here the test and review by GPS PASSION
http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=105771
energy59 said:
here the test and review by GPS PASSION
http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=105771
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This device, as attractive as it may be, is starting to rack up some real negatives:
1) the confused (for consumers) situation with the Qualcomm chip and the US Court injunction (what effect may that have on overall sales and consequently warranty, quality control etc ?)
2) variations in build quality (sliders, screens unglued etc)
3) constant WWE ROM supply problems and high prices
4) the ongoing argument over video drivers (may not be a real issue, since it seems unlikely to me that any class action will actually occur)
I'm getting a small amount of "sand in my shoes"
I wonder: why are we bashing this device more and more lately? The more we bash, the less people buy, the worse TC sales are, the less support we'll get and eventually we might wind up with NO software updates at all..
So let's try to think about the positive things shall we
ianl8888 said:
1) the confused (for consumers) situation with the Qualcomm chip
2) variations in build quality (sliders, screens unglued etc)
3) constant WWE ROM supply problems and high prices
4) the ongoing argument over video drivers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1: is a non-issue, by the time in 2009 when HTC will need to use a new chip, this device will have been replaced in all likelihood, or will have a slightly different chipset. No problem.
2: I've not heard of any problems, slight noise from a screen and concerns here and there, but no issues with previous build so why this one? Anyway, you get a defective one, you return it!
3: supply will level in a month or two, place an order now and you should have it early Feb. The fact that it's popular should tell you a lot.
4: again is a non-issue - either you want a multi-purpose phone like this or you don't. The video will be as released, I don't believe anything more will happen with it. It's fine as released for general purpose stuff...
Essentially, if you wanted a high-performance video device this one was never for you; if you want a great PDA phone it is. Make your choice. For me build quality is excellent and the rest is of no importance.
If you want great video performance buy a Cowon iAudio A3 (I got the A2), great rendering to high resolutions too in widescreen format, bigger and heavier than the TC but good for all your video/audio/FM radio/pictures/document needs. No input possible of course. That's why I needed the TC
SabbeRubbish said:
I wonder: why are we bashing this device more and more lately? The more we bash, the less people buy, the worse TC sales are, the less support we'll get and eventually we might wind up with NO software updates at all..
So let's try to think about the positive things shall we
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple.
Post cognitive dissonance:
http://www.ciadvertising.org/sa/fall_03/adv382J/mbabbott/advertising.htm
There have been high expectations from the device for a long time, combine that with the difficulty in actually getting hold of one and a couple of new models from other manufacturers on the horizon, and those expectations will change. Cognitive Dissonance is a much more difficult problem for companies to manage these days, mostly because of the internet.
I must say, truly interesting! And indeed I've caught myself luring to Eten and LG devices, but none are up to the TC challenge imho.
All i can say is i am right with rickgillyon.
Everyday, i am happy to have TC.
GPS, sound, screen, weight, radio, phone are perfect.
A lot of Applications are available.
I haven't buy this device for video but if it works well, i will use it some times.
Ziggy
fishes234 said:
Simple.
Post cognitive dissonance:
http://www.ciadvertising.org/sa/fall_03/adv382J/mbabbott/advertising.htm
There have been high expectations from the device for a long time, combine that with the difficulty in actually getting hold of one and a couple of new models from other manufacturers on the horizon, and those expectations will change. Cognitive Dissonance is a much more difficult problem for companies to manage these days, mostly because of the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True enough, although I have not yet made a decision to dissonate about. I had been somewhat interested in the ETEN X800 until some independent tests showed a slowness in its response - some people report it is now improved with some ROM changes, others don't think so.
My decisions tend to be based on the actual experience of the product - paper specifications simply weed out those that do not interest me to start with.
It's also interesting that the optimists here discount issues - eg. one reply to my "sand in my shoes" post suggested that by 2009 the Qualcomm Court injunction will be irrelevant as HTC will be using a different chip. But I don't really intend to change devices annually, so for me it is a potential issue, particularly as the outcomes cannot be easily predicted.
