Related
Hi all,
I've posted about this trash before but now it is really annoying me.
We all do our work here for free and for the better good of the community and those who use these PDA's.
I am so sick of people abusing our work and selling it on Ebay without even a thank you let alone any form of re-imbursement for the hard work we do.
I know it's not piracy, and what we do here is pretty much open-source if you like, but this stuff is really getting on my nerves.
Everytime I go on Ebay and search for PDAs the same trash pops up, some idiot making a fast buck off the back of hard working Developers like us.
The guy is selling a Uni with Laurentius's and mine Rom on it and trying to make an extra £50- £70 for our hard work, since the Uni is normally going for between £160- £200 these days.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ndexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I have no idea what we can do about it, I am reporting him to Ebay and would be gratefull for the support of the community in doing the same with this guy and others like him.
It ruins this community and really winds me up to the point that I wonder if should even bother any more.
Cheers,
A very p....ssd off Beasty
I am more surprised that people actually paying to buy ROMs which are available for free. Beasty maybe you should be listing the ROMs since people don’t really want to hit the donation icon here. And I will give you a good feedback to get you started.
beast0898 said:
Hi all,
I've posted about this trash before but now it is really annoying me.
We all do our work here for free and for the better good of the community and those who use these PDA's.
I am so sick of people abusing our work and selling it on Ebay without even a thank you let alone any form of re-imbursement for the hard work we do.
I know it's not piracy, and what we do here is pretty much open-source if you like, but this stuff is really getting on my nerves.
Everytime I go on Ebay and search for PDAs the same trash pops up, some idiot making a fast buck off the back of hard working Developers like us.
The guy is selling a Uni with Laurentius's and mine Rom on it and trying to make an extra £50- £70 for our hard work, since the Uni is normally going for between £160- £200 these days.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ndexURL=4&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
I have no idea what we can do about it, I am reporting him to Ebay and would be gratefull for the support of the community in doing the same with this guy and others like him.
It ruins this community and really winds me up to the point that I wonder if should even bother any more.
MODS PLEASE STICKY THIS
Cheers,
A very p....ssd off Beasty
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I don't wish to sell them, and besides that it would be illegal to do so.
My point is that we do this for free and scum bags try to make money for nothing from others contributions to this community.
I know how stupid Microsoft will look if people start selling their modified ROMs. But I did discover one thing when you are pissed you do lose your sense of humor.
beast0898 said:
I don't wish to sell them, and besides that it would be illegal to do so.
My point is that we do this for free and scum bags try to make money for nothing from others contributions to this community.
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Yes... a lot of time goes in cooking\developing rom's and we are offering this ROM's for free here. How would you feel if we stop doing this!
I have no good words for people who are selling our ROM's on Ebay.
I might have to think about that if you stop making ROM how will I feel? I think then I will have no good words for you. Just kidding I guess then I will be disappointed because I keep coming back to your ROMs and you don’t even appreciate that I go through all that trouble and flash your ROMs. A little bit of appreciation will be nice from you people. No, seriously I do appreciate all the time you spend her and then even let people criticize you. If I was you I would just say “MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY ROMs IF YOU CAN DO a BETTER JOB”.
Laurentius26 said:
Yes... a lot of time goes in cooking\developing rom's and we are offering this ROM's for free here. How would you feel if we stop doing this!
I have no good words for people who are selling our ROM's on Ebay.
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And I do appriciate you flash our ROM's my friend
Thank you!
Regards,
Leo
faraz.riaz said:
I might have to think about that if you stop making ROM how will I feel? I think then I will have no good words for you. Just kidding I guess then I will be disappointed because I keep coming back to your ROMs and you don’t even appreciate that I go through all that trouble and flash your ROMs. A little bit of appreciation will be nice from you people. No, seriously I do appreciate all the time you spend her and then even let people criticize you. If I was you I would just say “MAKE YOUR OWN BLOODY ROMs IF YOU CAN DO a BETTER JOB”.
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Support
Hi Beasty,
I'm behind you guys 100% on this one, if you come up with a way we can all help then let us know. I guess this arse wipe is a member of this group, can we have him or them removed from it to start with. It might not be illegal to sell it on eBay, but it must be some kind of fraud. As a paramedic I am (when given permission) able to use a persons medical history to further my knowledge, but I've no right to sell it in a book on EBAY if you see my point!!!
Kind regards
Jay
THANK YOU
i would be very pissed off too if i'd work my butt off to get nothing some times not even a "thank you" and other motHer%$$·$% is getting the money for my hard-work. if anyone can come up with some good ideas to avoid this type of persons here in this wonderful comunity would be great (maybe get his IP address somehow and ban him/her for good)
i have no words for all you people that spend many hours cooking and developing, hours that maybe your wife, husband or kids would need or deserve but just think about the 1000s of happy faces we have everytime we flash you piece of artworks or all the countless hours we wait for a new ROM to come out or just the big smile we have in our faces everytime the flash is finished and we see the new ROM for the first time. Just think that he/she migth be making a few bucks, but you have the appreciation, respect, knowledge and the love of many (maybe thousands) of people every single day with every new ROM . To all this you may have notice that english is not my maiden language(im from mexico) but i do want to show you my respects, i wish i could donate but in the country i live...life is not easy and all i can do is say...... !!!!!GRACIAS!!!!!!
BEST REGARDS. Erik.
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
So Disgusting
This is very disgusting if anyone is doing so........as a members of this community we should really stop this .This forum is for us and we should appriciate our developers for giving us such ROM's........which they develope by contributing their valuable time for us.
I really feel very sad about it.
Hi all,
I have no desire to make money from my work here, or demand donations for anything I contribute, all I request is the common decency from fellow human beings not to ruin this community by exploiting others.
TehPenguin does have a point though, his hosting does cost him money and adds great value to this community, the FTP Server and BugTracker are invaluable (when used correctly) and TehPenguin and this site could really use donations to help them keep running costs down.
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
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I feel so ashamed of myself that I have decided not to download any ROM from your domain for one week. Seriously, did people have a bad weekend because everyone seemed to be pissed off? I am disappointed that you called me a hypocrite because I have been accused of this before and I’m anxiously waiting for someone to come up with something new. Everyone whom posted in this thread will have to send a handsome amount of donation to the “hosting dude” starting with Beasty who started this thread. Honestly, I do agree people should pay a little back to help those who are trying to help others. I think even if everyone pays as little as US $1 it will make a huge difference. I am surprised myself people come up with so many ideas how to change the ROM (Whisper: Most of them are lame) and they are more like demanding. I really don’t get why developers put up with that and I told Beasty that why he’s apologetic.
I do agree that we should do a little something to help. So what you need me to do?
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, thats my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
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Why don't you guys make a solution
Hey beast,
Why don't you developer make a credits section in your roms that is listing your names and all your comments.
I'm not a developer, but let me give an idea, why don't you create a program, that makes a watermark comment on the todays screen, which makes it clear to everyone that this rom is free and nmt for sale, and calling everyone that purchase this rom to contact you guys through the xda-developers web site.
it is just an idea, and I'm sure that most of the guys here is supporting you and the other developers for the great work
TehPenguin said:
However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
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Ive found the same when i set up htc-devs.com (when the ftp was wiped of m$ files)
TehPenguin said:
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
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Click to collapse
I concur, In since i started developing my total donations are barely double digits (<£50) people think that things should be handed to them on a golden platter, and when they are not 100% to thier satisfaction that you shoudl put it right, immediately, but they would never consider donating
my 2p
I am not a developer too..or not considering me in that sort of group,because of the amount of time I spend in this (about 1-2hrs a week).
