Related
Chanced across this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5uhnJxmKqU
Shows how BAD the stock rom (even its successors) are. Tablet lagged, wifi failed, browser didn't load and something force closed during its show case.
But the guy said "we are expected to be on gingerbread and honeycomb by mid year." Good news?
They should just hire the developers her on XDA (roebeet, rothnic, pershoot, gojimi) to get even a chance.
Actually, the way viewsonic operates looks more like communism than anything else. We know what they came out with doesn't work. They know what they came out with doesn't work. And yet, they insist on continuing to do the same damn thing over and over. It's like having a 5 year plan on top of a 5 year plan over and over even though millions people are starving. They (viewsonic) insist on continuing with TapnTap UI even though it caused the biggest return rate they ever saw. Communism!
The xda community is like capitalism. This is an open market environment where people who are capable contribute what they have and users are presented with many different choices to choose from. Take OC, for example. We can either use Persh's or we can use Clem's kernel.
We've learned from history that communism simply doesn't work. Why? Because people have no choice. What's given to people to use isn't the best but rather what the originator could present to the premiere. We all know how sucky TapnTap UI is, but the fact of the matter is TapnTap has access to the premiere, aka Viewsonic's board. It doesn't matter if TapnTap suck ass. Just like that submarine called the widow maker. It doesn't matter if people keep dying from radiation exposure and all of that good stuff. The premiere says people have to use it and people use it. That's how communism works.
Not to turn this into a political thread, but we have never witnessed pure Communism.
What we have witnessed in history are Authoritarian governments using the term Communism or Socialism and even Democracy, as a way to deceive the people into supporting them, until the people realize too late; that they have given away their freedoms.
Many countries claim to be democracies, except they rig the ballot box and 'disappear' people who oppose them. Communism, Socialism, Democracies; the labels don't matter, the results do.
Does Apple or Microsoft allow end users the ability to easily 'root' their devices or even offer their code to the community, like ViewSonic has? If not, are they communist-like?
ViewSonic has created a truly bad UI. That's because they're not in the UI business and unfortunately have made several bad choices. Do you really believe they wanted to take back all those devices and receive the bad press? They have paid for those choices in market-share and reputation, just as the free market demands.
Further, they have responded to recent user demands and have in the past released their code, which allows the 'capitalism' on XDA you cheer about. Without code, you can have no choice. Without Nvidia releasing their drivers, Gingerbread will be doomed not to have hardware acceleration. If they don't release their code, is Nvidia communist-like?
A truly Authoritarian company would not have responded to the emails, tweets and phone calls of average users and they certainly wouldn't have offered any code or tried to deal with the users on this forum.
Try getting that response from Apple or Microsoft.
What you are witnessing in ViewSonic is not some take on Communism, but the typical results of a business that merely 'rebrands' merchandise with no real understanding of what the device does and more importantly what it should do.
It's no different than a company sending a job lot of talking Barbies to South America and not bothering to check if the dolls spoke English or Spanish. Bad research? Yes, but if I have razor thin profit margins, do I really invest more money into the hole I am already in or do I just fill it in and start digging somewhere else?
I guarantee you, someone looked at the numbers involved in this mess and decided to band-aid just enough to shut the community up, while positioning the community to help them push their next product.
You have to remember that for the average user and there are many on the board who have said so, the latest TNT UI, is 'good enough' and that's all ViewSonic needs to produce... Good enough.
jholmes5 said:
Not to turn this into a political thread, but we have never witnessed pure Communism.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree. I was using the word communism to avoid this very thing... a political debate. That said, I was comparing one specific aspect of these communist/authoritarian/goo-gaga/hoogabooga (call it whatever you want) to what we're seeing in VS in regard to the gtab.
Everyone, including VS, knows that TapnTap UI simply is sluggish and doesn't do the gtab's hardware justice. And yet, VS continues to use the TapnTap UI.
It's like the 5 year plan on top of the 5 year plan that starved millions of people. Everyone knew that those plans never worked, and yet those communist/authoritarian/goo-gaga/hoogabooga (call it whatever you want) kept using those plans. Sure, they eventually improved upon those plans to a "good enough" state.
Does Apple or Microsoft allow end users the ability to easily 'root' their devices or even offer their code to the community, like ViewSonic has? If not, are they communist-like?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, but you're forgetting something. By law, VS had to release the source code under the GNU license. There have been companies completely liquidated because they broke this law.
ViewSonic has created a truly bad UI. That's because they're not in the UI business and unfortunately have made several bad choices. Do you really believe they wanted to take back all those devices and receive the bad press? They have paid for those choices in market-share and reputation, just as the free market demands.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And again, I was comparing this one aspect of the whole gtab return rate fiasco to those communist/authoritarian/goo-gaga/hoogabooga (call it whatever you want) regimes. Do you think those regimes wanted to see millions of their people starve to death? And yet there they were kept making the same mistakes over and over. We're seeing the same damn thing with VS. They don't want to see those high return rates, and yet here we are with VS continuing to use TapnTap UI.
Further, they have responded to recent user demands and have in the past released their code, which allows the 'capitalism' on XDA you cheer about. Without code, you can have no choice. Without Nvidia releasing their drivers, Gingerbread will be doomed not to have hardware acceleration. If they don't release their code, is Nvidia communist-like?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've a different comparison to this one particular thing as well. The gtab to VS seems to be that one child that the parent wanted to become a doctor but then he ended up being an engineer so the parent is ashamed and doesn't want to mention him at gatherings. When it comes to it, the parent proclaims that he hasn't disowned his son. That said, he isn't fond of his son either.
The gtab is very popular because of the hardware. And yet VS continues to shy away from the device. They only mention it once or twice when they are pressured to do so by the community.
