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Dissatisfied with htc- not enough 3g radios

Like many of you, I have been a loyal HTC customer since 2004 when I bought my first HTC product. I have been buying at least one new HTC product each year since then. However, beginning two or so year ago, HTC stopped selling unlocked phones with 3G Radios which worked in Europe and the U.S.
For example, a few years ago when the HTC TyTN came out, we U.S. customers could pay a bit of a premium and buy an unlocked HTC TyTN which had 3G radios which worked in the U.S. and Europe before the the HTC TyTN variant (Cingular 8525) officially came to the U.S. many months later. The same was true of the HTC TyTN II (AT&T Tilt or 8925).
Beginning with the HTC Rafael (AT&T Fuze) a couple years ago, the unlocked phones offered directly from HTC had no 3G radios for the U.S. Next, the HTC HD Blackstone and then the HTC Touch Pro 2 were offered unlocked, but without radios that could work on U.S. 3G networks.
This makes me very angry for several reasons. First, AT&T is undoubtedly the best GSM carrier stateside in terms of 3G coverage. (Hopefully T-Mobile will catch up someday). All U.S. customers (if they want 3G) have to wait for months to get the hot stuff. By the time the new device arrives, it's old news and out of date (the HTC Tilt 2 for example). AT&T will undoubtedly receive all the good stuff last because of its exclusivity with the I-Phone which makes all the other manufacturers want to release their new stuff elsewhere first. (I don't blame them for this.).
Secondly, AT&T's branding is absolutely atrocious. I'd like to get my hands on the idiot at AT&T who keeps screwing up perfectly good QWERTY keyboards with AT&T idiotic silver keys and insane layouts. The silver wears off and makes the keys hard to see in bright light. The layout is insane because they change the masterful HTC layouts and have even changed patters from their previous keyboards. The caps and function keys have been switched. Whoever is in charge of keyboard layout should be fired and not allowed to work in the industry again.
Business people who live in Europe and travel to the U.S. should be equally upset. Their expensive unlocked HTC products won't pick up a U.S. 3G signal.
Am I the only one who doesn't like this trend? I think not. We all need to band together and push HTC to putting a bunch of 3G radios in its products. Personally, I'd like to see some unlocked products which had the following 3G bands - 850/900/1700/1900/2100. Or what about 850/1700/1900/2100 so that it could be used on either AT&T or T-Mobile in the States and also in Europe? No, they cannot do that, the carriers would have to actually compete on quality of service and price rather than on what phone they have.
I suspect that the hardware is not a limitation. If it is the limitation, the manufacturers could make plug in modules that could go from one frequency set to another. I bet that the reason the radios are limited is due to the totally anti-competitive practices of the U.S. carriers.
This is total B.S. Every single HTC customer who travels between the U.S. and Europe should complain to HTC about this. Can we get some kind of joint letter, etc, going?
I'd be interested to hear all responses. I'm frankly fed up.

I'm personally pretty frustrated with this issue. AT&T really f*cks up their keyboards, and adds so much crap to their devices. I'd have thrown my Tilt and Tilt2 out the window if I hadn't learned about cooked ROMs. The keyboard is the absolute worst, though. Whoever at AT&T decides to ruin the otherwise great keyboards on the unlocked devices needs to be shot. And as you said, they decided to change the CAPS and FN key positions, after I already learned to type the opposite way for two years.
However, the antenna hardware is a limitation, in a sense. Meaning, you can't enable the US 3G bands on an unlocked device if they internal hardware antenna doesn't support it. In a podcast with Mobility Digest, one the legendary producers of HardSPL (Olipro) said that he's hacked radios and SPLs to allow all the frequencies to be utilized, and there was no signal, because the antenna hardware was not able to pick up the frequencies.
I think the real problem is the carriers. AT&T doesn't want people to buy an unlocked AT&T compatible phone that I can use without an expensive data plan that I'm locked into for 2 years. They also don't want me to buy a phone that also supports T-Mobile, so I can decide I don't like AT&T and take my phone with me, 3G coverage and all. So what AT&T does is pressure HTC not to release an unlocked version with their 3G frequencies supported. You're absolutely right when you say that quality of service should be the deciding factor in a network, not the phones they sell.

I went through and other frustrations with HTC and at one point I swore I'd never buy another HTC phone again. Then I went and bought an iPhone. Problem is, while the iPhone is a pretty sweet phone, AT&T is still the same scumbag company regardless of what phone you own and Apple is even WORSE than HTC. Unless you jailbreak the iPhone, you can't do anything interesting with it and you're totally at the mercy of Apple and AT&T as far as apps and what you can do with them. Take Slingplayer, for example. It works over wifi, period. I can get it to work over 3G if I jailbreak the phone and install a utility that makes it think it's using wifi, but how much longer is jailbreaking going to be available? Apple is going to great lengths to put an end to jailbreaking thought patching the exploits that allow it to work and legally by trying to make it illegal to jailbreak it. You can't use your own sounds for message notification, you can't customize the screen, you can't do a lot of things. So Apple and AT&T take a nice phone and totally f**k it up. And that's why I'm back to using an HTC phone. In the grand scheme of things, HTC and Microsoft are, by a wide margin, the lesser of the two evils when put against Apple and AT&T.

