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Now Froyo is supposed to be a major milestone with Android, but, frankly, I think the same thing was said about Android 2.1. I don't care much for the USB tethering (because we already have that), wifi hotspot feature (because I'm not going to use it), and so on, but there are a few major points of things I'm hanging on.
Notably, the supposed performance improvement being 2-5x greater than Android 2.1 That is a big claim and, if true, then the Captivate will be completely lag free on stock. If so, the usability on this phone will just shoot straight up. The smoother transition and animation should also help this greatly.
I'm not too concerned about having Flash 10.1, but Froyo is also supposed to come with numerous other improvements. I know the browser is being updated to support some hardware features, but I hope Google is also improving the general usability of the browser. As it is now, it kind of sucks. Additionally, I also hope the Youtube app is also updated.
Nonetheless, even if all the others remain nothing more than a dream, I, at the least, hope the improvement performance/transitions/animation turns out to be something of substance.
Well, here's to September.
The Captivate has plenty of cpu power... it seems that most of the lag we are expeirencing comes with the filesystem Samsung has chosen to use and it's poor I/O performance. I'm not sure if Froyo will help too much - but I would expect that once 2.2 hits the custom ROM scene will really kick off, and hopefull somebody will implement YAFFS or whatever some of the other phones (Nexus 1, etc) are using.
We may see better battery life if the system needs fewer CPU cycles to accomplish the same tasks it's doing now.
Don't forget - we'll also receive the new kernal which should double the available RAM from 256mb in 2.1 to 512mb in 2.2 - though the system seems to currently report there is currently 325mb aviable. In either case, it will be a big increase - though I'm not really having any memory issues at the moment.
I'm trying not to get too excited for it, but it does make some impressive promises.
^ Well, Samsung does have its own customized version of Android. I'd imagine that the one they're rolling out in September will contain an improved filesystem (as I've heard that Samsung is currently aware of the issue) and, in combination with Froyo's own improvements, should do a lot to help Android perform better.
I wasn't aware of the kernel thing. I don't see how is that possible, though. The Captivate has a total of 512MB RAM, so wouldn't it need a part of that in order to operate normally?
The new kernel in 2.2 has HIMEM support and supports more than 256mb, which is what 2.1 is limited to. I'm not sure if Samsung tweaked the kernel to support the 325mb we have now or how that figure is derived, but right now we can't use all the RAM that the Captivate packs.
^ I looked up info on 'HIGHMEM' and I see what you mean now. The updated kernel supports devices with RAM greater than 256MB RAM. I thought you actually meant that the kernel will make all 512MB available for the user.
Alright, that sounds good. I guess the additional support may be why there is supposed to be increased smoothness and animation.
8525Smart said:
Now Froyo is supposed to be a major milestone with Android, but, frankly, I think the same thing was said about Android 2.1. I don't care much for the USB tethering (because we already have that), wifi hotspot feature (because I'm not going to use it), and so on, but there are a few major points of things I'm hanging on.
Notably, the supposed performance improvement being 2-5x greater than Android 2.1 That is a big claim and, if true, then the Captivate will be completely lag free on stock. If so, the usability on this phone will just shoot straight up. The smoother transition and animation should also help this greatly.
I'm not too concerned about having Flash 10.1, but Froyo is also supposed to come with numerous other improvements. I know the browser is being updated to support some hardware features, but I hope Google is also improving the general usability of the browser. As it is now, it kind of sucks. Additionally, I also hope the Youtube app is also updated.
Nonetheless, even if all the others remain nothing more than a dream, I, at the least, hope the improvement performance/transitions/animation turns out to be something of substance.
Well, here's to September.
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Click to collapse
I totally agree with you. I couldn't care less about tethering, hotspot or Flash. I never used them and never will. I just don't need them.
The only thing I care about is the speed improvement. I don't really believe it will have 2-5x improvement boost because, well, every claim is exaggerated. But I am expecting something.
That said, I am not too optimistic though. I have tried several Droid 2 in Verizon stores. It's very disappointing. It feels rather sluggish and laggy. Even worse than the Captivate now. And apparently Engadget reviewer agrees with me.
So as much as I welcome the birth of 2.2, I am not as optimistic as others.
And final words, I don't think we'll get the update in Sept. I think Samsung will (hopefully) release it in Sept, but it will take AT&T another month or two to load their crap.
I wish I am wrong.
mwxiao said:
And final words, I don't think we'll get the update in Sept. I think Samsung will (hopefully) release it in Sept, but it will take AT&T another month or two to load their crap.
I wish I am wrong.
