Related
Just wanted to show what apple just presented. Looks kinda cool
Hopefully a worthy adversary to wm5
More info macfeber.se (swedish site)
[edit: guys I'm going to temporarily sticky this. Please don't open new threads. V]
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=233
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-from-macworld-2007-steve-jobs-keynote/
My God. Time to change my nappy.
We're shipping them in June -- we're announcing it today because we have to go get FCC approval... we thought it'd be better to introduce this today rather than let the FCC introduce this.
Europe in the 4th quarter of this year, Asia in 2008.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, suddenly my Hermes looks like poo
V
Have to wait to Q4 in Europe... So I guess it'll hit shelves next year at about this time
seen this Advertisement for it?
http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/46492/
Apple iPhone announced
Steve Jobs has announced the iPhone.
And the Apple fan boys have started already.
I would imagine that phone manufacturers like HTC will be relieved by the spec since they would have feared a truly innovative product.
As it stands, the iPhone is a poor relation to the TyTN.
just.......fracking......sweet.....must....stop....droooling.....
Holy freak, that's one sweet design.
HTC better start thinking and not just add a new feature once a year!
having just seen this on CNN News (thats all the bloody Germin hotel has in English) I have to say im not overly impressed. the screen looks good, the browser capability is excellent but apart from that theres nothing there that the TyTn cant do, in fact there was no mention of 3G and Video Phone. So what if itll have a decent music player, my SEW850i has a good MP3 player, its a good phone, it has 3G and Vid, browsers crap but hey if you want to look at web stuff use a PC
Take a look at the videos at apple.com looks awsome... I want one NOW!
Some thoughts... I can't see how it would work for a non-alphabetic language. Hand-writing recognition is easier with a stylus, IMHO.
It seems more like a cool toy. Lots of cool functionality, but limited in its Apple way as usual.
But at least give something for HTC to shoot for.
darn.. the phone looks very much similar to Windows based type, but much more fancier. With the multi-touch screen that allows you to zoom in by 'spreading' two fingers.. and how the screen change in a scrolling style.. just makes is much.. 'adorable'. And, as with the Apple's history, I think it will have all the stuff that is necessary .. such that there won't be any need for iphone-developers.com Again, since i'm on a low budget, it is out of my reach anyway.. good to have cheap and affortable WM version. Hope the Crossbow will do better.. and . . well, at least give us some eye candy?
... cause I have seen the future.
http://www.apple.com/iphone/
Sorry. But we are using real "crap" right now!
Maxi
damn thats some nice hardware ... if that thing didnt have apple "software" on it id prolly look at getting one. yahoo news was saying a retail price of $500 US for the 4 gig version ?
id miss my warez too much
Now that DOES look nice.
I'm watching BBC News 24 right now and they say that they have a feature about it coming up soon.
It has some nice innovative features but Apple don't seem to be saying too much about the hardware architecture - more specifically the CPU.
vijay555 said:
My God. Time to change my nappy...Man, suddenly my Hermes looks like poo
V
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vijay555, unless Apple provides *NATIVE* SDK I won't consider this phone as it means there is no possibility for interesting 3rd party applications (Tomtom is the first that comes to my mind) and I can't create applications.
Widgets are not the same thing as they do not have access to full system resources like Windows Mobile native and to an extent Compact Framework based applications.
Without native SDK this is not a true smartphone but more like Blackberry or a fancy high end phone.
It's on BBC News 24 right now...look VERY nice.
IPod - check
Pocket Computer - check
Cell Phone - check
Blackberry? Oh bugger! Well it's what the clueless jouralist said - I do hope he's wrong. Maybe he just mean blackberry-like features.
Raven - I'm inclined to agree with you re the SDK. Note, my comment re "defecating on my microphone" is based solely on it's cosmetic appearance.
No one can deny, it's a beautiful piece of engineering. Frankly, I'll probably buy one just to put it down my pants (underwear for those of the US persuasion).
No Windows Mobile manufacturer has come close to achieving the asthetic beauty of Apple engineering (well, except for the black diamond, but that's 600 times more expensive).
I have no doubt the interface work will also be topnotch.
This is not to put down current WinMob hardware. Well, actually it is. Apple has buying power and engineers. I love HTC's manufacturing quality, but Apple is lightyears ahead of the game (well, 5 years according to Steve) in terms of execution. I love my Hermes, but the iPhone looks great.
Whether those of us who rub their hands together at the prospect of modding and enhancing will get much out of it is yet to be seen. I've said before, I buy WinMob because I can program and enhance it. Even with second class hardware, that would still be my first consideration.
However. We are not Apple's market. Apple's market is average buyers who want to switch their bluetooth on and it work. No A2DP, no stutters, no "set as wireless stereo". Switch it on, music comes out of the things on your ears. Those guys will love it. I love it.
However, I have some ideas about bringing some of the goodness home to our phones
V
Here's a BBC News web site article...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6245991.stm
I can't possibly imagine Apple releasing a phone based on OS X, going up against Windows and NOT having at least as full an SDK as WM5. I also can't imagine it'll work as swell as it looks. We're on what generation of WM devices and they're just now starting to get reliable and intuitive.
Time will tell!
But yeah, the kid side of me is more than happy to shell out $600 tomorrow. It's that learning how to write for a new OS that kind of sticks in my throat.
