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Hi guys,
I am newbie to Android smartphones and tablets modding/hacking/ROMdeveloping and I am looking for the correct starting in this experience to optimize my learning curve.
What device should I pick? I am looking for the best compromise between these different factors:
-Large community support availability
-Hacking easiness (meaning a device most open as possible)
-Detailed guides availability
...
Every single advice is appreciated.
Regards
Okay, let's reformulate the problem differently.
Which devices has best community support on xda developers?
A thread in our forum stated that Samsung fascinate has good community support. Could that device be an appropriate starting point?
I appreciate your help xda developers!
It depends on what carrier you're gonna go with. The sprint evo probably has the largest community, looks like the evo 3d will be pretty big too. Not really sure about at&t and T-Mobile. Verizon hasn't had much lately that's been big, the original incredible has a pretty sizeable community, looks like the thunderbolt isn't bad either. Currently the phone to beat is the Samsung galaxy s2, it can only be used on at&t currently but should be coming to all carriers on the next couple months.
No money, i would recommend the sgs and if you have money to spend the sgs2.
Both are awesome devices with a huge and active community behind them.
I appreciate your help K_nivesout and Dark3n.
I gonna process this choices and come back to comment on them and choose one.
Probably this experience would help some people in the future
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Just allow electronic Darwinism to take its course! If someone is taking the piss, they'll soon die out, if people use common sense and don't encourage them
Most devs that I see, Or rather use ROMS from are quite active and very supportive and NEVER even spoke anything about donation. I was happy to donate for a few of them coz it is really worth it.
I think this opinion you speak of might have been due to your ill luck or some pretty bad devs you have encountered.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm saying that your prespective might be due to a unlucky or bad dev (one bad apple) incident.
As far as my phone the Desire Hd is concerned, the developers are still just as helpful and enthusiastic as ever.
There is no developer like a bad or good developer, its because of them 99% of people are using roms without donating, 1 % donates to developers
I know a lot of developer who work on projects for free, but even the developers out there like to drink a beer paid from their projects
-> Donations are welcome!
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
tolis626 said:
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
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Click to collapse
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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Click to collapse
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs
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I totally agree with that.
Archer said:
I totally agree with that.
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Click to collapse
As does XDA, hence the rules at present
This is not a platform to make money from. For anyone who cares, I have made a total of £0.00 from XDA. I don't wish to make personal profit from here.
I spend large numbers of hours on the site, doing stuff behind the scenes. If I was to draw up a "bill" for the past year, it would be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, based on the price I charge for my services.
But I wouldn't ever want to see myself as selling something here. That's not what this site is about! There's plenty of places to sell stuff. If you make your own app, fair enough. If you modify something belonging to someone else, then nope
bwheelies said:
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
Ok, I have been trolling here for sometime and have seen some devs who ask for donations. However, the vast majority just contribute their time and hard work for the betterment of the platform and the community as a whole.
As for slow development, I think a lot of that has to do with the phone. I have the SGS 2 and there is active development for that with a lot of great roms. My wife has the 4g Slide and the development is slightly slower. It all comes down to the popularity of the phone.
If devs make a product good enough for people to pay for then good for them. On the other hand, if they ask for donations but their software is crap then no one will buy it.
It's a free market, let them try.
It is alot of work and it requires a special skill set to do what devs do, so I can appreciate them asking for a couple bucks for their trouble.
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with Cabe24i.See below.
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point isn't whether they are allowed to accept money for their work.They surely should put their creations on sale.And exactly here is where I agree with you.ROMs and kernels aren't their work.As good as someone's modifications can be,it's not new code written by them entirely(except for some patches,etc).While their work is and should be rewarded,it should in no way become mandatory that we pay to use it.It should be optional as it is.It's fair for everyone that way.Those who deserve it will get paid,end of story.
Selling apps on XDA is another story,but it's also completely right to do so,as they could just sell those on the market and be done with it.But it's about applications written anew,not modified ones.Did anyone sell a modified copy of a game?I don't think so.
We should show our appreciation to developers,but they should also show us some respect(I am more than content with what's going on here on the dev side,it's XDA's ungrateful noobs that I'm mad with like most of you here).Fraud is a crime after all.
I can see both sides of that argument actually. Whilst I do think it's unreasonable for a developer to request money for merely tweaking a ROM, it's the same as a painter painting your living room. He's not made you a brand new living room from scratch. He's just painted your existing one. That's similar to a ROM tweaker.
That said, I do understand and abide by the rules - I'm not arguing them. Just playing devil's advocate.
lowandbehold said:
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
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Click to collapse
Not sure if you are asking me. I have a Droid Charge.
