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Before I get started, please don't scream. I am just *waiting* for the douchebag assault to begin, because after all, this is an internet forum and it'll happen come hell or high water no matter what I say. This post is not for the douchebags, it's for the reasonable people who are willing to discuss, listen and talk in a rational way.
I got my first fuze the day before launch (November 10th), and out of the gate it was problematic. Now, I was and still am enamored by the feature set, and the hardware is amazing when it's working right. My first fuze locked up and crashed programs *constantly*. After a week and a half I exchanged it for another, and this was a better experience, but still flawed.
Fuze #2 never once locked up, but it did crash programs pretty frequently. Not every day and not every program and not even consistently, but it did so with enough frequency to be damn annoying. The AT&T software load, as everyone already knows, is complete ****. It makes a 528Mhz phone with 8 times the RAM of my old Wizard feel slower than the Wizard with a hacked ROM, and that's just sad. I've been using my Wizard (a cingular 8125) since launch, and I can honestly say that unlike most phones the experience only kept getting *better* as the hardware aged, and it was able to do so as a direct result of the fine folks of XDA who have cooked up some really amazing ROM's. The work you guys do is phenomenal and it only gets better as time goes on.
And so I loaded up a custom ROM from here on my Fuze. It was, to say the least, WORLDS better than the AT&T stock ROM. But it still had its annoyances. Some programs would still crash. There was still hesitation here and there when using the Manila 3D UI. Finding and acquiring software to run on it is a pain. Don't get me wrong--Windows Mobile has GOBS of great software available and I've blown hours upon hours finding it, playing with it, enjoying it, over the last 2 and a half years.
Of course, that's part of the problem--to get the really good stuff you have to search endlessly all over the web to find the really great stuff for WinMo. XDA is a terrific place because there is so much stuff discussed and linked to, but even here you have to trudge through miles of posts and it's a pain, plus there's the whole process of downloading, unarchiving, copying to the device, installing to the device--only to do it all over again when the next great ROM comes out. This isn't the fault of anyone here, but it's evidence of a problem that's grown beyond the community's ability to solve--the problem is with Windows Mobile itself and the infrastructure that does--or more accurately does NOT--support it.
Let me 'splain. When I finally had enough of my Fuze, I took it back to AT&T to find something else. I dicked with the Blackberry, I hated it. I've always hated blackberry, both from an infrastructure support side and from an interface side. So that was out. I've never been an Apple guy EVER. In college we had some piece of **** Mac's that were just miserable to use and I learned very well to hate them, so I hadn't even considered an iPhone.
And then I tried it. My first response, as an official Mac hater, was to find its flaws. The camera is mediocre (2mp? LAME!). But then, I have a REAL camera for taking any serious pictures (let's face it, no cell phone camera is going to replace a nice Canon or Nikon any time soon for high end photography). The screen resolution isn't as nice as the Fuze...yet it's still better than the Wizard was, and it's not so low that it ends the world. I hate that there are no hardware buttons except for Home, Power, Mute and the volume toggle, but then, the Fuze wasn't replete with buttons either and I'd already weaned myself off the Wizard's multiple buttons anyway. And it pisses me off that I can't use a friggin' MicroSD card to cheaply expand my storage.
But then I started to see what the device is really all about, and what really blew me away is how easy it is to use and to access a fat library of good apps, both paid and free. I don't even have to leave the device, I can browse it all straight from the phone, install it straight from the phone in a single step, and when I plug it into my PC it's all synced. When the next software update happens I just sync and everything I installed is put right back where I wanted it to be.
In short, I finally see why people are tripping over the iPhone. It's not the hardware, because let's face it the iPhone is outclassed in hardware by plenty of phones, including the Fuze. It's the interface, it's the software, it's the ease of use. And for me, at this point in my life where I'm trying to do more with my time than ever before, that makes it a great device choice for me. The iPhone, simply enough, will save me time and effort, and it enables me to do things I just can't do with Windows Mobile.
Now, my sincere hope is that WinMo 7 fixes these many issues. I hope it comes with an easy and fast UI. I hope the devices have multitouch screens. I hope there is finally an integrated backend infrastructure and an app store that nets easy access to both developers and consumers of applications and games. I hope it standardizes on a required minimum of built in storage but outdoes Apple by allowing you to expand it further with MicroSD (or whatever the hell comes next, but man do I hope NanoSD isn't next or I'll never be able to find my goddamn cards). And for goodness sakes, STOP vendors from loading the damn phones with all this bloat!
Compared to what Apple's done with the iPhone OS it feels like Windows Mobile is standing still, like Microsoft has dropped the ball and just stood there slack jawed as it rolled away. Maybe it's because they're so focused on kicking Sony in the nuts in the console wars, I dunno. All I can tell you is that what iPhone's software is today, WinMo's should have been a long time ago. The only reason it's survived this long is because guys like the geniuses on this forum have made it do things it was clearly never built to do in the first place.
With any luck I'll be trading in my iPhone for a WinMo 7 device, but I guess that remains to be seen. To everyone who's done anything for this community, I want to say thanks, because you made my enjoyment of my Wizard a true joy for almost 3 years.
Thanks,
Jason
I have mostly always used WM devices but in the mix of my many phones I have used both iPhones and I too agree that the interface is much simpler, easier to use, and direct, I also agree that certain apps specifically the games on the iPhone are uncomparable to the WM devices. Lastly, also think that the ease of app searching in the iPhone is the best, just browsing through the many apps is a joy.
With that said, using the iPhone is (to me) frustrating because most if not all apps crash, the web surfing is a pain because I remeber surfing and safari would constantly close. I traded my iPhone for the fuze and updates have done little to improve these problems, my wife still has the iphone 3g and I always have the same problems on her phone. In addition, I exchange my iphones multiple times because of these problem and they kept on happening. The only truly thing I miss from the iphone are the games and sometimes the appstore. The lack of multitasking is also horrible even by using the background tasking app when jailbreaking doesn't solve this dilema.
It really depends on what you need.
I honestly couldn't care less about the whole openness debate.
At least personally, I can jailbreak and get whatever (ok, maybe not) I want on an iphone.
The ui is much more responsive, and the screen is much larger.
BUT! I need physical keys, and that pretty much was the sole reason to not consider anything else.
Yesterday, while on the train, I was reading some stuff on Opera, while listening to music on Kimona, and typing away on Word, while swtiching between apps using Task Facade. Can I do this on the iPhone? Not as far as I know.
And about the larger screen, if I need to be typing frequently, the larger screen really doesn't benefit me since half of it will be filled with a virtual keyboard; what matters is a high res display. After comparing the two side by side, my choice was pretty clear.
Then there's another thing about the whole "responsiveness" debate. Honestly, at least with custom ROM's (which is really a bad excuse, since no one should have to do this to get past the minimum responsiveness), and running one app at a time, it's very snappy.
My point is, I find it inaccurate to state that the Fuze is a gateway to an iPhone without considering the target group and general purpose of winmo devices. Granted, more winmo phones want to hit the mainstream market, but let's face it, Fuze isn't targeted to hit any of the consumers out there. At&t did absolutely nothing to market it, and that really should be enough to invalidate the statement you provided. After all this is a forum where more technically inclined people hang around.
Wow, that's a lot of words. I'm surprised my ADD didn't kick in while reading it.
If you think that the iPhone will free you from crashes, think again. Yes, the interface is slick, but it is not the flawless stable system you see on the TV adds. I had the IPhone for a month before and returned it for the Fuze mainly because I got tired of Safari as well as any other memory intensive app constantly crashing.
The phone just doesn't have enough memory to be as good as it can be. My wife still has her iPhone which I recently upgraded to firmware version 2.2. This weekend, out of the blue, I asked her how it was performing. She replied "I just has to reboot the phone a minute ago."
I figure, if I have to deal with software lagginess and crashes, I might as well have a system that is accessible and customizable instead of one that is locked down. Oh, and the few extra buttons on the Fuze certainly do make a difference. But really, I find the Fuze with a new ROM MUCH MUCH more stable than the iPhone ever was.
Nice post, well thought out and honest. I, too, have a Fuze and am considering an Iphone. The bigger screen is a major factor; the Fuze screen is just so .. small! high-res is great, but pointless when you need to zoom in so close on things to read them that you might as well be running QVGA.
It seems I have a love/hate relationship with the Fuze, as many do here. One day, it drives me nuts -- Opera freezes up, scrolls and zooms in and out and behaves weird, the phone acts slow, bad GPS fix, and so on. I get frustrated and seriously consider returning it. Then, the next day it works like a dream! Quick GPS fix, opera works perfect, I discover something I did not know about before (i.e., circling your finger on a portion of a photo to zoom in right there -- cool!) and I would be sad to see it go.
I guess all we can do is be patient. As you said, other phones got better with age; I think it stands to reason that the same thing will happen with the Fuze. As better optimized web browsers get released (i.e., Fennec) and (hopefully) video drivers get updated, the whole experience should get better. If by some miracle we get WM7, who knows what that might bring. yeah, the hardware is frustrating -- small screen, weird buttons, no headphone jack -- but I think it is enough to deal with for now if we can get the software and drivers all optimized.