I think mobile computing got a kick in the ass witht he release of the Apple iPhone. Microsoft and Palm beat Apple to the punch but Apple made it a lot easier and more friendly to use. if you would like to comment on any funny, sad, or a review of your device, post them here.
i will get the ball rolling... I own a Windows Mobile 5.0 powered device that i purchased back in december 2007 as a christmas present to myself. i won my device at auction in spite of the condition it was in. the mic is broken so i have to use my bluetooth earpiece to make phone calls. the device itself was in ok shape (i added some more body damage to it. but nothing major). i was always skeptical about smartphones and such. i test drive the iphone and liked it but expensive. the phone i currently use was not expensive at all (again with its defects). i overlooked all those and saw the potential my phone had. it is an ETEN G500 in case any readers were wondering. Being in college, my phone made my life a lot easier and being connected everywhere made me rethink my position and now i am all about my phone. Since it is GPS enabled with one of the best chipsets out on the market (SirfStarIII), i can go anywhere i want. it blew me away after i got it to work with TomTom 6 software. i am late to the game with smartphones and such but i did my thorough research before i made an offer on ebay, where my phone came from. i am glad i never regretted purchasing it at all. having a device that can compete with todays devices made me take even more pride in my phone. i don't care if it is bulkier and heavier. for my phone being relatively old since it is an '05/'06 phone. it is far from being obsolete by my standards. once i get enough money together i will upgrade to a better one, but for now, my phone i konw will last me another few years at least.
one success story i would like to share. i was with a friend and he needed some books to help him with a paper for a class. we were in borders store and he bought the first book ($20) b/c of the amount of info it had. the second book he was gonna buy had some info (a lot nonetheless) that was missing from the first book he bought. So he took my phone and typed all the info he needed in Word Mobile. After he was done, i sent it to him through e-mail on the spot and he was able to retreive it and open the document with no problems at all. i saved him $30 (which what the price of the second book) and helped him get a good grade on his paper.
there you have it. i maybe just obsessive with my phone, but i feel like with situations like this, my phone came in handy. i am a technology fanboy, not a microsoft, and not an apple fanboy. But, having a pocket pc/phone powered by microsoft certainly helps a lot especially in a school setting.
Tell me about your stories!
I use my device as a flashlight almost everyday thanks to VJCandela. It also does everything I need and if it doesn't I just have to install some software and it will. It's highly customizable, allows for countless mods and not anyone has one.
With affordable data plans coming to Canada there will be even more features unlocked on my phone like instant Wikipedia access, on-the-go blogging...
Unlike the almost obsolete PalmOS, Windows Mobile is here to stay.
my friend wants to trade his iphone 3g 16gb for my tp. both of ours have been used within the week... should i? and even if i do, are the prices equal? i dont know much about the iphone prices :/ can anyone help please? thanks.
auriken said:
my friend wants to trade his iphone 3g 16gb for my tp. both of ours have been used within the week... should i? and even if i do, are the prices equal? i dont know much about the iphone prices :/ can anyone help please? thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion with HTC releasing the Touch HD just around the corner, the TP will be outdated and the prices will take a hit. As for the 3g iPhone, it is still the phone to beat especially with all the apps that are being released for it lately plus I dont see a price drop coming within the near future on the blackmarket for these devices since the only other way to get one is thru ATT and a ridiculous plan and 2 year contract.
My $0.02
Cheers!
and the fact that the iphone is overhyped.
meaning, even the stores had plenty of them in storage but they where only to be sold a few on a day (creating a hype).
if you write a problems over the iphone, most of the time you get sabered down by iphone lovers.
iphone is not sold for tweakers.
ppc is tweakable, and you can write down youre problem if you find any.
not that i am trying to put the iphone in corner.
i don`t own one.
and i like the looks, and how fast it works (tried it in the store).
i guess you have to find out yourself.
maybe try to swap with youre friend for a week for testing.
ooh and did i mentioned that i like it that wm isent the only phone OS on the market.
i welcome the idea of google`s android operating system.
thank you guys for your input. anyone else?
The the iPhone 3G is approx $6-700, the TP is about $900.
But over a 2 year contract, the iPhone will probably retain its value better than the TP (namely because Apple releases only one phone a year, while HTC is continually making better and better products).
Of course it also depends on if both are unlocked; if you're forced to use AT&T (or if you really need US 3G) then there's no clear winner since you'll end up paying a lot more for the plan itself.
Otherwise I would say the biggest consideration is what kind of smartphone user you think you are. If you have no problems with using iTunes and Apple's walled garden called the App Store, then the iPhone is a fair choice. But if you're a DIYer and have no problems copying files and making some registry edits, you'll find WinMo much more empowering.
Of course you should definitely also consider your warranty, insurance and replacement options. What will you have to do to get the 3G replaced versus the TP? Etc.
If you want a no-nonsense opinion, I'd say stick with the TP. We're only getting started here at XDA, and the TP has nowhere to go but up in terms of its software. The bulk of what the iPhone has to offer is already on the table, and will probably slow down once developers jump ship to Android. But that's only my opinion
i own both, what do u basically use your phone for? for a normal phone, iphone is great, top of everything, and for multimedia, it's still the phone to beat. and like said, it's fast, and very fast, Apple doesn't need to tell how it works, but watching movie is very pleasant compared to TP, despite the latter has more resolution to the screen.
anyway, if you really need a WM device, stay with TP, and like said before, it's tweakable, whereas the most you can do with iphone is jailbreaking to let other cracked 3rd party applications and games to be applicable on your iphone. not a straight through way to install anything you want.
I hate IPhone, apart from a massive screen & some eye-catching animation it has nothing else to offer and cummon, if u talk about speed, I have tried both IPhone & TP over 16mg Wifi and they both load a page almost within in same time.
How can you even call IPhone a smart phone??? It doesn't even have the basic functionality that a mediocre s60 has...
