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OK so i know this is the wrong forum, BUT I came across this and wanted to "bump" it so to speak. This was posted by kyphur in 08 and in a mods sig now. Please read and adhere to the spirit of the post. It is RIGHT ON!!!
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
the idea is not that only developers should be looking at this site, but that this is a place where developers communicate with each other and the beneficiaries of their work. This is not the place for someone to post threads about general questions about how to use or mod their device. This is a place that will develop the capabilities of the android platform if it is allowed. Developers WILL abandon this forum if it becomes a bulletin board or a technical support site.....and if you need a question answered, there are other forums on THIS site to address those.
Agreed 100%. While developing for the Windows mobile, I also got the same thing. I would post a thread and WARN people of a certain things and tell them how to fix it. Then I'd get 30 pages of "geeze, you broke something. how do you fix it?" That gets annoying real fast. I would love it if this forum forced people to take a test before they could post in the development sections... Before that, they should only be able to post in the regular sections.
One thing that really bugs me is the fact that the newbs don't want to search but don't realize that they take OUR time to search FOR them. No one knows everything. Every developer on this site searches and learns. I know that if you put together all the time that I've spent on this site JUST researching and searching, it'd be MONTHS and MONTHS of non-stop, no sleep searching and researching. So why can't the average person search for 2 minutes? Is their time worth more than my time?
/rant - while talking on the phone so it might not make sense...
Pinesal said:
Maybe you can recommend an alternative site for people who just want the newest tweaks and software.
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There are thousands, but essentially all they do is copy stuff off here.
Like the post said, if you just want to root your phone so it can do 'cool stuff' and not give a **** about how the damn thing works then maybe you shouldn't be modding your phone (that wasn't aimed at you btw, just 'people' in general the market place is made up of 99% 'these people' who don't/can't read and it's pretty irritating.)
Agree with the post 100%, fantastic
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
Agreed. It's really, really, really, really getting to me. I wish OP's had semi-moderator power. They could at least delete all necessary posts and ban that user - if required- for a certain amount of time from their thread only.
jubeh said:
You said it, this is in the wrong forum.
You're not an admin and although you can spend your time here (and pretty much all of your posts) reporting out-of-place threads, you're still not an admin.
People always wonder into communities and it always takes a while to learn the way things work. Mickey is doing a good job on closing and moving threads that are unrelated to development.
With that said...
Reported.
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ughh, no i'm not an admin, and no almost all my posts, or the majority, or a half are reported threads, but i do try to help out the mods when i can. they are not on all forums at all times and can use the help, and they have said as much.
Oh thank you thank you! People here should want to understand why thing the work as they work. Not just want their phones to look cool.
As it you wouldnt know it, i have been with xda for years well since the titan came out. before that i was modding an ipaq and of course the old palms. everyonce in awhile i lose interest and move on only to come back when i have something new(major a.d.d). i do write java as well as c and even c++(so on) i typically find this place useful to try stuff out and even set up my own custom rom just for me. i dont post because i can google. while i have many of my own questions i would like answered i simply dont ask most of the time(such as using micro kernels and modding app2sd to make the os have two options sd in or out. however the problem is not the generations or age difference or anything like that. its social systems outside of xda. posting a reply used to mean an answer or something useful. now its normal to simply post "great job". thats nice and all but maybe instead of complaining about it we should come up with a new system that improves xda. like a sorting system or sub thread system and set up catagorys for our replys. like thumbs up would be for the "good job". i know its hard to keep everyone happy but this is a forum first, a forum has design problems when you get the number of people xda has. use advanced search it helps a lot. a sorting system with requirements for certain catagorys would help devs. its not easy modding and getting it right and you cant do it alone. xda is the help even if its not your phone sometimes others have solutions too. such as winmo users putting android on their phones(yes i did it too my old titan for fun). things i learned and other devs learn can help us and vice versa. i have yet to find bad technology only poorly thought out ideas that could have been. which is why we mod.
p.s. wtf is up with palm and blackberry ads all the time.
Most of those kids just want the answer or fix in the next 3min. with perfect steps or a patch that supposedly will fix and hack their device,after that they´ll never show up.
All they want is to show off without bothering to read.
I totaly understand. I do feel sometimes that certain devs do get a bit annoyed with people who just want to fix the phone and not understand. I'm not linux or coding wiz. But whe I got here in may I was one of the people who just wanted me phone to be better than urs. I still have that to some extent but I have developed more of a "how and what is causeing this issue" attitude. I try to contribute as best as I can. Helping out over at q&a as best as I can. I enjoy xda and without my days would be more boring than what the are now. I dunno I guess I'm just rambling. Bottom line is I have tried to correct my attitude toward modding. Hell I even post my email so users can drop a line if they need help.
i am 20 and i fondly remember blowing into my nes super nes and genesis games.
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
saprano614 said:
i am pretty new to XDA. when i first found this site all i wanted was a quick fix. now i am getting more intrested in the actual dev aspect. i want to be able to create my own rom eventualy. yes i do find myself asking stupid questions and getting some foul responses but in my opinion no question is a stupid one. only the one not asked. yes alot of people just want a fix but there are new users who want to learn. like me. so i appreciate the help i have recieved from most members. and i alwasy appoligise for my stupidity. so dont get down on all noobs because alot of us want to learn and the only way to is to ask.
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nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
jaaronmoody said:
nobody is getting down on noobs. ONLY the site users who FAIL to post questions and general comments in the correct forum
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Just want to make a statement befor someone did.
I thank you for this post. I came to this forum a long time ago I have learned quite a bit and appreciate everything that is done here. There are very skillful people that are on here and I wish I had the amount of skill then thesemodders, hackers, developers etc... have I keep my mouth shut unless i feel there is some thing that i know how to answer, i have never complained about a single rom i simply research what can be done to change for fix it, all answers rely in a search somewhere either here or google. I just wish other people would do the same then we would be able to prevent a 300+ page threads where only about 25 pages are worth anything.
look at the amount of posts from someone who knows they are barley able to contrubute(but do what he can) and been here this long. compared to people who have been here dont have much to contribute but love to post everything that comes to thier minds.
Join Date
22nd October 2006
Total Posts
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samygent said:
we sadly are living in the (ME) world
there is such a huge gape beetween the 10-19 generation and 20-29
10-19 generation is living in such an easy world, they never had to blow into their nintendo cassettes , know how heavy a quantum bigfoot is or what RTFM mean's
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HEY!
im 18 and clearly remember blowing into those damn games to make them work. but when they worked, so much fun i still think theyre better than the crappy xbox and ps3 games of today... but thats just me. lol
pleeease yall! let's keep THIS thread on topic! LOL!!
First of many topics. Two of the major developers for the #Thunderbolt have departed ways with XDA. It is a sad day to say the least, but one that has been coming. What are your thoughts? New Devs must have a point of view. What is the state of XDA? Will foul mouthed trolls keep pushing great developers out of XDA?
*edit* Mispelling, since I know people are strict on grammar
I think a lot of the problem is the combination of elitist attitudes (really funny when a lot of these people don't contribute a damn thing) and newbs that want to be spoonfed without even putting in the slightest effort.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using Tapatalk
I think we should stop having threads like these every 2 hours...
The Facebook generation at its best. I've been lurking for a year, active over a month. In that time the forums have literally degraded into anarchy. The moderators here at XDA have to accept some, if not all, of the blame. Growing pains maybe, but their actions in some cases and lack of any action whatsoever in really any of the threads speaks volumes.
courtesy of my rooted Bolt
g00s3y said:
I think we should stop having threads like these every 2 hours...