A truly Authoritarian company would not have responded to the emails, tweets and phone calls of average users and they certainly wouldn't have offered any code or tried to deal with the users on this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, please, a truly anything wouldn't do a lot of things. A truly android tablet would have market right out of the box. A truly dog wouldn't eat vegatable (my dog last year went through and ate all my veg in the garden). A truly cat wouldn't come when you call it (my friend's cat comes when you call her). What's your point?
Try getting that response from Apple or Microsoft.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said those companies don't resemble communist/authoritarian/goo-gaga/hoogabooga (call it whatever you want) in certain areas. Take windows vista, for example. To this day after update after update and service pack, it's still a piece of crap.
What you are witnessing in ViewSonic is not some take on Communism, but the typical results of a business that merely 'rebrands' merchandise with no real understanding of what the device does and more importantly what it should do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, what I'm witnessing is you not seeing my point in comparing just one aspect of the matter and instead nitpick other things. For example, suppose I say "Like you, I need to use the bathroom on a daily basis." Imagine how annoyed I'd be if you respond with "But you're not like me because I was born here and you weren't." Sure, I can't dispute that, but that's not what I was talking about.
Ok guys.... let's get back to the topic of the OP or else we'll close this thread
I was quite happy with my stock G tablet until this latest update. Back to being sluggish at least on web surfing.
If this was Apple they would try to shame you for believing anything is even wrong.
Woah haha...we've digressed quite a bit eh. Anyway, i think Viewsonic or the OEM just contracted TapnTap to do this for the g tab. Can't really blame VS for everything -> if the startup was a little more capable, everything would be fine.
amusedkid said:
Woah haha...we've digressed quite a bit eh. Anyway, i think Viewsonic or the OEM just contracted TapnTap to do this for the g tab. Can't really blame VS for everything -> if the startup was a little more capable, everything would be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why can't we blame them for everything? They were the one who decided to put that terrible TapnTap UI. And even after that initial mass returns because of the sluggish UI performance, all they did to try to fix it was change all the later ones to classic view.
In engineering, we call this the no-common-sense engineer. Do something, see that it doesn't work, try to do it again and again and again.
Go ahead then.changes nothing though.
Sent from my GTablet-TnT-Lite using Tapatalk
amusedkid said:
Go ahead then.changes nothing though.
Sent from my GTablet-TnT-Lite using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it changes nothing. VS doesn't seem to feel bad about keep putting the TapnTap UI on there, so it doesn't matter what we think.
goodintentions said:
I know it changes nothing. VS doesn't seem to feel bad about keep putting the TapnTap UI on there, so it doesn't matter what we think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are plenty of tablets out there without the TapnTap, why do you stick with it?
As far I'm concern, that TapnTap makes the ViewSonic WAF capable tablet. I have mine on the Fidge and she can't live without it now. This is a great software, not perfect yet but lot more user friendly than the majority at this price tag. If we have a tablet today, it's because of TapnTap, that about it.
I feel you will be better served with an Android no name tablet that you can dismantle and hack the way you want.
Again, this tablet is not for you.
Charles
cjean said:
There are plenty of tablets out there without the TapnTap, why do you stick with it?
As far I'm concern, that TapnTap makes the ViewSonic WAF capable tablet. I have mine on the Fidge and she can't live without it now. This is a great software, not perfect yet but lot more user friendly than the majority at this price tag. If we have a tablet today, it's because of TapnTap, that about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And yet the high return rates because of TapnTap tells us otherwise. In this case, TapnTap decided to sacrifice speed and efficiency for the sake of user friendliness.
goodintentions said:
And yet the high return rates because of TapnTap tells us otherwise. In this case, TapnTap decided to sacrifice speed and efficiency for the sake of user friendliness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like the "Evolution" of Windows....
You wonder why I post this, I get it. Personal experience warrants that I tell you about this Verizon tab.
Locked bootloader
No netflix
No skype for front camera
And this is my basis to start this frustration rant. Either Samsung or the android os in general is not popular enough to push these technologies to be developed for the latest and greatest droid device and honeycomb.
Please understand I love droid and am anti ipad/apple. But the fact is I bought an ipad2 last night and I am doing all the things I can't on the Samsung.
Don't tell me to sideload anything. It simply does not work on the Verizon model. I want to root but no support has been lended to me and many others on this and many other droid sites. Including the Samsung forum site.
If there appears to be a way to root, then no one has a reversing flash for it.
In general, new technology or not, the apps should be there. When paying the equivalent price of an ipad the android tab should blow the freaking doors off apple. I've got em both right here and the ipad2 just kicked the bajesus out of this 10.1
Proprietary skiz and all for nothing more than me being able to log in get apps and have them work without bootlegging, voiding warranties and sideload this and that.
now before you go calling me a troll or a hater...
I have a
Dx2 and so does my wife
I hada first gen droid and ran chevy ss
Xoom
Samsung galxy 10.1
And now because droid is not "mainstream" enough a damn apple ipad2 in my house. What the hello, droid os is now officially pissing me off. I know that it is not the os fault but, really I disagree. If droid was selling tabs at half the rate of apples ipad then this freaking rant would never have been written and my azz would never considered looking at a freaking lemming apple ipad anything.
Maybe somebody here knows somebody that will forward this along because this kind lf crap right here. Droid developers not taking availability of apps seriously is what killed IBM in the 80's by thinking home pcs in every house was a farce.
droid development needs to lobby payoff incentavize whatever the hello they need to do to get service providers to write for droid if they want to command a price equal or greater than apple.
please do whatever you do agree or disagree but do not attack me personally or belittle my intelligence. I am neither a kid or dummy. I like technology but I do not like beating my head against the wall trying hours in vain to get something to work just to find out it won't.
I could go on but Why?