Just customized a Rom to my needs and I will be glad to share if someone wants it,freely!
Every person needs to find a good balance to Private life and Rom Developement,etc.. If this development is such time consuming,calm down..review your time!
Don't pretend donations (they are always appreciated but not to be Pretended or cast something up)
Development (and programming in general) in this forum are passions that we share together..
TehPenguin said:
Although I do agree with Beast on this issue - I don't think anyone (other that a Developer) can really comment on it.
Consider, most developers for the Universal have been using my hosting - which I welcome them to do. However, not a single person who has downloaded a ROM from my hosting has donated a cent to me to help pay the hosting cost.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want the developers to pay (they're already contributing a huge amount to the community). But, when was the last time you (being a random forum member) have donated to a developer for their work or to me for my hosting? Truly, unless you have put something back into the community, you are being a hypocrite by posting in this thread!
Anyway, that's my 2 cents (Australian Cents ) on the issue - and I apologise to no one that I may have offended
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Click to collapse
I don't think ANYONE is being a hypocrite on this thread, we are just supporting developers who have had their work abused and used by another party. I have the greatest admiration for the clever people who develop the amazing Rom's for our chosen PDA, without them our universals would now be an out of date device. I personally provide files and work to the LIMIT of my own abilities, and any rom I feel worth using, then I donate to the developer. I feel thats what this forum is all about. Yes I am guilty of not supporting ANY host of download sites, and was not aware that this puts you out of pocket till now. without the hosts support to this forum it would be useless but it is not unreasonable for people to express their OWN opinion.
Respectfully
Jay
responderman said:
I don't think ANYONE is being a hypocrite on this thread, we are just supporting developers who have had their work abused and used by another party. I have the greatest admiration for the clever people who develop the amazing Rom's for our chosen PDA, without them our universals would now be an out of date device. I personally provide files and work to the LIMIT of my own abilities, and any rom I feel worth using, then I donate to the developer. I feel thats what this forum is all about. Yes I am guilty of not supporting ANY host of download sites, and was not aware that this puts you out of pocket till now. without the hosts support to this forum it would be useless but it is not unreasonable for people to express their OWN opinion.
Respectfully
Jay
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Thats a good point to note as well - Hosting cost me money, but it also costs the people who host this forum money. So, I wonder how many people have noticed the Donate link at the top of this page (near the Wiki link)...
Disagree with Beastie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I totally disagree with Beastie on this matter! If you take a look at the installed software on that Uni it has SPB Finance, Weather and Pocket Plus retailing at 70$ as well as a quite long list of other appz. More than that what we do here isn't fully legal either or at least moral. For example in our ROMs we include software that we do not have a licence or any right to use like MSVoiceCommand, MSOffice, HTC Stuff etc, etc, if you compare this to a PC it would be like buying a PC with Win98 then taking a copy(image) of a friend WinXP(with Office, and other apps) and loading it on your one. Do you thing this is right? And also if someone would do the same and sell this "New" PC complain about it. You develop for your own fun and hobby. If you decided to share something not very moral with others, don't complain when someone does something that is not fully moral by your judgement. Morality or legality of this matter is a subjective matter. And do understand the concept of open source. I'm coming from a Mozilla exdeveloper background. And Mozilla is used in numerous commercial applications with proper credits. You have no right to claim that someone used your work to make money on it, as you are using someone else work in your own interests (name, hobby, any reason). You have your reasons to make just what that guy did for his reasons(in his case money). One thief is judjung another!!! How moral is that??? Of course you do develop your own tools and enchacements, BUT on top of a STOLEN OS!!! Microsoft, HTC,etc invested money and time in their developers, designers, markeing depts. to bring this OS to life, and if they decide they don't want to give it for free it is their choice as a business model. You do not have the right to steal this OS tweak it and claim that it is YOUR and someone should pay you for this. Look a the whole picture not that just some guy used the ROM you dont own but tweaked it and claim it is yours.
PS. Last night i posted my 1st ever ROM on this forum wich is as vanilla as possible(for me), the reasons behind postin it here was exactly that. Anyone can download it and tweak it to his own use, or install new soft one it, new soft keybd, new media player, fast GPS soft etc, etc. I didn't own that OS, I took it of Thingonasping wich took it from someone else. You spend a some time and money in "developing" "your" ROMs, corporations spend billions on that, and someone comes along and steals it. Now that person do not have the need to upgrade his device anymore as "his" new OS will keep him happy for a while. How much damage do you do then to even HTC themselves who didn't sell another unit as their potential customer didn't buy it cos he's got his old device new features(without permision from legal developer).
PS. And how do you know or are so sure that he used "Your" ROM? Maybe he took your kitchen and compiled it, (wich in your view and interpretation), makes it "His" ROM now, isn't it?
I feel sorry for the poor sod who will buy this Universal:
1. As far as legality is concerned, any stolen goods doesn't pass the title of ownership to the buyer. Even though the buyer is unaware of this theft and he/she is innocent, the ownership title doesn't pass to him/her. A case in point about Spb software on the phone, which we are assuming installed on the phone illegally.
2. To add to this the poor sod's nightmare, he/she will be lumbered with Windows Mobile 6 with full of bugs. For sure it won't have video calling.
KOR!
@Moderators
I would like to talk sit down and talk via gtalk or something to a board of mods to handle this once and for all
This whole thing is ridiculous as I said I was updating the OP and changelog later that night and NEVER claimed it was ALL 100% mine.
I Pmed a couple mods but have gotten no response. I am sure they are busy I just want to get this rollin.
thank you
kingklick said:
@Moderators
I would like to talk sit down and talk via gtalk or something to a board of mods to handle this once and for all
This whole thing is ridiculous as I said I was updating the OP and changelog later that night and NEVER claimed it was ALL 100% mine.
I Pmed a couple mods but have gotten no response. I am sure they are busy I just want to get this rollin.
thank you
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omg he surfaced someone spray him with the hose.
Thats big of you King. I agree nothing good comes out of arguments, and childish actions. Its best to just discuss it, and hopefully move on. And most importantly get this community back to a happy one!
ionic7 said:
omg he surfaced someone spray him with the hose.
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Layoff, respect yo fellow members. I'm sure what he has to say will be quite interesting. Sure people may hate him still but he'll still also have those "fans".
I am neutral about this whole dispute now, sure he did something wrong but it's common for humans to make mistakes. What he did was wrong, and I think he understand this. Even if he did take money from others to get new phones and beers.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't.
protomanez said:
Layoff, respect yo fellow members. I'm sure what he has to say will be quite interesting. Sure people may hate him still but he'll still also have those "fans".
I am neutral about this whole dispute now, sure he did something wrong but it's common for humans to make mistakes. What he did was wrong, and I think he understand this. Even if he did take money from others to get new phones and beers.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't.
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Click to collapse
I think you'll find I stole nothing, nor money........ I was donted far less then a nexus is worth and I did what I said I'd do - buy a nexus for development
The one dispute that I understand is this latest one with my froyo - that I totally understand the confusion.
the main thing is I said I needed to update my op and i was running out for the night..