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This is the General section... Do you really have that big of a problem with people beginning their own thread to discuss a topic that interests them strictly because the conversation has already been had in a different thread..? In my opinion, you just spot-on proved what dbu said. If you honestly don't have a positive contribution to any given thread, then why even throw in your two cents? You've done nothing but spread negativity.
Anyway, I think a combination of flame wars, reoccurring problems, and flat-out disrespect has driven many of the TB's devs away. I've been active on XDA for all of a month, but the way in which older members act towards new ones really puts me off to contributing to any thread within a mile of the development section. That's not to say that every older member acts rudely towards every newer one, but that's certainly the trend I observe here, and quite frankly, putting myself in the shoes of the BAMF team or Chingy, I wouldn't want to be a contributing member of a community like this one. I'm sure it hasn't always been this way, but presently it is, and that's really a shame.
I have been a long time lurker too and i can agree. I am someone who can appreciate the hardwork of these devs but quite frankly I think some are too quickly to get there butt hurt over what some tard is saying.
Sometimes I feel like we are in a locker room and everyone's strutting around trying to proove how big there junk is.
If someone wants to depart because of rumors, he said she said, or what have ya. That's cool. Best of luck.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App
Dev's leaving because of people acting childish...please!!!
I've been on XDA long enough to know dev on dev disputes are the most childish, frequent, longest lasting and tit for tat of all the non sense that goes on in these forums. they as a whole cant even regulate the foolishness amongst themselves so they really have no room for fingerpointing.. Between this phone and my last rarely had a day or two gone by without one dev jumping into another dev's thread throwing a jab or an insult and even after it appears resolved three months later same two devs are in some thread back at it as if they are unfamiliar with the PM button.
That said guess what, it was perfectly fine by me. Not like I was paying for any of this (yes I have donated). Just dont tell me these devs are above the problem and not apart of it.
I also dont really understand why people are so pissed they have to go somewhere other than XDA to get roms like they get free mints by using XDA. I use gingeritis and I dont give a rats ass where its hosted as long as its hosted.
people take things too seriously on the "internet".
it's not new for devs to get pissed and leave xda.... im sure bamf will be back as i doubt his roms will get that much exposure on a different site. sucks as i love bamf 2.1, i didn't even know he left until this morning. the worst part about hosting on another site is troubleshooting and general questions. these sites never seem to be a hive of activity and not many answer questions there.
Bamf is leaving in protest of xda censoring someone's religious signature, not because of trolls.
Sent from my Bolt
fixxxer2008 said:
people take things too seriously on the "internet".
it's not new for devs to get pissed and leave xda.... im sure bamf will be back as i doubt his roms will get that much exposure on a different site. sucks as i love bamf 2.1, i didn't even know he left until this morning. the worst part about hosting on another site is troubleshooting and general questions. these sites never seem to be a hive of activity and not many answer questions there.
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How do you figure this, because you are that lazy to goto their webpage, they said that about energy roms for the imago and his stuff ended up being the most used, if you want the best you will search for it our even easier follow them
Sent to you via my handheld cellular communications device
I have been here for a few months.
I struggled trying to learn some stuff to contriburte to themeing and stuff. I will tell i agree with some others as to the problems:
1. Some of these dev(no names at all) likr to share info and help spread the info, while others have this holier than thou attidude. Just search, or google it is not an answer. I don;t want to be sppon feed, but if you can't answer in a good manner, then skip the message and move on. The dev's should never been calling users idiot's, stupid, or whatever name they can come up with. This site was here to share, and for them to develope thier wares.
2. Moderators play a huge role as to why this is goign downhill. I have report several items in which i think a conversation has goen to far, and not once have ever gotten a response back from a moderator. Not a will look into it, I talk to the person.. nothing.. So one gets the feelign unless your a dev, or been here a long time, you get anything from a moderator.... dang shame.
3. Why are not the moderator taken a more active role? You how many times you can go into the many, many threads and see someone name calling or even cursing? I could care less about cursing per say, but this type of envioriment has no place for it. No a single thing from moderators... nothing...
4. There have been some that put some much into this, and get cetain threads stickied.. I love those people.. But as word gets out about this site, more users will be here vs devs, and unless some control is put into place this community will continue to go downhill.
And now I return you to your nomally scheduled programming...
I agree that the mods play a huge roll in a lot of this. Many of them do no moderating at all, which is a shame. Personally I think Xda has grown to large with not enough oversight to many threads on exactly the same thing, usually on the same page. Time was a mod would step in and either merge them, or lock all but one.
And yes, at times Google it or search for it is the correct answer. How else does one learn but by research and coming to the answer. Getting handed the answer may allow someone to do something, but they have no idea why it was that way, nor in many cases how to fix something if it occurs later. By looking for the answer ave finding it, the person is generally better able to help themselves later on.
sent from my bolt
People get way too worked up over these forums. The whole idea of forums is a way to exchange ideas and opinions, it is a guarantee that people will disagree or get mad. Yes there will be trolls and flamers. If this is too traumatizing, maybe just stick to published articles. To try and pretend you understand why a dev makes a personal decision over whether he is going to be associated with this site or not is a little ridiculous. I didn't read much of Chingy's threads, but BAMF's were overwhelmingly positive.
Also, not everybody spends 24x7 reading these threads, so if someone posts a thread slightly similar to an existing one I have no problem with it. The people who cry about this over and over again are worse than any trolls IMO. No one forces you to click on the thread and read it.
despite this post....
kurttrail said:
Bamf is leaving in protest of xda censoring someone's religious signature, not because of trolls.
Sent from my Bolt
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people continue to talk about trolls, disrespect and noob questions....
I thought this thread was about BAMF?
MattBeyers said:
This is the General section... Do you really have that big of a problem with people beginning their own thread to discuss a topic that interests them strictly because the conversation has already been had in a different thread..? In my opinion, you just spot-on proved what dbu said. If you honestly don't have a positive contribution to any given thread, then why even throw in your two cents? You've done nothing but spread negativity.
Anyway, I think a combination of flame wars, reoccurring problems, and flat-out disrespect has driven many of the TB's devs away. I've been active on XDA for all of a month, but the way in which older members act towards new ones really puts me off to contributing to any thread within a mile of the development section. That's not to say that every older member acts rudely towards every newer one, but that's certainly the trend I observe here, and quite frankly, putting myself in the shoes of the BAMF team or Chingy, I wouldn't want to be a contributing member of a community like this one. I'm sure it hasn't always been this way, but presently it is, and that's really a shame.
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I agree with you. The way the members who have been on XDA over 6 months treat the newer members is ridiculous and some people never have anything positive to contribute and just browse XDA to piss on the posts and threads of others. I for one used to tell people all the time that they've posted in the wrong thread but realized that it: 1) wasn't my job to police the threads: 2) It did nothing but spread negative energy, so I learned to ignore them. Making other members feel like dopes is extremely counter productive.
