Related
http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-sues-teen-who-sold-steve-wozniak-his-white-iphone-4/97249
Theres the link basically summarizing that apple decides to sue a teenager who sold white iphone 4 conversion kits he ordered from china early, and apple decides to sue his family for over 100k, im not gunna lie apple is starting to piss me of with there suing of samsung "copying" the iPhone and copying android with iOS 5, not to mention they called us copycats with our tablets that are VERY different from theres..
It's apple's time of the month.
+1 to that!!
While I don't agree with Apple suing the Teenager and targeting him first, the parts were also obtained illegally, and he had no permission to sell apples products. His parents also were in on it too, so it was more a family matter than just him. What they're suing him for is basically what he made, that seems pretty fair to me.
Also haters gonna hate. If Apple didn't bring out the ipad, the tablet market would still be tiny and almost non-existent. Same with the smart phone market, and same with the mp3 market. They don't create the markets, but they easily have a hand in shaping them to something bigger.
Read other articles too that explain the situation more.
http://www.cultofmac.com/teen-who-s...d-a-laywer-to-defend-himself-from-apple/97469
It’s a bit hard to parse what to think of all this. On one hand, it seems pretty bogus for Apple to be sending a team of lawyers into a meeting with a teenage kid who can’t afford representation, but on the other hand, it looks like Apple’s not really interested in taking this very far. After all, they’ve already filed motion to dismiss. My guess is they are just trying to make a public wrist-slap of the whole thing, and otherwise, let Fei get on with his life. But should proceedings really have even gotten this far to begin with?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said, I don't agree with Apple targeting him like that, but the kits weren't his to sell.
vbetts said:
While I don't agree with Apple suing the Teenager and targeting him first, the parts were also obtained illegally, and he had no permission to sell apples products. His parents also were in on it too, so it was more a family matter than just him. What they're suing him for is basically what he made, that seems pretty fair to me.
Also haters gonna hate. If Apple didn't bring out the ipad, the tablet market would still be tiny and almost non-existent. Same with the smart phone market, and same with the mp3 market. They don't create the markets, but they easily have a hand in shaping them to something bigger.
Read other articles too that explain the situation more.
http://www.cultofmac.com/teen-who-s...d-a-laywer-to-defend-himself-from-apple/97469
Like I said, I don't agree with Apple targeting him like that, but the kits weren't his to sell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's extremely refreshing to see someone who isn't completely stupidly blinded by Android fanboyism; someone who realizes that Android wouldn't be where it is now if Apple hadn't started this all.
Not mocking you, I'm serious. I've seen your posts and you seem to be among the few mature people on this forum.
LiquidSolstice said:
It's extremely refreshing to see someone who isn't completely stupidly blinded by Android fanboyism; someone who realizes that Android wouldn't be where it is now if Apple hadn't started this all.
Not mocking you, I'm serious. I've seen your posts and you seem to be among the few mature people on this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i feel a simple cease and desist letter would have been good enough. i dont consider myself as a fanboy but this. i dont think the need to sue him:
1. he was just trying to pay for school
2. all the clients that bought the kits had to take apart there phones thus voiding there warranty. so if they broke it then apple will charge full price to anyone who needed to get a replacement. more money for Steve.
they are makings him give all his money he made back to apple and shut down the site. if i were apple i would congratulate him and maybe make him a distributor.
Just return the damn parts.
100k for some kid and his family? Ridiculous.
The Tech Game said:
im not gunna lie apple is starting to piss me of
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Starting? Apple has never changed.
synisterwolf said:
i feel a simple cease and desist letter would have been good enough. i dont consider myself as a fanboy but this. i dont think the need to sue him:
1. he was just trying to pay for school
2. all the clients that bought the kits had to take apart there phones thus voiding there warranty. so if they broke it then apple will charge full price to anyone who needed to get a replacement. more money for Steve.
they are makings him give all his money he made back to apple and shut down the site. if i were apple i would congratulate him and maybe make him a distributor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Doesn't matter, he is still selling an illegal product. That being okay, then it must be okay for me to sell a product that's also illegal to put myself through school! Thinking heroine might fetch me a good amount.
2. That's on the client then, since they decided to buy the kit.
I don't think some of you realize that what he did was illegal. I will say it again, even though I've said it a couple of times. The way Apple went after this kid I'm against, but the kid should not be protected or above the law and should have known what he was getting himself into. Intel does the same thing when people leak pre production cpus. It's one thing if it's just the kid, but it's his kid and his parents and his parents are responsible for him. Even if they weren't in on it, they could have easily just have said no to this but didn't.
vbetts said:
1. Doesn't matter, he is still selling an illegal product. That being okay, then it must be okay for me to sell a product that's also illegal to put myself through school! Thinking heroine might fetch me a good amount.