I understand that HTC has limited the hardware so that even with the right software, the phones won't pick up frequencies for which they don't have hardware or antennas. It cannot be a big deal.
Always the optimist, I believe that if everyone who used this forum wrote HTC a letter demanding that they start putting the hardware in their phones to operate on multiple 3G networks, something positive might happen.
HTC has it in their power to make and sell unlocked phones. Five years ago, you never saw HTC's name on the phones. It was always, Cingular, T-Mobile, Siemens, Audiovox, etc. Now you see HTC doing direct advertising in the U.S. However, I don't think it will have any effect. The ignorant masses are so I-Phone crazy. The name HTC doesn't mean thing to them.
Soon that I-Phone will be sold on all the U.S. networks. HTC could advertise directly and sell tons of phones if the phones were unlocked and worked on multiple 3G networks. This is one of the principles of "Net Neutrality". People hate to be tied to any certain network. This idea of locking the customer into a two year contact to get a stinking phone is outrageous. Sure, the initial outlay for the phone is small, but the carrier more than makes it back with high than needed data connection fees. In the end, the consumer gets the shaft.
If HTC offered an unlocked phones with U.S. & Europe 3G, I'd buy a new one every few months if the phones were any good. I want an HTC HD2 right now. I'd also like to try an HTC Hero in a GSM 3G too. But I'll have to wait several months and hope my carrier gets it.
Let's not sit back and let this sorry situation continue. Let's spread the word and go after the HTC and get the message out there.

I'm not Dissatisfied with htc in regards to travel. But I am Dissatisfied with htc in regards to OS Updates. I dont think that HTC should allow the updates to be Choosen by the carrieer.
Example: HTC Touch Pro some carrieers are updateing to 6.5 and others are not.. and what pisses me off is HTC Touch Pro was designed for 7 then MS decided to push the release date back. so ALL Touch Pros should get the 6.5 update and when 7 comes out they should also get the 7 update aswell..
I'm so tired of this.. yes XDA is a good place to go for the updates but I should not have to rely on xda to give me the update.
I sware my next phone is going to be the apple iPhone.

radio stacks as far as I see it is not something htc are making a range of
they make one for each device and then make newer versions to tweek or fix issues with the first ones
the newest should in general be applied
about 3g frequencies diff between usa and the rest of the world is hardware differences not radio stack differences

Rudegar said:
radio stacks as far as I see it is not something htc are making a range of
they make one for each device and then make newer versions to tweek or fix issues with the first ones
the newest should in general be applied
about 3g frequencies diff between usa and the rest of the world is hardware differences not radio stack differences
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The radio software is not the problem. It's the hardware. The hardware is deliberately made so that it only works on certain networks. I'm sure that cost and design are not the problem.

HTC needs to get back to devices that are true 3G 'world' phones! They have already lost a lot of the business folks!! Bring on the petition!!!

Agreed
I totally share your frustration. Similarly, due to heavy use I tend to buy a new phone yearly, Starting with Cingular 8150. I have many times purchased the same phone more than once, since no new devices were available when I needed a new phone. I am completely frustrated with being part of the largest consumer market in the world, yet only getting the latest technology more than a year after the rest of this planet. HTC has already lost an opportunity, by failing to fully and effectively advertise its products to Joe public, who was dazzled with the Iphone when it was first released. The fact remains that when we watched these Iphone adds, none of us was ever impressed with these features since they have been available to us for a long time with our HTC phones.
Rambo, I would like to encourage you to make a petition, as few of us are able to articulate this issue as well as you can and I would invite everyone to sign it, as a consumer block numbering in the thousands we can have our voices heard.

galaxys said:
HTC needs to get back to devices that are true 3G 'world' phones! They have already lost a lot of the business folks!! Bring on the petition!!!
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petition? just dont buy their garbage!
i havnt bought another htc since the htc tytn, that is like 4 years ago?
my previous phones, Imate 6150, Imate 9500, Eten X800, Sony X1, Acer F900, and now Acer neotouch S200, just preorder Acer Liquid, and soon Sony X10. what does all these phones have in common? they all works on ATT USA 3G! HTC can take their junks and stick it u know where! haha

netnerd said:
petition? just dont buy their garbage!
i havnt bought another htc since the htc tytn, that is like 4 years ago?
my previous phones, Imate 6150, Imate 9500, Eten X800, Sony X1, Acer F900, and now Acer neotouch S200, just preorder Acer Liquid, and soon Sony X10. what does all these phones have in common? they all works on ATT USA 3G! HTC can take their junks and stick it u know where! haha
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The only reason to petition HTC is because their hardware is not junk. It's very high quality stuff. They just need to make a few important changes.

dont be a pushy! haha
be a man!
it' like eatting at resturant, you are not allow to eat until everyone is finished eatting! that is just a insult to USA users! i wouldnt be begging them to let you eat at the same time as every1 else. i go elsewhere! haha

Thanks for using the Roman 'U' / sarcasm

3G Radios
yep, fully agree. I buy a new phone per year, due to heavy usage, they are generally ready for the scrap heap. I live in USA, but have operations in EU, and Japan / South Korea and I only want one phone and one number, and push around large amounts of data. I have to have 2100 mghz for voice and data in Japan and Korea, 850/1900 in USA and while in EU, need the 1800/900 and now 2100 for 3G access there. As I said, I only want one device and one number to keep updated and ready.
Big pain that HTC and Nokia have decided not to blend the 3G radios in the same way we have quad band GSM services. The extra frequencies on the radios are minor costs, which I would gladly pay.
ATT also keeps HTC from adding the 3.5 mm audio out jack, due to their exclusive deal with Apple on the Iphone, which is ridiculous. These cheap little dongles are a pain to use and keep up with, since I use my tilt 2 as an MP3 player while flying, I have to keep up with another piece. I strongly prefer one device to have to carry chargers for while traveling, so my phone is my MP3 player, email device, voice device, and mobile gps device. I want ONE DEVICE that works everywhere and not be dependant on AT&T to decide what and when I will get what.
HTC has to be tied to these carriers by some contract or agreement and is likely lacking marketing infastructure to take their phones to market globally and feel some ties to these major carriers. Otherwise it makes no sense to cripple these new devices as they are doing.
My 3 cents worth.
MWS

