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Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this forum. I respect the true developers that push out groundbreaking work and invest their time and talents into what they do, but I have noticed something that does make me a bit disappointed.
I first started coming to XDA early last year when I got me a G1... And while I am not a big contributor, I do adore reading through the wealth of knowledge and advice here. Early on it seems the feel of the board was so much more accepting and pleasant. It was one of the Biggest reasons I stuck with my G1 and felt it would be the big thing to come.
But it seems as of recent, the tone of some areas of this forum have went sour and south. I understand things happen, such as multiple posts about questions that have been answered or goofy comments. And these things get irritating. But they happen. When did the better than you, don't question us, and without warning "snaps" start happening.
I LOVE Android, and I am Very proud to be part of the Android wave since G1, but the bigger we get the more iPhone-fanatical and holier than thou the atmosphere is seemingly becoming.
Why should we treat new comers to the system with such venom or even older members. I have seen high post count members help in some posts and call new members "idiots" or the like, in others. I see threads getting squashed before the ink has dried regarding items of interest that - while a search could be beneficial - the problem may be slightly different or something completely different, if only the ones snapping off at the "member" would read them. I see people defending certain aspects with careless abandon of rationality. Same goes for new users that have a tech problem and get angry when the first response doesn't help. When did entitlement to instant answers come into the picture?
These are not highly common issues that are here - and all forums have such irritations - but they are still here and in much higher velocity the more expanded Android becomes.
I guess with great power comes great responsibility. And when the under dog becomes the big dog, he finds it necessary to bite all the other dogs in retribution.
I don't know, it just saddens me to see such actions here, and I guess I do kinda miss being the underdog a bit and enjoying the camaraderie that came with it.
EDIT: I want to stress that my intended meaning here is not that XDA has become some completely nasty, demented, angry beast. I love this forum. I am merely comparing today to the early days and how the recent breakout of Android and the aspect of being the top dog has changed some tones slightly.
Oh yes. The rudeness over in the Vibrant section is unacceptable.
We invite you to help us by reporting bad behavior, it´s impossible for us to look all the threads in all the sections, so we count a lot with the help of all members to make this more than 3 million great forum called XDA better.
Thanks,
I in no way meant this to mean it's the fault of the Moderators of XDA. Orb is absolutely correct. We readers and commenters are the front line to help remedy this. I am simply remarking on the state and tone of the masses, as we advance from small groups with pioneer devices to the majority of the mobile smart phone community.
Android is pure, its open... as well our arms and responses should be - in a respectful manner. To all questions big, small or redundant. To all comparisons and technological oppositions.
I say that as merely a comment of how we should hold our honor under this platform and as a community. Not as a indictment in any way. This should be the basis of Android and its adopters young and old in places like XDA that are one of the faces of our brand. It's what makes us great. All accepting and all helping. Coming from the small humble steps of Google slightly more than 10 years ago, to the pillars of might which they have now become, I guess this is what I initially meant to express....The original sight and humble nature should not be lost and above all negativity should be hindered.
And as Orb stated, we the readers are the best hope to help remedy such actions, and as such, we such be steadfast in keeping the tone positive and not condemning all things seemingly redundant or in opposition to Android.
Keep up the great work XDA. There are no villains here, merely a young and VERY inspired and dedicated community with a great future. Let's make sure that when the legend is written, that it's written with the proper feelings in place.
So very sorry to jump on a soap box.. I am just very proud to be a part of this community. And my pride spurs very much from the positive nature of this forum and the Android world in general. I never want to lose that rare gem.
They need to hire more Moderators
Proud to be XDA member!
Fantastic words!
recasper said:
All accepting and all helping
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No need to be sorry, I can get your feeling and share it as well!!
Just adding: Not only Android...We have the father of all touch screen OS devices: Windows Mobile, also Windows Phone 7 and even iPhone all come together in XDA!! (and perhaps more to come in the future!)
recasper said:
So very sorry to jump on a soap box.. I am just very proud to be a part of this community. And my pride spurs very much from the positive nature of this forum and the Android world in general. I never want to lose that rare gem.
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this is a very well put together comment. It sort of makes me feel bad of the few,very few times thay I had been rude. Not intentionally but just having a bad day and escaping to the forums for relaxation and ease then being rude in some of my comments. This certainly will make me be gratuous for such a great forum and for the help that I have gotten. I will definetly think twice of all my post from here on out.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
In my rant I completely neglected to keep in mind that XDA is not only the developmental face of Android but so many others. I kind of fell into tunnel vision as I jumped upon my soap box. All other OS platforms should absolutely be acknowledged and thank you Orb for correcting me.
I guess I was focusing more on the Android section of this site due to its weight here and the fact I spend all my time in these sections. Seeing negativity in the areas where there is an assumed open and welcoming nature of Android and its community, tweaked me and inspired me to post this. After thinking about it, this is to say, my thoughts aren't 100% specifically toward the Android section and not to be dismissing the likes of Win7, WinMobile, iPhone and of course (and well stated, Orb) all others to come. I see myself as more of a member of the Android section than any other, but the general feel of my comments are to span all forum sections. Respect, thats what is important.
Thank you, caguirr4, and any following posters with such thoughts. That was my exact intention here. For us all to reanalyze our responses and comments, even when we have had a bad day or feel irritable for redundancy or what some may see as surface ignorance. And to understand that not all readers are developers or highly computer savvy. But merely wanting to get a foothold in this complex area and most are doing what they can. We should open our arms, as we do our code, and allow them safe passage. Especially without the fear of receiving a scathing reply to a post simply reaching for help or personal expression.