Well, after developing for a few different OSes (WinMo, Windows Phone, Meego, Maemo, Android, BBOS) and owning pretty much every high end phone under the sun, I thought I'd pour out my thoughts pertaining to each individual OS and why I feel this way about them. This is by no means a comprehensive guide or anything to live by. Just one person's experience in each OS that I've used.
Windows Mobile:
Have to start with the classic, I never owned a Palm and WinMo had a place in my heart from the first time I ordered that HTC Wallaby, of course back then it was something like, "Microsoft Pocket PC 200X" or some outlandish name like that. Oh man, 32 MB of ram on a phone? This thing was monstrous! Mockeries aside, it started a love affair, the likes of which many girls came to be jealous of. I was an avid Winmo fanboy, transitioning from the Wallaby, to the Samsung Behold, HTC Dash, Samsung Behold 2, HTC Touch, HTC PPC 6800, then the Samsung Omnia which was everything a phone should be at the time. I remember geeking out so hard over the accelerometer. So few phones had them back then. I even briefly went back to WinMo after starting Android when I saw how amazing the HTC HD2 was.
I always felt that, despite not being truly open source, Windows Phone was just so much more capable than Android. I know that's not the case but it definitely felt like it. That and the launchers for it offered so much more depth than the same generic rows of icons with one added, mostly menial, feature. I played my first PS1 emulator on Winmo which made me love it by itself and I also co-developed my first app on it. It was an awful little RPG with 32 bit graphics but I was so proud you wouldn't believe it. It was my high school project and my little game blew people away. The OS was definitely not without flaws. HTC delved in as far as they were allowed to make the menus usable by something that wasn't a stylus but could only go so far which required a pretty nice and very well-aimed push right on the check box. If you missed it, too bad. This was also mostly on resistive screen technology making the odds of being dead on much worse. I'd also get random reboots even when I was just texting at times. Still, I remember having so much trouble transitioning into Android only because how could I use an OS without Swype? Sounds like some kind of sadistic torture if you ask me... WinMo held it's own and just destroyed the iPhone in every way except being pretty. For that and for it's time frame, it will always hold a special place in my heart.
My next big transition was into Android. I saw HTC making a big move and I was an HTC fan. That Z Hinge on the HTC Dream/G1 was too cool and futuristic to pass up, plus who doesn't like track balls? So, I went to Android. Android has and will always be to me, a very basic OS that the consumer is expected to make usable. This isn't based off just the one HTC Dream (Which, funny enough, is currently flashed with Kit Kat) I've actually owned over 80 Android phones throughout the years. I've felt this way even on my Galaxy S4. I became a fan only because I got to say, "Oh, your iPhone can... Well, mine actually has 3G and can picture message." It was all a battle with the iPhone for us early adopters. A battle that back then, we won. Then, Apple kept progressing, they fixed all of the little things that effected everyone and only left flaws for us nerds to gripe about. That war quickly became pandering. Something along the lines of, "Well, my phone has this trivial gimmick so it's better than yours!" I was literally trading around and upgrading phones every 1-2 weeks. I lived in Austin and there is always someone dumb enough on Craigslist to trade you what you want there if you make yours sound sweeter, especially when it's not. I had pretty much every GSM Android phone released in the US from the G1 to the Galaxy S2 Of course there were some that I missed but I even had that awful Garminfone Asus that we all try to forget existed. I always wanted something that could keep up but as I was playing RoboDefense on my Android device, the iPhone was getting Infinity Blade. It got to the point where I harbored a distaste for Android but I was too stubborn to go iPhone. Roughly when I reached that point is when Windows Phone 7 dropped. Android was dead in the water to me though I still own Android devices. They're there for development. My opinion on Android is this, it is a foundation. It's something that you take and you build on to make good. It is awful as a standalone. That said, individuals aren't going to be able to make the same quality software that a multi-billion dollar company can. To this day there are no good keyboards on Android. The OS is still buggy, there are still no devices that feel premium and there is still far too much lag even on the revered Nexus devices. I think that perhaps the Oneplus One might aid in resolving some of these issues based solely on videos but anything can be spoofed in a video.
So, on to Windows Phone 7. Spoiler alert: I hated it. At least I thought I did. I got the HD7 three days prior to release due to an error and was so excited. After using the Galaxy S Vibrant with it's AMOLED display, the HD7 looked awfully washed out but I'll deal, whatever. I thought I wanted those roms though, I thought I wanted Swype, I thought I wanted app folders. So, I traded that HD7 for a Dell Streak. Many of us remember this as the first "Phablet" with it's absolutely massive 5 inch screen *snicker* and prior to the HD7, I thought it my dream phone. I was absolutely giddy to get that trade... Then, I started really noticing Android's flaws. The incessant lagging, the bad keyboard, everything. I missed that HD7. I missed Windows Phone. I missed a coherent and speedy experience. I hunted and hunted and finally found another HD7. This was late in the year, maybe October, and for Christmas, I knew what I wanted. The Dell Venue Pro. Hands down, the best hardware keyboard I've ever used and I've used most. It was the first of two phones to ever last me more than two months and actually retained use for a full 8 or 9 months. I loved the thing. It was everything I wanted in a phone. Then, in a stroke of luck, I got offered to be a part of Nokia's developer program and got a pair of Nokia Lumia 800s shipped to me. I believe one was supposed to be for my old development partner who'd left to pursue other interests two months earlier so I had two Nokia Lumia 800s. One of which I traded for a Nokia N9 and both of which inspired a love for Nokia in general Nokia sells Windows Phone as well, if not better than the OS and the early marketing was often effective and always hilarious. This phone was bulletproof... I got pushed into a pool holding it, I fell off a motorcycle with it in my pocket and landed on it and this thing just kept going. In my opinion, it's the highest quality Nokia device with a touchscreen. However, it wasn't long til I realized that it would soon be tragically obsolete with the release of Windows Phone 8. I made the sad decision to trade it for the iPhone 4S which was new and worth a lot more at the time in hopes that I might soon trade the iPhone for a Lumia whatever comes out. Windows Phone 8 is an entirely different monster so I'll come back to that one. Ultimately, Windows Phone laid a strong foundation but due to poor support on the part of developers, it really was as their advertisement said, A phone to keep you away from your phone.