Just as a side, no one knows what the future will bring and in my opinion XDA will be fine. When I had the captivate one of the favorite developers over there (DG) left for a little while and everyone thought the sky was falling, he eventually came back stronger. I'm not saying that team bamf will return, but hey, you never know.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk
And also, I saw the most disgusting post yesterday by another member in the sense 3 thread that I've ever seen on this forum, which he later tried to edit. Freedom of speech doesn't free you from wrath of public opinion nor give you the right to be an ass. People really have no idea what freedom of speech means.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk
I think the problem is a bunch of elitist nerds sitting behind a desk looking for drama. They wanted to leave these boards to promote their own board - end of story. Its really simple to just ignore trolls. They want sympathy and everyone to follow them to their website.
teambamf.net
lrs421 said:
And also, I saw the most disgusting post yesterday by another member in the sense 3 thread that I've ever seen on this forum, which he later tried to edit. Freedom of speech doesn't free you from wrath of public opinion nor give you the right to be an ass. People really have no idea what freedom of speech means.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk
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You expect people on an internet message board to use common sense, that went out the window the first day AOL 2.0 came out.
erishasnobattery said:
On this point, let me play out a little scenario for everyone. I'm 31 years old, have a foul mouth, tough skin, and don't give a crap attitude. I'm not offended by anything that is ever said on these forums, because let's be honest, internet tough guys are pretty amusing to watch.
However, I have a 14 year old stepdaughter with a MyTouch 4G. She saw Unity running on my Bolt, and really wanted the same thing on her phone. She's a smart kid, and a bit of tech nerd, so I figured I'd teach her how to root it and flash the ROM herself so she could get a little sense of accomplishment and maybe learn something in the process.
I couldn't even let her read the forums in good conscience. It's eff this and ish that all over this place. When I started on XDA, there were very few devices and the G1, Hero, Eris and Droid 1 were the big ones. It was a really close knit community with a lot of quality people helping each other out. You can still look at some of those older forums and find some great people (both users and devs).
That's not to say there aren't great people lurking around now, but unfortunately, their worthwhile comments get drowned out by the useless nonsense. It's the useless nonsense that I feel causes more problems than anything. Someone says "Hey, I'm having problem A" and within 15 minutes you have either 1) 13 replies of "+1 lol, 10Chars" or 2) 13 replies of "Why didn't you search you idiot. You're so noob".
So now, we've bumped an entire page of useless garbage. Now me personally, I won't read back more than 2 or 3 pages when I check our threads in the morning, so what happens to the legitimate question? It get's lost in the BS.
I get that XDA has grown probably far more than ever anticipated and it requires tons of moderators and maintenance, but how can KernelRapist be ok, but I can't put "I love Jesus" in my sig? Anyway, I miss the old XDA, and maybe it will be back some day, but for now, I'll lurk, but you'll see me over at the Team BAMF forums.
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I originally posted this over in the 1.8.6 Thread in response to someone's mindless banter about us leaving because our feelings were hurt or whatever.
Although I can't speak for everyone, the above is why I'm leaving. XDA has become one huge flame war and a place for "kids" to vent their rage. I use quotations, because I mean kids mentally, regardless of age. Some of the most talented and respectful people I have met on these forums are still teenagers and then on the flipside I find out some foul mouthed flamer is a 40 something with 3 kids.
Although this isn't true of every device's forums, I'm seeing it in more and more of them at time progresses. Like I said above, I'll still lurk, as will most of the team most likely. We do still have a lot of friends on other devices over here, but it's just too much nonsense to sift through to progress our development any further in this environment.
erishasnobattery said:
I originally posted this over in the 1.8.6 Thread in response to someone's mindless banter about us leaving because our feelings were hurt or whatever.
Although I can't speak for everyone, the above is why I'm leaving. XDA has become one huge flame war and a place for "kids" to vent their rage. I use quotations, because I mean kids mentally, regardless of age. Some of the most talented and respectful people I have met on these forums are still teenagers and then on the flipside I find out some foul mouthed flamer is a 40 something with 3 kids.
Although this isn't true of every device's forums, I'm seeing it in more and more of them at time progresses. Like I said above, I'll still lurk, as will most of the team most likely. We do still have a lot of friends on other devices over here, but it's just too much nonsense to sift through to progress our development any further in this environment.
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uh... so just ignore it?
I've been a loyalist to the SL i9003 forum, From the day the threads went up to when we were grouped under the Galaxy S section as a sub base, Honestly despite moving onto greener pastures the SL i9003 has always been my first choice in the android department, hence why I still keep my SLi9003 and why I would spend as much as it takes to keep it alive than any other higher tier class phones.
First, this thread means no threat, but ofcourse, this is General section and anything goes, The moderators have been doing a splendid job, and if anything what surprises me the most is the activity----in a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section, but a few things have irked me.
I have stood around in the Hillbeast thread and side with Dhiru's and both are what's "Hot" or what's keeping thing's alive here, in a place where development has met it's scarcity. I agree the moderators have done their job properly in keeping things in line where patience runs short considering both developers (Or might I recognize just one- Hey it's the truth, monkey see, monkey do) depend on each other's work to keep the phone in it's tip top shape, but why has the moderation been so strict?
If anything this is the Legacy & Low Activity Devices and we have been shot down from once a standard recognized phone, to the abyss of low tier phones, I would agree there is alot of noob questions being asked, and alot of ruckus about the recent events, but aren't we, the community to decide and voice our opinions out? I would agree the noob questions/statements need to be rubbed off from the thread but I feel the manner of erasing certain posts and thread has gone a bit---overboard and I feel this thread would meet it's match soon. Again, I mean no disrespect to the fine moderators who have done their job properly. I just feel someone had to state this out.
And why? A small share, I was told recently I had been featured on XDA and I didn't even know it (GTab 10.1) so I decided to Google myself, upon doing so, I had seen my threads been offlinked, copy pasted from the GT-i9003 section into other forums, usually I'd ignore this but I noticed most of them are scared to ask or post because of the strict moderation that goes around that too on a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section. Most of them require the tutorial guide in order to move forward to dhiru's ROM because everyone knows if you screw up while flashing a firmware, you end up having a screwed phone not worth having a "blessing" on. I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
This has just been going on for a while, and I feel I needed to say this, perhaps most of the community would agree with me on this.
Good job once again to the moderators. With all due respect.
thats really true ....
well said brother !!!
Hope Mods doesn't delete this topic also !!!
nicely said ! if it wasnt u, i would have posted such ! because things do seem to get out of hand ! before you kno it most of the important posts are deleted without the concerned developers reading it!
shriomman said:
nicely said ! if it wasnt u, i would have posted such ! because things do seem to get out of hand ! before you kno it most of the important posts are deleted without the concerned developers reading it!
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I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
Misledz said:
I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
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Ya especially feedback by senior member for hillbeast & not stupid feedback by stupid noobs who have recently joined this forum (who dont know history of this fotum).
@ misledz
Well said brother
@OP .. or anyone else ... care to explain all this in a more of layman's term. Just for literarily inept people like me.
What exactly happened? What was posted and then removed?
Only then I might be able to participate in this debate.
Flame me for my opinions but not for my questions.
Hetalk said:
@OP .. or anyone else ... care to explain all this in a more of layman's term. Just for literarily inept people like me.
What exactly happened? What was posted and then removed?
Only then I might be able to participate in this debate.
Flame me for my opinions but not for my questions.
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More or less when we placed our expectations on HB we had hoped there would be more of a response than ignorance. Instead the posts got deleted, thread got cleaned and such.
@krazzy Wow I didn't think id' see you here too
^^ Now I see what exactly you're saying.
Even I felt that after months(weeks if you say so) of inactivity for a much awaited and critical development, asking for a ETA(disguised or not) shouldn't be considered a taboo/bane.
People (current senior members) knew(anticipated) this was critical to further development for this device, and decided to donate for a device to get a willing (note this word) and experienced developer to help in this project.
