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Hi Everyone,
Ive been on a bit of a mission with T-mobile and have been in touch with the directors office, they are under the impression that nothing has been locked down on the phone in rc7/rc30 that would limit the use of the phone from a development standpoint.
Ive given them a few examples of things that cant be done but they refuse to do anything (other than cancel my contact if i want) as im only one person who is complaining.
I know everyone runnning rc30v1.2 and rc8v.12 is ok atm, but could EVERONE please send a little email of complaint. Just explaining that you are unhappy that they have locked down the phone and denied us root.
cl&[email protected]
They say that if they get more complaints then something will be done
ITS WORTH A SHOT ISNT IT?
PS... If anyone wants to cancel their contract in the uk because of the lack of access, call 01707 315000 and ask to talk to Leah within the Directors team about your G1 problem. I explained that i couldnt get my apps working because i couldnt edit/add files to system directories.
They should offer to cancel it, it worked for me
Yeah, it's worth a shot, although from past experience with T-Mobile this may be akin to trying to extract blood from a stone
I tried doing the same thing after I got my G1 (before anyone figured out the hole in RC29). I found the people over at T-Mobile USA are just as clueless. As soon as you mention the words Android or G1, they instantly transfer you to a different support queue. I tried to explain what root access was and they didn't have a clue what I was talking about.
I found that here in the UK also, these people work in the directors team and so far have not fobbed me off.
They dont claim to be technical but are at least talking to the T-mobile developers about this. They have raised my concerns with the UK G1 manager, i think my case just needs a little more oomph from others complaining.
I've already called HTC, G1 support, and the PDA/Smartphone support ppl. None of them were willing to even try to understand the issue.
T-mobile have just called me and have advised that we should expect a statement about the issue by the end of the week. The issue is now with board members apparently
Maybee they are actuclly starting to understand??
You should have them email. At least that way it leaves a paper trail.
SGTDavePwnage said:
T-mobile have just called me and have advised that we should expect a statement about the issue by the end of the week. The issue is now with board members apparently
Maybee they are actuclly starting to understand??
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That's very interesting that T-Mobile is even considering the idea of allowing root access, to the point where it would be an executive decision by the board members. Do you have any other information on this aside from your first post? Can anyone else confirm this?
i phoned tmobile uk today and asked why i couldnt get root on my tc5-rc8.
and i had a long talk with the guy and he said he had a email about this issue
and went throught a few things with me on my phone. and then he said he would phone me back tomorrow with someone that new more about the g1 then the tec support staff. and he would be able to give me more answers about it.
qtronix
Cool
Sounds like my insessant *****ing at T-mobile support might have gotten us somewhere?
At least techies are not fobbing people off at the moment.
Could you please concider sending an email to the address i posted, just so they are aware that others are miffed.
******This is a copy of the email i sent to the directors team******
Leah
Many thanks for your call....
As t-mobile dont seem to see/understand the problem I have given the contact details of the director team to a group of developers so that you can hopefully get a few more calls about this. Please believe me that I am not the only person who has these concerns, but when people call tech support about this they are simply fobbed off by people who are not trained/do not understand the issue.
I would like to point out an error with t-mobiles response that they have in no way locked down the phone so that it is detremental for putting developed software onto the phone.
Please see a few examples of how the new RC8 Software limits Developers :-
1. Say I wanted my screen to automatically rotate without wanting to open the keyboard, this is simply a matter of editing offset: 1104724 within /system/framework/framework.odex to 0x0F001246.
I could do this on the old software but not on the new RC8
2. Say i wanted to update the web browser to do the same, this would mean editing the origional browser source code released by Google and putting it on my phone. Again, this was possible with root access on RC7 but has now been made impossible on the new RC8.
3. Say i wanted to make a tethering application that allows me to use my G1 as a modem to my PC (i know this would cost me money on my contract for data transfer) but I might want to do it so that i can connect to my workplace vpn to fix something. This was Doable on RC7, but now is not.