I never claimed that to be 100% me......... EVER
I dont do this for the money....................Its no where near worth the 20 bucks a month
cheers
I just really want to get this straightned out
protomanez said:
Layoff, respect yo fellow members. I'm sure what he has to say will be quite interesting. Sure people may hate him still but he'll still also have those "fans".
I am neutral about this whole dispute now, sure he did something wrong but it's common for humans to make mistakes. What he did was wrong, and I think he understand this. Even if he did take money from others to get new phones and beers.
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't.
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I am not a fan boy for either side as well, just do not have respect for his side of the issue he was laughing about it on twitter, i hardly think he has any care of what he did.
ionic7 said:
I am not a fan boy for either side as well, just do not have respect for his side of the issue he was laughing about it on twitter, i hardly think he has any care of what he did.
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Yes, true I saw it all, as I said before I think he's realized that he's f'd up and is trying to clean it up now. I don't think King is the type to kneel down and beg for forgiveness. MEN HAS PRIDEZ
I say let Bigons be Bigons... (or how ever you spell it ) I got nothing with King,,
I say, if you have a problem with anyone last thing you do Is flame them in a thread,, take it to PM's, Although people maybe right to flame, nobody is going to respect you if you do, you just make yourself look like an ass (No offence to anyone)
"No one cares about who pissed you off, But how you dealt with the situation..."
And flaming people isn't going to help resolve anything
So yeah haha That's my $0.02 needed or not
protomanez said:
Yes, true I saw it all, as I said before I think he's realized that he's f'd up and is trying to clean it up now. I don't think King is the type to kneel down and beg for forgiveness. MEN HAS PRIDEZ
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It is not a matter of pride it is a matter of arrogance and his overly high pedestal he has erected and placed himself upon.
crunkcory said:
And most importantly get this Community back to a happy one!
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In my Oppinion that´s the Fact. We are an OPENSOURCE-Community, which should get the best out of our Devices, regardless if you cook up a ROM using this and that...
Were not at the Kindergarden!
Opensource is, and should always be, free to use for everybody in every Way.
Ugh. Really? Why is there drama in the development thread. We are all so irritated by the newbies that create new threads in this subforum just to ask a question, but I think it's worse to do that, when you have been here long enough to know better, just to argue about pointless drama. Maybe King copied and pasted an entire ROM, maybe not. Whatever. We should fight about it amongst ourselves... not all over a section designated for getting work done.
This whole argument about him taking money is ridiculous.
Stop being so damn jealous.
*NOTE* I'm not saying this is all about the money, i'm just saying this for the people that bring it up.
protomanez said:
Yes, true I saw it all, as I said before I think he's realized that he's f'd up and is trying to clean it up now. I don't think King is the type to kneel down and beg for forgiveness. MEN HAS PRIDEZ
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yes and no
See here is where my problem with the issue I am being accused for
* it is being made seem like I just renamed someones rom and released it...
I released a froyo ROM that did have alot of someones work yes, but its not like I claimed it as mine...EVER
thats the issue.
I made a handful of IMPORTANT changes and also said I was implementing all my usual changes the NEXT day....
If you look at my post it doesnt even look like any of my other ROMs....I WAS OBVIOUSLY GOING TO UPDATE THE VERBAGE LATER THAT NIGHT.
i just want this to be over with already, its 95% a misunderstanding
carnegie0107 said:
Ugh. Really? Why is there drama in the development thread. We are all so irritated by the newbies that create new threads in this subforum just to ask a question, but I think it's worse to do that, when you have been here long enough to know better, just to argue about pointless drama. Maybe King copied and pasted an entire ROM, maybe not. Whatever. We should fight about it amongst ourselves... not all over a section designated for getting work done.
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+1
Totaly agree with you, this isnt the place for all this nonsense.
Made it right before the lock.
@KiNgKLicK92 - Shut the hell up. =P
G1BRICKED said:
Made it right before the lock.
@KiNgKLicK92 - Shut the hell up. =P
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Really he is apologizing and trying to fix the situation and you guys want to chew him up and spit him out. Wow!!! King has done a lot for the Android Community. And I will be willing to sit down in a Gtalk or whatever to get down to the bottom of this so this community can get back to the way it was. I have been around a while and have seen what this community can do, just like anything there are good times and there are bad times. You get over the bad times so you can start having good times again.
Everybody just needs to Build A Bridge And Get Over It!!!!!
Just in case anybody needed a reminder:
Open-source software (OSS) is computer software that is available in source code form for which the source code and certain other rights normally reserved for copyright holders are provided under a software license that permits users to study, change, and improve the software. Open source licenses often meet the requirements of the Open Source Definition. Some open source software is available within the public domain. Open source software is very often developed in a public, collaborative manner. Open-source software is the most prominent example of open-source development and often compared to (technically defined) user-generated content or (legally defined) open content movements. The term open-source software originated as part of a marketing campaign for free software. A report by Standish Group states that adoption of open-source software models has resulted in savings of about $60 billion per year to consumers.
But I do agree give credit where credit is do. Ok that is all I am going to say on this. King I am willing to sit in and hear your side of the story.
Royalknight6190 said:
Really he is apologizing and trying to fix the situation and you guys want to chew him up and spit him out. Wow!!! King has done a lot for the Android Community. And I will be willing to sit down in a Gtalk or whatever to get down to the bottom of this so this community can get back to the way it was. I have been around a while and have seen what this community can do, just like anything there are good times and there are bad times. You get over the bad times so you can start having good times again.
Everybody just needs to Build A Bridge And Get Over It!!!!!
Just in case anybody needed a reminder:
Open-source software (OSS) is computer software that is available in source code form for which the source code and certain other rights normally reserved for copyright holders are provided under a software license that permits users to study, change, and improve the software. Open source licenses often meet the requirements of the Open Source Definition. Some open source software is available within the public domain. Open source software is very often developed in a public, collaborative manner. Open-source software is the most prominent example of open-source development and often compared to (technically defined) user-generated content or (legally defined) open content movements. The term open-source software originated as part of a marketing campaign for free software. A report by Standish Group states that adoption of open-source software models has resulted in savings of about $60 billion per year to consumers.
But I do agree give credit where credit is do. Ok that is all I am going to say on this. King I am willing to sit in and hear your side of the story.
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Click to collapse
Its great to see someone understands my point of view and why I feel ok sharing work with many.
I would appreciate the opportunity and would love to sit down with you and other mods to get this settled via gtalk or anything
ALSO - Id like to explain the whole credit where credit is due - there IS an explanation
cheers !
Who gives a ****?
Some people make roms, others use roms. It's all open source. Quit getting your panties in a bunch. There is nothing imature about an argument, however arguing with people on the internet...get over it. To everyone, everyone sounds like some ****** 10 year old.
Grow up, and stop posting in this thread like anyone gives a ****. Now go ahead, call me a ****, child, loser, idiot, moron, nin-come-poop, whatever helps you get over the fact this is a useless thread, and you're all wasting your time here. Don't even bother to respond to me, I won't read it. Just stop bringing up stupid drama. This isn't high school....
Long live Android.
This whole battle has been played out before....eg Haykuro....king has learned what others before him have also. Just has writers value giving credit where written words are concerned, so too do developers value the credited code. People, perhaps rightly so, are very sensitive to this phenomenon. Just be very careful and double cite if you have to...