Thanks for all the great replies, guys. So far I have had the iPhone for just a shade over 48 hours, and I've updated to 2.2. I've experience no crashes yet, but I did need to reboot once after installing an app last night (weird, yet no biggie to me because I'm used to it in the Windows world).
I have to agree--I HATE that I can't run more than one app at a time on the iPhone. I don't know why they do that, but I can only presume that it's done that way in order to force memory to stay free so the OS remains quick and responsive. It's kind of a ****ty tradeoff IMHO, but at the same time...I'm liking the responsiveness and I *usually* don't do more than one thing at a time anyway. It's nice to have the option though.
By all means, I don't think Fuze is a waste at all (except in AT&T's horrible software load. What the hell are they thinking? Honestly they need to fire whoever builds their ROM's and hire somebody who does this as a hobby on XDA), and I think that when it matures it'll be damn difficult to beat. I fully expect WinMo7 to eventually arrive on it (barring some bizarre hardware requirements, but who knows?), but even if it doesn't I think the ROM devs around here will eventually harness this thing into a terrific device. Unfortunately I just don't feel like waiting around, because for my almost $400 out the door I feel I should have walked out of the AT&T store with a phone that blew the doors off most others without any need for a hack.
On the bright side, by the time the ROM's are really mature and crazy fast/stable, the Fuze will probably have dropped in price substantially
For those developing ROM's, some of my thoughts on UI are:
1. Larger buttons! Especially for closing apps and using drop downs, those tiny little default X's are miserable for finger access. Finger friendly is the way of the future.
2. Customize Touchflo. I've seen some slick youtube videos with guys doing very iPhone/Coverflowish stuff and it appears buttery smooth. Of course, I could never find where to get the software to try it out, but if it's doable, heck...do it
3. I dunno if this is possible, but how about setting up some sort of repository for free apps and building a thin client that could run in touchflo, connect to the server, and snag a list of apps available and maybe even install those directly to the phone. I don't see any reason not to steal the App Store's idea, it works well and it's a joy to use. Microsoft should have done this already
Just some thoughts!
I can relate to OP. I'm upgrading form a Wizard as well (T-Mo US MDA). While new ROM's certainly made my Wizard better, I can say that custom ROM's on it were not an absolute requirement. While I continued to be more amazed by my Wizard, I just continue to be a little less pissed off at my Fuse.
XDA is the ONLY reason I have not returned my Fuze. I'm finally back to a totally stripped ROM, with no fancy I wish I bought an IPhone TouchFlo Horse ****, and no AT&T application Douchebaggery.
OP, I feel you on the lack of buttons. I miss playing pocket Nester / GB on my Wizard. I think it says alot when it is totally outclassed and still sticks around as my "GameBoy".
I definitely have mixed feelings about the Fuze. I waited to buy this over the Tilt for the camera, and I have been somewhat impressed by it. I miss the Wizard's Keyboard layout and overall style, with the buttons NOT touching each other.
@Fatheadpi,
I can't agree more (though I am rather enamored with the iPhone's UI. It's not the animation and all that crap though, it's the sheer *speed* of it and ease of getting to anything I want to get to).
Fuze is an impressive piece of hardware, yet at the same time there are issues with it--primarily software--that are really hard to overlook on such an expensive device.
The iPhone has been around for quiet a while now, and has had 2 revisions. The Fuze is fresh out of the box, so making a comparison so early in it's release is a little judgemental. it is possible that alot of out problems can be solved by a nice ROM update (like video drivers). Or just out right fixed by custom ROMs here. if you think that apple listens to what the people want, just take a look at the cut/paste, or Video recording issues.
One of the "great" things about the iPhone is one of it's biggest weakness too. The app store, while its a one stop shopping for apps, is also controled by apple, and they are the final say on what kind of programs you are allowed to run on your device. You also can write new ones (think Schaps Advance config) you have to take what they want you to have and like it. If you try to break their rules, then you might find yourself owning a brick when you sync it.
I think you need to look at this in a little bit of a different light here.
Apple has for the most part stated that they are a software company; almost all of their efforts these days are portals to Itunes where Apple makes money hence the reason for lacking hardware but great UIs and access to Itunes. They make loads more money on Itunes than on hardware.
Looking at this from AT&T's viewpoint they make money on data plans, minutes, texting, basically anything crossing their network so these types of things work great on the phone.
A third party to all of this is HTC which has to make something attractive but gets no additional money at all after you buy the hardware.
So looking at it this way, it makes perfect sense why a pleasurable experience on a Winmo device is driven by the end user, in essence no one else is interested in your problem because they don't make money off of you.
So maybe some entrepreneur out there should figure out a nifty UI like iTunes but for Winmo where a user can buy a new ROM, or try out/buy some cool apps and so forth, figuring out a cool way to upgrade the device.
The real truth here is that Apple owns everything about the iPhone, there is no one entity that owns Winmo devices so individuals end up taking over and this creates multiple and sometimes confusing paths to good stuff.
-Tim
jasongw said:
(except in AT&T's horrible software load. What the hell are they thinking? Honestly they need to fire whoever builds their ROM's and hire somebody who does this as a hobby on XDA)
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If they don't do that, we may have to pay more for the device. So I really don't mind all the bloatware (you get what you pay for )
3. I dunno if this is possible, but how about setting up some sort of repository for free apps and building a thin client that could run in touchflo, connect to the server, and snag a list of apps available and maybe even install those directly to the phone. I don't see any reason not to steal the App Store's idea, it works well and it's a joy to use. Microsoft should have done this already
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http://getgecko.org/
I think these guys are trying to do just that. The problem is, ironically, but obviously, the openness.
Then there's this. It's from handango. Never tried it, probably not even close to what apple has. It's not the lack of it, but the way it's presented, which is precisely why--and you nailed this point--iphones sell. Of course, as I mentioned previously, most winmo users are at least prosumers, so they know what to do without all the oversimplifications.
Jblakk--
I get what you're saying about comparing the two, but I have to disagree. The Fuze is brand new, but essentially Fuze is to, say, an HTC Wizard as iPhone 3G is to iPhone. That's to say, it's not new, it's merely a refinement of what's come before.
And Fuze gets a lot right, I know, just as iPhone gets a lot wrong. Yes, it's judgmental to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the fuze, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Judging is a natural and appropriate action for humans, and I'd argue we should judge more, not less (but in a rational way, not an emotional "I'll kill you for disagreeing" way). That's philosophy though, and I'm just talking phone/PDA's
I realize that Apple has final say on the app store, but from what I can see it appears that they aren't being too tyrannical about the content. There are literally thousands of apps available, and so far I've filled up 5 screens worth of apps I wanted to try out. It was easy to find them, easy to install them, and for the ones I didn't quite like, it was easy to kick them to the curb.
I have to say you're dead on about cut/paste and video recording. I can't even imagine how they left those out, especially cut and paste. I mean does it get any more basic than cut and paste? . Hopefully that will be resolved soon, I can't imagine it's all that complicated.
My point here has never been to say that the Fuze is super terrible and iPhone is the uber shizz; clearly both phones have their strengths, and both have their weaknesses. Right now, based on my experience with both and coming off the still-my-overall-favorite-phone-to-date the HTC Wizard, I feel that where the iPhone leads is entirely in the execution of the software. Windows Mobile 6 is barely a step above 5 (in fact, it IS 5 if you get right to it, 5.2.xxxx) and it's really showing its age.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Fuze hardware deserves better than what Windows Mobile's current incarnations have to offer. However, as I mentioned, I do think the miracle workers at XDA will pull some sweet tricks out of their hats eventually and make the fuze pretty damn sweet. And if Microsoft follows its usual pattern, WM7 will finally catch up to iPhone's OS and probably refine and improve on it in various ways. It'll be exciting to see what happens on that front
@g2tl-- Gecko seems like a great idea, I really hope they make some good progress. I hadn't heard of that before, but I'll definitely be following their progress from here on out! Thanks for the heads up!
As for getting what you pay for, that's almost always true but I think there's an exception here. On the fuze you're getting more impressive hardware, but you're getting a much less polished piece of software that's quite outdated and difficult to manage by modern standards. Now, I'm a 13 year IT geek (good lord, did I just admit that?) so I've never been afraid of getting my hands dirty, and goodness knows it's a miracle my old 8125 survived all the flashing I did to it, but at a certain point it's nice for a device to just *work* without a lot of dicking around with it.
I am sure WinMo will eventually be that software, probably with WinMo7. It's just not there yet, and I think the real shame of that is that an awesome device like the Fuze (or any flavor of the touch pro for that matter) won't really be used to its full potential because the software is lagging so far behind the device itself.
Tim, I do get all that, and you're exactly right. I also think that's where a great many of the problems with WinMo come from, the fact that carriers can just shovel piles and piles of junk onto these phones just drags down the user experience.
I'd say maybe Microsoft needs to put out their own phone where they can present a coherent experience (their new Xbox Live interface is friggin' awesome), but then I'm sure we'd have a lot of crying foul from assorted carriers and competitors who cry monopoly. There's probably no easy solution from a development and implementation standpoint, but from a consumer standpoint it's actually fairly easy: go buy the device that offers what you need.
