Related
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Let people say whatever they like!
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Well said. This is the worst forum I've ever come across for noob bashing. It's a shame because there are a lot of helpful people here.
The odd post I have had to make asking for help took me 30 mins or so of searching just to make sure it's not been covered before, for fear of getting jumped on by the resident 'net police'.
By the way, if this subject has come up before, I don't care because I didn't search so there!
I agree. Isn't a forum supossed to be just that, a place where people can come to ask questions even though there is a wiki, search, etc?
HEAR HEAR!!!
j1ngles said:
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
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Click to collapse
Well put j1ngles!!! I never had this newbie bashing in the Wizard forum, which I joined almost 2 years ago.
This is the worst forum for n00b bashing this side of the whirlpool galaxy!!!
I agree 110%. If people ask "stupid" questions and someone feels obliged to assist, then by all means do so or shut up.
I have helped n00bs by providing certain cabs etc and then I have been criticised!!!
Good point here - I do believe that one of the mods has actually issued a warning against n00b bashing, so that's a step in the right direction.
Totally agree with you.
The search function is useful, but if you are new how are you supposed to know the exact techie term to make the search results useful?! Who knows how many budding chefs etc we are turning away becuz someone jumps on their back within 2 minutes giving them a hard time?
We're all here becuz we want to learn, and develop our devices into something different and better, so lets try to support each other and be gentle on the new guys.
Well said!
j1ngles said:
All,
I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.
The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.
I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.
Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully agree with you j1ngles!!!
You learn, search terms, how to search and even better (and something difficult for me) patience... after all if you are going to spend the money on a serious piece of equipment (even if you get it as part of a deal with a phone company you brick it you will have to pay) you better learn properly how to do whatever it is you want to do... I am about as far from computer savvy as you can get but I have learned what terms to use in a search, how to use the search and even better how to make notes on what I read and where I get up to so I can refer to a thread and pick up where I left off... I too dont have much time (especially lately) but I still take my time and read, search etc before asking the SAME question for the 2359834098345054390843986th time... on the same page...
A good point very well made.
If you don't want to help someone out fine , just don't post a reply. Better that than to ridicule someone and put them off posting again.
I have +170 posts and still feel like a noob. if search does not give me the answer i am looking for after 5 attempts (or 30 minutes of crawling through plenty of mails) i do ask help. And i also got replies not being helpfull.
This is not about noob bashing
Shadowdh said:
You learn, search terms, how to search and even better (and something difficult for me) patience... after all if you are going to spend the money on a serious piece of equipment (even if you get it as part of a deal with a phone company you brick it you will have to pay) you better learn properly how to do whatever it is you want to do... I am about as far from computer savvy as you can get but I have learned what terms to use in a search, how to use the search and even better how to make notes on what I read and where I get up to so I can refer to a thread and pick up where I left off... I too dont have much time (especially lately) but I still take my time and read, search etc before asking the SAME question for the 2359834098345054390843986th time... on the same page...
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Click to collapse
I have done the same as have many people i'm sure. The question is, if someone askes something that you know the answer to (either from working it out, or reading up) do you give them the answer and point out where you got it from, or do you hold back?
We need to teach people to learn by encouragement, not by attitude.
ghostie said:
I have done the same as have many people i'm sure. The question is, if someone askes something that you know the answer to (either from working it out, or reading up) do you give them the answer and point out where you got it from, or do you hold back?
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I've always favoured giving someone the link, while telling them they could (and should) have searched for it themselves. I also agree with some flaming on obvious or very frequent questions - provided the link is there and the flaming is amusing and light-hearted.
Just my opinion.
I made a similar point a few months back. Another problem is that noobies don't always know what to search for...Because they are noobies...
j1ngles said:
All,
So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldnt agree more with this. I really dont see why an experienced senior member, for example, has to flame a noobie for asking a silly easy question. Either you have a few words to say and shread some light into matter, or just skip the thread, go read something else. I know some of them are ignorant, but the best treatment is to ignore questions like that. This way they will have to search for themselves, if they get no answer.
But to tell them: read wiki, search, use google is simply too useless, will not help anybody.
I understand both sides, but you have to see that once you see a trillion questions asking the same thing, then you get a little frustrated.
I dont think XDA is a service. XDA is a community where people have to do their part, and if you dont do your part, then your not contributing to the community. And yes, searching is contribution. You are gorging yourself in PDA knoweldge and then could help someone else.
However, if you feel that people here at XDA are here to help you becuase this is their job, then your wrong. I'm not saying you, or anyone else does feel this way, but my point is that XDA is not a service, its a community.
I've found the dutty thread to be useless now because of so many questions asking the same thing. There is an onslaught of many questions that were already answered and its hard to find the specific problem your having. I still LOOK, and I still search...and I find the answer.
Though I do agree, being a ***** never did anything for anyone. So the best anyone can do is point them in the right direction until they get it themselves.
If everyone post any question they want to ask without searching, we'll probably end up having 25k pages in every thread. The whole point of searching is to keep forums tidy, so that information can be found faster.
Have you ever tried to find some specific thingsin big DUMP??? (Not a rom dump)
Very True
I agree with the starter of the topic. So you say using search keeps the Forum tidy. I don't agree. The Forum is already full of huge topics and nobody has to have the patience to go through them. HOWEVER, I personally SEARCHED A LOT for some stuff and I usually FOUND what I was looking for. So I admit that it's ok to search! ::- ). But a bit more tolerance for those who don't have this time would be great.
Maybe I just bought a phone and I'm uber-enthusiastic about it and don't want to search 2 days for something. Common, a bit of understanding never killed anybody ::- ). And if there are a lot of topics about a certain problem, they'll show up faster in search, so it's ok. Common, a bit more text never killed a database.
This is a fair point and I would agree - generally speaking a policy of ignore it and move on is best.
However, I have seen instances of people who ought to know better blundering into a thread and asking a question to which they would get an answer if they could just be bothered to look a handful of posts further up.
Not all newcomers are sweet innocents and not all stupid questions are asked by newcomers.