Peace be amongst us...
kingklick said:
I dont do this for the money....................Its no where near worth the 20 bucks a month
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I don't get it, hes not holding a shotgun to your heads and saying give me money. It is your choice to "donate" to King or any other person you one to. None of his post say pay up or else. There shouldnt be so much drama with grown or close to grown men, especially on the internet. One thing I don't like are those cyber bullies with nothing better to do.Also King isn't stealing cause you cant steal whats free
Im starting to think some are a bit jealous of the money he got....just saying
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Just allow electronic Darwinism to take its course! If someone is taking the piss, they'll soon die out, if people use common sense and don't encourage them
Most devs that I see, Or rather use ROMS from are quite active and very supportive and NEVER even spoke anything about donation. I was happy to donate for a few of them coz it is really worth it.
I think this opinion you speak of might have been due to your ill luck or some pretty bad devs you have encountered.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I'm saying that your prespective might be due to a unlucky or bad dev (one bad apple) incident.
As far as my phone the Desire Hd is concerned, the developers are still just as helpful and enthusiastic as ever.
There is no developer like a bad or good developer, its because of them 99% of people are using roms without donating, 1 % donates to developers
I know a lot of developer who work on projects for free, but even the developers out there like to drink a beer paid from their projects
-> Donations are welcome!
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
tolis626 said:
Well,a developer who makes something for XDA and then actually tries to sell it is a downright asshole.Pardon the word,but it's the most accurate description I can give.
This is a community of developers,for developers to share their work.Users are more like guests,who get to use everything for free and just help developers by pointing out flaws in their work.Users enjoy developers' work and developers make their work better constantly,because they want to.No one forced them or employed them here.But then again,it's only right that we should donate to them sometimes.They donate their free time and put large efforts for what's done here,so it's a fair "exchange".But that's it.Donating is optional,as it should be and as is right.The "developers" who try to sell their work here are in the wrong place.
Generally,the better the work,the more donations they will get,so actually instead of asking for money they could just make something better than what's already available and money will come.
We aren't fools who expect everyone to selflessly give us their work in this world,but for Christ's sake,at least pretend that you're selfless!
Anyway,this is in no way an attack or rant against developers,but rather to those self-called developers who exploit the community spirit for their gains.True developers,as most here are I hope,are more than just respected here.
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Click to collapse
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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Click to collapse
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs
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I totally agree with that.
Archer said:
I totally agree with that.
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As does XDA, hence the rules at present
This is not a platform to make money from. For anyone who cares, I have made a total of £0.00 from XDA. I don't wish to make personal profit from here.
I spend large numbers of hours on the site, doing stuff behind the scenes. If I was to draw up a "bill" for the past year, it would be in the hundreds of thousands of pounds, based on the price I charge for my services.
But I wouldn't ever want to see myself as selling something here. That's not what this site is about! There's plenty of places to sell stuff. If you make your own app, fair enough. If you modify something belonging to someone else, then nope
bwheelies said:
Just curious what everyone's opinion is on this.
When I got my first android phone in 2010, a Samsung Fascinate, it seemed to be a burgeoning scene with the developers doing dev'ing for the fun of it and getting rewarded by an appreciative end user.
Fast forward nine months and I am ready for 4g so I slap down my $600 for a charge and watch a molasses like and seemingly dormant dev scene.
There is excuse after excuse as to why the scene is quiet and then there is wind of an "in development" ICS ROM. This is put forth via twitter and then shows up on XDA not even by the developer mind you and everyone gets excited and is flooding said dev with donations on a ROM he labels "the most unsupported ROM ever" and proceeds to let it sit due to the same reason the phone has not had any real attention all along; no RIL code.
When said dev is called on about putting something out labelled "unsupported" and then has the gall to say donate to me(which the dev or mods remove from the thread) if you want the work finished; is this acceptable behaviour?
I am not an end user who is unappreciative and expecting of a dev's work.
I do play with some of the custom stuff for fun on occasion but always come back to stock.
You can keep the simple petty rhetoric that typically ensues to yourself. I am entitled to my $600 phone and that is what I use. Not anyone's work on the forums or IRC! If I do use anything I will test for problems and report back before jumping back to stock and pass along a gesture of appreciation.
Now that I have hopefully made you understand my intentions and absolve anyone of the typical schoolyard bashing that frequents these hallowed walls, is it acceptable for a dev to whip together a ROM that is useless and collect money on it from all of the hopeful and anticipating end users that will not realize an end product?
Especially now that manufacturers are pumping out new phones at an alarming rate that a new phone will be in the shadows every six months.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
Ok, I have been trolling here for sometime and have seen some devs who ask for donations. However, the vast majority just contribute their time and hard work for the betterment of the platform and the community as a whole.
As for slow development, I think a lot of that has to do with the phone. I have the SGS 2 and there is active development for that with a lot of great roms. My wife has the 4g Slide and the development is slightly slower. It all comes down to the popularity of the phone.
If devs make a product good enough for people to pay for then good for them. On the other hand, if they ask for donations but their software is crap then no one will buy it.
It's a free market, let them try.
It is alot of work and it requires a special skill set to do what devs do, so I can appreciate them asking for a couple bucks for their trouble.
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Archer said:
So developers on xda-developers are not allowed to sell software now? There's actually a forum dedicated to paid software, so you're wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=993
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Click to collapse
I agree with Cabe24i.See below.
Cabe24i said:
Developers should be able to sell software they created, for example; applications, scripts, hell even mods that don't include any work from someone else. In my opinion this shouldn't include ROMs, why? Because with the possible exception of building completely from source, you are essentially selling modifications of someone else's software. Especially when you include proprietary drivers and software. Touchscreen drivers, camera drivers, audio drivers, radio drivers and the like in many cases are proprietary and licensed to be resold only by the maker of the device. Receiving donations for development is questionable at best, demanding donations for development is basically selling software you don't have rights to sell.
I think one of the reason I've previously seen mods block these sort of attempts is because it creates a legal issue for XDA itself. Plus you have people who donated but developers wanting more and the person who donated feel cheated.
Thankfully I haven't seen a lot of this in the Evo3D forums, I have seen a lot of RESPECT THE GPL immediately after DON'T EVEN LOOK AT MY CODE when half their code is kanged from someone else's hard work. Usually though, people start getting annoyed and those roms start to die off.
Or you have the case with Chad.Goodman, where he writes decent stuff on his own and people get annoyed by that and contact beats & qualcomm all while they release 'beats' mods on their own stuff. (which still doesn't make any sense to me)
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Click to collapse
The point isn't whether they are allowed to accept money for their work.They surely should put their creations on sale.And exactly here is where I agree with you.ROMs and kernels aren't their work.As good as someone's modifications can be,it's not new code written by them entirely(except for some patches,etc).While their work is and should be rewarded,it should in no way become mandatory that we pay to use it.It should be optional as it is.It's fair for everyone that way.Those who deserve it will get paid,end of story.
Selling apps on XDA is another story,but it's also completely right to do so,as they could just sell those on the market and be done with it.But it's about applications written anew,not modified ones.Did anyone sell a modified copy of a game?I don't think so.
We should show our appreciation to developers,but they should also show us some respect(I am more than content with what's going on here on the dev side,it's XDA's ungrateful noobs that I'm mad with like most of you here).Fraud is a crime after all.
I can see both sides of that argument actually. Whilst I do think it's unreasonable for a developer to request money for merely tweaking a ROM, it's the same as a painter painting your living room. He's not made you a brand new living room from scratch. He's just painted your existing one. That's similar to a ROM tweaker.