Right now for me--and surprisingly so because I never imagined buying one of these until 2 days ago--that device appears to be iPhone. I truly do hope for a WinMo7 device or even a Fuze WinMo7 hack that'll win me back eventually. I still love the dark side
jason - Suggestion for you, as this is finally what has made me very happy with my Fuse. Probably a little too late as you're running an I-Phone.
Think about this: You were a Wizard user. When you upgraded, you probably wanted a better camera, more power, and 16 gig storage options. You were probably running an OC'd cooked rom WITHOUT TouchFlo.
Here's my suggestion.
Starting from scratch, I have the phone I wanted after about an hour's work. TouchFlo 3D just continues to piss me off. The only nice things about it were the picture viewer, weather, and the music setup. However, I have music controls on my BT Headset, and I'll probably go find the HTC Music player / plugin tonite. I have HTC picture viewer installed in an out of the way place for the rare times I look at my pics. I'll figure something out for the weather option, tho I've lived without it for a number of years.
Thinking about it, it all kinda makes sense. PC users build PC's and use Windows because we know exactly what we want and how we want it. We don't put flashy, pointless bull**** interfaces up front to slow things down. (at least pre-Vista, anyways.)
Still tho, the Raphael and Diamond needed a different control pad and button set. Macs were built around the idea that an average idiot (no offense to MacFags) could just use something. PC's are designed with a bunch of buttons because PCFags will customize that to do awesome stuff.
jasongw said:
Jblakk--
I get what you're saying about comparing the two, but I have to disagree. The Fuze is brand new, but essentially Fuze is to, say, an HTC Wizard as iPhone 3G is to iPhone. That's to say, it's not new, it's merely a refinement of what's come before.
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I'll have to dissagree with you there, as the hardware is so different, it's a copletely different device. I came from the Hermes(8525) and it's not even close to the same(and I did love my heremes)
And Fuze gets a lot right, I know, just as iPhone gets a lot wrong. Yes, it's judgmental to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the fuze, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Judging is a natural and appropriate action for humans, and I'd argue we should judge more, not less (but in a rational way, not an emotional "I'll kill you for disagreeing" way). That's philosophy though, and I'm just talking phone/PDA's
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I think what I said just came out wrong. I think over-critical would have been more accurate. I think that we look at things in perspective, and make decisions based on our needs. While I know that neither device is perfect(what one is?) we just need for figure out what job does the job best for us, and makes us happy.
I realize that Apple has final say on the app store, but from what I can see it appears that they aren't being too tyrannical about the content. There are literally thousands of apps available, and so far I've filled up 5 screens worth of apps I wanted to try out. It was easy to find them, easy to install them, and for the ones I didn't quite like, it was easy to kick them to the curb.
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Don't forget that not all of thoes apps are free, and you don't get demos of stuff try make sure they work as advertised. I have friends that nickle and dime themselves too death due to the app store. I don't think the idea is bad idea by any means though.
I have to say you're dead on about cut/paste and video recording. I can't even imagine how they left those out, especially cut and paste. I mean does it get any more basic than cut and paste? . Hopefully that will be resolved soon, I can't imagine it's all that complicated.
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iPhone users have been asking for thoes 2 functions for well over a year, and they all say...Its comming soon...for a year now. I'm guessing that Mr. Jobs doesnt want you to have it for some reason.
My point here has never been to say that the Fuze is super terrible and iPhone is the uber shizz; clearly both phones have their strengths, and both have their weaknesses. Right now, based on my experience with both and coming off the still-my-overall-favorite-phone-to-date the HTC Wizard, I feel that where the iPhone leads is entirely in the execution of the software. Windows Mobile 6 is barely a step above 5 (in fact, it IS 5 if you get right to it, 5.2.xxxx) and it's really showing its age.
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I won't dissagree with you on that. 6.1 was a bigger improvement that 5 to 6 was. Hopping that 6.5 will get the boost it very much needs. And don't ever forget that Touchflo 3D was HTCs way of hiding the windows interface, due to its seriously unfrendlyness. But also remember that iPhone was geared towards the casual Multi-media use, and the Fuze is aimed towards the average power user.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Fuze hardware deserves better than what Windows Mobile's current incarnations have to offer. However, as I mentioned, I do think the miracle workers at XDA will pull some sweet tricks out of their hats eventually and make the fuze pretty damn sweet. And if Microsoft follows its usual pattern, WM7 will finally catch up to iPhone's OS and probably refine and improve on it in various ways. It'll be exciting to see what happens on that front
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I will agree with that. But just like the arguement over PC vs mac, it's not a fair comparison. It needs to be Dell XPS vs Mac, or Toshiba Satalite vs Mac. There is no such thing as a PC (technicaly a Mac is a PC too...Personal Computer). And Apple has the unfair advantage of only writing software for papriatary hardware, where Microsoft has to write software for millions of combinations of hardware, and in the end it's all about drivers.
In the end, see what serves your needs best, but I do not think that the Fuze will drive anyone to be iPhone users. With the Fuzes lack of advertising, and the Apple's Mind numbing advetising, I think that people that look at the fuze as an option already have the mindset that the iPhone just will not do what they need.
In advance let me say thanks to everyone for having such a civil discussion. I am thoroughly impressed and appreciative. I was *sure* somebody would have come in with the raving and yelling attitude by now and I've happily been proven wrong. I REALLY appreciate that; flame wars got old and boring a loooong time ago IMHO
@Fatheadpi,
Thank you for the suggestion. At some point in the future I hope to get another fuze or perhaps its successor. Of course, by then I hope for WM7 and an actual answer to the ease of use features in iPhone (I'm still a PC guy at heart, I'd love to see Apple get ***** slapped at their own game). Suffice to say, unless AT&T cleans up its act (which I doubt, they never did do right by Wizard users and it was only XDA cookers who made that device be all that it could be) I am sure that the Fuze will continue to be a "Cooked ROMs only" device.
@JBlakk,
Wow, what a nice response . I won't go point by point, but I think you've made a lot of good points, and I agree with many. Hell, I still build my own PC's (I've only recently started using Vista though, and I mostly hate it so I turn off almost all the fancy crap).
Also I think you definitely have a point about the marketing aspect and who the fuze is (or at least ought to be) targeted toward. I'd make the argument though that if AT&T is targeting the "power user" they still missed the mark with the software by loading it will all that ridiculous bloat.
I like the appearance of TouchFlo3D, but man the performance is just sad, especially on such a high end piece of phone hardware. My biggest gripe is absolutely in the software execution, but I am, to reiterate again, quite confident that as the ROM's mature and the cookers get their heads around the nuances of the phone itself, we'll see some amazing performance from Fuze.
Thanks again guys! It's been loads of fun
Jason
I'll be civil...
I understand what you are saying, if you just want something that works 99.9% of the time the iPhone is the perfect phone for you. I however like to play with things and no how much I deny it I like finding problems and fixing them, and Microsoft's products are perfect for that. Also the open source-ness of M$ is another thing that draws me to their products.
I was worried, being an open Apple hater(I have nightmares about getting iPhones for Christmas...), that AT&T would not carry another phone with a touch screen after they signed the deal with Apple. The Touch Pro is/will be perfect for me in that sense. Apple is flashy and pretty, but extremely constrained in the sense that Apple likes to keep it's followers in a choke hold, but that's my opinion too.
I also like the keyboard of the Fuze/Touch Pro/Raphael(Why do they need so many names for the same device?!)
So in short I'm not going to flame you because you chose an Apple product over a M$ one, I honestly don't care as it's your money and your decision. I think the latest Touch Pro's are better than the first release models though...but that could be just speculation.
((Also the lack of cut/copy/paste is an EXTREME drawback for me))
I also went to the darkside (iPhone) after returning my fuze. I have said it in previous posts and to my co-workers that have both iPhones and WinMo devices - it. just. works.
Being an engineer/sys admin by trade I love to tinker and tweak and rip apart and put back together stuff, but in this case the effort it took to get the Fuze/TP to a usable state [for me] wasn't worth it. I am at the stage of my life where I don't have the time to play (7 mo. old will do that to ya).
I wouldn't kick a free or deeply discounted Fuze/TP out of bed, lol, but as many have said, it's what you want out of a device and I needed my device to work out of the box.
That said, so far so good. About 2 trouble-free weeks with the iP3G.
I still come here daily to keep up on the HTC WinMo happenings to satiate my tinker desire. But the iPhone is here to stay - or until WinMo 7 drops at least.
Ok, where to start? Well from the beginning of my short smartphone experience. My first phone was a Motorola A1000 with UIQ. The phone where not as good from the beginning but after some turns with the ROM cookers it became a pretty descent phone. It had GPS, a great app for mp3 (PowerMP3) and for that time an Opera webbrowser that worked on the most common sites.
Ofcourse the webbrowsing was slow and the GPS took ages to get a fix and the sound from PowerMP3 started to glitch when I had it in the background and did other stuff. But hey, I accepted it because it started to get old.
So, anyway. When the Xperia was annonced I found it as a great replacement. It was a smaler phone, it had full qwety, highres screen, wlan, gps, radio and finally 3.5mm jack. A friend had the first tytn phone (my first contact with XDA) that i thought was a bit slow. But still, it was an old phone and with the specs of the xperia I thought that WM would run smoth as butter.
