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It annoys me how biased some people can be towards phones for the stupidest reasons. Just because it's not HTC, they put it down and only think of all the bad points it could possibly have even though it either hasn't been released or they haven't owned it. For example, the ATRIX is by far more superior hardware wise than the Inspire, yet people make comments that it's gonna be a fail because it's not HTC and point out that all the things better than the Inspire are useless (ffc, dual core, HDMI out, docks, 1GB ram, fingerprint scanner thingy). Yes, some of them are useless (fingerprint scanner imo) but, like, I saw a post saying "not HTC, only 5 MP camera... no thanks" which is completely biased and annoys me. They also say that motoblur is horrible and htc sense is the best, but I honestly dont like sense. It goes to far into the system and you just can't get rid of it, plus I find it slow. With motoblur its just the launcher and a few widgets. Get a new launcher from the market and its gone. I've had smartphones from all 3 major manufacturer and I can't bring myself to judge a phone based on the manufacturer. HTC is great, but not the best. They all have good and bad things to them. My experience with HTC has been bad build quailty. Plus they seem to use the least powerful innards. I know their will be flamers for this, but its the truth and i'm seeing in everywhere in general discussion.
Probably the main reason people badmouth the Atrix is because Motorola took a perfectly good product and vomited BLUR all over it, thus making it less than half as awesome as it would ordinarily be.
Not to mention they likely locked the bootloader, too...
Edit: HTC is usually praised for build quality and while they don't use the most powerful guts (likely a side effect of their allegiance to Qualcomm), they do respectably well. The things I hear HTC panned for are usually things like Sense sucking and the audio/media playback quality being terrible.
I can think of one reason to hate Motorola: EFUSE. Simple. Its draconian, it alienates a large portion of users, and serves practically no value that I could find. Htc has something similar, but wasn't it cracked really quickly?
Powered by Fission, from my DROID 2
I was hoping that Motorola would use the OMAP4 SoC over the Tegra2, but I guess that's cool of them to use Tegra2. Motoblur is kind of bad though, but better than TouchWiz to be honest.
I have had phones from both Motorola (although not smartphones) and HTC. I wouldn't get a Motorola phone on my network because all of them are kind of bad, but the ones on other networks (mainly Verizon) are pretty cool.
As the saying says "Everyone speaks according to their own personal experience"
Said that, I have been using HTC since 2005 and never had any problem!, so I´ll keep it faithful to the brand
The best devices designs on my personal opinion.
I've had both and I love my HTC. I don't really like stock Sense but custom ROMs fix that quickly. But HTCs have awesome build quality and quality control which cannot be said for motorola. That being said, the Droid X is a sexy ass phone.
Lemme join the rant.
I have no specific love for HTC, despite typing this on a HTC phone. However, I consider Motorola a good hardware company with crap support and product on the software side. Considering the bootloader, kernel, blur, etc.
Powered by Android
pl4sMa said:
Lemme join the rant.
I have no specific love for HTC, despite typing this on a HTC phone. However, I consider Motorola a good hardware company with crap support and product on the software side. Considering the bootloader, kernel, blur, etc.
Powered by Android
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Click to collapse
Most of the time people care about what kind of experience they get from using the phone. In this case, Motorola usually doesn't deliver in the software end.
If I know that I don't want to use Motorola's version of software, I'd come here or go to another place where I can download a firmware I like better. Without that option, I don't want the phone no matter how good the innards are (not which company makes it).
That said, I'm willing to wait to see what kind of 3rd party support, if any, the Atrix gets.
Honestly it should say something about the company though if people are willing to go out of their way to either avoid or endorse it. Honestly over the past few years I have just not been hot on Motorola's build quality, its been going down hill, nor the way it treats its customers. In the end I would just prefer to vote with my wallet, and the day some one makes a phone that has a totally removable SD card memory that is totally hackable, that is the day a company will find a totally unwavering customer.
I saw the OpenMoko phone at an Linux event.
copius said:
Most of the time people care about what kind of experience they get from using the phone. In this case, Motorola usually doesn't deliver in the software end.
If I know that I don't want to use Motorola's version of software, I'd come here or go to another place where I can download a firmware I like better. Without that option, I don't want the phone no matter how good the innards are (not which company makes it).
That said, I'm willing to wait to see what kind of 3rd party support, if any, the Atrix gets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is so bad about motoblur? And even if it of tjat bad couldn55 just use a custom launcher to solve the problem? Oh and im asking; I haven't used a motorola phone yet.
Undying brand loyalty can be very illogical, but people are bound to find themselves being loyal to a brand if they've had nothing but good experiences with it.
As XDA members at least we aren't as limited in our choices, as most would be, when deciding what to buy. We have the option to tailor our software preferences to our liking with custom ROMs, themes etc, thanks to the great devs and their prodigious output!
Zephyrs said:
It annoys me how biased some people can be towards phones for the stupidest reasons. Just because it's not HTC, they put it down and only think of all the bad points it could possibly have even though it either hasn't been released or they haven't owned it. For example, the ATRIX is by far more superior hardware wise than the Inspire, yet people make comments that it's gonna be a fail because it's not HTC and point out that all the things better than the Inspire are useless (ffc, dual core, HDMI out, docks, 1GB ram, fingerprint scanner thingy). Yes, some of them are useless (fingerprint scanner imo) but, like, I saw a post saying "not HTC, only 5 MP camera... no thanks" which is completely biased and annoys me. They also say that motoblur is horrible and htc sense is the best, but I honestly dont like sense. It goes to far into the system and you just can't get rid of it, plus I find it slow. With motoblur its just the launcher and a few widgets. Get a new launcher from the market and its gone. I've had smartphones from all 3 major manufacturer and I can't bring myself to judge a phone based on the manufacturer. HTC is great, but not the best. They all have good and bad things to them. My experience with HTC has been bad build quailty. Plus they seem to use the least powerful innards. I know their will be flamers for this, but its the truth and i'm seeing in everywhere in general discussion.
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Click to collapse
I understand exactly how you feel. Make a comment about owning and using an LG Ally. See how nasty the comments get then. This phone does everything I need it to do with no issues whatsoever. But, I get to hear about how much of a POS it is, how slow it is, how LG phones are garbage, etc, etc, etc.....blindly ignorant loyalty to a certain brand is really ridiculous.
JL
I just wish they would sell two versions of each phone, stock android and sense/blur/touchwiz. I personally dislike all the manufacturer uis , but I know plenty of people who love them.
I know that is crazy thinking, but its the reason I'm getting a nexus s, go stock go home.
Zardos66 said:
I just wish they would sell two versions of each phone, stock android and sense/blur/touchwiz. I personally dislike all the manufacturer uis , but I know plenty of people who love them.
I know that is crazy thinking, but its the reason I'm getting a nexus s, go stock go home.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too, hate them with a passion. Nexus line all the way for me, whoever makes it!
I wish Google would take a leaf out of the MS play-book and insist on manufacturers selling their devices with a stock OS. Of course then it would run counter to the open-sauciness of Android.
IPhone is really trying to ban Galaxy phones now ??? in Europe ???
See link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14652482
What is going on Galaxy can get around this Just by not including their comple rom...........
This would create a GREAT opportunity for MIUI or CM to assist in the battle against IPhones specious arguments
Your Thought ??
oka1 said:
IPhone is really trying to ban Galaxy phones now ??? in Europe ???
See link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14652482
What is going on Galaxy can get around this Just by not including their comple rom...........
This would create a GREAT opportunity for MIUI or CM to assist in the battle against IPhones specious arguments
Your Thought ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The major selling point of the s2 is the fact that it's the only hardware accelerated android phone. Throw cm7 or miui on there and its just another mediocre android device that's completely unimpressive. Unless either miui or cm plan on writing brand new drivers and Samsung intends to offer some sort of licensing deal then there's no real plus side to it.
Apple is pretty obnoxious. Their patents are ridiculously general
oka1 said:
IPhone is really trying to ban Galaxy phones now ??? in Europe ???
See link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14652482
What is going on Galaxy can get around this Just by not including their comple rom...........
This would create a GREAT opportunity for MIUI or CM to assist in the battle against IPhones specious arguments
Your Thought ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trying, actually doing. This time it is in the Netherlands where it is illegal for Samsung to sell the Galaxy S, Galaxy S 2.
MartyLK said:
his time it is in the Netherlands where it is illegal for Samsung to sell the Galaxy S, Galaxy S 2.
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Click to collapse
No it's not. The injunction would take effect sometime in October, but by then Samsung will have their phones updated, so it's moot.
@z33dev33l: There is more to a phone than which chip is responsible for scrolling.
Gusar321 said:
No it's not. The injunction would take effect sometime in October, but by then Samsung will have their phones updated, so it's moot.
@z33dev33l: There is more to a phone than which chip is responsible for scrolling.
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Click to collapse
its still just another laggy android phone without samsungs drivers.
Yeah, no matter how many people tell you they don't see any problems, all Androids are so laggy you measure scrolling in seconds per frame instead of frames per second. Sure.
Get a new shtick please, this one is getting boring.
Gusar321 said:
Yeah, no matter how many people tell you they don't see any problems, all Androids are so laggy you measure scrolling in seconds per frame instead of frames per second. Sure.
Get a new shtick please, this is is getting boring.
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Click to collapse
nonsensical post first of all, second of all android did seem smooth til I got something smoother. Now every time I try to use an android device, gs2 included, I notice these little catches that I wouldn't have even seen before but now make the phone feel like I paid 500 dollars for feel cheap.
Of course it's nonsensical. But it's what you're saying all the time! So the nonsense is not on my part, but on yours. You *are* constantly talking as if Android is so slow, and as if all that matters on a phone is which chip does the scrolling. But of course when you're saying it, you don't see the nonsense in it.
protip, as usual: don't feed the troll.
Gusar321 said:
Of course it's nonsensical. But it's what you're saying all the time! So the nonsense is not on my part, but on yours. You *are* constantly talking as if Android is so slow, and as if all that matters on a phone is which chip does the scrolling. But of course when you're saying it, you don't see the nonsense in it.
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Click to collapse
I was talking about your "seconds per frame" comment, none of what you said there made any sort of sense. Android is slow which is one of many faults in it, I like a phone that just works, nothing I have to crack flash roms to, nothing I have to download 40 apps to before it has basic functions, and certainly nothing that lags relentlessly and force closes on me. I just wanted a device that works how a smartphone should without spending days or weeks making it do so before the phone became moderately useful.
just to make sure you guys don't forget, considering my last reminder was on page 1:
don't feed the troll.
I don't even know why people with Iphones make an account on XDA...You take what apple gives you and that's that.
lowandbehold said:
I don't even know why people with Iphones make an account on XDA...You take what apple gives you and that's that.
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Click to collapse
iPhones are horrendous aside from the app market, the UI is more cluttered than android though admittedly more uniform, and the hardware offers no choices. I am a long time winmo user and for a year and a half used android, I still have 14 android phones that dont get used. I'm just always on the lookout for the best. I'm a fanboy of no OS, whatever is best is what I use.
z33dev33l said:
I was talking about your "seconds per frame" comment, none of what you said there made any sort of sense.
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Click to collapse
Oh, come on, surely you know that graphics speed (particularly 3d graphics) is measured in frames per second. You can't be going on and on about GPU acceleration the way you do and not know that. You're ether more clueless than I thought or just really good at trolling.
z33dev33l said:
I'm a fanboy of no OS
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Click to collapse
You're capable of saying that with a straight face? Impressive. Very impressive. Oh, and LOL.
z33dev33l said:
of course I know that but your seconds per frame comment was what made no sense at all.
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Click to collapse
Oh please. You have a brain. Use it.
pmcqueen said:
protip, as usual: don't feed the troll.
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Click to collapse
Exactly,
BTW Samsung did enter into a agreement with Cyanogen group, my guess is it was preemptive strategy.
People who look at an Android phone as laggy have not really taken advantage of ALL the great work by the Devs here @ XDA, or Rootzwiki or elsewhere. My phone is screaming fast great battery life....etc.
My guess is Samsung along with HTC in particular are integrating the advancements made by US in the android community, because the fact that the op system is open all advancements can be blended in the best and fastest way. That is the beauty of the Android op system.
What Android is lacking is a singular voice......... Iphone is one phone one supplier. Android is many. So Iphone can effect great marketing assuring the customer that paying more for less is awesome and makes them feel good. But the fact is the Iphone is less for more. Android needs to get this message out in a single voice from all suppliers.
Gusar321 said:
Oh, come on, surely you know that graphics speed (particularly 3d graphics) is measured in frames per second. You can't be going on and on about GPU acceleration the way you do and not know that. You're ether more clueless than I thought or just really good at trolling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
of course I know that but your seconds per frame comment was what made no sense at all.
oka1 said:
Exactly,
BTW Samsung did enter into a agreement with Cyanogen group, my guess is it was preemptive strategy.
People who look at an Android phone as laggy have not really taken advantage of ALL the great work by the Devs here @ XDA, or Rootzwiki or elsewhere. My phone is screaming fast great battery life....etc.
My guess is Samsung along with HTC in particular are integrating the advancements made by US in the android community, because the fact that the op system is open all advancements can be blended in the best and fastest way. That is the beauty of the Android op system.
What Android is lacking is a singular voice......... Iphone is one phone one supplier. Android is many. So Iphone can effect great marketing assuring the customer that paying more for less is awesome and makes them feel good. But the fact is the Iphone is less for more. Android needs to get this message out in a single voice from all suppliers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so they're combining the efforts of the xda community, google, and all of the OEMs to make an OS work almost as well as wp7 and (sadly) IOS do? Of course people will still have full system access to slow it down.
z33 i perfectly understand the point you wanna make here. I know you're not a simple troll, just a quite informed and very very picky user (like i am after all). Tbh i wasn't really likely to pick another android phone in the latest months, because i was (and i actually still am) disappointed about how the aosp is managed by google. After a year of usage i came to the conclusion that android os has many, MANY flaws. I started considering other devices, like wp7 phones, the iphone and even the new bold 9900, but after a lot of reflections i came to a quite simple conclusion: sure android isn't perfect, but jumping ship to any other os would have still felt like a downgrade to me, being used to what android offers to users: it simply felt like not having a real choice. Basically i (re)discovered that messing up my phone and being able to plug it to every pc or mac as a mere mass storage is actually something i like and need. So a couple weeks ago i looked around, checked which one was the most up to date and powerful android phone and picked up my sgs2, simple as that. Now i'm running a simple aosp rom, and i can say i'm not bothered that much about not having samsung's hw accelerated ui (which is a bit of a lie actually: if you load the tw launcher with a few widgets it actually lags): i use opera mobile for browsing, which is totally fast and smooth (buttery smooth), and launcher pro plus as a launcher, which is virtually lag free on this device, regardless how badly you load it with widgets.
It's true, you can see it from what i just said, android is all about workarounds to avoid flaws and bugs, but honestly i prefer *****ing a bit more with my phone to get it running as i like rather than getting any wp7 or ios device that takes no effort to "customize", but at the end of the day is like a wife telling you what you can and can't do
That's the way i see it at least...
Gusar321 said:
No it's not. The injunction would take effect sometime in October, but by then Samsung will have their phones updated, so it's moot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And the Tab isn't included
I expect an update from Google reasonably quickly which will prevent Apple trying the same trick with other companies.
In other news, Nokia have won against Apple, meaning they'll earn royalties from Apple.
I am genuinely pissed after they postponed the ICS event because I felt like that would be the infuses' time to get current with its OS. Maybe I'm venting my frustration a bit but 500K+ devices are turned on per day(at least for the next few months). I see that version pie chart and Froyo is still number 1 despite GB releasing roughly 10 months ago(not to mention a new version is weeks from releasing) . It's exactly why I come here.
I would also like to point out that the Fragmentation also causes what I like to call a popularity contest. Yes you have a crap ton of device options but guess what the carriers and manufacturer are making sure the cash cows are first in line. Do you think they have as many engineers/developers working with the ChaCha as they do on sgs2? Hell no
Why is Google shooting themselves in the foot in staying current? Why on earth haven't they sat down with the phone manufacturers and hammered out some sort of standard to speed up adoption of new OS?
Android has a wide array of devices and that makes them unique and better than the competition by offering choice.
I understand that the burden of keeping up to speed primarily falls to the manufacturer/carriers which blows for us. The maker/google contract states the carrier only has update the device for 18 months. The definition and or frequency of an update is obscure at best.
I don't even want to guess how much money is being wasted on development overlapping costs because of the hodgepodge of devices. I tried to find out exactly how many hardware devices are currently supported. I found a list of everything but no summary I didn't feel like counting the but a good estimate is 350 + worldwide.
I understand the development life cycle as well as a hardware life-cycle. I fail to understand why integration of an update takes longer than one quarter to apply.
Google develops tests and releases system updates. The manufacturers takes that update and tests it with their bull**** on top (IE touch wiz and sense) then they test on devices.
Carriers finally now test the update, certify it, and push to users(never pushed at one time because they would never risk any downtime or damage to their network).
Wtf google step your game up and reduce the impact of Fragmentation because its only going to get worse and worse.
I'm the kind of device user that makes a well informed decision and won't get a new device until it breaks or I lose it(wow thinking about it I really am horrible with phones).
I have had this phone since it came out in April and I love it (I left it in a cab during the first 2 weeks I had it but was able to get my replacement soon after). Basically I'm a day one Adopter I had my original rooted and rom'd. It drastically improved the general usability of the phone. I decided to wait to mod the phone until I got the official gb to see what it could bring to the table. I really like the one click update with no issues but my hand has been forced. My device has been becoming noticeably slower and i find myself pulling the battery at least once every 2 days. To use it as a phone like it was intended I need to port to a mod. The
Thank you developers for implementing what the billion dollar corporations could not in literally 1/10 of the time.
Sorry if I ranted I'm pissed and there's no way I'm going down to wallstreet lol I'm lazy.
Jason
Note: I also read that it could reach nearly 1 million devices a day by the end of Oct/Nov.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Trust me I understand your frustration! According to google ICS was supposed to be that game changing release but honestly marketing is what is stopping companies from unifying. A majority of people who get an Android device don't know what the hell to do with it, how it works, or in the most part don't care (or at least don't seem to understand the difference between froyo and GB) they just want a functioning
phone. Then comes ios, that's why it's so popular.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium
I do venture to say that android developers are hurting as well with having to unnecessarily cater to multiple versions of the same OS. I was under the impression that ICS was that as well and will be a step in that direction. Once again how long will that take to push out to consumers? Are we supposed to wait until then? Google just needs to grow some balls and steer the proverbial green bull by the horns before the amount of devices becomes the reason we dont run with the bulls anymore.
jasonk1229 said:
I do venture to say that android developers are hurting as well with having to unnecessarily cater to multiple versions of the same OS. I was under the impression that ICS was that as well and will be a step in that direction. Once again how long will that take to push out to consumers? Are we supposed to wait until then? Google just needs to grow some balls and steer the proverbial green bull by the horns before the amount of devices becomes the reason we dont run with the bulls anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite frankly your frustration (and mine) is backed by the dev community; to atleast some extent. Although, I still believe google saw the bright green money tree right above their noses and since then, can not let go of the smell! In other words, there wont' be a solution in the near future.
Android has become more like Linux in terms of fragmentation!
diablo009 said:
Android has become more like Linux in terms of fragmentation!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't name to you all the releases that are out there
Yes I love my Infuse but Fragmentation really move my temper gauge over the top. Still loving the infuse 4g screen, but the apps almost all force close error, and my facebook app sometime does not notify me on the notifiction bar and so is textfree app, i am really getting frustrated even yahoo a very big company the video call is a mess, i am in the edge of going back to iPhone which is not my choice, but google make this on OS, stop fragmentation.
spirikitik said:
Yes I love my Infuse but Fragmentation really move my temper gauge over the top. Still loving the infuse 4g screen, but the apps almost all force close error, and my facebook app sometime does not notify me on the notifiction bar and so is textfree app, i am really getting frustrated even yahoo a very big company the video call is a mess, i am in the edge of going back to iPhone which is not my choice, but google make this on OS, stop fragmentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you running a custom rom, kernel, radio, are you OC/UV?
Any and all of these things can and will give you instability. I had a cm7 theme that kept crashing the system on my backflip.
The only way to do away with MOST not all issues is to live in "the box".
Android fragmentation is a big problem.
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
MikeyMike01 said:
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
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Click to collapse
Lol. By the ICS is out on a couple phones he would've switched to a different phone.
MikeyMike01 said:
Android fragmentation is a big problem.
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There comes devs who may port it (hopefully). Ics is supposed to get rid of the fragmentation, and maybegoogle has something up there sleeve to combine all phones and most get ics who knows. Google and Sammy have just hired cynagen (sorry bad speling) and other major devs. They may just help figure out this problem, where they are actually smart and put this into consideration.
I want my freakin Gingerbread! Stupid fragmentation! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Kevinr678 said:
I want my freakin Gingerbread! Stupid fragmentation! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
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Click to collapse
Really missing my old HTC phones right now. Hell, one official rom could be easily ported over to like six others with those phones. Samsung has fantastic hardware but HTC dev support is superior.
Sent from my Samsung Infuse
slapshot30 said:
Really missing my old HTC phones right now. Hell, one official rom could be easily ported over to like six others with those phones. Samsung has fantastic hardware but HTC dev support is superior.
Sent from my Samsung Infuse
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agreed. Phone's that will never officially have things like Sense 3.5 have it, and the same with firmwares. I do love my Samsung though.
Ryanscool said:
There comes devs who may port it (hopefully). Ics is supposed to get rid of the fragmentation, and maybegoogle has something up there sleeve to combine all phones and most get ics who knows. Google and Sammy have just hired cynagen (sorry bad speling) and other major devs. They may just help figure out this problem, where they are actually smart and put this into consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem is that every phone has vendor-proprietary bits to handle specific hardware support that aren't portable. The Apache license of the Android userland stack makes this possible. Also the ability to have proprietary modules loaded by the kernel doesn't help - for example the FSR and RFS drivers in the Infuse. The same reason you'll likely never see ICS for the Infuse is the same reason you didn't see CM7 until Rogers Gingerbread dropped. (It existed, but it was in a barely usable state until the vendor-proprietary stuff from Rogers GB could get pulled in.)
The good news is that I think Google is forcing vendors to "play nicer" as far as the low-level vendor-proprietary code in order to make AOSP bringups easier. They enforced a LOT of standardization with Honeycomb - the question is can they keep that going with ICS without witholding source like with HC? I think that by exercising tighter control over Google Apps licensing they can.
The Galaxy S II is a hint of things to come - while it still has vendor-proprietary libraries in the userland stack, it has zero closed-source components in the kernel, unlike previous Samsungs.
Motivation and $.
my opinion only...but, phone carriers have no motivation* to update the o.s. of phones already sold.
Just a few random thoughts...
1. Limited $ to be made from you (the customer waiting for an upgrade)
....a. sale of the device is already made.
....b. buyer is already locked into a long-term contract.
2. they are a phone company not a software company...thus any software developers they might have are probably focused on future sales and testing.
3. they don't make money releasing updates to already sold phones.
4. support staff would have to be pretty good size.
I wonder if the phone providers keep software upgrade staff or do they contract that out??? say to the phone manufacture (i.e. samsung, htc)? I have no idea.
(I am assuming it's the phone carriers who are the primary cause of delays in releasing software updates...not necessarily the
* what's more important to them? Future repeat customers due to good service OR simply getting them locked into longterm service contracts? Obviously point 2.
I wish fragmentation was decreased to that of the IBM compatibe market. (Am I the only one that still calls them that?)
Sent from my SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
Interesting point I would have to say they contract the work out to upgrade versions. If they haven't already I wouldn't be surprised to see full teams being hired as android becomes more permanent.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
Great post
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
The debate continues on TechCrunch:
http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/27/charted-android-fragmentation/
Do y'all think that companies like HTC, sammy etc will theme ICS a lot or will they leave it rather vanilla such as they did with most of the HC tablets?
Small changes like Honeycomb+Touchwiz would be nice.
They will continue to add sense and touchwiz. That is the manufacturers selling point to draw in the average consumer. Without it, they wouldn't be able to build a loyal fan base.
Yep, they will theme it complete with the extra 6 months update turn around...
hmm, long time to go for ics..
One thing i liked about honeycomb was that there was consistency yet there were slight differences (except Gtab) I have nothing against skins but ICS lets you freeze apps right... what if they let you freeze the skin allowing you to use vanilla
MrDrumngun said:
Do y'all think that companies like HTC, sammy etc will theme ICS a lot or will they leave it rather vanilla such as they did with most of the HC tablets?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, they'll load it up with Bloatware and horrible skins as normal. Only the Nexus will be Vanilla, or the custom AOSP ROM route as usual.
So this means that Google has asoultely no power (/will) to stop the fragmentation of the user experience. Good. My hope is that, at some point, Android becomes "like" WP7, meaning that manifacturers can only add a few removable apps if they want to, but they're not allowed to touch the OS. Anyway this isn't very likely to happen because unlike Microsoft Google doesn't sell an OS, they just sell ads, so in the end they basically don't give a flying **** about the consistency of the user experience
vnvman said:
So this means that Google has asoultely no power (/will) to stop the fragmentation of the user experience. Good. My hope is that, at some point, Android becomes "like" WP7, meaning that manifacturers can only add a few removable apps if they want to, but they're not allowed to touch the OS. Anyway this isn't very likely to happen because unlike Microsoft Google doesn't sell an OS, they just sell ads, so in the end they basically don't give a flying **** about the consistency of the user experience
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Actually the Android OS is under Apache..Google sells Android for commercial use.
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vnvman said:
So this means that Google has asoultely no power (/will) to stop the fragmentation of the user experience. Good. My hope is that, at some point, Android becomes "like" WP7, meaning that manifacturers can only add a few removable apps if they want to, but they're not allowed to touch the OS. Anyway this isn't very likely to happen because unlike Microsoft Google doesn't sell an OS, they just sell ads, so in the end they basically don't give a flying **** about the consistency of the user experience
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Your conclusion is correct.
People buy into 'Brand Loyalty'. Unfortunately the Android 'Brand' isn't Google. It's HTC, Samsung, LG etc, unlike WP7 which is clearly Microsoft flavour, or iphone, which is clearly Apple flavour.
I bet half of people who own an Android phone have never even heard of the OS. It's funny really. Two of them will meet and start comparing phones. "What's your phone?". "It's a HTC, i think. Yours?". "It says Samsung on it. I guess that's what it is huh?". "Mines got a big clock on it.." etc. Android means nothing to most people. There's just so many Android phones that it's inevitable that it would have a large market share. It has no identity though.
lot of people may find it a little to minimalistic, so customization il 101% sure .. personally i like the way it is vanilla style
Skins would be fine if the manufacturer gave you an easier way to disable them, besides the fact that some are ugly as sin, they're also resource hogs.
ICS is the great smoth view.. i really like it.
but now ICS not yet officially launched.
you can use ICS theme on Market from ADW laucher and Theme Chooser
This is what i think the real and biggest problem with android is, the battle is not with apple, their os or their phone. The actual problem is this-
"Google has done an extremely awesome job with jelly bean, the 'project butter' has really changed the Android experience, experience is fast and ultra responsive, devices dont lag when u turn them on or when u wake them from sleep. Google Now is pretty instant and gives some delightfully satisfying answers which the software is all about, offline voice typing is also pretty accurate, fast and an actual step forward with voice typing, the animations are wonderful, the lockscreen is simple and easy to use and its pretty fast, and what to say about notifications they are just a treat to use.
But all of what google has done is waste, total waste.
Cause OEMs wont be able give JB to their devices. Why? Because they will be busy to make stock JB look ugly, they will be busy to just change the way the UI looks so that their device can look be different no matter if its uglier than stock, they will be busy to add stupid features like 'direct call' when the call button is just their above the messages(I MEAN ITS JUST ONE FREAKING TAP ON THE CALL BUTTON AS ITS JUST RIGHT THEIR, U R LOOKING AT THE SCREEN ANYWAY SO U CAN JUST PRESS THAT FREAKING BUTTON TO CALL THAT PERSON), features like 'Tap to Top' (CAN'T U JUST FLICK UR FINGER ON THE SCREEN TO SCROLL BACK TO TOP, IT TURNS OUT THAT U CAN BUT OEMs HAVE TO ADD THESE FANCY FEATURES TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT THEY CAN DO FANCY 'CODING'), they have to add fancy and weird lockscreen. I know some features are important to add for ur company like various camera settings that google don't add cause they simply dont feel the need of those settings, BUT WHY THE HELL OEMs HAVE TO ADD THEIR FREAKING CUSTOM UGLY SKINS AND USELESS FEATURES.
I think google should do something to stop this madness, i see tons of bulls*** on internet just to compare the iphone and android. Most of the comments is people saying that they have older version of android on their device and 'not the one shown in the video' but on iphone they have latest software that is even in 'iphone4s' so they still think iphones are better. It ALL ABOUT UPDATES, GOOGLE WORK REALLY HARD ON ANDROID AND THE RESULT IS THAT MAJORITY OF ANDROID DEVICES ARE STILL ON '2.3.3.
Its pretty dissapointing to see how idiotic OEMs behave about updates, skins and fancy features. I hope the google PDK help OEMs to give faster update.
Some comapnies are still struggling to push ICS to their old devices and JB is out, they are busy in working on their new devices and some few people from their team work on OS updates to old devices, and the process is so slow because they are busy in adding ****ty skins and features.
P.S. Other OEMs should learn from HUAWEI, they also wanted to add some features that they feel are useful to their ICS phones, but they didnt ****ed the UI, they have their file manager, their cloud services, some additional camera app features in their ICS phones but they dont **** the UI."
This is what i think, i was pretty angry about OEMs and updates so i shared all my thoughts on a g+ post and this quote is the same g+ post.
Here is my g+ profile- https://plus.google.com/117638526643371847672/posts
I think/hope Google is having this very revelation, since they are supposedly releasing some more Nexus devices in November. I know I'm waiting to see if one of those devices is a slider, as the rumor goes. I'm definitely with you on this!
You are absolutely right. Maybe not every OEM's ROM is bad, but they shouldn't try to make things better because it takes a lot of time and usually makes the system look ugly. That makes Android different on almost every manufacturer's device...
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One thing that I have decided that I am just going to buy devices that come under Google's NEXUS program. That way even if I may get not the latest and greatest hardware, I am still assured that I will get updates for at least 2-3 years and instant updates is what we are talking about.
Feel You
Hahahahahha
Anger is good
you were right about every single word
OEMs ruin the Android
trying to make it better
while the only thing happening is Android getting S*** taste instead of vanilla taste
well
on my side
i would prefer if the Stock android was available to all phones beside the OEMs one
in that way we have a choice
also
the Android pure Rom is much better than any other
i came to that after a lot of flashing
---------- Post added at 11:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 PM ----------
yogi2010 said:
I think/hope Google is having this very revelation, since they are supposedly releasing some more Nexus devices in November. I know I'm waiting to see if one of those devices is a slider, as the rumor goes. I'm definitely with you on this!
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Slider +1:victory:
Haha, I also was getting myself worked up the other day thinking about carriers: I'm sure they also have a lot to do with how long updates take to come out. And, they get you on a 2-year contract, and then you're lucky if they support the device with updates for even 1 year!
I'm hoping PDK begins to lock down a bit of what they can do. Also, Carriers are a huge problem too. They don't want you to get updates.
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You know I see a lot of people thinking that all OEM do is make it look ugly ( to be honest all the OEM and ICS default themes look like crap)
But they do alot more. Take the SGS3 for example. All the nice software that made people excited about it would not be there if OEM didn't add their spin. All the nice features people enjoy wouldn't be there either. I mean if all that stuff didn't matter then people would be running a nexus as it is pure android.
Sent for a corner cell in Arkham
zelendel said:
You know I see a lot of people thinking that all OEM do is make it look ugly ( to be honest all the OEM and ICS default themes look like crap)
But they do alot more. Take the SGS3 for example. All the nice software that made people excited about it would not be there if OEM didn't add their spin. All the nice features people enjoy wouldn't be there either. I mean if all that stuff didn't matter then people would be running a nexus as it is pure android.
Sent for a corner cell in Arkham
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I understand what u mean, i have also mentioned in op that many OEMs feel the need of some features that stock android doesnt have and they can add and they should obviously add them but amount of these features are really low, most of the features we see are just fancy features that show that they can also 'code'.
I know a bit about android ICS (stock) as i make themes for theme engine and i made roms earlier. Its divided into two parts or two UIs, one is the dark part or the dominating part that we see across ICS, the grey backgrounds with blue text, other is the light UI, that is the white backgrounds with blue and black text. I am also not a big fan of they grey part of the UI but the white part is just wonderful. Also no OEMs' ui i have seen is better than stock ICS UI so they are clearly making it worse.
I hope google go full on with their white/light UI in next version of android.
Also i agree to the fact that many required features that a consumer wants these days with software these days are lacking in stock android like some settings, options and features in camera app, that actually all consumers these day want. I have seen many nokia users who still buy nokia phones cause they have these small features to mess with in camera app. There are many things that android team have not thought of added in stock android, and i think the main reason for that is the fear of people declaring their OS as 'complicated' and non-user friendly.
What worse it can get. Now Gnexus may get banned.
From now on Google is going to allow OEMs to gain access to upcoming versions of Android sooner than the general public so that they can get updates out sooner.
OEM skins annoy me as well. Most people care more about the apps than the OEM skin and all these differences between carriers default skins creates some fragmentation. OEM bloatware that can't be uninstalled also annoys me but at least with ICS apps can now be hidden without rooting.
Good point.
spunker88 said:
From now on Google is going to allow OEMs to gain access to upcoming versions of Android sooner than the general public so that they can get updates out sooner.
OEM skins annoy me as well. Most people care more about the apps than the OEM skin and all these differences between carriers default skins creates some fragmentation. OEM bloatware that can't be uninstalled also annoys me but at least with ICS apps can now be hidden without rooting.
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But still, Google is doing so that OEMs are ready to push updates along with Google. If Google is gonna give them new versions earlier we can assume they will give 1-2 months earlier and they will still be working on it so they will also give new source code later maybe 10-20 days earlier. So OEMs like Samsung or HTC who take 5-7 months for an update will still not be able to catch up with Google's announcements and updates.
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I agree and disagree.. I never used stock roms until i purchased the droid razr. I know blur makes it look better and also realize that motorola has a **** ton of bloatware that i have to freeze but i've been happy with gingerbread and now the ics stock roms. I do however think that needs to include an option to root the device on the configuration when you first setup the device. I think it shouldn't have locked bootloaders or things like that because it is linux underneath the nice ui and you should be able to mod it the way you like without having to hack everything. Long story short, most stock roms do look like crap and are bloated but some do a good job.
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Another thing I forgot about is carriers, they need to get their hands out of the software. My broadband ISP doesn't care what updates or OS I am running, they just provide me internet.
Ideally we would get all software upgrades from Google sort of like Windows, but I'm not sure if this is possible with Android. At least just let us update direct from the OEM, carriers shouldn't have to approve updates.
Guys support me and others who are with me and retweet #OmlyNexus and #****AndroidOEMs .
The OEMs don't care what you think, because they want you to run THEIR software - which they will be putting on their phones instead of Android eventually.
That's why Google is pushing their Nexus line to the next level, they know this to be true.
Look up Tizen and read about what Samsung is planning on doing.
With the open source nature of Linux, mfg's don't care about Android. That's why they are getting their customer's used to their "flavor" of Android, whether it be Sense UI or TouchWiz. They aren't spending all this time and money so that their developers can learn to make Android better.. they're getting ready to launch their own projects.
Google knows their time is limited as far as Android being the only major Linux player in the mobile phone business, and it's coming faster than people realize. Firefox, Tizen, Ubuntu.. just watch.
Half of these Android users won't even be on Android in two years, because they are loyal to HTC or Samsung, not Google.
Hence, the Nexus line.
ingenious247 said:
The OEMs don't care what you think, because they want you to run THEIR software - which they will be putting on their phones instead of Android eventually.
That's why Google is pushing their Nexus line to the next level, they know this to be true.
Look up Tizen and read about what Samsung is planning on doing.
With the open source nature of Linux, mfg's don't care about Android. That's why they are getting their customer's used to their "flavor" of Android, whether it be Sense UI or TouchWiz. They aren't spending all this time and money so that their developers can learn to make Android better.. they're getting ready to launch their own projects.
Google knows their time is limited as far as Android being the only major Linux player in the mobile phone business, and it's coming faster than people realize. Firefox, Tizen, Ubuntu.. just watch.
Half of these Android users won't even be on Android in two years, because they are loyal to HTC or Samsung, not Google.
Hence, the Nexus line.
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Actually u r a bit wrong here. As people are getting more informed and educated about android they are getting to know it, once they know and love android. They won't buy a new Samsung device with tizen or bada in it. I live in India, people here are slowly starting to know about android. And as u all know India is not one of the developed countries, still if people can like and know android and be loyal to it then why can't other countries' people do the same. We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first. Most of the companies are able to produce good hardware and mostly on a similar level, what matters is the software and OS.
bhu1 said:
Actually u r a bit wrong here. As people are getting more informed and educated about android they are getting to know it, once they know and love android. They won't buy a new Samsung device with tizen or bada in it. I live in India, people here are slowly starting to know about android. And as u all know India is not one of the developed countries, still if people can like and know android and be loyal to it then why can't other countries' people do the same. We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first. Most of the companies are able to produce good hardware and mostly on a similar level, what matters is the software and OS.
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I'll have to respectfully disagree here.
When the Samsung GS4 or the next HTC flagship device comes out, no one is going to care if it's running Android or not, except die-hard Android fans. All they will care about is the new features that the phone offers. And the mfgs are smart, they will make their platform compatible with Android apps, allow Google Market (and others). Look at Amazon, guarantee they will have their own Linux dist. as well eventually
and in regard to "We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first"
Uh, I don't think so. Minus the Nexus crowd, nobody buys their next phone because it is going to have JB, they buy it because it's going to have the newest/fastest dual/quad core, XXMp Camera, the newest 'smart' feature, the bigger screen, etc. Nobody ran out to buy the GS3 because it has ICS...
XDA is about 1-2% (if that) of Android users. And even on XDA, half of the users don't know enough about Android to even matter. Maybe it's somewhat different in India, but my guess is the people you are referring to are just starting to understand what Android/Linux really means, so that isn't really relevant to this discussion.
ingenious247 said:
I'll have to respectfully disagree here.
When the Samsung GS4 or the next HTC flagship device comes out, no one is going to care if it's running Android or not, except die-hard Android fans. All they will care about is the new features that the phone offers. And the mfgs are smart, they will make their platform compatible with Android apps, allow Google Market (and others). Look at Amazon, guarantee they will have their own Linux dist. as well eventually
and in regard to "We are going into a new era, its not about hardware anymore, firmware comes first"
Uh, I don't think so. Minus the Nexus crowd, nobody buys their next phone because it is going to have JB, they buy it because it's going to have the newest/fastest dual/quad core, XXMp Camera, the newest 'smart' feature, the bigger screen, etc. Nobody ran out to buy the GS3 because it has ICS...
XDA is about 1-2% (if that) of Android users. And even on XDA, half of the users don't know enough about Android to even matter. Maybe it's somewhat different in India, but my guess is the people you are referring to are just starting to understand what Android/Linux really means, so that isn't really relevant to this discussion.
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I don't think a die hard fan of a flagship phone from Samsung or HTC is gonna buy the new flagship phone if the company changes the OS. I know people care about hardware but that doesn't mean they go totally mad about it, not looking the software at all. Btw, play store access is only for Google/android phones.
Also, nobody bought Gs3 cause it just had a quad core or it had a 8mp camera. If Samsung had bada or maybe android 2.1 on it then believe me it would have been samsung's worst selling phone.
Edit: Will u buy a new i7 3rd Gen laptop if it had windows 2000 and a restriction that u can't change it??? For same price that u buy a normal i7 laptop or even higher.