For new users , before posting anything, please understand that lack of development on this front is taking a toll on the very few developers we have for this device. I personally know a couple of devs, who could have helped in this development, if it really happened, who have moved on for greener pastures.
I repeat, these seniors who are (unnecessarily?) asking for ETAs aren't asking after a week from initial announcement/donation.
This is just my opinion, as I felt obliged to post it.
I agree with you:
Improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
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But it is also true that most of the time things are not done the way they should be. I'll use as an example Hillbeast's Kernel 3.x thread too:
Since the beginning, hillbeast stated users should use [Q/A] thread for inquiries and different stuff instead of the development thread, but people continued posting questions in that thread. At first, hillbeast answered almost every question; then, people started asking for ETA and such annoying things, and that's something we could not allow. Finally, moderators appeared and cleaned the whole thread, and now they keep it 'cleaned', also deleting questions not directly related with kernel 3.x development, which at first were more or less tolerated.
To sum up, the ones who worsened the situation were we, people who don't understand the current problems developers are facing, and that led to moderators deleting posts of people just asking questions because they are noobs or they want to know what's going on.
I know it because I've been in this forum for a year and a half (I am not a developer nor a contributor, so I try to keep quiet and just press thanks or give some feedback, that's why I only have a few posts), and i've been reading that thread regularly, at least once a day, since the first post.
I am not blaming anybody, I just think that the way moderators behave has its own reasons...
As we say in Spain, "Al final pagan justos por pecadores", that means something like: "In the end, pay righteous people because of sinners" (sorry for the translation, that's the only way I came up to express it.
Cheers!
@matapollos that's going as my status for the day ! And that has so much truth to it, I've been watching the HB thread ever since it started. Seen the people who took the initiative to help him but a developer is only as strong as the community that favors him, If anything HB should have kept his word, the community had kept theirs on the phone. It just feels---wrong? Yes you will help and answer but there's a saying in english, All bark and no bite. Actions should match what was preached.
As I just woke up and haven't had any coffee, I am not going to do anything with this yet until I have a chance to go through it properly.
OK, gotta run off to work, but here is something.
Misledz said:
I've been a loyalist to the SL i9003 forum, From the day the threads went up to when we were grouped under the Galaxy S section as a sub base, Honestly despite moving onto greener pastures the SL i9003 has always been my first choice in the android department, hence why I still keep my SLi9003 and why I would spend as much as it takes to keep it alive than any other higher tier class phones.
First, this thread means no threat, but ofcourse, this is General section and anything goes, The moderators have been doing a splendid job, and if anything what surprises me the most is the activity----in a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section,
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Thanks.
Misledz said:
but a few things have irked me.
I have stood around in the Hillbeast thread and side with Dhiru's and both are what's "Hot" or what's keeping thing's alive here, in a place where development has met it's scarcity. I agree the moderators have done their job properly in keeping things in line where patience runs short considering both developers (Or might I recognize just one- Hey it's the truth, monkey see, monkey do) depend on each other's work to keep the phone in it's tip top shape, but why has the moderation been so strict?
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I assure you that I am taking actions based on reports. I do not own a Galaxy SL so I am not here other than for mod purposes.
Misledz said:
If anything this is the Legacy & Low Activity Devices and we have been shot down from once a standard recognized phone, to the abyss of low tier phones, I would agree there is alot of noob questions being asked, and alot of ruckus about the recent events, but aren't we, the community to decide and voice our opinions out? I would agree the noob questions/statements need to be rubbed off from the thread but I feel the manner of erasing certain posts and thread has gone a bit---overboard and I feel this thread would meet it's match soon. Again, I mean no disrespect to the fine moderators who have done their job properly. I just feel someone had to state this out.
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I am taking actions based on reports entered by the community members here. Since I do not own a Galaxy SL I am not a member of any of the factions here.
Misledz said:
And why? A small share, I was told recently I had been featured on XDA and I didn't even know it (GTab 10.1) so I decided to Google myself, upon doing so, I had seen my threads been offlinked, copy pasted from the GT-i9003 section into other forums, usually I'd ignore this but I noticed most of them are scared to ask or post because of the strict moderation that goes around that too on a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section. Most of them require the tutorial guide in order to move forward to dhiru's ROM because everyone knows if you screw up while flashing a firmware, you end up having a screwed phone not worth having a "blessing" on. I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
This has just been going on for a while, and I feel I needed to say this, perhaps most of the community would agree with me on this.
Good job once again to the moderators. With all due respect.
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People scared to ask questions? Really? That would be news based on the number of questions that keep getting asked.
Can you give specific examples of your threads which have been copied to other device forums please?
As far as thread cleaning/deleting posts, I can promise that I have not deleted one single bit of "crucial" information.
I have to go for now, but I will continue this later. I want to work with you guys, but I also am required to do certain things for reasons you are not aware of. I am happy to explain them wherever possible.
Thank you,
mf2112
Misledz said:
@matapollos that's going as my status for the day ! And that has so much truth to it, I've been watching the HB thread ever since it started. Seen the people who took the initiative to help him but a developer is only as strong as the community that favors him, If anything HB should have kept his word, the community had kept theirs on the phone. It just feels---wrong? Yes you will help and answer but there's a saying in english, All bark and no bite. Actions should match what was preached.
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Well said Misledz.
My own recognize developer list have only one name still, trying to get it more, however, they still yet to be right.
i have once donate a SL to a XDA member(or Developer?), and now he's still not yet recognized by public (or XDA?) what is going on here at SL forum?
for the MOD, I think they are fair enough, rules is rules, it mean to be follow, but...still...... anyone missing Jay here ?:victory:
Another trend I've noticed, is the rise of the "unofficial" moderators.
People "spamming" on almost every post.
Best example would be a newbie on XDA asking for something like an ETA, and the damn post has 20+ replies saying Donot Ask for ETAs.
This was just an example.
I see that there are more of such posts, than that of regular queries.
This makes checking threads sometimes very much irritating. Opening a thread only to find out just another reply moderating previous posts.
Misledz said:
More or less when we placed our expectations on HB we had hoped there would be more of a response than ignorance. Instead the posts got deleted, thread got cleaned and such.
@krazzy Wow I didn't think id' see you here too
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brother i have always visit i9003 section when i visit xda
moderation shd be strict. so as to keep only usefull n informative posts. else we all will be lost in huge amt of posts.
SaeberTooth4U said:
moderation shd be strict. so as to keep only usefull n informative posts. else we all will be lost in huge amt of posts.
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I have to agree with you.
This forum is for developers. Testers and noobs are here as visitors and if they are looking around for information, they should search very hard before distracting the major contributors. Testing helps the devs, but harassment doesn't. Testing doesn't mean complaining about battery life. That is what spoiled children do. Thinking about yourself. People who have questions will always find the answer to their questions by searching. If there is no answer anywhere to be found (extremely rare), start a new thread in the General Section. It's simple.
I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. But I know my place and just say what's necessary and search very very hard before asking a question. At least I try. I think about the developers that use this forum to work on phones and don't appreciate it when someone who obviously has no interest in development comes and makes demands as though a ROM or a MOD or any feature or bug is the responsibility of these devs.
I find it crazy when I see non-devs here with hundreds of posts.
It would make much more sense for everyone to keep quiet and read. No need to comment on every thread you go through. ESPECIALLY if you're not developing or solving a problem.
samisax said:
I have to agree with you.
This forum is for developers. Testers and noobs are here as visitors and if they are looking around for information.