Now, I have had the phone for 6 mounths and the honymone is over. Ofcourse the ROM cookers here have done an amazing job to speed it up. But still. Sometimes the phone is less responsive than my old UIQ phone. There is still no fully working webbrowser, the GPS does somtimes have problem to get a fix (not as long as 10 minutes though) and loading times eg. for showing pictures, open menues is the same as on my UIQ or worse.
I am getting tired of the chronic statment soon... the next version of Opera, when skyfire is ready, the next version of windows mobile, the next radio or ROM upgrade, the next version of manila etc.
And still, phones with weaker hardware is working smoth as silk with ROMs from the manufacturers like samsung, Apple or OS like Android. Why can't MS make an OS like that? It dosen't have to be "cool" as iPhone. But why not make it run smooth with less loadingtime?
As it is now, I can't lend my phone to a friend if he/she whan't to test it or browse a webpage without having them to wonder why nothing happens if they press this or that because of the loading times. "How could you pay that much for this phone?" And, no, I can't answer that anymore.
Ok, now I have let off some steam. And I havn't eaven mentioned the worthless casing on the phne that have cracked for the second time... ohh, now I have
Peace over and out
I wrote almost the same words today on a Dutch forum. I have my Xperia now for about 7 months. Out of the box it's a piece of sh.t. Thanks to the cooks it's an acceptable phone now, but my next phone will be no WM phone anymore. Thinking of buying the new Iphone when it comes out. Better/faster hardware doesn't say anything when WM is the OS.
Iphone here I come. If you can't beat them join them...
Although I do like my iPhone, I HATE apple. Going from my kaiser to the iPhone was a huge change. Mostly good, but putting up with apples bs is obnoxious. They are so restrictive. I miss the days of rom flashing, changing web browsers, media players, notes applications......just to try something new. With my iPhone, I can only change what apple approves, and that is very little. I am eagerly awaiting the Pre's release. Currently I pay AT&T 135.00 as month for two iPhones with the cheapest plan possible. We have the 1st gen iPhones with 20.00 a month data plans. I have no desire to pay 160.00 a month for the new iPhones when released. Two pre's with sprint will coat us 100.00 with my corporate discount.
I plan on checking out windows mobile again when wm7 is releases but not before then.
Jeff
take a break play with the iPhone and crapberry you'll be back within 4 months. Honestly, it took stupid applications like iBeer to make me want to go back to windows mobile. When I walk into work people with iPhones and BB's ask me why my Fuze or my Tilt looked more appealing than others they have seen. Simple answer, "I got no luck in the game of popularity therefore I spent over a year learning of the capabilities and the love what goes into windows mobile, outside of microsoft". Personally, I think they will never understand but when you show them easy written applications like "positions" and pdf reader "hustler" or "playboy" magazine, for some reason they believe you are a porn star, cause its that real...
edit: actually iPhones in Boston are played out so if you have a nice looking Tilt or Fuze it will get you ass. However, you may have to pay for an expensive hotel and some cheap ass beer too go along but that is how i roll. Nobody stops my floss.
Well, iPhone is no option for me. I like the modding that was possible with both my UIQ phone and WM. Android is what I now think will be the smoothest and more loadingtime free OS. I'm sad that it isn't possible to have android on my xperia. To me the xperia actually is the most good looking phone on the market today.
I could'nt say that my experience with winmo was bad. I had always enjoyed tweaking, ROM flashing, looking and exploring for new and better application software, trying out all kinds of different user interfaces, playing with registry, etc. I had always thought of winmo as the best thing since slice bread - until I tried out iPhone. To be honest, I had always brushed off iPhone as just a toy, as something that I would give up a week after owning it, etc. Had always been annoyed with people arguing that iPhone is better than winmo device.
Then, one day, an XDA-developer forumner whom I respected a lot made a post saying that he had already switched to iPhone and has never looked back. That was when I first took notice, and started to research more seriously about what iPhone could do. I thought all along that I would have to give up all the cherished applications on my Athena if I switch, so I first spent time finding out what applications are available on iPhone. At that time, I could not find any credible solution on GPS navigation and Office document editing. I also thought that I'm too addicted to my Tengo software keyboard to want to give up. In addition, I read a lot of posts saying there are serious 3G reception issues. So, based on that, I decided to buy a Touch HD instead.
I was estatic with Touch HD and made recommendation to a few person who too made the purchase. It was'nt perfect for sure. The response time was inconsistent at best, music playing stutters, album was slow and often causes freeze, camera capture taking too long to save and come back, picture is poor under poor lighting condition, etc. But I was still perfectly happy, perhaps because over the years, I had developed such a high tolerance for imperfection.
The iPhone purchase was probably an impulsive purchase because it was selling cheap. To be honest, the first day when I used it, I did'nt like it too much. Many things I did'nt know how to do. Did'nt like not being able to multitask, copy and paste, no video, no MMS, and the user interface looked set in concrete and unchangeable.
But then, I learned to jailbreak the phone. It was difficult in the begining because I did'nt know of a good forum to get help from, after all, I'm a winmo and XDA person, right? After that, I'm now really happy with iPhone.
- at the system level, my iPhone multitask, I can do global cut and copy, send MMS, do video recording, customise my springboard (desktop) to my heart's content, easily get music/movies without any restriction whatsoever .
-In general, my replacement application programs are far far better than the equivalent that I had on my HD.
- I can find lots of useful applications (don't listen to those who tell you that you only get iBeer and iFart from Applestore) from both the applestore and Cydia store. Many of those programs are simply not available on the winmo platform.
- VOIP calls that I make with my iPhone is far clearer than with my HD. No echo. No breaking up of voice. No need to use headset.
- All my videos play smoothly now. No more synchronization problem between video and voice. No more dropped frame.
- Camera captures really fast, including in poor light. It does'nt have autofocus and flash though, so this is still an area that iPhone should improve on. On the other hand, the camera softwares are excellent. You can change the contrast, exposure, and sharpen the picture after they're taken, and this compensate somewhat for the poor picture.
- I like the way it notifies me of any update to my applications, and they are all free. Even if I had previously installed and deleted an application, it tells me that I had already made the purchase (even the free ones are considered purchased) and would let me download it again free (even if now it is no longer free).
- Love the responsiveness. Even with very tiny area, such as the little link on XDA site that brings me to the first unread post, could be easily activated without zooming it.
- Consistent user interface is another really appealing aspect of it. On my HD, I had programs from Vito Technology, Resco, SPB, and they all look different. Some have full screen and have their own finger friendly keyboard, some still use stylus. Not a serious issue, but it was really good to have consistent UI.
What I still don't like about iPhone?
- I don't like the fact that I cannot change battery in the middle of the day. With my HD, I carry a spare battery because one isn't enough for me.
- We still have no credible GPS software on the iPhone, at least not outside US. In US, G-Map on iPhone looks like a pretty good GPS software that works without internet connection, but outside US, there is'nt any that can operate without internet connection. Even if there is, I am not willing to use anything not as good as TomTom 7, which among other things give me overspeeding, red light and speed camera warnings. I still use my HD to run TomTom, Garmin and Mapking (because TomTom does not have maps in all the countries that I visit).
I had been keeping an eye on Palm Pre and Google Phone. Google phone could be manufactured by any hardware manufacturer so in that aspect it has a better chance of becoming popular amoung the hardware suppliers at least, unlike iPhone which nobody else are allowed to manufacture. However, the applications on both Google Phone and Palm Pre are too limited at the moment. Also, because of the absence of control and openness, I think the user interface on google phone is going to varry greatly from application to application, so you will not have the same consistency as iPhone application. Palm pre's inabiilty to operate as a world phone bugs me, in addition to the fact that it is still the first generation phone, which is bound to have much unresolved issues.
WM7 is of course not to be discounted completely. It is supposed to be revolutionary. Like using the camera to detect your hand gesture (wonder what it is like to operate the device in the dark and impact on battery though. Also wondering how would devices without front camera deal with it.). However, application development would have much to catch up. The biggest obstacle I think is the fact that MS tries to make the OS backward compatible. There are just too many different hardware out there by now. Pity the developers on winmo now. If they develop anything now, it would have to be redone when WM7 is available. I get the feeling that many are developing for iPhone for now, hence the explosion of software availability there.
I hope this thread is a place to share information, not to bash winmo in anyway. So, let's be courteous to each other and refrain from putting down winmo platform.
Paitor said:
Well, iPhone is no option for me. I like the modding that was possible with both my UIQ phone and WM. Android is what I now think will be the smoothest and more loadingtime free OS. I'm sad that it isn't possible to have android on my xperia. To me the xperia actually is the most good looking phone on the market today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can do lots of modding with iPhone too, and much of those modding are not available with WM. You can even make it look like a PC if you so incline. But you must jailbreak it first in order to do it.
redbandana said:
take a break play with the iPhone and crapberry you'll be back within 4 months. Honestly, it took stupid applications like iBeer to make me want to go back to windows mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me, the more time I spend with iPhone, the more I grow to like it. It is amazing to find how customizable the phone is. It is also amazing to find that one single button in iPhone could so easily let you switch between active tasks, terminate program, launch most recently used programs, and with the power button do screen capture, do soft reset, etc.
Not all applications are entertainment in nature. You can get serious medical applications, enterprise resource planning type applications (including SAP and Quickbook), office productivity applications (Pocket Informant on iPhone is far more useable than the winmo version), etc.
The only really lacking area is GPS software, but that's likely to change with firmware 3.0 that removes the artificial restriction apple set.
Otherwise, WM applications are falling behind that for iPhone. There are many reasons why this is happening. Some winmo developers have discussed the reasons for this on this very interesting thread here:
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/ed...s-mobile-apps-falling-behind-iphone-ones.html
jeffla said:
Although I do like my iPhone, I HATE apple. Going from my kaiser to the iPhone was a huge change. Mostly good, but putting up with apples bs is obnoxious. They are so restrictive. I miss the days of rom flashing, changing web browsers, media players, notes applications......just to try something new. With my iPhone, I can only change what apple approves, and that is very little. I am eagerly awaiting the Pre's release. Currently I pay AT&T 135.00 as month for two iPhones with the cheapest plan possible. We have the 1st gen iPhones with 20.00 a month data plans. I have no desire to pay 160.00 a month for the new iPhones when released. Two pre's with sprint will coat us 100.00 with my corporate discount.
I plan on checking out windows mobile again when wm7 is releases but not before then.
Jeff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too feel that Apple is going overboard in the type of restriction it places. That's why I jailbreak my phone, to free myself from all the restrictions.
This is an article related to the current thread that makes some interesting reading.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10151228-82.html
Great essay you did there Eaglesteve. I know some things about jailbreak and what comes with that because of a friend that have one. But to me, the hardware limits on iPhone is to big. The important things too me that iPhone lack is, qwerty, MicroSD-slot, changeable battery, radio (I'm lazy sometimes), photo led (great as flashlight) and a good GPS.
eaglesteve said:
I too feel that Apple is going overboard in the type of restriction it places. That's why I jailbreak my phone, to free myself from all the restrictions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, if I jailbreak, can I drag and drop my music files? I hate having to sync my music files via itunes, or Media Monkey. I just want to drag a few songs over before work and just be done with it.
jeffla said:
Hey, if I jailbreak, can I drag and drop my music files? I hate having to sync my music files via itunes, or Media Monkey. I just want to drag a few songs over before work and just be done with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you can. You can also name the music file anyway you want rather than having it renamed by ITune. The music file could be copied to your own sub directory.
Paitor said:
Great essay you did there Eaglesteve. I know some things about jailbreak and what comes with that because of a friend that have one. But to me, the hardware limits on iPhone is to big. The important things too me that iPhone lack is, qwerty, MicroSD-slot, changeable battery, radio (I'm lazy sometimes), photo led (great as flashlight) and a good GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Paitor,
One factor that puts iPhone on the negative light is the fact that no hardware vendor other than apple through Foxconn is allowed to make the handset. This is both good and bad. Applications are easier to test and bugs more easily fixed. Also, having just one company controlling it nobody could pass the bug to another company if the graphic accelerator does'nt work (wink wink). You also don't have the risk of undersized hardware specification and slow device. On the other hand you don't get lots of choices in handware specifications such as those you've outlined.
Actually iPhone hardware contains the FM receiver all along, but disabled at the moment.
I believe Tom Tom will soon be available once OS 3.0 is released.
Hi guys.
Currently i walk around with a G1 in my hands. It's rooted with the latest jf version. I've had this phone since it came out and i like. Now here is where things are getting tricky. Two months ago, i received a promotion at work. I am now the administrative assistant at my company. I know people say that is just a glorified secretary but definitely not the case here. I run projects for my boss analyzing the amount of business we bring in and which one of our competitors is taking away our business. i tend to us Microsoft outlook daily alon with word, excel and powerpoint. (me and access can't get along). My sweet,sweet g1 is not up to snuff. It's a cool phone, but for what i'm doing, it lacks the software and syncability i need. (prove me wrong on this one if you can).
So, to all at xda, i'd like you to point me in the right direction for a true business phone. The is no limitation on provider, at most 300 dollars (before rebate and with a new customer 2 year plan with a provider other then T-mobile). I have to be able to edit and view Microsoft documents. A good amount of internal memory or an expandable slot. A physical keyboard. I need a proverbial work horse who when i say jump, ask me how high. Now any suggestions don't necessarily have to be out now. if there is a great phone coming out within 2 months (like the touch pro 2), i can wait. But i can't wait past august 15th. guys, i really need your help with this one. I just don't have time to go around and test so many phone. I like to run a potential phone through it's paces for 4 days before i decide on keeping it(love t-mobile for letting me do that. one week i tested the slide, blackberry curve, pearl, wing and dash) So guys please, help me out. Thanks
sidenote- why do phone company's want to make a cell phone so much like a laptop, Why not make a small laptop that can make phone calls. most professionals today carry briefcases and bags and push come to shove, they can use bluetooth.
rickyteddyb said:
Hi guys.
Currently i walk around with a G1 in my hands. It's rooted with the latest jf version. I've had this phone since it came out and i like. Now here is where things are getting tricky. Two months ago, i received a promotion at work. I am now the administrative assistant at my company. I know people say that is just a glorified secretary but definitely not the case here. I run projects for my boss analyzing the amount of business we bring in and which one of our competitors is taking away our business. i tend to us Microsoft outlook daily alon with word, excel and powerpoint. (me and access can't get along). My sweet,sweet g1 is not up to snuff. It's a cool phone, but for what i'm doing, it lacks the software and syncability i need. (prove me wrong on this one if you can).
So, to all at xda, i'd like you to point me in the right direction for a true business phone. The is no limitation on provider, at most 300 dollars (before rebate and with a new customer 2 year plan with a provider other then T-mobile). I have to be able to edit and view Microsoft documents. A good amount of internal memory or an expandable slot. A physical keyboard. I need a proverbial work horse who when i say jump, ask me how high. Now any suggestions don't necessarily have to be out now. if there is a great phone coming out within 2 months (like the touch pro 2), i can wait. But i can't wait past august 15th. guys, i really need your help with this one. I just don't have time to go around and test so many phone. I like to run a potential phone through it's paces for 4 days before i decide on keeping it(love t-mobile for letting me do that. one week i tested the slide, blackberry curve, pearl, wing and dash) So guys please, help me out. Thanks
sidenote- why do phone company's want to make a cell phone so much like a laptop, Why not make a small laptop that can make phone calls. most professionals today carry briefcases and bags and push come to shove, they can use bluetooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take a look at the HTC x7510
Dirk
thanks
thank dirlan. If i could find that for 350, i'd be very happy. But the 899 price tag i see floating around is just killing me.
rickyteddyb said:
thank dirlan. If i could find that for 350, i'd be very happy. But the 899 price tag i see floating around is just killing me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very sad you live in the US In Europe , the boss would be the one that pays for it ...
Dirk
would go for the touch pro, very comfortable phone with its 5 row keyboard imo and not very expensive, or wait for the touch pro 2. The main problem with the tp2 is that its very big. big and expensive. Besides the winmo phones, the only other option would be a blackberry, like the curve. Since you already tested it, you got to decide yourself which platform is the one of your choice ;-) blackberries are usually easier to get along with but by far not as powerful as the winmo devices But blackberries run muuuch longer on battery power, if thats necessary to you.
Sidenote: To get a nice office suite for blackberries, theres no way around but to pay for one. Only readers are included. Thats an advantage with winmo ;-)
I had a Blackberry Curve and Flip, and have now switched to a Touch Pro and Touch HD. Battery life is good enough, but not nearly as comfortable as with the bbs. But I really love the devices in terms of expandability, thats why I would never trade them back in - but thats not a reasonable factor if you havent got time to mod and tune your device
After owning HTC phones now for over 3 years, when will HTC start listening to people on forums like this one and htcpedia.com, then start making phones with the features that we are asking & waiting for. And just as important when will they start making accessories for these phones. Now owning a Touch HD for over a year I was looking at getting the new HD2, but it appears the mini usb port still does not support music or porting video through it (this is also true on the Touch HD yes I was disappointed when I found out). I would also like to have a built in FM transmitter. I think HTC are missing out on a great future for their phones.
Jez
P.S come on HTC sit up and take notice.
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Livven said:
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello Livven
Not crying just disappointed with HTC and thinking maybe it’s time to change, to a phone producer that is listening ,it appears that’s exactly what apple are doing. Been in touch with HTC direct about a month after I got the Touch HD asking them to include certain things on the next model and a year later the HD2 was launched which appears to be a big screen HD with no more capabilities.
Cheers jez
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
markgamber said:
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Mark
I hear your frustration about the eXpo....I bought a IQ from Telus (the Canadian version of the eXpo) and really didn't like the UI AT FIRST. But the phone has really grown on me. Maybe you should consider keeping it for a couple of weeks, and then giving it back if you still want to.