My personal annoyance list is topped by those that ask a tough or poorly defined question and then start stamping their tiny feet if they don't get an answer back within seconds of posting - some people here seem to think this is a formal support forum for 'XDA products', (whatever those might be) and so start *****ing about bugs, lack of response, etc.
Did you ever stop to think that all the people with your point of view are the reason for the search function not being as productive as other sites? When someone doesn't search and just creates another redundant thread, they are directly responsible for polluting the search results.
As I have said before, I will no longer be bashing n00bs who fail to search before posting. Instead, I will transpose their question into Google, and reply back with a link to the search result they need to read. There is one exception to this; people who create 2 or more new threads (within 24 hours) asking the exact same question. That is just rude.
Hey guys I was meandering through the forum reading up on the root progress, and I read about a member's idea and work on an automated root, I just want to say that from a dedicated member to the inc forum I am disappointed in the flaming and garbage that all you "experienced" devs are throwing at the people who haven't used adb before... Come on guys if you can't be kind why say something, you know? They won't learn if somebody is discouraging them from even trying... So just a thought, be kind because discouragement is not what these forums are about guys.
Peace to all you silly android fans out there and happy rooting!
People will make those sort of comments unfortunately.
And people will make these sort of posts about it.
Just another day on almost every community forums.
engagedtosmile said:
People will make those sort of comments unfortunately.
And people will make these sort of posts about it.
Just another day on almost every community forums.
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Just saying man, coming from the inc forum where we actually help eachother... Its no way to talk to somebody who could actually turn into a decent dev, its happened tons of times
It has nothing to do with being rude or polite... The root process is very crude at the moment, recovery is not fully functional and You really can't back up if you fubar your phone... There is a very strong possibility of making a paper weight with the current method ... Just be patient I hear unrEVOked is working on root which won't come out until a solid recovery is running
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Here is a link for anyone needing adb help. i made a post in a thread with links to help users learn adb and understand it. i understand the being new and needing help. the link in the post are the links i used to learn adb and everything with it.
Will go directly to my post with links:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12255365&postcount=27
I agree with the OP...it was just the attitude of some of them that was the issue. Very rude and condescending. I do agree that right now it's a crude root method and that without a solid working recovery it's not advisable for anyone but the experienced. BUT that is no reason to denigrate those that want a one click solution down the line when things are solid.
When the Inc first was rooted, I remember the same types of posts about not knowing adb = shouldn't root.
It's just part of the territory. Also it leads to the same hand-holding through the process 50x a day.
It'll pass, just like it did with the Inc
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Tapatalk
The above post is correct. Don't let anyone discourage you. We were all new to this at one point, and I don't think there is a single one of us that did not get an impolite comment directed towards a valid question at some point during the learning process.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk
People are just rude in general. If you say something someone doesn't agree with, they make damn sure you know they disapprove. I took my leave from the INC forums after the iPhone 4 debacle that happened in the general forum. That and someone told me my ROM list was stupid and worthless in a PM...
I concur, I can ADB like I'm typing a paper (I have extensive command line experience) but my gf, who bought her first android phone recently, can hardly turn a computer on.
Long story short, some people don't want to risk breaking their brand spanking new phone just to have more functionality. If an easy, tried and true method presents itself, people will not only flock to it, but they will gladly give money for it (I know I would). Calling someone a noob or making fun of them is counter-productive and will deter all future forward progress here. No one wants to dev for a bunch of ingrates and jerks.
+1 to the OP.
necosino said:
When the Inc first was rooted, I remember the same types of posts about not knowing adb = shouldn't root.
It's just part of the territory. Also it leads to the same hand-holding through the process 50x a day.
It'll pass, just like it did with the Inc
Ditto- I know what I don't know. And I don't know adb.
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
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Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
I agree 100%. Too many jerks here for this forum to be a useful resouce atm. Maybe one day down the line....
magneticzero said:
I agree 100%. Too many jerks here for this forum to be a useful resouce atm. Maybe one day down the line....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would, respectfully, disagree w/that statement.
IMHO what happens is people get tired of listening to the same questions over and over and over - this is why we have a search button and why google kicks ass too. I think people get snippy after seeing the 8 millionth person come in and ask "what's root" or "what's a ROM".
I'm not sure of the rudeness the OP was mentioning as I haven't seen it in regards to NOOB developers, but from my own personal experience around here I've found this place to be very helpful. I learned all I could about rooting my Eris via google and on another one of the android forums, ultimately a google search landed me here and I took the plunge and rooted and started w/the Kaos ROMS before trying many, many others.
People shouldn't just come in and start asking Q's - they should look around first and when they don't, that's why trouble starts (not here, on ANY forum).
As far as the OP here goes, I haven't read the posts he was talking about, but I can understand why -if somebody was looking for legitimate "how to" info on development and that person was met w/a bunch of crap - they would be frustrated.
I love it here
If you find any rude people pm me about them, I have a hammer
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Captainkrtek said:
If you find any rude people pm me about them, I have a hammer
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We also have a chicken and a kraken (sp??) ....
As one of the newer users here, I understand where both sides are coming from. The amount of content here is kind of intimidating for some people, and those who are looking for a "do everything" solution such as one-click root are going to be dissappointed. And then some people are so impatient to root that they'll be pestering people, asking any question that helps them out immediately, not checking for already posted questions, and that's the hand-holding that is being criticized/attacked here.
But I do see where they are coming from. There is a lot of information here that is important, but with the volume of posts, it gets lost, and there seems to be no direct go-to thread or threads for people to ask questions like that in this forum. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to read all the threads here, nor will many set foot in the general Android forums here I think, so they don't know where to start, and many will ask their own questions in their own thread(s).
If anything, some of the most important information that needs to be more accessible IMO is the links to the driver/tweaking the driver for the device to be picked up with adb.
Russ36363 said:
There is a lot of information here that is important, but with the volume of posts, it gets lost, and there seems to be no direct go-to thread or threads for people to ask questions like that in this forum. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to read all the threads here, nor will many set foot in the general Android forums here I think, so they don't know where to start, and many will ask their own questions in their own thread(s).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We all have our moments. I tend to answer the questions first, then include something like if you have to ask this, you're probably not ready to do it on your own yet, or here's your answer, but a simple search would have revealed it.