So, as I stated, my next endeavor was Meego. I also branched in to Maemo at this point but it was pretty uneventful and I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other about it. I got myself a cyan 64 gig monster with a front facing camera, imaging software that destroyed any other non-Nokia phone at the time and features that Samsung is just now incorporating into their phones while claiming they're revolutionary. Meego is also a heavily gesture driven OS which, let's face it, is the future. Meego, to me, was what Android should have been. It was smoother, it felt alive, it was on a premium device, it seldom lagged, it was pretty and it was bursting with features. Honestly, I still wish I hadn't gotten rid of that thing. I might still use it as a backup if I hadn't but as a broke College kid obsessed with the latest and greatest I had to get rid of both for the Nokia Lumia 920 which I don't regret but I would still love to have that huge piece of cell phone history. To date, I'd say it's the only non-Windows phone to breach my top 5 favorite phones of all time. Everything was seamless, the experience was great... I'll be honest, I had 0 complaints with this phone. I mean, sure there weren't a lot of apps but the basics were there and at the time it trumped Windows Phone in that regard. Aside from that, I wish Meego were still alive.
Then, there's iOS. I had this phone all the way up to iOS 7 so I can give at least some opinion on each version from then on. iOS when I got it on the 4S was ugly, plain and simple. It looked so painfully outdated that I had to jailbreak it just so looking at it didn't give me an aneurysm. The keyboard was almost as bad as Android's and the auto-correct was worse. It just felt like a jumbled mess at all times regardless of how things were arranged. If I had to explain iOS as an OS at that point, I'd call it a glorified app launcher because it was little else in my eyes. That said, as it progressed they added new features to make it a unique experience and enhance Siri (The one part of the OS I enjoyed) to offer deeper integration though it doesn't touch Google Now or Cortana. My biggest issue is that if you went Apple, it seemed you had to go all Apple or bust. To get out of their stupid iMessage system is hell, want to transfer contacts away from iPhone? Too bad, go through this lengthy and unorthodox process to do so. It was pretty bad. 7 added a few gestures I really liked but having been spoilt by Meego at this point, it was pretty underwhelming in comparison. iOS, to this date, feels like a glorified app launcher that they occasionally attach a new gimmick to for people to confuse for revolutionary. At least they finally made it easy on the eyes though.
Now, back in to Windows Phone 8. Given that my brand new Lumia 800s were made obsolete, I wanted something profound. What it felt like I got were slight improvements and a lot of apps that I'd paid money for that didn't transfer over. Some of my favorite Windows Phone 7 games don't exist on Windows Phone 8. This includes several Xbox live titles that I poured a bit of funds into including Tentacles, Splinter Cell, and the bullet hell game that Cave released for us. The name escapes me at present. I was taken aback, I had given up my perfect little Lumia 800 for this? The Lumia 920 which felt okay in comparison. On top of that, the wireless charging coil wasn't even in my first one so I needed a replacement and had to settle for black instead of yellow for my replacement. Overall, the experience started rough. Then, there was wordflow. Since the beginning of phones, I'd always wanted a keyboard that was smart. Sure, there are learning keyboards out there but none compared to Windows Phone's. I don't know who Belfiore sacrificed to The Dark Lord but this is perfect. The live tiles also certainly kept me enveloped. The slightly better customization in different tile sizes also made everything a bit less stagnant. Overall, it warranted at least a continued interest. Since then, I feel that Windows Phone has made great strides plus, thanks to Nokia, they're releasing the highest quality devices of any OS. At this point, I feel like Nokia took Windows Phone and single-handedly built it. The 8X was a beautiful device with a lot of issues and no real added software and Samsung just tossed another OS on their galaxy series. However, despite being carried by a single OEM, Nokia paired with Microsoft has created an OS to be revered and even with little things like Glance background has really flexed their muscles. Overall, the OS wasn't enough of an upgrade to just sell me but thanks to Nokia's additions and the overall quality of the OS that it exuded from it's Windows Phone 7 roots, it is the premium OS. That said, there is still an app gap that was made even worse by the poor transition to Windows Phone 7 to 8 and they've shown that they're not shy about alienating users.
Then, there was the Blackberry. this is something I bought from someone locally for $40 very recently and overall, it's a new experience. What do I think so far? Well, it's budget Meego on higher end hardware. The gestures are not as good, the OS itself looks like a very confused version of Android (which has enough conflict of it's own) and it's heavily dependent on the work of other OSes to try to stay afloat. I never had the earlier Blackberry devices so perhaps there was a point at which they were ahead of the game and the hardware is honestly pretty amazing, easily matching the iPhone in terms of sheer quality. However, they sacrificed security which was a massive selling point for them in favor of trying to swim in the big kid's pool and to say that they failed miserably would be an understatement.
So, what am I rocking now? I'm sadly rocking a Lumia 1520. Not that it's bad, it's great really, just a bit big. I'd bite on the 930 but no Glance screen is a deal breaker. I also have a Moto G and a Blackberry z10 as backup/development devices. None of them have ever been taken out into the wild though because they're not functional daily drivers to me. A key point in my eyes is texting and the keyboards are pretty dismal. I know I've touted the Windows Phone keyboard a lot in this thread but honestly, it's that good and with the shapewriting technology in 8.1, they put themselves light years ahead of everyone else in a very necessary though sadly underappreciated area.