That said, I do understand and abide by the rules - I'm not arguing them. Just playing devil's advocate.
lowandbehold said:
My thoughts? If your main concern was dev scene, why would you get a locked down motorola?
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Not sure if you are asking me. I have a Droid Charge.
F2504x4 said:
I buy beers/coffee when i see two things..
#1 a good working Rom/ Root / hack /tweak that has a history of upgrades/work/tweaks from the chef.
# 2 the chef is active in the thread, helping others with questions/ issues etc etc..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is one of the best posts I have seen on xda. Judging by this, the developer who posted a no effort ROM in a stagnant phone development scene who says donate and does nothing with the ROM is nothing but a modern day P.T. Barnum.
First of all, you don't have to donate
But I agree with OP it's not done to demand donations to finish work.
If your work is good and you support it well, possibilities for a donation are much higher.
But it is no guarantee for donations.
But isn't respect from others the best payment for your work? That's the reason I do my share for the community
I would personally like jin1337 unbanned. Noone is left to work on this device and scripts all come from another source script anyways. You let reviewers come back and he was notorious for kanging, and he didn't hardly anywork when he came back anyway. He got us a new modem and asked somebody for permission to "manage" someone elses rom. I valued him better then reviewers because he is more mature. SO ANYONE ELSE WHO WANT JIN1337 UNBANNED POST HERE AS WELL
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
Roundtableprez said:
I would personally like jin1337 unbanned. Noone is left to work on this device and scripts all come from another source script anyways. You let reviewers come back and he was notorious for kanging, and he didn't hardly anywork when he came back anyway. He got us a new modem and asked somebody for permission to "manage" someone elses rom. I valued him better then reviewers because he is more mature. SO ANYONE ELSE WHO WANT JIN1337 UNBANNED POST HERE AS WELL
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
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Actually Myself and Reviewers will be co authoring a ROM for the SK4G using my newest scripts, tweaks and other goodies. JiN is completely useless. He had no clue what he was doing in terms of rom tweaks. When He gave me the build.prop to his rom I started laughing. He added the same set of tweaks two or three times but all were set to different values. He even had double set of scripts. This kid had no clue what he was doing AT ALL. Plus he was a kanger from hell. I promise quality work and ACTUAL speed and performance gains across the board.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
I'm not going to even comment it's not worth getting in trouble.
He did 1 ROM.
I did GenericGinger I'm a maintainer He was a Helper.
I released the Blaze 4G Modem and tons of ROM's.
Neither you or reviewers actually owns the device so I don't see how you guys plan on making brand new roms without "kanging" yourselfs. I still want jin back since he was a good active here. I think it is unfair that people without the device get to get people banned for no reason. And like I said befor your little buddy reviewers was a knager from hell too especially when I first got here... so I mean if they don't unban jin they should atleast reban reviewers
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
I have the Sidekick 4G what are you talking about man?
I always had a Sidekick 4G.
I was never a kanger I got a infraction for kanging because I forgot to add credit once hence the infraction you usually get banned.
This wasn't a thread to start arguing if you don't want jin back please don't post anymore.
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
I'm not fighting he was cool.
I'm not saying I don't want him back though.
I can pickup a sk4g from craigslist for 40 bucks if i need to. These phone are dirt cheap. JiN isnt coming back and amount of petitions is gonna fix the situation here. Most of you have no idea what a script does anyhow so saying taking a script isnt techincally kanging is totally false. Reviewers has mad mistakes in the past im sure of it. But I am not going to kang anyones work to make my own. All my copyrighted scripts where made from scratch. No one helped me with my scripts. So if you guys do not want a rom then so long. I just thought I would help further development of android is all. Also If you guy didnt know I do not and will not take donations AT ALL. Just a little Fyi.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
ReActiveDisorder said:
Most of you have no idea what a script does anyhow
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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Not just scripts, and I will speak for myself, am oblivious of almost anything about developing. I think that is why everyone was so reluctant to have Jin here putting **** out, but not many of us knew what he was doing, and apparently neither did he.
Its been really sad for a lot of us to get totally ignored with this device and be stuck on froyo in the ICS age. I feel like I speak for everyone when I say we will appreciate almost anything that anyone can put out. I also think everyone needs to get over when people are rude, like seriously, it's an internet forum, there is no need for everyone to be polite and wipe your butt for you, though I know some people can go completely out of line.
/rant
All in all, if jun was really stealing Re's ****, then he deserved the ban.
Again if you don't want jin back you can stay away from this post thank you that is all
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
yeah, i agree. get jin back here. we pm find out what is plm with rom. unlikely other dev never respond through pm... noob become pro.
I was stunned by how badly the JiN situation was handled, including by the moderator. I know it's just an online forum, but I had come to expect more reasonable behavior.
A year ago it was Revolution, now known as Reviewers, who was being treated badly as a novice developer. I thought it was BS then, but I didn't speak up. I wish I had. I would think he would recognize the similarities and stand up for JiN a little bit.
Personally I wish it would be more about advancing the device, and building a knowledge base, less about power and retribution. We have so few developers on this platform, and everyone has to learn as they go along.
While it was against a strict interpretation of XDA's rules for JiN to use the scripts without obtaining permission first, ReactiveDisorder could have been big about it and given his blessing. It was a minor newbie mistake that didn't need to trigger a personality meltdown.
So yeah, I think JiN should be unbanned. I think he should apologize to ReactiveDisorder (even if he has already) for his inconsiderate mistake, and ReactiveDisorder should be happy, and not huff and puff about patents and lawsuits, unless he's angling for a gig at Oracle.
I say give him another chance when he shows that he can be trusted. Devs are supposed to be a team, or at least that's how I see it. I would love to load my first Android phone with the new hotness.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
LOL I'm sorry, the only person that handled this badly was jin. Look at his posts effectively saying that he did not care about asking for permission and was prepared to make multiple accounts to repost someone else's work. That was before a moderator was even involved.
He was given the chance to address the issue properly, usually in such a case his thread would have been closed instantly and all links removed however he was actually given a grace period to correct his mistake. He threw that back in my face by attempting to skirt around the rules by distributing links via pm.
He would have been back before long and free to continue developing if it weren't for his own decision to instantly create another account despite being told not to.
The only person you have to blame for him not being here is jin himself.
A petition has absolutely no bearing on somebody being unbanned whether it contains ten or ten thousand names, that's just not how things work.
There are also other factors that you aren't aware so I suggest that you reconsider you assessment of how this was handled.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
The community even wants him back. So your right I do have a lot to consider. Like which forum ill be moving to as I'm certainly not staying here. You single handedly killed a device because of script infringement? Good to see the so called community works together to help advance. I feel that people are playing favorites here as I have not heard a single good reason why jin was banned. He stole so and so's script. Do you guys actually think only one single person stumbled upon a single script? Or could it be someone else found it as well? Also reactive gave permission to use the alleged script in question in gingerclone which jin had a much bigger involvment in then the other members. Of course every post from gingerclone has been deleted but reviewers did post in there giving permission for everyone to use as a base. So technically if consent from reactive is needed for ini scripts... reviewers should be infractured for giving away someone else's work. Some of you may be wondering where that post is reviewers wrote, it has since been removed by him or a mod, (someone was protecting their own butt) i just think that somewhere else (where the mods dont just ban people because only one person in the world could figure out some ini tweaks) may suit the sidekick 4gs needs better. The only reason jin was banned because he stood up for what android is all about, opensource. He failed to comply? To who a forum nazi who had nothing better to do except make requests of removal of ini tweaks? I really dont understand how its a developement community if were not all working together. @reactive and reviewers, id rather have no development then you guys at this point. So know im not looking forward to your rom.
Roundtableprez said:
The community even wants him back. So your right I do have a lot to consider. Like which forum ill be moving to as I'm certainly not staying here. You single handedly killed a device because of script infringement? Good to see the so called community works together to help advance. I feel that people are playing favorites here as I have not heard a single good reason why jin was banned. He stole so and so's script. Do you guys actually think only one single person stumbled upon a single script? Or could it be someone else found it as well? Also reactive gave permission to use the alleged script in question in gingerclone which jin had a much bigger involvment in then the other members. Of course every post from gingerclone has been deleted but reviewers did post in there giving permission for everyone to use as a base. So technically if consent from reactive is needed for ini scripts... reviewers should be infractured for giving away someone else's work. Some of you may be wondering where that post is reviewers wrote, it has since been removed by him or a mod, (someone was protecting their own butt) i just think that somewhere else (where the mods dont just ban people because only one person in the world could figure out some ini tweaks) may suit the sidekick 4gs needs better. The only reason jin was banned because he stood up for what android is all about, opensource. He failed to comply? To who a forum nazi who had nothing better to do except make requests of removal of ini tweaks? I really dont understand how its a developement community if were not all working together. @reactive and reviewers, id rather have no development then you guys at this point. So know im not looking forward to your rom.
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Reviewers has my written permission to use ALL my scripts. Ive been helping him along. I plan on helping him with other things like deodexing, building from source, etc etc...I jumped the gun being harsh on reviewers in the past. He has given me proper credit for every ive helped him with. That is all I wanted....Ask permission....Give credit....Done?? JiN never even asked me. He just said F**k it and stole my 6 scripts. Those 6 scripts added 300-400 points on quadrent testing for everyone info. So my "Simple Scripts" did ALOT.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Yes I don't believe you are understanding what I'm saying reviewers gave everbody on the internet to use generic ginger as a base. Your scripts were included in genericginger. What are people supposed to remove your scripts from base builds? I think not I think if you didn't want people using your scripts you shouldn't have put them in a rom that people are allowed to use as a base. Fair IS fair after all
And if you dont believe me just ask a mod to check the deleted posts in generic ginger. He gave out permission to use the rom as a base and your sscripts were in it so if your mad at anybody it should be reviewers for giving everyone permission to use your work
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
Jin did not handle it badly until the end. Yes, he was a fool to say "I will keep kanging and distribute through other methods" to the mods. For that he did deserve to get banned. However, reviewers and reactive were acting like children publicly long before he did (I have no idea what happened in private between you 3 obviously).
I want him back though! Why? Because I am using his IceBlaze 4.5, and it is hands down THE BEST rom I have ever used on this phone. I want IceBlaze 4.6 and I want him to keep working on future versions. I am a developer at about his level (not a real dev, but can grab the best **** out there and stick it in one nice little package for release). Problem is, I don't have the time for it, so it is so awesome that he appeared and made something awesome for my phone that I would never get around to doing myself. ...and so ****ty that he is now gone because some dude "higher-up" has a god complex and thinks it is even possible to copywrite a script.
I have tried BasicGinger 3.8, 3.7, 4.1 and the unreleased 4.2 hosted on the same site as 4.1. None of them worked for calling a number. Process phone would FC and drop my call. I mentioned this multiple times, but they were all too busy arguing like school kids to help me out.
I have not tried Hewett's rom because to me all the top icons are ugly.
I tried all rev's ROMs months ago too, but none of them were as stable, pretty, and fast as GOv2.
So my options are:
1) Go back to GOv2.
2) Stick with IceBlaze 4.1 (fastest, most-stable, fully working ROM)
3) Try to get IceBlaze 4.2 (YES! Please unban Jin, at least long enough that I can give him my email )
If Reviewers / ReActive think I don't deserve to test his IceBlaze because he stole if from them (with giving credits mind you!), then where the heck does that leave me, the user?
My turn on the playground:
F*** Y** guys! Anything I can put on my phone, anything I can put on my computer, anything I can see or hear... I can save, modify, and re-distribute it to anyone and everyone on earth. That is my GOD GIVEN RIGHT!!! No RIAA, MPAA, US-DOJ, or XDA will ever convince me otherwise. Yes, I am a coder/developer by profession, and yes I DO NOT believe in copywrite, patents, or IP (intellectual property is an oxymoron, you cannot own intellect!)
---------- Post added at 11:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 AM ----------
Roundtableprez said:
Yes I don't believe you are understanding what I'm saying reviewers gave everbody on the internet to use generic ginger as a base. Your scripts were included in genericginger. What are people supposed to remove your scripts from base builds? I think not I think if you didn't want people using your scripts you shouldn't have put them in a rom that people are allowed to use as a base. Fair IS fair after all
And if you dont believe me just ask a mod to check the deleted posts in generic ginger. He gave out permission to use the rom as a base and your sscripts were in it so if your mad at anybody it should be reviewers for giving everyone permission to use your work
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
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Click to collapse
Damn good point. I thanked him for doing it at the time.
Roundtableprez said:
Yes I don't believe you are understanding what I'm saying reviewers gave everbody on the internet to use generic ginger as a base. Your scripts were included in genericginger. What are people supposed to remove your scripts from base builds? I think not I think if you didn't want people using your scripts you shouldn't have put them in a rom that people are allowed to use as a base. Fair IS fair after all
Sent from my SGH-T839 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA's policy with regard to use and attribution seems simple on its surface, but the truth is it's a murky issue.
Reviewers had accepted JiN's cooperation on GenericGinger, so it seems to me JiN had both implicit and explicit permission to use the contents of the ROM.
ReActiveDisorder apparently offered his scripts for inclusion to the ROM. Perhaps he put clear limits on further use of the scripts at that time, perhaps not. As far as I can tell any such restriction was not made clear publicly, at first.
As a publicly acknowledged maintainer of GenericGinger, JiN felt justified in re-using the contents of the ROM as a base, complying with Reviewers' explicitly announced terms. ReActiveDisorder felt he had not given permission for this use, even though he had contributed his scripts to a ROM already made free by its initial poster. Here I think ReActive erred -- if he wanted to keep his scripts closed, he shouldn't have contributed them to a ROM already made free.
ReActiveDisorder then made horrid ugly noises, then JiN made horrid ugly noises, then the moderator appeared and took a side. JiN mouthed off in response to the moderator, got banned, worked around it, and here we are.
It's the anatomy of a bad call. JiN is out because he failed to respect conantroutman's verdict, and yes, subsequently reacted badly. And no, conantroutman, I don't think anyone seriously thinks a moderator's decisions would be influenced by member opinions now that it has all played out. But that doesn't mean it was a good call on the initial merits.
ReActiveDisorder, you should know that while you can copyright the exact contents of your scripts, you can't copyright a series of settings made against someone else's API. Anyone could simply look at what you did and re-implement more or less the same result, without infringing on your copyright. And the prospect of obtaining a software patent on a series of Android kernel and userland settings is absurd on its face.
And who among us has obtained personal permission from, or even given credit to, all the thousands of contributors to the Linux kernel, the AOSP project, any of the constituent software (sqlite, busybox, Samsung engineers, the list goes on) in the course of releasing a ROM? So the credit and permission rule is applied either arbitrarily, or selectively.