ms0529 said:
Big pain that HTC and Nokia have decided not to blend the 3G radios in the same way we have quad band GSM services. The extra frequencies on the radios are minor costs, which I would gladly pay.
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sony ericsson, and acer have no problems including USA 3g and EU 2100umts on their phone! retarded htc just dont want to! it like watching the new movie New Moon, you not allow to watch it until 6 months later! do u still get excited about New Moon 6 months later while every1 else already watched it? and Samsung is starting to wake up too! their lastest phone Omina II got USA 3g and 2100umts! (900/1900/2100umts)

netnerd said:
sony ericsson, and acer have no problems including USA 3g and EU 2100umts on their phone! retarded htc just dont want to! it like watching the new movie New Moon, you not allow to watch it until 6 months later! do u still get excited about New Moon 6 months later while every1 else already watched it? and Samsung is starting to wake up too! their lastest phone Omina II got USA 3g and 2100umts! (900/1900/2100umts)
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i second that..asus p835 also have us3g band

HTC exists to sell phones and make money.
If they wanted to sell phones that aren't carrier locked, it would have to be at full retail price ($500-600) and as a result MUCH less people would buy it. Plus HTC would have to open their own stores and such, or sell it only online.
The other option is to sell it through a carrier, but when you do that you're at the carriers mercy. And american carriers are scumbags when it comes to that.
For example, when the rest of the world uses the higher frequency that allows more users on the same tower and better speeds. America is still stuck with using ancient towers on ****ty frequencies...because carriers like AT&T are too cheap to upgrade it.
At the end of the day what do you think matters more to HTC (as a business), you deciding not to buy another phone from them (which would cost them very little, if anything, as it would be the carrier that sustains the loss) or them losing a multi-million dollar contract.

Razorfold said:
HTC exists to sell phones and make money.
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so is any other cell phones makers. sony, acer, asus, and now samsung (with their latest omini II got USA 3G and 2100umts. you bought ATT iphone, you also get 2100umts, i believe LG Expo with 1G cpu also has usa 3g and 2100umts!
but if you bought a HTC garbage phone, it either 900/2100 or USA 3G only, no 2100umts !
update: maybe "garbage" is not the correct word, it' OLD JUNKS! but the time it get to usa, phone is already 6months old! would you want to see New moon in 6 months while every1 is watching it now? would you rather eat after every1 is finished eatting? you just eatting the left-over!

netnerd said:
so is any other cell phones makers. sony, acer, asus, and now samsung (with their latest omini II got USA 3G and 2100umts. you bought ATT iphone, you also get 2100umts, i believe LG Expo with 1G cpu also has usa 3g and 2100umts!
but if you bought a HTC garbage phone, it either 900/2100 or USA 3G only, no 2100umts !
update: maybe "garbage" is not the correct word, it' OLD JUNKS! but the time it get to usa, phone is already 6months old! would you want to see New moon in 6 months while every1 is watching it now? would you rather eat after every1 is finished eatting? you just eatting the left-over!
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What don't you understand about it not having anything to do with HTC?
HTC signs contracts with t-mobile, AT&T, verizon, sprint etc, which allows them to rebrand the phone and sell it ON THEIR SCHEDULE with the features/radios THEY WANT. As almost everyone in America is locked onto 2 year contracts, most will be unwilling to buy to a new phone at full retail price until their contract is over. Hence carriers will wait to stock up on new phones till a time when the majority of their subscribers will be nearing their time to upgrade.
This CAN affect their other phones as well, just depends on whats written on those contracts.
AT&T doesn't want you buying a phone and switching over to t-mobile. So they lock out the t-mobile 3G frequencies.
T-mobile doesn't want you buying a phone and switching over to AT&T. So they lock out the AT&T frequencies.
Verizon/Sprint, don't want you buying a global phone and switching to T-mobile/AT&T, so they lock out both those bands.
If carriers aren't giving a certain phone the 2100 frequency, it's probably because they sell a similar more expensive phone that is "global ready" and want you to buy that instead if you travel. (Like for example, the ATT touch diamond doesn't have the 2100 band. The ATT Touch Pro 2 DOES)
Sony Ericcson, and Acer don't sell their phones in America through a carrier so naturally they don't have to lock out the radios and can do whatever the hell they want.
What is so hard to get about this?
Yes HTC can make a new contract, but I highly doubt carriers will sign it.
And btw I wouldn't want to see new moon, because it's gotta be the worst movie ever and nor am I a 13 year old girl with no common sense.

Razorfold said:
AT&T doesn't want you buying a phone and switching over to t-mobile. So they lock out the t-mobile 3G frequencies.
T-mobile doesn't want you buying a phone and switching over to AT&T. So they lock out the AT&T frequencies.
Verizon/Sprint, don't want you buying a global phone and switching to T-mobile/AT&T, so they lock out both those bands.
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i dont want a ATT or Tmobile branded htc old junk! i'm talking about HTC unlocked phone that they purposely left out USA 3G on it!

AT&T users, please suggest phone

I currently have the Touch Cruise. I like... I like it a lot actually but my job is starting to grow me out of this phone (memory size, etc...)
I look specifically for HTC phones because:
1: Winmo... it's very flexible and there's apps out there for pretty much everything
2: unbranded HTC means I pay $15 for the same internet connection as those who pay $30. save myself $15 a month x, say.... 24 months or even 36, that's big money saved.
so what are you sporting?

