Related
Ok, here's the deal
I'm getting really frustrated lately at the quality of posts on this forum. I came here about a year ago because i didn't know a thing about about my phone and had a desire to learn a lot. At that time I was greeted with nthing but kindness and a willingness to help.
Now...
Nobody, it seems, regardless of how much or little they have contributed to this community can so much as ask a question anymore. Questions will usually get answered, but almost never without 6 or 7 flame posts accompanying it. I see literally hundreds of posts from people saying we need to cut the clutter in forums. I personally like some of the personal convos that happen here and considered many members here to be friends and comrades.
I guess my point is this. Even if a question is driving you nuts it's easier to post a link to the page containing the answer than it is to write a hate letter to a new member. If you are that new member, it's easy to read the forums (most of them really aren't that long and that's what we have a wiki for). let's cut the stress on xda a little, eh? At last check I thought this is where we all came for fun. Am I right?
I agree
It is hard to get answers...here...I thought some were friends too....turned out that they were not very nice....I have learned alot here....but it seems that I learned the hard way.....I thought is would be fun too.....sometimes it's a pain in the ass to figure some stuff out.
Peace
Mike
Calaelen313 said:
Ok, here's the deal
I'm getting really frustrated lately at the quality of posts on this forum. I came here about a year ago because i didn't know a thing about about my phone and had a desire to learn a lot. At that time I was greeted with nthing but kindness and a willingness to help.
Now...
Nobody, it seems, regardless of how much or little they have contributed to this community can so much as ask a question anymore. Questions will usually get answered, but almost never without 6 or 7 flame posts accompanying it. I see literally hundreds of posts from people saying we need to cut the clutter in forums. I personally like some of the personal convos that happen here and considered many members here to be friends and comrades.
I guess my point is this. Even if a question is driving you nuts it's easier to post a link to the page containing the answer than it is to write a hate letter to a new member. If you are that new member, it's easy to read the forums (most of them really aren't that long and that's what we have a wiki for). let's cut the stress on xda a little, eh? At last check I thought this is where we all came for fun. Am I right?
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Well said. Unfortunately unfriendliness seems to come in an annual cycle (there are reasons - I won't bore you with). At these times it can be quite depressing, the joy in our time here can dwindle very low and some may even leave.
You might say, "hang on, he's a Mod, why doesn't he do something about it? The answer is we try, but sometimes it's as if these antagonistic periods come in waves and popping in now and again to Mod the odd thing here and there is not enough.
However, if you spot abusive, unhelpful posts then click on the report post button. We have an improved system for these reports to get to the Mods, but it only works if members use it.
Things will improve, generally around July/August if the past is anything to go by!
Mike
whats some good programs to install?
Um well....... what do you want to do? Are you going to flash a new ROM? What are you using the phone for? These are the questions I have for you. Without knowing that we can't tell you what to look for.
sigh.. just go to the site in my sig, tailored just for you.
And before you post on xda again please read the rules and guidelines first.
Click my sig, i got hundreds of cabs.
I know the OP asked when he could have searched...
But i am in the same boat and was also wondering what everyone is using. His question (and the replies with apps in the sigs) is going to make my life better too
So thanks OP for asking a disliked but useful question....
Dillsnik said:
asking a disliked but useful question....
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for the 10^10000000000th time.
well, i look at it this way...it doesn't hurt anyone here if someone ASKS....there is no gun to your head to answer it. only chime in if you feel like it. The OP's title is very explanatory of what he was asking so no one should have opened the thread unless they either wanted to reply or were curious of the responses given (like me). To be fair, i have never quite understood the strictness imposed which seems to cause so much frustration in (many) forums.
Signal to noise ratio, man. The fewer redundant threads, the fewer months it takes someone to get the same knowledge and tools from xda forums for their phone.
I had no problem answering his question (hell I spent countless hours designing a website to accommodate people in his shoes) and I'm sorry if I came off as bitter but the rules make sense to the people who made the rules and to me and especially to those reading the forums on their phones with a browser or RSS.