Google and search are our friends. Most of the "old timers" just get annoyed when people ask something that could have easily been found with either a Google search (set site to xda if only interested in xda responses) or with a forum search (search from main area that covers all subsections, use "show posts" and skim through the results), because the same question has been/asked answered dozens of times already.
All that said, the sub-forum structure across devices is inconsistent, the protocols of where to ask/post isn't consistent, and the search feature in xda absolutely SUCKS. I've always considered myself a pretty good query builder to find what I want quickly, but even I have to run through multiple searches to find what I'm looking for. The 30 second delay between being able to start a new query can be very frustrating, if xda dropped that to 10 seconds or so, it would probably encourage more multiple searches before asking. It's no wonder newer members get frustrated, though many are just too lazy or desperate to take the time to look...
Captainkrtek said:
If you find any rude people pm me about them, I have a hammer
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright good to know, thank you
Sent from my bad ass mini thunderbolt
Russ36363 said:
There is a lot of information here that is important, but with the volume of posts, it gets lost, and there seems to be no direct go-to thread or threads for people to ask questions like that in this forum.
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Click to collapse
A Q&A sub-forum would help with this. It helped the Fascinate forum out a lot with the very same issues described in this thread.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
Garrett07 said:
Just saying man, coming from the inc forum where we actually help eachother... Its no way to talk to somebody who could actually turn into a decent dev, its happened tons of times
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just want to say that until last night I HAD no idea how to use adb. One of those devs that you are complaining is so rude, got me the help I needed, to the point that they were on RDP with me and handheld me thru it, even straight did some sections.
In ither words I'm finding nothing but help from the dev community.
qwirked said:
I just want to say that until last night I HAD no idea how to use adb. One of those devs that you are complaining is so rude, got me the help I needed, to the point that they were on RDP with me and handheld me thru it, even straight did some sections.
In ither words I'm finding nothing but help from the dev community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said they aren't helping, I'm saying that rudeness is not what forum communities need to be based on, its not right that people have to have attitude online, nor in general, people come to forums for help and communication they don't want to get on a thread and see that somebody has posted a reply being rude to their work and or statement, its just something I'd like to see change but it never will
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum? This way people will have the community they want and devs will get the order and work environment they want.
Please let me know what you think before it will become another one of those threads and be closed by moderator.
Thanks.
Sent from me
In theory it sounds great. However people will not post there for reason they dont post in proper sections here.
The real issue is this, the community is divided. I left the Optimus V because Virgins coverage sucks for me. I really wish I could have kept the phone and plan and the main reason is the community. At AC I swear the people there help everybody. Even if it is a question already asked. Somebody will pipe up and offer a link.
Im guilty as charged in attacking a n00b for being stupid. However witht eh cost of the Optimus V and the extremely cheap plan many people was buying the phone to tether and have cheap internet. And Most of those people were clueless as to what the hell they were doing. In most cases a friend told them about the phone and plan and how easy it was to root and start tethering. As a end user you dont want those people creating issues for your service. So if your rude and refuse to help they go away.
But right now I can point you to at the minimum of five threads where the community is helping the noobs and letting the devs do their thing. If a dev needs to address something they do. Otherwise the community answers questions. The biggest reason for this is changelogs, instructions, and all that stuff is never deleted just updated. Even if the rom has evolved to a new level. The old info is still posted so people can find out what changed in the various releases. Plus even after somebody asks the same question ten others have asked patience is exhibited and answers are given.
The community here needs to stop worrying with telling people to search and start offering help. Most people come here and ask because they dont know how. And quite honestly dont feel like reading thread after thread after thread of rules and guidelines.They are looking to get a answer for the problem at hand. Most of them will go away if pointed in the right direction. However when people start piling on flaming them for not searching properly it just creates more spam in the thread and drives them away. Then you have people that talk major **** about how xda is a bunch of arrogant f*cktards.
Plenty of people do help in my observations. Im new and signed up only to help people. Answered a 'noob' question before making this post, amd I was nice about it too.
Fortunately, most 'noob' questions have already been answered somewhere on here. I know this because every question I have ever had has been answered by searching for it, not by posting. Not by derailing dev threads either.
The dev threads are filled with simple questions with simple, searchable answers. I shake my head when I see the same question asked posts apart surrounding the answer in a non-Q&A forum. And then I see that person who is asking get mad, or cry 'search nazi!' because someone says to search for it. Give me a break.
If the answer to a simple and eady to answer question is out there and can be found by a search, and someone asks the question anyways after being told that is what they should do in yhe futurethat is laziness, not ignorance. And getting on their case is not arrogance, some of those asking questions have high enough post counts here, they should of learned how to make their own way by now.
I should also add that I have no programming experience, and have only been using a smartphone for 3 months. Yet I have never had to ask a question about how to install a rom or fix a brick. Because I searched for the answer, and everyone else should too.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
eollie said:
The community here needs to stop worrying with telling people to search and start offering help. Most people come here and ask because they dont know how. And quite honestly dont feel like reading thread after thread after thread of rules and guidelines.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you think the "experts" learned? I only posted 3 threads in my first 3 months here at XDA. Do you know why that is? I searched and didn't find an answer to my questions and I decided to make threads. Turns out people didn't know the answers to those either. Go figure. Everything else that I wondered about I found a thread or guide for. It's really not that hard.
If you're not willing to do some reading to be able to understand how to follow a guide you shouldn't be flashing anything to your phone.
Holocene said:
Fortunately, most 'noob' questions have already been answered somewhere on here. I know this because every question I have ever had has been answered by searching for it, not by posting. Not by derailing dev threads either.
The dev threads are filled with simple questions with simple, searchable answers. I shake my head when I see the same question asked posts apart surrounding the answer in a non-Q&A forum. And then I see that person who is asking get mad, or cry 'search nazi!' because someone says to search for it. Give me a break.