I would be rocking a tilt 2, but my blueangel decided to disappear on me right when the pure came out, so I ended up with that. My recommendation is definately the tilt 2 for winmo, although blueangel's are great except for lack of 3g and camera. found mine btw

Well I just bought a Tilt 2 (and this is my first ever smartphone) and so far I love it. I have played around with the iPhone...but I am an avid hater for anything MAC or connected to Steve Jobs. I am still learning the Tilt and really don't have any complaints.

Sucessors the N1?
I'm also on AT&T, and I'd like to know if anyone can suggest an upgrade from the Nexus One for AFEE&FEE's 3g bands. As the OP put it, I enjoy spending $15 for internet as opposed to $30+ for the same product.
A) I prefer Android over WinMo but will give it a chance if the device seems compelling (my last Winmo was the Fuze)...but I dont want to be deadended at 6.5. I've had two Symbian S60s, 4 WinMos, 2 N1s, and an iPhone 3g. Are the Maemo devices from Nokia any fun?
B) I don't "despise" Apple or the iPhone 4g/HD/whatev but the microsim and buggering on price will be a dealbreaker if I can't find/make an adapter to fit all my other phones. IMEI/rate plan swaps are a pain.
C) I don't care for the AT&T android offerings and see them as a BIG step down from the N1. I want something with specs/hardware like the Incredible or EVO 4g (I know about the 3g/4g network difference...I mean features). Hardware keyboard isn't a dealbreaker either way.
D) I prefer carrier unlocked phones. My last phone was a nokia N85, which sets the gold standard to me for feature phones. I have no qualms paying the premium for a quality, TOTALLY MINE device. I actually prefer it over being stuck in contract. Plus the more "exotic" the phone, the less likely I am to get an AT&T nastygram text saying "You're now on our gigabuck smartphone unlim plan, YOU'RE WELCOME, SUCKA"
In summation-
Feature set >Nexus One, on AT&T's 3g bands, cost isnt a factor up front. Thanks for reading, thank you very much for replying.

Go for the Nexus One. You can buy it from Google. It's better than the Iphone, and as free and customizable as WinMo, without the downside of, well, everything.
Not sayin' I hate WinMo, it's just I hate it. It's slow, it's crummy, it's ugly. Android is by far the most superior mobile operating system out there.
If you don't want to spend the money for the Nexus One, just wait a couple months till more Android phones come out. Just know AT&T is locking down alot of their carrier-sold Android phones. Search long enough on the webz and you'll find a way to break 'em free, but why do that when the Nexus One is just there for the taking?

autonomous-inc said:
Go for the Nexus One. You can buy it from Google. It's better than the Iphone, and as free and customizable as WinMo, without the downside of, well, everything.
Not sayin' I hate WinMo, it's just I hate it. It's slow, it's crummy, it's ugly. Android is by far the most superior mobile operating system out there.
If you don't want to spend the money for the Nexus One, just wait a couple months till more Android phones come out. Just know AT&T is locking down alot of their carrier-sold Android phones. Search long enough on the webz and you'll find a way to break 'em free, but why do that when the Nexus One is just there for the taking?
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I have 2 N1s. AWS (early adopter syndrome and now the 850 edition. I'm asking after the N1, what's on the horizon to upgrade to? The CDMA carriers are all getting newer androids, but I notice a lack of anything droolworthy to replace my current N1.

I'd say get the Tilt 2. It's by far my favorite phone I've had from AT&T so far.

doejohn531 said:
I'd say get the Tilt 2. It's by far my favorite phone I've had from AT&T so far.
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Im looking for a phone with specs superior to the nexus. And not in the at&t system.

For recent WM that fully support AT&T's 850 & 1900 3G, there are Tilt2, D2, and Sony X1a. I currently stick with my X1a because:
1. Tilt2 is nice with big screen but Widcomm BT stack has a lot of problem with A2DP (e.g. system volume not working). And XDA's TMC project does not support it.
2. D2 has way too few hardware buttons compare to X1, and missing 3.5mm audio jack too.
3. X1a is not sold under AT&T (so it's pricey), so AT&T has no way to figure out your device type by IMEI (even I didn't have issue with my $20 medianet plan with Tilt 1 for years).

jackleung said:
For recent WM that fully support AT&T's 850 & 1900 3G, there are Tilt2, D2, and Sony X1a. I currently stick with my X1a because:
1. Tilt2 is nice with big screen but Widcomm BT stack has a lot of problem with A2DP (e.g. system volume not working). And XDA's TMC project does not support it.
2. D2 has way too few hardware buttons compare to X1, and missing 3.5mm audio jack too.
3. X1a is not sold under AT&T (so it's pricey), so AT&T has no way to figure out your device type by IMEI (even I didn't have issue with my $20 medianet plan with Tilt 1 for years).
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Don't forget X2a which is now available in the States

Telstra HD2
I think if you require Win-Mo with Nexus One specifications... then the HD2 from Telstra is about your only option. That would enable 3G (850mhz) and give you an IMEI not within AT&T's system!

i'm trying to avoid an AT&T IMEI phone or worse: their bloatware!!!
i mean, i can always bring it to a place that can change the... **** so it doesn't show up on the sweep.
but the bloatware annoys me more.

get a nexus one!