Think of Slashdot. There by default you wouldn't see things like this as they would get moderated below the default threshold. If you're so inclined, you can modify the threshold up or down or order the posts in various directions. That makes Slashdot a lot better than it used to be before they coded that. But wouldn't it be nice if XDA could continue to get away without needing the forum equivalent of that kind of system if people would just post properly and when newcomers do not that they are advised to check the rules (and, in this case, their questions get answered too)?
And yes, because of this thread a bunch of people are getting cabs they didn't have from various sigs and now that this is turning into a debate a lot more people will get cabs. But would you not agree now that we are both right? Or do you truly not mind the boards being flooded with the same questions the wiki and searching satisfies? Not to mention spam and people trying to sell their phones. Signal to noise ratio.
Doug
Dillsnik said:
well, i look at it this way...it doesn't hurt anyone here if someone ASKS....there is no gun to your head to answer it. only chime in if you feel like it. The OP's title is very explanatory of what he was asking so no one should have opened the thread unless they either wanted to reply or were curious of the responses given (like me). To be fair, i have never quite understood the strictness imposed which seems to cause so much frustration in (many) forums.
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I think for some it's just a matter of frustration. I've been guilty of it myself, and got my hand slapped by the mods in Q&A for an inappropriate flame. Speaking for myself, I first joined a little over a year ago and read everything available. This allowed me to avoid asking questions that had already been answered. I'd hazard to guess that the "ask first and search later" approach is viewed by some as intellectually lazy. I can also see the other side that you point out. This site can be very intimidating and some people may just not know what to look for -- especially if they're new to WinMo. I've now adopted a no-flame approach (don't want to get slapped again). I'm certainly no expert, but I occasionally can provide an answer or suggestion, even if it's nothing other than providing a link to the appropriate thread. I figure it's the least I can do for all the great help I've received here.
d0ugie said:
Signal to noise ratio, man.
Doug
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Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
Phaze13 said:
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
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Hey thanks for backing me up. Heh, the Dude.
Glad you got good use out of the site! And guess what, you can get even more out of it because I got your default rings (HTC's and MS's) in the first paragraph of section 9, notifications.
Doug
@D0ugie
First off, i didn't think your reply was too negative. You just pointed out that people should search first and ask later, which i agree with. I think in my mind it's the level of grey that exists with the "search first" motto that is debatable. I have spent a LOT of time in some instances searching for a needle in a haystack, sometimes in fear of knowing that if i pose a new thread for a quick answer i might get flamed for it. And there are times when i asked before i probably should have (had one of those the other day) and felt like an idiot for it. And then there are the times where i was looking for something but maybe didn't even know it, and had someone else ask it and be like, wow that is exactly what i wanted to know. And then there are still the times where i asked a Q and wasn't sure if it was a good question and whether or not i'd even get a reply, and had a huge discussion evolve because of it and lots of people glad i did ask.
Obviously, the repeat of the same question over and over can make it harder to find the BEST answers, but sometimes i will search and not find that right thread and then someone points me to it and i am like, that just saved me SO much unnecessary searching, THANK YOU.
The bottom line though is i love this community and, in general, everyone here is amazing and so helpful and giving. I feel lucky to be a part of it and wish i was a better developer and had more to contribute.
Why So Serious?
meth0dGSX said:
Why So Serious?
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@you lol. Perfect time to add that
@OP You could search the Raphael software/Diamond Themes, Applications, and Software/Developement & Hacking which are sections specially made for app posting.
EDITED, sorry if I offended anyone.
Phaze13 said:
Can't help but say that in my head with the Dude's voice from The Big Lebowski.
Well put! I trolled this board months before I got my Fuze on release day. After I got it, I finally registered at xda. Just now I flashed my phone with a NAFT's new ROM. Countless threads of information to go through for someone with tendencies of ADD its hard to take it all in a fast as I want to. Many saved bookmarked threads. Think this might be my 4th post. I wanted to take the easy/short cut and ask but all the information is there. Just had to search and read & read & read again.
There are many talented, smart & helpful people on the forum. This forum totally kick ass in all reality.
BTW d0ugie, website kicks ass! Helped me out tremendously 6 weeks ago.