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Click to collapse
I agree people should use the search function. Have you ever thought they did search and ended up being directed here. I have seen stuff posted and a day later comeback searched the thread because it had grown five to six pages since I seen the post and dont know where the information is. Only to not be able to find the post in question. Yesterday I searched for something I had seen posted the search results..stated they were updated 10 minutes before I had searched. How is that even possible?
FBis251 said:
How do you think the "experts" learned? I only posted 3 threads in my first 3 months here at XDA. Do you know why that is? I searched and didn't find an answer to my questions and I decided to make threads. Turns out people didn't know the answers to those either. Go figure. Everything else that I wondered about I found a thread or guide for. It's really not that hard.
If you're not willing to do some reading to be able to understand how to follow a guide you shouldn't be flashing anything to your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not saying every single question should be answered with a simple heres the answer next time search response. But dont expect every person to read through every guide in fifteen threads to figure out where a wallpaper is located.
Not every person that comes here for answers is a dev or wants to be a dev.
@ eollie: I have a great idea... quit talking about it and writing these long unnecessary posts and start helping. Lead by example! Maybe others will follow suit since you seem to think people don't help others on here. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with these LONG posts?
eollie said:
I agree people should use the search function. Have you ever thought they did search and ended up being directed here. I have seen stuff posted and a day later comeback searched the thread because it had grown five to six pages since I seen the post and dont know where the information is. Only to not be able to find the post in question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I generally bookmark posts that contain information relevant to my interests that I may not be able to commit to memory at the time. Yes, some get changed but most are because the information is wrong or outdated. Another post nearby most likely holds updated info.
eollie said:
Im not saying every single question should be answered with a simple heres the answer next time search response. But dont expect every person to read through every guide in fifteen threads to figure out where a wallpaper is located.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just typed "where in an android rom is the default wallpaper located?" into Google. The first link is to an XDA post titled "Where is a Rom's default wallpaper stored?". The answer to that question is on the first page of the thread. It even has instructions on how to extract it.
Try it yourself. Searching works.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Holocene said:
I just typed "where in an android rom is the default wallpaper located?" into Google. The first link is to an XDA post titled "Where is a Rom's default wallpaper stored?". The answer to that question is on the first page of the thread. It even has instructions on how to extract it.
Try it yourself. Searching works.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
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I spent three hours tearing apart a rom to find a wallpaper used on the lockscreen. Im not a dev nor am I a themer but even doing a search for where lockscreen wallpaper is located kept directing me to widgetlocker and those types of apps. A week ago I would have just posted here in hopes somebody would point me in the proper direction. Instead I just sat in front of my computer for three hours because I didnt want to deal with the responses.
Your smartass response...well its not so smart.
@lumin30 dude seriously if you dont like my posts ignore them. Im sorry the community here is absolutely horrendous in helping people. Prime example is the post I have quoted above. Instead of taking what I was saying and using it logically he took it literally. I wasnt asking where I was using a simple example of what I have seen here. Then he even attempted to insult me with his last comment.
Im not here to make friends or enemies. Im here lookig for ways to better my android experience. When that experience is hampered because some tool wants to be a internet badass it pisses me off. Especially when in the process of berating somebody they prove how ignorant they really are. Most people that post here are human beings once in a while you will get a spam bot but 99% of the time you are dealing with a human. Some are old enough to be your grandparents others your teenage brother/sister.
POST REMOVED for sake of preventing a four paragraph response!
wow.....
i really could say something towards this thread for you guys to feed on, but i'll just shut my mouth and just say one more word.
wow.....
now what's the title of this thread again? sorry, but reading all this here made me forget. and sorry for yet another 4 paragraph response.
sent from within pure darkness
eollie made some ramblings against Raver in the Q&A section too.
eollie - I am sorry! Please do not attack me with four paragraphs for saying that.
MY RESPONSE: OK
lumin30 said:
eollie made some ramblings against Raver in the Q&A section too.
eollie - I am sorry! Please do not attack me with four paragraphs for saying that.
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Click to collapse
And you just cant let it go can you? I apologized to him and he has accepted it. See adults work things out and accept mistakes and apologies. I guess a child like you just wants to keep the friction and tension high so you appear to be superior. Regarding my not following my own advise in ignoring people..I find your posts in response to me very amusing. You just can help yourself and not respond. Your like a woman arguing to get the last word in. You just cant help it. I would say Im look forward to your response but honestly its not fun anymore you are too predictable.
lumin will post within the next ten minutes rebuting me.
Your name calling, swearing, and the chauvanistic and defamatory comments you just made speak on your behalf. Noone on this board is picking on anyone as much as you are. Good luck getting any help or making friends with that attitude. Peace out dude.
@mods Im done with this, sorry about this being new and all. I couldn't continue watching his thread derailing and user bashing without saying anything.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
Holocene said:
Noone on this board is picking on anyone as much as you are. Good luck getting any help or making friends with that attitude. Peace out dude.
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Im glad you feel that way. I have seen it first hand tho. You even did it in your initial post to me. Tried to insult me via your last comment. Good god its like people cant see past their own nose. Im guilty as charged in smashing noobs with a bat. But Ive never claimed to not do it. I just think sometimes it is not necessary.
Holocene said:
@mods Im done with this, sorry about this being new and all. I couldn't continue watching his thread derailing and user bashing without saying anything.
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High road exit was before you posted to me initially. Getting back now will be a long process or winding mountainous roads. Dont forget to enjoy the view along the way tho. There is some awesome put out points to take pictures.
as much as i'd hate to say this, but i see this thread getting deleted before the weekend.
itzik2sh said:
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum? This way people will have the community they want and devs will get the order and work environment they want.
Please let me know what you think before it will become another one of those threads and be closed by moderator.
Thanks.
Sent from me
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now to get back on topic. i personally think it might be a good idea, but unfortunately i don't see it working in this community. we're trying with our wiki page, but it seems that people just want to be spoon fed for this device. trust me, i've checked the mytouch 3g slide forums (my fiance's device) and the galaxy tab 10.1 forums (my next device) and have yet to see what goes on here on those forums. seems to me MOST people with this device are nothing but spoiled little teenagers that are spoon fed all the time. it's no wonder the devs are dropping like flies. if i was a dev, i would leave also. sorry for ranting on your thread itz, but felt this was the best place to put in my 2 cents worth.
sent from within pure darkness
droidmyst said:
now to get back on topic. i personally think it might be a good idea, but unfortunately i don't see it working in this community. we're trying with our wiki page, but it seems that people just want to be spoon fed for this device.