I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. But I know my place and just say what's necessary and search very very hard before asking a question. At least I try. I think about the developers that use this forum to work on phones and don't appreciate it when someone who obviously has no interest in development comes and makes demands as though a ROM or a MOD or any feature or bug is the responsibility of these devs.
I find it crazy when I see non-devs here with hundreds of posts.
It would make much more sense for everyone to keep quiet and read. No need to comment on every thread you go through. ESPECIALLY if you're not developing or solving a problem.
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samisax, you have my sympathy! You have written exactly what I was thinking. It annoys me when I see people demanding things to developers, as if they were their employers...
At least in this thread I've realised there's still people with good manners that knows when they may ask for something from others or not.
I'm really really relieved. Thank you guys
problem
OK, home from work now. First, I am not ever going to infract or punish someone for expressing their honest opinion, as long as it is done in a civil fashion, so I definitely appreciate a good discussion.
To respond to this thread in a general fashion...I see vague complaints over a great many forums about mods doing this or that, or not doing this or that, but rarely any specific instances. We do have a thread in this forum: Moderators to assist should anyone want to bring up specific instances of problems. That means links so we can go there and fix the problems. Please feel free to use that thread. Please feel free to (continue to) use the report button as several dozen of you already have. I have several pages full of reports from this forum. Please feel free to PM me. Some of you have done this, I have received PMs from a number of members with requested actions of me. People have posted requests in the thread above as well. In fact that is really where this thread should have gone, but you don't really have specific examples, so ok.
So people here are reporting things which I am taking actions per the guidelines I have been issued by the Moderator Committee. "Strict" is all relative. I thought I had been strict but fair so far. According to other mods, including jayharper08, I have been too lenient. I am not sure how much "modding" the Galaxy users here want but I can state that the answer is not leaning towards "lenient" based on the number and types of reports I am getting. If people here didn't care, they wouldn't bother to report thread after thread, post after post.
Without any specific examples I can't really give you specific answers as to why I took whatever action I did, but I can tell you that my motivations for working many many MANY hours on XDA that have led to being a moderator were definitely not to close or move threads or posts from other users in other forums I had no real time or interest for given that I never owned or ever will own any of them, or to have to explain repeatedly that it is NOT OK to distribute paid applications here on XDA as this is a community of developers, some of which do make their living from writing software, and that piracy is stealing in exactly the same fashion as if it had been lifted off the store shelf and walked out with it, or to reluctantly hand out infractions to users after PMs and warnings proved not to be sufficient. We don't like to do this. Not one mod I have talked to enjoys having to discipline members, but the alternative is far worse. We are not going to let XDA go downhill like many other sites have done. There are community rules and the rules will be followed, for the benefit of all in the community.
Now, to answer this thread with a very specific example which in all honesty seems to the the *real* issue underlying most other issues in this forum.
Hillbeast.
First, can someone point me to a thread or something written down which says exactly what hillbeast was supposed to do and when? I don't want to prejudge the situation, but all I know so far is that several phones were purchased with pooled monies, one of which went to hillbeast, one went to dhiru (I think, not sure on this one), and one went to another (unrecognized?) dev that I can''t recall the name of who seems to have skipped. If there is something written down that gives me very clear guidelines on what was given and what was expected it would be very helpful here, instead of vague complaints and ETA demands, which frankly I did erase without a second thought.
I see several posts here in this thread concerned that I might have erased something important. I promise to every one of you that I deleted nothing that would remotely qualify as "important" or more to the point "relevant" to a dev thread. If there was anything even slightly technical or related in those posts, I would keep it and erase only the unrelated parts. I deleted the initial offending posts which were reported, then I removed the followup piling on posts, some of which went overboard and were also reported. When arguments start, both sides posts are going to be deleted. No one is more right from all evidence I have seen so far. Since I do not own this device and am not in any of the factions here, I am not taking any sides, but I will defend any members from unwarranted attacks or unsubstantiated claims.
I am not sure how many people here have even the faintest understanding of how real development works. Too many people I think have a completely wrong understanding based on ROMs they are seeing from "devs" that are nothing more than zip jockeys. Frankly, I doubt there is one person in 10,000 here on XDA that can really understand what hillbeast is trying to do. Without benefit of assistance from the manufacturer.
In fact, the manufacturer doesn't even want people doing this at all since it might cause them not buy the newest model phone.
So what I need here is the contract that was agreed to by hillbeast and the other devs and the members here. I can't go by anything vague or that isn't stipulated by 100% of the involved parties. I wasn't here when this deal was set up, but I promise to carefully evaluate everything and I will act fairly.
Thank you,
mf2112
EDIT: To be clear, I am not saying I am going to take an action here. My gut feeling as someone who has worked around software development for more than 10 years is that many of you guys are simply being too impatient. Especially given that hillbeast (despite the irony of his username ) is not an employee of anyone here to the best of my knowledge.
As far as how people want me to mod...well, I am not jayharper08 so I am not going to do things like he did. I can tell you that I don't want to run the forum. I don't want to go through all the threads and posts and find "modly" things to do in my not-so-spare time. When people report things then I come check it out and figure out what to do. Since people here report a lot, I am here more often, which is fine with me but some people may not appreciate. BTW, your thread was not reported, I found it on my own. :victory:
The above being said, I am human and I can make mistakes. If anyone has an issue then talk to me. If I did something wrong I will correct it. If you disagree with something I have done then let me know why (civilly) and I will explain to the best of my ability. You have no reason to fear talking to me in public or private. I became a mod to help people here, not harm them.
Mf2112,
Firstly I would like to thank you for taking the time to sit and read through this and place your points on the table along with your opinions. In a way the thread wasn't that hard to find (Considering the Triangle and the word "Moderator" brings people to see what's being said, pretty nifty tactic I learned over at the GNexus side LOL) as much as I would like to press thanks, the ever so wonderful system has permitted me from my daily 8 limit. And I would do so because this was more or less the response I least expected, in the sense, it's a good response, infact an unbiased one but touches all areas, like a pedophile checking his new victim.
Before I start this, I have no ill intention towards HB, but the whole ETA in the HB thread turned sour only because the agreement between developer (I would hold my word on the developer part) and community was made in exchange. Yes his help was sought out because we had believed that XDA is a place where people share their expertise. Do what is agreed upon (with a fair deal ofcourse) and we don't place any high expectations or hopes in such. But when it's been half a year, that's when things start to roll considering with each passing month, another flagship Class A/B phone get's launched, which is the initial reason why the ETA's went up in flames (But ofcourse this only applies to who ACTUALLY can do something with it). I would have agreed if HB had stated what he lacked, and why he was unable to provide so, he had done initially in the beginning, but when it was more of "Speak first, we listen, then show us what you have done" he turned all silent, which turned tides.
There were 4 phones donated, DoomLord, Fuss132, dhiru, codeworkx. Each of them presented something within a short time of the device they were given, I mean such is the expectation isn't it? I know pooling isn't a big deal considering its $5-$10 each person, but if the community was aware that there were going to be no results that would emerge then they would have donated to XDA instead and gotten a pretty gold star beside their name. I don't know if I'm being too emotional over $5-$10's, but when you climb up that harsh economy ladder from a third world country like most of us do, you suddenly get that feel of how important/valuable $1 is. (Consider the fact that some would find people crazy to spend over RS/PHP 20k over a phone where that would pay up for 1 semester of a College student)
I completely agree however of the mindless babble of those who submit no contribution but have high # of posts. It's insane. But with XDA having 5+ million online user's daily, It's hard to determine who helps and who doesn't. Which is why I've mentioned you have done a splendid job in clean sweeping the arena. Keep up the great work and sorry if this has gone a bit indepth.
HELLO! Long time member here
Now its time for me to have a bit of a rant! Over the last few years, this site/forums, have gone downhill, the reason being....? Ignoring The rules and not doing things for yourselves!
I am not a mod, or admin, but I expect I speak on behalf of a large number of users/rom devs, when you see the same posts explaining the same thing again and again!
Such Enjoyable posts such as 'can I use xposed on this'. 'whats the battery like on this thing - even though the rom has just been released!!! whens the new update coming, and why not for my model?????
You see, I could never ever share a rom on here (I have made loads for myself, including a few for note 3), because of a small number of users WHO CANT POST in the right section, READ Q&A forum, or MOAN because they have bricked their handset because they have not read things properly!
XDA is a amazing site, and I have killed and revived hundreds of handsets, but people think its their god given right to expect the dev etc to hold their hands and go through every step of the flashing of roms, its a case of trial and error, the roms here are not always 100% stable, but people expect it to be! people expect the latest firmware, bits and bobs to be added all the time, the devs have real lifes, families, and jobs......they are doing you a favour....free!!
What I am saying is, please respect the devs, the forum mods, and post in correct sections!!! use search.....or a little site called google.......any of you can inbox me with any problems you have
Anyway I LOVE YOU ALL
Couldn't have said it better. I know several developers who have mostly migrated to other forums due, in large part, to the things you mentioned.
I too have put together a number of ROMs, full themes, and apps, the majority of which I've either kept for personal use, or shared only with select individuals, because it's almost become a burden to publicly release them here. Alliance has an unofficial rule where any time someone asks about an update, we postpone releasing one, but even that doesn't stop the incessant stream of repeated questions that we get (the majority of which are already answered in the OP).
A lot of the members here don't seem to understand that this is, first and foremost, a developers site, and they act as if they're entitled to something or that the devs somehow owe them something. I've never understood that mindset; Whenever I've wanted to modify something, in any way, I've put in the time (sometimes years) needed to learn how to do it myself, and if I ever got stuck, have sought guidance from more knowledgable people. That doesn't seem to happen much any more.
XDA has gone through some major changes, and has grown almost exponentially in the 9 years that I've been here, and I couldn't be happier for its' success, but some things have certainly, and unfortunately, been lost along the way.
There is also the issue of people who steal others work. The number of devs I have seen leave xda because of that is quite high. It is not ok and it is against the rules for people to do it but they still do. Once the devs who put the time in to create the mods leave nothing new happens because no one knows how to do anything without copy and paste or even have their own original ideas.
Same old same old since XDA moved from a developers forum to a forum for those that don't know and refuse to read/ learn .
I gave up years ago and try to ignore the idiot posts .
@JJEgan: You really gave up, years ago, with that post count?
Anyway, the problem is newcomers. They don't search, they don't read, but their demands are high all the same, that's the most saddening part I think.
All the ROM/ Kernel topics should have a separate Q&A section. But at the same time I think its needed to be mentioned that OP (Original Post) should contain all the needed informations too, sometimes they don't!
Yes is the answer to first question .
Only time i use the forums is nowadays for a new rom .
I've been visiting xda, as a lurker, for years (since about '07-'08) and only created an account a couple of years ago. (Hence the low/non-existant post count.) I may not have ever released any of my own fiddlings for my phone(s), but I have borrowed some of the knowledge from the fine developers and learned more about my phone(s). It also annoys the hell outta me to see so many people refusing to learn about the equipment they use everyday and expect to have people, busting their asses (on their own time & dime), just bow down and cater to the weak-minded and lazy masses. It's sad... If someone's too lazy to do the homework before they go flash happy, then I feel they deserve the bricks. I have nothing but mad respect for the devs who put their work out there, regardless of quality! To play off of what Morningstar said, I think it's great that there's a bit of a slap on the hand, from the devs, of the disrespectful, over-eager ones who get too grabby-- command respect wherever you can! HAHAHA!
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
@DSA thats a great name from the past! I used to love your Blackbox roms from a couple years back, remember it used to amazing, and can remember too, that you closed your thread due to the same sort of thing.....people posting non development stuff.......I managed to sell a old s4 about 8 months back that had your rom on it (the bloke preferred a 4.4.2 rom)
DEV section should be for DEVs ONLY. There should be a category in which you have to be invited to be able to post there. Rest must go to Q/A section IMO. I am mod myself, not of a such big forum like XDA, but from ReactOS forums. Even there you have stupid children starting a rant with their first post or more often just post a stupid question answered two posts above! Same like here, just not that many ppl flooding you ^^ I started to give away free warnings and bans to minimize the negative impact we have there after any public booth we had somewhere etc. Telling ppl not to do X and Y and what are they doing? X AND Y OF COURSE! You write it in the first post in RED AND CAPS LOCK and ppl still don't read it. Then they show up to rant that their PC is dead, hamster is pregnant, phone fell into the fish tank and whatever else you might be the evil guy for. I completely second AND support that opinion of the OP.
In my opinion only Devs, Mods and Senior Members (maybe with some criteria, ex. by registration date and/or by number thanks) should be able to post on the Development section.
I would assume that most Senior Members with several years of registration, and with at least 50 thanks would know the forum rules.
Closing the Dev section only to Devs would bring very little input and feedback.
pacc said:
In my opinion only Devs, Mods and Senior Members (maybe with some criteria, ex. by registration date and/or by number thanks) should be able to post on the Development section.
I would assume that most Senior Members with several years of registration, and with at least 50 thanks would know the forum rules.
Closing the Dev section only to Devs would bring very little input and feedback.
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Thats what the Q/A is for.
emuandco said:
Thats what the Q/A is for.
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You're right, but many senior members know programming and their contribution to development would be lost in the extensive list of Q/A.
Hopefully XDA will figure something out.
I am of the opposite opinion.
Ten years ago you asked a question you got a reply. Simple and practical.
Now you have to put up with a stream of people moaning and lamenting the nerve of someone daring to ask a question that has been asked before, usually because the op has not been updated or has such useful instructions as:
Installation instructions:
1. Install
So now instead of having a simple question and answer we just have the questions and the moaners; people who conveniently forget that they had their own questions earlier and act instead as guardians of some sacred knowledge which you must trawl through a several thousand page long thread (or three or four separate threads) before being worthy to dare ask a question.
My two cents.
1. That's what the search function is for. There's a rule, search first, ask questions later. I mean if not found.
2. There's also the attitude problem with people being entitled to anything, as if they are doing a favor for using the roms. No doubt, bugs can only be found if enough people are using it, and they are beta testing it this way for the developers, but still the work here is done by the developers.
3. But this is true until a developer starts accepting donations. I believe while somebody is doing in his free time, on his own dime, he/she can decide what questions to address. But after receiving the first donation at least the real documented bugs should all be answered at least with an "I'm looking into it".
4. OP should grant moderator rights for his/her topic, and purge irrelevant stuff.
My 2c.
istperson said:
1. That's what the search function is for. There's a rule, search first, ask questions later. I mean if not found.
2. There's also the attitude problem with people being entitled to anything, as if they are doing a favor for using the roms. No doubt, bugs can only be found if enough people are using it, and they are beta testing it this way for the developers, but still the work here is done by the developers.
3. But this is true until a developer starts accepting donations. I believe while somebody is doing in his free time, on his own dime, he/she can decide what questions to address. But after receiving the first donation at least the real documented bugs should all be answered at least with an "I'm looking into it".