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Click to collapse
Since the test roms that have come out are from Samsung and they already have AT&T crap on them, I believe its safe to assume that Samsung is making the roms for AT&T. So, there should be no extra step for AT&T to load their crap...it should come directly from Samsung.
Considering 2.2 has gotten a ton of praise from other phones that are already using it I'm sure our Froyo will be a worthwhile upgrade as well. Sure, Samsung might screw the pooch on some things again, but overall it will be better.
This isn't Windoze, how can an upgrade be disappointing?
Bring on the Froyo!
cappysw10 said:
This isn't Windoze, how can an upgrade be disappointing?
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Click to collapse
I am sure an update is always good. But if it doesn't meet the high expectations, it will be a disappointment. And I think the expectations are pretty high.
mwxiao said:
That said, I am not too optimistic though. I have tried several Droid 2 in Verizon stores. It's very disappointing. It feels rather sluggish and laggy. Even worse than the Captivate now. And apparently Engadget reviewer agrees with me.
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Click to collapse
Whoa, looks like I was a bit outdated. I actually hadn't realize Motorola's Droid 2 was using Froyo already (I still thought the Nexus One was the only phone that had it ).
Regarding the September release, I actually thought it was taking until September because Samsung is currently modifying all of their Froyo ROMs for each individual smartphone/carrier. After all, Froyo has technically been released already, so why else is Samsung taking until September to officially release it to all of their handsets?
glio1337 said:
Considering 2.2 has gotten a ton of praise from other phones that are already using it I'm sure our Froyo will be a worthwhile upgrade as well. Sure, Samsung might screw the pooch on some things again, but overall it will be better.
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Click to collapse
That's just the thing, though. As I said, prior Android releases have garnered praise too. Eclair has gotten praise and was said to improve hardware performance, have a better browser UI, improved virtual keyboard, and so on. Of those three, I think the only one I would agree has truly improved is the virtual keyboard (I think the Android keyboard works very well on Eclair). The other listed improvements? Not so much.
Of course, Froyo will be better overall, but I just hope it's actually a milestone release with the proclaimed changes making a big difference instead of just steadily updating the platform with people telling me afterwards to wait for Gingerbread.
When reviews from places like Gizmodo, Engadget, Boy Genius etc say that they think 2.2 is a worthy step up from 2.1, I tend to take it as truth.
Regardless of any of that, all of the goodness from 2.2 is dependent on Samsung/ATT because they have the power to muck it up badly as they did with 2.1.
glio1337 said:
When reviews from places like Gizmodo, Engadget, Boy Genius etc say that they think 2.2 is a worthy step up from 2.1, I tend to take it as truth.
Regardless of any of that, all of the goodness from 2.2 is dependent on Samsung/ATT because they have the power to muck it up badly as they did with 2.1.
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Really? I find engadget and gizmodo to be awful at everything but aggregating news. Their opinions are always so uninformed and seem to be governed by whatever the fashionable opinion at the time.
Their product reviews are pretty good, or at the very least talk about the things most people would care about.
8525Smart said:
After all, Froyo has technically been released already, so why else is Samsung taking until September to officially release it to all of their handsets?
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Samsung needs to customize it for its hardware and put on Twisted-Wiz UI. It's slow.
That's just the thing, though. As I said, prior Android releases have garnered praise too. Eclair has gotten praise and was said to improve hardware performance, have a better browser UI, improved virtual keyboard, and so on. Of those three, I think the only one I would agree has truly improved is the virtual keyboard (I think the Android keyboard works very well on Eclair). The other listed improvements? Not so much.
Of course, Froyo will be better overall, but I just hope it's actually a milestone release with the proclaimed changes making a big difference instead of just steadily updating the platform with people telling me afterwards to wait for Gingerbread.
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I don't believe a 0.1 upgrade will be considered as milestone. We will definitely see speed improvement. But it's normal for every update. You always wait for the next update. It's always snappier.
glio1337 said:
When reviews from places like Gizmodo, Engadget, Boy Genius etc say that they think 2.2 is a worthy step up from 2.1, I tend to take it as truth.
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Of cause it's gonna be a worthy update. It's always worthy to upgrade to the next version. The question is, is it going to be as dramatic as they claimed? Personally, I don't think so.
cappysw10 said:
This isn't Windoze, how can an upgrade be disappointing?
Bring on the Froyo!
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Click to collapse
Gotta love windows haters...
Any way, I cannot wait for froyo because I want to be able to move apps to the SD, to use flash without having to use Skyfire and using the extra memory should help too.
Plus I am expecting a TON of ROMs when it comes out so slowly but surely they phone would be maximize.
shaolin95 said:
...be able to move apps to the SD...