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
It doesn't have locked bootloader... does it
Sent from my SCH-I500 using xda premium
to the OP.....you do understand the difference between "Droid" and Android, right? "Droid" is just Verizon's marketing campaign for SPECIFIC android devices (Motorola Droid, HTC Droid Incredible, Samsung Droid Charge). MOD EDIT: REMOVED OFFENSIVE WORDS. you purchased a carrier specific tablet, not a WiFi model. therefore, development for said device will only move forward considering more people decide to buy it. theres plenty of development for the WiFi version of the GT10.1.
as for locked bootloaders.......actually, Samsung doesn't ever lock bootloaders, from what i understand. HTC has been known to, and Motorola is notorious at it. Samsung and i believe LG have the easiest exploits when it comes to rooting.
BTW, the Honeycomb source code hasn't been released for any device, probably not until ICS drops.
thachosenone said:
to the OP.....you do understand the difference between "Droid" and Android, right? "Droid" is just Verizon's marketing campaign for SPECIFIC android devices (Motorola Droid, HTC Droid Incredible, Samsung Droid Charge). so to say "droid development" just makes you sound ignorant. you purchased a carrier specific tablet, not a WiFi model. therefore, development for said device will only move forward considering more people decide to buy it. theres plenty of development for the WiFi version of the GT10.1.
as for locked bootloaders.......actually, Samsung doesn't ever lock bootloaders, from what i understand. HTC has been known to, and Motorola is notorious at it. Samsung and i believe LG have the easiest exploits when it comes to rooting.
BTW, the Honeycomb source code hasn't been released for any device, probably not until ICS drops.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Are you serious? Droid, Android,,,,, again Really? Yes I do understand that a droid is a phone and android is an operating system. Did you not see the reference to honeycomb etc..? Forgive me I don't mean to be disrespectful......this is just not the kind of response I'm looking for.
I'm sorry if my abbreviations confused you.
For locked bootloader again not an idiot the bootloader is locked. is that really a surprise dealing with big red. Samsung is doing what they are told I guess. Not only is the bootloader locked don't flash this puppy with odin or you will be unable to wipe or return to virgin setup.
PERIOD! at least with the current means and methods on the net.
Samsung wifi models some were shipped with unlocked bootloaders but not Verizon models. Again! I am only referencing the 4g model so any other make model manufacturer is completely irrelevant.
I have had 3 of these in my hands they are all on lockdown. They also are telling people 4g must be activated to get owner registration......the first one I returned doa to the selling dealer but big red corporate would not exchange it because I didn't HVE 4g turned on so in their system I didn't even show owning the product.
I could go on and on.
point is everything in the original post in 100% true and accurate and knowledge from my personal hands on experience.
I am hoping that someone takes it personally and gets some interest in mastering this device. I pretty much root all my devices but after bringing my first one Bck to lofe 4 times and never getting superuser I am in a holding position until full accurate knowledgable instructions on how to unlock bootloader, backup, root, unroot. I am waiting.
Truth again, the post was not about rooting but the fact that the android development team had better start using some power in their speech to people like skype, netflix, and any other major player on behalf of us the people that buy android devices or we are and are gonna continue to be pissed if they don't get it and that means we will buy other peoples stuff ya know,,,the whole supply demand free market concept?...
Especially when I go pay the same price for an ipad2 and all the skizz I want is a click away for free and with no effort or time wasted in a forum on why my stuff doesnt offer main stream popular sh#%!
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
thachosenone said:
to the OP.....you do understand the difference between "Droid" and Android, right? "Droid" is just Verizon's marketing campaign for SPECIFIC android devices (Motorola Droid, HTC Droid Incredible, Samsung Droid Charge). . you purchased a carrier specific tablet, not a WiFi model. therefore, development for said device will only move forward considering more people decide to buy it. theres plenty of development for the WiFi version of the GT10.1.
as for locked bootloaders.......actually, Samsung doesn't ever lock bootloaders, from what i understand. HTC has been known to, and Motorola is notorious at it. Samsung and i believe LG have the easiest exploits when it comes to rooting.
BTW, the Honeycomb source code hasn't been released for any device, probably not until ICS drops.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One last thing. To pick up on one keyword "droid development" while overlooking the entire context of the post after in that same post disclaiming that I did not want anyone to attack or belittle me and you then state that I appear IGNORANT? Well maybe it will to some, but, what you just did makes you appear far worse. Imho...
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
marksnet said:
You wonder why I post this, I get it. Personal experience warrants that I tell you about this Verizon tab.
Locked bootloader
No netflix
No skype for front camera
And this is my basis to start this frustration rant. Either Samsung or the android os in general is not popular enough to push these technologies to be developed for the latest and greatest *droid* device and honeycomb.
Please understand I love *droid* and am anti ipad/apple. But the fact is I bought an ipad2 last night and I am doing all the things I can't on the Samsung.
Don't tell me to sideload anything. It simply does not work on the Verizon model. I want to root but no support has been lended to me and many others on this and many other *droid* sites. Including the Samsung forum site.
If there appears to be a way to root, then no one has a reversing flash for it.
In general, new technology or not, the apps should be there. When paying the equivalent price of an ipad the android tab should blow the freaking doors off apple. I've got em both right here and the ipad2 just kicked the bajesus out of this 10.1
Proprietary skiz and all for nothing more than me being able to log in get apps and have them work without bootlegging, voiding warranties and sideload this and that.
now before you go calling me a troll or a hater...
I have a
Dx2 and so does my wife
I hada first gen *droid* and ran chevy ss
Xoom
Samsung galxy 10.1
And now because *droid* is not "mainstream" enough a damn apple ipad2 in my house. What the hello, *droid* os is now officially pissing me off. I know that it is not the os fault but, really I disagree. If *droid* was selling tabs at half the rate of apples ipad then this freaking rant would never have been written and my azz would never considered looking at a freaking lemming apple ipad anything.
Maybe somebody here knows somebody that will forward this along because this kind lf crap right here. *Droid* developers not taking availability of apps seriously is what killed IBM in the 80's by thinking home pcs in every house was a farce.