1) I now find I am figuring out the UI and I am starting to like it. Using Throttle Launcher(free) or Spd Shell($) are both options that are very similar to the TF3D or Sence UI if you really find you want to abandon the S Class UI but I would say try it for a week or two and you may like it...there are things you can do faster than TF3D as well as slower.
2) The stylus situation really sucks. No argument. I have found that after I set my phone up, I can get by without one especially when you figure out how to use the optical mouse functions.
3) GPS I am on Telus, so maybe AT&T has screwed you, but my Garmin Mobile XT software works just fine on my Telus phone. I did have to play a bit though. I installed the Garmin software, and it couldn't find the GPS. I then went into the windows settings, and set up the phone to use COM port 4, and then went into the Garmin setup and selected COM4. STILL no joy. But I then changed the Windows setting back to controlled by windows, and the Garmin software found a "GPS Intermediate Driver". Works great! Locks FAST, and no lag like when I used the Garmin Mobile XT on my Touch Pro.
I have installed Opera Beta 2U, and it with the HSPDA data and the snapdragon it is simply is the best mobile internet experience I have ever used or seen.
Good luck with you Phone hunting,
Hi jez.stix
I have a similar list to you...I got a Telus IQ (Its a Canadian eXpo)
How the IQ compares to your list:
1. winmo
YUP 6.5 (21868)
2. gps for satnav YUP - but check into this (See above ATT may have locked to there software)
3. fm transmitter YUP....sorry! Read this as receiver, Has a FM receiver but no transmitter to go to your car stereo..
4. tv out. YUP
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station ...not sure what you mean here..if you mean like all the docking stuff they sell at Walmart for IPhones..NOPE..of course it has a USB connection.
6. 3.5mm headphone socket NOPE
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works YUP..works quite well with flash
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up YUP OH YAH BIG TIME
The real down side is that it is not a HTC unit so XDA won't support it the way they do a HTC product. I decided I could live with that but that was the hardest pill to swallow. The build quallity is heads and shoulders above my old HTC Touch Pro
good luck in finding your dream phone.
jez.stix said:
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
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The iPhone is actually pretty nice, I just had a couple technical problems with it and, being a dev, I grew really tired of Apple dictating what I can and can't do with my phone and my apps. The most notable thing about the iPhone is that it's fast. When you start a program, it's up and running in short order and stays fast unless it has to do something really intensive or relies on a slow network connection. This being opposed to WinMo where it can sometimes take forever to do anything. This is, of course, because the iPhone doesn't do much real multitasking but if that's not an issue, then the iPhone probably warrants a look. Another problem I had was that most of the world uses WMV/WMA for streaming audio and video and the iPhone not only doesn't support it, Apple has stated that it won't approve anything that does support it. Sometimes you can get around that using Orb but not always and that leads to the third big problem I had with the iPhone, Apple's little tinpot dictator attitude. I've been using Slingplayer for years on WinMo phones and yes, AT&T says you can't use it but the practical side is that as long as you're not an a-hole about it, they don't really care. The bottom line is that I can make the choice about whether or not I want to use it. iPhone's Slingplayer simply doesn't have the option to work over 3G. In fact, the only app of that kind which did was Orb and, as I hear it, Orb Networks just removed it on orders from AT&T and Apple. Technically yes, you can jailbreak the iPhone, install a hack that fools programs into thinking 3G is wifi and those various programs work, but it's a hack and not something you can count on working with the next system update since Apple is working hard to prevent those kinds of hacks from working. Plus they're starting to be exploited by hackers of a less than friendly nature. The iPhone also didn't support what I considered some basic functionality such as cut/copy/paste, MMS and bluetooth audio, for quite some time. When Apple finally decided to include that functionality, they acted as though they invented it. That continues today with the lack of quite a bit of multimedia types, refusal to allow Flash or any browser other than Safari, any kind of advanced bluetooth functionality, multitasking and so on. Again, if you don't care about any of the above, you should probably take a look at the iPhone if only for comparison. It's also *VERY* finger friendly, much moreso than WinMo, and you don't like having to wield a stylus at all, I'd definitely take a look at the iPhone.
I don't know why these WinMo companies are so slow to adopt things that seem like basic functionality to many users but they do improve their products, albiet slowly at times, and they're still a magnitude better than the competition, in my opinion. The HTC Titan sold by Sprint was, without a doubt, the worse piece of garbage I ever owned. HTC actually had the balls to put a measly 128mb of ram in there, put WinMo 6 on it and then let Sprint add all it's worthless slop to it. The bottom line was that it took half a day to boot and when it was finally done, it left somewhere between 8 and 12mb free...not even enough to run Slingplayer. Sprint charged $600 for that chunk of s*it and when I raised hell about it, Sprint not only refused to take it back, they wouldn't even cut me a break on what I had to buy to replace it. That's why I'm now with AT&T. So HTC (and other companies) do improve their products. One valuable thing about the Titan was that I learned to buy a phone for what it can do, not what it's capable of doing.
That's my main problem with the Expo and why I returned it. On paper it's a nice phone and there's a lot of potential in the hardware that is either unrealized or lost in the mess LG slapped together. Hopefully LG improves the system over time but right now it's pretty awful, in my opinion, and no update will ever help that poorly implemented stylus and, most likely, the poor battery life.
htc response
thanks for your email. You are correct, The HD and HD2 do not have TV out. Only the Touch PR line of devices has TV out for using with presentations and the like. The TV Out function was not highly requested in the market research that we did, so we concentrated on what the request were mostly for...larger screen, multitouch, standard 3.5mm jack etc. TV out was very far down on the list of wanted features. As for the music abilities, the only thing i know of that was removed on the HD2 was the remote control. This has returned on the HD2 as we needed to develop one that worked with the standard 3.5 jack that the majority of our customers wanted. This was the only thing removed from the HD. We think we must be doing something right as we are selling more handsets than ever, and winning lots of awards for our handsets as well. However, obviously you cannot please everyone, and if we have failed to meet your needs then i apologise, and hope that whatever device you choose, whether it be one of ours or not, i hope that you will be happy with it and it is everything you want. Best regards, Pete W HTC
I once contacted HTC about their lack of attention to this site.
The response i got made a lot of sense sadly.
Because of all the ROMs made on here and all the software that we reverse engineer from them and others, they cannot associate themselves with us at all due to illegality.
But still, this being the case, I think they could still use this site as a good place to do market research upon. Just because xda-devs is the largest collection of winmo users in one place that I know of, it seems to be the perfect place for them to go to see what their end users want.
I am a designer myself and it seems stupid to ignore the biggest resource of research and ideas.
It seems everywhere I look while doing my g-tab research, this debate rages. And, just like abortion and the relative value of left wing versus right wing, most of the time the debate degenerates into name calling and general idiocy. I actually think it IS an interesting discussion to have.....and one with valuable points to be made on both sides. It is important for people to go into the decision of which product to buy with a full quiver of knowledge rather than buying something which doesn't meet their needs or wants. Whether we are talking about three hundred bucks or six hundred, it is not pocket change.
First and most out of character for me, I want to talk about the strengths of the ipad. It is, in typical Apple fashion, a beautiful, iconic, well designed gadget that makes gadget whores the world over salivate to get their paws on it. Despite the many negatives about a closed technosystem (which I will get into later) Apple's technosystem also provides a simplicity and elegance that is almost unmatched in the operating system universe (with the possible exception of Webos). When I am advising friends on what computer or gadget to buy, if money is not an object, I always say this: if you want to do ten things simply and elegantly, ios is a great choice. But if you want to do an eleventh thing, or any of the first ten thing in a different way, Apple won't let you.
Surprisingly, one of the arenas that Apple is really dominating is portable gaming. After years of being a PC gamer and scoffing at my Mac gamer friend with their pathetic game library, I thought that Android would at least be on par. Much to my shock, even Webos is a vastly superior platform for gaming when compared to Android. It is my opinion that Google and Nvidia need to address the sad dearth of good games ASAP if they have any hope of breaking into a race in which they are already a lap behind.
Finally, I will say that Apple has done a masterful job of building an absolutely rabid fan base. As an overarching company, it's frankly shocking the kind of product dedication they are able to inspire. A few years back when Apple laptop hard drives were failing at an alarming rate, my hard core Apple friends looked for ANY excuse to let the company off the hook. But they have worked VERY hard through marketing and mostly (minus Steve Jobs) fantastic public relationsto build that kind of relationship with the consumer. Android and it's various licensees need to develop an interface that is much more user friendly and accessable to the non technically minded public.
Now to my beloved Gtab. Clearly from a hardware perspective it is on par with, or arguably superior to, the ipad. What seems to be overlooked in these discussions over and over is that to compare the Gtab and the Ipad is essentially the same thing as comparing a Honda and a Lexus. A Honda will most likely last as long or longer than a Lexus, and run as well or better. But people who buy Lexus are willing to pay a tax on luxury and brand name. But the Lexus costs over twice as much, so ultimately comparing the two based on their merits is less valuable than asking what the owner wants from their purchase. Clearly the Gtab, clocking in at around half the price of the Ipad, is a far better bang for the buck. But if what the consumer wants is the brand name, cool factor, and the 'it just works' mentality, and they are willing to pay a premium for the 'privilege' of owning Apple, then an Ipad may very well be the right choice for them. However, I think that with VERY little
technical know how, the Gtab quickly becomes an obvious alternative. It obviously holds the advantage when it comes to the web (complete flash compatibility is a fairly huge advantage right now and could become a bigger one as people develop useful flash apps for business), and the open market is both an advantage and disadvantage. There is no quality control in the Android market, but there is also far more scope for creativity and innovation now, and depending on how Google etc play their cards, and most definitely in the future.
Obviously, cheap memory expandability is a massive advantage to the Gtab. Non- expandable devices, in this era of cheap flash memory, cannot be looked at as anything but simple greed. The same goes for proprietary ports and cables. Gtab has a clear advantage here with usb, micro usb, microsd, and the possibility of easy hdmi out in the future.
Android itself has major advantages and disadvantages. It is not nearly as intuitive or as easily picked up as Ios, but it has far greater room for quantum leaps forward. Ios, to avoid alienating it's core users, is forced to take a far more conservative, evolutionary approach. Android needs to use this to it's advantage by making bold, market changing leaps forward and continuing to undercut Apple on price point, rather than playing catch up and releasing expensive tablets and trying to compete with Apple at what they do best (I believe the Xoom was a fairly major miscalculation, but won't go into that now). Apple is at risk of falling into operating system complacency like Palm did in the early 2000s. Android should leap on innovation, and reward it well....swype is a fantastic example of this. I'm writing this on my Gtab with swype right now, and there is nothing in the virtual keyboard world that even comes close.
In closing, let me say that I choose Honda over Lexus. I choose an open technosphere where I can use technology as I wish. I love my Gtab and plan to use it for the foreseeable future...but I pray that Nvidia and Google get together and realize that an open system doesn't have to mean a system without a game plan. Nvidia needs to get on the stick and release a raft of games that show off the technology Tegra 2 can bring to the table. Android tablets, and specifically sub 300 tablets could be a real draw to young gamers as an alternative to the new DS and the forthcoming PSP IF they had a good library of possibilities. They need to continue to support those of us that have already jumped aboard. Make us be the missionaries of their coolness. Just in the Woot/Tigerdirect liquidation over 10,000 Gtabbers have been added to the ranks. That is NOT an insignificant number. They need to build as many IT/business friendly apps as humanly possible. Apple's insistance on doing things their way has left them extremely vulnerable to any companies that can offer a more business friendly solution. This and this alone is why RIM is still in business. If Viewsonic and all other licensees could get even a portion of the 18-25 portable game market AND get a portion of the 30-50 business market, they would be in an excellent position to take a bite out of the big Apple. Having said all this....I admire Apple. I admire their consistant refinement of already existing technology. They may only make evolutionary leaps, but damn they do it well. But as long as I can buy more product and more freedom for half the price, that's the way I'm walking.
I'll just say that I bought the gtablet for the family so that we could surf the web on a comfy couch. Web content includes flash. The ipad doesn't support flash.
The OS is irrelevant when you're surfing the web, so the choice is obvious.
What was the point of your thesis? Who and why would you go with any general consensus on any man made products these days especially when they are mostly made in China with the exception of the lexus Isn't that one of toyota's non-braking brands? Mostly people are swayed by emotional responses to what they feel they may be getting. It is sad to know so many are building their self esteem, self worth, value from having or owning innate objects including g tab. Enjoying is one thing but feeling superior as a result of is another.
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.
edirector said:
Enjoying is one thing but feeling superior as a result of is another.
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Funny story. So, I was sitting on the train other day going home. Had my gtab out playing some games. Out of all the seats that were available around, one guy had to sit down right next to me. I usually don't mind so I usually have my stuff between my legs instead of taking up a seat like some people. So, without pausing, this guy got out his ipad 2 and started playing games with it.
What I found funny was that I was dressed practically in rags because I had spent the whole day in the concrete lab working on one of our test machines. This guy was in some casual business attire (very white collar-like).
The gtab really is the poor man's tablet while the ipad and the xoom are the rich man's tablets.
I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.
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I wouldn't go that far with apple. I do recommend apple to most people who ask for my advice. Let's admit it. Apple really is made for those who only sees the outside. And it works right out of the box.
goodintentions said:
Funny story. So, I was sitting on the other day going home. Had my gtab out playing some games. Out of all the seats that were available around, one guy had to sit down right next to me. I usually don't mind so I usually have my stuff between my legs instead of taking up a seat like some people. So, without pausing, this guy got out his ipad 2 and started playing games with it.
What I found funny was that I was dressed practically in rags because I had spent the whole day in the concrete lab working on one of our test machines. This guy was in some casual business attire (very white collar-like).
The gtab really is the poor man's tablet while the ipad and the xoom are the rich man's tablets.
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I can't stand apple products for me they have no value. The company is not environmentally or human rightfully responsible. Coupled with the arrogance of jobs thinking the entire Internet should change their usage of flash because he doesn't have the capacity to put it into his products. And I particularly don't like the ipad because it is nothing more than a pictorial cash register with the lion's share going to apple. Nothing about Apple appeals to me not even the design. The fisherprice gui or the odd shapes and the rotten apple logo. Anytime you bite into an apple and leave it uneaten it rots. To each his own reasons to buy or not to buy.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go that far with apple. I do recommend apple to most people who ask for my advice. Let's admit it. Apple really is made for those who only sees the outside. And it works right out of the box.[/QUOTE]
But it doesn't ipad 2 has serious operable issues and economic standing in life has no correlation to tech toys. Who can't afford an iphone they are selling for $49 and you can get ipad at walmart. People utter such nonsense in reference to apple products. I paid $500 for my cell phone cash.
It boils down to a matter of choice. For myself I will own 2 or 3rd of these products none apple. I will pick up playbook next as soon as I see what the development community can do with it. My spouse offered to buy me an ipad not costing me a dime I said don't waste your money.
I agree and have said much the same thing since I bought my first Droid 1. I have since upgraded to a Droid X and the Gtab.
Apple is great, if you like living inside a tight little box. Android is for those who like to express themselves and push the limits.
Then I started some new classes and they give me a Macbook Pro. I must admit, the packaging was very nice, especially compared to my last HP (that is now trash because HP won't support it...) but the first thing I did was pull out my copy of Windows 7 and partition the hard drive. I might have to do some of my design work on the Mac partition, but the rest of my time is spent on a "normal" computer.
I would agree with a lot of the thoughts already expressed on this thread, however I don't think that the gtab is a "poor man's tablet". To say so implies that our tabs are somehow less than the xooms and ipads. In almost every category the gtab holds its own or far exceeds the competition. In fact, with the exception of the display (which I actually don't have issue with since I'm in landscape all the time anyway), I think the hardware is superior in every way to the ipad. The fact that Viewsonic managed to make a product compete on a level playing field with the top tablets in the market today for less than half the price is incredible and goes to show how much the manufacturers (especially Apple) are making off of consumers.
I do recommend ipads for my friends who aren't tech-savvy. As was said before, Apple products just work and you do have to respect that. The completely closed system in which they operate allows for total control and an unparalleled experience for the AVERAGE user. My Evo and my gTab are inoperable for some length of time about once a week because I won't stop messing with them. And Apple products do look sexy, in a man-purse gucci sunglasses kind of way.
Comparing iPads and gTabs as Honda and Lexus isn't a fair comparison. A better comparison would be a modded out Nissan Skyline GT-R with twin oversize turbos, nitrous, and a shake-your-neighbor-out-of-bed-to-watch-your-burnout tunable exhaust (That's the gTab) versus an out of the box Ferrari. Both are fast. Wicked fast. And both look sexy in different ways. The most important thing is that they both run a 1/4 mile in pretty much the same time. The Ferrari has a v12 and a carbon-fiber monocoque chassis from the factory, but the Skyline has more cupholders. The guy driving the Ferrari gets out of his ride at the local Starbucks and has every money-grubbing trophy wife drooling on it. The guy with the skyline has to reprogram his standalone ECU to back it out of the garage, but gets his hood shined by models for Turbonetics. The Skyline has a back seat.
The gTab is not a poor mans tablet. The gTab is a tablet for people who want to smoke that d-bag in the ferrari but are smart enough not to drop $120k on it. And comparing the gTab to the iPad isn't even worth doing. The hardware is too close to call, the benchmarks are inconclusive at best. What we should be doing is comparing end users of these products.
I would say both have their places. I love my gtab and believe it suits my needs and temperament to a tee. However, I am by training and inclination a tinkerer and I don't mind the occasional lockup or reboot as the price I pay for the ability to tinker. My wife and mother, on the other hand, would be seriously torqued if it happened to them on anything approaching a regular basis. Consequently, they both have iPads and not gTabs.
I am the antithesis of an apple fanboy (my wife gets pissed because I constantly refer to her iPhone as an iSuck) but not really for any reason other than what I perceive as the inherent arrogance of The Steve and his minions. And I dislike being dictated to. But other than my philosophical issues with apple I really can't say too much negative about the iPad, other than I think it's ridiculous that they have neither SD card support or, and I consider this borderline criminal neglect, USB ports. For people like my technophobic mother though, they are just what the doctor ordered. The iPad is the only device we've ever found that will consistently allow her to access the web and email without turning her off or intimidating her.
On the other hand, I think the android tablet market has a lot of promise but is trying hard to strangle itself at birth with the pricing structures the manufacturers keep adopting. That's all I will say about that for now (though I did rant about it here: http://www.swamphole.org/content/tablet-computing-101). If the vendors can get that under control and Google doesn't piss too many people off with their to-date refusal to release Honeycomb, I think these tablets have a very bright future. Right now I don't think any of them are stable enough for anybody but the people who are tech savvy and/or don't want an iPad for whatever reason. For those folks that are willing to put in the effort I think devices like the gTab can be made into far superior tablets than any iPad.
Thanks, Macros764, for your post. This us (non-Apple users) versus them (Apple users) feeling has existed for ages now and it's good of you to remind us that there are 2 almost entirely different markets (and possibly mentalities) at work here. Another person noticed what you hinted at in your post (the Honda vs Lexus distinction) and commented on it long ago.
I'm talking about Neal Stephenson's interesting essay, "In the Beginning... Was the Command line", which you can search for on Google (as a new poster, I can't add a direct link here).
His essay written in 1999 was about Linux, Windows and Apple users, but you can replace Linux with Android everywhere in that essay and it will still all ring true.
I like Mr. Stephenson's terms for the different kinds of users. Android users are like H. G. Wells's Morlocks--they're the ones who like to tinker with stuff and tend to know how those things work. Apple users have always been the Eloi. They don't care how things work as long as it does (and it looks good).
I tend to be a Morlock (and I suspect a lot of the users on this forum are too, to varying degrees), but some days, I wish I could be an Eloi.
Enjoy reading the essay. Be warned that in true Stephenson style, it is a very long piece.
An enjoyable and thoughtful piece - better than the usual flames and rants that the word Apple usually provokes. Never one to miss an opportunity to add my two cents, here I go. To begin with I have many years experience - I was in IT before the PC was born so I've had a chance to watch the whole thing from start to finish. There was a time when there was just DOS and every computer ran it - branded or clone. There was another alternative CP/M and I used it but it died by natural selection. I think there was even Unix around at that point but it was specialized. Later there were a lot of different things to choose from Windows, Apple, Commodore and lots of other things that have disappeared. Windows evolved into the os for business (after IBM shot itself in the head with OS2) and Mac became the os for graphic arts. It kind of stayed that way for a long time and Apple really was a niche market. Linux appeared but it was brutal in those days. Everything was manual setup, X sometimes worked and sometimes didn't and you had no idea how things would work on your particular box. I have been playing with linux since those early days but ultimately in my business environment windows was the os of choice. Apple remained something that "the print guys" used. In my mind the displacement of the walkman by the ipod marked the shift of Apple's fortunes. Whether it was the cash or the public perception of Apple or both they suddenly became a much bigger player. They clearly "got" the marketing thing and their closed garden approach did make them very palatable for the masses who were willing to pay extra to be safe from the blue screen of death, endless virus attacks and debacles like Vista. Linux has continued trudging but the continued fragmentation still prevents it from really getting into the game. Ubuntu is the best hope for Linux in my opinion. They seem to have figured out that mainstream users don't need 10 different word processors in each distribution - just one good one that works something like Word that people are used to. I think that if Ubuntu continues the way it is going it will see more and more adoption over time especially as Windows becomes more and more clunky in the effort to squeeze cash out of increasingly savy users. The problem for Ubuntu is that it may be too late.
Increasingly, I find that the tablet idea that I once scorned is probably the direction that things will go in for many users. Executives where I work want to know if they can have a tablet - not a laptop to take with them. People at home are happy to curl up on the couch with a tablet to surf the web, read email and interact with friends. Apple knows this because they have had the experience with the ipod, the iphone and now the ipad. Their closed world gives them a huge advantage because they don't have to worry if google is going to release the source code for them or if Invidia will bother to write drivers for them. They control it all.
So, what's a g-tabber to do. Well we can't make Google release Honeycomb, we can't force Invidia to write drivers and it doesn't seem like we can even get Viewsonic to do much of anything. I worry that Android will fragment the way Linux did and all the competing versions will just sap the strength of the whole.
That said - I've got Vegan Ginger on my tablet, I've added Clemsyns kernel with CIFS support so I can access my files on my server. I've picked and chosen apps, 99% of them free so I can do almost everything on my g-tab that I can on my PC. It is fast, cool, and completely under my control. I keep pushing the envelope to see what else I can do with it. If it never evolves beyond where it is right now it will still be the best $300 I've spent on gadgets. The developer support in this forum is enviable and I know that I haven't done or learned everything about the g-tab yet. So my g-tab may not be the expensive fancy sports car ripping down the highway that the ipad is but man, when I go off roading and mud bogging with my g-tab, I have a blast! So choose your vehicle for you activities and don't try and second guess yourself or anyone else. Life is short - be happy!
austontatious said:
I would agree with a lot of the thoughts already expressed on this thread, however I don't think that the gtab is a "poor man's tablet". To say so implies that our tabs are somehow less than the xooms and ipads.
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I don't think it implies any such thing. It does, however, define your social status. It's like what school you went to for college. For some, the only reason they went to school A, which costs $60,000 a year, is because they're following the family tradition and the father is some lawyer or doctor. For others, a school like Iowa State or U. of I. looks just as good but costs only a fraction of what school A charges.
The ipad and the xoom really were designed for people to show off. Everything about them looks, exterior wise, looks good and classy. The gtab, for lack of a better word, is ugly looking. Here is what Robert has to say about the difference between an android device like the gtab and something more high class like the xoom or the ipad.
Android is like having an old beat-up Chevy - not much to look at at first, but after some tweaking under the hood, a good paint job and redesigning the interior, you have a great car that not only runs and looks good, but is designed for you because you made it that way. iOS is like a really nice looking car that came off the assembly line - looks nice, runs great and all the car shops have accessories for it, but there's nothing unique about it. Looks like everyone else's car. So it depends on what you want.
In almost every category the gtab holds its own or far exceeds the competition.
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And yet a lot of people on this forum have specifically expressed that if they had the money they'd buy the ipad or xoom.
In fact, I am convinced that if the ipad, xoom, and gtab all cost the same, nobody would even consider buying the gtab... except for me. I like to hunt down non-mainstream items to own. I don't like my stuff to look like everyone else's.
I have a G-tablet. I like it. I wish it had Netflix and HuluPlus like the Ipad. I wish it was easy to find accessories for it, like the Ipad. Having not ever actually used an Ipad, at this moment I sort of wish I had one, If I had one I would probably miss all the tinkering I can do with my Gtab.
If my Gtab could stream netflix and huluplus it would be no contest.
Pexcer said:
I have a G-tablet. I like it. I wish it had Netflix and HuluPlus like the Ipad. I wish it was easy to find accessories for it, like the Ipad. Having not ever actually used an Ipad, at this moment I sort of wish I had one, If I had one I would probably miss all the tinkering I can do with my Gtab.
If my Gtab could stream netflix and huluplus it would be no contest.
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I have both an iPad2 and a Gtablet. The iPad2 is very nice, and does what it does very well. And, it prints to the local laser printer. Streams netflix, etc.
You have to jailbreak it to get access to the stripped down MacOS that is iOS, with shell, etc, which I'm not doing - did that with an iPod Touch a few years ago, and although its fun it really doesn't add much now that the app store has soaked up most developers.
iPad2 = just works. If it does what you want, you're golden. If you're willing to risk a $600 device, you can jailbreak it and gain a level of tinkering that is about 20% of the tinkering you can do in Android on the GTablet.
So, yeah - GTablet is way more fun to tinker with, swapping in new kernels, playing with various roms... Android is still a lot rougher as well, and more open (you can drop in stuff *not* from a walled garden) but for the average person who just wants a pad to couch surf, read the news at breakfast, do their email, read books, or play games... iPad2 is going to do it. It's going to do it as well as a laptop, and a lot more conveniently, without the hassle of virus checking or other crap that most people would just as soon not deal with.
I feel like the "status symbol" argument is a strawman. If you're just a regular person, not into coding, tinkering, etc... not into more than surfing and email and maybe some games, the iPad is going to be as good as a laptop, and about as much if not less in cost. This is why the iPad is eating into laptop sales, and killed the netbook market.
Can Android get there and compete? Unless Honeycomb is way WAY better than Gingerbread, I think they're at least a year if not two away from parity with the current iPad2 just on software. Again, I'm not considering myself (or likely anyone who would even visit xda-developers) as the iPad target market. But there are way more people in the target market than are here
I have both. I bought the G tab back in January knowing full well the issues with it. It was my intention to mod it like most here but for one thing or another haven't done it yet. I do like customizing main screen anyway I like to, with widgets and such, something the IPad can't do. The fact that I can convert movies on my pc and copy by USB drive is great. Photo viewing, music, surfing the net, audio books are great on it.
I decided I really wanted the IPad for my business which has many more and better apps suited for it. I can take pictures of job sites , keep track of estimates and invoicing with some very good apps.*
The whole Mac cult is creepy but I knew about that. The display is very good, no denying. Form factor, great.
I am keeping both of them.