Wow, you've had quite the journey, it seems like you experience nearly every version of Android and the last couple versions of iOS, as well as every version of windows phone.
Personally, I've only had a 3GS, NL 521, and NL 1520 (current).
I got the iphone about two months before iOS 6 came out and so I really didn't experience any of the annoyances that made iOS less than pleasant. Still when I switched to WP somehow things still felt streets ahead.
SoI can say you have long experience using different smartphone OS
I have 3 questions
1- What is the best OS you have ever used ?
2- What is the OS which you think now is the best for your needs ?
3- What is the formula for the best Smartphone I mean which OS with which company hardware will make the best smartphone ?
Some people says Nokia smartphones hardware with Android OS.
one-option said:
SoI can say you have long experience using different smartphone OS
I have 3 questions
1- What is the best OS you have ever used ?
2- What is the OS which you think now is the best for your needs ?
3- What is the formula for the best Smartphone I mean which OS with which company hardware will make the best smartphone ?
Some people says Nokia smartphones hardware with Android OS.
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Click to collapse
1. That's a real toss up between Windows Phone 8.1 and MeeGo
2. Windows Phone, you won't get something more intuitive. Sure, you can't customize or overclock or all that crap but you don't need to. It works perfet out of the box.
3. Nokia Windows Phone has me nailed down pretty hard. I wouldn't want Android on a Nokia because Nokia is about infallible quality and that's pretty much the opposite of Android.
I`he used Windows Phone, the system is intuitive, looks nice but there aren`t many features available on android.
iOS on tablets and iPhones is usefull but I always feel limited by prices or lack of some solutions that is why I choose android.
I know android from Capcake 1.5 and I was always pleased and surprised by subsequent changes of capabilities of the system.
Hi Poecifer
I agree with you, I have used Lumia 520, 720 & 920 and to be honest Windows Phone is such a stable system, but I left it back to Android because VPN & file manager wasn't supported at the time in the OS.
Now I'm waiting for the WP8.1 Nokia devices.
for me Lumia 630 is missing flash light & Lumia 930 come with small battery, hope Nokia will provide prime high end flagship soon.
Holy crap 80 androids, I've had like 3 or 4 phones in the last 10 years xD
Some experiences about the newly released Firefox OS?
You say you don't like android keyboards. What about SwiftKey? I've tried many keyboards, from all different os's, and I think SwiftKey is great. And as for androids lagging, I am currently using a n5, and have used a m8 and I experience zero lag from both of those phones. I was wondering where you experience lag in these higher end devices. Currently I'm all about Android, the only thing I dislike is the build quality. Even with the m8, it could have been designed better. All these companies designing android phones have no taste or style.
Redirected from
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2551715&page=58#post57872212
(Sorry Moderators if I'm doing something wrong, but most of us were posting stuff on the DEV thread...)
I have to agree with @Dukenukemx that newer phones suck and that most don't even have physical keyboards.
This is probable because of the increase in screen size and the general interest in lighter, thinner phones. I actually really, really enjoy a heavy phone. It makes them feel solid, like those age-old Nokias. The myTouch especially is rather heavy, and I've dropped mine a lot mainly because I'm in college and I'm always in a rush but also because I'm clumsy as ****. Heavier phones are more solidly built, because of the thicker plastic required to support all the moving parts, in the myTouch's case, the G2, and the G1.
Gonna edit this later, I'm not done.
AndrMatr said:
Redirected from
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2551715&page=58#post57872212
(Sorry Moderators if I'm doing something wrong, but most of us were posting stuff on the DEV thread...)
I have to agree with @Dukenukemx that newer phones suck and that most don't even have physical keyboards.
This is probable because of the increase in screen size and the general interest in lighter, thinner phones. I actually really, really enjoy a heavy phone. It makes them feel solid, like those age-old Nokias. The myTouch especially is rather heavy, and I've dropped mine a lot mainly because I'm in college and I'm always in a rush but also because I'm clumsy as ****. Heavier phones are more solidly built, because of the thicker plastic required to support all the moving parts, in the myTouch's case, the G2, and the G1.
Gonna edit this later, I'm not done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's an interesting situation. Now I like the smaller phones because I don't want to have to be toting what is increasingly becoming a tablet in the front pocket. 4" screen is my limit, which rounds out to 122mm height, just small enough for a camera case.
I could have went iPhone with a Bluetooth keyboard but I don't like the Apple company model.
I won't repost the link I left in the other thread, but it talks about how Sprint did customer surveys which found people preferred hardware keyboards. They built two models, and close to no one bought them.
A big issue is that the lines are unrecognizable, and middle of the road in terms of specs. Since the specifications have pretty much stayed the same since then, "new" models are now bordering on low end phones. Ones that will never get updates, support, or any hope in general.
The suggestion in the end was that a qwerty line must be tied to a flagship device, or it won't survive. But after I had a couple beers with a network provider, their thoughts is that the market for qwerty is so niche that it would be too much risk for them.
A full sized device with a keyboard would not be practical. With the size they make them now, a few extra millimeters thickness for the keyboard makes it look bulky. A "Q" model would have to be tied to a device with a reduced size, like the S4 Mini, which is already a niche device.
Another issue, particularly with the doubleshot is with the hardware breakdown. Flex cable problems are all too common. With bar phones, it seems the only hardware problems they get are with the power button, and sometimes the volume rocker.