*droid* development needs to lobby payoff incentavize whatever the hello they need to do to get service providers to write for *droid* if they want to command a price equal or greater than apple.
please do whatever you do agree or disagree but do not attack me personally or belittle my intelligence. I am neither a kid or dummy. I like technology but I do not like beating my head against the wall trying hours in vain to get something to work just to find out it won't.
I could go on but Why?
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
look above....i didnt just pick out ONE time you used "droid" to describe something that runs android. so yeah....you sound REALLY ignorant. You literally used "Droid" 10 times
and regarding bootloaders:
http://rootzwiki.com/showthread.php?2511-ROOT-RECOVERY-Galaxy-Tab-10.1-LTE&
all i had to do was google "galaxy tab 10.1 LTE Recovery"....do you know how to google something??
so yeah.......
I'm surprised that you have been allowed to start a thread which expresses your own personal opinion. I've had a thread removed to the Off-Topic Forum because I did that.
Gaugerer said:
I'm surprised that you have been allowed to start a thread which expresses your own personal opinion. I've had a thread removed to the Off-Topic Forum because I did that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They may yet censor me but, the title says opinion the body of the post is all fact. We shall see.
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
thachosenone said:
look above....i didnt just pick out ONE time you used "droid" to describe something that runs android. so yeah....you sound REALLY ignorant. You literally used "Droid" 10 times
and regarding bootloaders:
http://rootzwiki.com/showthread.php?2511-ROOT-RECOVERY-Galaxy-Tab-10.1-LTE&
all i had to do was google "galaxy tab 10.1 LTE Recovery"....do you know how to google something??
so yeah.....
I've seen the post and it works but it doesn't return the device back to stock. also again you fail to see where rooting was not the point of the above post. It was one point out of many.
So I was in a hurry and didn't put an in front of droid each time. I did however say
Droid device
Droid os
Etc..
To a common sense individual they got it.
To someone interested in ignoring the subject, offering no solution, as I am guessing you are not a developer, and being negative you Win!
I'm ignorant yea you win now please go away.
So glad we got that straight.
Bye bye now.
Mark
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if you have a custom recovery, couldn't you just make a cwm backup when you first get it? Then that would return it to stock when you restore that backup.
They don't drop source code for honeycomb. That's just how they do it.
you further perpetuate the misconception that "Droids" are anything with Android on it. It's bad enough when people who know nothing of rooting and such call it "Droid". But you're on xda.
And I've contributed to the community a lot more then you have man. You've only offered this rant.
And every post, on here, I've still offered some sort of answer or advice.
Don't be one if those people that come on here to demand people to develop for the device you bought. Be happy with what is offered and have patience. All you accomplished on your OP is sounding like a jackass with buyers remorse.
And GTFO with your iPad.
For some reason no you cannot flash cwm. Theres a ton of people posting on this and why it sends the tab into a bootloop. There are also multiple post on this forum and others where people are asking for the stock image due to this.
There is also a post where rooting instructions are clear and precise. One problem. The links are broken and no longer valid.
I do not further perpetuate anything. You may perceive it that way because you have the inability to look at a forest instead of a frikken tree.
I have stated enough times that I do understand that Android is an O.s. and that "droid" is a phone device produced by motorola, although I never mentioned moto.
Geez.. Also I stated in my OP that I bought the ipad2 for comparison. I do not want the ipad2 as I have invested way too much in market apps and gmail to start the wallet all over with apple apps. However, now that I have an ipad2, I dont hate it. It's a good machine. If that makes me bad then ok, whatever.
My first post was done largely abbreviated and maybe i didnt convey my points or angle well enough. I'll concede that but, I was typing on my samsung tablet and was just trying to get some action on the topic. The last thing I wanted was for someone to make it their mission to point out what was wrong line by line but, hey whatever.
Simply put just in case my original post was written ineffectively on my tablet. I am on my desktop now and the keyboard is much more effective than trying to type a letter on the tablet, let me reexplain my op.
Simply put,
I prefer the Android O.s.
I like the samsung tablet.
The memory, processor, flash, a million things I see potential in.
However, when I analyze something I also analyze as if or from a consumer standpoint and maybe not so much a dev. standpoint.
By this alone I think that the people/powers that be need to wake up and push the big boys like skype, netflix, etc... to make apps that will be compatible with the latest and greatest release of not only the O.s. but the hardware devices that come from HTC, Moto, Samsung, lg, etc....
In order to get mass appeal from consumers ****e is gonna have to work or people will opt for what does work.
Right now the samsung 10.1 wifi's only work netflix on some platforms not all.
Right now the samsung 10.1 wifis and lte models will not do skype with the front cam.. so no video on either side.
ALSO TRUE FOR XOOM
These are just 2 apps but, they are "THE" two apps that alot of people converting to tabs are wanting.
Contrary to popular belief most people buy tabs to eff off with. They are not hot like a laptop, they surf relatively well, but everyday consumers want to skype, netflix, check email, all of it.
They do not want to be in front of a desktop with their tablet hooked up via usb hacking and sacking the images, custom roms, etc... That is a few of which I am one of but, even I grow tired and frustrated when I brick ****e and screw it up but, really, just to get netflix loaded. No way man, I want to click and install enter my username and watch my son watch his movies.
Yeah its fun getting them working again but, with this thing.......It's all for nothing. I still dont have the full potential of this device because it simply will not do it.
Apple ipad2 does both of these out of the box with no trickery. Just search and download.
That may not be a problem for you as a senior member and expert at going thru the work of sideloading apps etc...... but, for mom at the grocery store. She's gonna pick what works with the click of a button.
Android devices and The Android O.s. developers are going to have to be compelled to make the ****e work on their devices if they want to take the sales to the next level. This is not my opinion at all. This is just fact. You can have a great hardware device and a sporty o.s. but, if there is no software available for it, or apps in this case then you have nothing and you certainly dont have buyers for it.
Ipad sales compared to android type tab devices are not even in the same universe. Ipad sales are smashing Android based tabs. Not because they have been out longer either.