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Click to collapse
I mentioned it before but a lot of people ignore wikis because they are typically out of date. In the beginning people will update them regularly and then just stop. However after some time looking around I can say the SGS4G wiki is just the opposite. Tons of info and for the most part easy to navigate. Which brings up another problem with wikis. The ability to navigate it easily and endless loops of redirects. Again the SGS4G doesnt appear to suffer from that.
Maybe instead of the sticky posts with thread links we could get a single thread with wiki links. That way info is updated and people are spending an hour navigating through search results within one thread. In my mind this makes sense just putting it in print is eluding me.
Idk about the Facebook page. Seems a little too personal lol, and not everyone uses it.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
vgcraze said:
Idk about the Facebook page. Seems a little too personal lol, and not everyone uses it.
Sent from my SGH-T959V using XDA App
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The fact it is personal and exposes peoples real identity is what makes it awesome. Most of the people here wouldnt act the way they did if they were made to use real name and such. Being anonymous has so many advantages and disadvantages.
Can I just point out that I started a thread with a guide to flashing and is intended to help the devs buffer the questions to that thread
Sent from my Kindle Fire using the XDA premium app
itzik2sh said:
It seems that too many devs are leaving us due to repeated noobs question and generally flooded threads.
I thought to myself why not use an SGS 4G facebook page as a gate for all QA & General simple questions and leave development issues and logs for the xda forum?
Sent from me
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Click to collapse
back on the actual topic, since it has once again been derailed by the self-appointed thread police....
Devs are not leaving us only for the reasons you stated. Some of that may be part of it, but it's not the sum total...
As for Facebook page... feel free to create one, and I wish you the best of luck.. as one of those 'weird' people who doesn't use Facebook, i won't be coming to visit it...
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
This thread needs to have an article on the XDA front page portal ASAP
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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As a noob who spent a LOT of time/energy/effort researching on my own trying to unnoob myself before asking silly questions I understand where the frustration is from. People like me who took that time (I'm talking many hours per day for straight weeks - 100s of hours!) are frustrated by people who expect easy answers with minimal effort. It's easy to panic if something unexpected happens and you no longer have a working phone but that's the risk you take and no one should bear the brunt of that panic but YOU.
That said, I actually agree with you. I think not replying to people who ask dumb questions is probably a better way to help the community at large. The knee-jerk reaction when tension is high is to send a smart ass response but that doesn't teach anyone anything. I know it's tempting, I've done it, but all it does is feed the troll. If a noob asks a researchable question and NO ONE answers, maybe it will inspire this noob to search for the answer on their own. And if/when they find it, they can be proud of themselves for figuring it out and next time I will bet you they search first and ask questions later. The bigger problem is that sometimes a SUPER NICE person will hold their hand and help them out even if they don't deserve it and then everyone expects this treatment every time.
Point of fact: if you're on XDA you are probably trying to pimp out/modify your phone in some way. This is your choice, and some of the options available to you are not easy. If you aren't prepared to put in the time to become familiar with it first, it isn't worth the risk. I'm sure there is some clause to that effect in the XDA rules everyone agrees to when they sign up but they always forget that.
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
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I don't know too much about things but I'm already willing to learn if i have the time for it. I agree about the rudeness, and every forum is different. I was on the g1 forums too and understand what you mean. When i got my 4GS I came here when deving was picking up on the few excellent ROMs we have now. My device had the new bootloader so i had trouble at first picking up on things since i couldn't S-OFF and had to fastboot boot.imgs EVERYTIME i flashed a new ROM.
I had to read read read like crazy and put many hours into getting my phone to where it is now (rooted and S-OFF via Juopunutbear) and only when i really needed help and couldn't figure things out on my own is when i asked about something.
All it takes is a little effort and i try to help where i can (as little as that may have been...lol) Sometimes i can understand the frustration from both sides.
There is tho, a difference between being rude and getting upset after you tell someone what they need to know and they don't do it. You see people asking the same questions over and over AFTER they've been given a clear fix to the answer and i can see why some get pissed. I know if i can do these things that ANYONE can.
We have good devs and quite a few that truly are willing to help where they can. With the g1 there was an overflow of devs and others who helped. (Can't really compare them) The lack here limits time for most who already have their hands full so we have to be willing to do some things ourselves.
I'm not telling you to leave but things will be this way here probably permanently. Don't think everyone doesn't want to help tho cuz most do
Sent from my 4GSlide using xdApp
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
gtmaster303 said:
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
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Oh man. I should have checked that before spending the time to type out a thought-out response. It confuses me when people spend so much time begging for step by step instructions. In that time you could have read the compendium and had it done by now!
Also - it's the internet. If someone hurts your feelings by being rude on the internet, grow up or log out. Cyberbullying is a serious issue if someone knows your true identity, but you choose to come here. Flame posts are discouraged because they are usually unhelpful. They clutter up threads and get in the way of useful stuff which makes them wastes of bandwidth and forum space. They are not discouraged because somebody might get their feelings hurt. (If I'm wrong about that - don't correct me. I would be super bummed if XDA was that sensitivo about stuff.)
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
K7Cobb said:
Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
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Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
AgentCherryColla said:
Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
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Just one thread for noobs? Why not an entire forum? No, forget that...how about an entire website for noobs????? I'll invent this! I think I'll call it PPCGeeks.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
Every post asking a question already answered multiple times clutters the forum and makes it harder to find those very answers for other people.
Finding one thread in ten is easier then one thread in fifty, especially when forty of them are worthless.
I have volunteered countless hours researching, testing, and writing in-depth step-by-step guides that someone who has no experience can sit down and follow through.
Honestly, asking for things already detailed like that is hard to deal with - the only way to do so would be to physically do it for them.