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Click to collapse
Quoted for truth
I am more looking forward to an official lag fix and GPS fix moreso than Froyo.
I just read somewhere that JIT was written for the snapdragon processors and that while it may give us a little performance it wasn't really written for the hummingbird processor in our phones...so the chances of Samsung rewriting it just for us is probably very slim
The claims of 2-5x performance increase do seem hard to believe, but I believe these figures came from actual testing on the Nexus One running 2.2. Of course, I think we all know how reliable benchmarks are...
September is only a few hours away... where is our Froyo!!
I just called Viewsonic to ask if they were going to be releasing updates in the near future to fix the G-tab problems. The girl I talked to was very nice (and I'm not just saying that because she said they keep tabs on xda-developers.com!)...but she couldn't provide a timeline or details about upcoming fixes or software. Bummer.
She did, however, mention that they're aware of the problems with Tap'NTap and that they're looking at ways to improve performance. I hope that means they'll be updating the drivers to use the 2nd core of the Tegra 2. I'm happy with that answer because I just want to know that the company is supporting its products. I'm pretty satisfied with my G-tab currently, but I really want it to run at it's optimal performance.
Just thought I'd share what I heard.
LOL!! Bye bye tapntap!
lostpilot28 said:
I just called Viewsonic to ask if they were going to be releasing updates in the near future to fix the G-tab problems. The girl I talked to was very nice (and I'm not just saying that because she said they keep tabs on xda-developers.com!)...but she couldn't provide a timeline or details about upcoming fixes or software. Bummer.
She did, however, mention that they're aware of the problems with Tap'NTap and that they're looking at ways to improve performance. I hope that means they'll be updating the drivers to use the 2nd core of the Tegra 2. I'm happy with that answer because I just want to know that the company is supporting its products. I'm pretty satisfied with my G-tab currently, but I really want it to run at it's optimal performance.
Just thought I'd share what I heard.
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Click to collapse
I spoke to Viewsonic Tech Support last night and, as usual, the guy was very eager to help, but didn't have a lot of answers. He did confirm that the 20 Dec release will update several things, like provide VTC software, keyboard update, TnT update, and a long list of other issues that appear to be repeat gripes from users...
Irish G said:
I spoke to Viewsonic Tech Support last night and, as usual, the guy was very eager to help, but didn't have a lot of answers. He did confirm that the 20 Dec release will update several things, like provide VTC software, keyboard update, TnT update, and a long list of other issues that appear to be repeat gripes from users...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Too late to stem the tide of returns though. On a positive note, plenty of time for Roeby & Company to rest before the next source for a big update
Unless something comes by their paths earlier.....
Irish G said:
He did confirm that the 20 Dec release will update several things, like provide VTC software, keyboard update, TnT update, and a long list of other issues that appear to be repeat gripes from users...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is VTC software?
I think they just completely misjudged their market. They thought they could get away with a toy-like interface (clearly targeted toward Moms, with the "Grocery List" and "To-Do List" and photos front and center), but in this era when so many people have smartphones, the TNT stuff isn't going to cut it. Once you've seen an iPhone or Android 2.x in action, you're not going to want some sort of fake overlay. Especially when you KNOW that Android is running beneath it!
Lack of full Market and Angry Birds was also a killer error.
Now that I've got TNTLite, full Market, and Google apps syncing, this is exactly what I expected a tab to be--a big version of my phone. I knew that by getting one now I wouldn't get a fabulous *tab* experience (awaiting Honeycomb for that), but I did at least want the equivalent of my phone, on a bigger screen. Which I imagine is common.
XDA types and other folks in the know who see the specs on this thing and know that it has the potential to keep up with the first generation of Honeycomb tablets (and are willing to mod to make it useable) are the only thing coming close to preventing this from being a complete debacle for Viewsonic.
I wonder whether they'll truly get rid of TnT, though.
lostpilot28 said:
What is VTC software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
video teleconference - video chat software like Skype...
jacindc said:
I think they just completely misjudged their market. They thought they could get away with a toy-like interface (clearly targeted toward Moms, with the "Grocery List" and "To-Do List" and photos front and center), but in this era when so many people have smartphones, the TNT stuff isn't going to cut it. Once you've seen an iPhone or Android 2.x in action, you're not going to want some sort of fake overlay. Especially when you KNOW that Android is running beneath it!
Lack of full Market and Angry Birds was also a killer error.