4. The G1 currently has no way of clearing cache for the marketplace, this again was doable on RC7 but not on RC8
5. The G1 has a limited ammount of space to install applications. It would be a good idea if we could install applications to our SD memory Cards, but again we cant do this because of the new software.
The above examples are just some simple things developers are working on that would benefit the phone, but we cant develop them and put them on the phone.
Basically anything that means editing a system file / writing a file to a system directory is now impossible.
Please understand that developers are not trying to take over the world or ruin the phone. We are simply trying to make the phone do what we want / improve the features.
This is how OpenSource works. Everyone has access to the Source code so that it can if neccecary be customised/edited to improve things for everyone.
The new software has made it impossible for programs that interact with the main system files or require extra files to be put in a system folder, to work.
Developers understand why the phone RC7 software was unsafe in the way it ran commands, we understand why you fixed the command running problem, but instead of fixing the issue properly you have just locked down root access?? Why??
If the new software in no way limits what developers can do, then why when you search on the net are so many people “Jailbreaking” their phones to get the access they require.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081105-android-liberation-t-mobile-g1-jailbroken.html
Can i draw your attention to
"In contrast, the G1 has been developed by the Open Handset Alliance project. It's extremely unlikely that this alliance, which is committed to an open platform, will engage in the same kinds of protective shenanigans that Apple has resorted to. The Android philosophy states that "anyone can contribute to Android and influence its direction. That means that anyone can download, build, and run the code needed to create a complete mobile device."
So why jailbreak an already-open device? One big jailbreak advantage is that it allows you to bypass the G1's internal storage. Until now, you were limited by the G1's built-in memory for installing and running programs. With the jailbreak, you can install applications onto a local SD card and run them from the card. Running low on memory? Just swap cards in and out.
Jailbreaking also allows you to use low-level tools that run in the background. Want your G1 to call home and report your location every 20 minutes? A simple Unix process, called a daemon, can handle that for you. You can set daemons up to remind you of appointments, to scan for nearby wireless devices and more. The world of handheld computing doesn't begin or end with graphic interfaces. There's an enormously rich world of possibilities available through command line processes.
Most importantly, jailbreaking gives you complete control of your system from the bottom up. It lets you stop thinking of your phone as a handheld gadget and start using it as a fully-capable Unix platform. "
Please could you explain how T-mobile are of the opinion that they have not limited developers with the above examples in mind.
The G1 is being sold as a Developer friendly OpenSource Phone. How can you claim this is developer friendly when the software severely limits what developers can do?
Are T-mobile saying that the phone was never supposed to allow users this access and that the RC7 root access was a mistake?
Eagerly Awaiting your response..
******
Well written, although I would have DEFINITELY left out the part about tethering the phone.
vr24 said:
Well written, although I would have DEFINITELY left out the part about tethering the phone.
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I did think about that, but then i reconcidered as we already have tetherbot which works without root.
Suppose we will just have to see if anything comes of it
SGTDavePwnage said:
I did think about that, but then i reconcidered as we already have tetherbot which works without root.
Suppose we will just have to see if anything comes of it
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Click to collapse
you can always call t-mobile and say that after you updated the phone it is now:
constantly feezing, apps are running slow, and at times you can not connect to internet.
also tell them that you tried a factory reset and it did not help (make up a story that you have friend that has a lot of app and his phone runs faster than you phone with no apps installed)
if you have insurance they will send you one for free, you just have to return your old phone,
i believe they are still sending out rc29 for replacements as of now.
friend and cousin tried it and it worked.
might be worth a shot
Just got this in my inbox:
"Thank you for letting us know of your concerns with the 'open source' and 'root access' on your G1 mobile phone. We really do appreciate your comments about this.
We're aware that there are concerns in relation to this and our leadership teams in the UK and the USA are currently reviewing your comments and our position. We plan to provide you and other customers with similar concerns, with a response early next week, which should answer your concerns. I'll be in touch with you then.
Your comments are extremely valuable to us Mr * and I'm grateful for your patience while we look into this. I'd like to thank you personally for your co-operation.
In the mean time I hope you enjoy your weekend.