This may be my last foray in the hardware keyboard trend. I could (probably) get my cases made, which would be expensive and annoying, but it is what it is. Without a keyboard, and the ability to have a custom made case, I am willing to go to a phone size up to 5.5". So that would mean either a Nexus 5, Moto X 2013, or Moto G.
But it will be a while before I need to make that decision. My F3Q is still going strong (and strangely less miserable than the MT4GS, even though it wasn't a bad phone), although I miss the tactile response home buttons. ROM support would be nice, but I really like the LG interface right now (even though I replaced the launcher and icon pack).
My rant is over, for now.
Sent from my LG-D520 using XDA Free mobile app
@joel.maxuel, you have an interesting point when you said that a flagship device is needed for the keyboard to survive.
At the time, the myTouch was a flagship device. At the T-Moblie store I worked at every one of the guys I was working with had one. One had a red one, one had a white one, and I had LG Doubleplay (which is terrible phone, by the way) that I only got because it had two screens, which defeated the purpose of a battery.
While useful, the keyboards take up a little extra battery with the backlight. As far as the Doubleplay goes, the second screen combined with the keyboard just made the battery drain like someone who won the lottery throws away their money on houses, cars, etc. I never looked into Cyanogenmod for it, although that would be AWESOME with 4.x.x, having that extra screen for messaging and the top screen for whatever else so I can watch videos while I text.
Another device for the keyboard issue is the Kyocera Echo.
I don't know how many of you are familiar with the device, but it had two screens, which could be used in tandem with each other, you could pull an image onto both screens expanded so the image took up both screens. It was an extremely advanced version of the Doubleplay. The second screen was also the keyboard, which I didn't like because there was no physical feedback except the vibration of the phone. I liked the myTouch that when I was working for T-Mob I almost bought one, however I forgot about it as soon as I had access to the Sidekick 4G. What I liked about that phone was the lock screen, which displayed the time in words rather than the numbers. The trackpad was a joke, never worked properly, but it had a decent processor and a decent amount of RAM for 2.2 Froyo.
The keyboard was excellent, it had pretty good functionality. The buttons were really, really well spaced. There was no room for accidentally pressing a key and sending a text sending something really inappropriate instead of something harmless. Froyo is like Windows XP.
The downside of the Sidekick was that you almost always had to use both hands to press the soft keys, which I found to be almosed completely useless. Samsung did a terrible job of designing it. I have almost always had a keyboarded phone, and that's why I have switched carriers so much. T-Mob has always had the best Android phones, by far. Verizon's are also moderately decent, but T-Mob's were the best.
My favorite phone ever, was the G1. Forgive me, but I totally forgot about the spitting image of Google. Poorly designed, ugly, but very, very easy to use. I found out that it went all the way to ICS, and I threw mine out just about the time that ICS came out. The keyboard was the best addition to the phone that HTC could have added. The keyboard was snug, good for my (at the time) small fingers (I was 13). The trackball didn't light up, which was disappointing, that's what I liked about Blackberries (but blackberries themselves are a joke). When the myTouch 3G Slide came out, my friend got one and then he gave it to me. Even though it was slow as $#!+ the keyboard was the best thing (As I type this I realised that HTC had a thing for keyboards) about the phone.
My final point: Keyboards were a very, very important part of Android history. While keyboards had a fad, and like most things, they will make a come back. They might not be on major devices, but they will be on devices that will be supported enough for Cyanogenmod and the likes. I visited a AT&T store about a year ago and there were a couple of Android phones with keyboards. I look at foreign markets occasionally, and there are some companies that have keyboarded Android phones with decent specs (like a 2.2GHz quad core ARMv7 processor and an Adreno 430) but their hardware is cheaply made and the ratings that were translated by Google said that the hardware burned up fast. Battery life was almost zero.
Conclusion: wait a few years, or go live in China or Japan.
Edit
Oh, and by the way, I found this:
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/artic...ils_leaked_on_upcoming_mytouch_android_sequel
The phone looks like a combination between the myTouch 4G Slide and the 3G Slide, but there's no "chin" or whatever. The face is completely flat.
Personally, I think this one looks really cool. I have no idea why HTC didn't go with this design, I think it's really good, but instead they went with the original design of the current myTouch 3G Slide, which is what the 4G Slide is based off of.
What do you guys think?
Why non keyboard phones? It's not hard to imagine why companies don't make them. The demand for them has gone away. Why? Is touchscreen superior?
Look at the current trend of Android phones. They're getting bigger, but everyone hates them bigger, but everyone needs them bigger. Cause when you hold the phone on the side the keyboard consumes the screen. It's the most comfortable way to type, because holding it vertical gives you more visible screen, but less keyboard. So the solution is to make the screen bigger.
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But the reason everyone gets these keyboardless phones is because of iPhone. Everyone wants an iPhone clone. It's to look cool without the Apple tax. Manufacturers have no problems with this, as it makes manufacturing these phones cheaper. They encourage people to go for brick style phones, just like they encourage people to spend more on internal storage and cloud services. It's done by not including SD card slots and charge a lot for 32GB phones. Despite that a 32GB class 10 SD Card is only $17 on Amazon, and that's not even the cheap ones.
How hard is it to make a brick phone? Screen+SoC+battery = phone. When companies like HTC are falling apart when all they can do is continue to make more powerful iPhone clones. Like I care how much faster my phone can get when I don't have the software on it. Hey look 2+Ghz quad core with GPU9001 graphics with screen resolution beyond 1080p. So it's obviously for gaming, cause Facebook doesn't need this kind of power. It would be more comfortable to use a keyboard for gaming, especially games like ShovelKnight. Instead of HTC going after qwerty again they just keep trying to one up Samsung, LG, and Apple in shear power. Meanwhile best touchscreen games are AngryBirds, FruitNinja, and etc, which don't need that kind of power.