Now that I've got TNTLite, full Market, and Google apps syncing, this is exactly what I expected a tab to be--a big version of my phone. I knew that by getting one now I wouldn't get a fabulous *tab* experience (awaiting Honeycomb for that), but I did at least want the equivalent of my phone, on a bigger screen. Which I imagine is common.
XDA types and other folks in the know who see the specs on this thing and know that it has the potential to keep up with the first generation of Honeycomb tablets (and are willing to mod to make it useable) are the only thing coming close to preventing this from being a complete debacle for Viewsonic.
I wonder whether they'll truly get rid of TnT, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could not have said it better myself.
I actually have a few people at work looking to buy these things as long as I can "fix" them.
Hilarious and sad at the same time that Viewsonic would release a product like they have.
I spoke to a sales rep at sears to see if they had any refurbs. She mentioned they still haven't sold one piece yet, and they've had stock a week prior to BF.
jacindc said:
I think they just completely misjudged their market. They thought they could get away with a toy-like interface (clearly targeted toward Moms, with the "Grocery List" and "To-Do List" and photos front and center), but in this era when so many people have smartphones, the TNT stuff isn't going to cut it. Once you've seen an iPhone or Android 2.x in action, you're not going to want some sort of fake overlay. Especially when you KNOW that Android is running beneath it!
Lack of full Market and Angry Birds was also a killer error.
Now that I've got TNTLite, full Market, and Google apps syncing, this is exactly what I expected a tab to be--a big version of my phone. I knew that by getting one now I wouldn't get a fabulous *tab* experience (awaiting Honeycomb for that), but I did at least want the equivalent of my phone, on a bigger screen. Which I imagine is common.
XDA types and other folks in the know who see the specs on this thing and know that it has the potential to keep up with the first generation of Honeycomb tablets (and are willing to mod to make it useable) are the only thing coming close to preventing this from being a complete debacle for Viewsonic.
I wonder whether they'll truly get rid of TnT, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to be a downer, but at the current return rates and no decent chance for a fix for the majority of people (non modders) until 12/20- The Gtablet may not be around very long. This product may be one of those firesale devices and then Viewsonic will flip the bill for that sale.
Not seeing how anymore than the current 60,000-ish will be produced. Not good business sense and would not be surprised to see the device rebranded, once a stable rom is made and shipped with the device (or a version of it).
No way anybody selling will be net positive for dollars with this device and Viewsonic had better have some cash accrued in their P&L for February. That will be the month of being accountable for this product. This will be in the seven figure zone for compensation. How can it not be?
This device shipped about two months too early. Still wild that the Advent Vega apparently does not have the problems out of box and also a Tegra 2. One month later release though.
added:
The mod community is the only reason return rates are probably not near parity with sales. My guess is the reason we have not seen more refurbs is a combination or presents wrapped up and shipments held from sale (either by not pushing sales or not releasing from warehouses).
It will take a firmware package miracle and good web page communication by Viewsonic to turn the sunami of returns away after Christmas.
Regardless, the Gtablet will be a legend for modders, but the net loss of margin for selling at discounts or refurbs will be rough for sellers. All 60,000 WILL sell, just not in the retail format as expected.
rushless said:
Not to be a downer, but at the current return rates and no decent chance for a fix for the majority of people (non modders) until 12/20- The Gtablet may not be around very long. This product may be one of those firesale devices and then Viewsonic will flip the bill for that sale.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree, but as long as we can keep Roebeet and Rothnic and a few others chained to their Gtabs, maybe we can get to Honeycomb. ;-)
If I have to buy a new tab next spring, it won't be the end of the world. I always looked at this as a toy to tide me over. But it might have the possibility of lasting a lot longer, at least in the XDA world. If not, I'll give it to Mom and Dad. In its TNTLite config, it'll work just fine for them.
rushless said:
This device shipped about two months too early. Still wild that the Advent Vega apparently does not have the problems out of box and also a Tegra 2. One month later release though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't necessarily agree with this. I don't think it's the timing of release compared to Android 3.0 that's the problem, or that it's the hardware. It just seems that Viewsonic COULD have offered better drivers and a lightly modified Froyo build right from the beginning. The G-Tab would work so much better if they had.
Hopefully, Viewsonic is listening and they release better drivers soon. I think the hardware is fantastic...it would be a shame to have to return this thing because they're too slow to fix the software issues.
I'm seriously crossing my fingers that the XDA rockstars get the Advent Vega MOD running. That would be fantastic.
I called around to my two local sears and asked if they had return units for sale. Both said no.
I, for one, want these to be succesful and to sell. Nothing worse than this whole thing being a flop and then Viewsonic dropping the product support for them. That means our chances of getting updated roms gets slimmer, especially stuff like honeycomb.