4. OP should grant moderator rights for his/her topic, and purge irrelevant stuff.
My 2c.
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I wholeheartedly agree with your numbers 1,2, and 4. I take exception with number 3 though. The donation is a thank you for what the person has done. Like tipping a waiter at a restaurant ... better job done .. better tip. But that is done at the end. Appreciation for a job well done. Maybe next trip you get really good service ... maybe you get someone else. My point is that making the donation doesn't give anyone the right to "expect" more. Most donations are minimal .. very nice to receive ... but normally small. So if you send someone $5 and expect more, you are putting a very small value on their time.
The majority of crap that clogs the threads is people not searching as stated previously. It's obvious that some people are just too lazy or have come to expect to be hand fed the information. They even state in the post thing like "too many post to look at" and "just don't have the time to look" ( for themselves). If I search and find the answer for them, I usually put in my post a link to the post with the answer as well as the amount of time I spent searching (usually less than a minute). This normally brings out the hatred in people, but I really don't care.
This thread has surprised me in that it hasn't turned into a battleground yet. Nice that opinions can flow and discussions can happen without the need for a mod to calm the situation. We all know it won't change anything on xda .. it is what it is. It has changed a lot since I started a few years ago. I just tend to stay in threads that are suited to my nature and with people with sense of humor like mine. The others that I follow that are not like that, I tend to remain silent(ish).
Some things like total disrespect for someones work really set me off. I have seen people tell other themers that their work is ugly or tell them how it should look. I look at their profile and they have produced nothing here. Multiple threads started about help me this and that, and request for things to be done. It just chaps my ass. But it is what it is. Anyway ... Rant over ... thanks OP for the thread.
Bubba said:
I wholeheartedly agree with your numbers 1,2, and 4. I take exception with number 3 though. The donation is a thank you for what the person has done. Like tipping a waiter at a restaurant ... better job done .. better tip. But that is done at the end. Appreciation for a job well done. Maybe next trip you get really good service ... maybe you get someone else. My point is that making the donation doesn't give anyone the right to "expect" more. Most donations are minimal .. very nice to receive ... but normally small. So if you send someone $5 and expect more, you are putting a very small value on their time.
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No you're right, I agree, it's not the value of the work just saying it's appreciated.
What I was trying to say was that if being correct only those will accept donations who are really determined to have a relatively complete rom made, and by complete I mean compared to what is announced in the OP. And if people appreciate it then at least every well documented bug report would be nice if it was acknowledged. Just to show that this is really a contribution to the development if someone gives links to logcats, and gives steps to reproduction. And by no means what is very frequent here: "This sucks, fix it!!!!!!!111111One"
istperson said:
3. But this is true until a developer starts accepting donations. I believe while somebody is doing in his free time, on his own dime, he/she can decide what questions to address. But after receiving the first donation at least the real documented bugs should all be answered at least with an "I'm looking into it".
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Your last post cleared things up a bit, and I think I get your point, but I still completely disagree with this statement.
Every developer I know here (including myself), has a 'real' job, and does development work solely as a hobby in their spare time. A donation is just that. it's not solicited or expected, it's simply a way of showing appreciation and thanking a dev for the work that they've done.
Personally, the things that I've shared here publicly and/or are included in others' releases are the product of several hundred hours (and probably more than that) of work. I've received a few donations, but the total sum doesn't even amount to one full day's pay at my 'real' job, so I would say everything I do is on 'my time' and 'my dime'.
Morningstar said:
Your last post cleared things up a bit, and I think I get your point, but I still completely disagree with this statement.
Every developer I know here (including myself), has a 'real' job, and does development work solely as a hobby in their spare time. A donation is just that. it's not solicited or expected, it's simply a way of showing appreciation and thanking a dev for the work that they've done.
Personally, the things that I've shared here publicly and/or are included in others' releases are the product of several hundred hours (and probably more than that) of work. I've received a few donations, but the total sum doesn't even amount to one full day's pay at my 'real' job, so I would say everything I do is on 'my time' and 'my dime'.
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100 percent agreed. I have spent thousands of hours on my personal theme for alliance that i freely share. Same for apps that I also share. I have received only a couple of donations. Not that I care. But they are nice. I appreciate the thanks clicked just as much.
But again the point is ... It's a thank you ... not a purchase with a promise. Knowing the people that @Morningstar and myself know through this hobby is (to me) humbling. The average user could never begin to comprehend the time and effort ... and dedication ... maybe even some OCDC ... that goes into building or theming a rom or app.
It IS hard work and I am always grateful to the amazing helpful members who make coming here enjoyable and who vastly outnumber the vocal whiny minority of spoiled douches.
My 2c ?
Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk
Welcome to the new world,Facebook and the deliberate dumbing down of the masses.. Its no accident that the general public aren't as bright as they were,ask any teacher how new age teaching just isn't as good as the old ways.
I can see and share your frustrations but there a lot of factors
young people have more disposable income I see 12yr olds with S6s and other high end phones
young people have been spoilt and are treated like little prince/princesses because the parents are so busy earning a living they can't give them time so spoil them or try to buy their love creating needy lazy demanding kids
the general assumption is that young people are internet savvy but this is far from the truth, I see classes of kids every day in the high school years who still don't realise that you can type an address into a web browser they do a search for the same site every day and then click the link. If google was shut down the world would end for a lot of people
samsung have released so many different models and variants which wasn't the case in the past so people have a lot more issues world wide
upgrading custom roms were probably less buggy than ported roms which are released now as betas, maybe they shouldn't be? it seems to be a bit much too ask for many to comprehend
xda's popularity and some people over eagerness to help beginners encourages too many people without enough skills to attempt highly risky things
there are a lot more postings of high end roms and later versions of android onto older hardware so many more issues than in the past where it was more cosmetic adjustments and feature add ons
there are a lot more asian developers so there are a lot of roms that are released and have to be made international (more issues)
a lot of the roms threads are terrible now possibly due to different cultures again
compare note2 threads with note3 threads,note 2 were usually logical with all files in OP are now a lot of note 3 threads are a mess with sometimes note3 base note4 base s6 base and note 5 in same thread and questions and fixes are just donated randomly all through the thread by anyone rather than dev only.
I would consider myself an experienced xda lurker but following just a note 3 means trying to keep on top of many different threads to just make sense out of peoples cross thread posts its very time consuming
a lot of thread starters need to be a lot more organised in the OP and control their threads more, removing comments that are about other roms etc,I think because they know and follow all the other threads as well as there own they assume everyone reading is doing the same. I do feel sorry for someone blindly trying to get started now but a well controlled thread would make huge difference,list known bugs themselves in the OP,
Some developers might be better to hand their thread over to someone enthusiastic to control the thread on their behalf to get back to the great examples set by omega,bobcat ,phoenix ,resurrection dr keten
there are some fantastically helpful and nice people on these forums and some incredibly bright ones but society is what it is
personally I blame Facebook
Hi there new userThis website isn't familiar with you, is it? Well let me introduce it to you my little fellow, this is xda-developpers.com, a forum where -previously android enthusiasts, now smartphone enthusiasts- share content, ask questions, give advices and answers, in order to customize our phone expirience. XDA has been a home for small project before they became very successful, one of the best examples is @zx2c4 's WireGuard, that has been integrated into the linux kernel now and will be available natively in Android 12 (source). zx2c4 has been developing this project in its early days for Android and ROM integration here at XDA. All of that to say, XDA is great, because of the community, and also the Moderation team that work their asses off to maintain XDA as spam free as possible. (am a mod now lol)
You know, I had the feeling that you'd come here first and start frenetically posting about how you feel, but there are some RULES (ta da) that you'll have to follow before posting about why you only buy product red iPhones in a 100 lines post. Here are some useful links to learn how to properly use and post on XDA.