glitzbd said:
I think if you require Win-Mo with Nexus One specifications... then the HD2 from Telstra is about your only option. That would enable 3G (850mhz) and give you an IMEI not within AT&T's system!
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This.
If you are looking for the almighty Harbinger of Windows Mobile, the one device that shows all the other pretenders that HTC is a force to be reckoned with, the HD2 is currently that device.
The Telstra HD2 T9193 works perfectly with AT&T 850MHz HSDPA. I get a solid H signal all day long. If your heart is set on Windows Mobile and performance, it is the only phone to consider.
Its only weakness is its exorbitant, extraterrestrial price. But you pay for the best.
FTR the Nexus One has comparable hardware but:
1. It's not Windows Mobile
2. The Nexus One's screen loses in both size and effective resolution (but wins in brightness and contrast)
3. The Nexus One has 64MB less hardware RAM
4. T-Mobile Nexus Ones have already had their IMEIs compromised and are automatically provisioned $30 smartphone data on AT&T. It's quite possible that AT&T Nexus Ones will not be able to stay under AT&T's radar for very long, so good luck holding on to the $15 unlimited plan for the long-term.

from what ive learned with att is that it dont really matter what phone you have if you use it on there system it will identify the type of phone (smart phone, average cell what ever it is) seeing how my family has had att sence bag phones was the newest thing out there and ive used a few phone that att dosent offer or sell and everytime ive tried to do it with out adding the data package and within a day ive recived a txt saying to use this phone you need to add a data package and att dosent really care what phone you have aslong as your bill is paided

get out of att get the evo... thats what you should do

lui22 said:
get out of att get the evo... thats what you should do
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OP wants WinMo.
OP wants to pay $15/month for data.
Android + $40/month data? You serious?
igotit989 said:
from what ive learned with att is that it dont really matter what phone you have if you use it on there system it will identify the type of phone (smart phone, average cell what ever it is) seeing how my family has had att sence bag phones was the newest thing out there and ive used a few phone that att dosent offer or sell and everytime ive tried to do it with out adding the data package and within a day ive recived a txt saying to use this phone you need to add a data package and att dosent really care what phone you have aslong as your bill is paided
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I wasn't caught on my Motorola Milestone (Telus version with 850/1900 HSDPA) or my current HD2. I'm still using a dumbphone plan.

What would you do? Contracts, phones, cancellations, and ideologies.

Alright, need some outside opinions on this. I want a new phone.
Currently, I'm on Verizon with the Droid 1. Its an excellent phone, and its been a lot of fun modding it, etc. Sapphire and Cyanogenmod have been awesome ROMs.
I've been disgusted with Verizon's, and Motorola's, actions over the past few months. From Moto's locking the bootloads on the Droid 2 and Droid X, to the essentially forced loading of Big Red's VCAST App store to the Incredible. I fully expect Verizon to disconnect their future Android phones form the Android Market in favor of their own VCAST App Store. There's also their whole Bing deal. It wouldn't bother me if I was able to change it easily, but that's not the case without rooting. Verizon's been a control freak in the past, and unfortunately, it seems the Droid 1 is going to be the exception.
While trying to stream some Flash based episodes from the web, the Droid 1 choked bad, even when OC'd to 1Ghz. Min and Max. Shoot, even connected to a PC's USB for power, the battery still drained on the thing. I want something more powerful.
Unfortunately, I am still on contract with Verizon for another year, breaking it carries a 115 USD fee.
Here's my dilemma. I like T-Mobile's myTouch 4G. Now that its been permarooted, bloat can be removed, Genius button remapped, etc, its a very nice phone. I had wanted to pick up one under their Even More Plus plans, however, that made the price too rich for my blood at present. But, it seems TMO's phased those plans out. So, if I want the Glacier, its 199 for TMO.com or 49-79 from Wirefly/Amazon. At 80 dollars, with the free activation offered by Wirefly or Amazon, the price becomes much more attractive even with the ETF from Verizon.
TMO does have a live HSPA+ network in my area. Verizon's LTE network is supposed to go live in December. I've heard conflicting reports for the launch of their 4G phones, everything from January 2011 to 3Q 2011. While I'm sure these phones will be very powerful(Tegra?), how locked down and crippled will they be?
According to TMO's website, my current phone is portable to their network, so I wouldn't have to change my number.
What would you do? If I decide to cancel the Verizon contract, where do I begin? A call to Verizon to cancel? I haven't gone all the way to the checkout at Amazon or Wirefly, is there a form for porting the number? Whats the best way to handle this? Or just wait and continue to give Verizon money despite my conflicts with their ideologies?

Nothing? No opinions?

Bump again.

well i'll help a bit
you can call Tmobile and ask them to help you port the number to Tmobile, all you need is your account details, and then you talk to verizon to break the contract and pay ETF
2nd the droid is useless on tmobile as you know its cdma and tmobile is GSM
now the even more plus plan is there but you can only get in store or on phone its removed from the site to avoid confunsion
also amazon has a high ETF of $200 so if cancell the contract you have to pay the normal ETF + 200$

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I know the Droid is useless on Tmo, but I want something more powerful. The Moto Olympus and the LG Star look like powerful devices, but I'm sure the Moto will have the locked bootloader. No idea about the LG, blurrycam shows it running some UI overlay, not vanilla Android. Could change before release.
You bring up a good point on the Amazon ETF, double wammy. Wirefly is likely similar, and I definitely don't want to be in the same situation again in a year.
I guess my main concern is about the longevity of the Glacier? Or I could sit tight with the Droid for a while and get a Gtablet to satisfy my thirst.
Sent from my Droid using XDA App

Bateluer said:
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I know the Droid is useless on Tmo, but I want something more powerful. The Moto Olympus and the LG Star look like powerful devices, but I'm sure the Moto will have the locked bootloader. No idea about the LG, blurrycam shows it running some UI overlay, not vanilla Android. Could change before release.
You bring up a good point on the Amazon ETF, double wammy. Wirefly is likely similar, and I definitely don't want to be in the same situation again in a year.
I guess my main concern is about the longevity of the Glacier? Or I could sit tight with the Droid for a while and get a Gtablet to satisfy my thirst.
Sent from my Droid using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the new moto is coming to At&t so your outta luck, also buy from T mobile and tell them your breaking your contract for them, so ask them whats the best offer they can give you

Diamond_dawg said:
the new moto is coming to At&t so your outta luck, also buy from T mobile and tell them your breaking your contract for them, so ask them whats the best offer they can give you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That seems like a good idea. Have to look into it.

[Q]Looking for a AT&T compatible Smart Phone I can get without a data plan

I have around $150 bucks I am willing to throw at a new phone.
I would like it to be able to use wifi, have a decent camera, and a physical qwerty keyboard.
Now I was reading some older threads that talked about buying an unlocked smart phone and then throwing your AT&T SIM into it and you would be good to go.
Is this still an option? Do you guys have any recommendations?
Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide, it is greatly appreciated!
I had my eye on the HTC S521.

Apo1ogetic said:
I have around $150 bucks I am willing to throw at a new phone.
I would like it to be able to use wifi, have a decent camera, and a physical qwerty keyboard.
Now I was reading some older threads that talked about buying an unlocked smart phone and then throwing your AT&T SIM into it and you would be good to go.
Is this still an option? Do you guys have any recommendations?
Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide, it is greatly appreciated!
I had my eye on the HTC S521.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any phone without AT&T branding will do. The way it works is they have a database of IMEI numebers of all the phones they sell. If the phone is not branded by them, it's not in their database, and therefore they wouldn't know what phone you're using. Try it out; When you get your new phone, pop in the SIM and log into your online account. Normally, it will show what phone you're using but now it should show a question mark or generic phone.

Product F(RED) said:
Any phone without AT&T branding will do. The way it works is they have a database of IMEI numebers of all the phones they sell. If the phone is not branded by them, it's not in their database, and therefore they wouldn't know what phone you're using. Try it out; When you get your new phone, pop in the SIM and log into your online account. Normally, it will show what phone you're using but now it should show a question mark or generic phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot for explaining that! So any unlocked phone would work? I suppose I can't use a Sprint Branded Phone or something right? I guess my only other question left is do you have a recommendation for a solid phone for my price range? I don't need anything too fancy.
If you know of a website with reliable reviews of phones that would be appreciated as well.

Apo1ogetic said:
Thanks a lot for explaining that! So any unlocked phone would work? I suppose I can't use a Sprint Branded Phone or something right? I guess my only other question left is do you have a recommendation for a solid phone for my price range? I don't need anything too fancy.
If you know of a website with reliable reviews of phones that would be appreciated as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only Sprint phones that I know of that would work on AT&T (or T-Mobile) are the Blackberry Tour (but has no wifi), Blackberry Bold 9650 (the SIM slot comes unlocked by default), and the Touch Pro 2. The Blackberries would run on EDGE though, not 3G, but the Bold has wifi built in. [Sprint is CDMA, not GSM]
But that aside, do you care if it's a smartphone or not?
Usually CNET.com and Phonedog.com (Phonedog also has a YouTube channel) do good reviews.

Product F(RED) said:
The only Sprint phones that I know of that would work on AT&T (or T-Mobile) are the Blackberry Tour (but has no wifi), Blackberry Bold 9650 (the SIM slot comes unlocked by default), and the Touch Pro 2. The Blackberries would run on EDGE though, not 3G, but the Bold has wifi built in. [Sprint is CDMA, not GSM]
But that aside, do you care if it's a smartphone or not?
Usually CNET.com and Phonedog.com (Phonedog also has a YouTube channel) do good reviews.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically I want the best bang for my buck while avoiding a mandatory data usage fee. I'm at college most the time and they have public WiFi spots that I can use.
The Touch Pro 2 really interested me but it was a bit pricey, although the Sprint Version is much cheaper. But I thought Sprint is only CDMA so how would that work with AT&T?

Apo1ogetic said:
Basically I want the best bang for my buck while avoiding a mandatory data usage fee. I'm at college most the time and they have public WiFi spots that I can use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm...What about something like this? http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Unlocke..._1_1?s=wireless&ie=UTF8&qid=1301901933&sr=1-1
$150 for an unlocked smartphone is rare but Nokia's usually fall within that price range and are really good. Just search "Nokia" on Amazon. Also, you can hit up Craigslist. I know that you can unlock Samsung Vibrants from T-Mobile because the code is actually store inside the phone. Most technologically-illiterate people sell them for cheap because they don't know what they're worth.
EDIT: Also, if you want a slight upgrade to that Nokia, check this out. It's a little over your price range but not by much: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Unlocked-QWERTY-Camera-Navigation/dp/B003X26SLC/ref=pd_cp_cps_1_img

Ok so I am using this site as a reference "gsmarena.com" and they give the HTC Touch Pro2 a 8.4 Average while the the Nokia E5 only gets a 7.5, is there something I'm missing? Because the Nokia phone seems to have much better specs.
Also what about installing a custom/modded OS on these. Would I have an easier time with the Nokia or Touch Pro? (I like the bigger keyboard of the Touch Pro2)
I'm also considering trying to snag a HTC HD2 off of Ebay for around 150 bucks if I can.

Apo1ogetic said:
Ok so I am using this site as a reference "gsmarena.com" and they give the HTC Touch Pro2 a 8.4 Average while the the Nokia E5 only gets a 7.5, is there something I'm missing? Because the Nokia phone seems to have much better specs.
Also what about installing a custom/modded OS on these. Would I have an easier time with the Nokia or Touch Pro? (I like the bigger keyboard of the Touch Pro2)
I'm also considering trying to snag a HTC HD2 off of Ebay for around 150 bucks if I can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As a rule, I prefer GSMArena for reviews and picture galleries, and ignore most else. Their Touch Pro 2 review will tell you a lot.
As far as custom OS' go, you'll want to steer very clear of Nokia if that's your intention. Their devices are built for Symbian (N900 excepted) and that's about it. The Touch Pro 2 has numerous builds of Android available, and came stock with Windows Mobile (not the new one).
Make four more posts and have a scour through the Marketplace here also, you'll find a good deal or two.
Good Luck!

Apo1ogetic said:
Ok so I am using this site as a reference "gsmarena.com" and they give the HTC Touch Pro2 a 8.4 Average while the the Nokia E5 only gets a 7.5, is there something I'm missing? Because the Nokia phone seems to have much better specs.
Also what about installing a custom/modded OS on these. Would I have an easier time with the Nokia or Touch Pro? (I like the bigger keyboard of the Touch Pro2)
I'm also considering trying to snag a HTC HD2 off of Ebay for around 150 bucks if I can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can get an HD2 off eBay, get it. It can run Android, Windows Phone 7, Windows Mobile 6.x, Ubuntu, Maemo, and a lot more. It's also equivalent, spec-wise to an Evo. Get it over the Touch Pro 2!.

Product F(RED) said:
If you can get an HD2 off eBay, get it. It can run Android, Windows Phone 7, Windows Mobile 6.x, Ubuntu, Maemo, and a lot more. It's also equivalent, spec-wise to an Evo. Get it over the Touch Pro 2!.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your help, I think the HTC HD2 at 150 is a pipe dream, but I'll keep looking haha.

juzz86 said:
As a rule, I prefer GSMArena for reviews and picture galleries, and ignore most else. Their Touch Pro 2 review will tell you a lot.
As far as custom OS' go, you'll want to steer very clear of Nokia if that's your intention. Their devices are built for Symbian (N900 excepted) and that's about it. The Touch Pro 2 has numerous builds of Android available, and came stock with Windows Mobile (not the new one).
Make four more posts and have a scour through the Marketplace here also, you'll find a good deal or two.
Good Luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm guessing the Marketplace is hidden to me until I make 8 posts then?

Apo1ogetic said:
I'm guessing the Marketplace is hidden to me until I make 8 posts then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure but you can definitely snag an HD2 off of eBay or Craigslist for cheap. People don't know what these things are worth.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Product F(RED) said:
Not sure but you can definitely snag an HD2 off of eBay or Craigslist for cheap. People don't know what these things are worth.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya they seem to be worth upwards of $400 bucks and I'm pretty sure I can get one for under $250, just not sure I want to spend that much...

Apo1ogetic said:
Ya they seem to be worth upwards of $400 bucks and I'm pretty sure I can get one for under $250, just not sure I want to spend that much...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://cgi.ebay.com/HTC-HD2-T-Mobil...Cell_Phones&hash=item1e62a66712#ht_500wt_1156

Product F(RED) said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HTC-HD2-T-Mobil...Cell_Phones&hash=item1e62a66712#ht_500wt_1156
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man, I'll be watching this and see how it develops tonight.

Blah that HD2 went for over 200 when you count shipping. I know that is still probably a good deal but more than I want to spend.
I'm also thinking of just getting the Tilt 2 now and going with the $15 data plan so I can take advantage of the 3G.

I just dumped ATT a couple of months ago and moved us over to Verizon with Droid X phones. Prior when I was on I was given 7 ATT BB 8300 phones by a friend when their company upgraded. for about a year all was fine. We were not using data on them so the small data plan from our old phones was fine. then about 6 months back every month I would get a txt from ATT saying that they had changed my data plan to an appropriate one for the phones. That was $25 a phone per month. Every month i would call and complain and they would tell me that they were removing it. then a few days later they would add it back again.
So be careful because ATT will add data plans on You.

TexanFW said:
I just dumped ATT a couple of months ago and moved us over to Verizon with Droid X phones. Prior when I was on I was given 7 ATT BB 8300 phones by a friend when their company upgraded. for about a year all was fine. We were not using data on them so the small data plan from our old phones was fine. then about 6 months back every month I would get a txt from ATT saying that they had changed my data plan to an appropriate one for the phones. That was $25 a phone per month. Every month i would call and complain and they would tell me that they were removing it. then a few days later they would add it back again.
So be careful because ATT will add data plans on You.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only if you use AT&T branded phones. If you don't, they won't know what phone you're using because it's not in their database.

Product F(RED) said:
Only if you use AT&T branded phones. If you don't, they won't know what phone you're using because it's not in their database.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm having a hard time finding a decently priced phone that isn't AT&T but that will still work on AT&T's 3G. From my understanding neither the HD2 nor the Touch Pro 2 will do this.
Which is what has swayed me to just forking over the 15 a month and getting the Tilt 2 (Which if I'm not mistaken is the AT&T version of the Touch Pro 2)
I've already checked AT&T's site and this phone only requires 15 a month for a data plan.

Apo1ogetic said:
I'm having a hard time finding a decently priced phone that isn't AT&T but that will still work on AT&T's 3G. From my understanding neither the HD2 nor the Touch Pro 2 will do this.
Which is what has swayed me to just forking over the 15 a month and getting the Tilt 2 (Which if I'm not mistaken is the AT&T version of the Touch Pro 2)
I've already checked AT&T's site and this phone only requires 15 a month for a data plan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I googled it and that's what AT&T decided to call it; The Tilt 2.

Sprint HTC Arrive put on EOL

I posted this on WPCentral's Arrive forum, figured I'd post this here as well... I went down to the Sprint corporate store on 42nd street in NYC the other day for kicks and noted that the HTC Arrive was nowhere to be found. The same could be said for the three Sprint Authorized Retailers around where I live. No Arrives in stock and 2 out of the 3 had no demo units on the floor (the one that did had a non-working dummy).
I asked a rep about it and he told me that as of the last signage/price changes and updates, the Arrive was listed as EOL, but it's in their systems and on sprint.com as $49.99 after $50 mail-in rebate should someone want to order one.
Hopeful for a Windows Phone 8 announcement or has Sprint officially given up?

The Arrive has been out for just over a year. It is pretty old by todays cell standards so I would just be patient for WP8 as I would bet all Windows Phone sales have slowed down since the WP8 anouncement. Lets just hope that HTC doesn't play hardball and actually develops a Arrive 2 and keeps the HW keyboard alive.

...and we wonder where Windows Phone support on Sprint went to... look no further -
Sprint CEO says paying over $15 billion for the iPhone was money well spent | iMore.com
Quoted from the CEO Hesse himself -
“I think the No. 1 thing was getting the call from Apple that they were interested in at least having the opportunity,” Hesse said. Of course, the company and its board had to take a hard look at the economics. Selling the iPhone is good for the long term, Hesse said, noting that customers are more valuable in the long term. But, in the short term, it is costly, as the company spends more in subsidies to attract those iPhone buyers.
“We committed to $15.5 billion over four years in purchases,” Hesse said. “That’s a large commitment. ”He said Sprint looked at Apple and its popularity, and “we saw no reason to bet against Apple.”
Ugh...

And you are supprised? They don't have to pay didly to get Windows Phone but the iPhone is obviously the best thing to come to both Verizon and Sprint (since the EVO) and in reality, it is money well spent at least for the next year or two until WP8 really begins to make a dent in the market. Until then, there is nothing negitive about the money spent to get the most popular smartphone on their network. The sheer number of people that were just waiting for it to happen so they could jump ship from AT&T alone probably was worth it.

After such a long time from release, it deemed to go to an end. I just am surprised why it took so long. Stupid sprint didn't go get anything new for WP7.

ctiger said:
After such a long time from release, it deemed to go to an end. I just am surprised why it took so long. Stupid sprint didn't go get anything new for WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What other CDMA Designes were released in that time? Heck how many of them used WiMax 4G? That was the problem with Sprint bringing on any new phones since none of the current 1st and 2nd gen devices were really a high end device worth bringing over to their network. The one thing they could have done is swapped the Trophy and Arrive between Verizon and Sprint, but overall the differences between the two aren't huge.
With WP8 and the new selection of chipsets and such to choose from, I am sure Sprint will have another new handset as well as the Return of Nokia to them as well.

IM0001 said:
With WP8 and the new selection of chipsets and such to choose from, I am sure Sprint will have another new handset as well as the Return of Nokia to them as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not. Though it is more likely now that Sprint is getting LTE, I know that I, personally, am jumping to Verizon when my contract is up in March, or maybe sooner if I decide it's worth it to pay the ETF before then. All I'm really waiting for is the Verizon store 3 blocks away to get the Lumia 822. ATIV S, or HTC 8X on display for me to go play with/drool over.

evath said:
Probably not. Though it is more likely now that Sprint is getting LTE, I know that I, personally, am jumping to Verizon when my contract is up in March, or maybe sooner if I decide it's worth it to pay the ETF before then. All I'm really waiting for is the Verizon store 3 blocks away to get the Lumia 822. ATIV S, or HTC 8X on display for me to go play with/drool over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wish I could find the links, but Sprint just seems to have finished all support for WP7 period. I doubt we'll even see WP8's on Sprint. That might change due to the Softbank acquisition, but as for the current direction of Sprint, seems android and iPhone only now. Anyone who is diehard Sprint better just slap their hand's together and start praying that Softbank changes Sprint's overall direction for the better.
Besides, You can't Zune update an Arrive past 7720 anyway on Zune. It's been ages since Sprint has done anything with their Arrive. I doubt when WP7.8 hits, that the Arrive will even get the SYS update to that, regardless of what NuAngel seems to think XD.

TheXev said:
I wish I could find the links, but Sprint just seems to have finished all support for WP7 period. I doubt we'll even see WP8's on Sprint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it, too; anytime I go into the Sprint repair store, the reps laugh at me for my Arrive, and I'm not the one getting a phone repaired! It's always my sisters with their Androids...
But, whatever. I used to support Sprint a lot, even defending them when others bad mouthed them ("Ohh, you have Sprint? How's it feel to be one of about 17 customers?" "Yeah, well, how is it on just a 3G network?" [back when WiMax had just come out, before AT&T ad Verizon got LTE.]). Now? Not so much. Like I said, as soon as the test models Arrive (get it?) at the Verizon store, I'm gonna switch.
Besides, You can't Zune update an Arrive past 7720 anyway on Zune. It's been ages since Sprint has done anything with their Arrive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is why the development sections of this forum exist. I've been running 7.8 since around late August, early September.
I doubt when WP7.8 hits, that the Arrive will even get the SYS update to that, regardless of what NuAngel seems to think XD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, from what I hear, Zune will push the update directly, but then again, I don't hear everything, so YMMV.