Now off to search for may att stock ring tones I didn't backup before the flash.
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Funny i was looking for the Dude trying to get a little Time of from XDA and accidentally used the Google XDA search. This was the only result.
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825531964825142534%3Acqr2sjirilw&q=the+big+lebowski&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I didn't know that until i accidentally searched for it.
Well for those in the Dark here's the Short Version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqtgfjkB6Pg
Please delete me when the fun's gotten out of it, but at least XDA should get back two search results from now on, on The Big Lebowksi
In two weeks:
http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...esult&cd=1&q=Noonski+the+big+lebowski&spell=1
Should give you at least one result on finding out my true identity.
A few posts deleted, that is already more then any of us would have wanted on a Forum meant to harbour information.
Don't Flame a man trying to show you the light of XDA, it attracts to much attention of Moderators even when they are trying not to.
If you go to my 4shared, you can find pretty much any application that will do whatever you want on your WinMo based phone.
OK so i know this is the wrong forum, BUT I came across this and wanted to "bump" it so to speak. This was posted by kyphur in 08 and in a mods sig now. Please read and adhere to the spirit of the post. It is RIGHT ON!!!
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
the idea is not that only developers should be looking at this site, but that this is a place where developers communicate with each other and the beneficiaries of their work. This is not the place for someone to post threads about general questions about how to use or mod their device. This is a place that will develop the capabilities of the android platform if it is allowed. Developers WILL abandon this forum if it becomes a bulletin board or a technical support site.....and if you need a question answered, there are other forums on THIS site to address those.
Agreed 100%. While developing for the Windows mobile, I also got the same thing. I would post a thread and WARN people of a certain things and tell them how to fix it. Then I'd get 30 pages of "geeze, you broke something. how do you fix it?" That gets annoying real fast. I would love it if this forum forced people to take a test before they could post in the development sections... Before that, they should only be able to post in the regular sections.
One thing that really bugs me is the fact that the newbs don't want to search but don't realize that they take OUR time to search FOR them. No one knows everything. Every developer on this site searches and learns. I know that if you put together all the time that I've spent on this site JUST researching and searching, it'd be MONTHS and MONTHS of non-stop, no sleep searching and researching. So why can't the average person search for 2 minutes? Is their time worth more than my time?
/rant - while talking on the phone so it might not make sense...
Pinesal said:
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
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There are thousands, but essentially all they do is copy stuff off here.
Like the post said, if you just want to root your phone so it can do 'cool stuff' and not give a **** about how the damn thing works then maybe you shouldn't be modding your phone (that wasn't aimed at you btw, just 'people' in general the market place is made up of 99% 'these people' who don't/can't read and it's pretty irritating.)
Agree with the post 100%, fantastic
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
Agreed. It's really, really, really, really getting to me. I wish OP's had semi-moderator power. They could at least delete all necessary posts and ban that user - if required- for a certain amount of time from their thread only.
jubeh said:
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
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ughh, no i'm not an admin, and no almost all my posts, or the majority, or a half are reported threads, but i do try to help out the mods when i can. they are not on all forums at all times and can use the help, and they have said as much.
Oh thank you thank you! People here should want to understand why thing the work as they work. Not just want their phones to look cool.
As it you wouldnt know it, i have been with xda for years well since the titan came out. before that i was modding an ipaq and of course the old palms. everyonce in awhile i lose interest and move on only to come back when i have something new(major a.d.d). i do write java as well as c and even c++(so on) i typically find this place useful to try stuff out and even set up my own custom rom just for me. i dont post because i can google. while i have many of my own questions i would like answered i simply dont ask most of the time(such as using micro kernels and modding app2sd to make the os have two options sd in or out. however the problem is not the generations or age difference or anything like that. its social systems outside of xda. posting a reply used to mean an answer or something useful. now its normal to simply post "great job". thats nice and all but maybe instead of complaining about it we should come up with a new system that improves xda. like a sorting system or sub thread system and set up catagorys for our replys. like thumbs up would be for the "good job". i know its hard to keep everyone happy but this is a forum first, a forum has design problems when you get the number of people xda has. use advanced search it helps a lot. a sorting system with requirements for certain catagorys would help devs. its not easy modding and getting it right and you cant do it alone. xda is the help even if its not your phone sometimes others have solutions too. such as winmo users putting android on their phones(yes i did it too my old titan for fun). things i learned and other devs learn can help us and vice versa. i have yet to find bad technology only poorly thought out ideas that could have been. which is why we mod.
p.s. wtf is up with palm and blackberry ads all the time.
