From the same people who pwned apple and made jailbreaking the iPhone legal, and who helped shoot down SOPA, comes:
https://defendinnovation.org/
Whether you're a consumer or programmer, sign the petition and let Washington know that innovation is being stifled by their corrupt system.
Tell your friends. Get everyone you know to sign. This needs to become mainstream if we want to make a change.
In all honesty, this will never happen. A lot of corporations make a ton of money with patents. Some companies only business is patent holding, and suing.
Those companies also do a lot of lobbying. Its all about money.
Its corrupt all around.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
War...war never changes.
vetvito said:
In all honesty, this will never happen. A lot of corporations make a ton of money with patents. Some companies only business is patent holding, and suing.
Those companies also do a lot of lobbying. Its all about money.
Its corrupt all around.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
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These guys have already made magic happen twice. The only reason things never change is that people are too apathetic to step up and and put the energy into it. Sign or stay out of the way =p There are tons of Apple forums that you can join if you want to be a sheep. :laugh:
^ name calling?
The patent industry is huge business. Signing a silly petition will get absolutely nothing done.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
I signed. Companies like Apple and Microsoft should not be allowed to patent ideas, but only actual code.
MissionImprobable said:
These guys have already made magic happen twice. The only reason things never change is that people are too apathetic to step up and and put the energy into it. Sign or stay out of the way =p There are tons of Apple forums that you can join if you want to be a sheep. :laugh:
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They've made "magic" happen because nobody was making money off of it yet (SOPA). The patent business is a WHOLE different ballgame and when companies stand to lose out on billions of dollars, you can bet your ass a silly petition is going to do absolutely nothing.
I feel like no matter how hard we try to fight things like this, things will not change...that's just my opinion though
NRGZ28 said:
They've made "magic" happen because nobody was making money off of it yet (SOPA). The patent business is a WHOLE different ballgame and when companies stand to lose out on billions of dollars, you can bet your ass a silly petition is going to do absolutely nothing.
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Skywalker134 said:
I feel like no matter how hard we try to fight things like this, things will not change...that's just my opinion though
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I agree with you probably things won't change but, im my opinion, those guys are not wrong in screaming their disappointment, even with a silly petition. It is definitely better than staying silent.
A petition will definitely accomplish nothing. Corporations have the U.S. completely over a barrel these days.
If it doesn't accomplish anything, then at least people can say they tried. Just sitting back and doing nothing while using the excuse that nothing will change regardless will accomplish just that...nothing. At least people aren't willing to just take this lying down anymore and recognize the fact these companies are using the cover of a broken patent system to manipulate the legal system and monopolize the market by stifling innovation and removing competition through the threat of litigation. I vote with my wallet, but that's not enough anymore. Change will never happen, if we don't make it happen.
I signed. I hinted at David Gelernter and the Neonode N1m when I did.
I know this thread is pretty much dead now, but just to give an idea of how flawed the patent system is, head over to www.patentlyapple.com and just read some of the patents they are granted. Most recently...creating playlists. Oh, and multiple windows inside a browser a la Chrome, Opera Mobile, Dolphin etc. And editing text, such as cut and paste...cut and paste......cut and paste!!! This **** is getting out of hand. Expect more lawsuits now based on these trivial and frivolous patents.
CUT AND PASTE!!!
Sully6789 said:
I know this thread is pretty much dead now, but just to give an idea of how flawed the patent system is, head over to www.patentlyapple.com and just read some of the patents they are granted. Most recently...creating playlists. Oh, and multiple windows inside a browser a la Chrome, Opera Mobile, Dolphin etc. And editing text, such as cut and paste...cut and paste......cut and paste!!! This **** is getting out of hand. Expect more lawsuits now based on these trivial and frivolous patents.
CUT AND PASTE!!!
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*shivers* They even patented Retina display, scroll down first page!
Now, THAT is bad.
Sully6789 said:
I know this thread is pretty much dead now, but just to give an idea of how flawed the patent system is, head over to www.patentlyapple.com and just read some of the patents they are granted. Most recently...creating playlists. Oh, and multiple windows inside a browser a la Chrome, Opera Mobile, Dolphin etc. And editing text, such as cut and paste...cut and paste......cut and paste!!! This **** is getting out of hand. Expect more lawsuits now based on these trivial and frivolous patents.
CUT AND PASTE!!!
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"The system" isn't really the problem. It's the ignorance of the people in power. A judge is considered "young" if he's in his 40s, yet the chance of a 40 year old being tech savy is fiarly low. In fact it'd say that the tech savvyness of of the average person decreases damn near exponentially starting somewhere in the mid 30s. I'm thinking that the people in charge of approving these patents just don't know wtf is going on, and are just nodding their heads because they're being inundated with jargon they don't understand, so instead of say no they just shrug their shoulders and let it pass. Also I'm not sure about this next point, but I wonder how ridged the approval process is. If there were a proverbial devil's advocate that companies had to spar with to prove the worthiness, uniqueness and precedence of these patents then it would be more difficult to get approved as well.
An example is something like this.
I'll just give the punchline away now and assume everyone reading this is reasonably intelligent and say that this is a site about water because that's what Dihydrogen Monoxide really is. The trick is, obviously, that the word "water" is never said. The information on the page is presented in such a way that it makes DMHO seem dangerous and something that should be banned or regulated better when in reality it's just water.
I'm convinced that this is what these companies are doing with patents. It's the intellectual version of the Trojan Horse.
Hotobu said:
"The system" isn't really the problem. It's the ignorance of the people in power. A judge is considered "young" if he's in his 40s, yet the chance of a 40 year old being tech savy is fiarly low. In fact it'd say that the tech savvyness of of the average person decreases damn near exponentially starting somewhere in the mid 30s. I'm thinking that the people in charge of approving these patents just don't know wtf is going on, and are just nodding their heads because they're being inundated with jargon they don't understand, so instead of say no they just shrug their shoulders and let it pass. Also I'm not sure about this next point, but I wonder how ridged the approval process is. If there were a proverbial devil's advocate that companies had to spar with to prove the worthiness, uniqueness and precedence of these patents then it would be more difficult to get approved as well.
An example is something like this.
I'll just give the punchline away now and assume everyone reading this is reasonably intelligent and say that this is a site about water because that's what Dihydrogen Monoxide really is. The trick is, obviously, that the word "water" is never said. The information on the page is presented in such a way that it makes DMHO seem dangerous and something that should be banned or regulated better when in reality it's just water.
I'm convinced that this is what these companies are doing with patents. It's the intellectual version of the Trojan Horse.
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Good post, really.
But, "In fact it'd say that the tech savvyness of of the average person decreases damn near exponentially starting somewhere in the mid 30s." is highly questionable (or just makes no sense). So, senior programmers, experienced engineers, labs leaders and even the majority of the scientists are suffering an exponentially fast decrease of their tech savvyness? I believe those guys are making the most of the innovation instead...
And, if you will argue those guys cannot be considered "average persons" then even a judge can't be. So, in my opinion, the system is just wrong and IT IS the problem.
xdaid said:
Good post, really.
But, "In fact it'd say that the tech savvyness of of the average person decreases damn near exponentially starting somewhere in the mid 30s." is highly questionable (or just makes no sense). So, senior programmers, experienced engineers, labs leaders and even the majority of the scientists are suffering an exponentially fast decrease of their tech savvyness? I believe those guys are making the most of the innovation instead...
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Agreed, Both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are 50+ years old.
And don't forget to support the Judges that actually care and study their cases. Like Richard Posner,
xdaid said:
I agree with you probably things won't change but, im my opinion, those guys are not wrong in screaming their disappointment, even with a silly petition. It is definitely better than staying silent.
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+1
signed.
OptimusLove said:
Agreed, Both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are 50+ years old.
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Um, Steve Jobs died last year.
Related
http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-sues-teen-who-sold-steve-wozniak-his-white-iphone-4/97249
Theres the link basically summarizing that apple decides to sue a teenager who sold white iphone 4 conversion kits he ordered from china early, and apple decides to sue his family for over 100k, im not gunna lie apple is starting to piss me of with there suing of samsung "copying" the iPhone and copying android with iOS 5, not to mention they called us copycats with our tablets that are VERY different from theres..
It's apple's time of the month.
+1 to that!!
While I don't agree with Apple suing the Teenager and targeting him first, the parts were also obtained illegally, and he had no permission to sell apples products. His parents also were in on it too, so it was more a family matter than just him. What they're suing him for is basically what he made, that seems pretty fair to me.
Also haters gonna hate. If Apple didn't bring out the ipad, the tablet market would still be tiny and almost non-existent. Same with the smart phone market, and same with the mp3 market. They don't create the markets, but they easily have a hand in shaping them to something bigger.
Read other articles too that explain the situation more.
http://www.cultofmac.com/teen-who-s...d-a-laywer-to-defend-himself-from-apple/97469
It’s a bit hard to parse what to think of all this. On one hand, it seems pretty bogus for Apple to be sending a team of lawyers into a meeting with a teenage kid who can’t afford representation, but on the other hand, it looks like Apple’s not really interested in taking this very far. After all, they’ve already filed motion to dismiss. My guess is they are just trying to make a public wrist-slap of the whole thing, and otherwise, let Fei get on with his life. But should proceedings really have even gotten this far to begin with?
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Like I said, I don't agree with Apple targeting him like that, but the kits weren't his to sell.
vbetts said:
While I don't agree with Apple suing the Teenager and targeting him first, the parts were also obtained illegally, and he had no permission to sell apples products. His parents also were in on it too, so it was more a family matter than just him. What they're suing him for is basically what he made, that seems pretty fair to me.
Also haters gonna hate. If Apple didn't bring out the ipad, the tablet market would still be tiny and almost non-existent. Same with the smart phone market, and same with the mp3 market. They don't create the markets, but they easily have a hand in shaping them to something bigger.
Read other articles too that explain the situation more.
http://www.cultofmac.com/teen-who-s...d-a-laywer-to-defend-himself-from-apple/97469
Like I said, I don't agree with Apple targeting him like that, but the kits weren't his to sell.
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It's extremely refreshing to see someone who isn't completely stupidly blinded by Android fanboyism; someone who realizes that Android wouldn't be where it is now if Apple hadn't started this all.
Not mocking you, I'm serious. I've seen your posts and you seem to be among the few mature people on this forum.
LiquidSolstice said:
It's extremely refreshing to see someone who isn't completely stupidly blinded by Android fanboyism; someone who realizes that Android wouldn't be where it is now if Apple hadn't started this all.
Not mocking you, I'm serious. I've seen your posts and you seem to be among the few mature people on this forum.
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i feel a simple cease and desist letter would have been good enough. i dont consider myself as a fanboy but this. i dont think the need to sue him:
1. he was just trying to pay for school
2. all the clients that bought the kits had to take apart there phones thus voiding there warranty. so if they broke it then apple will charge full price to anyone who needed to get a replacement. more money for Steve.
they are makings him give all his money he made back to apple and shut down the site. if i were apple i would congratulate him and maybe make him a distributor.
Just return the damn parts.
100k for some kid and his family? Ridiculous.
The Tech Game said:
im not gunna lie apple is starting to piss me of
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Starting? Apple has never changed.
synisterwolf said:
i feel a simple cease and desist letter would have been good enough. i dont consider myself as a fanboy but this. i dont think the need to sue him:
1. he was just trying to pay for school
2. all the clients that bought the kits had to take apart there phones thus voiding there warranty. so if they broke it then apple will charge full price to anyone who needed to get a replacement. more money for Steve.
they are makings him give all his money he made back to apple and shut down the site. if i were apple i would congratulate him and maybe make him a distributor.
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1. Doesn't matter, he is still selling an illegal product. That being okay, then it must be okay for me to sell a product that's also illegal to put myself through school! Thinking heroine might fetch me a good amount.
2. That's on the client then, since they decided to buy the kit.
I don't think some of you realize that what he did was illegal. I will say it again, even though I've said it a couple of times. The way Apple went after this kid I'm against, but the kid should not be protected or above the law and should have known what he was getting himself into. Intel does the same thing when people leak pre production cpus. It's one thing if it's just the kid, but it's his kid and his parents and his parents are responsible for him. Even if they weren't in on it, they could have easily just have said no to this but didn't.
vbetts said:
1. Doesn't matter, he is still selling an illegal product. That being okay, then it must be okay for me to sell a product that's also illegal to put myself through school! Thinking heroine might fetch me a good amount.
2. That's on the client then, since they decided to buy the kit.
I don't think some of you realize that what he did was illegal. I will say it again, even though I've said it a couple of times. The way Apple went after this kid I'm against, but the kid should not be protected or above the law and should have known what he was getting himself into. Intel does the same thing when people leak pre production cpus. It's one thing if it's just the kid, but it's his kid and his parents and his parents are responsible for him. Even if they weren't in on it, they could have easily just have said no to this but didn't.
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Hello.
Lam is claimed to have diluted and infringed Apple’s trademark – compromising its relationship with customers by causing confusion over whether there was an official release of the white iPhone 4.
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Wow. See - U.S. "intellectual property" law has become a burden impossible to bear, which is being exported worldwide - like the ACTA crap. Retarded patents being granted by USPTO without any prior review, RIAA, MPAA etc. lobbying their laws thru to force virtually unlimited copyright duration, strip all fair use right from people etc.
This idiocy is harming progress. Who profits? Lawyers? Sure. Jobbers? Definitely. Lawmakers that take money from these lobbyists? You bet. Consumers? Hell no way.
He sold on as conversion kits at up to $295 a piece to those who couldn’t wait any longer for the device
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Wow. White iPhone 4, wheeeeeeeee. I must have it NOW, 111!!!!!!111!!
Let us shot the minor dead since our brainwashed iPhone fans are "confused". Go sue those who buy some Chinese piece of plastic skin worth of $0.50 for $295 and declare them mentally incompetent, first of all taking their voting right away from them.
I like how everyone is just preying on the obvious sensationalist nature of the article.
What he did was wrong, it doesn't matter if he was a minor, a girl, a monkey or Bob Saget, it's still wrong. Get it into your heads, and move the **** on.
LiquidSolstice said:
What he did was wrong, it doesn't matter if he was a minor, a girl, a monkey or Bob Saget, it's still wrong. Get it into your heads, and move the **** on.
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The only thing being wrong here is Apple not realizing they have succeeded in brainwashing people so incredibly that they are willing to fork out $300 for a piece of useless plastic (the "conversion" kit.) - what a missed business opportunity. They could have spared loads of cash selling just the useless plastic instead of the whole phone. Buy a black iPhone and get a white skin for only $300 - wow, what a bargain. I can imagine millions of teenagers convincing their parents that this is definitely a musthave.
LiquidSolstice said:
It's extremely refreshing to see someone who isn't completely stupidly blinded by Android fanboyism; someone who realizes that Android wouldn't be where it is now if Apple hadn't started this all.
Not mocking you, I'm serious. I've seen your posts and you seem to be among the few mature people on this forum.
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Disliking one brand does not automatically make you a fanboy of another rival brand. Your generalisation fails.
Like Kayne West, like what they make, hate what they do.
hungry81 said:
Disliking one brand does not automatically make you a fanboy of another rival brand. Your generalisation fails.
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Obviously you don't know the difference between "disliking" a brand and having irrational hate for it. The majority of people posting in here have no real rational reason for their Apple hate, it's just all about how Android owners are "required by unwritten code of law" to hate all things Apple.
Apple's not perfect, but much of the reasoning I keep seeing for hating them is downright immature and retarded.
LiquidSolstice said:
Obviously you don't know the difference between "disliking" a brand and having irrational hate for it.
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Even irrational hatered of something does not automatically equal fanboisim for a rival brand, although it is equally as pointless as irrational devotion.
I can like several products and dislike others for many reasons without being a fanboy for any one of them.
Irrational devotion and defensiveness for a brand is a sign of fanboisim. Not bothering to research and just purchasing on company marketing or brand loyalty can be a result fanboisim.
LiquidSolstice said:
The majority of people posting in here have no real rational reason for their Apple hate, it's just all about how Android owners are "required by unwritten code of law" to hate all things Apple.
Apple's not perfect, but much of the reasoning I keep seeing for hating them is downright immature and retarded.
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I am glad you can tell people what they think and why they think it. People like and dislike apple for a number of reasons. Conversely many of the reasons I see people telling me I should like apple I consider immature and retarded, and until I see features that appeal to me I shall not consider buying apple products.
hungry81 said:
Even irrational hatered of something does not automatically equal fanboisim for a rival brand, although it is equally as pointless as irrational devotion.
I can like several products and dislike others for many reasons without being a fanboy for any one of them.
Irrational devotion and defensiveness for a brand is a sign of fanboisim. Not bothering to research and just purchasing on company marketing or brand loyalty can be a result fanboisim.
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It does when you supplement said irrational hate with further irrational/generalized/generic points about your preferred brand.
I am glad you can tell people what they think and why they think it. People like and dislike apple for a number of reasons. Conversely many of the reasons I see people telling me I should like apple I consider immature and retarded, and until I see features that appeal to me I shall not consider buying apple products.
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Yes, because I've said somewhere in my post that I hate Apple or that you should like Apple. /s
Are you even reading the thread title? It's something a 10 year-old would say. If it was Google suing a minor, you can be damn sure the title would haven't been phrased the way it is. I'm not telling ANYONE what to think, I'm asking people to think about what they're saying. If you still want to **** on Apple, at least use mature reasoning, that's all I'm saying.It's like watching the console wars (360 vs PS3) and the combatants are all screaming tweens who play Modern Warfare and whose mothers just bought them their consoles
Please don't play stupid. The Android fanboyism is here, and rampant. Each line of the irrational insults and hate that iOS and Apple get on here further confirms to me that there are complete idiots who exist on this forum who don't understand what impact Apple has had on the mobile landscape.
You respect your rivals, you don't hate them. Even if you don't want to be remotely polite about them, the least you can do is ignore what doesn't affect you, especially when you use retarded childish tactics to make your opinion vocal.
I think the biggest issue people see here is that people try to push the idea that because Android gives us choice, it must instantly be better. Where is the logic in that? I have the CHOICE to say **** the law and start shooting people at random, rather than stick with the law that says doing so is not allowed. Exaggerated? Yes. Retains the point? Very much so; Apple's strategy is not to be the mind-controlling Orwellian bull**** that most Android fanboys seem to think it is, they simply try to eliminate the need for choice by making all the elements of the phone and its OS as perfect, functional, and good looking as they can.
That doesn't make them worse, that just makes them different. You don't have to agree with it, but it doesn't make for a poor product, it just makes for a product that doesn't do what you want.
Although the kid shouldn't have sold the conversion kits, that was clearly wrong, there is something else here.
If he was able to sell these kits at $300 a piece, then there was obviously some moron willing to pay that price. Simple supply and demand. They are clinically insane.
Apple is also trying to send out a message here and declare that anyone willing to sell their product illegally will be held accountable. They are just trying to protect their intellectual property. I feel a little bit of sympathy for the kid, but he will know never to do it again!
He found someone in the factory to see him the parts.. I would think the factory should be hit hard for this, which I assume they will be..
I am just curious at what point to they become Apple's property. If apple pre-paid for all the parts than sure it s theirs..If they pay after the parts are made and delivered, than did the kid sell Apple's stuff or just copyright infringement because of the logo?
cjd2404 said:
He found someone in the factory to see him the parts.. I would think the factory should be hit hard for this, which I assume they will be..
I am just curious at what point to they become Apple's property. If apple pre-paid for all the parts than sure it s theirs..If they pay after the parts are made and delivered, than did the kid sell Apple's stuff or just copyright infringement because of the logo?
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From the moment the contract was made from Apple to Foxconn, it was Apples product.
First of all, this is strictly an observation and will likely be locked and/or deleted by a mod (my money is on orb3000) but I have been a member of the XDA community since it first came to light, originally as a lurker and, after picking up my old ppc6800, a member. I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
Now, since the g1 came out (and even before that in some winmo crowds) iPhone users have been referred to as sheep. The implication is that they blindly follow Steve Jobs and instantly accept whatever he says as a law that cannot be challenged. It also implies simple-mindedness.
As of late, I have witnessed more of this behavior coming from android fans than iOS or any other OS (and before it's implied it physically pains me to say anything positive about that jumbled mess of an OS). If you look in any android related thread that exceeds three pages, namely the "google vs...." threads then you'll witness, first of all a number of unnecessary posts. A good portion of android fans come in simply to state something along the lines of "yay google" or, "android all da way." The levels of literacy, or lack thereof, paired with the simple-minded approach of their posts is pretty much the very definition of a "sheep." Second, and in my opinion even worse, are the people who enter these threads, are fully aware of what is going on, and still treat the situation as though google is in the right and they don't deserve to get sued just because everything they are as a company is stolen. The most common argument in this type of post is that the patents are bull****. They are for trivial things that we do passively. The fact of the matter though is that this was not always the case. Case in point, I just had a discussion with someone who said that the way that we update our address book is not a valid patent. Now, in modern times updating our address books on our phone or computer is something we do in passing. However at some point the ability to do so was unheard of until someone came up with it and filed a patent. Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine? The blind following is the other side of this "sheepish" behavior.
Though I'm absolutely certain it will, this was not intended to start any wars. It's more or less a cautionary measure. Don't turn into that which you so desperately hate.
Agree. My first 'smartphone' was a temporary g1 while my Nokia(can't remember the model no. but a small metal one...) was being repaired. It WAS a revelation, but behind the then current iPhone in many ways. I subsequently went for an X10, and now an Xperia Arc despite the initial poor support from SE. I still prefer the android OS for several reasons, but ultimately the iPhone is very good at what it does. There will always be a huge argument over the open/closed OS and who are the sheep, I was pretty anti-Apple years ago but in retrospect it was just pettiness.
sinkster©
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
Most of the "Android ftw" or "Android is much better" posts are from people desperately trying to reach 10 posts so they can ask some question in the devs sections which has probably been asked before.
Just look at the Steve Job's or battery related threads in OT, they're full of it.
This is an interesting topic. I believe that you will find smart people and trolls in all OS camps. My belief as to why so much Android now is its success. The larger and more prominent an OS is the more backers it will have and with this comes the fools. The sheer volume of Android posts vs windows phone posts here suggests that there are more posters and thus more trolls. That being said Android 4 lyfe.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
patents
z33dev33l said:
Should a patent be lost just because something has been popularized enough to become routine?
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Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
phones
z33dev33l said:
I have witnessed the rise and fall of many devices and owned now over 100 smartphones with many different operating systems myself. As far as brand loyalty goes, I have none. I will use whatever the best OS is for that time.
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same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
AllGamer said:
same here, i just go for whatever has the better hardware spec
the OS / software can always be changed, specially here in XDA
the well know HTC HD2 for example is one of the most fun phone ever migrate from one OS to another.... who would have though of that back then?
currently no other manufacture can hold a candle to the slew of cool devices being release by Samsung
if anybody else release a better phone, I'll be the first to jump ship and get the next best thing
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I am awaiting the Galaxy Note and Galaxy Skin (I heard of the Skin from a local newspaper)
Forever living in my Galaxy Ace using XDA App
lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment than in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
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So true, so true
z33dev33l said:
For the record I'm not trying to insult anyone. Actually I'm saying you shouldn't insult another unless you exhibit none of the characteristics in question yourself.
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Even if I don't agree with your original point entirely I really agree with this right here.
I still refer to apple users as "iSheep" sometimes.
You just have to understand that when I say that, I am not saying that A. All apple users are sheep. B. there aren't users of microsoft or google who are sheep.
All brands have blind loyalist, all systems have flaws.
The problem I have with "iSheep" is that they don't research, think or care about what else is out there. They also accept products built to be restrictive towards them.
Sure android devices do have restrictions and flaws and fixing that voids the warranty, but at least the ground up design is based on allowing the user to do what they want.
Android is just as guilty of Apple of having followers with blind loyalty, I don't deny that nor do I ever try to.
I will also say that part of my critiquing of apple comes from the fact that apple markets directly to the users ego. They sell "cool" they don't sell devices. It is marketing gold, but as a person studying software engineering.. I absolutely abhor the way they don't market devices.. They market a reason to have arrogance and superiority complexes.
I am not saying users of other products are innocent, but nothing burns me up more than to have someone start being judgmental of my purchases because they were blessed by the all knowing god Jobs in the Apple store.
Ok, time for me to rip on android users for just a second.
Guys, I love android.. Can we get past the inferiority complex now? We have a lot of great options.. I don't care how the latest i-whatever compares.
I really don't care to see the i-whatever compared to every android product out there either. Quit treating it like an on going competition.
I mean really.. if we quit comparing devices at every single turn, we will all be that much happier.
I like to keep track of what is out and what is up and new.. But, seriously.. why even talk about i-whatever at all? they release a phone once a year.. Why compare brand new phones to ones that are in the electronics world almost legacy hardware.
this post should be moved to the question and answer forum, LOLOL
i concur iSheep vs. aSheep vs. mSheep (or wSheep?)
it's true, people should just focus on the fun thing about the latest and gadget being released.
after all that's why most of us are in here.
let the companies fight each other until there's no left
but until then as consumers lets just rip the benefits, and hack the crap out of the gadgets that we like the most.
Hey everyone I'm new to the forum. I was just reading this, and found it interesting haha. So what exactly is meant by the term "sheep"?
lowandbehold said:
I think the real problem is the posts like this one that whether directly or indirectly are promoting people argue. Most of the bashing starts with unecessary comments designed to get a rise out of people...for example (taken from an actual thread in XDA)
Post- "or you could go android"
Reply- "not desperate enough to downgrade like that"
To me that was a comment that in a forum where the majority of users utilize the android OS was specifically meant to start an argument. That is exactly what starts a flaming thread. Names of the involved will not be disclosed.
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Click to collapse
It certainly was, though of the two posts I don't feel that mine was the only one with such intent.
AllGamer said:
Definitely! without a doubt
it's just as inconceivable as some one patenting breathing, but instead they register it as "inhale & exhale of air"
whom ever gets the patent first, will be able to collect on roughly 7 billion humans breathing on this planet.
yay! for vague and stupid patents.
the whole patent system world wide needs to be re-assessed, anything that has already become popularized, illogical, common sense stuff, part of our daily life, should simply be invalidated.
patents should be scientifical in nature, with prof of concept, equations, exact measurements, exact definitions, must be working, not theory, nothing vague like we have seen in all the latest battles in court.
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Click to collapse
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
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Click to collapse
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
z33dev33l said:
that comparison is non-sensical and hypothetical. Had the first non-aquatic creatures been humans and the first to crawl out of the water and begin to breathe shown everyone else how to do it then it'd be sensible that they profit off of it. However, there are many things that we use daily that are patented that we use because they were good ideas. Why should those people lose this source of income just because they did a good job?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should companies really be allowed to have vague and potentially ambiguous patents?
I would love to patent square box like objects then sue -
phone makers
tv makers
picture frame makers
every computer manufacturer
usb drive manufacterers.
Ect, ect, ect
I do wish people would quit worrying about what apple is doing..
On the other hand, to deny that Apple is a gigantic troll in a lot of ways is out right denial.
---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another issue that I have, is patents hamper innovation.
What is the point of developing something new based on existing technology, if your only going to get sued for it anyway even if you are doing it totally different?
Now days being "inspired" by someone else is grounds for a law suit..
lowandbehold said:
Ok, that may be a non-sensical comparison. But what about something as simple as a toothbrush or comb? These items were invented by someone and I can make them in my basement if I wanted to and sell them without a problem..because they are practical. At one time some of the things that phones can do nowadays were thought impossible...but with the advances in software and hardware it makes it practical. Once something becomes practical, and isn't made available by some gross reverse engineering or theft, it should be fair game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
however, if you become noticed, become the biggest toothbrush manufacturer in the world, you can bet that whoever holds the patent will be down your throat as they should be.
according to Apple... it's no longer about patents
check out the latest court case in Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/...duce-customers-court-told-20110929-1kyl5.html
Apple also raised concerns that every Galaxy Tab sold would cost it future app sales as the users would become "Android people". Apple's iTunes App Store dominance would be challenged if customers were "seduced" or "sapped away by the Galaxy Tab and its infringements".
"They'll then be Android people and the investment in the apps that they make to purchase on their Galaxy Tab will be something they can't use on an Apple product," Apple's lawyer said.
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Click to collapse
Samsung's lawyers have criticised the fact that Apple did not seek injunctions against previous Samsung products that would by their logic also infringe its patents. Apple's response to this was that, because Samsung is a significant supplier to Apple, it "engaged in negotiations in the first instance".
"We're not the first Android on the market and other people are getting in fast. It's critical that we're a first mover not dribble in behind everybody else. It's blossoming at the moment," Samsung's lawyer said.
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Click to collapse
Apple real target is not really Samsung violating their patents, it's about afraid of losing market to Android, and afraid of people choosing Android over iOS, and people spending their money in Android Market than Apps Store
When Android first started with HTC and Motorola, they were not as advanced enough as the hardware spec offered by Samsung
which easily attracted a lot of people, myself included, i purchased it for the hardware.
so, clearly Apple only wants to slow Samsung down, just so people have less choices to be switched over to Android
Apple is preventing people from Choosing what they want to use, by their logic eliminating Samsung will drastically reduce the will to choose another better device and less chance of people liking another OS
so practically the same can be applied for the good phones being released by Samsung for Windows
Steve Jobs HATED Android. Right?
In recent weeks, Larry Page has come forward claiming that Steve Jobs' personal hatred towards Android was just a show. It wasn't personal, claimed Page, but was instead meant to prove to shareholder that the two companies were serious rivals. Page claims he maintained a cordial relationship with Jobs up until his death.
However, according to Jobs biographer Walter Isaacson, the late CEO of Apple really did hate Android's guts on a deep and personal level...no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Speaking last night at the Royal Institution in the UK, Isaacson provided context for Steve Jobs's Android-rage. He said that Jobs had been upset ever since Bill Gates adopted Apple's graphical user interface for Windows, then liscencing the OS to Dell, IBM and other manufacturers. And he felt like the rise of Android was a repeat of this unfair cycle of companies copying Apple's design and passing it off as if it were their own.
Jobs thought Apple devices were "almost copied verbatim by Android," Isaacson explained to the crowd. "And then they licence it around promiscuously. And then Android starts surpassing Apple in market share, and this totally infuriated him," the author added. "It wasn't a matter of money. [Jobs] said: 'You can't pay me off, I'm here to destroy you.'"
Of course, we all know where all of this hatred ended up: endless patent litigations between Apple and various Android manufacturers. Who knows if Page truly had a "cordial" relationship with Jobs, but I'm guessing not. Jobs really believed that Android had ripped him off, and seems to have completely ignored Android OS's major differences AND the fact that Apple later copied many of Android's best features.
Apple and Google have always been rivals to each other.
I respected Jobs but he's a nut, he thinks he created everything worth while technologically speaking.
I Am Marino said:
I respected Jobs but he's a nut, he thinks he created everything worth while technologically speaking.
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Click to collapse
i never even respected him much .......... if you'd been privy to some of the internal industry scuttle butt about his manner and behaviour with employees and 3rd party partners you'd maybe feel the same way.
It was an efficient corporate manager ....... much like ebola is an efficient infection.
But mos of that efficiency was completely based on being beyond ruthless and having no regard at all for the effects his actions had on other individuals, as long as it furthered his goals.
Thats exactly why Apple gave him the boot back in the old days ..... its all documented.
Interesting little read, thank you.
I've always been intrigued about market spin on these so-called rivals, and the behind the scenes truth.
I just wonder where the anti-trust lawsuits are when Apple goes around trying to sue competitors out of existence while already having a pretty high market share in the smartphone sector.
Luckily there is an anti-trust suit going on right now about Apple fixing prices on e-books. Apparently the 50+ % markup on the iPad wasn't enough for them. I don't see how in this day and age Apple users still think Apple is morally better than Microsoft when they are really just as bad.
In technical and marketing fields, Steve was a genius.
In life, he wasn't so much lovable man.
playerpro said:
but still.. its because of Steve Jobs only i guess Android was evolved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No not even remotely ....... your buying into the commonly purported 'one man tech company' myth ....... anyone with a clue, who knows how a tech company actually works, knows that's utter garbage.
But is a very useful marketing/PR hook to hang the hat of a so called charismatic CEO on.
He was an efficient manager ....... with a good sense for grandiose phrasing.
i'd hate android too if they "steal me" a lot of sell and a lot of market where my business was the king... Believe me
rafa6571 said:
i'd hate android too if they "steal me" a lot of sell and a lot of market where my business was the king... Believe me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, grow up,
now please stop this google-apple hate-fest. What was going between Page-jobs, i think they better knew than us.
It's funny because generally Apple take something around 5 years old, redesign it, and apparently it's innovation.
/rant.
I had respect for Jobs, but I think he was sometimes a bit like a bull in a china shop about Android, especially as iOS borrows quite a few features from it.
siravarice said:
It's funny because generally Apple take something around 5 years old, redesign it, and apparently it's innovation.
/rant.
I had respect for Jobs, but I think he was sometimes a bit like a bull in a china shop about Android, especially as iOS borrows quite a few features from it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true. Its funny how apple is suing Google because they infringed on some copyrights but what about the fact that apple stole the notification pulldown. Its really kind of silly that they filed a lawsuit against Google because the froyo AOSP sliding tab lockscreen was similar to the iPhone slide to unlock lockscreen.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk
Steve Jobs is dead, his opinion is irrelevant, furthermore, who cares what he said while he was alive?
He was just an angry guy, sad but true and most guys with brilliant minds who have massive ideas usually have abnormal side effects.
I wish the Android OEMs would bunch together and put Apple in it's place.
I Am Marino said:
I wish the Android OEMs would bunch together and put Apple in it's place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they're doing the exact opposite. they're like dumb kids in the sandbox throwing pebbles at each other. ice cream sandwich would have re-defined what andoid is in peoples minds, but sony/htc/samsung/etc wouldn't allow it.
It would be amazing if Android OEMs would work together and actually improve Android greatly. Sadly, they work separately and try to be better than the other OEM. This competition is good, but I think it would be better if they just worked similarly. As for Jobbs hating Android, very much expected. Just like him and Windows ;P
rdubyah said:
Steve Jobs is dead, his opinion is irrelevant, furthermore, who cares what he said while he was alive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Judging by the gazillion cash in hand they have, I guess a lot of people did?
porkchopexpress said:
Judging by the gazillion cash in hand they have, I guess a lot of people did?
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Click to collapse
I always felt that iPhone, much like Macbooks, were a statement of fashion, rather than people buying the best suited laptop/phone for what they want to do.
I have plenty of friend who have Macbooks, and they all have windows installed so they can do a lot of things, it's quite funny.
Regarding the OEM's fighting each other, they won't ever all come together to challenge Apple, especially if they can customise android to hell and back. Personally I feel if they couldn't customise it as much, the handsets would be customised more and we would actually see better, faster handsets.
siravarice said:
I always felt that iPhone, much like Macbooks, were a statement of fashion, rather than people buying the best suited laptop/phone for what they want to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most people are pleased as punch with their iPhones it seems, so I don't know what you are trying to say. Perhaps the iPhone isn't the best suited phone for YOU, but that doesn't mean its not the best suited phone for someone else.
http://allthingsd.com/20120731/sams...undercut-apples-design-claims/#slideshow-1-12
Given that Apple are arguing Samsung copied their iphone design, surely the fact that the judge refused to allow these iphone like designs (but that predate the iphone) as evidence is a sign of bias?
By not allowing the evidence to prove they were independently arriving at a similar design to Apple, Judge Koh has made Samsungs defence completely pointless because they now can't prove their point, yet conversely Apple are allowed to say that the same phone designs copy the iphone - even though they predate it, because the jury can never see the evidence to the contrary.
Surely this is a case of a judge sabotaging a case on purpose?
Dave
A US judge favouring a US company over a foreign one at the expense of justice?
Shirley no such thing could happen.... Oh wait
My hatred for Apple is so great that I shall post here as well. Yes, it seems that there is clear bias here, actually what may even constitute misconduct, though it would be almost impossible to prove.
Apple is a US company in name only: All the employment is in China, and all the money is in offshore banks out of the IRS's reach. They don't really benefit people in the US so there is no point in favoring them.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
MissionImprobable said:
My hatred for Apple is so great that I shall post here as well. Yes, it seems that there is clear bias here, actually what may even constitute misconduct, though it would be almost impossible to prove.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, if the point of the trial is to show samsung didn't copy apple, and the evidence that proves it is excluded by the judge, that makes the case pretty unwinnable for samsung.
Not sure what Koh used as an excuse but even I'm wondering if she is biased now and I've been trying to keep an open mind about her rulings.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
DomingoZuniga said:
Apple is a US company in name only: All the employment is in China, and all the money is in offshore banks out of the IRS's reach. They don't really benefit people in the US so there is no point in favoring them.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they bring the us economy, which is trillions of dollars in debt, a lot of much needed money so it makes sense they may have a vested interest in helping that revenue continue.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Deleted
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
Deleted
MissionImprobable said:
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
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Click to collapse
+1 What he said!
I think the Judge's decision on this created a valid reason for an appeal.
Apple is just trying to get rid of competition legally because they realize they can't beat them in the actual phone wars. To me every lawsuit shows how much they are scrambling to try and stay in the running. Which is more pathetic every time and I will never buy one for the pure fact of these childish and desperate actions.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't take this the wrong way but what have the sony designs to do with this? I was specifically referring to the 2006 Samsung designs that are shown in the linked to article and not apples sony ones.
I can see your point regarding apples sony designs but we are on about pre iphone designs from samsung.
As you say samsung has burden of proof so by not allowing them to show that they had an iphone like design a year before the iphone was made public Judge Koh is dismissing their best evidence unfairly.
Please remember that this is not about the sony designs you seem to think it is but actual samsung designs. I think you assumed it was about sony ones which suggests you didn't read any of the article.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, I use a Mac, an iPad and an android phone. And yes, Im pretty annoyed by these lawsuits as well;
alpha-niner64 said:
No offense but the lot of you come off as rabid android fanboys. I was expecting a discussion about the evidence: not a circlejerk about how much you guys hate Apple and why Apple is bad for the world. Can we get back on topic please?
Now as I figure: Samsung is the one with the burden of proof, so it wouldn't make sense for Samsung to put up the Sony early designs to try and descredit Apple's position. If I was the judge: I would see that evidence as "unimportant" as to whether Samsung can be charged with copying Apple's designs (rectangle lol). It's not what you want to read, but it's a lot better than posting over and over: APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA...etc.
Ask yourselves. What is the importance of the excluded evidence to disproving Apple's claims?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apart from the fact you didn't pay much attention at what we're talking about in this thread, i can't find many of these "APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA"-like comments here around.
OptimusLove said:
Agreed, I use a Mac, an iPad and an android phone. And yes, Im pretty annoyed by these lawsuits as well;
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right, pretty annoying. The "patent war" is actually apple which is attacking each other.
So, which is the way to stop this "war"?
1) apple stops with ridiculous lawsuits
or
2) everyone accepts apple's conditions and then no more android, no more smartphones (at least until someone comes up with a triangular device), no more tablets (btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002). As a result we'll have a total monopoly... great!
xdaid said:
Apart from the fact you didn't pay much attention at what we're talking about in this thread, i can't find many of these "APPLE IS TEH EVILZ, PROFITPROFITPROFITCHINESELABORCORRUPTAMERICA"-like comments here around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So in all the time you've been here on XDA: you never saw any thread that mentions Apple degrade into a pissing match. Consider yourself lucky then.
That's right, pretty annoying. But the "patent war" is actually apple which is attacking each other.
So, which is the way to stop this "war"?
1) apple stops with ridicolous lawsuits
or
2) everyone accepts apple's conditions and then no more android, no more smartphones (at least until someone comes up with a triangular device), no more tablets (btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002). As a result we'll have a total monopoly... great!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we both know the answer to this already. Total reform of the patent system. Don't hate the player, hate the game and Apple's playing the game brilliantly. I've been saying this since 2002. Maybe with on-going revolutionaries in social-networking as well as continued popularization of media access through mobile devices will people finally get off their nut and make our government do something. Maybe enough of us will get together to start our own Pirate Party.
---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 AM ----------
MissionImprobable said:
Apple's claims are based on patents that they received, patents which Samsung is saying are invalid because they should not have been granted when there was already a chain of prior art. Not to knock you off your high horse, but you clearly don't understand what the basis of these proceedings are to begin with so why don't you start with that before you come in here tooling around?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm thankful for the information. I'll take this over the usual "I hate Apple" posts. Since you seem sure of yourself, how can invalidating Apple's patents help Samsung? Does a judge really have the authority to invalidate a company's existing patent portfolio?
xdaid said:
btw, 1st tablet was from MS in 2002
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite, first tablet pc concept was described in sixties and called the dynabook but not made, just described in detail even referring to use of a stylus and multitouch.
Apples newton tablet came out almost ten years before microsofts so ms were not first, although microsofts was the first tablet as we know them today.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
alpha-niner64 said:
I'm thankful for the information. I'll take this over the usual "I hate Apple" posts. Since you seem sure of yourself, how can invalidating Apple's patents help Samsung? Does a judge really have the authority to invalidate a company's existing patent portfolio?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It helps Samsung and every other manufacturer because it will show that the U.S. courts have sense when dealing with what is and isn't a valid, patentable idea. These patents are the means by which Apple has gotten each and every one of its injunctions and it will certainly seek more injunctions with its new patents.
Yes, it is judges and only judges who decide the validity or lack there of when it comes to patents. The patent office passes almost anything that comes across its purview. It is then up to companies to raise the issue when they believe their patent has been violated and up to the courts to decide which side has the right of things in the situation.
Apple have asked the judge to automatically rule in its favour based on what it says is misconduct on Samsungs part by their leaking excluded evidence.
Call me skeptical but would it surprise anyone if the judge agrees?
Could give a valid excuse to the judge to make a favourable decision.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
I would be surprised. There's far too much precedence being set here that allowing the judge to supersede the jury would be....weird. I wouldn't be too worried about an automatic ruling because John Quinn is on the case. I would think it'd be in Apple's favor to draw out this case and let all the evidence and trump cards come out, so that if the ruling is made in their favor: Samsung would have a difficult time appealing the decision. Unless of course: Apple isn't as confident as it seems.
First off, I searched the forums to see if anybody has really discussed what seems to be a one-sided trial and I haven't really found anything. So I ask this question because I am a little confused on the matter...
If you have been following the news lately, you would see that the samsung vs. apple case has begun. Barely two days into it samsung releases evidence of designs that predate the iphone which look kind of similar. Apparently this "key" evidence was rejected by Judge Koh on the basis that it is irrelevant. You can google search the facts about this but here is one link http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407919,00.asp
Now, I am no legal expert and just taking a quick glance and seeing the evidence and hearing that it was rejected by the judge makes no sense right now. It angered me to think that samsung wasn't given a fair chance to provide evidence that seems clearly relevant to why this whole trial is even taking place. But I figured I should withhold judgment until I learn all the facts because like I said, I am no expert on legal matters and I know there is two sides of the story.
My question is, is there a good reason as to why the judge threw evidence out like this? A lot of people are claiming the judge is being payed by apple but I'm not going to quickly jump to that conclusion. I am wondering if there are any fellow xda people out there that have some experience in law or know a lot about this case and can elaborate as to why this has happened. I want to know if it is unfair to jump to the assumption that apple is somehow pulling strings behind the scenes.
I'd prefer people with a decent amount of knowledge in this case speak up and not people who have read a few articles and think they know all about it.
If it's one thing I'm really starting to learn, it's that all these tech sites seem to have a bias towards them. I see some sites blatantly ignoring and even sometimes lying about android and it's features, usabillity, etc. So I'd rather get advice, experience, opinions from people who at least know what they're talking about.
Update Now Apple is asking for judge to punish samsung for releasing public documents to the press
http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...amsung_for_releasing_documents_in_iPhone_suit
I'm pretty sure that evidence was thrown out because it was entered too late by Samsung (there's a cut-off date after which no new evidence may be entered for consideration, since both parties must get some time to go over it and decide how to deal with it).
But yeah, unfortunately I think Samsung is gonna get screwed on this one. Apple seems pretty good at deceiving juries and judges (especially certain ones) into believing that they invented everything in existence. I just hope it doesn't end too badly for Samsung, as their phones are probably the biggest reason why Android has risen up as a viable competitor to iOS (and even raced right past it in market share). The smartphone world needs that competition. I shudder at the thought of a world where the only real choice is getting an iPhone.
RoadHazard said:
I'm pretty sure that evidence was thrown out because it was entered too late by Samsung (there's a cut-off date after which no new evidence may be entered for consideration, since both parties must get some time to go over it and decide how to deal with it).
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Ahhh, I see. Well that makes sense if it there's a deadline and they didn't make it. I will say that I find it pretty strange that they didn't make the deadline with evidence that seems to be pretty damn important.
There are time limits, thought it can still be allowed if it wasn't discovered quickly enough to be submitted. Regardless, every decision made seems to point to clear bias on the point of Koh and higher judges. I've yet to see anything fair and impartial about what's been going on with any of this from the beginning.
MissionImprobable said:
There are time limits, thought it can still be allowed if it wasn't discovered quickly enough to be submitted. Regardless, every decision made seems to point to clear bias on the point of Koh and higher judges. I've yet to see anything fair and impartial about what's been going on with any of this from the beginning.
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Worst case scenario... Apple wins. And also gets to enforce the recent touchscreen patents they were awarded. What does this mean for android? That's what I'm wondering. Although, I really hope this doesn't happen.
MissionImprobable said:
There are time limits, thought it can still be allowed if it wasn't discovered quickly enough to be submitted. Regardless, every decision made seems to point to clear bias on the point of Koh and higher judges. I've yet to see anything fair and impartial about what's been going on with any of this from the beginning.
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Yeah... Richard Posner seems to be one of the only sensible ones. Quoting The Guardian:
The Guardian said:
At one point, for example, Apple claimed that Google was infringing one of its patents on the process of unlocking a phone by swiping the screen. "Apple's argument that a tap is a zero-length swipe," said Posner, "is silly. It's like saying that a point is a zero-length line."
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Apple is being silly, and this guy seems to be the only judge who gets that.
Whatever happens, I will hate Apple more than ever. And, if I get a second choice, I will rather get a Windows Phone than an iPhone.
Sent With My Fingernails To Your Eyeballs
lucastan96 said:
Whatever happens, I will hate Apple more than ever. And, if I get a second choice, I will rather get a Windows Phone than an iPhone.
Sent With My Fingernails To Your Eyeballs
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Yeah, if they actually manage to ruin Android (I don't believe they will), I'll go for a Windows Phone a million times before I even look at an iPhone. I never used to actively dislike Apple, I just wasn't very interested in their products, but recently they've really made me think they're a ****ty anti-competitive company that doesn't deserve a cent of my money. I truly hate what they're trying to do to the smartphone market.
lucastan96 said:
Whatever happens, I will hate Apple more than ever. And, if I get a second choice, I will rather get a Windows Phone than an iPhone.
Sent With My Fingernails To Your Eyeballs
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I've kind of feel the same. I never really liked apple, although I know they make good products. After lots of research and hands on experience, I've realized iOS sucks compared to android. All it has is smoothness. Android has far more features and is simpler to use in my opinion. What apple really is good at is hype. After all these lawsuits with them suing everybody for what seems like ridiculous things, it's making me really hate the company now.
Free iPhones, iPads and Macbooks for the judges, it seems!
pk92 said:
Free iPhones, iPads and Macbooks for the judges, it seems!
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Yup...maybe they bribed the judges with free new Apple products
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
DD-Ripper said:
Yup...maybe they bribed the judges with free new Apple products
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
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I wonder why Samsung doesn't try the same thing, if I got some of those new Galaxy products for free I would want Samsung to win.
Just Another★Gamer said:
I wonder why Samsung doesn't try the same thing, if I got some of those new Galaxy products for free I would want Samsung to win.
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Because Samsung has some respect which Apple dont have. Thats why Apple is playing such cheap games on Samsung.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
I should point out, in the interests of fairness, that despite many of our suspicions regarding bribery or illicit deals there has never been the slightest evidence apple have bought legal rulings by anything other than legitimate and transparent means.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Am i the only one that thinks that the judges are acting like that because apple is considered "All american and genuine" company to them and Samsung is an invading country that want to knock off the "GREAT" american company?
From my experience there are people that are dumb enough to act like that....
Hell Guardian said:
Am i the only one that thinks that the judges are acting like that because apple is considered "All american and genuine" company to them and Samsung is an invading country that want to knock off the "GREAT" american company?
From my experience there are people that are dumb enough to act like that....
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Click to collapse
This thought has passed through my mind to be honest
However I don't think any of this is as simple as "Apple is American" or "bribery".
It's a broken patent system that Apple is using to try and prolong the inevitable - which is Android taking over the majority of the market for what could be decades. Apple is within their rights to attempt to use their patent portfolio to slow down the competition. This is not debatable. They are using legal means and the current system to attempt to enforce their dominance since they can no longer maintain it with product alone.
Although I am a Samsung fan and a huge supporter of Linux, Android, Google, etc. I cannot get past the picture of the Galaxy SII next to the iPhone. Side by side, it does look like they ripped them off. That is where I believe Samsung screwed up. It's not the functionality/UI patents that are troubling to me, it's the fact they made it look like the iPhone. It's almost undeniable. They encroached on brand recognition, to the point that you can't deny they look very similar. Too similar.
In my opinion, that will be the cause of Samsung's defeat. Everyone says "you can't patent rectangles or the color spectrum". But you can't rip off someone's design either. And they did, pretty plainly IMO. Why do you think there are no Black GSIII's? Samsung knows what they did, and they didn't want to risk it with their new flagship.
As far as software patents, Apply can kiss my ass. But they have the right for their product to look unique. No matter who designed something similar back in the day. No one sees a black, rectangular phone with a huge slab of glass and says "hey, that's that Sony phone prototype!". But any average person, even an elderly person who doesn't much follow tech, definitely recognize an iPhone. Unless of course, it's next to a black Galaxy SII.
Just my two cents.
ingenious247 said:
This thought has passed through my mind to be honest
However I don't think any of this is as simple as "Apple is American" or "bribery".
It's a broken patent system that Apple is using to try and prolong the inevitable - which is Android taking over the majority of the market for what could be decades. Apple is within their rights to attempt to use their patent portfolio to slow down the competition. This is not debatable. They are using legal means and the current system to attempt to enforce their dominance since they can no longer maintain it with product alone.
Although I am a Samsung fan and a huge supporter of Linux, Android, Google, etc. I cannot get past the picture of the Galaxy SII next to the iPhone. Side by side, it does look like they ripped them off. That is where I believe Samsung screwed up. It's not the functionality/UI patents that are troubling to me, it's the fact they made it look like the iPhone. It's almost undeniable. They encroached on brand recognition, to the point that you can't deny they look very similar. Too similar.
In my opinion, that will be the cause of Samsung's defeat. Everyone says "you can't patent rectangles or the color spectrum". But you can't rip off someone's design either. And they did, pretty plainly IMO. Why do you think there are no Black GSIII's? Samsung knows what they did, and they didn't want to risk it with their new flagship.
As far as software patents, Apply can kiss my ass. But they have the right for their product to look unique. No matter who designed something similar back in the day. No one sees a black, rectangular phone with a huge slab of glass and says "hey, that's that Sony phone prototype!". But any average person, even an elderly person who doesn't much follow tech, definitely recognize an iPhone. Unless of course, it's next to a black Galaxy SII.
Just my two cents.
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Samsung didn't copy the iphone though, they actually had iphone like designs the year before iphone was made public.
Are you saying that because apple used that design in public first, even though samsung had a very similar one earlier, that apple should be only one able to have anything similar "no matter who designed something similar back in the day"?
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
mistermentality said:
Samsung didn't copy the iphone though, they actually had iphone like designs the year before iphone was made public.
Are you saying that because apple used that design in public first, even though samsung had a very similar one earlier, that apple should be only one able to have anything similar "no matter who designed something similar back in the day"?
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
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It's the phone itself in combination with the dock, square icons, general "appearance" I'm taking about. I'm sorry but it's really not debatable. It looks like a foreign clone of an iPhone.
Sent from the current Heavy Weight champ GALAXY SIII
If worse comes to worst you know we'll just all switch to buying Chinese android devices. The Chinese system not only ignores Apple's chicanery, but has ruled in favor of several plaintiffs against Apple and allows the phones that truly are copies to be sold freely. I don't in any way foresee it coming to that but it will be a long, long time before Apple ever sees dollar one of my money and I will do whatever I can to keep an Android device in my hands.
Brought to you by the letters "M" "I" "U" "I"
ingenious247 said:
It's the phone itself in combination with the dock, square icons, general "appearance" I'm taking about. I'm sorry but it's really not debatable. It looks like a foreign clone of an iPhone.
Sent from the current Heavy Weight champ GALAXY SIII
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You're not getting this. Samsung has shown (to the best of my knowledge the evidence that was tossed by Judge Koh, was legit from Samsung), that they had prior art to this style of design, the apps, the home button, the rounded corners, well before Apple ever went public with the iPhone.