And above all thank you ALL for what you do in this incredibly innovative, inspiring and all around wonderful forum.
I shall now step down from this podium and stop wasting everyones time. haha
I know I've personally been rude a few times and I see your point. I was once just as lost with android as some of the new members coming here. Each thread should be treated as important and relevant and if something as simple as a search would suffice then a link to the topic with the answer could be provided and instead of "omg search n00b" a more friendly "Here is the link, please search a bit more carefully next time" could be placed. I know some would still take that as hostile even when it's not meant to be but it is less aggressive and if the person is new maybe even throw in a "and welcome to the forums". I don't really contribute that much in terms of development (I'm not sure you'd even really call my thread development or not) but I, like you, love this community and the amazing things that can be done when we join together. I know some of us just get a bit annoyed at seeing the same question a few hundred times over and there's always that one "straw that breaks the camel's back" and as we learn more ourselves some answers may seem obvious to us when they're not so obvious to others. Thank you for posting this and making us all think about not only our own posts in response to others, but what we really want this community to be and what its potential is.
Thank you OP for the feedback. We will certainly keep this in mind and try to get better.
Over the past few months we have grown enormously, we have added numerous non-hTC devices, plus we have openly started adding all android devices which come out compared to previously only Windows mobile OS devices. Which has lead to a huge influx of new members.
XDA is a convergence of numerous types of people some know it all, some are really knew, some understand english really well, and some not so well.. This is what leads to frustrations, and hence rude-ness over the forums. Eventually as people mature on XDA, they hopefully do learn the manners of posting on a board such as XDA.
And those who don't we moderators are always their to deal with them.
Thank you again for the feedback, it has been noted and we will surely try to make XDA a more welcoming and friendlier place.
Any issues/suggestions/comments feel free to contact me.
First of many topics. Two of the major developers for the #Thunderbolt have departed ways with XDA. It is a sad day to say the least, but one that has been coming. What are your thoughts? New Devs must have a point of view. What is the state of XDA? Will foul mouthed trolls keep pushing great developers out of XDA?
*edit* Mispelling, since I know people are strict on grammar
I think a lot of the problem is the combination of elitist attitudes (really funny when a lot of these people don't contribute a damn thing) and newbs that want to be spoonfed without even putting in the slightest effort.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using Tapatalk
I think we should stop having threads like these every 2 hours...
The Facebook generation at its best. I've been lurking for a year, active over a month. In that time the forums have literally degraded into anarchy. The moderators here at XDA have to accept some, if not all, of the blame. Growing pains maybe, but their actions in some cases and lack of any action whatsoever in really any of the threads speaks volumes.
courtesy of my rooted Bolt
g00s3y said:
I think we should stop having threads like these every 2 hours...
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This is the General section... Do you really have that big of a problem with people beginning their own thread to discuss a topic that interests them strictly because the conversation has already been had in a different thread..? In my opinion, you just spot-on proved what dbu said. If you honestly don't have a positive contribution to any given thread, then why even throw in your two cents? You've done nothing but spread negativity.
Anyway, I think a combination of flame wars, reoccurring problems, and flat-out disrespect has driven many of the TB's devs away. I've been active on XDA for all of a month, but the way in which older members act towards new ones really puts me off to contributing to any thread within a mile of the development section. That's not to say that every older member acts rudely towards every newer one, but that's certainly the trend I observe here, and quite frankly, putting myself in the shoes of the BAMF team or Chingy, I wouldn't want to be a contributing member of a community like this one. I'm sure it hasn't always been this way, but presently it is, and that's really a shame.
I have been a long time lurker too and i can agree. I am someone who can appreciate the hardwork of these devs but quite frankly I think some are too quickly to get there butt hurt over what some tard is saying.
Sometimes I feel like we are in a locker room and everyone's strutting around trying to proove how big there junk is.
If someone wants to depart because of rumors, he said she said, or what have ya. That's cool. Best of luck.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App
Dev's leaving because of people acting childish...please!!!
I've been on XDA long enough to know dev on dev disputes are the most childish, frequent, longest lasting and tit for tat of all the non sense that goes on in these forums. they as a whole cant even regulate the foolishness amongst themselves so they really have no room for fingerpointing.. Between this phone and my last rarely had a day or two gone by without one dev jumping into another dev's thread throwing a jab or an insult and even after it appears resolved three months later same two devs are in some thread back at it as if they are unfamiliar with the PM button.
That said guess what, it was perfectly fine by me. Not like I was paying for any of this (yes I have donated). Just dont tell me these devs are above the problem and not apart of it.
I also dont really understand why people are so pissed they have to go somewhere other than XDA to get roms like they get free mints by using XDA. I use gingeritis and I dont give a rats ass where its hosted as long as its hosted.
people take things too seriously on the "internet".
it's not new for devs to get pissed and leave xda.... im sure bamf will be back as i doubt his roms will get that much exposure on a different site. sucks as i love bamf 2.1, i didn't even know he left until this morning. the worst part about hosting on another site is troubleshooting and general questions. these sites never seem to be a hive of activity and not many answer questions there.
Bamf is leaving in protest of xda censoring someone's religious signature, not because of trolls.