Supply is an issue - we've been given way too many false dates since August to believe "the next one". And there has been no real attempt at an explanation - but given the seemingly unglued screens and flimsy controls reported on some units, quality control on production issues may be a factor. Simply returning it is a very last resort, especially from O/S. It's far better to avoid the problems to begin with.
But then, without the optimists life would be dull I suppose. Even when they quote posts selectively ...
ianl8888 said:
It's also interesting that the optimists here discount issues - eg. one reply to my "sand in my shoes" post suggested that by 2009 the Qualcomm Court injunction will be irrelevant as HTC will be using a different chip. But I don't really intend to change devices annually, so for me it is a potential issue, particularly as the outcomes cannot be easily predicted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The outcome is already known, replacement chips are ready according to Qualcomm, and you won't have to change your device - they won't make us hand our phones back in...
As I say, it's a non-issue for the end user.
rickgillyon said:
The outcome is already known, replacement chips are ready according to Qualcomm, and you won't have to change your device - they won't make us hand our phones back in...
As I say, it's a non-issue for the end user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've discussed this out in another thread - so repetition is pointless. If you believe Qualcomm's rationalisations (after they have been convicted of knowing patent infringement), then I have some shares in the Sydney Harbour Bridge for you. Cheap, too. Such chips need to be fabricated, then assembled in new devices for testing. Qualcomm's "new" chips are also subject to a further Court examination next February before design release- the time and results of that are not predictable.
I'm not suggesting that the devices already sold will be recalled - do you understand the term "straw man" ? If world wide sales of the P3650 are repressed through this issue, HTC will reduce development and support for this model as fast as it can ... that's the core of my comments.
It's racking up real negatives. The only defence to this is cool examination of potential outcomes, or risk wasting money.
Chips need to be fabricated? Really? I'd never have guessed...
Fact is that Qualcomm, naughty as they undoubtedly are, have been working on this problem for some time as they knew they would lose. I see no reason to doubt that chips will be ready, and will be available. The reason Qulacomm will be hurrying out a replacement is to avoid the punitive commission they are paying right now.
HTC support? Surely you're kidding?
If, as you say, the issue stretches beyond early 2009, and supplies stop in early 2009, what's the difference? How often have you seen real support or development of an HTC product after the first few months? IME that support and development only comes in the cooked ROMs.
This still looks to me like the best device available right now, and with Qualcomm and HTC able to use the chip until 2009, not much of an issue for us. What's the alternative?
I am surprised at the amount of stick this device seems to be generating. I bought it as a replacement for my original Touch as I missed 3G and I have to say it's a fairly stunning device. Build quality on my unit is excellent, the slider and the scroll wheel are firm and responsive. The unit itself performs what I expect of it: PDA, email, fast internet. I fully expect this to be my longest lasting phone for quite a while, easily until end of FY 2009/2010. Problems like video drivers etc I don't really understand, it's adequate for a phone. If I want to watch videos I tend to use a full video capable device (eg PSP) rather than try to watch them on a phone.
SabbeRubbish said:
I wonder: why are we bashing this device more and more lately? The more we bash, the less people buy, the worse TC sales are, the less support we'll get and eventually we might wind up with NO software updates at all..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if we don't bash them, they think everyone's happy with the current performance and they don't bother improving it or doing anything about it.
andyturner said:
But if we don't bash them, they think everyone's happy with the current performance and they don't bother improving it or doing anything about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No no, I do insist we bash them PERSONALLY, but not on the sales websites, as potential future customers may be scared in the future, even if the issue is already resolved, and therefore make the release of TC a fiasco, which would make HTC not distribute any sw updates...
Just a question:
How much would an external antenna help to get a better signal?
I would like to use the TC to track a short hike. Due to the test mentioned above, I would be forced to take the TC in my hand all the time. So I thougt I plug in an external antenna and fix the end somewhere to my clothes/backpack. Would that help?
Straputsky said:
Just a question:
How much would an external antenna help to get a better signal?
I would like to use the TC to track a short hike. Due to the test mentioned above, I would be forced to take the TC in my hand all the time. So I thougt I plug in an external antenna and fix the end somewhere to my clothes/backpack. Would that help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on the satellite coverage... My country has only 8 satellites covering it, so we couldn't utilize it fully even if we wanted to. (I don't know the background but thats the max number of lockons everyone gets around here)
But if your TC performs well in the city, i don't see any need for an external antenna, but an extra battery is a different story. And I hope you have other tracking softwares in your arsenal than the included TomTom...
gnick666 said:
...And I hope you have other tracking softwares in your arsenal than the included TomTom...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With TomTom it would be a very short trip.
No, I plan to use TrackMe which was created by someone here in the community. It allows you to turn of the display, so the device consumes less power.
The problem is, that the TC didn't perform that good and I was thinking if it performs better with an external antenna. Especially in wooden areas I hope to gain a significant better signal.
Straputsky said:
...Especially in wooden areas I hope to gain a significant better signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'd definitely get a better reception, but that would increase battery drainage. Bigger external antenna, heavier the drain on the battery.
But you can always pack the external antenna, and use it if needed. You won't loose anything, and we'd get some fieldtest results from the woods in Germany
@rickgyllion
Wot, no Harbour Bridge shares ? I'll even lower the price ! Oh well ...
"If, as you say, the issue stretches beyond early 2009 ..." I never said that, I simply pointed out that Qualcomm still faces unpredictable Court examination of its new designs. An inconvenient fact ...
"How often have you seen real support or development of an HTC product after the first few months?" Since the 1st non-English ROM devices have now been out a few months, one might think that stage has already been reached.
Between Qualcomm and HTC, it's a real stuff-up.
My attempt at resolution is that I have pre-ordered both the P3650 and an alternate non-HTC device. Both are due "in February" or "real soon now" or whichever comes first. When one or the other finally makes it to the retail market, then I'll make a decision.
Reading this lead me to a page on wmexpert.com. This page is not accessible on wmexpert anymore!? wtf! checked google cache and luckily it was still there. For internet backup reasons id like to back it up on XDA THIS IS NOT MY WORK
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Qualcomm, HTC, chipsets and features: An Insider Q + A
* By Malatesta
Posted on February 13, 2008 2:15 PM
Filed under Editorials, Featured
Tags: chipset class action HTC insider msm7500 Qualcomm
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With the recent spate of Qualcomm info (they just showed a whole new lineup of next-gen chips, including an improved version of aGPS called…ready for it… gpsOneXTRA, I suppose tech companies have to pay for vowels) and frustration with HTC over the “missing driver controversy”, the community is wondering just what is going on here?
Was HTC just cheaping out (something yours truly has even said, ahem)? Is Qualcomm manipulating the numbers or do they have faulty chips? And what does this all mean for the future of WM devices?
Read on for some off-the-record information from someone "in the know" about what is going on with Qualcomm and HTC. The answers are quite fascinating…
At issue here are a few questions that frequently come up in our forums:
* Why is aGPS not frequently enabled?
* Who’s at fault in the HTC/Qualcomm driver class-action lawsuit?
* Why don’t we have ~5mp cameras on a lot of devices, especially CDMA?
Surely there are even more tech ponderings that can be asked and maybe in the future we’ll update this piece to reflect those, but for now lets see what our tipster has to say on these issues. For what I hope are somewhat obvious reason, their identity needs to remain anonymous.
(While the technical information is accurate, the questions and answers are paraphrased by the author for the flow of the article.)
Q: Why do a lot of overseas GSM phones have massive 5MP cameras, yet their sister (CDMA) versions seem to have a 2.1MP limit? e.g. Samsung SGH-F490 vs. Sprint M800.
A:Currently, the costs of 5MP sensors are somewhat prohibitive. But in addition, current Qualcomm chips lack certain features like jpeg hardware and the system can be over-taxed from transferring the sensor-data into memory for post-processing. In essence, multitasking with the OS, with an active radio and using the camera may be too much for the processor so the resolution of the sensor may need to be reduced..
Q: What’s the deal with aGPS (GPSOne) both on the earlier MSM-6500 platform and the newer MSM-7500, specifically why was it never activated on the earlier devices and just who decides?
A: When it comes down to modern aGPS, it is strictly a money issue: carriers are not keen to pay for the drivers and the OEMs (HTC, Moto, etc.) are not going to foot the bill (Edit: Although it looks like Sprint and some other carriers are finally eating the cost on their new 2008 devices). On older devices, the aGPS on the MSM-6500 chips may not have been as efficient or accurate, since they were developed back in 2002, hence why they may not have been used. And now for that million-dollar question: Who’s at fault in the HTC-Qualcomm debacle? Turns out it’s a lengthy answer and despite was some may want to believe, there really was no malicious intent from either side but the answer might point to a complicated system of pricing tiers, varying functions, promised performance gains not met and overall grayness where the only losers are the consumers…more on this issue after the Q/A. Quick technical note: the ARM9 processors are found on the MSM-62/6500 chipsets (PDF!) like in the PPC-6700 and Treo 7xx series; the ARM11 processors are found on the MSM-72/7500 chipsets like the Sprint Mogul, HTC Touch, etc. where it handles the OS, graphics and programs. Also on that chipset, a secondary ARM9 processor handles the phone-radio aspect—many thought this dual-processor system would result in superior performance, but instead we have the HTC class-action suit. Interestingly, Qualcomm has recently pulled all of their data sheets for some reason. Hmm.
Q: HTC, Qualcomm and the missing drivers—where do we send the angry mob with torches?
A: Qualcomm has a tiered pricing policy with their chipsets—so although you bought the chip, you have not bought all the features. So you have to pay additional fees per phone to get things like aGPS, graphic acceleration, etc. In the past, HTC had no problems when using the older MSM-6500 chips (ARM9 processors) without drivers hence their reluctance to pay for any or additional support with the new MSM-7500 chips (ARM11 processors), especially since the newer processors were advertised to match or outperform the older generation. Unfortunately, Qualcomm’s ARM11 performance does not match their previous ARM9 processor and is therefore, not quite as advertised. To get the proper performance out of the ARM11, one has to have knowledge of the processor’s implementation and design, but since that processor is not publicly available; the solution requires cooperation and assistance. HTC in this instance does not have this knowledge and is therefore unable to directly fix the problem, so they are put in a tough situation as they already have millions of these devices sold but they don’t want to pay Qualcomm more than they have to.
Q: So Qualcomm sort of pulled a shell-game here, much like the recent CES + “Snapdragon” controversy?
A: The shell game comment is a bit strong but somewhat understandable. When Qualcomm sets out to make these processors, the marketing information comes out way before the final design and chip does, so while Qualcomm had the intention of outdoing themselves, in reality they fell behind the mark. Due to the nature of the industry, by the time these performance issues became knowledge, it was too late to fix as they had already moved on to development of other chipsets and processors. No doubt Qualcomm behaves like a lot of companies and they don’t want to admit internally or publicly that their processors are underperforming, so this hampers any immediate resolution--the problem then becomes compounded as time goes on. Because of this, HTC is put in an odd position as they are selling devices based on Qualcomm’s marketing and information, not on their own knowledge of how those processors work and are designed since they are not privy to that information. Qualcomm is not being as straightforward with them and in turn, HTC is trying to work around the issue by trying to fix or enhance their software, even though they are unaware that it is not really their fault. It is in HTC’s best interest to of course try and fix this issue right away and if they know what they need to know perhaps they would foot the bill for those drivers, but unfortunately all the butt covering at all levels is preventing certain people who need to know from getting the job done
So there you go folks—judge accordingly I suppose. In hindsight, I have to revise my “HTC was cheap” line and instead sort of paint them as an unwitting victim who has been put in a tough situation by Qualcomm. Along the same line, Qualcomm didn’t exactly out right deceive anyone, but they seemed to have slipped up a bit on the MSM-72/7500 platform quite a bit.
The latest Qualcomm chipsets are promising everything under the hood: Wifi, WiMax 3g, 4g, BT 2.1, FM radio, VOIP, video out, aGPS,/GPS, 2D + 3D video acceleration, mobile TV, ad nauseum. But the caveat should be obvious by now: you are not entitled to all of those features and it is up to the OEM and carriers to pick and choose what they want, a la carte style.
In a way, this makes sense as it certainly allows device manufactures and carriers to offer a wide range of devices with varying functionality and pricing, from low to high.
But it also means that as the target audience, you are at the mercy of those OEMs, carriers and Qualcomm to sign up and pay for those features (it certainly doesn’t help when the promised performance of new-gen chips fall below their predecessors!). This sort of begs the question: what about Android devices? They too will have to pass through the labyrinth of carrier testing, OEM development and yes, paying Qualcomm for drivers to unlock those magical and prized features. Will that decentralized and somewhat chaotic software model work when we have these ongoing issues now?
So what do you think? Post your thoughts and comments below. And if you have some questions of your own about GSM/CDMA chipsets and functionality, ask away and maybe we’ll do a sequel article.
And a special thanks to our tech insider for all the info!
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Not having lag is NOT an option or function!!!
Thanks for bringing this up.
Devtone said:
In a way, this makes sense as it certainly allows device manufactures and carriers to offer a wide range of devices with varying functionality and pricing, from low to high.
But it also means that as the target audience, you are at the mercy of those OEMs, carriers and Qualcomm to sign up and pay for those features (it certainly doesn’t help when the promised performance of new-gen chips fall below their predecessors!). This sort of begs the question: what about Android devices? They too will have to pass through the labyrinth of carrier testing, OEM development and yes, paying Qualcomm for drivers to unlock those magical and prized features. Will that decentralized and somewhat chaotic software model work when we have these ongoing issues now?
So what do you think? Post your thoughts and comments below. And if you have some questions of your own about GSM/CDMA chipsets and functionality, ask away and maybe we’ll do a sequel article.
And a special thanks to our tech insider for all the info!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that Qualcomm has some VERY serious (at least GSM + WCDMA; don't really know about the CdmaOne / CDMA2000 versions of, say, TI OMAP 3) competition (Samsung 6400/6430; Nvidia in the future; OMAP 3 etc.) hope they do pay more attention to the performance and pricing of their chipsets.
Prolly, curently, the best thing to do is voting with your wallet: don't pay for something that is Qualcomm-based (unless you're on CDMA, of course), but go for something other (and, as far as the brand new chipsets are concerned, better)
Not a single regulation violated, pretty cool if you ask me:
Built by Mike Tassey and Richard Perkins, the Wireless Aerial Surveillance Platform (otherwise known as the WASP) is a flying drone that has a 6-foot wingspan, a 6-foot length and weighs in at 14 pounds. The small form factor of the unmanned aerial vehicle allows it to drop under radar and is often mistaken for a large bird. It was built from an Army target drone and converted to run on electric batteries rather than gasoline. It can also be loaded with GPS information and fly a predetermined course without need for an operator. Taking off and landing have to be done manually with the help of a mounted HD camera. However, the most interesting aspect of the drone is that it can crack Wi-Fi networks and GSM networks as well as collect the data from them.
It can accomplish this feat with a Linux computer on-board that’s no bigger than a deck of cards. The computer accesses 32GB of storage to house all that stolen data. It uses a variety of networking hacking tools including the BackTrack toolset as well as a 340 million word dictionary to guess passwords. In order to access cell phone data, the WASP impersonates AT&T and T-Mobile cell phone towers and fools phones into connecting to one of the eleven antenna on-board. The drone can then record conversations to the storage card and avoids dropping the call due to the 4G T-mobile card routing communications through VOIP.
Amazingly, this was accomplished with breaking a single FCC regulation. The drone relies on the frequency band used for Ham radios to operate. Not wanting to get into legal trouble with AT&T and T-Mobile, they tested the technology in isolated areas to avoid recording phone conversations other than their own. The duo play to discuss how to build the WASP at the DEFCON 19 hacking conference.
http://news.yahoo.com/men-build-small-flying-spy-drone-cracks-wi-172803720.html
Let it hack my g2x, my phoe will probably knock it down when it reboots, or gps will take so long to lock up the drone will run out of juice.
That thing is a felony arrest waiting to happen.
G2X CM7
Wow. I'm more frightened of the gov't using it than hackers. Pretty incredible innovation, though. Thx for the link!
Also, I think it'd be nice to have one thread that doesn't have a bitter G2X user segue any topic into how much they hate their phone. FFS!!
Nice! I want one!
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
Probably not breaking any laws as long as they are given permission to record the conversations (which are their own so far).
I have a swiper drone at work for testing our surveillance equipment. Never really thought about this application though.
Thanks for posting an interesting story. I rarely even open the general forums these days because it seems like every thread is "hate my phone," "should i trade," or "gb update brick." Nice change of scenery.
1984 Big brother comming our way
Hello friends,
windows phone is dead. Now millions of good and partially excellent pieces of hardware will be trashed in a short period of time, because software support is degrading rapidly. Think about the poisenous waste and the valuable raw materials. I'm not, but my girl friend's phone is affected as well.
Can that be true? - During the last years, several times messages popped up stating "install android on a windows phone is possible". Soem may have been fake, some more serious.
https://www.windowslatest.com/2017/08/05/install-android-on-lumia/
https://www.wpinternals.net/index.php/downloads
Shouldn't it be possible to port something like lineageOS to (most of current) windows phones, as by now there is a serious necessity to do so? Of course, this is an awful lot of work, which may not be possible to be done for free. But what about a bounty on that purpose? I'd be willing to set up such a bounty and manage it, but I do need some advice before, so here are my first questions:
Is there a fair chance for that project in general? Or is it bare nonsense?
Is "bountysource.com" the most recommended platform for that project - or is there a better choice?
I guess, there are "classes" of windows phones (generations / processor families / whatever). Do some make more sense to be covered by the project - or can we expect to find a solution for really every winPhone?
Which final goal can be achieved? What makes sense? My idea:
- MUST HAVE: touch screen, telephone, wifi, mic, speakers, headphone, SD support, GPS
- NICE TO HAVE: bluetooth, position/acceleration sensor, ambient light sensor
- OPTIONAL: UKW radio, magnetic sensor
Does somebody have a more appealing name than "AOWinP"? (-;
Bthw: We could provide two win phones as a loan to devs who do not own one.
These are my 2cts, hope more knowledgeable people will join in and share their thoughts.
Greetings from Berlin,
Wolf
Firstly, what this isn't. This isn't going to be your typical full time job. I can't make you rich on the front end of this endeavor or even offer you benefits, as the title stated, I'm looking for a partnership.
My background is mechanical & electrical with experience in nearly any trade skill imaginable. I've built cars, hotels, industrial machines and industrial parts. I've sold $10 TVs & $10M projects, and over the years I learned enough coding to brick my phone. This is why I'm here. I need someone to balance my skill set and form a partnership with inorder to bring an entirely unique product to market. The success or failure of this project will rely greatly on the application interface. And if this project is a success it could be industry-changing and the residuals could be limitless. I can't make you rich on the front end but the back end is all up to us. I'm looking for developer with the imagination to see the potential in this project and can't get passionate about what they do. Ideally this person enjoys cars and custom automotive as this project is for the automotive sector. You don't need to be the Luke Skywalker of Android development however experience in building from scratch, Bluetooth protocol, WiFi, Canbus, I2C, LED lighting technologies, AI, GPS will all help. You don't need to know them all you just need to be willing to learn when needed.
The lucky individual will become a full partner in these current projects as well as future ones. I've spent 2 years getting this first one to the hardware bid phase but without an app it isn't worth it and if I'm going to give away any part of this it'll be to a individual not a corporation.
Please only serious replys by email to: [email protected]
So if your a car lover and want to do something different is love to hear from you.
Further project details will be provided on request with NDA
Respectfully
James McNatt