Well, in the beginning, it was more than a fad, it was a requirement. On screen keyboards were not part of the OS until Donut 1.6, where the G1 was released with Cupcake 1.5...
Sent from my LG-D520 using XDA Free mobile app
@Dukenukemx
You're right on the "More Power" idea. I totally agree.
Companies are repeatedly trying to 1-up each other with hardware.
While the G1 is struggling with 4.0.4, phones like the LG Phoenix are thriving even on Lollipop.
The Samsung Glalaxy Note III has an insane processor that can play Minecraft with no problem.
The Samsung Glalaxy Centura has an 800Mhz processor that can handle Minecraft with no problem. The only problem I have with my Phoenix is the processor architecture being ARMv6, and Minecraft is built on an ARMv7 platform. The Adreno 200 handles NFS Shift with no problem. If the Phoenix had ARMv7 I would have just bought a Bluetooth keyboard and played around with that. I'm happy with the Phoenix and if I can downgrade the CWM recovery back to 5.x.x.x I might also downgrade the OS to either 4.0.4 or 4.1.2.
And you're right with the whole memory problem. My Phoenix shipped with an unexpected 32GB Sandisk 32GB MicroSD card already wiped in the device! I bought the phone itself for $19.95 on amazon, and the card came with it! Apple bumps the price on a new iPhone up about $100-$200 per memory level. Other manufacturers are doing the same. It's not about the phone anymore. It's about the game. Manufacturers just slap the newest and biggest on their devices while devs are constantly tyring to keep up. The battery life is dismal. My Phoenix gets 2-3 days on a charge with a 1520MAh 3.7V battery. The Samsung Galaxy S5 has a 10.78 WH battery... Since when was battery life rated in the amount of watts used? The watt is a measurement of heat... That's disturbing. Even my myTouch gets warm while browsing the web, nevermind I fried my last one playing Minecraft. Given I had the processor overclocked by a whole 500MHz, that's mostly my fault. My Phoenix can barely handle a 148MHz overclock. The phones (myTouch and Phoenix) were released two months apart! Had Minecraft development started then, we would probably still see a lot of ARMv7 exclusive apps actually developed for ARMv6 as well. Developers tend to go to the brighter side of the latest and greatest, however people like me prefer to hang out on the deep end and dig through the dirt and bring old relics to light (like the Phoenix or the G1). Even the iPhone 3GS received an Android update! All you had to do was jailbreak it. iDroid development stopped right around the release of JB mainly because the 3GS's hardware couldn't keep up with Android and the developers had better things to do than tinker around with brand new iPhones. iOS is up to what, iOS 9? Android is only recently to 5.0!
I definitely prefer Android, though, because Android is open source and Apple is paranoid and has all of their stuff closed-source. I remember the announcement in Google News when the Android Market reached its one-billionth app download, and now most apps have over 100,000 and the number of Android apps is blowing up exponentially. I looked at Google's stock worth per share: 526 as of posting. About 8 or 9 months ago it was at over a thousand. Apple's stock? 110. Microsoft? Forget it. microsoft is becoming a game company now. Microsoft is becoming Blackberry: Everyone uses it but they either don't care about it or hate it. Windows 8 was a joke. I have extremely high expectations for Windows 10. I don't want to be disappointed so I'm using Ubuntu.
joel.maxuel said:
Well, in the beginning, it was more than a fad, it was a requirement. On screen keyboards were not part of the OS until Donut 1.6, where the G1 was released with Cupcake 1.5...
Sent from my LG-D520 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could be argued that it's a fad to not have a keyboard. Is removing SD cards also a fad too? Nobody wants Windows phones, but somehow they keep getting made. Part of it is market influence, and part of it is collaboration. I believe there's a lot of people who are still waiting for a next generation QWERTY phone, but nobody is making them? Something is not right here. We are being pushed into a direction that companies want. Who doesn't want a SD card in their phone? WHO?
The Motorola Droid 4 is the best QWERTY phone today. It has respectable specs for a phone today, but it was made 2 years ago. I would be using it now if it worked on T-Mobile. There are people waiting for the Droid 5, but that's likely never going to happen. But I also believe that companies like HTC, LG, Samsung, and even Apple are facing a growing menace. The Chinese ultra cheap market is growing and ready to explode into a problem for them. Willing to believe they have no problem with making QWERTY phones. I have no problem with Mediatek or Allwinner chips in my phone. Probably the worst thing going for the Chinese phones is lack of community rom support and support for T-Mobile.
AndrMatr said:
Even the iPhone 3GS received an Android update! All you had to do was jailbreak it. iDroid development stopped right around the release of JB mainly because the 3GS's hardware couldn't keep up with Android and the developers had better things to do than tinker around with brand new iPhones. iOS is up to what, iOS 9? Android is only recently to 5.0!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't know about the iDroid project, sounds like a cool initiative. Too bad they didn't keep it up (with the newer devices).
Your point that the iPhone couldn't keep up with JB tells me that either (a) Apple products are underspecced as well as being overpriced, or (b) the shift in OS requirements for Android were rather steep (in reality the big jump was from GB to ICS). With the options available, I figure it is mostly the former.
I don't understand the point of Android vs iOS versioning. Both release major versions once a year. Android just didn't mark those milestones with a full increment.