Why is that? Well people are sheep for one! I get it but, how does Android smash Apple? Well they do it by #1 advertising, #2 being better (measurably), (which I believe they already are) , but they also have to, have to, have to, offer at least what the ipad will do and more.
Come on man, I'm not asking for the world here.
To be better when you are the underdog you have to be twice as good. NOt from a hardware standpoint but, from all of it. Cosmetics, function, hardware,cost,more apps, better graphics. etc...
Android has done most of this but, not all of it. The apps lacking in the market have got to catch up immediately or people will continue doing what they have been doing. Buying ipads
Again, this is what the post was about. You just think that Android and hardware is good now. Get them (the Android stiffs) the revenue stream that Apple has and then we will "really" see some cool stuff.
this may be the one negative about open source. If the people making the apps and the people making the devices, and the people making the upgrades to the O.s. are not all working together then Android will not be "THE" player, they will just be "A" player in the sea of other players.
I am also not demanding anyone develop for my specific tablet. I really dont care if they do or not. But, if that is the attitude of a tablet that is supposed to be "THE" tablet for the Android flagship right now, that's a bad attitude or stance for them to take when basic apps are not even offered or if they do they will not work. Not exactly how your gonna get susie away from the apple store. Again, this is simply about marketing, and retail appeal.
Develop, dont develop, the market wins only players lose.
On a personal note.
By the way, I have not one time condemned or attacked you. You have insisted on calling me names and being sarcastic to me each time you post. Please let me say that it was not my intent to offend you. This post was not about you or the fact that you help people or dont help people on this site.
I would like you to stop calling me ignorant and telling me to GTFO and such about an ipad, after I said that I was pro android.
I will say one thing about the comparison of the 2.
Apple kicks the samsung on two major things:
Keyboard does not lag on apple. I am always backspacing corrections on the samsung.
Apple has apps, our android market does not.
Now I'll compare the Xoom and The Samsung 10.1
I like the xoom better. At least netflix works on it.
However, skype does not so Apple still wins in flexibility of apps.
I like the hardware and acceleration of the samsung 10.1 over all of them.
I am not sure what gives on the keyboard lag? Sucks.
This is exactly why I placed in my original post that I was not hating on Android and I did not want personal attacks.
I am asking you to please stop. I am not interested in name calling.
Continue if you must but, I will not engage in calling you names.
At all
Please keep discussion on topic and do not use offensive words
..........
Sent from my DROID3 using XDA App
Its Android not Droid dammit!
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using xda premium
Well put Android os is really getting old with exclusive apps for certain devices or with verizon with there own app store. Don't they know they would make more Money releasing to everyone duh. If a old ass iphone 4g can play high end games why not my duel core sensation ? Or in your case the tablet.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Well put Android os is really getting old with exclusive apps for certain devices or with verizon with there own app store. Don't they know they would make more Money releasing to everyone duh. If a old ass iphone 4g can play high end games why not my duel core sensation ? Or in your case the tablet.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally someone that looks past jargon and looks at subject matter!!!!! Another common sense human on here! What strange feeling this is,,,,
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
Man... Everything in here by the OP is nonsensical and tough to read.
z33dev33l said:
Man... Everything in here by the OP is nonsensical and tough to read.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Update!
Netflix is not in the market but there is an apk for it now and it works!
Skype folks say they are working on a solutionno time commitment though.
Clockwork and roms still limited but will come in time hopefully.
Sent from my SCH-I905 using Tapatalk
marksnet said:
You wonder why I post this, I get it. Personal experience warrants that I tell you about this Verizon tab.
Locked bootloader
No netflix
No skype for front camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In reply to all three: BULL****! I have had a Verizon Galaxy Tab 10.1 for many months and:
1. The bootloader is not and was not ever locked
2. Netflix patch was trivial to install (and it runs great)
3. Skype does support the front camera (as of its most recent release a couple months ago)
Other than that, rooting the device was just as simple as installing Netflix.
I've recently acquired a HTC One X, and having had a desire which was rooted from the first moment, and also s-off some time later thanks to revolutionary, I imagined development would be just as simple.
While there is (and was even before production devices were available) a root method for the One-X it requires unlocking a bootloader. A bootloader which then leaves a (so far) indelible electronic mark as to it's having been opened.
HTC promised to unlock bootloaders, yet what they've done is created a contract between a rooter and themselves, whereby the process voids your warranty.
Root access to your phone voids your warranty.
There are many threads on this already so I'm not looking to discuss it here, what does intrigue is that a whole bunch of other manufacturers have essentially gone the same route.
Asus have an encrypted system, Barnes and Noble tablet required a hardware hack to enter a recovery (APX) mode and Motorola have also announced the coming availability of a development device where you trade your warranty for administrative access to a device you own.
I'm typing this post from a Toshiba laptop, whose bios I have never tampered with, but with a W7 install, and VM installs of Windows XP, Ubuntu, Centos x64 and various other OS's.
If I desired I could install any of these OS's and expect to have availability for the drivers for the device, allowing me to perform whatever functions I choose. It's analogy that has been drawn time and again, but none of these actions would void my warranty.
It appears that "open source" is being more loosely applied and undermined.
I don't want to tamper with HTC's "Sense" interface, I don't want to overclock my Asus Transformer.
For years Microsoft bundled Internet Explorer with Windows, eventually falling foul of anti-trust law in the US and competition laws in the EU. Phones should be subject to to the same initiatives.
It appears all the manufacturers are going the same route, following the same trend of locked and encrypted bootloaders.
There's more than one launcher, just as there's more than one web browser. If I wish to stop Touchwiz from running and install a different interface from the market, I should not have to take risks with the health of my device in order to perform a simple administrative function.
Each of us have almost certainly been asked by our peers what phone they should buy. We influence the market because we understand the technical sides of the devices a little more than the average man in the street. I'm losing patience with certain manufacturers and I'll not be recommending their devices to anyone again.