Sent from my Bolt
fixxxer2008 said:
people take things too seriously on the "internet".
it's not new for devs to get pissed and leave xda.... im sure bamf will be back as i doubt his roms will get that much exposure on a different site. sucks as i love bamf 2.1, i didn't even know he left until this morning. the worst part about hosting on another site is troubleshooting and general questions. these sites never seem to be a hive of activity and not many answer questions there.
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How do you figure this, because you are that lazy to goto their webpage, they said that about energy roms for the imago and his stuff ended up being the most used, if you want the best you will search for it our even easier follow them
Sent to you via my handheld cellular communications device
I have been here for a few months.
I struggled trying to learn some stuff to contriburte to themeing and stuff. I will tell i agree with some others as to the problems:
1. Some of these dev(no names at all) likr to share info and help spread the info, while others have this holier than thou attidude. Just search, or google it is not an answer. I don;t want to be sppon feed, but if you can't answer in a good manner, then skip the message and move on. The dev's should never been calling users idiot's, stupid, or whatever name they can come up with. This site was here to share, and for them to develope thier wares.
2. Moderators play a huge role as to why this is goign downhill. I have report several items in which i think a conversation has goen to far, and not once have ever gotten a response back from a moderator. Not a will look into it, I talk to the person.. nothing.. So one gets the feelign unless your a dev, or been here a long time, you get anything from a moderator.... dang shame.
3. Why are not the moderator taken a more active role? You how many times you can go into the many, many threads and see someone name calling or even cursing? I could care less about cursing per say, but this type of envioriment has no place for it. No a single thing from moderators... nothing...
4. There have been some that put some much into this, and get cetain threads stickied.. I love those people.. But as word gets out about this site, more users will be here vs devs, and unless some control is put into place this community will continue to go downhill.
And now I return you to your nomally scheduled programming...
I agree that the mods play a huge roll in a lot of this. Many of them do no moderating at all, which is a shame. Personally I think Xda has grown to large with not enough oversight to many threads on exactly the same thing, usually on the same page. Time was a mod would step in and either merge them, or lock all but one.
And yes, at times Google it or search for it is the correct answer. How else does one learn but by research and coming to the answer. Getting handed the answer may allow someone to do something, but they have no idea why it was that way, nor in many cases how to fix something if it occurs later. By looking for the answer ave finding it, the person is generally better able to help themselves later on.
sent from my bolt
People get way too worked up over these forums. The whole idea of forums is a way to exchange ideas and opinions, it is a guarantee that people will disagree or get mad. Yes there will be trolls and flamers. If this is too traumatizing, maybe just stick to published articles. To try and pretend you understand why a dev makes a personal decision over whether he is going to be associated with this site or not is a little ridiculous. I didn't read much of Chingy's threads, but BAMF's were overwhelmingly positive.
Also, not everybody spends 24x7 reading these threads, so if someone posts a thread slightly similar to an existing one I have no problem with it. The people who cry about this over and over again are worse than any trolls IMO. No one forces you to click on the thread and read it.
despite this post....
kurttrail said:
Bamf is leaving in protest of xda censoring someone's religious signature, not because of trolls.
Sent from my Bolt
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people continue to talk about trolls, disrespect and noob questions....
I thought this thread was about BAMF?
MattBeyers said:
This is the General section... Do you really have that big of a problem with people beginning their own thread to discuss a topic that interests them strictly because the conversation has already been had in a different thread..? In my opinion, you just spot-on proved what dbu said. If you honestly don't have a positive contribution to any given thread, then why even throw in your two cents? You've done nothing but spread negativity.
Anyway, I think a combination of flame wars, reoccurring problems, and flat-out disrespect has driven many of the TB's devs away. I've been active on XDA for all of a month, but the way in which older members act towards new ones really puts me off to contributing to any thread within a mile of the development section. That's not to say that every older member acts rudely towards every newer one, but that's certainly the trend I observe here, and quite frankly, putting myself in the shoes of the BAMF team or Chingy, I wouldn't want to be a contributing member of a community like this one. I'm sure it hasn't always been this way, but presently it is, and that's really a shame.
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I agree with you. The way the members who have been on XDA over 6 months treat the newer members is ridiculous and some people never have anything positive to contribute and just browse XDA to piss on the posts and threads of others. I for one used to tell people all the time that they've posted in the wrong thread but realized that it: 1) wasn't my job to police the threads: 2) It did nothing but spread negative energy, so I learned to ignore them. Making other members feel like dopes is extremely counter productive.
Just as a side, no one knows what the future will bring and in my opinion XDA will be fine. When I had the captivate one of the favorite developers over there (DG) left for a little while and everyone thought the sky was falling, he eventually came back stronger. I'm not saying that team bamf will return, but hey, you never know.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk
And also, I saw the most disgusting post yesterday by another member in the sense 3 thread that I've ever seen on this forum, which he later tried to edit. Freedom of speech doesn't free you from wrath of public opinion nor give you the right to be an ass. People really have no idea what freedom of speech means.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk
I think the problem is a bunch of elitist nerds sitting behind a desk looking for drama. They wanted to leave these boards to promote their own board - end of story. Its really simple to just ignore trolls. They want sympathy and everyone to follow them to their website.
teambamf.net
lrs421 said:
And also, I saw the most disgusting post yesterday by another member in the sense 3 thread that I've ever seen on this forum, which he later tried to edit. Freedom of speech doesn't free you from wrath of public opinion nor give you the right to be an ass. People really have no idea what freedom of speech means.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk
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You expect people on an internet message board to use common sense, that went out the window the first day AOL 2.0 came out.
erishasnobattery said:
On this point, let me play out a little scenario for everyone. I'm 31 years old, have a foul mouth, tough skin, and don't give a crap attitude. I'm not offended by anything that is ever said on these forums, because let's be honest, internet tough guys are pretty amusing to watch.
However, I have a 14 year old stepdaughter with a MyTouch 4G. She saw Unity running on my Bolt, and really wanted the same thing on her phone. She's a smart kid, and a bit of tech nerd, so I figured I'd teach her how to root it and flash the ROM herself so she could get a little sense of accomplishment and maybe learn something in the process.
I couldn't even let her read the forums in good conscience. It's eff this and ish that all over this place. When I started on XDA, there were very few devices and the G1, Hero, Eris and Droid 1 were the big ones. It was a really close knit community with a lot of quality people helping each other out. You can still look at some of those older forums and find some great people (both users and devs).
That's not to say there aren't great people lurking around now, but unfortunately, their worthwhile comments get drowned out by the useless nonsense. It's the useless nonsense that I feel causes more problems than anything. Someone says "Hey, I'm having problem A" and within 15 minutes you have either 1) 13 replies of "+1 lol, 10Chars" or 2) 13 replies of "Why didn't you search you idiot. You're so noob".
So now, we've bumped an entire page of useless garbage. Now me personally, I won't read back more than 2 or 3 pages when I check our threads in the morning, so what happens to the legitimate question? It get's lost in the BS.
I get that XDA has grown probably far more than ever anticipated and it requires tons of moderators and maintenance, but how can KernelRapist be ok, but I can't put "I love Jesus" in my sig? Anyway, I miss the old XDA, and maybe it will be back some day, but for now, I'll lurk, but you'll see me over at the Team BAMF forums.
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I originally posted this over in the 1.8.6 Thread in response to someone's mindless banter about us leaving because our feelings were hurt or whatever.
Although I can't speak for everyone, the above is why I'm leaving. XDA has become one huge flame war and a place for "kids" to vent their rage. I use quotations, because I mean kids mentally, regardless of age. Some of the most talented and respectful people I have met on these forums are still teenagers and then on the flipside I find out some foul mouthed flamer is a 40 something with 3 kids.
Although this isn't true of every device's forums, I'm seeing it in more and more of them at time progresses. Like I said above, I'll still lurk, as will most of the team most likely. We do still have a lot of friends on other devices over here, but it's just too much nonsense to sift through to progress our development any further in this environment.
erishasnobattery said:
I originally posted this over in the 1.8.6 Thread in response to someone's mindless banter about us leaving because our feelings were hurt or whatever.
Although I can't speak for everyone, the above is why I'm leaving. XDA has become one huge flame war and a place for "kids" to vent their rage. I use quotations, because I mean kids mentally, regardless of age. Some of the most talented and respectful people I have met on these forums are still teenagers and then on the flipside I find out some foul mouthed flamer is a 40 something with 3 kids.
Although this isn't true of every device's forums, I'm seeing it in more and more of them at time progresses. Like I said above, I'll still lurk, as will most of the team most likely. We do still have a lot of friends on other devices over here, but it's just too much nonsense to sift through to progress our development any further in this environment.
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uh... so just ignore it?
Is the Samsung Infuse being replaced by the Skyrocket I think it is called? I recently got this phone and saddened that something better is out. Darn upgrades.
I think, yes!
Enviado desde mi Samsung Galaxy Note
.
Second and last warning, please post in the correct section and use same thread for all your questions
Thanks Scarface.
Orb3000...quit following me dude.
jmonroe said:
Orb3000...quit following me dude.
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Dude, he is the moderator here. You hardly have 10+ posts, but 4 threads! Opening too many threads is not appreciates cos it tends to clutter up. If you have multiple questions, list them all out in one thread.
Yes...we need to keep the clutter to a minimum....i can hardly keep up with my dev threads...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using xda premium
More like a nuisance. He jumped me when I hardly have any postings here but been a member for over a year. He could have pm'ed me first...but no, he decided to slap the ruler on my knuckles and give me an infraction.
He is lame and not very good at being a moderator. I am learning the site and very much like being here...just don't like the way he come across.
Its in the past. Thanks again dman for your work. Its great.
jmonroe said:
More like a nuisance. He jumped me when I hardly have any postings here but been a member for over a year. He could have pm'ed me first...but no, he decided to slap the ruler on my knuckles and give me an infraction.
He is lame and not very good at being a moderator. I am learning the site and very much like being here...just don't like the way he come across.
Its in the past. Thanks again dman for your work. Its great.
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Or he's been here a lot longer than you, and does his job just fine. Look at his join date and his post count and then say what you just said again. He's a mod and therefore it's his job to do what he does. And I agree with diablo as well. Eitherway, no reason for arguments on the internet.
jmonroe said:
More like a nuisance. He jumped me when I hardly have any postings here but been a member for over a year. He could have pm'ed me first...but no, he decided to slap the ruler on my knuckles and give me an infraction.
He is lame and not very good at being a moderator. I am learning the site and very much like being here...just don't like the way he come across.
Its in the past. Thanks again dman for your work. Its great.
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Should have known better then.
Lots of Infuse devs left 'cos things here got very unruly. This could be one of the reasons mods on Infuse forum are more strict that on others.
To Sqdnguns...I have been a member over a year...and had I read the rules...I would have known but I didn't...surfing for answers with issues.
I can man up and take the blame for my lack of paying attention to the rules. I meant no harm...just asking questions. Trying to gain the ability to ask tech questions too.
Regardless of how many posts or how long he has been around...that doesn't make a bean of difference to me. He could have pm'ed me like I said before and told me to chill out or something. He is still a nuisance in my book.
Now...with that said...its all irrelevant to what I am here to accomplish. I have found the answers I needed and will sit back quite again till next year.
Thanks and Merry Christmas.
Subscribed, I really want to see how this one plays out.
Ohh yea, OP, I'm guessing you will be getting that PM you were talking about.
Being ignorant to the rules of the site do not exclude you from them. If you have been lurking here for a year then you should understand that you WILL get called out for stuff... In the open and without mercy.
That all being said, I will answer your question.
Yes technically the skyrocket and the sgs2 are upgrades (even though the sgs2 came out before the infuse...worldwide atleast) but this does not mean our infuse is worthless. those other phones are upgrades indeed but the difference is hardly anything to bash your head against the wall for.
Also, get use to constantly not having the best gear, these phones come out frequently so the odd are any phone will no longer be top of the line a few months after it hits the market. Welcome to android
Tldr: grow thicker skin; read the rules; Infuse is still great; get use to upgrades coming out every few months.
carry on
Sent from my Infuse... Love it!
Thanks! Appreciate the feedback
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA App
So I’ve been seeing posts and threads floating around asking about Dev Support on the SkyRocket. There are two thoughts floating around. The first being that the SkyRocket will not have Dev support like Nexus or any other phone and we may as well give up on Dev Support, the second being that there is Dev Support and people actively working on the device. I tend to agree with the second thought so I wanted to post this up for everyone to think about.
First off we have to remember that Devs are not here to serve us. Most all Devs, regardless of device, do this as a hobby and like to share with others their hard work. Secondly, everyone should contribute SOMETHING to the community. Whether it’s advice on how to do something with our device, or links to good articles, links to deals on accessories or whatever, or if you have experience in development or gfxs or if you like to spread the word on social media. Whatever you want to do, just be a contributor to the community and the forum, I think if we all contribute more and take less, Dev support will grow and so will our community.
I also think it's awesome when people get excited about a ROM or Theme, that excitement gives the Devs postive feedback that helps them get excited. Basically what I am saying is positive feedback is just as important as the complaints and problem feedback. Probably more important, no one wants to be burden with problems constantly. An encouraging word can go a LONG way!
It’s just as important to be PROACTIVE in looking for answers to any questions you may have before you ask in the forums. It’s cool to ask a question but you should always be sure it wasn’t already answered. And be patient until someone can answer your question don’t start demanding answers if your post has only been up for a few hours, give people time to read it and digest it. Again this is just good community etiquette.
I am always available to PM if anyone ever has a question for me, I got no problem trying to help people and I enjoy seeing people figure things out. I do wallpapers, icons, docks and themes for our phones and I am a recognized Theme Dev on RootzWiki. I’m going to do my best to make the SkyRocket forums one of the greatest forums on xda. I’m not saying that to be prideful or boastful because I think we ALL need to do our best to make these forums the best they can be. We can’t just expect Devs to take the load, we got to ALL be proactive if we want good product.
All this being said, I think we have a great community started here. Looking forward to the future with all of you!
Alex
Mortem Tuam said:
So I’ve been seeing posts and threads floating around asking about Dev Support on the SkyRocket. There are two thoughts floating around. The first being that the SkyRocket will not have Dev support like Nexus or any other phone and we may as well give up on Dev Support, the second being that there is Dev Support and people actively working on the device. I tend to agree with the second thought so I wanted to post this up for everyone to think about.
First off we have to remember that Devs are not here to serve us. Most all Devs, regardless of device, do this as a hobby and like to share with others their hard work. Secondly, everyone should contribute SOMETHING to the community. Whether it’s advice on how to do something with our device, or links to good articles, links to deals on accessories or whatever, or if you have experience in development or gfxs or if you like to spread the word on social media. Whatever you want to do, just be a contributor to the community and the forum, I think if we all contribute more and take less, Dev support will grow and so will our community.
I also think it's awesome when people get excited about a ROM or Theme, that excitement gives the Devs postive feedback that helps them get excited. Basically what I am saying is positive feedback is just as important as the complaints and problem feedback. Probably more important, no one wants to be burden with problems constantly. An encouraging word can go a LONG way!
It’s just as important to be PROACTIVE in looking for answers to any questions you may have before you ask in the forums. It’s cool to ask a question but you should always be sure it wasn’t already answered. And be patient until someone can answer your question don’t start demanding answers if your post has only been up for a few hours, give people time to read it and digest it. Again this is just good community etiquette.
I am always available to PM if anyone ever has a question for me, I got no problem trying to help people and I enjoy seeing people figure things out. I do wallpapers, icons, docks and themes for our phones and I am a recognized Theme Dev on RootzWiki. I’m going to do my best to make the SkyRocket forums one of the greatest forums on xda. I’m not saying that to be prideful or boastful because I think we ALL need to do our best to make these forums the best they can be. We can’t just expect Devs to take the load, we got to ALL be proactive if we want good product.
All this being said, I think we have a great community started here. Looking forward to the future with all of you!
Alex
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Yes YES YES!!!!!!!
this is the Truth<<<<
thanks for this post Mortem
Very well put sir. Thank you
We also have to remember that some of these devs, myself included, have families.
Families should always come first and everyone should understand that, if someone doesn't understand that then that is seriously messed up.
This is one of the reasons I am taking a break from themes, family. I get so obsessed with the theme that my family suffers, my kids don't see me for days. It's just not right. And that is something I have to work on, and that is what I am trying to do. I need to learn to tell peeps here.....yo, I need to take a break I got family that needs me.....and if they understand cool, if not, tough luck.
Wallpapers are not so intensive, I can bang a wall out in no time.....but themes, that's a whole new beast and it is intensive.
At any rate, I am excited to see what our Devs can put out and excited to keep making wallpapers for all you guys that appreciate them.
Oh one more thing. You can never hit the THANKS button too many times. It really is a moral booster to see people appreciate your work. No one here is making money from donations, and hitting the Thanks button is free.
Amen brother.. thanks to all who help this forum rock... after the holidays i might start helping out theme wise. Icons etc.. but too busy til then . And its my busy season at work. Graphics...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium
Support your devs!!!! Speaking of which, I need to hit our current devs up with a donation each. All this time spent looking to lure new development onboard worries me that the current work is going on unappreciated
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using XDA App
I would like to publicly offer my skills to any developer that is currently working on SkyRocket ROMs.
Although at the moment I cannot work on full on themes I can certainly help you in the area of gfxs if need be, depending on what you need of course.
Please let me know if I can assist in anyway, and if it's in my ability I will certainly help.
and feel free to add me to Google Plus if you are there, send me a message and I will add you to my SkyRocket circle.
http://gplus.to/MortemTuam
Thanks
Alex
HELLO! Long time member here
Now its time for me to have a bit of a rant! Over the last few years, this site/forums, have gone downhill, the reason being....? Ignoring The rules and not doing things for yourselves!
I am not a mod, or admin, but I expect I speak on behalf of a large number of users/rom devs, when you see the same posts explaining the same thing again and again!
Such Enjoyable posts such as 'can I use xposed on this'. 'whats the battery like on this thing - even though the rom has just been released!!! whens the new update coming, and why not for my model?????
You see, I could never ever share a rom on here (I have made loads for myself, including a few for note 3), because of a small number of users WHO CANT POST in the right section, READ Q&A forum, or MOAN because they have bricked their handset because they have not read things properly!
XDA is a amazing site, and I have killed and revived hundreds of handsets, but people think its their god given right to expect the dev etc to hold their hands and go through every step of the flashing of roms, its a case of trial and error, the roms here are not always 100% stable, but people expect it to be! people expect the latest firmware, bits and bobs to be added all the time, the devs have real lifes, families, and jobs......they are doing you a favour....free!!
What I am saying is, please respect the devs, the forum mods, and post in correct sections!!! use search.....or a little site called google.......any of you can inbox me with any problems you have
Anyway I LOVE YOU ALL
Couldn't have said it better. I know several developers who have mostly migrated to other forums due, in large part, to the things you mentioned.
I too have put together a number of ROMs, full themes, and apps, the majority of which I've either kept for personal use, or shared only with select individuals, because it's almost become a burden to publicly release them here. Alliance has an unofficial rule where any time someone asks about an update, we postpone releasing one, but even that doesn't stop the incessant stream of repeated questions that we get (the majority of which are already answered in the OP).
A lot of the members here don't seem to understand that this is, first and foremost, a developers site, and they act as if they're entitled to something or that the devs somehow owe them something. I've never understood that mindset; Whenever I've wanted to modify something, in any way, I've put in the time (sometimes years) needed to learn how to do it myself, and if I ever got stuck, have sought guidance from more knowledgable people. That doesn't seem to happen much any more.
XDA has gone through some major changes, and has grown almost exponentially in the 9 years that I've been here, and I couldn't be happier for its' success, but some things have certainly, and unfortunately, been lost along the way.
There is also the issue of people who steal others work. The number of devs I have seen leave xda because of that is quite high. It is not ok and it is against the rules for people to do it but they still do. Once the devs who put the time in to create the mods leave nothing new happens because no one knows how to do anything without copy and paste or even have their own original ideas.
Same old same old since XDA moved from a developers forum to a forum for those that don't know and refuse to read/ learn .
I gave up years ago and try to ignore the idiot posts .
@JJEgan: You really gave up, years ago, with that post count?
Anyway, the problem is newcomers. They don't search, they don't read, but their demands are high all the same, that's the most saddening part I think.
All the ROM/ Kernel topics should have a separate Q&A section. But at the same time I think its needed to be mentioned that OP (Original Post) should contain all the needed informations too, sometimes they don't!
Yes is the answer to first question .
Only time i use the forums is nowadays for a new rom .
I've been visiting xda, as a lurker, for years (since about '07-'08) and only created an account a couple of years ago. (Hence the low/non-existant post count.) I may not have ever released any of my own fiddlings for my phone(s), but I have borrowed some of the knowledge from the fine developers and learned more about my phone(s). It also annoys the hell outta me to see so many people refusing to learn about the equipment they use everyday and expect to have people, busting their asses (on their own time & dime), just bow down and cater to the weak-minded and lazy masses. It's sad... If someone's too lazy to do the homework before they go flash happy, then I feel they deserve the bricks. I have nothing but mad respect for the devs who put their work out there, regardless of quality! To play off of what Morningstar said, I think it's great that there's a bit of a slap on the hand, from the devs, of the disrespectful, over-eager ones who get too grabby-- command respect wherever you can! HAHAHA!
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
@DSA thats a great name from the past! I used to love your Blackbox roms from a couple years back, remember it used to amazing, and can remember too, that you closed your thread due to the same sort of thing.....people posting non development stuff.......I managed to sell a old s4 about 8 months back that had your rom on it (the bloke preferred a 4.4.2 rom)
DEV section should be for DEVs ONLY. There should be a category in which you have to be invited to be able to post there. Rest must go to Q/A section IMO. I am mod myself, not of a such big forum like XDA, but from ReactOS forums. Even there you have stupid children starting a rant with their first post or more often just post a stupid question answered two posts above! Same like here, just not that many ppl flooding you ^^ I started to give away free warnings and bans to minimize the negative impact we have there after any public booth we had somewhere etc. Telling ppl not to do X and Y and what are they doing? X AND Y OF COURSE! You write it in the first post in RED AND CAPS LOCK and ppl still don't read it. Then they show up to rant that their PC is dead, hamster is pregnant, phone fell into the fish tank and whatever else you might be the evil guy for. I completely second AND support that opinion of the OP.
In my opinion only Devs, Mods and Senior Members (maybe with some criteria, ex. by registration date and/or by number thanks) should be able to post on the Development section.
I would assume that most Senior Members with several years of registration, and with at least 50 thanks would know the forum rules.
Closing the Dev section only to Devs would bring very little input and feedback.
pacc said:
In my opinion only Devs, Mods and Senior Members (maybe with some criteria, ex. by registration date and/or by number thanks) should be able to post on the Development section.
I would assume that most Senior Members with several years of registration, and with at least 50 thanks would know the forum rules.
Closing the Dev section only to Devs would bring very little input and feedback.
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Thats what the Q/A is for.
emuandco said:
Thats what the Q/A is for.
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You're right, but many senior members know programming and their contribution to development would be lost in the extensive list of Q/A.
Hopefully XDA will figure something out.
I am of the opposite opinion.
Ten years ago you asked a question you got a reply. Simple and practical.
Now you have to put up with a stream of people moaning and lamenting the nerve of someone daring to ask a question that has been asked before, usually because the op has not been updated or has such useful instructions as:
Installation instructions:
1. Install
So now instead of having a simple question and answer we just have the questions and the moaners; people who conveniently forget that they had their own questions earlier and act instead as guardians of some sacred knowledge which you must trawl through a several thousand page long thread (or three or four separate threads) before being worthy to dare ask a question.
My two cents.
1. That's what the search function is for. There's a rule, search first, ask questions later. I mean if not found.
2. There's also the attitude problem with people being entitled to anything, as if they are doing a favor for using the roms. No doubt, bugs can only be found if enough people are using it, and they are beta testing it this way for the developers, but still the work here is done by the developers.
3. But this is true until a developer starts accepting donations. I believe while somebody is doing in his free time, on his own dime, he/she can decide what questions to address. But after receiving the first donation at least the real documented bugs should all be answered at least with an "I'm looking into it".
4. OP should grant moderator rights for his/her topic, and purge irrelevant stuff.
My 2c.
istperson said:
1. That's what the search function is for. There's a rule, search first, ask questions later. I mean if not found.
2. There's also the attitude problem with people being entitled to anything, as if they are doing a favor for using the roms. No doubt, bugs can only be found if enough people are using it, and they are beta testing it this way for the developers, but still the work here is done by the developers.
3. But this is true until a developer starts accepting donations. I believe while somebody is doing in his free time, on his own dime, he/she can decide what questions to address. But after receiving the first donation at least the real documented bugs should all be answered at least with an "I'm looking into it".
4. OP should grant moderator rights for his/her topic, and purge irrelevant stuff.
My 2c.
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I wholeheartedly agree with your numbers 1,2, and 4. I take exception with number 3 though. The donation is a thank you for what the person has done. Like tipping a waiter at a restaurant ... better job done .. better tip. But that is done at the end. Appreciation for a job well done. Maybe next trip you get really good service ... maybe you get someone else. My point is that making the donation doesn't give anyone the right to "expect" more. Most donations are minimal .. very nice to receive ... but normally small. So if you send someone $5 and expect more, you are putting a very small value on their time.
The majority of crap that clogs the threads is people not searching as stated previously. It's obvious that some people are just too lazy or have come to expect to be hand fed the information. They even state in the post thing like "too many post to look at" and "just don't have the time to look" ( for themselves). If I search and find the answer for them, I usually put in my post a link to the post with the answer as well as the amount of time I spent searching (usually less than a minute). This normally brings out the hatred in people, but I really don't care.
This thread has surprised me in that it hasn't turned into a battleground yet. Nice that opinions can flow and discussions can happen without the need for a mod to calm the situation. We all know it won't change anything on xda .. it is what it is. It has changed a lot since I started a few years ago. I just tend to stay in threads that are suited to my nature and with people with sense of humor like mine. The others that I follow that are not like that, I tend to remain silent(ish).
Some things like total disrespect for someones work really set me off. I have seen people tell other themers that their work is ugly or tell them how it should look. I look at their profile and they have produced nothing here. Multiple threads started about help me this and that, and request for things to be done. It just chaps my ass. But it is what it is. Anyway ... Rant over ... thanks OP for the thread.
Bubba said:
I wholeheartedly agree with your numbers 1,2, and 4. I take exception with number 3 though. The donation is a thank you for what the person has done. Like tipping a waiter at a restaurant ... better job done .. better tip. But that is done at the end. Appreciation for a job well done. Maybe next trip you get really good service ... maybe you get someone else. My point is that making the donation doesn't give anyone the right to "expect" more. Most donations are minimal .. very nice to receive ... but normally small. So if you send someone $5 and expect more, you are putting a very small value on their time.
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No you're right, I agree, it's not the value of the work just saying it's appreciated.
What I was trying to say was that if being correct only those will accept donations who are really determined to have a relatively complete rom made, and by complete I mean compared to what is announced in the OP. And if people appreciate it then at least every well documented bug report would be nice if it was acknowledged. Just to show that this is really a contribution to the development if someone gives links to logcats, and gives steps to reproduction. And by no means what is very frequent here: "This sucks, fix it!!!!!!!111111One"
istperson said:
3. But this is true until a developer starts accepting donations. I believe while somebody is doing in his free time, on his own dime, he/she can decide what questions to address. But after receiving the first donation at least the real documented bugs should all be answered at least with an "I'm looking into it".
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Your last post cleared things up a bit, and I think I get your point, but I still completely disagree with this statement.
Every developer I know here (including myself), has a 'real' job, and does development work solely as a hobby in their spare time. A donation is just that. it's not solicited or expected, it's simply a way of showing appreciation and thanking a dev for the work that they've done.
Personally, the things that I've shared here publicly and/or are included in others' releases are the product of several hundred hours (and probably more than that) of work. I've received a few donations, but the total sum doesn't even amount to one full day's pay at my 'real' job, so I would say everything I do is on 'my time' and 'my dime'.
Morningstar said:
Your last post cleared things up a bit, and I think I get your point, but I still completely disagree with this statement.
Every developer I know here (including myself), has a 'real' job, and does development work solely as a hobby in their spare time. A donation is just that. it's not solicited or expected, it's simply a way of showing appreciation and thanking a dev for the work that they've done.
Personally, the things that I've shared here publicly and/or are included in others' releases are the product of several hundred hours (and probably more than that) of work. I've received a few donations, but the total sum doesn't even amount to one full day's pay at my 'real' job, so I would say everything I do is on 'my time' and 'my dime'.
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100 percent agreed. I have spent thousands of hours on my personal theme for alliance that i freely share. Same for apps that I also share. I have received only a couple of donations. Not that I care. But they are nice. I appreciate the thanks clicked just as much.
But again the point is ... It's a thank you ... not a purchase with a promise. Knowing the people that @Morningstar and myself know through this hobby is (to me) humbling. The average user could never begin to comprehend the time and effort ... and dedication ... maybe even some OCDC ... that goes into building or theming a rom or app.
It IS hard work and I am always grateful to the amazing helpful members who make coming here enjoyable and who vastly outnumber the vocal whiny minority of spoiled douches.
My 2c ?
Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk
Welcome to the new world,Facebook and the deliberate dumbing down of the masses.. Its no accident that the general public aren't as bright as they were,ask any teacher how new age teaching just isn't as good as the old ways.
I can see and share your frustrations but there a lot of factors
young people have more disposable income I see 12yr olds with S6s and other high end phones
young people have been spoilt and are treated like little prince/princesses because the parents are so busy earning a living they can't give them time so spoil them or try to buy their love creating needy lazy demanding kids
the general assumption is that young people are internet savvy but this is far from the truth, I see classes of kids every day in the high school years who still don't realise that you can type an address into a web browser they do a search for the same site every day and then click the link. If google was shut down the world would end for a lot of people
samsung have released so many different models and variants which wasn't the case in the past so people have a lot more issues world wide
upgrading custom roms were probably less buggy than ported roms which are released now as betas, maybe they shouldn't be? it seems to be a bit much too ask for many to comprehend
xda's popularity and some people over eagerness to help beginners encourages too many people without enough skills to attempt highly risky things
there are a lot more postings of high end roms and later versions of android onto older hardware so many more issues than in the past where it was more cosmetic adjustments and feature add ons
there are a lot more asian developers so there are a lot of roms that are released and have to be made international (more issues)
a lot of the roms threads are terrible now possibly due to different cultures again
compare note2 threads with note3 threads,note 2 were usually logical with all files in OP are now a lot of note 3 threads are a mess with sometimes note3 base note4 base s6 base and note 5 in same thread and questions and fixes are just donated randomly all through the thread by anyone rather than dev only.
I would consider myself an experienced xda lurker but following just a note 3 means trying to keep on top of many different threads to just make sense out of peoples cross thread posts its very time consuming
a lot of thread starters need to be a lot more organised in the OP and control their threads more, removing comments that are about other roms etc,I think because they know and follow all the other threads as well as there own they assume everyone reading is doing the same. I do feel sorry for someone blindly trying to get started now but a well controlled thread would make huge difference,list known bugs themselves in the OP,
Some developers might be better to hand their thread over to someone enthusiastic to control the thread on their behalf to get back to the great examples set by omega,bobcat ,phoenix ,resurrection dr keten
there are some fantastically helpful and nice people on these forums and some incredibly bright ones but society is what it is
personally I blame Facebook