Everytime I see someone make a whole new thread just to advertise that they are too lazy to go read the answer, it makes people like me think twice about taking the time to write these guides.
I don't usually post to these kind of threads, but it's here so why not.
There would be more walkthroughs and tutorials if people took the time to read the ones already here. Why make them if people won't read them anyway?
So all you people out there who can't be bothered to look for the answer before asking your question, you are turning away the developers and people who could answer your questions.
The more people show up begging for a handout, the less people there are giving it. Eventually that road leads to nothing but beggars, with no one to beg from.
If it wasn't for people asking intelligent questions based on having read my tutorials, I wouldn't consider any further ones. If someone doesn't get it, but actually put effort into trying, I'm happy to help.
Someone can't be bothered to even try to help themselves, why should I try to help them - especially after they are making it more difficult for others to get the help.
Others who deserve it.
Others who have earned it by investing time and effort.
So, I implore people to take the time to understand what XDA is. It is not instant gratification.
Don't ruin what you don't understand.
Every post not adding something constructive is taking away from the ones that do, in a big way. The larger the database becomes, the harder it is to index and process server side, and the harder it is to navigate and use client side.
The answer is here - just look for it.
Be kind, considerate and helpful - try to add more then you take away.
If my post offends you, then you are part of the problem.
So Close the Thread and Move On
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
eparico said:
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
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Click to collapse
Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Don't get me wrong, I feel your frustration and those of the other developers and/or mods who are constantly attempting to answer questions that have been asked and answered multiple times already. I've been supporting end users for several years and there are some who no matter how many times you tell them something (sometimes kicking and screaming the entire time), they either ignore what you say or flat out refuse to learn since there's someone there to scoop them out of the hole they put themselves in. I fully agree that some are deserving of a good cyber-smack and told they're being inconsiderate.
However, those who reply to these same threads are also expending just as much time and energy, if not more, telling someone they should do their own research instead of just removing or closing the thread in question. In turn, this would serve to help eliminate that blatant abuse and IMO, take a lot less energy and frustration with the ignorance out of the picture. It would also help to keep the threads and the space needed to maintain this site to a minimum. Self-policing will only work to a small degree. Should it be the responsibility of the mods to babysit? No, but you also can't expect every person who comes to this site to have enough sense to do their own research either. I've dealt with enough end users where I find the expectation from some is that they should be served on a silver platter. After a few time of dealing with this, I reply by not replying.
By the way, I love this site and I thank you and all the other developers who have created these ROM's for those of us who like to tinker with our toys...and read the instructions!
eparico said:
I reply by not replying.
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This is my usual stance as well, but also include the report action.
By self policing I didn't necessarily mean snap back, mostly report so mods can delete.
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement.
Back to the mods babysitting, even through the report function it may take some time for them to get to the thread, based on availability and priority.
Meantime, you do nothing and it's like a wound untreated, and just festers growing continually worse.
What can you do? Some people passed the patience threshold a long time ago. Those that say nothing are percieved to let them just run rampant.
Threads like what this started as, and the ones we are discussing are real blows to morale and interest.
I used to dedicate at a minimum my first half an hour of every login to trying to answer or find answers to questions people have, and help them get themselves straightened out.
Anymore, it seems that most of the questions asking for help are just from people like the discussion is about
If I open the first thread, and it's a question asked all the time with the answer in a sticky, I'll move to the next.
If the second one is too, well, anymore that's as far as I go before I just log out and find something else to do.
It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.
That would get me all juiced up and i'd flow into hours of dev, manning the irc channel and just immersing myself in the doubleshot.
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.
The people replying with smart-ass remarks and garbage are just as much to blame for keeping those threads at the top of the list as the ignorant people who started them in the first place.
Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
A large part of my desire in working on projects for the community was to help people get more out of their device by delivering stable, working software and encouraging education and learning.
Those that want to be spoonfed are winning, I've been recently choosing to do other things then even try to browse the forums here.
I dunno, it's like I went into life to handle some things and start a much more enjoyable and higher paying career. Now that I'm settled in and can spend time back here again, it's like I don't even recognize it anymore.
They say you can't go home once you've been away, because while you may be in the place you once called home it won't be that anymore when you get there.
Never thought in a million years i'd feel like a stranger in the doubleshot forums, but here we are and here it is.
It's kinda made me sad to write this.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement
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Click to collapse
After re-reading my post about deleting/closing the thread in question, I didn't word my comment properly. Unfortunately, this responsibility would end up on the shoulders of the admins/mods...the proverbial babysitting we were referring to earlier.
Sorry if this is a sour subject for you. If anything though, I'd take into consideration the number of people who you have already helped on this site instead of looking at the ones who bring you down. I've seen some of your threads and replies to those who you are willing to help and you provide a wealth of knowledge and information. There will always be someone out there who is willing to read and absorb what you teach, and perhaps even share it with others so they too can learn. As a supporter of end users, I understand that feeling of wanting to give up but what keeps me going is the knowing that I helped some of them along the way. The bad apples will always be just that, bad apples. I work in the education field (thankfully not a teacher) so I see this type of mentality on an almost daily basis. Toss them aside and remember you have already helped many more good apples than bad.
Geez, I feel like I'm preaching here so I'll get off my soap box but I'm sure you get the point of what I'm trying to say. Don't ever give up and don't let the boneheads get the better part of you. Lots of people on this site appreciate what you do, including myself.
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
There are very simple rules that span across the internet. One of them is use search on forums. If you don't know this rule, frankly, you shouldn't be messing around with your phone in a way that violates the warranty or changes the configuration beyond what your grandmother can do with the same phone.
Creating threads without searching is the equivalent of going into a crowded mall, standing in the middle and shouting, "I NEED HELP HERE PLEASE". I think many will agree that any person that does that in a mall is an a**hole. You're not ENTITLED to help.
You SHOULD know this. If you don't, you're new to the internet, and perhaps you just don't have the skills or sense to be messing around with your phone.
The one thing that you can't expect people to know is that the answer to your question MIGHT be located in another device's forum. For example, how do you install Time Warner's app on rooted devices? You'd have to search the whole site. But now that you've read this, you know better.
We've all made mistakes. How you make up for them is key. I pay developers. What do you do?
WeekendsR2Short said:
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
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Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
gtmaster303 said:
Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
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Just a touch of truthful sarcasm......:angel:
Blue6IX said:
.....It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.....
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.....
....Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Blue (and others)
Please don't get disheartened, certainly don't give up on XDA. I am relatively new to Android, certainly new to rooting, and I haven't even tried ROMs yet (that's for next week!). I am still working towards my 10 posts, while I've rooted and S-OFFed using the guidance available here.
In my time, I have researched & read up pretty widely on this forum and on others, on all the things I would like to do or am intrigued to find out about (custom boot animations - wow!). These is so much repeated and conflicting information out there. In doing that you soon get to recognise the posts that explain carefully, give step-by-step guides, and are helpful. You also quickly learn whose name is on those posts .They have a natural authority that lends credibility and builds trust. Those posts are the ones I bookmark and use, and those people are the ones I take advice from.
Your name is all over the best and most useful posts. There are others too but I won't name them here. Please don't stop - your efforts are appreciated. If you stop, I have to stop too, as who do I then learn from?
I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high. My question is: Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities? Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
Ruwin said:
I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high. My question is: Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities? Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
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Click to collapse
I understand that here, on XDA, you get nice and civilized answers if your thanks-meter is high.
Not really true.
Is the XDA strategy built to make users leave XDA for other communities?
There is no XDA strategy. It's just a place for people to tinker with their phones.
Or is it just that the arrogance is directly proportional with the thanks-meter?
No it is not directly proportional to the thanks meter.
There are a lot of grumpy people around though.
I think the best thing you can do is to report arrogance and hope the user gets some sort of warning. I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here. That is a real shame imo.
dc211 said:
There are a lot of grumpy people around though.
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Dmwitz said:
I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here.
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+1 to these, some people who are new just don't understand how the forum layouts and whatnot work, but rather than being more polite about it, the more experienced ones go off at the new people. Pretty hard for the new people to get help that way.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
I only really see "arrogance" displayed in two fashions:
1. The occasional Dev war drama. This really only happens rarely and has settled down quite a bit since some ROM devs have moved on to other devices.
2. Noob squashing. The fact is, Android is a victim of it's own success. In the G1 days, XDA was a true home for hackers to exchange information. Now that Android has such a large worldwide marketshare, more and more folks are coming here to enhance their devices and free them from their cell provider's greed and bad decisions, regardless of their technical level. I'd bet the CM10 thread could be condensed into a one page FAQ which would eliminate hundreds of pages of repeat questions, but in reality, the types of people that frustrate us so much wouldn't even take the time to read that. The only solution here is help or ignore...flaming just triples the number of pages dedicated to a noob mistake.
You get nasty responses when you refuse to read and the question has been asked soo many times.. or you post a question in the general section... or break any rules
I've had people not read the downgrade thread and pm asking what to do.. when if you read it, you realize its nearly noob proof
Sent from my HTC One X-
I think that one of the problems is that the pros try to distance themselves from the noobs. The problem with that is that the noobs will only feel more ignored and try harder to get their voice heard. It's a problem almost all forums have, but it seems more serious here on xda than anywhere else I've been. I think much of the talent here gets wasted. Answers get hidden away deep in overly long topics and poor communication skills make things worse.
I get the feeling that many of the threads here would have worked better in wiki-form, where each issue has its own page, instead of each topic.
But these are just a noob's impression after a few days here.
el_smurfo said:
The only solution here is help or ignore...flaming just triples the number of pages dedicated to a noob mistake.
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^^^ So much this. ^^^
@OP: I don't think what you're seeing is arrogance. More likely frustration. <S>About those damn n00bs who keep pissing all over 'our' forums.</S> But flinging poop at them doesn't result in neater cleaner tidier forums.. The catch22 here is that there is no real way to tell people (noobs and grumps alike) to stop polluting the forums without engaging in forum pollution yourself.
Also, it is not related to the thanks meter. If anything, the 'thanks' feature is meant to keep the forums cleaner, by eliminating "Wow thanks!"-posts.
(Maybe we need buttons for "Wrong section!" and "Use the search!" too. Actually, we do have a button for "Wrong section!", it's labeled "/!\ Report".)
-Jobo
As was previously was stated it frustration over most issues.
If people took a few seconds to try and search or post in correct sections things would be a tiny bit easier. Though since its the internet conflicts or bad attitudes will never subside
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using xda app-developers app
JN3141 said:
+1 to these, some people who are new just don't understand how the forum layouts and whatnot work, but rather than being more polite about it, the more experienced ones go off at the new people. Pretty hard for the new people to get help that way.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
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No reason to be polite, when the answer or rules are stickied or found on the first page. For instance, development forum is only for development, and there's a sticky emphasizing that. Try they post questions there anyway.
So while it's understandable they don't know the layout yet, they can read. If they ask a question, they'll obviously be reading the post in case is has their answer. So they can just as easily read the stickies.
Not to mention, it's always good to take a moment and read stickies or the first page, before asking questions.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
No matter how wrong they are, you still don't need to get rude like I've seen happen. Yes, there are a lot of frustrating situations, but that still doesn't constitute the flaming. If you were new, maybe you might make a mistake like that, and wouldn't want to have people flaming you, it'd just get more confusing for you.
Tapatalked from my HTC One S running CM10
JN3141 said:
No matter how wrong they are, you still don't need to get rude like I've seen happen.
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Exactly. There is no excuse, ever. You either answer and help, or ignore, or report.
Making an unhelpful off-topic post to verbally smack someone in the face is a waaaay worse offense than posting in the wrong section or asking something that's already been asked and answered in the post right above it. It also has much more negative impact on the forums than some stray posts.