I don't think there's any doubt that some of the issues related to the tablet are due to its lack of hardware support from the actual mfrs, and Android. Some examples.. when this was launched, there wasn't even flash available (they had to wait on adobe for this). This can't be blamed on viewsonic, and it's unfortunate but ultimately they get the blame that it doesn't have flash. Why have they not included the "beta" plugin from Adobe? Perhaps because it's a beta version, and they're not allowed to package it in and release it.
We also have issues with the Tegra 2. Did Nvidia's QA dept or who knows what reason cause delays for the drivers to get to Viewsonic? Again, we don't know. I'm sure Viewsonic would've loved to package up the latest/best drivers, but the reality is that perhaps they weren't available.
Regarding Android, well, we all know some of the problems. Hardware acceleration for videos via Android and the Tegra 2 simply isn't there. The Tegra 2 does HW decoding of various formats, and it looks like it's not working. Again, is this android or perhaps Nvidia? Who knows really. We also have the issue with lack of dual core support in Android 2.2.
Anyway, point is, Viewsonic is certainly not the sole person to blame for a poor launch of this product and it being "incomplete." I'm sure the parties and circumstances caused a problem. I'm a dev myself, so I understand all the problems that could arise from a "new" device. I just figured I'd mention these things to highlight the possible problems that arise from such a device, for the non-techy folks. Perhaps they shouldn't have launched the devices until they were more functional, and yes that rests on Viewsonic.
Just my 2 cents.. I certainly understand people's frustration..
This is why everything else with Tegra is preorder. Waiting on flash, market, etc to become available first. Still I think Viewsonic would have cut their returns in half if they would have just left the overlay off.
My big worry is that roebeet and others are going to move (totally within their rights) on and we are going to be left with a device that Viewsonic is not going to improve through future updates due to poor sales.
Honestly, what roebeet and others have done is simply amazing and I am very appreciative for their work. However, Honeycomb is some time off and it is unknown whether DEVs will be around to keep the Gtab up to date.
Dan
Nvidia releasing a honeycomb build for developers is 90% of what we need. Like they did for Froyo. As long is Tegra2 is produced I'm not worrying.
lostpilot28 said:
I don't necessarily agree with this. I don't think it's the timing of release compared to Android 3.0 that's the problem, or that it's the hardware. It just seems that Viewsonic COULD have offered better drivers and a lightly modified Froyo build right from the beginning. The G-Tab would work so much better if they had.
Hopefully, Viewsonic is listening and they release better drivers soon. I think the hardware is fantastic...it would be a shame to have to return this thing because they're too slow to fix the software issues.
I'm seriously crossing my fingers that the XDA rockstars get the Advent Vega MOD running. That would be fantastic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you- point is Viewsonic is nowhere near ready with an out of box firmware package and non-mod consumers will treat the device as defective. Considering it shipped late October and assuming the 12/20 FW release is solid, it would be two months- hence my two months too early assertion.
Even if 60,000 is all that is made (I hope it is not the case), that still means plenty of devices floating around
Who knows, maybe VS will release a near-miracle update and communicate on their support page the status and a roadmap to more improvements. Communication like that via a published format on their web page for the product would be HUGE for customer trust
Not dogging the device proper (I still own one at $402 total)- but am dogging the out of box state for most consumers.
rushless said:
Not to be a downer, but at the current return rates and no decent chance for a fix for the majority of people (non modders) until 12/20- The Gtablet may not be around very long. This product may be one of those firesale devices and then Viewsonic will flip the bill for that sale.
Not seeing how anymore than the current 60,000-ish will be produced. Not good business sense and would not be surprised to see the device rebranded, once a stable rom is made and shipped with the device (or a version of it).
No way anybody selling will be net positive for dollars with this device and Viewsonic had better have some cash accrued in their P&L for February. That will be the month of being accountable for this product. This will be in the seven figure zone for compensation. How can it not be?
This device shipped about two months too early. Still wild that the Advent Vega apparently does not have the problems out of box and also a Tegra 2. One month later release though.
added:
The mod community is the only reason return rates are probably not near parity with sales. My guess is the reason we have not seen more refurbs is a combination or presents wrapped up and shipments held from sale (either by not pushing sales or not releasing from warehouses).
It will take a firmware package miracle and good web page communication by Viewsonic to turn the sunami of returns away after Christmas.