Before reading them tho, finish this post first (there's a surprise down there),and go check out this one minute video to understand what xda is all about.
Read tha RuleS
You know the rules, and so do I
Welcome to XDA
you can use the report button, it's not snitching, it's asking for help
how to properly name and write a post
Your "career" as XDA forum user
The rest of the link are here
Now that I got your attention with the surprise thing, keep reading. I perfectly know that you will click on the first link and read half of it, because those are really long reads, but trust me it's worth it in the end. I'll make a summary of what you absolutely need to know before doing anything:
1-Questions about iPhones belongs here, xda has to keep the forum organised, every sections has a title that needs to be respected, for example "Android Q'n'A" is for Q'n'A related to ANDROID, do not post pictures of di.. I mean dogs, or questions about iPhones or about your Roomba not working. This is the most common problem with newbies on XDA. If you post properly, you won't get bashed by experimented users.
2-Press that frickin thank button
each time someone helps you, it's very important (you can give 8 thanks per day)unlimited now
3-Don't discuss anything else than android, in android forums. This means NO POLITICAL DISCUTION
3bis-You can't sell anything on XDA, and for paid software, there are strict rules before promoting them on XDA. Read THIS
4-You need at least to read the rules, I know this isn't funny and stuff, but you have to. And follow the rules! Otherwise you'll feel how hard the ban hammer in the hands of a powerful user (@T.C.Stockdale, @coal686, @xanthrax, and much more fearless hammer wielders)
5-You can't change your username once you chose it, so choose wisely (also you can ask @MikeChannon through PMs to change it, so please stop asking)
6-Be nice, even if some users are kinda bashing you because you're a n00b, and don't worry, if you read this you won't be a n00b anymore, but a new user, and I'll have a talk with these users after that (it's the "Quick message for you fellow "old" XDA users" in the title)
7-Enjoy the forums, there's so much to learn here! Although it's android only for the moment, new developers from the iPhone community will come (hopefully) and share content with you, so you can enjoy
Here is the surprise: ?, you deserved it, now you're a little more aware of what you're doing
Now for experimented iPhone users, hello there !You may know already everything I've said above because I guess you're coming from another forum to check if xda is just garbage or if it's great, and since you're experimented, you've had the curiosity to read all of this until there. Well let me tell you things that you'll be interested in. First XDA is kind of an old forum (if you want the full story: part 1, part 2). This interface isn't 2020, in fact it's has been designed and applied in 2015 (not so recently lol). And this forum uses vBulletin right now. So if you know what I'm talking about, it sounds like xda is outdated, but don't worry, it's now time for Xenforo and XDA 2020 interface (check this out). You're the core of the iPhone community, and you know it. As you make mods, find jailbreak exploits and other cool stuff, you allow other users to enjoy for free (most of the time lol) your content. XDA is all about sharing knowledge, content, etc... and has a huge community, so your work will be taken to a whole new dimension since you'll now be able to be directly in touch with a huge part of the community. I'm sure that you had your own favourite forum, but try out xda, it can only better the experience, because if YOU come, other developers will too, and make iPhone and Android Developers cooperate to make, who knows, one of the greatest piece of software ever created. I can't wait to see what is going to come out of this!
Now, a message to all fellow "before iPhone forums" XDA users:If you're really old, you may remember this video, I got a flashback when seeing this forum opened lol.
This is crazy, I'd never have thought XDA would open iPhone forums, yet they did.
I use both Android and iOS, and to be honest, I've tried iOS, and it's way less "featureful" than Android, the design language is appealing, but having a phone with which you can't even access internal storage is kind of a joke to me.
But each of us have our own opinions, right ?
The thing that'll really change here is the community. I think that the Portal team and XDA admins thought this decision through for a long time. Because since XDA is well known around tech enthusiasts (Android or Apple), Apple enthusiasts will eventually popularize XDA among the more unexperimented iOS users seeking for a way to have [MOD INFINITE VBUCKS FORTNITE LEGIT 1000% WORKING read the description], and that's what I wanted to talk about.
More seriously, it'll bring some of the very experimented users that will eventually provide this forum with very useful guides and Mods, but it will also bring A LOT of newbies. XDA was also known in the past for n00b bashing Android beginners, and now it's the Apple ones...
I know that sometimes it's hard to hear the same questions over and over again and not being infuriated and upset, but I'll ask you, please, to don't bash the crap out of iPhone newbies, if they become developers who knows how they'll improve our experience with maybe cross-plateform development. I know what I say isn't something that you didn't heard before, but please be patient with them, I mean they're not so weak that they're scared by the first critic that hits them, but if we can keep this clean and have a good relationship with them, maybe our two communities will finally end this war that has lasted for eons before us.
Well thank you for reading this until the end, you're very brave. My teachers always said I couldn't be concise when saying something, well they were damn right. Hope you have a good day.
Edit #1: Typos, a lot of them !
Edit #2: Updating color for dark mode user of XDA 2021, the look changed, the rules are the same !
Edit #3: Removing cringy poll
Edit #4: Updating some link here and there
Raiz said:
4-You need at least to read the rules, I know this isn't funny and stuff, but you have to. And follow the rules! Otherwise you'll feel how hard the ban hammer in the hands of a powerful user (@T.C.Stockdale, @coal686, @xanthrax, and much more fearless hammer wielders)
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Thank you for mentioning me with these other two great guys. I prefer not to use the ban hammer; the carrot is better than the stick.
Welcome iPhone users! We hope we can get some good iPhone discussion and development going on here. :good:
On behalf of the portal team and the wider leadership team behind XDA as a whole, thanks for this message! It sums up everything really well and we're excited to see how these iPhone forums go.
If anyone has questions about the iPhone 12, feel free to ask (I am using one right now)!
I am now using the iPhone 12 pro max as my main phone and something said go check out xda. Glad to know there’s somewhat of an iphone section. I’m sure I’m not the only one that realized there’s an iPhone developers site but it’s dead.
aarongotgame said:
I am now using the iPhone 12 pro max as my main phone and something said go check out xda. Glad to know there’s somewhat of an iphone section. I’m sure I’m not the only one that realized there’s an iPhone developers site but it’s dead.
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Are you talking about that oooold website ?
http://iphone-developers.com/
It was the first attempt to make an iPhone forum.
* Nostalgic music playing in the background*
There are still some relevant pieces of infos there.
Check out this section for basic "what is jailbreak" guides http://iphone-developers.com/page/iphone-jailbreak-guides-resources/
And this one for instant nostalgia:
http://iphone-developers.com/index.php/app-reviews/
Raiz said:
Are you talking about that oooold website ?
http://iphone-developers.com/
It was the first attempt to make an iPhone forum.
* Nostalgic music playing in the background*
There are still some relevant pieces of infos there.
Check out this section for basic "what is jailbreak" guides http://iphone-developers.com/page/iphone-jailbreak-guides-resources/
And this one for instant nostalgia:
http://iphone-developers.com/index.php/app-reviews/
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Click to collapse
Yes lol I was like Wow. I went to the jailbreak wizard. That was nice that an attempt was made to even start a full independent developers site.
@Raiz Rules link in op is old
old: https://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81
new: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/xda-developers-forum-rules.4200559/