Personally, I think all sides of the dispute acted badly, and JiN got the axe because he sassed a moderator. Way to go, guys.
ReActiveDisorder said:
Actually Myself and Reviewers will be co authoring a ROM for the SK4G using my newest scripts, tweaks and other goodies. JiN is completely useless. He had no clue what he was doing in terms of rom tweaks. When He gave me the build.prop to his rom I started laughing. He added the same set of tweaks two or three times but all were set to different values. He even had double set of scripts. This kid had no clue what he was doing AT ALL. Plus he was a kanger from hell. I promise quality work and ACTUAL speed and performance gains across the board.
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All I know is, his ROM works faster then GOv2 with more free memory. I sincerely hope you can do better if what you say is correct, so I look forward to seeing that. Shame we are left hanging in the mean time when a "dumb kid" was willing and able to give us IceBlaze NOW.
Reviewers said:
I'm not going to even comment it's not worth getting in trouble.
He did 1 ROM.
I did GenericGinger I'm a maintainer He was a Helper.
I released the Blaze 4G Modem and tons of ROM's.
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All I know is, your older roms were slower and less stable then GOv2. GenericGinger was just as awesomely fast as IceBlaze, but it could not dial a phone number!
Ok so basically I want to get this off my chest because this really bothers me and I strongly believe not all points will be accepted or seen as I do. Maybe some of you have heard of the "AOSiP experiment". If not read it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/redmi-note-5-pro/development/rom-aosp-pie-t3829052/page125 last post thread is locked.
So where do we start? I've been here around some time (even before I registered I lurked around). To the people saying xda is full of troll lately and back than it was way better. No it wasn't. Trolls and ret*rds have been around since xda started the only thing really changed is there are telegram groups for every thing (why tho?) where they troll and harass in real time. The only rule I found about xda is : the cheaper the phone the ****t*er the community. (this might be a point you don't agree on). I strive to improve the community because I am a part of it. I try to be helpful when needed point to already asked question and provide logs. And really I didn't mind fight the trolls.
But now I have to fight troll users AND troll "devs"? Troll "devs", lul never thought of using this phrase but boi here we are. I get it you are tired of all the pubg and give me SOT spammers. But why don't you just make a private telegram group for the devs? What hurts me of the most personally is that the "devs", to prove a point, said: "we gonna f*ck over our normal userbase who appreciate your works btw "(or atleast did). So because you got trolled, you trolled back. Only it missed the target. The trolls won and it's no victory to let a mod (not even akhil himself) post that ridiculously statement and close the thread so there won't be any discussion.
Also why didn't you make up a kernel? Why do you take the name of a dev who did nothing to you and drag him with you. Do you know what messages @srfarias is getting now because you thought: "lul lets take his kernel". Or does your own standards don't apply to yourself? "Trolling / harassment is bad as long as its against us? Trolling another dude is fine, as long as we don't know him?" Don't believe me? Read it here https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=78978664&postcount=112
Don't get me worn the whole maintainer team of AOSIP did great work! But on a human level they are currently as low as it can get. I personally don't give a f*ck if they stay away because this kind of devs is what's I believe makes up a toxic community. (another controversial point I guess)
Yes this is mainly a rant and maybe I'm way to offended by the devs but I really have to take this of my chest.
Thank to all the devs working on android and not playing games with their user base. And sorry @srfarias for all the sh*t you are getting right now.
Have a nice day.
Sir what's going on?
I find it a bit weird as well that they care so much about what a few people say. They completely forget about all the people who don't say anything because they have no issues at all...
Turning this theme around is trolling. Enough, please. Let's stop criticizing as users or developer and start all over again to bring out the best in us. The developers who only sporten their work and the users only our support and thanks. Enough please
Exactly that! I completely agree to all points... I bought the device 6 months back just because I saw huge development and I was completely happy with all the alternatives out there. J really liked akhils' work with Derp and never had an issue... Seeing the way now the device taking completely getting abandoned from most of the major projects going on, which also helped smaller projects to get a more polished work for our devices, just because some majority of users can't even follow the instructions of flashing or even understand what they are talking about most of the times is really disappointing.
There is always a better alternative to keep the true userbase "happy" with your work.
Everybody could easily not care about the troll's, just annouce in XDA - if they still wanted - keep a closed forum and just release personal work. Get their feedback through GitHub or any other issue tracking platform with strict bug report "protocol" and ignore all of those "members" who are unable to provide useful feedback. But, all we got now is that we got trolled by those who don't even care to try all the steps in order to provide useful feedback...
Anyways, I still appreciate the work done in Whyred and for me the best I have to do is to move to another device which potentially has a better community and devs that knows how to not care about the trolls. as most of the devs should know that 9/10 times the fault isn't in the code but in the user... Especially when we are talking about ROM/kernel performance in games for example. In telegram forum I even saw a user asking if it was possible to update his chipset form sd660 to sd845 through kernel update. Should we even care to explain to any user with this attitude? This type is not even making a research about what he is tweaking on his device and the potential damages he could get by those tweaks...
i don't own this device, but someone linked me this post for some reason.
All i can say is, i have to agree on most points in the OP.
have a nice day all
I am really Sad for this situation, I don't even own the device... but oof.... Good luck guys.
Using other devs name-for-a-project just to f'ck around/troll the users is as low as it gets.
Oh, here is my very unpopular opinion: I have had nothing but trouble with AOSiP(both oreo and pie builds). I thought it was only on my side, cuz everybody shared how good and awesome and perfect AOSiP was. Ugh, the brutal battery drains I had with AOSiP and Derp...
Holy sh't, when I read what happened yesterday, I thought I was in the wrong hecking forum and not XDA. I am glad that AOSiP is gone at this point.
Trolls should be punished, all of them, no matter who they are and what work they have done! If the main problem is trolling, make the whole forum closed behind a sub and stop whining about people being trolls. Where the f'ck have you lived until now?! On another planet? Tough luck, humans have been trolling since forever. People have been illiterate since forever. They don't care to learn, they just consume! But... When you're a dev and you're supposed to be smarter then the bunch of trolls, yet you fall on the trolls' level, you lost that one, hard!
Also, I remember srfarias from before. He has always done his best and I was surprised he started working on this device! He was never malicious! Keep it up, srfarias!
He's not in a ****, everyone here (only with brain) already knows what just happened, so it shouldn't be a problem at all, Srfarias isn't a well known (yet) on RN5 community since it was his first (and perfect) work, that's why he got attacked and to be fair that's normal and expected especially from this community, if he was a known here and developing ROMs for RN5 like the others i can imagine a totally different reaction from the same who attacked him, but since he's not known here (again, yet) then no problem, **** his rights and **** his time that he spent on this great kernel, no wonder, this is the nature of people.
Go to any ROM's topic now and see the begging, please dev don't leave us, you're the best dev, no such issue here don't report any issue you can hurt the dev, please continue your awesome work dev, will you continue this project dev?....etc.
God bless you Srfarias with this community and have fun (i doubt )
Just a personal consideration: it's sad to see how a very restricted group of people can destroy a modding community.
I can agree with you but also with the devs.
Spammers, trolls, pubg extreme players, is that really important? I have no skills about building ROMs or kernels and i'll never try to do this but, why we can't just ignore this kind of people? Why all users need to lose a good ROM (i've installed AOSiP once, and i've loved it) for those spammers?
I really hope to see AOSiP team again here in our subforum, i haven't followed this question and this is just a personal thing, but it's nice to see people on this argument.
(Sorry for my english, i have no skills on languages too )
Totally man..these devs act so mature and stuff still do retarded stuff and blame the trolls (what was the whole point of telegram group?)
.
I'm gonna give slow claps to the devs who did this experiment.
Good job you won.
.
And when it comes to this case it's not the trolls who are spreading the cancer its the...you know who.
.
SRF (the dev of pureCaf) is such a humble guy and these guys HAD to F him up.
.
Anyways I'm glad that you (the ones that did this experiment) have stopped developing ?.
We have many humble and intelligent devs who dont do stupid stuff and blame it on trolls and don't ruin other devs life.
.
Peace.
I would agree with OP on some points, including that the experiment in question was debatable because it "contained" someone's work and it had directly impacted him.
But on another note, the experiment of similar sort was desperately needed to prove a point, which many people seem to have missed.
It was not aimed at PureCAF dev and his kernel per se, it was aimed at Whyred users of different profiles who have couple of things in common - disrespect, 0 knowledge, impatience and just bad manners in summary. I have been pissed of numerous times here because I try to add something useful to disscussion and development in a way, to help other users and devs, and then comes the horde of 10 users after my post with the exact same question which I (or anyone else) have answered, not to mention that there were numerous idiotic feature requests and useless bug reports.
One thing you have to remember, the ones who have issues will always be more vocal than those who don't. We all give feedback in threads of course, but you don't suddenly jump in PM to say hey great work, everything works, keep it up, where as those badly mannered people will spam PM's if something doesn't get fixed or even their request doesn't get considered, and those people will turn to disrespect, which has been shown here frequently.
The experiment was just a tip of the iceberg, because this kind of harassment goes way way back, and with presence of Telegram as an instant messaging app, you as a known dev are fuc*ed up.
The placebo effect, which is a powerful thing sometimes, has once again proved how many clueless people are present in this forums, and how much they have an impact on community nowadays.
I have used AOSiP + Derp for a long time, and my device has performed great with that combo since June last year, but others had issues, and that's expected as although our devices are basically the same, not all electronic devices are created equal.
And have to add, I have previously used 3 flagship devices from Samsung (older ones) and Sony and no, the community there wasn't even close to this.
Nah..the point of the experiment is great, a lil bit controvery move but I agree with them.
But I don't like some part of their last statement that seems attacking purecaf dev, as far as I know srf never talk bad about them, It is some users and adi (bootlegger dev) who mock derp because rom devs change to purecaf, but once again afaik srf never do that.
In the end everyone react very poorly in this situation, looking for someone to blame in this situation is not a solution.
We (user and dev) must respect each other, mocking other dev is never good, even it is only a joke.
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
alexmason90 said:
Sir i think derp kernel mad because everyone changing from him
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Nah, it was much more than that, it pre-dates even this situation with PureCAF.
Guys, you'll need to see the wider picture, PureCAF kernel was not the problem, it was just the last straw. The problem lies within the community, in the nagging users themselves and the pressure they have been putting on devs.
I was expecting something similiar, I'm even surprised that it took this long, however the handling of the situation could have been better, I admit.
It's just some little kids fight, almost funny to watch actually. Ambitious and jealous people are like this, they have a tense nature.
Also, I don't believe XDA management is compotent enough. Even the website is using an outdated design and broken some parts.
Anyway, this was surely interesting to watch.
I've not read every single post, but none the less:
I've been with XDA since March of 2011. I lurked at least a year or so before that. I joined with my first smartphone ever, the HTC Desire. With every smartphone i've owned since, i was active in their respective forums. And from my personal (non scientific) feelings, the XDA community has been getting progressively "worse". I fondly remember the days where we spend days and weeks in threads talking about how to get android 4 to boot on hopefully outdated Hardware. Minor achievements where shared, several people where collectively working on something while having a nice and technical discussion. I loved coming here to hang out with the geeks and talk about the things i enjoy most.
But lately, i've just not bothered. It might be because it's my first Xiaomi, and the community is different from Samsung or HTC. I have not logged in in over 4 weeks and after coming back today i have not found a single thread that's actually usefull. Sure, Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it. I won't **** on anyone actually putting his work out here. I highly appreciate that. But i feel the Gold Rush of Android development is done. And now here we are, complaining about what devs should and shouldn't do, and making the 100th thread about what rom has the best batterylife. I feel like most people that come here don't even care to do the bare minimum of research. That's frustrating. This used to be a place for people who enjoyed mobile devices and hacking on them as a hobby. Not a customer support forum for people not getting 20 hours of Screen on Time.
Yes, releasing a ROM with advertised changes you didn't make, and in the process using a devs name for work he didn't do is not a nice move. I can see where they are coming from and why they did what they did. It used to be a major offense against the devs to even ask for Features or ETAs. It was just not tolerated basically. We are basically doing open source development here. Want something done? Well bad luck. Do it yourself or wait for someone to do it. You are not paying anyone to do the work. Be greatfull for what our devs do and stop asking for more. If you want more, or faster, do it yourself.
I personally don't get anything of value out of XDA anymore. I've always been here to be part of the process. To be at the forefront of what's possible in mobile tech. I wanted experimental stuff and see things break for the sake of it. I enjoyed talking to devs about the process and getting insight into what's happening behind the scenes. I never came to XDA for the "best battery backup rom" out there. This is a community of interested people. Not a customer Support forum.
@domsch1988
it's not your personal feelings, it's the true fact
I think all the old users here feel the same, I've learnt alooooooooot from this community and I'm really grateful to everyone I've got something from him but now everything is really weird!
And i really liked this "Rom Releases are nice, but it feels a lot like Linux Distributions. All the same stuff with a different wallpaper and name on it" , it's like we are in Olympics, tons of ROMS and sharing the same bugs and sometimes full of bugs like the earlier releases of every android pie ROM here once Pie was out, why everyone was in a hurry to give a full of bugs ROM? glory or first Pie ROM maybe? instead of squashing the bugs and giving 3 or 4 perfect ROMS every day a new ROM with the same ****, and it's not only that, half of the ROMS now have 3 versions, the official, the modded or unofficial one and the one on telegram (the new disaster on XDA) WTF? and 90% of the developers here are not responding to any inquiries, yeah, i can clearly notice that.
Why they aren't working together and give their best instead of this mess if they really want to serve this community? I've seen many users here complain that they are confused and don't know which is better or with less bugs or will get regular updates.....etc.
About (the majority) on this community i think there's no need to talk since i really get bored and nothing will ever change here, sad but true.
And finally a new dev came here and gave us a prefect kernel and now he is involved without making any mistake, his crime is that he refused to see his work is being used from the others and without even asking or mentioning him, LOL!
Everything is getting worse here, and unfortunately from all not only the users.
Btw, Thanks for this post :good:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
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Gandhi70 said:
One quick reply: the general decline in the community is not specific for XDA, it is a general phenomena concerning the internet. In the beginning mostly the geeks and nerds used the internet. Now everyone is literally always online. Of course this includes all the idiots and a...holes, too.
And because most people think that nobody knows who they are while posting on the internet, civility went down the drain, too.
Gesendet von meinem MI PAD 4 PLUS mit Tapatalk
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Since we are in a general talk topic I just want to say that this is the best and the KISS explanation ever given in forum. This really small paragraph you wrote can easily explain on it's own what happened to all technical communities!!!