It's essential for the health and long term success of the Android OS that manufacturers cease penalising the development community. It's a feedback loop where we add value to their devices, even if it's simply by recommending them.
We're being cut out of the loop, as the Android devices become more locked down and the users more locked out the entire Android idea starts to eat itself.
+1 couldn't say it better
Agree with your post.
To me it seems like a cheap trick to rip us of the warranty fast & easy.
On the other hand unlocking a bootloader also means changing the kernel most likely. By changing the kernel many people oc their cpus to extreme levels.
Why shall the company take responsibility for those damages?
Rooting on the other hand should not void the warranty in my opinion.
There are easier ways to stop overclocking or at least limit the effects of overclocking.
It's something the phone providers trot out but there is no basis to the argument.
I agree with you
Agree wid ur post
Sent from my MB865 using xda premium
+1 totally agree
While I agree to this, almost anyone who roots is going to use a custom ROM. By rooting, you're telling them that it's fine, you do not need their warranty. You will rely on outside, free help if something goes wrong, because let's face it, they aren't building these things for us to root them.
Generally PCs are far less brickable, too. PCs are more modular in nature. There is not a single phone or tablet, of any brand, that is at all modular.
And anyway, from what I've read of many warranties for a PC, adding new hardware voids the warranty as well. Or at least disables it for the duration you use that new hardware inside of it.
Just think of it that way. A bricked PC is so much easier to fix than a bricked phone or tablet. In this way, if something does go wrong by something they aren't letting you do willynilly, or letting the general, far-less-techy normal end user, they're covering their own ass.
It'd be nice if they didn't hide that though.
We laugh at iPhone users that Apple limit what they can do with their devices
I think the gap between us get narrower each day.
Another terrible reply.
Phones are difficult to recover because they are made that way.
I've crashed and messed up a laptop install, but I was able to reach for a linux cd (or windows), re-install the software on to the drive (because the system partition wasn't totally locked down) and then install the drivers required because they were made available.
Your analogy is simply regurgitating the argument of companies like HTC and Asus who are prepared to sell you the hardware, just so long as you don't want to do anything with it other than what they prescribe.
The warranty debate is not for here, simply their decisions to lock down YOUR hardware will kill development.
At some point Google will have to step in and do something about the situation. Start taking control of what has the potential to be a wonderful product.
abo.saud said:
We laugh at iPhone users that Apple limit what they can do with their devices
I think the gap between us get narrower each day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TWO BIG thumbs up for abo, LOL
Yeap, when all Android devices got locked up, Android fanboys will cry out loud.
Being using so-called open-source but they (manuf.) hancuff dev. and push us into the corner day by day.
f4flake said:
For years Microsoft bundled Internet Explorer with Windows, eventually falling foul of anti-trust law in the US and competition laws in the EU. Phones should be subject to to the same initiatives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I'm kind of surprised nobody has thrown a fit about how smartphones are locked down even more. Microsoft got sued for bundling IE and not allowing you to uninstall it since it was integrated with the OS. You could still install a 3rd party browser and set it as default, and you could still install another OS if you wanted to.
Today we have Android phone OEMs that bundle bloatware which cannot be uninstalled without voiding your warranty and rooting. Bootloaders are locked and now batteries are non-removable. Its all a way to make your phone obsolete quicker so you have to replace it sooner.
I agree with you about the bootloaders and such I am using a one x from AT&T and if I had known about s-off and bootlodaer locks I woulda went with another Samsung device I'm coming from the best dev phone there is so far the captivate completely unbrickable proof that devices can be made modular and completly open source we buy.these phones we.should be able to do with them as.we.please.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app
Before jb update i sent an email to Asus asking a few questions. They promise a reply within 48 hrs. 10 days latter i got a response which is actually faster than the last time. They did not answer my questions, they did however inform me i was unlocked. They did directed me to some info which i didn't bother with.
I was not unlocked at the time email, and the only reason i unlocked was all the problems i was having with jb update. I was only able to update and remain rooted through the help of the many good people on xda.
I don't tell these people thank you enough. Big shout out to the people of xda.
If you don't want Asus to know you have to keep modem off until you remove the programs that send info to Asus. Please post names i forgot them.
I tried to, but info got out anyway.
Woody
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Kind of scary...
You can't unlock while not connected to the internet. The software checks in with their servers to do the unlock, so of course they know.
woodsonmh said:
Before jb update i sent an email to Asus asking a few questions. They promise a reply within 48 hrs. 10 days latter i got a response which is actually faster than the last time. They did not answer my questions, they did however inform me i was unlocked. They did directed me to some info which i didn't bother with.
I was not unlocked at the time email, and the only reason i unlocked was all the problems i was having with jb update. I was only able to update and remain rooted through the help of the many good people on xda.
I don't tell these people thank you enough. Big shout out to the people of xda.
If you don't want Asus to know you have to keep modem off until you remove the programs that send info to Asus. Please post names i forgot them.
I tried to, but info got out anyway.
Woody
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As was said above the unlock tool HAS to verify with ASUS before unlocking your device. It sends ASUS a copy of your tabs S/N so that ASUS knows to no longer offer warranty services. What happened was they didn't get to your email until after the unlock, and when they pulled up the S/N on your email it flagged as unlocked device. I have not heard of anyone unlocking and ASUS not knowing.
Isn't this akin to contacting Apple support with a jailbroken iPad.
Eh, I'm okay with burning my warranty because of unlocking. It says multiple times, and in big letters, that you'll no longer be covered under their manufacturers warranty if you choose to unlock it. This really makes sense from a business standpoint, because there is a lot you can do to this tablet once it's unlocked, and a good chance of bricking. They don't want to devote the time or the money to support everything that can go wrong when you start flashing 3rd party roms, so they cut it out entirely.
Does it suck? Sure. Unlocking voids warranties on every phone though, just many manufacturers don't notice or take it in to account. Also, there have been accounts of people still getting service on their device even when it has been unlocked.
I like to think of it like this: I buy a car that has a highly customizable computer (timing, fuel mix, etc). This is fine, but I want more acute control of the settings, so I buy a mod chip to stick on there to gain low level access to settings that weren't necessarily designed to be modified outside their norms, even though the engine can take the modifications. In the process of tweaking the timing, I totally burn out the engine. Should I expect the manufacturer to fix my car now, since I just bought it? No, it was my fault it broke.
I realize that this is an analogy that falls short in many places. Android is, of course, FOSS, but it is designed to run on embedded systems. More and more these tablets and phones are given hardware more akin to an actual computer, so maybe the mindset of manufacturers should shift away from an embedded system and more to computers, but we're not there yet.
I haven't had a situation where I had to send in one of my unlocked Android devices for a software bricking, but I imagine most manufacturers will send it right back if they see that I unlocked it. Essentially Asus is cutting out that step by recording the serial number upon unlock. It's pretty big-brotherish, but they're not actively monitoring the information on our device. There was/is a big controversy over DMClient having access to all our information, but you can see exactly what information it is by going to devicetracker.asus.com (Note: Don't create an account if you don't want your information reported).
I'm sorry this has gotten a bit TL/DR. None of us like the idea of being punished for doing something we think should be a given Android right. It's important to keep in mind though that we're buying an Asus device running Android, not a Nexus device (regardless of the manufacturer). Asus reserves the right to provide any warranty they please, they're selling us this device after all. If you don't like their methods, they're well documented by now, maybe you should look in to another device. Asus doesn't care about you, or your information, they care about the products they're making and selling, and they'll support that product in any way they see fit. This isn't apologetic, this is just how it is.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using XDA Premium HD app
I was a little surprised this came up so fast. i could understand checking on a return but an email. Another thing they had to do is cross reference my email. I gave them no tablet info. I am registered. Ill use a different email next time.
I understood the risks when i did it and had pretty much decided root was enough. If i hadnt had such a hassle upgrading who knows. Now im glad i did. Having a great time with clean rom.
Woody
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
the_game_master said:
Isn't this akin to contacting Apple support with a jailbroken iPad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems more like contacting apple and because its been 10 days you jailbreak it and then they respond 'duh! your jailbroken!'
sent from LG optimus s (republic wireless) on tapatalk
Android is supposed to be open, customizable and free, vs iOS. That's why I'm making the switch (plus I couldn't stand the screen size of iPhone).
But now I realize Samsung is behaving like Apple:
- Knox highly discourages (prevents) rooting, just like Apple tries to prevent jailbreaks
- Firmware can't be downgraded, just like on iOS too
Part 1 is still acceptable under the pretext of corporate security, especially since end users generally have no issues getting warranty even with Knox tripped.
But part 2 is simply inconceivable IMO. No downgrading is just ridiculous. It's way worse than part 1 because at least users can choose to void warranty and ignore Knox, but part 2 is maintaining an iron control.
That is the really stupid bit. I have been upgrading, downgrading when I wanted to since the galaxy s days and now this not being able to downgrade really ppppppeeee me off. Didn't care about Knox and tripped it.... But...?... Let's set what's out there come September when my contract runs out
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
When I read threads on how which firmware versions are rootable (without tripping knox) and which aren't, they remind me of apple blogs posting about which iOS versions are jailbreak safe.
Can't believe I'm still gonna buy a note 3!
fterh said:
When I read threads on how which firmware versions are rootable (without tripping knox) and which aren't, they remind me of apple blogs posting about which iOS versions are jailbreak safe.
Can't believe I'm still gonna buy a note 3!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get it. The hardware is still a good value, but I'll probably look elsewhere in the future.
These companies get too big and start to dictate what the user wants instead of listening... And when they are sitting pretty on top they tend to stop developing new innovations because "They are the best" and then the item tends to stagnate with VERY little actual developement thrown in. Anything new is a kneejerk reaction to the next up and comer for king of the heap....
They will still say it is for the best of the user but in reality its because they're too damn lazy to work. Then comes the copyright everything attitudeand the litigation and more effort is spent suing others for copyright einfingement than making the latest and greatest, what was Apple"s big thing a while back, oh yeah, lets make it white....
Works well for them and most users who have a hard time working out which end to speak in but not for those who actually want to own, use and control what their device actually does....
Take a lil bit, bit by bit til theres nothing less
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
It's not just Samsung others are going the same route, LG for instance says it got something similar to KNOX in the pipeline, HTC makes it difficult as possible to root their phones, Sony is also going to follow a similar path to Samsung & LG as they all want the corp market to buy their smartphones and feel safe, sod the general consumer that not interested in any of this.
The option in the near future if you want to tinker without tripping something or blowing an efuse is to buy a Nexus.
Its also because of the data breach that chinese and NSA are doing. They want our phones and its data to be safe. Not like modified system files with backdoors and trojans. So its for our own safety. Yes u can always change the layouts, launchers and other stuff. But changing kernel and rooting devices to use system procedures. These are just for developers and those who actually know abt stuff. Not for the common man.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
Because Samsung need sale by millions on US like Apple but must be very Secured:
Quote from another post:
...The Knox Bootloader that is the first from a new type of bootloaders, block and not permit many things.
To understand what is the Knox and is bootloader and kernel read this:
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/overview/technical-details See also the video How to Use on it...
On the first attachment we see at left the usual Android, at right we see the Android whit the Samsung Security System Knox in white and the usual until now in blue. Whit this System people can have like two phones on one. A personal whit his own appl and a second secured to work on Enterprises and Governments and others.
The Knox Bootloader protect the secured part and not permit the flashing by Odin some files that it consider not secured like the oldest bootloaders. Then the Knox Warranty Void: 0x0 is first of all the Security System Knox secured. 0x1 is not secured.