Kind regards
Leah Young
Directors' Office Co-ordinator
T-Mobile (UK)"
Of course, their answer could be anything from "f*ck off" to "yes, we'd love to embrace the openness of android with both arms, here everyone, have root!" so we'll all have to keep our fingers crossed 'til monday.
Well I just hope they release an update with options that allow us to turn off all background services (myfaves) and unwanted datatraffic (or actuall prevent overriding options when roaming).
How did that dead horse like the beating?
Perhaps a dead horse. Could it be that Tmo has now figured out that with root access, it won't take long for people like the coders at XDA to fully jailbreak the device to the point that voIP will be easy for any user to obtain? Are they just trying to protect their ability to profit off of voice traffic?
rynosaur said:
Perhaps a dead horse. Could it be that Tmo has now figured out that with root access, it won't take long for people like the coders at XDA to fully jailbreak the device to the point that voIP will be easy for any user to obtain? Are they just trying to protect their ability to profit off of voice traffic?
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Hummm... I think ALL wireless providers are threatened by VOIP but the main reason root access was blocked was due to bad press mainly by tons of articles stating that there is a huge security risk and a flaw was found with Android which could let remote users attack someone's device...blah blah blah and so forth. That pretty much scared T-Mobile and Google which hated to have bad press so close to the G1 just being released and were forced to correct this issue. The only problem with that protection came with closing alot of freedom for the G1 and may happen to alot of more Android-based devices in the future, I'm afraid... Maybe Google will realize that there are other ways to protect mobile hijacking (which is extremely rare anyways) by creating some type of built-in firewall software instead?
rynosaur said:
Perhaps a dead horse. Could it be that Tmo has now figured out that with root access, it won't take long for people like the coders at XDA to fully jailbreak the device to the point that voIP will be easy for any user to obtain? Are they just trying to protect their ability to profit off of voice traffic?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root is not necessary to build a voip app. Fact is, G1 launched with a skype-compatible voip app called iSkoot. Look it up.
SGTDavePwnage said:
Cool
Sounds like my insessant *****ing at T-mobile support might have gotten us somewhere?
At least techies are not fobbing people off at the moment.
Could you please concider sending an email to the address i posted, just so they are aware that others are miffed.
******This is a copy of the email i sent to the directors team******
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Click to collapse
i wont quote the entire email because its big. but you sir are very well spoken, great email!
Hello everyone. I've a sort of proposal for the developers here, but before I get into that let me first briefly introduce myself:
I'm a communication designer for print, user interface, and illustration that completely advocates everything Android. I've been lurking the Dream development forums here for quite some time, trying to keep up-to-date with the latest ROMs, apps, etc., etc and I fully appreciate everything that goes on here and the endeavors that you devs put yourself through. Amazing stuff, really.
One thing I've noticed is that there are a slew of third-party / beta apps all over these boards, and other places on the internet as well. More often than not, I find myself scouring the cloud just to find a link for these non-market apps, and I usually get referred to them via some obscure site through another site. Despite getting the .apk file or ROM in the end, the process can get to be a bit tedious; especially for incoming users and those new to the Android platform.
My proposal is this: A website with a simple and clean user interface that has direct and succinct navigation with the purpose of consolidating and listing third-party / beta non-market applications into an easy access database. This website database would link these applications and have them be easily downloaded and installed via the Android browser, without having to mount the device.
I've actually come up with a fully-functional concept site, did the branding and everything for it, and also registered a short domain name for quick access while on your G1 or whatever Android device.
Navigate to: http://anda.pk to see what I had in mind, and how the overall layout/concept of the site would work.
I uploaded several .apk files I had backed up as examples for you to see how the database section would function. I also took into account the resolution of most Android phones and made the .apk application database section fit perfectly in the Android browser when in portrait mode right when you the load the site to ensure the best possible user experience when installing these third party apps. When you scroll to the right, you'll see info on what the site is about, and in the footer there are links to the FAQ, the about section, contact, etc.
I had also noted in the about link in the footer that the applications hosted on the download section are in no way accredited to the site, and that credit goes to their rightful developers. My being a communication designer has had the idea of peer collaboration engrained, and as such I give credit it where credit is due.