F2504x4 said:
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have seen on xda. Judging by this, the developer who posted a no effort ROM in a stagnant phone development scene who says donate and does nothing with the ROM is nothing but a modern day P.T. Barnum.
First of all, you don't have to donate
But I agree with OP it's not done to demand donations to finish work.
If your work is good and you support it well, possibilities for a donation are much higher.
But it is no guarantee for donations.
But isn't respect from others the best payment for your work? That's the reason I do my share for the community
I know its so painfully obvious, but has anyone actually tried to contact samsung to get the development resources we need? Drivers and the such.
Beyond a doubt they left this phone to sink a long time ago, but the sidekick community is die-hard and all we want is the phone we thought we were getting. And we can have that phone, with no added work by Sasung - we have the devs and the will! We only need the way.
It would not be too difficult to draft a polite but demanding business letter/ petition and have all of us send it in. Shoot, if we got the story to the XDA mods we could probably get support site-wide for "dedicated sidekick/android enthusiasts want freedom for their phone - device never allowed upgrade from froyo". You guys might see this as stretching it, but a majority of people on XDA have samsung devices and would hate to see their own development halted by the company.
Strength in numbers. Not to mention, this kind of outcry would show samsung that the sidekick (keyboard devices) are still sought after and will be fought for. Somewhere in our petition should say the resources are just to hold us over until they release the next model which will NOT get treated like the red-headed stepchild the 4G did.
You'd be surprised what a small, vocal group can get done. If anyone has any background on this type of thing, say so. if nobody else steps up I will write it tuesday-Thursday and post it for any revisions, then we can each take a copy and send it. Even a simple facebook page or cheap website would add so much to this cause.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
Tsloble said:
I know its so painfully obvious, but has anyone actually tried to contact samsung to get the development resources we need? Drivers and the such.
Beyond a doubt they left this phone to sink a long time ago, but the sidekick community is die-hard and all we want is the phone we thought we were getting. And we can have that phone, with no added work by Sasung - we have the devs and the will! We only need the way.
It would not be too difficult to draft a polite but demanding business letter/ petition and have all of us send it in. Shoot, if we got the story to the XDA mods we could probably get support site-wide for "dedicated sidekick/android enthusiasts want freedom for their phone - device never allowed upgrade from froyo". You guys might see this as stretching it, but a majority of people on XDA have samsung devices and would hate to see their own development halted by the company.
Strength in numbers. Not to mention, this kind of outcry would show samsung that the sidekick (keyboard devices) are still sought after and will be fought for. Somewhere in our petition should say the resources are just to hold us over until they release the next model which will NOT get treated like the red-headed stepchild the 4G did.
You'd be surprised what a small, vocal group can get done. If anyone has any background on this type of thing, say so. if nobody else steps up I will write it tuesday-Thursday and post it for any revisions, then we can each take a copy and send it. Even a simple facebook page or cheap website would add so much to this cause.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
I'm for it. I think it's a great idea to sign a petition requesting to Samsung at least a test build of Gingerbread. :good:
Agreed broda's we have to do this.:thumbup:
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
I like the idea! I'm not a dev so I wouldn't be able to write the letter, but I can help edit.
I will write up a draft tomorrow after my studies, leaving the appropriate "technical" spots easily editable so that we can get exactly what we need from Samsung per the Devs instruction.
Thank you guys for your support on this, I truly believe good can come of this!
Maybe we can direct them to our sidekick wishlist thread while we're at it ;D
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
I would definitely help to, but English is not my main language. So i would try to help with the petition!
If samsung releases the driver source code I can make a stable CM6 and a BETA CM7 for this community. Butttttttt.....I don't see it happening.
Im up for it, count me in. Sure never doubt the power and determination of an online community especially an open source one like xda
I doubt anything would happen for sk4g. We did similar things in the sgs4g community. Samsung is more like honey badger...
Of course we should try, but i'm not sure that Samsung will help us after 2 years of doing nothing....
I'll post it up within the half hour - this week was busier than expected. And unless Samsung completely destroyed everything relating to our device, it should be as simple as a developers release right?
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
Tsloble said:
I'll post it up within the half hour - this week was busier than expected. And unless Samsung completely destroyed everything relating to our device, it should be as simple as a developers release right?
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup
Here is draft one. Feel free to download the doc and make adjustments. Let's just be sure that the majority of our community agree on the final product and then we can take action. I will be sending out the story to Gizmodo/Engadget and stuff too... If this isn't an underdog tech story I don't know what is. You guys might think that's over the top, but it's just not right for a company to abandon their customer and it is never too late to make amends.