2. That's on the client then, since they decided to buy the kit.
I don't think some of you realize that what he did was illegal. I will say it again, even though I've said it a couple of times. The way Apple went after this kid I'm against, but the kid should not be protected or above the law and should have known what he was getting himself into. Intel does the same thing when people leak pre production cpus. It's one thing if it's just the kid, but it's his kid and his parents and his parents are responsible for him. Even if they weren't in on it, they could have easily just have said no to this but didn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello.
Lam is claimed to have diluted and infringed Apple’s trademark – compromising its relationship with customers by causing confusion over whether there was an official release of the white iPhone 4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. See - U.S. "intellectual property" law has become a burden impossible to bear, which is being exported worldwide - like the ACTA crap. Retarded patents being granted by USPTO without any prior review, RIAA, MPAA etc. lobbying their laws thru to force virtually unlimited copyright duration, strip all fair use right from people etc.
This idiocy is harming progress. Who profits? Lawyers? Sure. Jobbers? Definitely. Lawmakers that take money from these lobbyists? You bet. Consumers? Hell no way.
He sold on as conversion kits at up to $295 a piece to those who couldn’t wait any longer for the device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. White iPhone 4, wheeeeeeeee. I must have it NOW, 111!!!!!!111!!
Let us shot the minor dead since our brainwashed iPhone fans are "confused". Go sue those who buy some Chinese piece of plastic skin worth of $0.50 for $295 and declare them mentally incompetent, first of all taking their voting right away from them.
I like how everyone is just preying on the obvious sensationalist nature of the article.
What he did was wrong, it doesn't matter if he was a minor, a girl, a monkey or Bob Saget, it's still wrong. Get it into your heads, and move the **** on.
LiquidSolstice said:
What he did was wrong, it doesn't matter if he was a minor, a girl, a monkey or Bob Saget, it's still wrong. Get it into your heads, and move the **** on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing being wrong here is Apple not realizing they have succeeded in brainwashing people so incredibly that they are willing to fork out $300 for a piece of useless plastic (the "conversion" kit.) - what a missed business opportunity. They could have spared loads of cash selling just the useless plastic instead of the whole phone. Buy a black iPhone and get a white skin for only $300 - wow, what a bargain. I can imagine millions of teenagers convincing their parents that this is definitely a musthave.
LiquidSolstice said:
It's extremely refreshing to see someone who isn't completely stupidly blinded by Android fanboyism; someone who realizes that Android wouldn't be where it is now if Apple hadn't started this all.
Not mocking you, I'm serious. I've seen your posts and you seem to be among the few mature people on this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Disliking one brand does not automatically make you a fanboy of another rival brand. Your generalisation fails.
Like Kayne West, like what they make, hate what they do.
hungry81 said:
Disliking one brand does not automatically make you a fanboy of another rival brand. Your generalisation fails.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously you don't know the difference between "disliking" a brand and having irrational hate for it. The majority of people posting in here have no real rational reason for their Apple hate, it's just all about how Android owners are "required by unwritten code of law" to hate all things Apple.
Apple's not perfect, but much of the reasoning I keep seeing for hating them is downright immature and retarded.
LiquidSolstice said:
Obviously you don't know the difference between "disliking" a brand and having irrational hate for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even irrational hatered of something does not automatically equal fanboisim for a rival brand, although it is equally as pointless as irrational devotion.
I can like several products and dislike others for many reasons without being a fanboy for any one of them.
Irrational devotion and defensiveness for a brand is a sign of fanboisim. Not bothering to research and just purchasing on company marketing or brand loyalty can be a result fanboisim.
LiquidSolstice said:
The majority of people posting in here have no real rational reason for their Apple hate, it's just all about how Android owners are "required by unwritten code of law" to hate all things Apple.
Apple's not perfect, but much of the reasoning I keep seeing for hating them is downright immature and retarded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am glad you can tell people what they think and why they think it. People like and dislike apple for a number of reasons. Conversely many of the reasons I see people telling me I should like apple I consider immature and retarded, and until I see features that appeal to me I shall not consider buying apple products.
hungry81 said:
Even irrational hatered of something does not automatically equal fanboisim for a rival brand, although it is equally as pointless as irrational devotion.
I can like several products and dislike others for many reasons without being a fanboy for any one of them.
Irrational devotion and defensiveness for a brand is a sign of fanboisim. Not bothering to research and just purchasing on company marketing or brand loyalty can be a result fanboisim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does when you supplement said irrational hate with further irrational/generalized/generic points about your preferred brand.
I am glad you can tell people what they think and why they think it. People like and dislike apple for a number of reasons. Conversely many of the reasons I see people telling me I should like apple I consider immature and retarded, and until I see features that appeal to me I shall not consider buying apple products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, because I've said somewhere in my post that I hate Apple or that you should like Apple. /s
Are you even reading the thread title? It's something a 10 year-old would say. If it was Google suing a minor, you can be damn sure the title would haven't been phrased the way it is. I'm not telling ANYONE what to think, I'm asking people to think about what they're saying. If you still want to **** on Apple, at least use mature reasoning, that's all I'm saying.It's like watching the console wars (360 vs PS3) and the combatants are all screaming tweens who play Modern Warfare and whose mothers just bought them their consoles
Please don't play stupid. The Android fanboyism is here, and rampant. Each line of the irrational insults and hate that iOS and Apple get on here further confirms to me that there are complete idiots who exist on this forum who don't understand what impact Apple has had on the mobile landscape.
You respect your rivals, you don't hate them. Even if you don't want to be remotely polite about them, the least you can do is ignore what doesn't affect you, especially when you use retarded childish tactics to make your opinion vocal.
I think the biggest issue people see here is that people try to push the idea that because Android gives us choice, it must instantly be better. Where is the logic in that? I have the CHOICE to say **** the law and start shooting people at random, rather than stick with the law that says doing so is not allowed. Exaggerated? Yes. Retains the point? Very much so; Apple's strategy is not to be the mind-controlling Orwellian bull**** that most Android fanboys seem to think it is, they simply try to eliminate the need for choice by making all the elements of the phone and its OS as perfect, functional, and good looking as they can.
That doesn't make them worse, that just makes them different. You don't have to agree with it, but it doesn't make for a poor product, it just makes for a product that doesn't do what you want.
Although the kid shouldn't have sold the conversion kits, that was clearly wrong, there is something else here.
If he was able to sell these kits at $300 a piece, then there was obviously some moron willing to pay that price. Simple supply and demand. They are clinically insane.
Apple is also trying to send out a message here and declare that anyone willing to sell their product illegally will be held accountable. They are just trying to protect their intellectual property. I feel a little bit of sympathy for the kid, but he will know never to do it again!
He found someone in the factory to see him the parts.. I would think the factory should be hit hard for this, which I assume they will be..
I am just curious at what point to they become Apple's property. If apple pre-paid for all the parts than sure it s theirs..If they pay after the parts are made and delivered, than did the kid sell Apple's stuff or just copyright infringement because of the logo?
cjd2404 said:
He found someone in the factory to see him the parts.. I would think the factory should be hit hard for this, which I assume they will be..
I am just curious at what point to they become Apple's property. If apple pre-paid for all the parts than sure it s theirs..If they pay after the parts are made and delivered, than did the kid sell Apple's stuff or just copyright infringement because of the logo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the moment the contract was made from Apple to Foxconn, it was Apples product.
I saw this in another forum and thought I would also share it here in the Sensation Forum.
Well I'm not a Apple or MS fan, but Apple is throwing all it's punches towards Android it seems. Just shows how much of a impact Android has had on them and will have in the future.
Anyway read this article about the ITC and HTC violating Apples Patents. I hope HTC comes back a wipes the **** out of Apple in the end.
http://allthingsd.com/20110715/itc-rules-htc-violated-two-apple-patents/?refcat=news
And here http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/
Apple is just full of crap.
This will blow over, it wont have a huge impact, they wont be able to sue much for damages even if HTC did loose. Android is open source, they will either find a loop hole or just work around it for future releases. No worries here.
That's crap.. The patents are 15 years old. Looks like Android is starting to be a threat to them.
Sent via HTC Sensation
They are very paranoid of all the Android success...hope HTC wins the appeal!
Google need to take action to protect its eco system.
Send from: gplus.to/everyday
I like to see Apple suing more OEMs so they will gang up on Apple and sue back togather in revenge, and if at the end of the day HTC loses and got banned from selling Android devices in the US market, American consumers will probably be stuck with smuggled products.
Patent enforcement is a big and lucrative business. All the major players have a portfolio of patents they use defensively to protect themselves from being sued. This quote sums up HTC's particular position:
HTC is considered the most vulnerable legally of the Android partners because it lacks a robust portfolio of patents that act as a potential shield. Earlier this month, HTC purchased S3 Graphics, largely because of a collection of patents that the ITC administrative law judge recently determined were used illegally by Apple.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/
dhumil said:
That's crap.. The patents are 15 years old. Looks like Android is starting to be a threat to them.
Sent via HTC Sensation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're that old??
Hmm.....IIRC,international patents last 17 years.
Two years of appeals....
I suspect that in the end,Apple will get theirs.
The sad part is that I don't dislike Apple,they just don't impress me.
It was only judge who ruled in Apple's favor. It's still going to be reviewed by the whole panel of judges. This isn't even close to a "victory" for Apple. Yet.
BarryH_GEG said:
Patent enforcement is a big and lucrative business. All the major players have a portfolio of patents they use defensively to protect themselves from being sued. This quote sums up HTC's particular position:
HTC is considered the most vulnerable legally of the Android partners because it lacks a robust portfolio of patents that act as a potential shield. Earlier this month, HTC purchased S3 Graphics, largely because of a collection of patents that the ITC administrative law judge recently determined were used illegally by Apple.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20079905-94/itc-says-htc-violating-two-of-apples-patents/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link, I added it to the first post as well. It looks like HTC might be buying the patents as defense.
Like others said it is a long way from over.
everyday48 said:
Google need to take action to protect its eco system.
Send from: gplus.to/everyday
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really sucks they lost out on the Nortel patents. It would have helped a lot. But honestly, this patent trolling has to stop. It's getting ridiculous now.
The only reason why android is getting all these random lawsuits is because its a threat.. Apple never cared before Google bought android. YES android existed before the G1 from Google, Google bought android out and took it to new levels, which we all thank lol.. The big players do this all the time, Apple Vs Microsoft, Apple Vs. Samsung, Apple Vs. Android... Well microsoft owns part of Apple's stocks, and vise-versa, its a way to move money around without being blunt obvious..
aNYthing24 said:
this patent trolling has to stop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Even if HTC loses, it won't really change anything except their profit margin. They'll end up paying Apple something per handset for use of their intellectual property but won't have to redesign the handsets. But now that they own patents that Apple's theoretically infringing on the whole thing could be a draw anyway.
Apple has resorted to patent trolling hopefully...the appeals court will overturn the ruling
Bloody Apple...why don`t they just create great products instead of suing competitors. Stupid American thinking - if you can`t beat your competitor, sue him.
But no to worry - Google reported that every day there are 550 000 Android devices activated.
I cannot believe that Apple is actually trying to claim that they invented SCROLLING and TOUCH SCREENS. And all this as they're blatantly copying Android's notifications for iOS 5. I hope Google sues the living **** out of them.
This company is the very definition of scum.
I don't like Apple at all
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
When your own pool of innovation has run dry, sue the other guy for having a bigger pool
Steve Jobs fostered this sort of thinking by Apple back in the garage days, and although they have found ways over the years to manipulate their groupthink disciples and the non-techie commonman into believing that they have changed, it's never really been any different. Small wonder, since Microsoft and Apple basically created each other, and forged their own business personas together... an endless game of backstabbing between two foul companies, whilst at the same time they attempt to destroy anyone else in the middle.
Companies like Microsoft and Apple make me wish that anti-trust investigations were more centered around *groups* of corporations, rather than simply individual ones. A lot more of the real dirt going on in the tech markets would maybe get scrubbed off of the floor, so to speak
Looks like Google is ready to take it to 'em. And this is correctly targeting *all* parties involved. Not just Apple. And I'm glad to see Google stand up and wallop. I hope Google balances out the situation because Google is the only real and true, "worthy" company among them all. Google stands for humanity. The others stand for profits at all costs. With Google here, the others are usable and enjoyable. Without Google here, the others are the ruination of the industry.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/03/google-slams-apple-and-microsoft-claims-hostile-organized-cam/
MartyLK said:
Google stands for humanity. The others stand for profits at all costs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh come on now, let's not get carried away. Google is a business as well. They care about making money. And they do it by collecting as much info about you as possible and then selling it to advertisers.
Now, I am against this patent BS and fully support Google in their effort to fight it. But lets not make Google into more than they are.
Praise Jesus they're getting involved!!
lol google is more powerful, and will eventually just be as evil as any of those other companies.
Google is becoming too much of a monoply. They're just very good at concealing their true intentions.
I don't like patents?
Yes, completely forget about the phrase "Don't Be Evil." True, they are not as evil as Apple, but they still have some shady stuff.
It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Google didn't come off looking too good after the whole Nortel thing by immediately going to the DOJ and blogging about how broken the patent system is(which it is). Android seems to be everyone's target these days
Ouch.
http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/03/microsoft-just-kicked-google-in-the-nuts/
canadariot2312 said:
Ouch.
http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/03/microsoft-just-kicked-google-in-the-nuts/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was just about to post the same, so Microsoft asked google if they wanted to bid with them and google said no and yet they blog that crap...
How exactly would Google bidding with MS help them? They need patents to defend themselves from MS, to establish a MAD situation. They can't do that with patents that are jointly owed by MS too.
And this all shows the BS-ness of patents. Where's the stuff about patents encouraging innovation and stuff? Nowhere. All I see is patents being bought as bargaining chips.
I mean, buying some patents and using them to sue is totally about someone copying what you invented, riiiiiiight. Because buying = inventing, sure.
I can only repeat: It's all BS.
Gusar321 said:
How exactly would Google bidding with MS help them? They need patents to defend themselves from MS, to establish a MAD situation. They can't do that with patents that are jointly owed by MS too.
And this all shows the BS-ness of patents. Where's the stuff about patents encouraging innovation and stuff? Nowhere. All I see is patents being bought as bargaining chips.
I mean, buying some patents and using them to sue is totally about someone copying what you invented, riiiiiiight. Because buying = inventing, sure.
I can only repeat: It's all BS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it works like this, you buy a patent with one of your competitors and then it can't be used against you by them.
It also saves you money as the cost is shared and there is one less bidder at the auction to ramp the price up trying to out bid you.
Sure, you then can't use it to make a deal with MS to infringe some of their patents for free, but if you don't win the bid, you can't do that anyway, and they can use it against you.
Tone_ said:
Was just about to post the same, so Microsoft asked google if they wanted to bid with them and google said no and yet they blog that crap...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all together
1
2
3
FAIL GOOGLE =)
that is all
Monopolies are never a good thing. Whenever one company becomes too powerful and controls everything that goes on in your life it becomes a little frightening.
Gusar321 said:
How exactly would Google bidding with MS help them? They need patents to defend themselves from MS, to establish a MAD situation. They can't do that with patents that are jointly owed by MS too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or they could suck up their pride, have patents along with Apple, Oracle, Microsoft, etc., have this cross-licensing patent deal and have less lawsuits. On the other hand, they can buy all the patents and use them for "defensive purposes."
I don't like the patent system either and I am pretty sure that Google won't fix it.
Booms! Plurals! Gets used to its!
xaccers said:
Well it works like this, you buy a patent with one of your competitors and then it can't be used against you by them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but there's tons of patents that aren't part of this particular portfolio. So all there would be is Google spending a lot of money while not being any safer from litigation.
canadariot2312 said:
Or they could suck up their pride
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this have to do with pride? It's all about needing to amass a large portfolio of patents just so that when you're sued (and you *will* be sued, because it has become impossible to create *anything* without infringing), you have something to defend yourself.
Gusar321 said:
Oh come on now, let's not get carried away. Google is a business as well. They care about making money. And they do it by collecting as much info about you as possible and then selling it to advertisers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
their street view cars can read e-mail too, ya know, they have wifi-detection software in the antennas of those cars.
[/tin foil hat]
every company sells info, hate to break it to ya. and the conspiracy nuts fail to reealize those antennas are there so they can detect a wifi hotspot like a coffee shop or private network, and put into the maps software.
imagine if you are a traveling buisiness man with a laptop, and don't have a wireless tether on your phone, also if you are in a dead zone (serious, all verizon customers, go to mound city, mo, just TRY to use your data there, you will be lucky if you get 1x, must have somthing to do with the bluff)
Google's biggest problem right now is Apple, especially with the recently ruling Apple got against HTC <I would post link if I could but I'm not allowed yet>. So it would have been beneficial for them to jointly own them with Microsoft, for a couple reasons. First being Apple isn't going to go after Microsoft, their patent portfolio is too big. But more importantly it gives Google more defense against Apple which is really what they need right now. I believe I read somewhere that Google only has about 1000 patents related to the wireless and I'm sure Apple has ton more.
I do agree the whole patent system is rediculous for software but unfortunately it is what it is for now.
termleech said:
Google's biggest problem right now is Apple, especially with the recently ruling Apple got against HTC <I would post link if I could but I'm not allowed yet>. So it would have been beneficial for them to jointly own them with Microsoft, for a couple reasons. First being Apple isn't going to go after Microsoft, their patent portfolio is too big. But more importantly it gives Google more defense against Apple which is really what they need right now. I believe I read somewhere that Google only has about 1000 patents related to the wireless and I'm sure Apple has ton more.
I do agree the whole patent system is rediculous for software but unfortunately it is what it is for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, technicly google got into the mobile market back in 2003 when they purchased then start-up company Android Inc.
and people forget that the iPhone wasn't the first capacitive touch screen phone
anyone remember the LG Prada? (yes it was a feature phone but the point is that it was a touch screen phone, the first of it's kind)
****, let's go EARLIER then that, the IBM Simon, wasn't really a "cell phone" maybe bag phone, but it had a resistive touch screen.
"We have a mantra: don't be evil, which is to do the best things we know how for our users, for our customers, for everyone. So I think if we were known for that, it would be a wonderful thing." - Larry Page
I totally want to have Google's babies!
When I say Google is for humanity, I'm speaking in relation to their sphere of involvement, not a "Christ" or anything weird like that. Google cares about benefiting humanity with convenience and comfort. Example: If Google knew of a perpetual free energy source, they would reveal it to the public. The others might be inclined to keep it secret from the public because of deals or influence from battery makers or oil companies. Google would laugh at an oil company who wanted them to keep free energy from the public.
If Google discovered alien life, they wouldn't be inclined to keep it from the public in order to keep church safe. They would reveal any and every information that can potentially free humanity from tyranny. NASA would oblige the government for the sake of religious lobbyists in Washington to keep it secret so humanity can remain under control of the church that much longer.
Sure, Google is a business. Google is made up of people who have the same needs everyone else does and need to make a living. That doesn't mean they have to conduct their business like the "good 'ol boys" do. If Google fails, humanity will remain in darkness that much longer until another entity comes along and rocks the system.
From the same people who pwned apple and made jailbreaking the iPhone legal, and who helped shoot down SOPA, comes:
https://defendinnovation.org/
Whether you're a consumer or programmer, sign the petition and let Washington know that innovation is being stifled by their corrupt system.
Tell your friends. Get everyone you know to sign. This needs to become mainstream if we want to make a change.
In all honesty, this will never happen. A lot of corporations make a ton of money with patents. Some companies only business is patent holding, and suing.
Those companies also do a lot of lobbying. Its all about money.
Its corrupt all around.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
War...war never changes.
vetvito said:
In all honesty, this will never happen. A lot of corporations make a ton of money with patents. Some companies only business is patent holding, and suing.
Those companies also do a lot of lobbying. Its all about money.
Its corrupt all around.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These guys have already made magic happen twice. The only reason things never change is that people are too apathetic to step up and and put the energy into it. Sign or stay out of the way =p There are tons of Apple forums that you can join if you want to be a sheep. :laugh:
^ name calling?
The patent industry is huge business. Signing a silly petition will get absolutely nothing done.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
I signed. Companies like Apple and Microsoft should not be allowed to patent ideas, but only actual code.
MissionImprobable said:
These guys have already made magic happen twice. The only reason things never change is that people are too apathetic to step up and and put the energy into it. Sign or stay out of the way =p There are tons of Apple forums that you can join if you want to be a sheep. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They've made "magic" happen because nobody was making money off of it yet (SOPA). The patent business is a WHOLE different ballgame and when companies stand to lose out on billions of dollars, you can bet your ass a silly petition is going to do absolutely nothing.
I feel like no matter how hard we try to fight things like this, things will not change...that's just my opinion though
NRGZ28 said:
They've made "magic" happen because nobody was making money off of it yet (SOPA). The patent business is a WHOLE different ballgame and when companies stand to lose out on billions of dollars, you can bet your ass a silly petition is going to do absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Skywalker134 said:
I feel like no matter how hard we try to fight things like this, things will not change...that's just my opinion though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you probably things won't change but, im my opinion, those guys are not wrong in screaming their disappointment, even with a silly petition. It is definitely better than staying silent.
A petition will definitely accomplish nothing. Corporations have the U.S. completely over a barrel these days.
If it doesn't accomplish anything, then at least people can say they tried. Just sitting back and doing nothing while using the excuse that nothing will change regardless will accomplish just that...nothing. At least people aren't willing to just take this lying down anymore and recognize the fact these companies are using the cover of a broken patent system to manipulate the legal system and monopolize the market by stifling innovation and removing competition through the threat of litigation. I vote with my wallet, but that's not enough anymore. Change will never happen, if we don't make it happen.
I signed. I hinted at David Gelernter and the Neonode N1m when I did.
I know this thread is pretty much dead now, but just to give an idea of how flawed the patent system is, head over to www.patentlyapple.com and just read some of the patents they are granted. Most recently...creating playlists. Oh, and multiple windows inside a browser a la Chrome, Opera Mobile, Dolphin etc. And editing text, such as cut and paste...cut and paste......cut and paste!!! This **** is getting out of hand. Expect more lawsuits now based on these trivial and frivolous patents.
CUT AND PASTE!!!
Sully6789 said:
I know this thread is pretty much dead now, but just to give an idea of how flawed the patent system is, head over to www.patentlyapple.com and just read some of the patents they are granted. Most recently...creating playlists. Oh, and multiple windows inside a browser a la Chrome, Opera Mobile, Dolphin etc. And editing text, such as cut and paste...cut and paste......cut and paste!!! This **** is getting out of hand. Expect more lawsuits now based on these trivial and frivolous patents.
CUT AND PASTE!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*shivers* They even patented Retina display, scroll down first page!
Now, THAT is bad.
Sully6789 said:
I know this thread is pretty much dead now, but just to give an idea of how flawed the patent system is, head over to www.patentlyapple.com and just read some of the patents they are granted. Most recently...creating playlists. Oh, and multiple windows inside a browser a la Chrome, Opera Mobile, Dolphin etc. And editing text, such as cut and paste...cut and paste......cut and paste!!! This **** is getting out of hand. Expect more lawsuits now based on these trivial and frivolous patents.
CUT AND PASTE!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"The system" isn't really the problem. It's the ignorance of the people in power. A judge is considered "young" if he's in his 40s, yet the chance of a 40 year old being tech savy is fiarly low. In fact it'd say that the tech savvyness of of the average person decreases damn near exponentially starting somewhere in the mid 30s. I'm thinking that the people in charge of approving these patents just don't know wtf is going on, and are just nodding their heads because they're being inundated with jargon they don't understand, so instead of say no they just shrug their shoulders and let it pass. Also I'm not sure about this next point, but I wonder how ridged the approval process is. If there were a proverbial devil's advocate that companies had to spar with to prove the worthiness, uniqueness and precedence of these patents then it would be more difficult to get approved as well.
An example is something like this.
I'll just give the punchline away now and assume everyone reading this is reasonably intelligent and say that this is a site about water because that's what Dihydrogen Monoxide really is. The trick is, obviously, that the word "water" is never said. The information on the page is presented in such a way that it makes DMHO seem dangerous and something that should be banned or regulated better when in reality it's just water.
I'm convinced that this is what these companies are doing with patents. It's the intellectual version of the Trojan Horse.
Hotobu said:
"The system" isn't really the problem. It's the ignorance of the people in power. A judge is considered "young" if he's in his 40s, yet the chance of a 40 year old being tech savy is fiarly low. In fact it'd say that the tech savvyness of of the average person decreases damn near exponentially starting somewhere in the mid 30s. I'm thinking that the people in charge of approving these patents just don't know wtf is going on, and are just nodding their heads because they're being inundated with jargon they don't understand, so instead of say no they just shrug their shoulders and let it pass. Also I'm not sure about this next point, but I wonder how ridged the approval process is. If there were a proverbial devil's advocate that companies had to spar with to prove the worthiness, uniqueness and precedence of these patents then it would be more difficult to get approved as well.
An example is something like this.
I'll just give the punchline away now and assume everyone reading this is reasonably intelligent and say that this is a site about water because that's what Dihydrogen Monoxide really is. The trick is, obviously, that the word "water" is never said. The information on the page is presented in such a way that it makes DMHO seem dangerous and something that should be banned or regulated better when in reality it's just water.
I'm convinced that this is what these companies are doing with patents. It's the intellectual version of the Trojan Horse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post, really.
But, "In fact it'd say that the tech savvyness of of the average person decreases damn near exponentially starting somewhere in the mid 30s." is highly questionable (or just makes no sense). So, senior programmers, experienced engineers, labs leaders and even the majority of the scientists are suffering an exponentially fast decrease of their tech savvyness? I believe those guys are making the most of the innovation instead...
And, if you will argue those guys cannot be considered "average persons" then even a judge can't be. So, in my opinion, the system is just wrong and IT IS the problem.
xdaid said:
Good post, really.
But, "In fact it'd say that the tech savvyness of of the average person decreases damn near exponentially starting somewhere in the mid 30s." is highly questionable (or just makes no sense). So, senior programmers, experienced engineers, labs leaders and even the majority of the scientists are suffering an exponentially fast decrease of their tech savvyness? I believe those guys are making the most of the innovation instead...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, Both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are 50+ years old.
And don't forget to support the Judges that actually care and study their cases. Like Richard Posner,
xdaid said:
I agree with you probably things won't change but, im my opinion, those guys are not wrong in screaming their disappointment, even with a silly petition. It is definitely better than staying silent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
signed.
OptimusLove said:
Agreed, Both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are 50+ years old.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um, Steve Jobs died last year.
http://allthingsd.com/20120731/sams...undercut-apples-design-claims/#slideshow-1-12
Given that Apple are arguing Samsung copied their iphone design, surely the fact that the judge refused to allow these iphone like designs (but that predate the iphone) as evidence is a sign of bias?
By not allowing the evidence to prove they were independently arriving at a similar design to Apple, Judge Koh has made Samsungs defence completely pointless because they now can't prove their point, yet conversely Apple are allowed to say that the same phone designs copy the iphone - even though they predate it, because the jury can never see the evidence to the contrary.
Surely this is a case of a judge sabotaging a case on purpose?
Dave
A US judge favouring a US company over a foreign one at the expense of justice?
Shirley no such thing could happen.... Oh wait
My hatred for Apple is so great that I shall post here as well. Yes, it seems that there is clear bias here, actually what may even constitute misconduct, though it would be almost impossible to prove.
Apple is a US company in name only: All the employment is in China, and all the money is in offshore banks out of the IRS's reach. They don't really benefit people in the US so there is no point in favoring them.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
MissionImprobable said:
My hatred for Apple is so great that I shall post here as well. Yes, it seems that there is clear bias here, actually what may even constitute misconduct, though it would be almost impossible to prove.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, if the point of the trial is to show samsung didn't copy apple, and the evidence that proves it is excluded by the judge, that makes the case pretty unwinnable for samsung.
Not sure what Koh used as an excuse but even I'm wondering if she is biased now and I've been trying to keep an open mind about her rulings.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
DomingoZuniga said:
Apple is a US company in name only: All the employment is in China, and all the money is in offshore banks out of the IRS's reach. They don't really benefit people in the US so there is no point in favoring them.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they bring the us economy, which is trillions of dollars in debt, a lot of much needed money so it makes sense they may have a vested interest in helping that revenue continue.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Deleted
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
Deleted
MissionImprobable said:
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 What he said!
I think the Judge's decision on this created a valid reason for an appeal.
Apple is just trying to get rid of competition legally because they realize they can't beat them in the actual phone wars. To me every lawsuit shows how much they are scrambling to try and stay in the running. Which is more pathetic every time and I will never buy one for the pure fact of these childish and desperate actions.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't take this the wrong way but what have the sony designs to do with this? I was specifically referring to the 2006 Samsung designs that are shown in the linked to article and not apples sony ones.
I can see your point regarding apples sony designs but we are on about pre iphone designs from samsung.
As you say samsung has burden of proof so by not allowing them to show that they had an iphone like design a year before the iphone was made public Judge Koh is dismissing their best evidence unfairly.
Please remember that this is not about the sony designs you seem to think it is but actual samsung designs. I think you assumed it was about sony ones which suggests you didn't read any of the article.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, I use a Mac, an iPad and an android phone. And yes, Im pretty annoyed by these lawsuits as well;
alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apart from the fact you didn't pay much attention at what we're talking about in this thread, i can't find many of these "APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA"-like comments here around.
OptimusLove said:
Agreed, I use a Mac, an iPad and an android phone. And yes, Im pretty annoyed by these lawsuits as well;
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right, pretty annoying. The "patent war" is actually apple which is attacking each other.
So, which is the way to stop this "war"?
1) apple stops with ridiculous lawsuits
or
2) everyone accepts apple's conditions and then no more android, no more smartphones (at least until someone comes up with a triangular device), no more tablets (btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002). As a result we'll have a total monopoly... great!
xdaid said:
Apart from the fact you didn't pay much attention at what we're talking about in this thread, i can't find many of these "APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA"-like comments here around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So in all the time you've been here on XDA: you never saw any thread that mentions Apple degrade into a pissing match. Consider yourself lucky then.
That's right, pretty annoying. But the "patent war" is actually apple which is attacking each other.
So, which is the way to stop this "war"?
1) apple stops with ridicolous lawsuits
or
2) everyone accepts apple's conditions and then no more android, no more smartphones (at least until someone comes up with a triangular device), no more tablets (btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002). As a result we'll have a total monopoly... great!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we both know the answer to this already. Total reform of the patent system. Don't hate the player, hate the game and Apple's playing the game brilliantly. I've been saying this since 2002. Maybe with on-going revolutionaries in social-networking as well as continued popularization of media access through mobile devices will people finally get off their nut and make our government do something. Maybe enough of us will get together to start our own Pirate Party.
---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 AM ----------
MissionImprobable said:
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm thankful for the information. I'll take this over the usual "I hate Apple" posts. Since you seem sure of yourself, how can invalidating Apple's patents help Samsung? Does a judge really have the authority to invalidate a company's existing patent portfolio?
xdaid said:
btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite, first tablet pc concept was described in sixties and called the dynabook but not made, just described in detail even referring to use of a stylus and multitouch.
Apples newton tablet came out almost ten years before microsofts so ms were not first, although microsofts was the first tablet as we know them today.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alpha-niner64 said:
I'm thankful for the information. I'll take this over the usual "I hate Apple" posts. Since you seem sure of yourself, how can invalidating Apple's patents help Samsung? Does a judge really have the authority to invalidate a company's existing patent portfolio?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It helps Samsung and every other manufacturer because it will show that the U.S. courts have sense when dealing with what is and isn't a valid, patentable idea. These patents are the means by which Apple has gotten each and every one of its injunctions and it will certainly seek more injunctions with its new patents.
Yes, it is judges and only judges who decide the validity or lack there of when it comes to patents. The patent office passes almost anything that comes across its purview. It is then up to companies to raise the issue when they believe their patent has been violated and up to the courts to decide which side has the right of things in the situation.
Apple have asked the judge to automatically rule in its favour based on what it says is misconduct on Samsungs part by their leaking excluded evidence.
Call me skeptical but would it surprise anyone if the judge agrees?
Could give a valid excuse to the judge to make a favourable decision.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
I would be surprised. There's far too much precedence being set here that allowing the judge to supersede the jury would be....weird. I wouldn't be too worried about an automatic ruling because John Quinn is on the case. I would think it'd be in Apple's favor to draw out this case and let all the evidence and trump cards come out, so that if the ruling is made in their favor: Samsung would have a difficult time appealing the decision. Unless of course: Apple isn't as confident as it seems.