That said, I hope you guys here and the developers collaborate with me on on this site, possibly help contribute apks, and agree to them being hosted. If anything, I do hope you just embrace the concept, which originally was just going to be a reference for myself and my friends whom I've turned away from the iPhone, S60, and WinMo in favor of Android. I figured since I know the Android community is only going to get bigger, this website concept of mine could be a decent resource to have bookmarked.
Appreciate you reading this wall of text! Do hope to hear some feedback, so let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
Cheers.
I think this is a fabulous idea...automated version control would go over very well -- i.e. yum update
you should post up bits that you need help with and have folks contact you.
also..I love the logo!
question: do you propose a rating system or a review prior to listing type of approach or something new to keep this resource trustworthy?
Been following this on SA and twitter and it's a great idea.
Having the devs here on board would be a fantastic way to get something solid on the go. It's the kind of thing that can really help android become more hackable and useable for the average user...and it just make things easier for the rest of us.
Sounds good to me.
thelilliandivide said:
the applications hosted on the download section are in no way accredited to the site
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Click to collapse
Credit and accreditation are different things. To be accredited is to be given credentials or official approval. I think you meant "credited".
Sounds like a GREAT idea.
My opinion: The color scheme hurts. Love the logo.
i like the logo and the idea. I think the site should be more mobile friendly, or even better, an application for android that can work like the official market. I could help with that part if an application is going to be built.
camalot said:
i like the logo and the idea. I think the site should be more mobile friendly, or even better, an application for android that can work like the official market. I could help with that part if an application is going to be built.
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i second that.. it should also have update checks if possible
I was going to complain that I didn't like your site layout, but in portrait mode you only see the left side which lists the apps. I like it.
One thing you might have to be leary of is dealing with apps that are considered warez unless your going to spend the time to verify every app that is uploaded or there has to a method in place.
As well there should be some kind of version control in place. You know what works on 1.1 and what works on 1.5. Obviously almost everybody within the next few weeks/months should be on 1.5, but will all the older apps run on 1.5 or does it really matter or does anybody care? The downloader will care.
CBowley said:
Sounds like a GREAT idea.
My opinion: The color scheme hurts. Love the logo.
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Click to collapse
Seconded. The text is much too light. A darker charcoal shade would be much better.
If the site gets an apk wrapper (a la FBook) version checking would be rather easy. Set up the directory tree something like this /downloads/WiFiTether/1.2.3.apk and just have the apk compare filenames. If the file names don't match, it needs to install the update.
EDIT: Now following your progress on twitter.
Some solid input. I'll play around with the color scheme and make some changes later this evening once I get back from class. And I actually do plan on making a mobile wrapper eventually, but as it stands as far as the concept layout goes, the site is best used when in portrait mode for easiest functionality. The rest of the site is to be considered supplemental. I do however, have a lot of things I eventually want to integrate; application tags, search, possibility of user uploaded apk files, etc. But for right now, I'm trying to keep the general site as simple as possible to make the workload on my end less stressful (graduating in 2 weeks).
bahnburner said:
If the site gets an apk wrapper (a la FBook) version checking would be rather easy. Set up the directory tree something like this /downloads/WiFiTether/1.2.3.apk and just have the apk compare filenames. If the file names don't match, it needs to install the update.
EDIT: Now following your progress on twitter.
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Did not know how that version checker worked. Thanks. I'll re-work the apk directory scheme akin to that later tonight for when I do eventually get the wrapper up.
thelilliandivide said:
Did not know how that version checker worked. Thanks. I'll re-work the apk directory scheme akin to that later tonight for when I do eventually get the wrapper up.
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That's not necessarily how most version checks work, but that's the simplest method I could think of, and probably one of the easiest to implement.
alapapa said:
I think this is a fabulous idea...automated version control would go over very well -- i.e. yum update
you should post up bits that you need help with and have folks contact you.
also..I love the logo!
question: do you propose a rating system or a review prior to listing type of approach or something new to keep this resource trustworthy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! And I feel I might need some help in the future as far as implementing the features that I want to get working. But I'm not quite sure I understand your question. Are you referring to how I choose which applications get posted onto the site?
i'm a graphic designer and web designer, i'll throw in a helping hand if you want, pm me or whatever.
(think about an android based layout to bring it to the phone like Cough*cydia*cough
very cool and much needed
Xda-dev is great, but there is alot of stuff thats not on the market and they have shown to bow down to the tmobs pressure(ie: tether app) so another place to get apps would be great, and your weppage is beautiful and looks like it would be very finger friendly on the g1, but there is a basic model in linux of repositories(which is about what ur doing) and a simple app to d/l them maybe somebody could just make a market.apk with a modded addy, depending on how much is known about the market and its inner workings... it would be nice to do it as it has been always done....but as I stated above your webdesign is very nice and would work well in the native browser(im heading there now on my g1)
bhang
not a bad idea. I think this is great for all verified apps that are pulled from market...
I really like this idea. Go for it.
Just one (stupid) remark about the logo... it's like it has a big nose and a :-| expression... sorry
apetit said:
I really like this idea. Go for it.
Just one (stupid) remark about the logo... it's like it has a big nose and a :-| expression... sorry
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Haha, I just noticed that actually. Now it's all I see. But yeah, I'm hoping to have a few more apps to upload by the end of next week. Revisions to the site are imminent once I get out of this last class.
I love the idea. One bookmark to check up on all the good non-market apps will be much easier than having several bookmarked threads.
Some applications may benefit from having tags such as [beta], [stable], [experimental], [contains-ads], etc.
As others have mentioned once/if user uploads are implemented an app approval system will be crucial to keep the spam at bay. I can see this really taking off.
im a supporter
zgmf-x322a said:
im a supporter
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+1 this sounds like a great idea, there was something like this for apps for the dash,mda & sda.
Hi everybody, I got my 1st WM device 2 weeks ago, and wherever I went, I found links to this forum. Since then I found so many great applications here (and I haven't even done a systematic search), so thanks a lot for this cool place!
One thing is missing badly for me though: On my old Symbian 3rd I was asked every time an application wanted to access the internet (and also write/read data). I could block it, allow it once or permanently. So almost exactly the same I have on my desktop with Sunbelt.
Now on WM, it seems to be totally common that every application can access the net as it likes to, without any kind of user confirmation. And I really don't feel comfortable about it. Who knows an application doesn't scan my phonebook or other personal data and upload it somewhere without me even knowing about it?!
So I did lots of searches, and the "best" I found was "Airscanner Mobile Firewall". Unfortunately though, it lacks application-based rules. You can only block E-Mails completely, or ICMP, or... But it doesn't protect you from installed software going online is it pleases.
Apart from that, there seem to be no tools for this at all. There are call blockers or tools that cut off internet completely, but no tools to control web access based on application. To be honest, I'm totally surprised by this, since there is thousands of apps for WM for anything else. It doesn't even seem to be a topic that concerns lots of WM users, while the creators of Symbian obviously took it quite serious.
I know I could have posted this in the "ideas for apps" thread, but first I wanted to check I didn't miss any existing software.
Thanks for any hints!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382660&highlight=firewall
Rudegar said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382660&highlight=firewall
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Tak for the reply, but as I said...
I did lots of searches, and the "best" I found was "Airscanner Mobile Firewall". Unfortunately though, it lacks application-based rules. You can only block E-Mails completely, or ICMP, or... But it doesn't protect you from installed software going online is it pleases.
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Click to collapse
Well, if this seems to be of no interest to anybody, I guess it means there never have been any cases of spyware on WM yet ever?