I see it as arrogance and frustration. There are many of us that are unseasoned in the knowledge of phones. When we have knowledge in a particular field and become wise, we sometimes become impatient with others for what is simple to us. Very few people knew years ago what they know now. Life is about development, meant to cultivate and refine, and it happens in stages or seasons. To the well-seasoned people, (pros) please try to understand our ignorance or unfamiliarity. When a noobie asks something, try to understand you didnt always know what you know. Show some humility, you can better help us by understanding we are students to the knowledge you have. When you teach, we can learn, and go away more intelligent in that field, then we can help others on a lower level. . Example: The Pros have level 10, some noobies may have level 5. But that level 5 noobie can help a level 3 noobie, easing the burden on the level 10 pro.
On the other hand, many noobies may start asking questions and expect the pro to do allllllll their work, NO GOOD. There is a friend of us all, his name is Google, he has helped me many times. I dont expect for the pros to do all of the work for me, as none of us should. We as noobies do need to spend more time reading and researching, if we fail to understand, then ask the question. Sometimes we all overlook things and it may take a noobie to make a pro recall that thing that was overlooked. As the commercial says, "you can learn alot from a dummy' (noobie). I even see some pros ride the coat tails of other pros and more or less follow their leads. If the first pro is hard on a noobie the second pro adds his two cents. Thats not necessary.
Let us both, pro and noobie, do our part to develop and keep good karma here at XDA. I do like XDA very much and recognize and respect the abundance of talent which is here. It is fascinating for us to learn and share what we know with others and to see we have helped someone. Im interested in learning and if possible over time to share what I learn with others in a humble manner. So if the community will have me, I plan on being here.
One other productive point of dialogue. I have noticed that recently when you create a new thread XDA automatically searches your subject line and shows you threads with similar subject lines. I think that is helpful.
But it all goes to show that maybe the search functions could be reviewed a bit more with newer members input.
I really like XDA btw, but just thinking about ways to make it better. It may be that those kinds of auto search functions should appear when you are posting in a thread, and not just creating a new one.
There may also be ways to make the search functions more intuitive. Sometimes, for example when you search threads (and not just posts) the default screeen sends back a bunch of threads and it becomes hard to judge which thread may actually contain the most relevant info you are looking for (since the subject line may not be helpful). There may be other info the search could show you (ie how many times the word comes up in that particular thread, etc).
I am sure XDA is always looking at ways to make things better. But it would be interesting to hear what new folks have to say and the challanges they face when searching for information.
AKToronto said:
I have noticed that recently when you create a new thread XDA automatically searches your subject line and shows you threads with similar subject lines. I think that is helpful.
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I agree with you AK, It is very helpful and a nice feature. It reduces the amount of clutter. I went looking to start a new thread on the subject titled "Arrogance vs Humility", and boom, the search suggestions showed me a few threads on the subject. It does become time consuming when cleaning up the forums. Most times when we want to know something we want it on the spot and dont take the time to look first. More so than not, the question has already been answered.
Another issue is the xda app does not have an option to filter the search results. It's pretty well useless. Main reason I switched to tapatalk.
One S | Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2 | Viper 1.2.1 | Bricked Beastmode
There's also not a lot of stickies in the Q & A section... I think we might want to start a project with moderators to propose some stickies and have folks volunteer to create and update the original posts in such stickies.
For example an RUU FAQ, and a Wifi faq, perhaps another on different hboot versions what that even means, one on custom recoveries, kernels, etc. I posted what I thought was a more comprehensive review of sd card issues people have had and fixes and asked it be moved to q & a (since the one stickied there is pretty basic and hasn't been updated). My explanation is still getting buried in the general section for now http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=36372149#post36372149... It's not a big deal though.
But I do find that really good OPs (ie original posts) can do a world of good for someone who is new. Stickies and other OPs should be updated frequently especially as people start explaining their issues.
Another good example of a post that should be stickied in Q&A but is lingering in General is http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2076086
Sent from my HTC One S using xda premium
Dmwitz said:
I think the best thing you can do is to report arrogance and hope the user gets some sort of warning. I have also witnessed some comments that were unnecessary and that could really put new users off asking questions here. That is a real shame imo.
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AGREE completely, some people just believe that just because they've been here for what seems forever and (believe) they have put in their time that they can actually treat people like they're complete idiots and that is just WRONG! I have been around for awhile and never that I can remember have ever treated members like this plus each individual may have better understandings of many other devices or aspects of several other types of electronics compared to many, than again some just are not too familiar with this or that type of device possibly because there are as we can agree slight differences in each. Why can we not just treat everyone as people of a large and (sometimes) great community also, just explain things like the way you wanted them explained to you when you first arrived or switched devices and I just received the BEST experience in my thread for the past week from 'Darknites' and another member whom I'm having issues with writing his username lol but he knows who he is. I try to learn from what has been taught to me through trial and error and lots of it but members like above stick in and help even though I know they were getting irritated lol, when I can I help those with similar issues or with issues I possibly know the answer to. PLEASE just help, no need for rude degrading comments to anyone no matter how much they may not be catching on also you can type many things in 'Google' or even in this forum's search but may not get exactly what your looking for especially like me when this is your daily driver device and can't afford or are not into testing many different devices.
Thanks.
TheCrow1372 said:
AGREE completely, some people just believe that just because they've been here for what seems forever and (believe) they have put in their time that they can actually treat people like they're complete idiots and that is just WRONG! I have been around for awhile and never that I can remember have ever treated members like this plus each individual may have better understandings of many other devices or aspects of several other types of electronics compared to many, than again some just are not too familiar with this or that type of device possibly because there are as we can agree slight differences in each. Why can we not just treat everyone as people of a large and (sometimes) great community also, just explain things like the way you wanted them explained to you when you first arrived or switched devices and I just received the BEST experience in my thread for the past week from 'Darknites' and another member whom I'm having issues with writing his username lol but he knows who he is. I try to learn from what has been taught to me through trial and error and lots of it but members like above stick in and help even though I know they were getting irritated lol, when I can I help those with similar issues or with issues I possibly know the answer to. PLEASE just help, no need for rude degrading comments to anyone no matter how much they may not be catching on also you can type many things in 'Google' or even in this forum's search but may not get exactly what your looking for especially like me when this is your daily driver device and can't afford or are not into testing many different devices.
Thanks.
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:laugh: