similar hardware, why isn't it that a universal kernel for similar phones can't be created?
Or better explained, what about the phone, makes it so that the kernel doesn't work? Or why couldn't you just take the kernel from device A and shove it on device B?
Sorry if I'm overloading you with questions, but hey I'm curious. Ya know?
EDIT: Or if they're practically both the same phones, why is it that you can't just take the ROM AND the kernel from phone A and put it onto phone B?
thebeastglasser said:
Hey first off, thanks! Second...
Another question then. If they all have relatively similar hardware, why isn't it that a universal kernel for similar phones can't be created?
Or better explained, what about the phone, makes it so that the kernel doesn't work? Or why couldn't you just take the kernel from device A and shove it on device B?
Sorry if I'm overloading you with questions, but hey I'm curious. Ya know?
EDIT: Or if they're practically both the same phones, why is it that you can't just take the ROM AND the kernel from phone A and put it onto phone B?
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It's the manufacturer of the device who would need to release the kernel sources for the certain firmware version which they won't do continuously. In other words, device A may get ICS, hence the kernel sources may be released, but device B may be stuck with gingerbread and may not have a kernel which supports ICS. Back-porting can be done, but in many cases it is very difficult and in the end there still could be a lot of bugs.
You can't just take a kernel and "shove" it in another device. If you did this, it's quite likely nothing would work. The device would not even boot. Remember, the kernel is the center of android (Linux), so everything needs to be "linked" and correspond with each other exactly for it to work (I'm trying to make it as simple as possible ).
If they are the same devices, that would not be necessary. They would use the same roms/kernels. If they are just very similar (e.g. the a100 and a500) you may have some luck with the roms, but not the kernel. Some a500 roms can be flashed onto an a100 and work flawlessly BUT the device's original kernel must be restored for the device to boot.
Theonew said:
It's the manufacturer of the device who would need to release the kernel sources for the certain firmware version which they won't do continuously. In other words, device A may get ICS, hence the kernel sources may be released, but device B may be stuck with gingerbread and may not have a kernel which supports ICS. Back-porting can be done, but in many cases it is very difficult and in the end there still could be a lot of bugs.
You can't just take a kernel and "shove" it in another device. If you did this, it's quite likely nothing would work. The device would not even boot. Remember, the kernel is the center of android (Linux), so everything needs to be "linked" and correspond with each other exactly for it to work (I'm trying to make it as simple as possible ).
If they are the same devices, that would not be necessary. They would use the same roms/kernels. If they are just very similar (e.g. the a100 and a500) you may have some luck with the roms, but not the kernel. Some a500 roms can be flashed onto an a100 and work flawlessly BUT the device's original kernel must be restored for the device to boot.
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I have the strangest feeling I just tried to jump into the shallow end of the swimming pool, and yet instead was shot out of a cannon into the middle of the sea without a scuba diver's suit... If only I could understand this more!
thebeastglasser said:
I have the strangest feeling I just tried to jump into the shallow end of the swimming pool, and yet instead was shot out of a cannon into the middle of the sea without a scuba diver's suit... If only I could understand this more!
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Think about it this way. The Android OS could be run on a number of different devices that run slightly different hardware such as cameras, touchscreens, processors, etc...but the OS has to be able to communicate properly to that hardware using device drivers. Just like Windows from a 30000 foot view. It can run on a Dell or Acer computer, but must have the proper drivers.
If the manufacturer's of those devices do not write ICS drivers or preferably furnish their source code, then it is incredibly difficult if not impossible for someone without the internal company documentation to write such a driver.
mf2112 said:
Think about it this way. The Android OS could be run on a number of different devices that run slightly different hardware such as cameras, touchscreens, processors, etc...but the OS has to be able to communicate properly to that hardware using device drivers. Just like Windows from a 30000 foot view. It can run on a Dell or Acer computer, but must have the proper drivers.
If the manufacturer's of those devices do not write ICS drivers or preferably furnish their source code, then it is incredibly difficult if not impossible for someone without the internal company documentation to write such a driver.
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Ohhh... so say you decided to put your own little phone together according to your own prerequisites, it'd be simple for you to do something on it, but not so much for someone who only has the hardware to look at... correct?
Another question, why is it so easy to port things onto Nexus Devices? Are they just more compatible with all drivers? As I've heard from one of my friends that he has a fully working Sense 4 ROM on his Nexus S... and yet it's tough to find one for my Evo V.
EDIT: I'm out of "thanks" I'll give you one as soon as I get some more...
thebeastglasser said:
Ohhh... so say you decided to put your own little phone together according to your own prerequisites, it'd be simple for you to do something on it, but not so much for someone who only has the hardware to look at... correct?
Another question, why is it so easy to port things onto Nexus Devices? Are they just more compatible with all drivers? As I've heard from one of my friends that he has a fully working Sense 4 ROM on his Nexus S... and yet it's tough to find one for my Evo V.
EDIT: I'm out of "thanks" I'll give you one as soon as I get some more...
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Hmmm, I am not as familiar with the Nexus devices, but I suspect that Google has released the hardware spec details and the source code for the drivers for Nexus phones, so the source code can be modified and included for the ports. HTC unfortunately has not been as open with some of their phones.
If you were to put a phone together, you would need to use hardware in it that you had access to the specs and source code for. This is not a great analogy, but I think it will serve. The camera app tells the OS, "take a picture", then the OS tells the driver, "make the camera take a picture", and the camera device driver controls the hardware parts like the shutter, the focus, and zoom to cause the picture to be taken and handed back to the OS to be saved and then the OS notifies the app, "here is your picture, awaiting next command".
If you do not have access to the camera driver source code and camera hardware specs to create a driver, or an actual driver from the camera manufacturer, then you are missing the crucial third part and you cannot make the camera take a picture even if you get an OS loaded and an app installed there.
Check out The Tricorder Project for an excellent example. Create your own Star Trek "tricorder" with various sensors and a touchscreen that runs on Linux for around $200 and some work putting it together.
thebeastglasser said:
Ohhh... so say you decided to put your own little phone together according to your own prerequisites, it'd be simple for you to do something on it, but not so much for someone who only has the hardware to look at... correct?
Another question, why is it so easy to port things onto Nexus Devices? Are they just more compatible with all drivers? As I've heard from one of my friends that he has a fully working Sense 4 ROM on his Nexus S... and yet it's tough to find one for my Evo V.
EDIT: I'm out of "thanks" I'll give you one as soon as I get some more...
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Its easy to develop for nexus devices since Google always releases their sources and those devices are easily unlockable (the bootloader). This is one reason why they are usually referred to as development/developer devices.
So in other words, the software communicates with the hardware, but without the proper code embedded in the hardware, it's not possible for the software to communicate with it? And without source code given from the developer of the hardware, you're making software that hypothetically should work, but because of the different device hardware it may or may not work...?
And that's also big because some guy on the portal recently found out that all of the eight mega pixel cameras on HTC devices are the same, so it should now be easy to use working cameras on ported and newly created ROMs...
Am I getting anywhere with this?
thebeastglasser said:
So in other words, the software communicates with the hardware, but without the proper code embedded in the hardware, it's not possible for the software to communicate with it? And without source code given from the developer of the hardware, you're making software that hypothetically should work, but because of the different device hardware it may or may not work...?
And that's also big because some guy on the portal recently found out that all of the eight mega pixel cameras on HTC devices are the same, so it should now be easy to use working cameras on ported and newly created ROMs...
Am I getting anywhere with this?
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Yes, you got it a bit better now. The software needs to have the same codes embedded in the hardware to correspond with it. The source code is not from the hardware but of the software (kernel source).
Yes if the ROM was ported to other HTC devices with the same/similar camera (some libs will still need to be changed though).
Theonew said:
Yes, you got it a bit better now. The software needs to have the same codes embedded in the hardware to correspond with it. The source code is not from the hardware but of the software (kernel source).
Yes if the ROM was ported to other HTC devices with the same/similar camera (some libs will still need to be changed though).
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Alright that makes a bit more sense. Thanks for your help guys!