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---------- Post added at 01:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 AM ----------
Dukenukemx said:
It could be argued that it's a fad to not have a keyboard. Is removing SD cards also a fad too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that no longer having a keyboard is more of a trend, not a fad. A fad is a passing phase, likely/hopefully phablets for example. Since a hardware keyboard is no longer necessary, and too many people have voted with their wallets (never mind the fact my friend at Eastlink pointed out - you cannot customize a hardware keyboard) it is difficult that manufacturers will go back to that, including cheap chinese manufacturers to create latin-based phones for that matter.
The big companies have took too many notes from Apple - no SD card, non-removable battery, although they have pushed other nasties onto the market i.e. ever increasing screen sizes to hide the need for more chassis space for the specs.
Lack of SD card and removable battery is the worst for people like us. No SD card means we cannot back up userdata in recovery. No removable battery means we have nothing to pull if we bootloop and need to hard reset (AFAIK).
Their stance is that it saves space, and with 64GB onboard, why need expansion for a card that often cannot be more than 32GB anyway? I don't know the reasoning for the battery, but it means that the phone has to be replaced much sooner, and it cannot be shipped easily in many locations.
Its hard to tell what is a fad or a trend, but if enough people vote with their wallets, hindsight will determine the outcome.
Sent from my LG-D520 using XDA Free mobile app
joel.maxuel said:
I didn't know about the iDroid project, sounds like a cool initiative. Too bad they didn't keep it up (with the newer devices).
Your point that the iPhone couldn't keep up with JB tells me that either (a) Apple products are underspecced as well as being overpriced, or (b) the shift in OS requirements for Android were rather steep (in reality the big jump was from GB to ICS). With the options available, I figure it is mostly the former.
I don't understand the point of Android vs iOS versioning. Both release major versions once a year. Android just didn't mark those milestones with a full increment.
I think that no longer having a keyboard is more of a trend, not a fad. A fad is a passing phase, likely/hopefully phablets for example. Since a hardware keyboard is no longer necessary, and too many people have voted with their wallets (never mind the fact my friend at Eastlink pointed out - you cannot customize a hardware keyboard) it is difficult that manufacturers will go back to that, including cheap chinese manufacturers to create latin-based phones for that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as Apple devices being underspecced, I completely agree. The 4S had a 1Ghz dual core processor in 2011, where as we have the myTouch and the Samsung Galaxy S Whatever. While the iPhone 4S had really, really good battery life (that's the only good thing about Apple and Blackberry, everything else is total crap) it was a terrible phone, I ended up installing android on it with working 3G and wifi, plus texting and calling. A lot of apps were super incompatible with the iPhone's hardware. The Cortex-A9 was a sh*tty processor to begin with, and the PowerVR GPU was total BS as well. In contrast, my little, reliable Phoenix runs NFS Shift really well. I downloaded it for iOS when I wasn't using Android, and the iPhone could barely handle the graphics. I'll give Apple the cake for design. The iPhone 4S looked really cool. The ONLY part I actually enjoyed about iOS was Siri, and ther's a bunch of Android apps just for that. Given the'r not as good, they work much better in my experience.
On another note, how good would X86 and X64 desktop architecture work with Android? I heard newer versions of Android phones will be x64 compatible.
Aside from that, the Droid Turbo has better specs than my current PC, and once the Droid Turbo loses value because of the terrible battery life I might buy one and load up Bochs (a x86 desktop processor emulator and virtual machine for Android) and just boot Windows XP. I wonder how well that would work? It almost worked on a G2, it was just really slow.
Yet another topic, a lot of PC games that have launcher clients (Skyrim, Oblivion, COD, NFS) all use a standalone .exe that grabs the files and loads them into the RAM as needed. What if someone recompiles the launcher/client .exe for Android, and transfers the files to the SD card and installs the APK? Can that work? The Android apps like Ravensword also uses external data separate from the standalone APK app are practically the same, except the APK is the client instead of .exe. Could this mean we can get Skyrim for Android? I mean, we have the hardware. All we need is a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, or a compatible game controller. I take it you'd have to modify a few files for hardware reasons, but other than that it might work. A buddy of mine tried to get it to work with Oblivion, but he failed because it was too big of a task and took too much time.
Dukenukemx said:
The Motorola Droid 4 is the best QWERTY phone today. It has respectable specs for a phone today, but it was made 2 years ago. I would be using it now if it worked on T-Mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking about that. It has better specs than the MT4GS, existing the 8GB internal and the 1024MB of RAM. I might buy one for novelty purposes, use it as an android equivalent to and iPod Touch (which is what my MT4GS is doing, I have all media forwarded through bluetooth[calls, texts,internet]) but my problem is I already have two MT4GS's and I'm just gonna wear both of them out. By the time I break both of them HOPEFULLY there will be a decent QWERTY phone. T-Mobile seems like a good option, it's too bad alternate ROMs don't let us do a SIM unlock. My LG Phoenix, which I adore, is still loyal to me even though it doesn't have an SD card and is still sticking with me considering how much crap I've put it through.
It's also a shame that LG took over the Gx series, I really would have liked HTC to continue it. Just imagine another QWERTY phone! The HTC G3! I'm probably gonna whip out my pencil and draw it, I'll share it with you guys! Then I might send the design to HTC... Forget it. It's only a dream, but the concept is enjoyable. The HTC One should have a slide out variation, like the myTouch and the Evo 4G series'. Just browsing Amazon I see quite a few really, really crappy QWERTY phones in the style of Blackberrys. They disgust me.
Like it or not like it, I expect thanks for this. I apologise for the poor drawing skills, they are usually better and I was excited and rushed this a little.
Just in case the image doesn't show up, here:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Qo4xLF16dSOFlVRDM4ZUFwV0E/edit?usp=docslist_api