Regardless, the Gtablet will be a legend for modders, but the net loss of margin for selling at discounts or refurbs will be rough for sellers. All 60,000 WILL sell, just not in the retail format as expected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid of that possibility as well. What's really sad is that Viewsonic had the chance to become the "iPod" of Android Tablets, but they're seriously blowing it. A product that works as bad as this out of the box will seriously discourage repeat buyers. Repeat buyers drives iPod sales, this won't happen for Viewsonic if these issues aren't addressed.
The enhancements that have been made in just a few weeks by the efforts of Roebeet, Rothnic, Bekit and others show the great potential with the existing hardware they're selling. Any of these releases is more like what Viewsonic should have released in the first place. I just hope that the Malata does better in Asia, it sounds like they're being pretty progressive about getting patches out there. If Malata succeeds at least there's hope for future upgrades/enhancements.
Reading the NVidia Tegra Development Forums it sounds like they've got 1080P running on their Tegra 250 Dev Kit, on linux at least. Can anyone shed some light on why the development for the Android doesn't seem to be keeping up? Is the 2.2 Platform incapable of that level of performance or are they instead concentrating their efforts on Gingerbread or Honeycomb for that performance boost? It seems some of this failure of delivering a better performing product lies in NVidia's lap, Viewsonic's software is another story. Looking over the latest "Advent Performance Pack" that was recently released, these are the files from the image that was released in the Tegra Developer Forums on 11/11/10. The Tegra 2 was shown to developers in January(or earlier) and only now have they released code to provide better performance for the Tegra 2? It's like they're sabotaging themselves by not utilizing their hardware to the best of it's abilities.
I'm confused by all of this, wouldn't
make a good product = sell more = make more money = make more on repeat buyers(upgrading)
make sense versus
release an immature product = loss on returns = customers will never buy from again?
dkhilo said:
The Tegra 2 was shown to developers in January(or earlier) and only now have they released code to provide better performance for the Tegra 2? It's like they're sabotaging themselves by not utilizing their hardware to the best of it's abilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the short answer is "things take time." The reality is that drivers do go through different iterations, and perhaps Tegra 2 (and possibly the drivers) would fare better in Android 2.3. Sometimes you just have to be patient, and rushing things can result in the Viewsonic tablet. I was trying to say that in my rather long winded post.
Google says they aren't releasing Honeycomb source. Not sure how this fits with GPL, but show that "open" doesn't mean the same thing to them as to the rest of us.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Eh - I wasn't impressed with Honeycomb when I used it on the Xoom. Besides, if Google says it's not ready then it's probably best to wait. The ROMS that we have now rock and I'm sure we're no where near close to engineering those to their fullest potential.
Are you kidding... Licenses be damned Google =/.
Darn, I was hoping for some honeycomb goodness.
justauser said:
Google says they aren't releasing Honeycomb source. Not sure how this fits with GPL, but show that "open" doesn't mean the same thing to them as to the rest of us.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
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Click to collapse
Honest question: are you a developer? Because if they DID release it in it's current state, there'd be 5x more threads from developers complaining about its quality. Just because your product is ready for large companies to use doesn't mean it's also ready for the average Joe.
But let's throw logic aside and say that Google is secretly plotting against open source.
This does not make me happy!
While disappointing it's not a HUGE downer for me. Was quite unimpressed when I played with Honeycomb on a Xoom. Maybe I'm to used to Android 2.X but although prettier it's functionality left a bit to be desired.
You think our devs wouldn't love to have Honeycomb AOSP available with the correct drivers from Nvidia? They would have a field day, and it would be working (in an alpha phase) within a couple weeks i'm very sure. We have plenty of capable devs here...
Who do you think fixes the screw-ups of the big manufacturers??
That does suck. My gut feeling is...google wasn't comfortable or ready to release honeycomb but was pressured because of the release of the ipad 2 or google wants the xoom to be the only honeycomb tablet around for a little while longer to hopefully revive its diminishing mystique.
I am genuinely pissed after they postponed the ICS event because I felt like that would be the infuses' time to get current with its OS. Maybe I'm venting my frustration a bit but 500K+ devices are turned on per day(at least for the next few months). I see that version pie chart and Froyo is still number 1 despite GB releasing roughly 10 months ago(not to mention a new version is weeks from releasing) . It's exactly why I come here.
I would also like to point out that the Fragmentation also causes what I like to call a popularity contest. Yes you have a crap ton of device options but guess what the carriers and manufacturer are making sure the cash cows are first in line. Do you think they have as many engineers/developers working with the ChaCha as they do on sgs2? Hell no
Why is Google shooting themselves in the foot in staying current? Why on earth haven't they sat down with the phone manufacturers and hammered out some sort of standard to speed up adoption of new OS?
Android has a wide array of devices and that makes them unique and better than the competition by offering choice.
I understand that the burden of keeping up to speed primarily falls to the manufacturer/carriers which blows for us. The maker/google contract states the carrier only has update the device for 18 months. The definition and or frequency of an update is obscure at best.
I don't even want to guess how much money is being wasted on development overlapping costs because of the hodgepodge of devices. I tried to find out exactly how many hardware devices are currently supported. I found a list of everything but no summary I didn't feel like counting the but a good estimate is 350 + worldwide.
I understand the development life cycle as well as a hardware life-cycle. I fail to understand why integration of an update takes longer than one quarter to apply.
Google develops tests and releases system updates. The manufacturers takes that update and tests it with their bull**** on top (IE touch wiz and sense) then they test on devices.
Carriers finally now test the update, certify it, and push to users(never pushed at one time because they would never risk any downtime or damage to their network).
Wtf google step your game up and reduce the impact of Fragmentation because its only going to get worse and worse.
I'm the kind of device user that makes a well informed decision and won't get a new device until it breaks or I lose it(wow thinking about it I really am horrible with phones).
I have had this phone since it came out in April and I love it (I left it in a cab during the first 2 weeks I had it but was able to get my replacement soon after). Basically I'm a day one Adopter I had my original rooted and rom'd. It drastically improved the general usability of the phone. I decided to wait to mod the phone until I got the official gb to see what it could bring to the table. I really like the one click update with no issues but my hand has been forced. My device has been becoming noticeably slower and i find myself pulling the battery at least once every 2 days. To use it as a phone like it was intended I need to port to a mod. The
Thank you developers for implementing what the billion dollar corporations could not in literally 1/10 of the time.
Sorry if I ranted I'm pissed and there's no way I'm going down to wallstreet lol I'm lazy.
Jason
Note: I also read that it could reach nearly 1 million devices a day by the end of Oct/Nov.
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Trust me I understand your frustration! According to google ICS was supposed to be that game changing release but honestly marketing is what is stopping companies from unifying. A majority of people who get an Android device don't know what the hell to do with it, how it works, or in the most part don't care (or at least don't seem to understand the difference between froyo and GB) they just want a functioning
phone. Then comes ios, that's why it's so popular.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium
I do venture to say that android developers are hurting as well with having to unnecessarily cater to multiple versions of the same OS. I was under the impression that ICS was that as well and will be a step in that direction. Once again how long will that take to push out to consumers? Are we supposed to wait until then? Google just needs to grow some balls and steer the proverbial green bull by the horns before the amount of devices becomes the reason we dont run with the bulls anymore.
jasonk1229 said:
I do venture to say that android developers are hurting as well with having to unnecessarily cater to multiple versions of the same OS. I was under the impression that ICS was that as well and will be a step in that direction. Once again how long will that take to push out to consumers? Are we supposed to wait until then? Google just needs to grow some balls and steer the proverbial green bull by the horns before the amount of devices becomes the reason we dont run with the bulls anymore.
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Quite frankly your frustration (and mine) is backed by the dev community; to atleast some extent. Although, I still believe google saw the bright green money tree right above their noses and since then, can not let go of the smell! In other words, there wont' be a solution in the near future.
Android has become more like Linux in terms of fragmentation!
diablo009 said:
Android has become more like Linux in terms of fragmentation!
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I couldn't name to you all the releases that are out there
Yes I love my Infuse but Fragmentation really move my temper gauge over the top. Still loving the infuse 4g screen, but the apps almost all force close error, and my facebook app sometime does not notify me on the notifiction bar and so is textfree app, i am really getting frustrated even yahoo a very big company the video call is a mess, i am in the edge of going back to iPhone which is not my choice, but google make this on OS, stop fragmentation.
spirikitik said:
Yes I love my Infuse but Fragmentation really move my temper gauge over the top. Still loving the infuse 4g screen, but the apps almost all force close error, and my facebook app sometime does not notify me on the notifiction bar and so is textfree app, i am really getting frustrated even yahoo a very big company the video call is a mess, i am in the edge of going back to iPhone which is not my choice, but google make this on OS, stop fragmentation.
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Are you running a custom rom, kernel, radio, are you OC/UV?
Any and all of these things can and will give you instability. I had a cm7 theme that kept crashing the system on my backflip.
The only way to do away with MOST not all issues is to live in "the box".
Android fragmentation is a big problem.
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
MikeyMike01 said:
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
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Lol. By the ICS is out on a couple phones he would've switched to a different phone.
MikeyMike01 said:
Android fragmentation is a big problem.
You're kidding yourself if you think the Infuse will ever get an update to ICS.
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There comes devs who may port it (hopefully). Ics is supposed to get rid of the fragmentation, and maybegoogle has something up there sleeve to combine all phones and most get ics who knows. Google and Sammy have just hired cynagen (sorry bad speling) and other major devs. They may just help figure out this problem, where they are actually smart and put this into consideration.
I want my freakin Gingerbread! Stupid fragmentation! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Kevinr678 said:
I want my freakin Gingerbread! Stupid fragmentation! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
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Really missing my old HTC phones right now. Hell, one official rom could be easily ported over to like six others with those phones. Samsung has fantastic hardware but HTC dev support is superior.
Sent from my Samsung Infuse
slapshot30 said:
Really missing my old HTC phones right now. Hell, one official rom could be easily ported over to like six others with those phones. Samsung has fantastic hardware but HTC dev support is superior.
Sent from my Samsung Infuse
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Completely agreed. Phone's that will never officially have things like Sense 3.5 have it, and the same with firmwares. I do love my Samsung though.
Ryanscool said:
There comes devs who may port it (hopefully). Ics is supposed to get rid of the fragmentation, and maybegoogle has something up there sleeve to combine all phones and most get ics who knows. Google and Sammy have just hired cynagen (sorry bad speling) and other major devs. They may just help figure out this problem, where they are actually smart and put this into consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Problem is that every phone has vendor-proprietary bits to handle specific hardware support that aren't portable. The Apache license of the Android userland stack makes this possible. Also the ability to have proprietary modules loaded by the kernel doesn't help - for example the FSR and RFS drivers in the Infuse. The same reason you'll likely never see ICS for the Infuse is the same reason you didn't see CM7 until Rogers Gingerbread dropped. (It existed, but it was in a barely usable state until the vendor-proprietary stuff from Rogers GB could get pulled in.)
The good news is that I think Google is forcing vendors to "play nicer" as far as the low-level vendor-proprietary code in order to make AOSP bringups easier. They enforced a LOT of standardization with Honeycomb - the question is can they keep that going with ICS without witholding source like with HC? I think that by exercising tighter control over Google Apps licensing they can.
The Galaxy S II is a hint of things to come - while it still has vendor-proprietary libraries in the userland stack, it has zero closed-source components in the kernel, unlike previous Samsungs.
Motivation and $.
my opinion only...but, phone carriers have no motivation* to update the o.s. of phones already sold.
Just a few random thoughts...
1. Limited $ to be made from you (the customer waiting for an upgrade)
....a. sale of the device is already made.
....b. buyer is already locked into a long-term contract.
2. they are a phone company not a software company...thus any software developers they might have are probably focused on future sales and testing.
3. they don't make money releasing updates to already sold phones.
4. support staff would have to be pretty good size.
I wonder if the phone providers keep software upgrade staff or do they contract that out??? say to the phone manufacture (i.e. samsung, htc)? I have no idea.
(I am assuming it's the phone carriers who are the primary cause of delays in releasing software updates...not necessarily the
* what's more important to them? Future repeat customers due to good service OR simply getting them locked into longterm service contracts? Obviously point 2.
I wish fragmentation was decreased to that of the IBM compatibe market. (Am I the only one that still calls them that?)
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Interesting point I would have to say they contract the work out to upgrade versions. If they haven't already I wouldn't be surprised to see full teams being hired as android becomes more permanent.
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Great post
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The debate continues on TechCrunch:
http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/27/charted-android-fragmentation/
Will the HTC Tropy get upgraded to WP8? Will Verizon release new WP8 devices? It sure doesn't seem promising but if you know otherwise, please share.
I don't know if MS has made any promises about "WP8" (which may or may not be the next significant update; my guess is on "not" though). However, it'll still be within contract, so I suspect they will provide the upgrade.
There is no way to tell. It's too early. No final numbers or anything have been said on WP8 to know for sure. All they have listed is a few features, nothing more.
All the first gen WP7 devices are pretty much the same when it comes to Horsepower (CPU/Graphics), some have better screens, some have a few other chips but, internaly for speed and video performace they are pretty much all the same.
What I am getting at is, If MS does not upgrade the Trophy, you might as well forget any first gen devices. If 1 will get it, they all will get it(some later than others but, they all will)
As for Verizon getting a WP8 device, again, WAY too early to tell. Verizon said they were interested in LTE WP7 devices, so there is interest, by the time WP8 comes out, LTE coverage for VZW will be really good. So I would almost say Yes that they will have one, unless there is MAJOR reason for them not to.
SO my answer to both questions is not something you want to hear but, Maybe