For example I quote this from that doc/link:
Samsung KNOX offers a multi-faceted security solution rooted in the tamper-resistant device hardware, through the Linux kernel and Android operating system. The first line of defense against malicious attacks, Samsung KNOX is currently approved to run on US Department of Defense networks. (If flag 0x0, my opinion).
fterh said:
Android is supposed to be open, customizable and free, vs iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there's your problem.
Android is open, customizable, and free - at source code level. However, individual implementations (such as Samsung's Touchwiz) have so such requirement to be so.
People like us, who like to hack around with our phones, are not the market that Samsung is aiming for. The vast, vast majority of Samsung Android users are never going to root their phone, manually upgrade/downgrade their firmware via Odin, or install custom ROMs. These users are *never* going to even thing about tripping Knox, let alone do anything that might trip it.
To be fair, Samsung are not alone in this - pretty much all major phone vendors are doing similar. Someone works out how to get S-OFF on the HTC One, and HTC release a patch to prevent it.
Going forward, I see a time coming where if you want to have complete control over your device, you will have to buy a developer edition.
Regards,
Dave
Really? Another thread to whine about Knox?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
ultramag69 said:
These companies get too big and start to dictate what the user wants instead of listening... And when they are sitting pretty on top they tend to stop developing new innovations because "They are the best" and then the item tends to stagnate with VERY little actual developement thrown in. Anything new is a kneejerk reaction to the next up and comer for king of the heap....
They will still say it is for the best of the user but in reality its because they're too damn lazy to work. Then comes the copyright everything attitudeand the litigation and more effort is spent suing others for copyright einfingement than making the latest and greatest, what was Apple"s big thing a while back, oh yeah, lets make it white....
Works well for them and most users who have a hard time working out which end to speak in but not for those who actually want to own, use and control what their device actually does....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post basically nails all the reasons in one fell swoop..
And then they are forcing to use original accessories which is really really stupid of Samsung.
Question: Why is Samsung acting like Apple?
Answer: Because Apple is the most successful company in the world.
Do you really need another reason?
aydc said:
Question: Why is Samsung acting like Apple?
Answer: Because Apple is the most successful company in the world.
Do you really need another reason?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
C'mon!!
OK. I've had rooted and hacked everyphohe I've had.. Since Nokia monocromatic days, Sony Ericsson devices and now android... I've used almost every custom ROM.. Applied hundreds of modifications, etc, etc... Trust me. Its funny how ppl complain about software and this Knox thing... Android continues to be on top of iOS for many many reasons... Many many reasons!!
I personally like to root .. Of course but with power comes disorder.. Yes maybe cosmetic custom is one of the reasons for rooting..and its fun. But as it comes with plenty of features so it comes with problems never experienced on stock.. Like freezes, restarts,etc, etc.. U know what am talking about.. Most of us have chosen the Gnote 3 for its innumerable capacities over almost every device on the market. It is a beast. No doubt. For me I haven't seen yet any modification or feature that make me wanna root my note.. It is a beast as it is now. Am not running KK.. Uh uh.. I'll wait for a more completed version... I have more than 15 years using cellphones and customizing them.. And now it seems that companies are getting to know what customers need in their devices .. That's why rooting will no longer be necessary.. Why don't you sit and think about this? I've root my Sgs2 and could have the multi window feature when it came out.. And the list goes and goes.. Arent you able to see we are going to another place now with stock phones?? Actually CM will have its on device sponsored by Google itself !!! See for example the multiple features of the moto x ... It is like R2D2 haha.. Personally I'm happy with the nowadays devices..let s see what's next...
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app
At least Samsung will not shut down your phone and force update, like Crapple does, on Samsung at least you can disable updates. And blame other users as well for this lockdowns: how many people brick their phones when modding and then at least try to claim warranty repairs or exchange? I don't have to look far, my good friend rooted his Note3 and this made his Gear stop working. Couldn't fix it, so he took it to service center and strangely enough they did fix it for free (he may have unrooted first, I don't know), by bringing all to stock and he is a hacker, perfectly capable of figuring it out, just didn't want to bother I guess. And yes, because Crapple is so successful, many companies will follow suit, so blame all Crapple users as well. If Crapple was a total failure, no one would imitate them.
pete4k said:
At least Samsung will not shut down your phone and force update, like Crapple does, on Samsung at least you can disable updates. And blame other users as well for this lockdowns: how many people brick their phones when modding and then at least try to claim warranty repairs or exchange? I don't have to look far, my good friend rooted his Note3 and this made his Gear stop working. Couldn't fix it, so he took it to service center and strangely enough they did fix it for free (he may have unrooted first, I don't know), by bringing all to stock and he is a hacker, perfectly capable of figuring it out, just didn't want to bother I guess. And yes, because Crapple is so successful, many companies will follow suit, so blame all Crapple users as well. If Crapple was a total failure, no one would imitate them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soon change in a few years. You'll see Samsung become more and more like Apple in time.
Samsung used to be just another Korean electronics company, like what LG is today. Then they started copying Apple. The more they copied Apple, the more successful they became. It's this simple. Believe it. If you do what successful people do, you become successful. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't work.
aydc said:
Samsung used to be just another Korean electronics company, like what LG is today. Then they started copying Apple. The more they copied Apple, the more successful they became. It's this simple. Believe it. If you do what successful people do, you become successful. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just like the sales of apple is now falling I believe it will also happen to samsung.
Another thing not related to your comment since they've stopped allot people from rooting and developing due to the warranty issues. Development is Damn slow now. Like they did with gokhanmoral (think thats how you spell it all credits to him) with the s2 they had cherry picked from his kernel tree to implement into the stock to make stock run even smoother. Now there's only really one kernel in development for the international model compared to what previous phones had where there were quite a range.
What's the point of having really high end specs if you can't really exploit them? and sticking to something which much lower and play 'safe'.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app