Is it not technically possible for an application to read the entire memory of a WM device and send it anywhere without the user taking notice? Let alone install a keylogger, reset the device and other evil stuff?
not that I know off and the virus are also a handful which are more likely proof of concept then real malware
hi all!
please note: i am nothing near a professional user or even coder! i rooted my phone and i install custom roms on it, and thats about it. in addition to that i am concerned about my privacy. for me it started with the LBE Privacy Guard from the play store, it was quite nice until it stopped working, and made my phone stuck in a boot loop...
i have read and searched a lot of stuff before i decided to write this. but i havent found an easy and understandable how to. maybe that is because there no easy way to this. please go easy on me if there is already a thread for this...
i just installed openpdroid on my samsung galaxy s+ (i9001) and that is just because user bululu has made a patch for the rom i am using (cm10.1 from user davidteri) - thanks to both of them! i installed the patch with cwm (clockworkmod) and afterwards i was wondering there is no privacy setting in my menu or anything that would let me set up permissions. but from all the stuff i was reading before i figured i will need some kind of gui (not sure this is the right word - that goes for most of the stuff, but please correct me where u can, i will try and learn) so i installed 'pdroid manager' from the play store. that would finally let me set permissions for the apps! so far, so good. i am now using openpdroid...
should be all good at this point u might think, but this is where my questions begin ^^ f.ex:
is this the best solution atm? are there more solutions? what are the differences? what can u recommend?
furthermore i try to figure out how to encrypt email on android. most things i read point to k9 mail and using agp (or apg? is this the same?). i did some research on that topic an it seems to be the 'android privacy guard'. more questions here too...
it seems to be out of development, since the last changes are from 25.12.2010. is there a newer alternative for that or something i missed? or maybe it is still the thing to use or it is quite finished in its current state?!? but i dont wanna clog my device with old or unsupported software until i am 99% sure on what to do...
so basically i am asking if there is a nice and user friendly (with images) 'how to' for this kind of stuff i was just missing or is it just impossible (at the current state) to do such thing? if both answers are 'no' i'd like to start something like that, of course with your help that is...
because it seems the info i found is not coherent, its all bits and pieces one needs to bring together (in the right order and with compatible software). at least thats what it feels like for me as non-professional user and linux noob. i have no problem with puzzling stuff together but i also would like to help others who would like to do increase their security and get different opinions on whats the best way to do some things...
so if any of u got an opinion to any of the above please let me know! and help or links would be greatly appreciated! lets see if we can bring some things together and make our devices, our communication and our data more secure! and please note: this should not be device specific, my device and rom was just for information and for better understanding my starting point. this should be as broadly defined and open minded as possible. so everybody could partake and make use of it...
thanks for reading!
kind regards
bad1080
Does a comprehensive and plain english list exist anywhere that tells who is who and why they have a security certificate installed on my android phone?
I've asked this before and never found an answer. I find it odd that it isn't questioned and recently when installing FoxFi, it was made more poignant when many became up in arms about the FoxFi cert and the notification that some unknown entity could be monitioring activity. FoxFi is pretty clear about why that cert is there and I can't say that for the factory installed ~200 certs.
Also, is there a comprehensive list anywhere that tells what factory installed and system apps do? Many have very obscure names and even names which are quite misleading upon actually discovering what they really do. I'm sure I can't be the only one that would like to know exactly which apps are safe to freeze, disable or uninstall and upon doing so, what functionality will be lost or what other apps will no longer work, if any.
I think Google needs to step things up in these two areas so people can actually know. The work in the area of app permissions is a step in that direction, but, still a long way from full and forthright disclosure aimed at educating all android device owners.
Thanks for any direction you can provide.
Hmmmmm.... its merely about the desire to know why every android I've owned for coming on ten years now has security certs installed belonging to the DOD, Japanese Government, Experia, Equifax and many more that I have no idea who they are unless I want to research each and everyone of them. Even doing so in most cases still doesn't reveal why those entities have a cert on my phone and what it actually means. I wonder what happens if they are removed and why they are there in the first place.
As far as the many pre-installed apps that I can't imagine many people having a clue as to why they are installed or what they actually do, well, that kinda speaks for itself as well.
Nobody else wonders or does everyone else but me already know?
However, in the mean time, I'll refine my quest to changing permissions and any insightful threads on that for dummies would be appreciated.
Thanks
Hi
Thanks for writing to us at XDA Assist. Unfortunately I can't find anything relating to your question on XDA, it's probably best to ask here:
Android Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting
No response in two days, thread closed.