Most of those kids just want the answer or fix in the next 3min. with perfect steps or a patch that supposedly will fix and hack their device,after that they´ll never show up.
All they want is to show off without bothering to read.
I totaly understand. I do feel sometimes that certain devs do get a bit annoyed with people who just want to fix the phone and not understand. I'm not linux or coding wiz. But whe I got here in may I was one of the people who just wanted me phone to be better than urs. I still have that to some extent but I have developed more of a "how and what is causeing this issue" attitude. I try to contribute as best as I can. Helping out over at q&a as best as I can. I enjoy xda and without my days would be more boring than what the are now. I dunno I guess I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I have tried to correct my attitude toward modding. Hell I even post my email so users can drop a line if they need help.
i am 20 and i fondly remember blowing into my nes super nes and genesis games.
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
saprano614 said:
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
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nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
jaaronmoody said:
nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
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Just want to make a statement befor someone did.
I thank you for this post. I came to this forum a long time ago I have learned quite a bit and appreciate everything that is done here. There are very skillful people that are on here and I wish I had the amount of skill then thesemodders, hackers, developers etc... have I keep my mouth shut unless i feel there is some thing that i know how to answer, i have never complained about a single rom i simply research what can be done to change for fix it, all answers rely in a search somewhere either here or google. I just wish other people would do the same then we would be able to prevent a 300+ page threads where only about 25 pages are worth anything.
look at the amount of posts from someone who knows they are barley able to contrubute(but do what he can) and been here this long. compared to people who have been here dont have much to contribute but love to post everything that comes to thier minds.
Join Date
22nd October 2006
Total Posts
89
samygent said:
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
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Click to collapse
HEY!
im 18 and clearly remember blowing into those damn games to make them work. but when they worked, so much fun i still think theyre better than the crappy xbox and ps3 games of today... but thats just me. lol
pleeease yall! let's keep THIS thread on topic! LOL!!
So this is slightly off-topic, but I think it ties in a little bit to a question/reaction that often comes up on the board.
I regularly see people posting a new thread with questions that have been asked before, and others become upset with them for posting something that has already been answered. This then leads to annoyance/anger on both sides, as the question-asker feels bad for not finding the answer (often after searching), and the question-answerer feels frustration because the forum has another new thread for something that they feel shouldn't have to be asked again.
I found this, which is the US Coast Guard's manual dealing with making decisions in stressful situations (it's a pdf). On page 11 of the document, it describes people trying to make decisions in stressful situations. It explains that an individual in a stressful situation where real danger is present (think back to the first time something went wrong on your phone....) will tend to say that there's not enough time to solve the problem, and that the person is not able to process information efficiently. It then says that the person will deny that the problem can be solved (by them).
Translation: The phone breaks (messes up, etc). The person sees that the very expensive device they own is not working right, and they begin to panic that it might not be able to be fixed. They know that XDA is an source for answers and help, and in the panicked state, post a question without thoroughly thinking through the action.
Ok, so why am I on a soapbox about this? Two reasons:
1. I don't know about anyone else here, but I can clearly remember times where I did something to my phone that I thought I had killed it. It was a real uphill struggle to stay calm and search diligently until I found what I was looking for. I would just like everyone to think back to their own experiences like this when replying to people who seem panicked.
2. To people who are panicking because something has gone wrong: try to relax. 99% of the time, whatever is wrong with the phone can be fixed, and you've come to the largest wealth of information available about your phone. Just take a little bit longer to do a little more searching before you hit the post button. And don't be afraid to use Google outside of XDA, or to search within the thread results.
And if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
(For more reading about stress' effect on decision-making, see this. It's the US Army Survival Manual, Chapter 2).