To Whom It May Concern:
This is a formal petition regarding the Samsung SGH-T839 device (T-Mobile Sidekick 4G).
We, the loyal consumers (and other), request through this petition that you kindly release development information & resources regarding the SGH-T839. This request is being made due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device since its launch April 20th, 2011. Please note that this device shipped with Android Operating System (Android from this point) Version 2.2 “Froyo” which was released May 20th, 2010. This is despite the fact that the SGH-T839 launch date was over four months after the release of Android Version 2.3 “Gingerbread” (released December 6th, 2010).
Not only was the device shipped with an outdated operating system, but a Kies / Over the Air Update to Gingerbread was never released. This came as a shock to all loyal consumers of the SGH-T839 as Samsung continued to update other devices to the new Android version and release new devices with Gingerbread already installed. In addition to the lack of support, the SGH-T839 had many bugs such as a keystroke logger within the system, the keyboard software missed keystrokes, and frequent Force-Close of applications.
These problems, amongst others, have been thoroughly logged by the XDA Developers Community (www.xda-developers.com). Amazingly, there is a large community of SGH-T839 users that are dedicated to the device and have managed to correct many of the software-related defects that were shipped with the device. This petition requests that Samsung release the following development items to the XDA Development Community, that the loyal consumer of their product may be able to enjoy everything that the SGH-T839 is capable of:
We urge you not to overlook this petition, as it is being circulated amongst several online communities that are dedicated to the Android Open Source Project for support. The influence of these communities over Samsung’s broader handheld-device customer base runs very deep; the XDA Developers Community alone has over 4.7 million registered users. We, the loyal consumer (and other), anticipate a prompt response to this matter. We also look forward to increased involvement from Samsung pertaining to the Android Open Source Project and hopefully a future device with similar form-factor of the SGH-T839.
Sincerely,
Edit 2: Was just thinking maybe "Release source to XDA community should be create developers release pack or something?
Tsloble said:
Here is draft one. Feel free to download the doc and make adjustments. Let's just be sure that the majority of our community agree on the final product and then we can take action. I will be sending out the story to Gizmodo/Engadget and stuff too... If this isn't an underdog tech story I don't know what is. You guys might think that's over the top, but it's just not right for a company to abandon their customer and it is never too late to make amends.
To Whom It May Concern:
This is a formal petition regarding the Samsung SGH-T839 device (T-Mobile Sidekick 4G).
We, the loyal consumers (and other), request through this petition that you kindly release development information & resources regarding the SGH-T839. This request is being made due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device since its launch April 20th, 2011. Please note that this device shipped with Android Operating System (Android from this point) Version 2.2 “Froyo” which was released May 20th, 2010. This is despite the fact that the SGH-T839 launch date was over four months after the release of Android Version 2.3 “Gingerbread” (released December 6th, 2010).
Not only was the device shipped with an outdated operating system, but a Kies / Over the Air Update to Gingerbread was never released. This came as a shock to all loyal consumers of the SGH-T839 as Samsung continued to update other devices to the new Android version and release new devices with Gingerbread already installed. In addition to the lack of support, the SGH-T839 had many bugs such as a keystroke logger within the system, the keyboard software missed keystrokes, and frequent Force-Close of applications.
These problems, amongst others, have been thoroughly logged by the XDA Developers Community (www.xda-developers.com). Amazingly, there is a large community of SGH-T839 users that are dedicated to the device and have managed to correct many of the software-related defects that were shipped with the device. This petition requests that Samsung release the following development items to the XDA Development Community, that the loyal consumer of their product may be able to enjoy everything that the SGH-T839 is capable of:
We urge you not to overlook this petition, as it is being circulated amongst several online communities that are dedicated to the Android Open Source Project for support. The influence of these communities over Samsung’s broader handheld-device customer base runs very deep; the XDA Developers Community alone has over 4.7 million registered users. We, the loyal consumer (and other), anticipate a prompt response to this matter. We also look forward to increased involvement from Samsung pertaining to the Android Open Source Project and hopefully a future device with similar form-factor of the SGH-T839.
Sincerely,
Edit 2: Was just thinking maybe "Release source to XDA community should be create developers release pack or something?
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Click to collapse
I think we should ask for the release source for devoleping
I do not believe any of the official ROMs had the keystroke print statements enabled... someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not sure if I understand what you are asking Samsung for. Any partially complete work toward GB they might have laying around? Not to curse our chances, but I think they are not likely to release source for proprietary drivers.
Be very clear about what you're asking for. They might seriously consider one such request, if it is well reasoned, and within their power to grant.
One other thing to consider is sending this petition to T-Mobile as well. They can exert considerably more pressure on Samsung.
I left the "specific request" blank. It goes at the end of the 2nd to last paragraph after the colon. That's why it looks like I didn't ask for anything. If someone with the knowledge wants to give that list, it can be added and the other revisions can be made.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
Good first draft. Keep in mind your audience, though. We're unlikely to get Samsung to help us by insulting them. For example, "due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device" should be replaced with a different reason. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Maybe something about how the device has great potential, especially with the physical keyboard, but has been limited by its operating system. Speaking of keyboards, didn't pretty much all or most ROMs at the time come with the so-called key-logger? Also, keep in mind that Samsung and T-Mobile have no interest in supporting the Sidekick because they don't make any more money off it. They make money by getting people to upgrade to new phones. So whatever we ask them has to be easy for them, like just releasing to developers whatever they have lying around that isn't proprietary. Lastly, it's a bit misleading to say there are X million XDA members. The vast majority of them couldn't care less about the SK; I'm sure the SK community is rather small. Maybe highlight this fact: there are a few of us developers who love the SK as a development machine but our hands are tied because we don't have the code, etc. etc.
marathonjon said:
Good first draft. Keep in mind your audience, though. We're unlikely to get Samsung to help us by insulting them. For example, "due to the absolute lack of support and development for this device" should be replaced with a different reason. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Maybe something about how the device has great potential, especially with the physical keyboard, but has been limited by its operating system. Speaking of keyboards, didn't pretty much all or most ROMs at the time come with the so-called key-logger? Also, keep in mind that Samsung and T-Mobile have no interest in supporting the Sidekick because they don't make any more money off it. They make money by getting people to upgrade to new phones. So whatever we ask them has to be easy for them, like just releasing to developers whatever they have lying around that isn't proprietary. Lastly, it's a bit misleading to say there are X million XDA members. The vast majority of them couldn't care less about the SK; I'm sure the SK community is rather small. Maybe highlight this fact: there are a few of us developers who love the SK as a development machine but our hands are tied because we don't have the code, etc. etc.
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Click to collapse
Totally agree with this.
T-Mobile knows that they have everything because of loyal customers, not to mention how many of the hundreds of thousands of people who owned Sidekicks. Samsung understands this which is obviously why they decided to pick up the device two years ago.
Play this to our advantage. Tug on their heartstrings, so to speak.
Yeah, I agree. Haha I guess this letter wasn't the place to let my frustrations out ;P
Sent from my SGH-T839 using xda app-developers app
Hey guys,
I have been an active member in the i9500 forum for quite some time now. I'm proud of the way our existing developers have made us a usable, in fact almost stable CM11 ROM. I applaud them for their genuine efforts. But I recently got the Nexus 5 and previously had the Galaxy S3 i9300. Being an avid flasher, I cant help but feel dissatisfied with the level of development we have for our current device.
So what I propose is this. Let's request developers to come and develop for us. Let's send mails, post in other forums, tweet to them and do whatever it takes. We have a solid base in CM already. I'm sure we can have at least some devs who'd be interested in coming and developing and look at this device as a challenge. I have already started this process with inviting Yank (those with S3 would be familiar with his work). He says he's bogged down with other devices but I'm sure if enough of us request him, he'll help us with his work.
Lastly, I'd like to thank @Alberto96, @runedrune, @intervigil, @AndreiLux, @al_iraqi, @iamsachin and everyone else who has contributed to this device.
Please post your thoughts or comments below. Let's take this initiative to make our device supported by maximum number of developers.
Sent from my GT-I9500 using xda app-developers app
I agree but i think we should find the best developer's in the whole forum and ask them if they would like to help us if he wants then we should donate to get him an i9500 for the work
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk
Let's bring it to the notice of developers of AOKP, Slim ROMs, PAC and others that we have an almost stable CM 11 base rom. I'm sure they'd be interested in supporting another device.
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What exactly do you want as "development "? I keep seeing such complaints and mostly it's just hot air without ever any concrete feature request or technical insight in what's being demanded.
We don't need development for the sake of development. Other forums are riddled with crap upon crap of ROMs and stuff with everybody doing their own thing, and it's 80% nonsense and useless.
Then there's the nature and demographic of the userbase on this device; which in my opinion leaves much to be desired. I single-handedly brought up all the kernel stuff myself from scratch, but it feels like it didn't matter anyway because there's no audience for it save the few souls who really care. Not to mention <5 donations in the last 5 months, which will certainly cause me to sell this device in the next few months instead of keeping it so that I can offset the next purchase. The US/EU community was much more fun to work with.
So again, what do you really want? There's by now a bug-free AOSP tree and I'm keeping a fully featured kernel up. If you want development then work with the existing people, because frankly asking other devs to come in and magically fulfill your expectations seems overly dismissive of the existing options and reeks a bit of ignorance towards the notion of developments in general.
AndreiLux said:
What exactly do you want as "development "? I keep seeing such complaints and mostly it's just hot air without ever any concrete feature request or technical insight in what's being demanded.
We don't need development for the sake of development. Other forums are riddled with crap upon crap of ROMs and stuff with everybody doing their own thing, and it's 80% nonsense and useless.
Then there's the nature and demographic of the userbase on this device; which in my opinion leaves much to be desired. I single-handedly brought up all the kernel stuff myself from scratch, but it feels like it didn't matter anyway because there's no audience for it save the few souls who really care. Not to mention <5 donations in the last 5 months, which will certainly cause me to sell this device in the next few months instead of keeping it so that I can offset the next purchase. The US/EU community was much more fun to work with.
So again, what do you really want? There's by now a bug-free AOSP tree and I'm keeping a fully featured kernel up. If you want development then work with the existing people, because frankly asking other devs to come in and magically fulfill your expectations seems overly dismissive of the existing options and reeks a bit of ignorance towards the notion of developments in general.
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I respect your work. And I am actually amongst the handful people who use your kernel. But that doesn't mean that I'm happy with having one custom kernel and one custom rom. Every rom has its unique feature and every developer has his own signature. I love PA hybrid and Halo, I love AOKP ribbons and I love The Real Dark Slim. That's why I want these developers to come and develop for us. I thank you for your work and wish you don't abandon this device either. As for donations, I'm sure it's not donations that these developers work for. It's just a reward for them if someone donates.
No disrespect but everyone has their own point of view. Let's not generalize. There are plenty of people using this device. There's as good a user base for this device as there has been for other Sammy devices. Lack of development has in fact deterred people from active participation. Every day I see new and new people commenting on threads of cm 11 because finally we have a stable rom.
If you are offended by something I said, I would suggest you don't follow this thread.
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Get cash from your hobbies, not the cash that is used to be your hobbies. I dunno what the better english for this as I'm not native speaker. I suggest you andrei to make synapse as a freemium app (some basic features of your kernel is free and for other you must pay or purchase full version apl to configuring it) or make it a full paid app/not free, and it'll give you sum of cash if you doing this as your main source of $. Just my 2cent. Dont flame me.
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hotheabilly said:
Get cash from your hobbies, not the cash that is used to be your hobbies. I dunno what the better english for this as I'm not native speaker. I suggest you andrei to make synapse as a freemium app (some basic features of your kernel is free and for other you must pay or purchase full version apl to configuring it) or make it a full paid app/not free, and it'll give you sum of cash if you doing this as your main source of $. Just my 2cent. Dont flame me.
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That will not happen due to Google country restriction policy, simple as that.
I'm just justifying why developers won't come to this device from my own experience and perspective. To even consider getting this late into the game makes even less sense.
---------- Post added 19th January 2014 at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was 18th January 2014 at 11:52 PM ----------
modyt said:
But that doesn't mean that I'm happy with having one custom kernel and one custom rom.
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I understand the ROM perspective, but still you don't really say what you want for the other.
modyt said:
It's just a reward for them if someone donates.
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Of course it is. It also means that it's unrewarding if nobody does. Like I said, this is plainly due to the demographic of the userbase. It is very very different from the S3/N2, believe me.
well if moderators if i am doing this wrong then take down this threat. i don't know its a bit off topic ques but still its kinda important for further development
Well this is sort of a calling back for the devs those are working in their part time and full time for making android such a wonderful community. XDA and Android has gone very far in bringing the best experience to the users and using android a fun..
well now coming on the request.
I am from a small community of HTC Wildfire Buzz. its a small android phone that was came on 2010. it was a low end device but got great potential in those days. well at that time the our famliy was big 1 and we had such a number of developers. i myself not a developer, but i can say we had such a legend phone. we never been able to gain kernel 3 for our phone but still without GPU we been able to get 4.0 of android working properly on this phone. even HTC has retired this phone from 2.2 but still running 4.0 flawlessly without GPU without that much lag is such a remarkable thing. i don;t know that much people had achieved this thing on other phones. now we are running out of devs people bought new phones and we just have ports. and from source we have few devs those are working on with this phone. so i want mainly devs to visit the threat of development of this little willy and make give some of their valuable time so that we can have the last spark alive. because i know this little fellow phone deserve some more time.
so leaving in hope that i will get good response from devs.. :good: