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build quality and bugz

short story::my phone needs replacing Baad...
all phones i consider are expensive yet have biig probs..
either build quality, light bleeds, creaks.. some important features touted by manufacturers just dont work;.. amaze rec'd audio etc..
seems like ppl put up w/ probs that kill a percentage of usabilities that are not disclosed at time of purchase..
phones already obsolete w/in several months, so it seems like they should be built well and all features work w/o surprises..
for now i mainly care about htc amaze but im spooked for some build quality issues and features not working well..
i will wait to see what samsung nexus galaxy shakes out, but im not confident about samsung...
tahnx

amkaos said:
short story::my phone needs replacing Baad...
all phones i consider are expensive yet have biig probs..
either build quality, light bleeds, creaks.. some important features touted by manufacturers just dont work;.. amaze rec'd audio etc..
seems like ppl put up w/ probs that kill a percentage of usabilities that are not disclosed at time of purchase..
phones already obsolete w/in several months, so it seems like they should be built well and all features work w/o surprises..
for now i mainly care about htc amaze but im spooked for some build quality issues and features not working well..
i will wait to see what samsung nexus galaxy shakes out, but im not confident about samsung...
tahnx
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All issues I never had outside of android.

z33dev33l said:
All issues I never had outside of android.
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Right, because your phone is obsolete before it gets unboxed!

For what reason? My processor is outdated? The only reason phones even have such processors is because android can barely remain usable without it. My phone runs much smoother on my 1.4 GHz processor and mine will continue to receive updates. Man, it's awesome to have a phone that won't be bested in another week or two.

z33dev33l said:
All issues I never had outside of android.
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Coincidentally, I never had any of those issues with Android. Hmm..
EDIT:
z33dev33l said:
For what reason? My processor is outdated? The only reason phones even have such processors is because android can barely remain usable without it. My phone runs much smoother on my 1.4 GHz processor and mine will continue to receive updates. Man, it's awesome to have a phone that won't be bested in another week or two.
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Just because a newer phone is released does not make your phone any less good. You are stuck in a consumer mindset. It would be for your benefit to change that, otherwise you'll actually feel like your phone is crap after a new one is released—although, to be honest, that would explain every bad thing you've ever said about Android.
Android is quite usable, in my opinion. And while your phone may run smooth with that processor, it probably couldn't handle the processor-intensive tasks that newer, up-to-date phones could. That is a selling feature for some people, believe it or not.

upichie said:
Coincidentally, I never had any of those issues with Android. Hmm..
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What phone do you have?
Kudos on avoiding HTC.

z33dev33l said:
What phone do you have?
Kudos on avoiding HTC.
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Oh, you were talking about HTC? I could have sworn you generalized all Android devices...
z33dev33l said:
All issues I never had outside of android.
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Yep, you sure did.

z33dev33l said:
What phone do you have?
Kudos on avoiding HTC.
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HTC Glacier...0 issues.

sounds like you are complaining about HTC
there are plenty of other manufactures to move onto
how about the new toilet proof Motorola Razr ?
it will sure keep dusts at bay
amkaos said:
short story::my phone needs replacing Baad...
all phones i consider are expensive yet have biig probs..
either build quality, light bleeds, creaks.. some important features touted by manufacturers just dont work;.. amaze rec'd audio etc..
seems like ppl put up w/ probs that kill a percentage of usabilities that are not disclosed at time of purchase..
phones already obsolete w/in several months, so it seems like they should be built well and all features work w/o surprises..
for now i mainly care about htc amaze but im spooked for some build quality issues and features not working well..
i will wait to see what samsung nexus galaxy shakes out, but im not confident about samsung...
tahnx
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Click to collapse

Oh I was talking about all android devices, HTC is just the worst of them. Each time they release a device, they release one a month or two later to trump them. When I was using android I literally had a new phone at least every 1-2 months. Their phones aren't made for the long run, they'll stop updating them and have new hardware out in a couple of months. Pretty much no OEM support at all after they leave their door. The glacier was cool when it was the alternative to the iPhone for decent video calling, now that that's largely unimportant the glacier is just another dated piece of hardware forgotten by HTC.

z33dev33l said:
Oh I was talking about all android devices, HTC is just the worst of them. Each time they release a device, they release one a month or two later to trump them. When I was using android I literally had a new phone at least every 1-2 months. Their phones aren't made for the long run, they'll stop updating them and have new hardware out in a couple of months. Pretty much no OEM support at all after they leave their door. The glacier was cool when it was the alternative to the iPhone for decent video calling, now that that's largely unimportant the glacier is just another dated piece of hardware forgotten by HTC.
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My current daily driver is nearing 2 years old now, and still has better hardware than phones released today (which doesn't matter, since better phones are out, right?). It received major updates multiple times throughout it's life, and thanks to it being an Android phone, I can continue to update it myself whenever I feel the need to do (which is a downside, because it somehow no longer works out of the box even after multiple updates, right?). I also never use a case, and it doesn't even have a scratch on it (which is unimpressive, since Nokia's are actually so scratch-resistant, that if you attempt to scratch it, it'll actually scratch you... right?).
But you're right. Build quality? Hardware? OEM support? Magic tricks? Clearly, Android pales in comparison to the competition (when you ignore facts).

z33dev33l said:
Oh I was talking about all android devices, HTC is just the worst of them. Each time they release a device, they release one a month or two later to trump them. When I was using android I literally had a new phone at least every 1-2 months. Their phones aren't made for the long run, they'll stop updating them and have new hardware out in a couple of months. Pretty much no OEM support at all after they leave their door. The glacier was cool when it was the alternative to the iPhone for decent video calling, now that that's largely unimportant the glacier is just another dated piece of hardware forgotten by HTC.
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Please tell me how it is a dated piece of hardware? It is on the current version of Android, it has a decent camera, it has a chip good enough to do what is available right now. As far as single core phones go, it is about as good as it gets.

While I agree that Android feels a bit rougher around the edges, iPhone and WP7 have bugs too. In fact show me a perfect OS and I'll fill_in_the_blank.
Your old dumb phone did 2-3 things, so bugs were easy to hash out. Smartphones can do ALOT more than laptops and their still in their relative infancy.
Your hardware issues however are the result of manufacture price cutting and a "get it out the door now" philosophy. It's a problem facing ALL manufactures. My battery cover started creaking 2 months after I bought it (no I didn't drop it).
To your point, yes cheap sh*t sold for top dollar is the norm.

The hardware pissing contest grows tiresome.

Since when did the best phone come down to the best CPU. If I licensed winmo 2003 and put it on a quad-core phone with 2 gigs of ram would it run smoother than even android? Let alone WP7 or iOS. Our hardware tech is years ahead of what our phones are capable of software-wise. Most of our highest-grade games run on a 1 GHz processor without fail. So, why has the best phone come down to a **** measuring contest of unnecessary and oft unused power?

You're missing an important point: the energy comsumption.
The current dual-cores are consuming less than the old 1-cores and the 4-cores will consume even less energy (smaller size = less consumption), thus increasing battery life.
And I also do not agree on your definition of "phone". Until now our phones are "local minor PCs", but as soon as ICS is expanded and it has USB HOST and so, we should be able to connect a keyboard, mouse and screen to the device and just drop our entire pc-tower to the dust.
It's evolution.

It ensures that the software of tomorrow will work on the hardware of today. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp. Same thing with laptops. They used to be useless after a year, now they last much longer.
And I know you will probably say "but not all phones are getting ICS!" But the fact is, all of the high end phones will get it, even if it is supplied by a third party.

lowandbehold said:
It ensures that the software of tomorrow will work on the hardware of today. It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp. Same thing with laptops. They used to be useless after a year, now they last much longer.
And I know you will probably say "but not all phones are getting ICS!" But the fact is, all of the high end phones will get it, even if it is supplied by a third party.
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Exactly. And the high end phones being the ones with these crazy processors. Because of that they will be ready for future software.
By the way, thanks for starting this flame session z33. Wonder how long it'll take to get the thread locked...
Sent from my Samsung Infuse

Android isn't resource hungry in the sense that it needs ridiculous specs to run. Even ICS, given the source and such, should run on the old snapdragons and even the 800Mhz g2 processors before over-clocking, so still, it's not really necessary. As far as energy consumption goes, there's only one OS that eats batteries and that's due to the lack of optimization of code. I just don't believe hardware should be the defining factor when purchasing a phone unless its form factor or a feature.

z33dev33l said:
Android isn't resource hungry in the sense that it needs ridiculous specs to run. Even ICS, given the source and such, should run on the old snapdragons and even the 800Mhz g2 processors before over-clocking, so still, it's not really necessary. As far as energy consumption goes, there's only one OS that eats batteries and that's due to the lack of optimization of code. I just don't believe hardware should be the defining factor when purchasing a phone unless its form factor or a feature.
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But you don't know what might come out tomorrow, or next week, or next year. Better to be prepared than stuck buying another $500 phone.

The pissing contest is the same mindless garbage that we see in any other hobbyist group, whether it's PCs, cars, motorcycles or penis pumps. It's about some OCDer's ability to waste endless amounts of time tweaking to wring a few last numbers out on a synthetic benchmark that only fellow OCDers will give two sh*ts about. The answer is simple. Some people enjoy making technology better, others are just plain f*cking stupid. If they spent as much time picking up a book and learning to code, or do anything remotely useful at all... you know, doing something to contribute as they did stroking themselves about having a high score on a benchmark, we'd have more and better apps, they'd have money in their wallets, and we wouldn't have forums so full of nonsense.

lowandbehold said:
But you don't know what might come out tomorrow, or next week, or next year. Better to be prepared than stuck buying another $500 phone.
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This is the reason most software companies in the cellphone industry offer at least two years guaranteed support. It just happens to be the length of the contract. I was once a victim of the hardware pissing contest, I literally swapped phones sometimes 3 times a month just constantly upgrading.

z33dev33l said:
This is the reason most software companies in the cellphone industry offer at least two years guaranteed support. It just happens to be the length of the contract. I was once a victim of the hardware pissing contest, I literally swapped phones sometimes 3 times a month just constantly upgrading.
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I would rather not be guaranteed 2 year software support. All that means to me is a guarantee that my software has no chance of catching up to the hardware...for the sake of their "guarantee".

Most? Are you new here. Remember WinMo updates. WP has been out for a year, so you're making assumptions there. The only company that has supported their phones for two years is google with the Nexus phones and Apple since the older models reduce capacity and serve as their mid range offerings.
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Even the old iPhones have the two year support range.
Lowandbehold, software isn't catching up to hardware any time soon considering every mobile OS still runs fine on a 1 GHz processor

z33dev33l said:
Even the old iPhones have the two year support range.
Lowandbehold, software isn't catching up to hardware any time soon considering every mobile OS still runs fine on a 1 GHz processor
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So you claim to be a dev and a tech geek yet you are complaining about OEM's pushing the envelope? What kind of person wants technology to stop evolving?

slapshot30 said:
Exactly. And the high end phones being the ones with these crazy processors. Because of that they will be ready for future software.
By the way, thanks for starting this flame session z33. Wonder how long it'll take to get the thread locked...
Sent from my Samsung Infuse
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so in what? 4 years? When android can take advantage of dual core, you'll pull out the old gs2 that you've upgraded twice from and say, "wow, this phone can't run one specific game that my new octa-core phone does." For such a privilege you sacrifice OEM support as a whole. Yay, logic.

lowandbehold said:
So you claim to be a dev and a tech geek yet you are complaining about OEM's pushing the envelope? What kind of person wants technology to stop evolving?
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I simply don't see why the hardware is the biggest deal. We are a developer community and until software can keep up with hardware then there's simply no point. If everything runs flawlessly on a 1gig processor, why is that considered low-end.

z33dev33l said:
I simply don't see why the hardware is the biggest deal. We are a developer community and until software can keep up with hardware then there's simply no point. If everything runs flawlessly on a 1gig processor, why is that considered low-end.
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The only thing pointless is this thread. You really thing technology should come to a halt.

Not at all, I just think that software should be more important than hardware when choosing a phone

Because compared to the new phones it is. Not saying that those (low end) phones aren't fast (or fast enough) on wp7 or any other os but since the bar has been raised, their low end.
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z33dev33l said:
Not at all, I just think that software should be more important than hardware when choosing a phone
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And it is to some people and not to others. Stop trying to force feed your beliefs onto others. Well, actually android is the better software as well...for my needs.

mkropf said:
Because compared to the new phones it is. Not saying that those (low end) phones aren't fast (or fast enough) on wp7 or any other os but since the bar has been raised their low end.
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but this only works on android. Other OSes are smoother than android on three year old hardware. So, in cross-platform arguments it's annoying.

Does anyone else feel that battery tech hasn't even caught up with the new hardware?

Am I being too overly fearful?

My cellphone history:
Cell phone - Bought for - Sold for - Used for
Nokia X6 - 250 $ - 180$ - 2 months
Sony Ericsson Xperia X10i - 250$ - 220$ - 2 months
Apple iPhone 3gs - 300$ - 100$ - 1 year
HTC Incredible S - 250$ - 180$ - 1 month
I have had other cell phones in the gaps but I don't remember them, the prices or the time used for.
So here is my story, I have had the need to buy a cellphone in the recent days and I have been following the market too. I first wanted an HTC Sensation which was for 320$, 3 months earlier, but now, I can find the same one for 210$ or something. I then wanted a Samsung Galaxy S 2 which was available for 380$ 2 months before but now I can find one for 260$ or less. The same goes with other cell phones I have been following (much of stalking).
Living in a country where I get 15$ a month for my pocket money, you can understand the importance of even 1$ for me. 10$ here means a lot for some people. I can get a Nokia 1280 or a Nokia 1202 for 10$, so, that explains the story. Being the guy who loves new technology, I want to get the best technology around me and get one which can get me through a period of 1 - 2 years without being called outdated or old. From the above history, you can know that I have used the iPhone 3gs for 1 year or even more time than that due to the fact that Apple gives update to most of it's devices (starting from 3gs), I was happy with it but that's the time when the iPhone 4s came to the market and I had to bear a loss of 200$. That loss meant a lot to me. It brought down to the earth from the sky. There aren't any companies which offer contracts which are good. I then think that I should wait for the next model to release because I want to buy an older model because it would fall cheaper.
This is being too big, long story short. Any cellphone that comes to the market losses it's value within a new cellphone from that company. Since I want to buy a phone and not bear a big loss the next time and have the best technology at the same that, I can't decide to buy a cellphone because I am being fearful because if I buy a cellphone, it might loss it's value tomorrow when a better one comes to the market and I will have to bear a great loss again. I was just wondering if I am being too fearful regarding this matter.
Can anyone advise me what to do because I am confused a LOT?
Note: All the phones talked about above are second hands because I can't offered new ones.

Thats the way it is with technology, especially in the fast paced mobile market. New models are always coming out and devices depreciate very quickly. You want a phone that can work for your needs, it doesn't have to be the lastest and greatest if your needs don't require high end hardware.
iPhones do get supported quite a while in new OS versions, but for older devices the OS can be stripped of new features like Siri. iPhones are also more expensive because you are paying for the brand name. If you want an Android device that stays up to date for a while, get a Nexus device. But you don't need to be on the latest and greatest phone with the newest version of Android. Find something you like and can afford and buy it. Don't assume it will get any OS updates if its an older or uncommon device. And don't pay attention to its resale value, technology loses its value fast.

I kinda wonder why it is more important to you what your phone costs than what it can do for you. Personally, I don't care at all about value loss. I list the features I want and then go for the cheapest model that has them. The phone then gets used till it either breaks down or is lost.

spunker88 said:
Thats the way it is with technology, especially in the fast paced mobile market. New models are always coming out and devices depreciate very quickly. You want a phone that can work for your needs, it doesn't have to be the lastest and greatest if your needs don't require high end hardware.
iPhones do get supported quite a while in new OS versions, but for older devices the OS can be stripped of new features like Siri. iPhones are also more expensive because you are paying for the brand name. If you want an Android device that stays up to date for a while, get a Nexus device. But you don't need to be on the latest and greatest phone with the newest version of Android. Find something you like and can afford and buy it. Don't assume it will get any OS updates if its an older or uncommon device. And don't pay attention to its resale value, technology loses its value fast.
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Sorry but the talk isn't about getting an iPhone or an Android. Not that you are provoking a war or something. I just liked the way it was, simple and stable. I can't recall any crash on the OS or anything. Anyway, the topic is being turned away. The basic meaning of getting an update is that most of the new applications are supported by the latest OS. Having OS 4.3.3 won't get you the Facebook application because it isn't supported, likewise, you can't get Google Chrome application on anything below 4.0.4 on Android, that's where it starts to suck.
I have to agree that technology loses a lot of value in a very short time. I was just wondering if I was being too fearful. I can't even decide on something.
onyxbits said:
I kinda wonder why it is more important to you what your phone costs than what it can do for you. Personally, I don't care at all about value loss. I list the features I want and then go for the cheapest model that has them. The phone then gets used till it either breaks down or is lost.
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In my case it does, specially with the case that I want an upgraded chipset model when it becomes cheaper.

I recommend purchasing a device second hand if you haven't decided that already, but with fairly good dev support and a large community.
EDIT: that way ROMs running latest firmware which would be delayed or discontinued on your handset, will come your way in just a matter of time
Galaxy nexus, or S2 would be smart options imo
Sent from my GT-I9300

Yea, would agree with 23Six. Galaxy Nexus or SGS2 (if SGS2, try to get the I9100 as there are a couple of variants and the I9100 has a wider dev base). With the Nexus, OS updates are pretty much as soon as Google releases them AFAIK. The SGS2 should be at a relatively good price point and shouldn't depreciate too much further since the SGS3 is out and SGS4 sounds to be in the pipeline.

It's a lot of money - but it's up to you if it's worth it.
One thing I think that's keeping you back is that you are looking at price to determine value. Price doesn't tell you if something is still a good phone, if the phone can still do what you need.
"Keeping up with technology" is an expensive hobby - but it's just a hobby, it's not necessary. You can buy a phone and keep it for two years, no problem - and it will probably be just fine unless you lose it or break it. Your iPhone 3 was still just fine and wasn't a $200 loss when the iPhone 4 came out. You had the phone for a period of time before the price dropped - it will ALWAYS be cheaper to wait, and you can wait literally forever.
I agree with onyxbits - figure out what you really want from a phone and then figure out which model best meets your needs for a price you're okay with. Setting a budget can help you narrow it down instead of feeling pressured and unsure.

I actually WANT to pay more for my phones, and here is why?

With iPhones beginning to show its age, and Android phones coming out with faster processors, more PPI, and more premium materials, I think Android is in a prime position to take the crown here. But with this fierce competition, I'm starting to notice more and more quality control issues, weird design decisions, and what seems to be less-than-thorough testing before release.
Take the HTC One and Galaxy S4 for example. Both are getting high praises from reviewers, and people are generally happy with these devices. But looking at the forums here, the problems that people have about these phone are glaring and very noticeable but at the same time not necessary/innate, meaning that it could have been easily avoided by both manufactures with just a bit more attention to detail, better testing, and better quality control. The shear number of people who have dead pixels on their HTC One is mind boggling for example, where they have to go through exchange after exchange in order to get one without dead pixels. Looking at one of the poles, 60% reported at least one defective pixel! The lack of a menu button, or an out-of-the box option to long press for menu baffles me even more. Yes, you can root/unlock and mod the phone (and maybe lose your warranty or brick it), but how about that person who is switching from an iPhone to an HTC One who has no desire to modify their phone? Are they not going to be turned off by that ugly black box taking up an appreciable portion of their screen real estate? Then there are many people who are turned off by the gaps in HTC claimed "zero" gap design. Again doing exchange, after exchange in order to get a "good one".
Same story with the S4 with its lags, screen smearing, the always-on red pixels.....and now they are trying to fix these issues with firmware updates. These are problems that are apparent straight out of the box. Its not like HTC or Samsung could not have noticed them during testing. Someone didn't complain to HTC about that black box during testing? HTC couldn't require that a majority of its LCDs be free of pixel defect? Samsung didn't notice the ugly smearing in their menus, or the burgundy tinted blacks before release? None of the testers reported to Samsung about their god-awful Dialer app? (I'm talking about the ATT version, not sure about the international version here). No one noticed the glaring lag in at least some of the tested devices?
I mean, why shoot yourself in the foot with these easily avoidable problems? These phones are close to perfection, and in a strange way, it makes these kind of problems even harder to swallow. Why have all this great hardware under the hood, and then handicap it in the worst way with some stupid design decision, QC problems, or an obvious lack of usability testing prior to release?
Part of the problem might be that we are demanding more for our money. The 1080p LCD/AMOLED isn't cheap, machining a piece of aluminum isnt cheap, the Snapdraon 600 isn't cheap, Gorilla Glass 3 isnt cheap...so maybe Samsung/ HTC skimp on testing prior to release or demanding less from quality control. But is that what we want going forward? We all love new toys, but the joy and excitement of having a new gadget fades away quickly after you take it out of the box. Having to wait for firmware updates, or holding off to buy in hopes of a new stock, just makes the novelty fade away even quicker.
I for one would like cellphone manufacturers to take more of my money but give me a better product out of the box. Charge me more, but don't knowingly skimp somewhere. The more I think about it, the more I realize how cheap cellphones really are considering all the bells whistle they come with. I rarely use my laptop anymore unless I need to type up a paper or to do photo/video editing. I'm a gadget junky, through and through. Like many of you, I spend a good amount of my hard earned cash on newer and better TVs, cameras, game consoles, PC components, laptops, etc etc. But I must say, none of those have required more exchanges, more returns, and more DOH!s than cellphones.
My question to tech junkies and laymans alike is, where do you stand? would be willing to pay more than that ubiquitous $200 for a high-tiered subsidized phone, if you knew it was "Muaaaaaaaaaa" *kisses fingertips* out-of-the box and not have to wait for a firmware update? Would you pay more If you knew you wouldn't have to exchange it countless times in order to get a "good one"? How much more? .....or you could just say "Sam, you are an ass for typing all this"

$200?! What?!
The S4 is 649 euro's....
And you're asking if I'd be willing to pay even more?! What the hell do you expect us to pay, 1200 euros?!
Send From My Samsung Galaxy S3 Using Tapatalk 2

Pat. said:
Ass
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In response to your unedited post....the whole point is to not have to wait for these glaring bugs and QC issues to be fixed. By that time newer phones will be out.

ShadowLea said:
$200?! What?!
The S4 is 649 euro's....
And you're asking if I'd be willing to pay even more?! What the hell do you expect us to pay, 1200 euros?!
Send From My Samsung Galaxy S3 Using Tapatalk 2
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LOL No, no i wasnt suggesting anything that drastic. Maybe a 50 dollars/euros increase.
PC compenent manufacturers do something similar with their "binned" versions of hardware; where they cherry pick chips/ram/vrm/controllers and sell the finished product at a slightly higher price. im not saying we should necessarily have a "binned" and regular versions of phones, but what Im hoping for is for phone manufacturers to do better inspection, better testing, and hold higher standards for what they release out in the market, even if the price goes slightly above what the consumers are use to be paying

: D
yea fair enough, I just thought "Ass" was funnier.
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I'm with you, except I disagree with paying more. If these companies want to lead the market, they HAVE to test them thoroughly before they sell them. I will say that I think Google's level of testing is very high. For that reason, I think I'm only going to get Nexus phones until they give me a reason not to.

I would pay more for a phone if everything worked and was good quality. i mostly do development with my phones and the phone i have right now has always had gps issues with none of the fixes ive ever found to help. quality damnit!

Ecksera said:
I would pay more for a phone if everything worked and was good quality. i mostly do development with my phones and the phone i have right now has always had gps issues with none of the fixes ive ever found to help. quality damnit!
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I'm with you! You can change software but not quality hardware

LOL
:laugh:
very long article. i would like to pay more only if i found it is worth , for example the hardwarequality , antishock , and more

I think the biggest problem is not in the price pressure, but in the time pressure. We want more and more quickly. The time it takes for device development (both hardware and software) is getting shorter. This means that engineers have less time to polish the device and hence the initial releases can be at most considered early beta releases.
Of course you can try to leverage that by employing more engineers, but this won't buy you much time.
So instead of offering more money for a phone I'd rather suggest giving the manufacturers more time to thoroughly develop and test their toys before launching them.

Mitt Romney jr, is that you?

KrissN said:
I think the biggest problem is not in the price pressure, but in the time pressure. We want more and more quickly. The time it takes for device development (both hardware and software) is getting shorter. This means that engineers have less time to polish the device and hence the initial releases can be at most considered early beta releases.
Of course you can try to leverage that by employing more engineers, but this won't buy you much time.
So instead of offering more money for a phone I'd rather suggest giving the manufacturers more time to thoroughly develop and test their toys before launching them.
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I agree. I think the manufacturers know how to make good hardware and software they are just rushed to release a new phone before their competitor releases theirs. Maybe phones could be released like cars. Then we could all wonder what the "2014's will look like".
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JustLiveIt said:
I agree. I think the manufacturers know how to make good hardware and software they are just rushed to release a new phone before their competitor releases theirs. Maybe phones could be released like cars. Then we could all wonder what the "2014's will look like".
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I think we're reaching that point now, actually, or not far from it. This new x phone that leaked it a great example. Last year's hardware, but the idea is probably going to be more about good battery life or something like that.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

lol if someone if switching from Apple, it tends to be for better reason than never-modding or some stock FW aesthetic.
Honestly, ~$600-850 for new phones that are marginally better than last quarter's is already asking quite a bit, so even more and I'll just go back to old brick phones for all the right reasons.
Also our US carriers butchering hardware for god knows what purpose into clunky excuses for what originals were supposed to be.
I'm not really all that happy with the whole smartphone boom over the past 4 years. I quite enjoyed when these toys required proper owners who even knew of their existence.

I DO NOT want to pay more for a phone.
Why ?
Because the $600 or $700 tag already is several hundred dollars over material cost. Yes, they need to account for labour, shipping, and profit but take a look at Google and the Nexus line. Is it because Google can afford to take a loss on the hardware knowing that by using it you'll drive their revenue ? I don't think they would sell at a loss, but I'm open to being moderately surprised if that is the case. I'd guess they're breaking even.
There's no point in paying more for things that could be improved at the same price-point and still drive profit.
What WOULD help ?
Stop signing contracts that screw you for a subsidized phone. They have no incentive to make those phones as perfect as they can - they need some reason for you to keep re-signing that contract two years from now - they WANT you to be wanting to get rid of that phone. Why would they keep updating the firmware when they don't even want you to be using it two years from now ? Why not just have you keep paying them high monthly fees so you can get a "newer and better" phone for cheap (a cost they'll recover from you and then some) ?
What would help is people moving to buying their phones outright and demanding more for what they are paying - driving the market by where they're willing to spend money.
I don't think the components of a smartphone are "not cheap". They kind of are since the material cost is only $2-300. That's less than a decent desktop PC. Yes, it's a decent chunk of change but we're talking smartphones here, they're nice to have but still a luxury good (although I'd agree that a regular cell phone is not a luxury in this day and age). Many people pay more than $300 for a pair of shoes - a pair of Allen Edmonds is $350 ffs and that's $350 on some leather and stitching that people get romantic about - not an electronic device that can pinpoint your location by GPS, holy your music library, and play Netflix. A smartphone is a tiny computer, I would expect it to be priced as such.
So, no, please don't "charge me more" when there is no reason to. Please just have some quality control, although I don't really think it's a big deal because I'm not picky I guess. O well.

The theory behind what you're saying makes sense, but in reality at least here in Canada the prices have already increased a lot the past 3 years.
HTC desire came out almost 3 years ago here in Canada and it was the flagship phone. Full price no contract was $449.99. Then the HTC desire HD came out as its predecessor and it was $499. The desire z was also 499 launching around that time too.
The HTC one s was I think $550 and the one x $599 but dont quote me on that.
Now the HTC one is $650 and others from Samsung are $700. Iphones have always been more but I'm pretty sure they have been increasing steadily as well. So really how much do you want them to increase it? I take it you're very wealthy. Lol
Sent from my Desire HD using xda app-developers app

You're paying for the brand most of the time.. not actual quality

KrissN said:
I think the biggest problem is not in the price pressure, but in the time pressure. We want more and more quickly. The time it takes for device development (both hardware and software) is getting shorter. This means that engineers have less time to polish the device and hence the initial releases can be at most considered early beta releases.
Of course you can try to leverage that by employing more engineers, but this won't buy you much time.
So instead of offering more money for a phone I'd rather suggest giving the manufacturers more time to thoroughly develop and test their toys before launching them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd agree with that.. I honestly don't see it as as price issue. The life cycles of new phones currently is ridiculous. It seem like by the time one concept is finalized they move on to "the next big thing" and try to mass produce as many of the currently "new" product before next version is released, sometimes in less than a year.

I' m good with mine...
To be completely honest, I got my phone for.99 cents and have never been happier...I don't need multi window nonsense on it and with dev ROMs on here I am fixing to get 4.2.2. So for that price who cares if it burns up but my first and only one is bug free and fast after the OC kernel soooo....
sent from my SGH-I577/Slimbean/1.5oc LZ kernel

I'm not sure how much benefit a manufacturer has to gain from creating a premium smartphone.
Such a project will cost untold amounts of resources with no real promise of consumer acceptance.
Apple pretty much set the precedent for competitive pricing with the $200 subsidized price tag. It has become the main reference point when consumers consider their purchases. New Android phone, specs x, y, and z for $300. Well, the immediate thought is going to be... "so what makes this so great that it is $100 above the iPhone's price tag?"
That is why I think the smartphone market does not have room for a "high end", because the $200 range is already a high end.

Essential 2 possibility?

I'm starting to look for a new phone and the Essential has piqued my interest, but, it seems like there have been quite a few start up problems associated with new products.
So, since the World Mobile Congress is happening at the end of the month and Essential has a spot reserved in it, I was wondering if there has been any leaks, rumors or news associated with it? I was hoping for news of an Essential 2 or a ph-2? New release? Anything?
Thx.

Probably just new colors and accessories. They have their hands full dealing with the PH-1.
Sent from my Essential PH-1 using Tapatalk

Maybe they will showcase new PH-1 accessories that they have no intention of ever making. LOL

Just maybe, Essential is winding down their beta project (PH-1) and is focused on their first truly production phone.

artiemon said:
Just maybe, Essential is winding down their beta project (PH-1) and is focused on their first truly production phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe... Although with this phone flopping the way it did, I don't know how much I would invest in the next phone if I were them or their investors... The PH-1 was a failure. They lost money on every unit they sold. If Andy had not raised so much capital to keep them afloat, they would have closed their doors by now.
The vision was ambitious and great. The execution, not so much.

There are a lot of B.S. articles out there no doubt, and there were some growing pains... But I wouldn't give up my PH-1 for any other phone right now. I love it... no case since launch, and still looks great, camera is pretty good now. battery life spectacular, Looking forward to whatever they have to offer next

dca1970 said:
There are a lot of B.S. articles out there no doubt, and there were some growing pains... But I wouldn't give up my PH-1 for any other phone right now. I love it... no case since launch, and still looks great, camera is pretty good now. battery life spectacular, Looking forward to whatever they have to offer next
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like most things about it. I am just annoyed at bugs, and the progression of updates isn't as good as I would have hoped. Yes, they put out 16 camera updates over 5 months, but that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement... that they HAD to put out so many updates just to get the camera up to "mediocre" status... LOL
Like anything, if it works for you and makes you happy, enjoy it! I am just on the fence with it...

SquireSCA said:
Maybe... Although with this phone flopping the way it did, I don't know how much I would invest in the next phone if I were them or their investors... The PH-1 was a failure. They lost money on every unit they sold. If Andy had not raised so much capital to keep them afloat, they would have closed their doors by now.
The vision was ambitious and great. The execution, not so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Failure?
You need to define failure.
I have a friend on Sprint that has hated just about every phone she had Android and iPhone.
She absolutely loves the PH-1.
I have a PH-1 and it is by far the best phone I've owned.
Here is my list that I've owned:
SCH-i600W (Windows flip phone)
SCH-i760
Treo 700W
BB Storm 1
BB Storm 2
DroidX
Droid Bionic
Droid Razr
Droid Razr Maxx
Galaxy S4
LG G3
iPhone 6 plus
Nexus 6P
LG G6
Essential PH-1
There are some true failures in that list.
If you want to base success on how many sold you might be right.
What they learned though was how difficult it is to launch a device.
They leaned to roll out updates.
They learned how they need to support customers.
They learned how to partner, although they picked a crappy one (Sprint).
But overall as a new player in the high end market, I wouldn't call them a failure.

Failure defined by sales numbers and how much money they lost on this phone.

SquireSCA said:
Yeah, few failures on that list. I have had a few that were not on the list as well, I am betting that we all have.
One thing that I will say, and this is based on several tech articles that I have read in the past couple weeks, is that the market is changing a bit. It's not the wide open market that it was in a lot of ways, even just a few years ago. One article pointed out that a company like OnePlus, got really lucky. They hit at the right time, but for someone else to do it again in 2017/18 faces more challenges.
Oh well, time will tell I guess.
I love new products and the more there are, the more competition there is. I don't want a world made up of just Apple and Samsung. But we are gonna have to sift through a few lemons to find that occasional diamond in the rough...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering that Google only sold ~4 Million of Pixel and Pixel 2 phones of all types last year, calling the Essential a complete failure might be a bit premature.
The sales numbers might be low, but I think that this is just indicative of how difficult it is to compete with Apple and Samsung and nothing else.
I like innovative an new products.
No matter what they say about Essential, they were first to the party with a phone that had a huge screen and minimal bezels.
They have a build quality and hand feel second to none.
I don't plan on replacing this phone for a while.
I only with I could get a Poetic Affinity case. That is my favorite case and I've had one on my last three phones.

To be fair, 80k is a lot less than 4 mill. Lol

SquireSCA said:
To be fair, 80k is a lot less than 4 mill. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
88K.
But think about the size of the companies and length of time in the market.
Google had all year and only sold 4 Million. That's 333K per month. That's a rally low number.
Essential started shipping in the second half of the year and was an unknown company.
So if you put it into perspective. We don't know if the company is a failure or not, is all I'm saying.
The time on the market is not statistically significant enough to draw any conclusion.
I just know I like my PH-1.

88k shipped, not sold. Plus, how many returns?

Sorry guys. Didn't mean to start a phone bashing thread.

No bashing. The situation is what it is.

gimpy1 said:
Sorry guys. Didn't mean to start a phone bashing thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://www.cnet.com/news/essential-teases-something/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0e&linkId=48081019
Sent from my PH-1 using XDA Labs

Hmm....
So this is the choice i have. start giving out warnings/infractions or you all have a civilized conversation without name callings of any sort or bashing each other ?
You all don't need to reply just answer yourself and proceed as i know what i would be doing next if this continues.
Thread cleaned.

I hope the company survives. Overall I am pretty happy with my PH-1. I much prefer it to any Scamsung product. And everywhere you go, Samsung and Apple are the only choices. That needs to end. Can't find an HTC anywhere to put my hands on despite it being critically acclaimed as one of the best devices of 2017. Pathetic. I asked about the PH-1 at Best Buy and the employee said they might have 1 in the back but there just wasn't enough display space. They had about 30 Samsung and iPhones on display though.....

chiadrum said:
I hope the company survives. Overall I am pretty happy with my PH-1. I much prefer it to any Scamsung product. And everywhere you go, Samsung and Apple are the only choices. That needs to end. Can't find an HTC anywhere to put my hands on despite it being critically acclaimed as one of the best devices of 2017. Pathetic. I asked about the PH-1 at Best Buy and the employee said they might have 1 in the back but there just wasn't enough display space. They had about 30 Samsung and iPhones on display though.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the my PH-1 and you'll need to pry it from my cold dead hands.
I can't think of any other phone I like better.
I just wish that Poetic made the Affinity case for the PH-1. :crying:

tech_head said:
Considering that Google only sold ~4 Million of Pixel and Pixel 2 phones of all types last year, calling the Essential a complete failure might be a bit premature.
The sales numbers might be low, but I think that this is just indicative of how difficult it is to compete with Apple and Samsung and nothing else.
I like innovative an new products.
No matter what they say about Essential, they were first to the party with a phone that had a huge screen and minimal bezels.
They have a build quality and hand feel second to none.
I don't plan on replacing this phone for a while.
I only with I could get a Poetic Affinity case. That is my favorite case and I've had one on my last three phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering that officially they only sell in the US...
It is a new product. I doubt anybody would expect too a million phones in 3 months or something.
Has some issues, yes. First gen stuff always does. Even second and third gen do.
Works Ok for a first gen. Does what I need to do.
I don't have brand loyalty to anything, may buy something else in a few months. Maybe even a PH-2...