I vote because they are stupid.
And/or just haven't been in forums enough to understand how they work.
some people here are jerks
I vote nubs. Or just ignorance
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
I think most of the time people just don't read up enough before flashing, they come to the site and see a ROM that they just have to get and they get in a hurry and bad things happen.
I read and read for about a month before I dared to flash and I haven't had any problems.
Now my friend comes to me every time she needs help with her phone like I know what I'm doing lol. But really I just know that the answer to any problem is here already you just have to find it.
Sent from my captivate running Speed and Looks Ginger Style
i am a noob so i know why (at least in my case)
1. should have read TRusselo's new user guide on first visit to xda
2. sometimes i search and do not find then a member shows me a thread i didnt know about thus confirming my inability to search successfully
3. some people post things in the wrong section (there is an off topic section, this is the captivate section and posting without searching is not exclusive to captivate users) this is a joke, not serious or meant to offend the |OP|
4. no knowledge of correct keywords to search (all the acronyms is like chinese to a noob) is there a xda dictionary for noobs?
5. the first thing we (noobs) do is panic. then we panic more. finally we relax...then panic again.
on behalf of all the noobs that post without searching we are sorry and as we learn more about the site we will improve upon our mistakes. please be patient with us, we appreciate your help and feel honored to be a part of this site.
We already had a thread like this. Use the search function.
Sorry about that. I'm still hunting for that link, but if you provide it, I'll update the OP.
I have discovered that I can't post up findings, observations or give thanks to the developers in the development form, because I do not have 10 posts
everything I search for I find, so no need to post.... so I am thinking some just post generic questions to get the post that they need.
But I do have to agree with the OP, when you think you killed your phone, you panic
jmtheiss said:
Sorry about that. I'm still hunting for that link, but if you provide it, I'll update the OP.
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I have a feeling that was just a joke playing on what you are posting about
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Yep, agree with op
Explains it on a deeper level than noob, lazy, or stupid. Some posses the ability to work in stressful situations and some don't. Those need to learn how before becoming a member of xda.
You're over complicating it. Half of the problem is that the native vBulletin search feature is wimpy and doesn't often return helpful results. And of course it consumes lot of server resources, it's down about as often as it isn't, and even when it is working you can only do it once every 30 seconds if you want to revise research terms or if you make a mistake. A Google cse custom search engine might go a long way toward helping out.
Chiding users for not using search is at least a little misplaced in my opinion. Comparisons to decision-making in critical life or death stressful situations are at least a little off-base.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Rrryan2 said:
You're over complicating it. Half of the problem is that the native vBulletin search feature is wimpy and doesn't often return helpful results. And of course it consumes lot of server resources, it's down about as often as it isn't, and even when it is working you can only do it once every 30 seconds if you want to revise research terms or if you make a mistake. A Google cse custom search engine might go a long way toward helping out.
Chiding users for not using search is at least a little misplaced in my opinion. Comparisons to decision-making in critical life or death stressful situations are at least a little off-base.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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I agree with both views. I have yet to meet a v-bulletin site whose search function was worth a tinker's damn... and a number of the folks who voted "stupid" or "lazy" when it comes to someone posting a repeat question seem to forget that this is a very large forum, with tens of thousands of posts. Sometimes, finding the one post or series of posts that can be of use when you think you've just killed your $199 to $500 phone can be a bit tough.
Also, even when it's not a subject I have a vested interest in finding the answer to, I sometimes appreciate the repeat of a question that has already been asked because often someone (whose ego isn't so invested somehow proving their worth by being "right") will ever-so-kindly skip the lectures and point out threads I had no idea existed--and which I can then bookmark for later reference.
I've learned some very cool things about the care and feeding of my Captivate as a result (to say nothing of gaining more general information on a number of devices), so I'm not overly inclined to squawk when someone asks a question that's been asked before.
kevalin said:
I agree with both views. I have yet to meet a v-bulletin site whose search function was worth a tinker's damn... and a number of the folks who voted "stupid" or "lazy" when it comes to someone posting a repeat question seem to forget that this is a very large forum, with tens of thousands of posts. Sometimes, finding the one post or series of posts that can be of use when you think you've just killed your $199 to $500 phone can be a bit tough.
Also, even when it's not a subject I have a vested interest in finding the answer to, I sometimes appreciate the repeat of a question that has already been asked because often someone (whose ego isn't so invested somehow proving their worth by being "right") will ever-so-kindly skip the lectures and point out threads I had no idea existed--and which I can then bookmark for later reference.
I've learned some very cool things about the care and feeding of my Captivate as a result (to say nothing of gaining more general information on a number of devices), so I'm not overly inclined to squawk when someone asks a question that's been asked before.
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Amen to that!
z28james said:
I have a feeling that was just a joke playing on what you are posting about
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
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In the immortal words of a small Sicilian man,
"INCONCEIVABLE!"
Next let's hear your theory on pointless, off topic threads!
AJerman said:
Next let's hear your theory on pointless, off topic threads!
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And how to search for them?
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
This thread needs to have an article on the XDA front page portal ASAP
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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As a noob who spent a LOT of time/energy/effort researching on my own trying to unnoob myself before asking silly questions I understand where the frustration is from. People like me who took that time (I'm talking many hours per day for straight weeks - 100s of hours!) are frustrated by people who expect easy answers with minimal effort. It's easy to panic if something unexpected happens and you no longer have a working phone but that's the risk you take and no one should bear the brunt of that panic but YOU.
That said, I actually agree with you. I think not replying to people who ask dumb questions is probably a better way to help the community at large. The knee-jerk reaction when tension is high is to send a smart ass response but that doesn't teach anyone anything. I know it's tempting, I've done it, but all it does is feed the troll. If a noob asks a researchable question and NO ONE answers, maybe it will inspire this noob to search for the answer on their own. And if/when they find it, they can be proud of themselves for figuring it out and next time I will bet you they search first and ask questions later. The bigger problem is that sometimes a SUPER NICE person will hold their hand and help them out even if they don't deserve it and then everyone expects this treatment every time.
Point of fact: if you're on XDA you are probably trying to pimp out/modify your phone in some way. This is your choice, and some of the options available to you are not easy. If you aren't prepared to put in the time to become familiar with it first, it isn't worth the risk. I'm sure there is some clause to that effect in the XDA rules everyone agrees to when they sign up but they always forget that.
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
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I don't know too much about things but I'm already willing to learn if i have the time for it. I agree about the rudeness, and every forum is different. I was on the g1 forums too and understand what you mean. When i got my 4GS I came here when deving was picking up on the few excellent ROMs we have now. My device had the new bootloader so i had trouble at first picking up on things since i couldn't S-OFF and had to fastboot boot.imgs EVERYTIME i flashed a new ROM.
I had to read read read like crazy and put many hours into getting my phone to where it is now (rooted and S-OFF via Juopunutbear) and only when i really needed help and couldn't figure things out on my own is when i asked about something.
All it takes is a little effort and i try to help where i can (as little as that may have been...lol) Sometimes i can understand the frustration from both sides.
There is tho, a difference between being rude and getting upset after you tell someone what they need to know and they don't do it. You see people asking the same questions over and over AFTER they've been given a clear fix to the answer and i can see why some get pissed. I know if i can do these things that ANYONE can.
We have good devs and quite a few that truly are willing to help where they can. With the g1 there was an overflow of devs and others who helped. (Can't really compare them) The lack here limits time for most who already have their hands full so we have to be willing to do some things ourselves.
I'm not telling you to leave but things will be this way here probably permanently. Don't think everyone doesn't want to help tho cuz most do
Sent from my 4GSlide using xdApp
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
gtmaster303 said:
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
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Oh man. I should have checked that before spending the time to type out a thought-out response. It confuses me when people spend so much time begging for step by step instructions. In that time you could have read the compendium and had it done by now!
Also - it's the internet. If someone hurts your feelings by being rude on the internet, grow up or log out. Cyberbullying is a serious issue if someone knows your true identity, but you choose to come here. Flame posts are discouraged because they are usually unhelpful. They clutter up threads and get in the way of useful stuff which makes them wastes of bandwidth and forum space. They are not discouraged because somebody might get their feelings hurt. (If I'm wrong about that - don't correct me. I would be super bummed if XDA was that sensitivo about stuff.)
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
K7Cobb said:
Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
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Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
AgentCherryColla said:
Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
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Just one thread for noobs? Why not an entire forum? No, forget that...how about an entire website for noobs????? I'll invent this! I think I'll call it PPCGeeks.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
Every post asking a question already answered multiple times clutters the forum and makes it harder to find those very answers for other people.
Finding one thread in ten is easier then one thread in fifty, especially when forty of them are worthless.
I have volunteered countless hours researching, testing, and writing in-depth step-by-step guides that someone who has no experience can sit down and follow through.
Honestly, asking for things already detailed like that is hard to deal with - the only way to do so would be to physically do it for them.
Everytime I see someone make a whole new thread just to advertise that they are too lazy to go read the answer, it makes people like me think twice about taking the time to write these guides.
I don't usually post to these kind of threads, but it's here so why not.
There would be more walkthroughs and tutorials if people took the time to read the ones already here. Why make them if people won't read them anyway?
So all you people out there who can't be bothered to look for the answer before asking your question, you are turning away the developers and people who could answer your questions.
The more people show up begging for a handout, the less people there are giving it. Eventually that road leads to nothing but beggars, with no one to beg from.
If it wasn't for people asking intelligent questions based on having read my tutorials, I wouldn't consider any further ones. If someone doesn't get it, but actually put effort into trying, I'm happy to help.
Someone can't be bothered to even try to help themselves, why should I try to help them - especially after they are making it more difficult for others to get the help.
Others who deserve it.
Others who have earned it by investing time and effort.
So, I implore people to take the time to understand what XDA is. It is not instant gratification.
Don't ruin what you don't understand.
Every post not adding something constructive is taking away from the ones that do, in a big way. The larger the database becomes, the harder it is to index and process server side, and the harder it is to navigate and use client side.
The answer is here - just look for it.
Be kind, considerate and helpful - try to add more then you take away.
If my post offends you, then you are part of the problem.
So Close the Thread and Move On
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
eparico said:
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
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Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Don't get me wrong, I feel your frustration and those of the other developers and/or mods who are constantly attempting to answer questions that have been asked and answered multiple times already. I've been supporting end users for several years and there are some who no matter how many times you tell them something (sometimes kicking and screaming the entire time), they either ignore what you say or flat out refuse to learn since there's someone there to scoop them out of the hole they put themselves in. I fully agree that some are deserving of a good cyber-smack and told they're being inconsiderate.
However, those who reply to these same threads are also expending just as much time and energy, if not more, telling someone they should do their own research instead of just removing or closing the thread in question. In turn, this would serve to help eliminate that blatant abuse and IMO, take a lot less energy and frustration with the ignorance out of the picture. It would also help to keep the threads and the space needed to maintain this site to a minimum. Self-policing will only work to a small degree. Should it be the responsibility of the mods to babysit? No, but you also can't expect every person who comes to this site to have enough sense to do their own research either. I've dealt with enough end users where I find the expectation from some is that they should be served on a silver platter. After a few time of dealing with this, I reply by not replying.
By the way, I love this site and I thank you and all the other developers who have created these ROM's for those of us who like to tinker with our toys...and read the instructions!
eparico said:
I reply by not replying.
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This is my usual stance as well, but also include the report action.
By self policing I didn't necessarily mean snap back, mostly report so mods can delete.
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement.
Back to the mods babysitting, even through the report function it may take some time for them to get to the thread, based on availability and priority.
Meantime, you do nothing and it's like a wound untreated, and just festers growing continually worse.
What can you do? Some people passed the patience threshold a long time ago. Those that say nothing are percieved to let them just run rampant.
Threads like what this started as, and the ones we are discussing are real blows to morale and interest.
I used to dedicate at a minimum my first half an hour of every login to trying to answer or find answers to questions people have, and help them get themselves straightened out.
Anymore, it seems that most of the questions asking for help are just from people like the discussion is about
If I open the first thread, and it's a question asked all the time with the answer in a sticky, I'll move to the next.
If the second one is too, well, anymore that's as far as I go before I just log out and find something else to do.
It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.
That would get me all juiced up and i'd flow into hours of dev, manning the irc channel and just immersing myself in the doubleshot.
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.
The people replying with smart-ass remarks and garbage are just as much to blame for keeping those threads at the top of the list as the ignorant people who started them in the first place.
Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
A large part of my desire in working on projects for the community was to help people get more out of their device by delivering stable, working software and encouraging education and learning.
Those that want to be spoonfed are winning, I've been recently choosing to do other things then even try to browse the forums here.
I dunno, it's like I went into life to handle some things and start a much more enjoyable and higher paying career. Now that I'm settled in and can spend time back here again, it's like I don't even recognize it anymore.
They say you can't go home once you've been away, because while you may be in the place you once called home it won't be that anymore when you get there.
Never thought in a million years i'd feel like a stranger in the doubleshot forums, but here we are and here it is.
It's kinda made me sad to write this.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement
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After re-reading my post about deleting/closing the thread in question, I didn't word my comment properly. Unfortunately, this responsibility would end up on the shoulders of the admins/mods...the proverbial babysitting we were referring to earlier.
Sorry if this is a sour subject for you. If anything though, I'd take into consideration the number of people who you have already helped on this site instead of looking at the ones who bring you down. I've seen some of your threads and replies to those who you are willing to help and you provide a wealth of knowledge and information. There will always be someone out there who is willing to read and absorb what you teach, and perhaps even share it with others so they too can learn. As a supporter of end users, I understand that feeling of wanting to give up but what keeps me going is the knowing that I helped some of them along the way. The bad apples will always be just that, bad apples. I work in the education field (thankfully not a teacher) so I see this type of mentality on an almost daily basis. Toss them aside and remember you have already helped many more good apples than bad.
Geez, I feel like I'm preaching here so I'll get off my soap box but I'm sure you get the point of what I'm trying to say. Don't ever give up and don't let the boneheads get the better part of you. Lots of people on this site appreciate what you do, including myself.
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
There are very simple rules that span across the internet. One of them is use search on forums. If you don't know this rule, frankly, you shouldn't be messing around with your phone in a way that violates the warranty or changes the configuration beyond what your grandmother can do with the same phone.
Creating threads without searching is the equivalent of going into a crowded mall, standing in the middle and shouting, "I NEED HELP HERE PLEASE". I think many will agree that any person that does that in a mall is an a**hole. You're not ENTITLED to help.
You SHOULD know this. If you don't, you're new to the internet, and perhaps you just don't have the skills or sense to be messing around with your phone.
The one thing that you can't expect people to know is that the answer to your question MIGHT be located in another device's forum. For example, how do you install Time Warner's app on rooted devices? You'd have to search the whole site. But now that you've read this, you know better.
We've all made mistakes. How you make up for them is key. I pay developers. What do you do?
WeekendsR2Short said:
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
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Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
gtmaster303 said:
Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
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Just a touch of truthful sarcasm......:angel:
Blue6IX said:
.....It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.....
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.....
....Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Blue (and others)
Please don't get disheartened, certainly don't give up on XDA. I am relatively new to Android, certainly new to rooting, and I haven't even tried ROMs yet (that's for next week!). I am still working towards my 10 posts, while I've rooted and S-OFFed using the guidance available here.
In my time, I have researched & read up pretty widely on this forum and on others, on all the things I would like to do or am intrigued to find out about (custom boot animations - wow!). These is so much repeated and conflicting information out there. In doing that you soon get to recognise the posts that explain carefully, give step-by-step guides, and are helpful. You also quickly learn whose name is on those posts .They have a natural authority that lends credibility and builds trust. Those posts are the ones I bookmark and use, and those people are the ones I take advice from.
Your name is all over the best and most useful posts. There are others too but I won't name them here. Please don't stop - your efforts are appreciated. If you stop, I have to stop too, as who do I then learn from?