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This is just a PSA to all you vicious Android fanboys on this forum that hound anyone who asks the question "what phone should I get", especially when one of those options includes an iOS device or a WP7 device.
So let me get this started. I love Android. But Android is not perfect. Take a deep breath, and say it with me again, out loud.
"Android is not perfect." Was that too hard? If so the following explanation is for you.
Ever since Android first came out, people were hailing it as the iPhone killer. But in reality? It's really not. It may be getting there, and may be getting there quickly, but that's not that point.
It may be a surprise to many of you, but there are actually other human beings outside of XDA that use smartphones. Human beings that are not interested in rooting their phones or spending a lot of time completely customizing them or pushing them to the limit. These human beings want their phones to work when they need them, and that's all. Whether these phones are iOS, Android, or Windows Mobile/7 phones is completely irrelevant to them.
Except, it actually is. But see, not in the way most of you seem to think it is.
People shop for phones nowadays because the have an end they need to reach and they need the means to get to that end. Whether it's something as simple as checking an email message or quenching a thirst to play a game, they take into consideration what is the quickest, most hassle-free way to do this. This requirement is not because they are stupid. Most XDA users seem to think that anyone off XDA just buys iPhones because they are uneducated about "the true power of Android" and all that jazz. Guess what? That's not the case.
Yes. Here at XDA, we can do a lot with our phones. We root them, we build custom ROMs for them, we use features that were locked before, or get versions of our OS that aren't out yet.
But please be damn sure you understand that we are the minority. We will always be the minority. Your experience here doesn't define the mobile landscape, it only improves your personal experience with your phone. Just because you took a few hours to root your phone, find the perfect custom ROM, and settle down with it doesn't make the average Joe who just bought an iPhone (because it does what he wants easily and has all the apps he likes) a stupid user.
Here is the meat of this newsflash; Android wouldn't be here if it wasn't for iOS. (Going further, iOS wouldn't be there without Windows Mobile, and etc etc etc until we reached the very first man who asked 'why can't I see my email from my phone'). Apple took a chance on what people wanted, and realized they had something. They built an OS that was based on the ideals of OS X; simple, straight-forward, good looking, and well received. And so began the App and Data revolution. All of a sudden, the idea of having mobile data became real. These wonderful delicious little things called "apps" made the mobile world much more exciting than it had even been before. And so Apple hit a goldmine, and the mobile landscape had been painted. These apps were well-designed, fun, informative, useful, and people liked them so much, they started to buy paid apps. Apple knows how to market to people, and there success showed.
So then. Android.
Android was birthed out of the idea that Google could cash in on this app world. You may think the intentions were noble, with the idea that it was some pipe dream in the same way linux was; completely open mobile platform. After all, if Apple could have the success with a closed system, Google obviously could rock the world with an open one.
But it's not. Android, or at least what most people come to think of as Android these days, is not "open". It's open to phone manufacturers, and carriers, but that's it. It' snot open to the end user. Why else do we have locked down features, closed-source OEM skins that hinder future firmware upgrades? Why else do we have carrier-controlled Market restrictions? Why do some phones not ship with developer tools, or the ability to install from unknown sources?
Let me be frank. I love Android, but Android is a mess. It's a mess of a bunch of wonderful ideas that would have shined like nothing else in the perfect world, but a mess that didn't anticipate a simple fact; businesses like to make money.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have freedom with Android. Every little part of it has a restriction we need to bypass. Do you buy an expensive high end phone, or a cheaper low-end phone? Will you still be able to play those cool games on that low end phone? Will it get software updates? Is it safe from malware? Buying an Android phone has become the same as trying to buy a Windows PC.
It suffers from the same problem that Microsoft does when compared to Apple's line of computers. Apple builds its hardware AND its software, so they interface with complete precision and function. People with iPhones don't need to worry about security updates, or whether their phone will be obsolete. Apple may release a new phone every year, but the point is that those phones are made to last, both in terms of hardware and software. They even went the next step further and made the iPod touch, which gave phone users who weren't ready for smartphones a taste of what it was like.
My Sprint Hero came out on October 11th, 2009. The iPhone 3GS came out in June of the same year. Both were priced around the same amount, but what stands out to me the most when I think back to when I tested both that year? The fact it took Google this long to make an operating system which took ages to mature enough to be used by HTC to make a phone that STILL could not even give me a smooth web browser, something that the very first iPhone was able to do. Games on the Hero sucked in comparison to the 3D games that were playable on the iPhone.
Now then, Android smartphone hardware has advanced to a significant level, but the point of this whole rant is that Google has always been following in Apple's footsteps in the mobile world, and it's going to be that way for some time.
Be a bit humble about the begginings of Android and what it's become, and for f***'s sake, be a bit mature than just saying "LOLOLOL APPLE SUCKS GG GET ANDROID".
Because it's the rest of the world outside of XDA that defines the success of these mobile platforms, because I hate to say this, but you and I are not part of that outside world of mobile phone users, and we never will be.
The truth is, no one can really say what the "perfect" mobile OS is. All we can do is say what works best for us or what we prefer, but when we state it as fact, as though it's not arguable, that's when we become the fanboys that we so dearly hate. Just keep that in mind.
Opinions welcome, fanboyism from either side not wanted at all. Congrats on finishing this post.
Excellent post. Would read again.
Great things said there. I can see a point in it. But still, I don't either see Ios higher as Android since Ios is a mess too. Let me just take this simple statement. Music on a Ipod/Iphone needs to be converted from the computer to the device, you can't random download a song(on the device) from Internet and play it. Same as the file exploring.. if you want to search for a file, you find a file in some folder like: im/af/on/ar/qr, or just some folders which are messy, and the file types are unknown for the computer. All those small things give me the excuse to stay at Windows Mobile. Simply cause we can download music files and play it, simply cause there is great development on it, simply cause it can be customized how we want it.
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
d12unk13astard said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Good job. That must have taken some serious thought to come up with.
This is something I 100% agree with.
When I had a Samsung Moment, I had problems galore with it. Keyboard wouldn't type, horrible support, and the big network lockup. Mind you, a network lockup where you can't call out to anyone is against FCC laws. But just to get some type of damn support for the thing, I almost had to root it. And I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have to depend on an online community for support for a phone when the carrier and manufacturer of the phone should be doing that. What the hell is the point in buying the phone and paying damn near $70 a month if I can't use the damn thing?
Let's also talk about performance of the Moment and how unoptimized it was. The Moment uses the same SoC found in the Iphone 2g, and 3g. The only difference, stock 2g and 3g SoC is 600 mhz, clocked down to about 422 mhz for battery, while the Moment was 800 mhz. Both arm11 cpu cores. The Iphone 2g and 3g despite having almost half the clocked frequency of the Moment, was smoother and had actual hardware support and acceleration. Even this day, Samsung still does not have proper hardware support for the SoC being used in the Moment, Intercept, Transform, Spica, etc etc.
If done right, Android is pretty awesome I'll admit. But if I want a phone to work, I'll get something that actually works.
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
gosualex said:
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
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Good understanding
I love android because I love to tinker. Nothing could ever change my mind short of the os aging. I will say this flaws or not I refuse to give apple my money. So it's either wp7 or android.
My words to live buy if I can't hack it I don't want it. Just my 2cents
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium Apps
I would agree iPhones support is a lot longer no network changes added, updates can brick the phones though.
Android need some love. Fragmentation. Networks slow to update. Ui 's being to sluggish to update the phone to higher levels.
All android phones should be aosp no extras from makers or networks.
Love my cm7/miui.us phone but most people would want to flash it or know how to. They would just think might as well get an iPhone.
Just my feelings. I own apple computers. Custom built pcs android phones had iPhones I still use an iPod touch in the kitchen as you can get the best speaker docks for them. Use what works best for the situation.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Android security warning !!
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
-gps location
-contacts
-logs
-screenshots
-hidden camerashots
-sms/mms
-emails
-photos
-etc
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS IS FACT !!!
There was a test in germany, where a developer made a app with all the rights to do the things above and send them hidden in the backround to a specified server to that he had access. So he could read and see all the things above and it was even updating immidiatly after a new sms or something came in and the testuser who installed it had no clue at all and was shocked when they told it to her.
The App itself was just making photos with a black censor stripe in the eyes and it seemed that it never could do that, but all the real action is going on in the backround.
By the way, he sayd it was very easy and many apps could do that and most of them really do that.
And what I know, many of you don't know or don't care and spread all your information to some companys that like to have them alot. And they allways want more.
Maybe you should spread this information by quoting this post or linking to it, because many people don't like to be ripped of their information.
Or do you like it, when someone is standing close to you and listens all what you say to your friends, when you have a private conversation ? I think not!
check out my signature also.
and be safe!
edit: i think i should post this as a new thread!
Great post, good read!!
Hard to say any mobile OS is perfect. But the world of mobile OS is developing quickly in recent years.
Haven't played extensively with Android and IOS. Currenly, I still think IOS is more polish. Android definitely have a lot of features and I am looking forward to where they take the OS to in the future. It seems like it's an OS that has a lot of support and has had to "grow up" really rapidly.
I actually agrer with everything in this post. Fact is the best technology in the world is technology that is stable, works, and allows the user to complete what ever task is needed.
Last night it was decided my wife and I are switching to verizon why? Cause the wife wants IOS and I am more partial to android and BB and thats the only carrier that has all 3.
Now to add on what was already said I think google needs to pick one manufacture purchase them then do exactly what apple does marry the hardware amd software together to get rid of what can be a problematic OS simply cause with some manufactures android is worse then on others.
Sent from my SPH-P100 using XDA App
(•.•) said:
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
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You give apps on an iphone or WM phone permissions to do these things too right, so this is a more general problem in the new mobile world...
BTW, I like you're post LiquidSolstice, you could almost call it a fact, it's not that the one is better than the other. It's just that they are different and the majority of people likes easy and simple...
I agree with alot of what LS mentions in the first post. My wife is one of those who could really care less about rooting, overclocking, mem management, or even what version of Android she is using for that matter. She just wants to be able to send that text without the keyboard "hicupping", or to make that phone call without the dialer lagging, etc. I like Android, but I don't like Google's.. well let's say "less than kosher" business practices and corporate involvements. I think a big point to remember is that there will always be people like us that get a huge kick out of toying with electronics. For some, it's a hobby, for others, a career. With that being said, there will also always be those doofies that get on sites like this one and annoy the living crap out of you. Everything needs to be taken in stride, and though there are those who appear to be clueless on a subject, always remember that we all have to learn somehow. Knowledge is not obtained through osmosis.
Android feels like a permanent beta. I prefer iOS for simple tasks plusSbsettings is unmatched. WP7 seems more like a feature phone, it doesn't tell you 'I'm smart.'
I mostly agree
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
tsaxda said:
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
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Well, carrier "bloat" --I put that in quotes because the current three major skins bring much needed features to Android (whether or not the execution is done well or not is a different argument)-- isn't quite what's killing it, it's the time spent optimizing the hardware for Android.
Android gets slapped on as many devices as possible and then sold as a low end affordable smartphone, and that's the issue, but that's the essence of Android at the same time.
ZeGuitarist said:
Excellent post. Would read again.
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+1 Outstanding post. Completely agree.
http://www.law360.com/technology/articles/258771/lg-struck-with-class-action-over-smartphone-defects . credit to brooklyng2x over on lgforum for finding it.
Would be nice if you didn't have to sign up with a website in order to get on board with the CAL.
The link isn't working for me
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
how about this pdf? http://articles.law360.s3.amazonaws...um-6-dm_id-5305026-doc_num-1-pdf_header-2.pdf
He is right! Somebody had to do it! LG deserves it!
Well now LG won't give us GB at all lol they're probably saying, "Well here's the lawsuit, now we don't have to work on GB anymore."
this needed to be done, this isnt the first time lg has had a class action lawsuit. They have had one for their refrigerators.
nyyankees3511 said:
how about this pdf? http://articles.law360.s3.amazonaws...um-6-dm_id-5305026-doc_num-1-pdf_header-2.pdf
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Click to collapse
Thank you kind sir!
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA Premium App
A class action lawsuit is a total and complete waste of time and a mis-use of a system that is already corrupt. Rather than attempt to get your share of $4.30 which is what the end result will be for participants just ride it out and either flash a working ROM or wait for the update.
I KNOW...WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE WHINING AND CRYING BEFORE.....I shouldn't have to flash a custom ROM, It's been since April blah blah blah...Ever heard the saying Buyer Beware. If you purchase the first run of damn near ANYTHING other than food or clothing there will ALMOST always be some type of bug to be worked out. And I don't wanna hear "Well I bought mine in June so it's not first run". IT IS!
Deal with it, grow up and let our courts handle more pressing issues other than your cell phone wont work. Hell, I flashed a custom ROM and then out of the blue am having re-boot issues. Maybe I should call Barry Obama and see if he can get me a replacement.
Have a great day!
I think more of us are pissed at the run around, lack of communication, broken promises, and now dead silence. Im sure none of us are looking for the end settlement but hoping this wakes lg up and keeps them in touch with us and not feed us BS.
nyyankees3511 said:
I think more of us are pissed at the run around, lack of communication, broken promises, and now dead silence. Im sure none of us are looking for the end settlement but hoping this wakes lg up and keeps them in touch with us and not feed us BS.
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well said.
Like I said in other thread: Some people can't see past their own nose.
I knew I held onto my G2X for a reason...
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
mahgninnuc93 said:
A class action lawsuit is a total and complete waste of time and a mis-use of a system that is already corrupt. Rather than attempt to get your share of $4.30 which is what the end result will be for participants just ride it out and either flash a working ROM or wait for the update.
I KNOW...WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE WHINING AND CRYING BEFORE.....I shouldn't have to flash a custom ROM, It's been since April blah blah blah...Ever heard the saying Buyer Beware. If you purchase the first run of damn near ANYTHING other than food or clothing there will ALMOST always be some type of bug to be worked out. And I don't wanna hear "Well I bought mine in June so it's not first run". IT IS!
Deal with it, grow up and let our courts handle more pressing issues other than your cell phone wont work. Hell, I flashed a custom ROM and then out of the blue am having re-boot issues. Maybe I should call Barry Obama and see if he can get me a replacement.
Have a great day!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly was this the "first run" of? A smartphone? Definitely not. A smartphone running Android? Not that either. A device with a nvidia Tegra 2 processor? Nope. I'll admit that there are a lot of devices and products that have problems with them at first -- almost all of them actually. This is beyond normal though, and there's no denying that. As far as the court system goes, the whole world is corrupt, get used to it.
nyyankees3511 said:
I think more of us are pissed at the run around, lack of communication, broken promises, and now dead silence. Im sure none of us are looking for the end settlement but hoping this wakes lg up and keeps them in touch with us and not feed us BS.
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Click to collapse
I appreciate that. But the bottom line in something like this is, now that a suit has been filed it only leads them to want to drag their feet.
I appreciate the frustration by the lack of communication. I am there as well. But I guess some of us look as the glass half full rather than the glass half empty
baldwinguy77 said:
What exactly was this the "first run" of? A smartphone? Definitely not. A smartphone running Android? Not that either. A device with a nvidia Tegra 2 processor? Nope. I'll admit that there are a lot of devices and products that have problems with them at first -- almost all of them actually. This is beyond normal though, and there's no denying that. As far as the court system goes, the whole world is corrupt, get used to it.
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It's the first run of this phone is it not? Yep sure is. I went through these issues with the original iPhone release as well. Since it was the only phone Apple released they were able to focus resources on it solely. LG, like most companies is chasing the $$ and therefore spreading themselves way too thin. I"m not making excuses but it's the reality of it all.
And yep, I know about the corruptness of the system. My brother is a personal injury attorney, I see it all the time.
mahgninnuc93 said:
I appreciate that. But the bottom line in something like this is, now that a suit has been filed it only leads them to want to drag their feet.
I appreciate the frustration by the lack of communication. I am there as well. But I guess some of us look as the glass half full rather than the glass half empty
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I think you give this more credit than it actually has. LG won't even notice something like this until it makes the run of the legal system waiting periods, response times, etc.
At best, you might see a more controlled response publicly from LG. You might see information dry up on support forums, from LG as they control responses and limit anything that could be used against them. But for development, the biggest hurdle in GB was not bugs on the G2x. As you saw recently, LG released or will soon release 2 GB handsets. This was most likely the biggest hurdle in G2x updates. Having a single LG wide GB story, then customize to individual handset. It makes no sense to think that LG would customize GB for a released handset, prior to insuring the GB release for new handsets was in place.
The day a finalized version of a LG GB os was in place company wide, thats when the porting to G2x, with any fixes, started. The work became integrating the fixes in to the GB update.
Remember, these guys are into making money, not updating for free.
I've read somewhere on this forum about speculation about LG pulling the G2x over marketing concerns in competition with the SEnsation. This does make some sense. LG will never outsell HTC. But in an end of summer market, post Sensation, a GB G2x might make a bigger splash NONE of the signs point to abandonment. Legally they can't do that. But signs do point to repositioning of a product.
I think in the rush to market to be the first Dual Core handset, LG lost, by being first.
just my opinion...
Well, as I just posted at LGs forum, I just want a new sealed updated phone. That's been one of my biggest gripes, I never get a working phone and my end result is a used scratched refurbished one without a matching box? Still with no update to boot. And I'm in WAY better shape than some customers, 'cause I have one that works.....for now.
Patently unfair.
mahgninnuc93 said:
A class action lawsuit is a total and complete waste of time and a mis-use of a system that is already corrupt. Rather than attempt to get your share of $4.30 which is what the end result will be for participants just ride it out and either flash a working ROM or wait for the update.
I KNOW...WE HAVE ALL HEARD THE WHINING AND CRYING BEFORE.....I shouldn't have to flash a custom ROM, It's been since April blah blah blah...Ever heard the saying Buyer Beware. If you purchase the first run of damn near ANYTHING other than food or clothing there will ALMOST always be some type of bug to be worked out. And I don't wanna hear "Well I bought mine in June so it's not first run". IT IS!
Deal with it, grow up and let our courts handle more pressing issues other than your cell phone wont work. Hell, I flashed a custom ROM and then out of the blue am having re-boot issues. Maybe I should call Barry Obama and see if he can get me a replacement.
Have a great day!
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Click to collapse
The problem is people's willingness to accept the nonsense. If the consumer doesn't complant about these issues, these companies will just get away with it. I don't know about you, but I am tried of just getting defective phones, I exchange it three times and same problem, then politely ask them for a full refund and was refused, saying all they can do is repair it or exchange it for the same model then wrote a letter to their head corporate offices and haven't heard back. LG don't care, they made their money.
jrwingate6 said:
I knew I held onto my G2X for a reason...
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA Premium App
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You don't have to own the phone anymore, you just have to have owned it during the period outlined in complaint. Maybe I'll recoup some of my costs for moving to AT&T.
This is great news.
My view is a bit different. There are defects about a phone I can deal with (ie. backlight bleeding, gps/wifi) but when a phone can't operate as a phone, that draws the line.
The random reboots are the most annoying thing, and some of which don't ever reboot (requires a battery pull to get it working again).
This purchase has given me a very sour taste in my mouth for not only LG and their future products but also T-mobile's sub-par involvement in assisting customers.
I'm beyond the point of going to another carrier, since plans like the one I'm on no longer exist for this price. So unless T-mobile pulls through, I'll say screw the cell-phone market altogether.
http://www.carrieriq.com/index.htm
I just heard about this and can't believe how little we know we are being spied on. Is this installed on the sensation? If so are there any ROMS which remove it? Am I just digging up old news or what does everybody else know about this?
smockpuv said:
http://www.carrieriq.com/index.htm
I just heard about this and can't believe how little we know we are being spied on. Is this installed on the sensation? If so are there any ROMS which remove it? Am I just digging up old news or what does everybody else know about this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Old news.
No this is not old news at all. This subject is still being looked into and things are coming to light about it more and more. Yes this is very much on the Sensation. Me personally I am glad someone started a thread on it as it is something I feel everyone should be concerned with.
If you want to learn more about it just go to the XDA Portal and type in a search for Carrier IQ, CIQ, or just IQ and you will see there has been several stories in the portal about it and the dev that is trying to bring all of this CIQ BS into the view of the masses.
Also I have not looked to see but I imagen that there is some custom ROMs for the Sensation that has the CIQ removed from it. I beleive any of the CM7 based ROMs do not have it and it may be more you will just have to read the first posts in the thread by the chef that cooked the ROM.
T-Macgnolia said:
No this is not old news at all. This subnet t is still being looked into and things are coming to light about it more and more. Yes this is very much on the Sensation. Me personally I am glad someone started a thread on it as it is something I feel everyone should be concerned with.
If you want to learn more about it just go to the XDA Portal and type in a search for Carrier IQ, CIQ, or just IQ and you will see there has been several stories in the portal about it and the dev that is Beloit.g to bring all of this CIQ BS into the view of the masses.
Also I have not looked to see but I imagen that there is some custom ROMs for the Sensation that has the CIQ removed from it. I beleive any of the CM7 based ROMs do not have it and it may be more you will just have to read the first posts in the thread by the chef that cooked the ROM.
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Click to collapse
Hi,
I found that ROM CLEANER does the business of removing all the offending crap.
Worth looking into.
malybru said:
Hi,
I found that ROM CLEANER does the business of removing all the offending crap.
Worth looking into.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ROM just cleans bloatware and other things in HTC Sense to help the ROM run smoother. All devices have this CIQ on them, it is not an app but several things that are hidden deep in the ROM and has to be cooked out of the ROM. ASOP ROMs do not have it. Go read this article by azrienoch on it. Make sure to click on the links in the article too then you will have a better understanding of what I mean. You will also see why it is such a big deal.
Update to the current Carrier IQ fiasco with video proof
http://m.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/11/secret-software-logging-video/
Separate link for the youtube video for easier access.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T17XQI_AYNo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
In the T-Mobile galaxy s 2 forums the carrier IQ the is in the kernel is that where it is in sensation? I can't find any of the know names in my wife's phone.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
i just had the word with the guy who made the video and he told me that this only affect u.s.a people and this doesn't affect anyone living in eurpoe so if you live in uk, ireland and other part of eurpoe than you are fine.
I'm in the US and i read this over and over, and to be honest i can give to giggles of a squirting crap bout this, everyone takes this out of proportion and think its end of the world cause something in there is loggin your keys,
ITS IN EVERYTHING!! get over it already, its in your game consoles, in your laptops, in your PCS, just deal with it nothing you can do or say will change this
and lot of you will say no its not, BUT IT IS! think bout all the times your send a report of a crash on a pc or anything, deeping read ToS on consoles all have tracker/logger
ilostchild said:
I'm in the US and i read this over and over, and to be honest i can give to giggles of a squirting crap bout this, everyone takes this out of proportion and think its end of the world cause something in there is loggin your keys,
ITS IN EVERYTHING!! get over it already, its in your game consoles, in your laptops, in your PCS, just deal with it nothing you can do or say will change this
and lot of you will say no its not, BUT IT IS! think bout all the times your send a report of a crash on a pc or anything, deeping read ToS on consoles all have tracker/logger
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Click to collapse
So, because tracking software is being put on many devices we use every day, we should not worry about it?
Perhaps if consumers were made more aware of things like this, they could stem the tide of invasive technology.
Sent from my Sensation using xda premium
ilostchild said:
I'm in the US and i read this over and over, and to be honest i can give to giggles of a squirting crap bout this, everyone takes this out of proportion and think its end of the world cause something in there is loggin your keys,
ITS IN EVERYTHING!! get over it already, its in your game consoles, in your laptops, in your PCS, just deal with it nothing you can do or say will change this
and lot of you will say no its not, BUT IT IS! think bout all the times your send a report of a crash on a pc or anything, deeping read ToS on consoles all have tracker/logger
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CIQ is definitely a whole new species of logging software, put onto your device by your friendly network operator.
I dare to say that there is absolutely no comparable spying software case so far. If you´d have fully studied about the software this thread is mentioning, you most probably would not have written your statement.
A key logger which records *everything* you type without encryption? A key logger which reads your SMS/test message even before you read it? Come on. This kind of stuff is *definitely" not "in everything". It may be in all network operator subsidized mobile phones (not only Android, but also Nokia and Blackberry affected) in the USA - but definitely not here in Europe.
Here, we actually have laws against such software - especially if it´s distributed by large organizations like network operators, this could result in multi-billion dollar fines. People here in Europe are not wiser, but they tend to fight a bit more against "big brother" who might be "watching you".
tictac0566 said:
CIQ is definitely a whole new species of logging software, put onto your device by your friendly network operator.
I dare to say that there is absolutely no comparable spying software case so far. If you´d have fully studied about the software this thread is mentioning, you most probably would not have written your statement.
A key logger which records *everything* you type without encryption? A key logger which reads your SMS/test message even before you read it? Come on. This kind of stuff is *definitely" not "in everything". It may be in all network operator subsidized mobile phones (not only Android, but also Nokia and Blackberry affected) in the USA - but definitely not here in Europe.
Here, we actually have laws against such software - especially if it´s distributed by large organizations like network operators, this could result in multi-billion dollar fines. People here in Europe are not wiser, but they tend to fight a bit more against "big brother" who might be "watching you".
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i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
ilostchild said:
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
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I wonder how this affects the speed and responsiveness of the phone's OS?
ilostchild said:
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
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Click to collapse
Yes that is true what you said but most people already know that cops can get your records from a phone company with a search warrant depending on how long that company keeps those records.
This is deferent, a third party collecting all information of what you do on your phone without your consent or knowledge is wrong. This company is also not the government so what right do they have without your consent.
Yes on a console, a PC, and1st and 2nd party apps on your phone you give consent for them to use various monitoring techniques but you have a choice, here with carrier IQ you are not giving that choice it is there and you have to use a crowbar to get it out of your phone.
I'm no fanatic but I do believe in the constitution. It is your right to give away your privacy but it is not for someone else to take it away from you.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
ilostchild said:
i know what it does, and i still stand on my statement, as you and i type every letter on our keyboard it si being key logged to thats the sad truth of this an everything, no matter how you look or want to make aware to anyone its still exist and as technology grows so will this.. so either cry and complain bout it everytime some like this comes up or just say i know the fact im being watched but what else more can i do.. cause there is nothing you can do.. your normal house phones are being logged, not lot know this but there is KEY words that if you say in a conversation it picks up and sends a alert to the proper authorities..
its something to look and jus get over...
Also think bout it, when something goes truly bad, say a murder uses a phone officials can pick up they logging of calls and texts and read them back, so this loggin has been around for awhile so i dont understand why its becoming sucha big deal when its been around
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Click to collapse
You keep saying it is nothing you can do about it, well you could not be more wrong. You can take and S-off your device, unlock your device, root, or what ever the proper method is for your particular device to be able to flash a custom recovery. Then simple download and flash any AOSP ROM. This will give you a device without CIQ.
Now you must not have read the official withdraw of the S&D letter to TrevE that IQ posted a link to on their website. Go yo the XDA Portal and have a look a the latest article by orb3000. Obviously the message has gotten to IQ and I would say more than likely the Carriers. Yeah some say that the power users are a small group but it is a group with great power. When the people that a large force in building enthusiasm for devices and OS's speak out against something that they do not like, people tend to listen. Therefore it has a large chance of affecting sales, new contract signings, and contract renewals.
This whole attitude of people not being able to do anything about something people consider wrong, is such a epic fail. I mean if no one never tries to bring change to something then yeah sure nothing will happen. And the powers that be gains that much more control. But luckily people are starting to get tired of never having change and are starting to do something about this messed up world of ours.
Last thing, if you think this is a simple logging system. Again you could be more wrong. This CIQ has full access to your device, as well as full rights. It can not be killed, forced close, or uninstall. I will not go into any further details, but this is far from what IQ and the carriers want you to think it is.
Shery4life said:
i just had the word with the guy who made the video and he told me that this only affect u.s.a people and this doesn't affect anyone living in eurpoe so if you live in uk, ireland and other part of eurpoe than you are fine.
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Carrier is a global company. The company does have offices in London...
http://www.carrieriq.com/company/index.htm
And under the heading "About Carrier IQ"
http://www.sys-con.com/node/1865183
So European phones may have CIQ installed depending on what the mobile provider. Something that our friends over the pond
should research.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
T-Macgnolia said:
You keep saying it is nothing you can do about it, well you could not be more wrong. You can take and S-off your device, unlock your device, root, or what ever the proper method is for your particular device to be able to flash a custom recovery. Then simple download and flash any AOSP ROM. This will give you a device without CIQ.
Now you must not have read the official withdraw of the S&D letter to TrevE that IQ posted a link to on their website. Go yo the XDA Portal and have a look a the latest article by orb3000. Obviously the message has gotten to IQ and I would say more than likely the Carriers. Yeah some say that the power users are a small group but it is a group with great power. When the people that a large force in building enthusiasm for devices and OS's speak out against something that they do not like, people tend to listen. Therefore it has a large chance of affecting sales, new contract signings, and contract renewals.
This whole attitude of people not being able to do anything about something people consider wrong, is such a epic fail. I mean if no one never tries to bring change to something then yeah sure nothing will happen. And the powers that be gains that much more control. But luckily people are starting to get tired of never having change and are starting to do something about this messed up world of ours.
Last thing, if you think this is a simple logging system. Again you could be more wrong. This CIQ has full access to your device, as well as full rights. It can not be killed, forced close, or uninstall. I will not go into any further details, but this is far from what IQ and the carriers want you to think it is.
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Click to collapse
Hi,
That is very well put.
If you sit back and do nothing, then nothing will get done.
The more people complain about this, the more something is likely to be done.
As far as the carriers are concerned, they probably think that no one knows that this stuff is even installed!
Its important to show our awareness of this situation, and complain about it.
How about Logging TestApp? I heard that this app helps you erase all the logging apps in the phone, including this one.
This issue just Made ABC news this morning
gtrplr71 said:
This issue just Made ABC news this morning
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Click to collapse
This issue made international news.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...ve-violated-wiretap-law-in-millions-of-cases/
Wow, at first i was reading this thread and had the same, "well whatever" attitude. But after just a couple of minutes googling and reading, this is really messed up. CarrierIQ has issued a cease and dismiss order against the guy in the video, along with threats to sue if he does not publicly apologize.
The short version:
Let's get Google to change the market incompatibility from "You can't have this," to "Are you sure...?" Because quite honestly why waste precious minutes downloading an APK from some unknown source that for all you know could be tempered with and wind up ****ing up your device.
The teal deer version:
There are now numerous threads regarding this issue and I think it's time we had one that was the central place for us to discuss this issue as it's too scattered about and so far all attempts at remedying the issue have been either in vain or temporary. We shouldn't have to suffer so much over something so unnecessary.
The idea is sound, sure, but its ways of going about doing so are very wrong. In the event that an app doesn't work as expected, or at least in suspicion of such, it need only be noted as a warning to the user. So instead of seeing that black bar stating that we can't have app X and have the install button disabled, we should see that same black bar but with a warning and the install button enabled irregardless.
If big brother is worried that because the app is known to have issues on our devices then they need only to disable the ability to rate the app for that specific user. But that's about it, as it's fairer to both parties involved. We shouldn't have to go through the hassle of having to have to keep looking for ways around something that only goes to further slow down progress, or downloading and installing APK files every time there's an update to our apps (some of which were paid for)!
We need to attack the disease at its source rather than treat the symptoms.
What the issue is basically is that "power" users prefer to use tweaked settings that the market doesn't like despite the fact that those same apps Google deems incompatible, when installed as APKs, actually work flawlessly.
I figured we should have this thread focus on the following issues:
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1. Have something of a Database (or at least a simple list for now) of all the apps that El Goog doesn't want us to install. Just to emphasize the issue as there are quite a bit of apps that work flawlessly and appear in the market, while others aren't (in some cases without the developer's own wishes or knowledge for that matter). And we then label them as working 100% perfectly well or buggy under conditions Y and Z.
We make the list of all apps that are known to be incompatible and actually are! So far I've not encountered a single one. And I've been using my freak device with its freaky settings for a year+ now.
2. This is something I'm still thinking about and am not 100% sure if should be done. Start a petition on Change.org and bring this to big brother's attention as he tends to ignore the little guy. In numbers there's strength.
3. Get a list of app developers who are aware of the issue and support our cause. The reason for three is because I've been in contact with one app developer who was turned down by big brother after pursuing help with this issue because they "don't provide support for custom roms." And it's OK that they don't, as it's reasonable enough. But give us the option of opting out if you think it's wise to, and opt in even if it might cause issue. We're adults for god's sake.
4. Make a list of currently available solutions to fix the so-called 'feature' while we're waiting for an actual fix.
I'll keep this post as updated as I can with the latest known and consistently updated fixes for this 'bug'. Yeah, I said it.
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So far every single app I used worked flawlessly on my I9100 running CM10 with DorimanX custom kernel. I've set the DPI to 160 and I can't imagine myself going back to anything above that. And to emphasize, I've had these setting (or at least the DPI and CM) for so long now (about a year) that I forget sometimes that I'm using something that isn't exactly 'standard', per se.
I mean, if you can live with the default dpi then that's cool, good for you. But I've had a taste of the forbidden fruit, and now I can't go back. . . .
I'm not going to start crusading just yet. First I'd like your, the community of XDA, input on this issue before we do anything. If you have any suggestions or criticism you'd like to share with us, I'd like to hear it, personally. For I may be wrong about the whole thing. Call it, lacking in confidence.
Thank you.
Reserved, just in case.
Also reserved, just in case.
Well this is fantastic. Congrats on the nerve for writing this freakishly long post. That's what I was thinking since the moment I encountered "I'm sorry, but we think this won't work as planned on your device and we deem you stupid enough to make wrong choices, so we'll just put this install button on this shelf right here, where you can't reach it" error.
However, I just said screw it, there's tons of sites where I can just download what I want without anyone questioning my motives and whether it will work or not. Never thought of it as a big deal, just as a tougher way of doing stuff, but not much I can do about it.
To get to the point, I support this cause, will sign whatever I need to sign, but am to lazy to start it myself Just wanted to give you some support. If you're willing to put some more time into this, maybe this is the beggining of a revolution! Revolution of geeks with custom DPIs! But it's still something damn it!
Cheers mate!
Sent from my Desire HD using xda app-developers app
Thank you, Uros. I was happy to read your reply.
It seems that there is no interest in this, however. Very unfortunate, but I suppose if this is what the people want. . . . It was worth a try.
Thanks for your effort.
I am rather curious to know if this is because people were going "tl;dr" or they're genuinely not interested in having this issue fixed. I just need to know so that I could make the proper adjustments.
Granted, it would take a bit longer, but as Goethe said, "I apologize in advance, had I had more time, this letter would be shorter."
Or is it that most people believe that the odds of getting Google to listen to us are too small?
There's a reason why Google won't give us the option to install anyway, just as there's a reason as to why this probably hasn't been noticed by as many people as preferred.
It all comes down to noobs.
Regarding this thread, the noobs are probably coming across this thread and click because they're interested by the title. They see all the text and think "F&#k that!". Unfortunately, that is generally the noob mentality.
Maybe colouring some of the text and spacing it out a little bit more could help the cause, but only time would tell.
Now onto the matter at hand.
I personally don't think Google will allow us to install apps anyway (even though I think they should) because noobs are super dangerous to themselves. In general, noobs won't read which then means that if they go to install an app which isn't compatible and install it anyway, they won't read that it could potentially harm their device.
The other type of user to make a mistake when it comes to installing such apps, would be the general android population. After all, us here on XDA are but a small proportion of Android users globally. Just because we have knowledge about what should and shouldn't be on our devices and how to make things work which shouldn't, the average Android user isn't the same.
They'd probably see the message and simply think "It says it could harm my phone but it's a great phone so nothing will go wrong". That is where problems can then occur.
The noobs and the average android owner would then have mucked up their device in one way or another and would be blaming and complaining to Google (as if it was Google's mistake). That makes it cause more harm than good, hence why I don't think it will happen.
Just my 2 cents, of course
''Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver''
Wow... Did I pick the wrong phone to get this year? Every phone Ive had since I started getting smartphones has had some community around it that has developed roms. It seems like the Q hit the scene and got lost. Everyone is either on the galaxy III or EVO LTE. Or is it just difficult or something to make roms for this phone.
Maybe my desire to have a hardware keyboard is getting outdated... I remember when the epic came out and sold out nearly immediately just because of all the people who wanted a hard keyboard.
I guess Im just disappointed ... thanks for paying attention for a moment,
Wow... that's a nice first post introducing yourself to the community...
Maybe a little research before purchasing would have helped you make a better decision?
This phones dev is in it's infancy, most qwerty phones take off a bit slow, see where this one is in a year.
-Saint
Another thing to consider (and I think others have voiced this previously here or something similar)....at least compared to the Epic, this phone doesn't have the innate motivational outright must-have *need* for ROM development and such, for one simple reason: while not saying the phone is perfect, by and large, the phone just simply works and works well on stock alone. As many reviews attested from launch, its also about as close to AOSP in stock form as you're likely to see from a major US carrier with little built-in bloat.
None of that is to say that ROM development wouldn't make it better or isn't desirable by any stretch, but at the same time, there isn't really a general sense of urgency about it either as compared to examples we've all experienced in the past. Hopefully that's due to Google's influence taking hold over Motorola and continues going forward as well.
fallnSaint said:
Wow... that's a nice first post introducing yourself to the community...
Maybe a little research before purchasing would have helped you make a better decision?
This phones dev is in it's infancy, most qwerty phones take off a bit slow, see where this one is in a year.
-Saint
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Sorry? I didn't realize I needed to introduce myself everytime I get a new phone. I may not post very often, but I have been here for a while. Sadly, my ability to do anything with making roms is very limited and I havent had the time to learn much more than how to root and put in new roms. At the moment Im leery of rooting this phone due to the whole "Void your warranty" thing that motorola has. It may not matter at all since I have insurance, I dont know.
PythonFanTN said:
Another thing to consider (and I think others have voiced this previously here or something similar)....at least compared to the Epic, this phone doesn't have the innate motivational outright must-have *need* for ROM development and such, for one simple reason: while not saying the phone is perfect, by and large, the phone just simply works and works well on stock alone. As many reviews attested from launch, its also about as close to AOSP in stock form as you're likely to see from a major US carrier with little built-in bloat.
None of that is to say that ROM development wouldn't make it better or isn't desirable by any stretch, but at the same time, there isn't really a general sense of urgency about it either as compared to examples we've all experienced in the past. Hopefully that's due to Google's influence taking hold over Motorola and continues going forward as well.
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Click to collapse
Fair enough, I suppose I did note that I wasn't having much issues. I guess I just got used to getting a new phone and seeing new roms up almost the same week. Thats happened on the last four phones ive had. I may just have to bite the bullet and just unlock my bootloader so that I can root and use it again. I really am only missing one item that I want, but as mentioned above, Im a bit leery on the "void your warranty" to unlock the phone. I was a little put off by the "no drm content" warning too, but then again, I dont usually watch movies on my phone... just lots of crunchyroll.
kilmarac said:
Sorry? I didn't realize I needed to introduce myself everytime I get a new phone. I may not post very often, but I have been here for a while. Sadly, my ability to do anything with making roms is very limited and I havent had the time to learn much more than how to root and put in new roms. At the moment Im leery of rooting this phone due to the whole "Void your warranty" thing that motorola has. It may not matter at all since I have insurance, I dont know.
Fair enough, I suppose I did note that I wasn't having much issues. I guess I just got used to getting a new phone and seeing new roms up almost the same week. Thats happened on the last four phones ive had. I may just have to bite the bullet and just unlock my bootloader so that I can root and use it again. I really am only missing one item that I want, but as mentioned above, Im a bit leery on the "void your warranty" to unlock the phone. I was a little put off by the "no drm content" warning too, but then again, I dont usually watch movies on my phone... just lots of crunchyroll.
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Click to collapse
First post in a new forum acts as your intro imo. We are working towards some roms, just a bit slow going atm.
As for the official unlock, have you looked at this:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1942243
Can't say I have ever used a warranty having insurance, but may put some of your concerns to rest.
-Saint
Well I look at this one of two ways...
Either you a) help make those ROM's that come out within a week of the device's release or b) wait for others to release them.
I am usually in the B category, as the most I've done previously was help test and write scripts... I'm attempting to be in the A category myself, but it's not working out real well (as you can tell...)
So, unless you can help, I suggest you continue to wait. It will come, just give it time... the hardware is solid, and I don't see any issue getting CM9 singing. CM10/other stuff will have to wait IMHO until official JB - unless some other breakthru is made, which would be great.
Regardless, patience is a virtue. Everyone is doing this in their free time, for no profit. I hope to have something fruitful in the near future, but I have very little help and am still learning the ropes of Android development in general...
I was contemplating getting init.d working for us, but I think I'll wait a bit longer. League of Legends is calling me.
Seriously though, the ROMs will start flowing when people find issues with what we have now. And since what we have now is as close to stock as it gets with manufacturer skins, people are pretty satisfied. I know I sure am, otherwise I'd have cooked something up already.
Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk 2