Database Info

The End of an Era?

http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...-the-de/&category=classic&icid=eng_latest_art
The Thunderbolt apparently was difficult to root. I'm not a root expert but according to the article, the impression is that HTC will begin not being so developer friendly.
Thoughts?
Sent from my ADR6300 using......you get the idea.

I don't understand why these manufacturers, at the very least, can't treat their phones like the Nexus line: Ship with a locked bootloader, and give us an option to unlock it ourselves, and make it one-way. If they choose not to repair rooted devices, fine. But if I'm paying for the phone, I OWN it. I should be able to run the ROMS, kernels, and apps I want.

Product F(RED) said:
I don't understand why these manufacturers, at the very least, can't treat their phones like the Nexus line: Ship with a locked bootloader, and give us an option to unlock it ourselves, and make it one-way. If they choose not to repair rooted devices, fine. But if I'm paying for the phone, I OWN it. I should be able to run the ROMS, kernels, and apps I want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man I totally agree. I wish all Androids were treated like the Nexus line.
Sent from my ADR6300 using......you get the idea.

Because look at it this way. The people that like to fiddle with these things (everyone on this site) will be the majority of people who decide to root. We know what we do will void warranties and we know that, unless it's there's really really serious issue, we can fix these things ourselves. Besides, by giving us these bootloaders that can be unlocked and relocked, these manufacturers are actually screwing themselves MORE. HTC devices have always had bootloader security (NAND Lock). When you root, you can turn it off (aka S-OFF), but you can also turn it back on (S-ON) and then send the device in for repair or replacement. With the Nexus line, once the device is NAND unlocked, you can't re-lock it. I really don't understand the mentality behind the people who decide to lock things down.

So how long until HTC becomes Motorola?
Sent from my ADR6300 using......you get the idea.

Just wait, Some of us will go out and mess Verizon up by rooting overwriting their signed protection and do it just to prove they can't stop a dev or modder, all the companies try but none to date have succeeded, BUT it sucks that HTC is going down this line.

I think that they designed the system so that the good filers can relock it and bring it for warranty. If they wanted to make it so hard they could make them unrootable
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Product F(RED) said:
If they choose not to repair rooted devices, fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is that possibly fine?
Take the Motorola Defy as an apt example because I have one - my earpiece has just stopped working.
It's absolutely nothing to do with the OS or whether it's rooted, it's a pure hardware problem and has been known to afflict fully stock handsets as well as rooted/modded ones.
Why should the mere fact that I've fiddled with the OS on my phone excuse a manufacturer from fixing hardware problems that have not been caused by my fiddling?

Step666 said:
How is that possibly fine?
Take the Motorola Defy as an apt example because I have one - my earpiece has just stopped working.
It's absolutely nothing to do with the OS or whether it's rooted, it's a pure hardware problem and has been known to afflict fully stock handsets as well as rooted/modded ones.
Why should the mere fact that I've fiddled with the OS on my phone excuse a manufacturer from fixing hardware problems that have not been caused by my fiddling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because they figure messing with the OS is apparently evil. I'm more than willing to bet this is more of a carrier pushed issue than the OEM because one big reason of rooting is to bypass carrier limits.
Sent from my ADR6300 using......you get the idea.

That's an excuse, not a reason.
There is no reasonable justification for manufacturers to take such a stance.
And even less of one for someone on here to apparently agree with such behaviour.

As one of the few founding members of the Dev Team AndIRC I got a good laugh out of this article, this is not the end of an era. All devices have had some challenges to rooting. The HTC Droid Eris which was our claim to fame took months to root and then finally we got some working methods, the fact that we owned the thunderbolt in less than a few hours (the article is too dramatic) is amazing, we have some very skilled devs and with time we get work done.

I think this is a carrier issue. Now that their all worried about tethering. Hey if you pay for the phone and service what you do with it is your problem. Its about making more money. If it gets worse I may downgrade to a metro! Omg
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Captainkrtek said:
As one of the few founding members of the Dev Team AndIRC I got a good laugh out of this article, this is not the end of an era. All devices have had some challenges to rooting. The HTC Droid Eris which was our claim to fame took months to root and then finally we got some working methods, the fact that we owned the thunderbolt in less than a few hours (the article is too dramatic) is amazing, we have some very skilled devs and with time we get work done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incredible took a while too... Kinda seems like they're stepping it up a bit, generation after generation.
Sent from my Droid Incredible running Myn's Warm TwoPointTwo RLS5.3.

maybe the carriers got something to do with it? they want to charge extra for tethering and so on after all. if it would be too easy to unlock extra features and wipe devices of their bloatware they might miss out on additional money?

Well f*ck the carriers. If they're going to cripple a device, they have no right to charge what they do. Yes, you already pay about half of what they pay for the phone, BUT you pay back the difference over the term of your contract.

Product F(RED) said:
Well f*ck the carriers. If they're going to cripple a device, they have no right to charge what they do. Yes, you already pay about half of what they pay for the phone, BUT you pay back the difference over the term of your contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably more than that.
Sent from my Incredible with the XDA Premium App.

The G2 and MT4G took a couple of months to root but it happened. The amazing devs here will always find a way.
I completely agree that we own it and should be able to do what we want. If you expect the carrier to support it they have a right to only support their approved configuration.
I think hardware warranty and troubleshooting warranty should be separated.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

Why can't they just do it more like the PC's do.
If you screw up you can insert a bootable CD and restore the OS.
Of course a CD is not a ideal option for a phone, but I can see a SD card formated and coded in a way that it is able to restore the OS completely, even if the phone is bricked.
If the manufactures give such a card away (could just be a 512mb card I gues) then the consumer could hack the phone to dead and still have a backup thus keeping the manufacturer out of sight.
I mean, how hard could something like this be? ;p

dragonithe said:
Why can't they just do it more like the PC's do.
If you screw up you can insert a bootable CD and restore the OS.
Of course a CD is not a ideal option for a phone, but I can see a SD card formated and coded in a way that it is able to restore the OS completely, even if the phone is bricked.
If the manufactures give such a card away (could just be a 512mb card I gues) then the consumer could hack the phone to dead and still have a backup thus keeping the manufacturer out of sight.
I mean, how hard could something like this be? ;p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impossible for the carriers since to them rooting is horrible.
Sent from my Incredible with the XDA Premium App.

..................

[Q] HTC Inspire 4G to Nexus One?

Note: I'm posting this on multiple forums to receive more varied feedback, so if you see it in a couple places, please don't get upset.
I'm thinking of getting rid of my Inspire for a Nexus One. I'm frankly disappointed in the battery life and the customization options available to me. I've been reading these forums for quite awhile, so I'm very aware of all the options I have with my Inspire -- telling me that I can root "following this guide" or whatnot isn't going to be a game-changer for me.
What are your thoughts? What will I miss going from the Inspire to the Nexus One? What might I like better about the Nexus One? Is the trackball really that exciting?
If I do end up looking to do it, what do I have to look for when getting one? I know they sold them for TMo only first, and then brought out an AT&T compatible one. I've heard that there were two different screens available for them, does anyone have a preference or know what the difference might be? If I do end up looking for one, where should I look? Do you think there would be people willing to trade a Nexus One for an Inspire plus some cash?
I've already done a backup to the SD card via My Backup Pro - if I get a Nexus One, should I just have to insert the SIM and SD card and restore everything, or do I have to worry about more than that?
Any thoughts or advice is welcome! Thank you!

What customization options are you disappointed about? Just remember the Inspire is just 2 months old and look how far we have gotten with it so far.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App

True, I do recognize that I'm posting in the XDA forums! I'm speaking of a stock, unrooted Inspire. I'm not willing to root this phone -- after reading nearly everything there is to read on it, I'm convinced I will break it or get lost. I know my limits, and this is it. If there was a way to root without needing a gold card or downgrading or any of that, I might be in. There are many phones out there that can even be rooted without losing your info! This is complicated. At this point I'd simply be following directions whose actual meaning I'd be completely lost to, and just hoping that everything was done right in the right order. And if something went wrong, I'd have no idea where or how in between S-off, gold cards, downgrading, radios, sound issues, Eng S-off, etc.
I'm not knocking the people here, you have done amazing things with a phone that did NOT want to be rooted/customized. I'm just not able to take advantage of what you've done, because to be honest -- it is all above my head. And I'm not willing to be one of those people with the "Help! I think I turned my Inspire into a rabbit" threads.

Silas0220 said:
True, I do recognize that I'm posting in the XDA forums! I'm speaking of a stock, unrooted Inspire. I'm not willing to root this phone -- after reading nearly everything there is to read on it, I'm convinced I will break it or get lost. I know my limits, and this is it. If there was a way to root without needing a gold card or downgrading or any of that, I might be in. There are many phones out there that can even be rooted without losing your info! This is complicated. At this point I'd simply be following directions whose actual meaning I'd be completely lost to, and just hoping that everything was done right in the right order. And if something went wrong, I'd have no idea where or how in between S-off, gold cards, downgrading, radios, sound issues, Eng S-off, etc.
I'm not knocking the people here, you have done amazing things with a phone that did NOT want to be rooted/customized. I'm just not able to take advantage of what you've done, because to be honest -- it is all above my head. And I'm not willing to be one of those people with the "Help! I think I turned my Inspire into a rabbit" threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rooting is easier then you think!
HTC Inspire on CM7. Beast ROM. If I helped Thank me

I wouldn't touch a Nexus One with a ten foot pole. I am too used to using modern tech. That phone is very dated and feels every month of it. It would be like me giving up my Inspire for an iPhone 3G. If I were to move to the Nexus, I'd definitely be looking at the Nexus S. It's still an older tech phone, but has a nicer screen, it's lighter, and has a great support community.
However, I really can't think of anything you could do with the Nexus One that you can't with the Inspire... Every rom you could think of is here on this phone. The Captivate devs are almost all over here now, so we have that going for us. Of course, I'm in an HSPA+ area, so I'd also be taking a nose dive in data speed.
Oh yea, and using the newest version of the LeeDroid rom with SetCPU on the "Smartass" governer, I'm just now pluggin my phone in at the 34 hour mark with 5 hours of screen time... That's pretty damn good, if I do say so my damn self.

Many of your points involve rooting, which I've already said worries me. I'm a perfectly capable computer person, but the phone tech is daunting to me. I don't know where to start, and most of the terminology is worrying. You say it's easier than it looks, but that's because you've done it! To me looking in from the outside, it's so far beyond me it's like wanting to live on a base on the moon...

Silas0220 said:
Many of your points involve rooting, which I've already said worries me. I'm a perfectly capable computer person, but the phone tech is daunting to me. I don't know where to start, and most of the terminology is worrying. You say it's easier than it looks, but that's because you've done it! To me looking in from the outside, it's so far beyond me it's like wanting to live on a base on the moon...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't sweat it, man. Just hop into the "One Click Root" thread in the Development forum. It'll outline what you need to have before starting the process. It will guide you step by step through what you need to do. It's a headache when you first do it, but after that you'll be flashing like a champ. It's addictive. Feel free to PM me if you want to go through it together. I'll be more than happy to help. Just make sure you do everything with a fully charged battery.
One Click Root thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=961406
Also, there's a video in the top part of the first post. It's for an earlier version of the root app, but it's still very viable and lets you watch someone do it before you go through it.

Maybe he will like that with the N1 you can have a dirty trackball(since most are used now) that can change colors? You know colors with a "Brownish" tint.
The only thing advantage I could think of is there is a chance to use a cheaper data plan with the N1. But then again, the last time I used a N1 was a yr ago, so now the IMEIs may be recognized by ATT. But not sure if the OP realizes that you can do this.

Yeah, I've kinda dismissed the whole "Stick it to AT&T and use a $10 data plan!" thing. From what I can tell, the ones who do it are pretty much just lucky at this point. If you can say being stuck on Edge is lucky...
*takes a deep breath* Okay, maybe I'll look into this whole rooting business. I'd say I've been through about 1/3 of the pages in that one click root thread... Seems like a fair few people are getting things mucked up -- would you say they're pretty much the ones who are messing with things I'd likely never touch? Do I ever need to worry about a radio? Does the stock rooted ROM that's loaded at the end of it allow for better battery life and overclocking? Those are really my two biggest concerns if I'm going to root (and yeah, I get that they're counterproductive!).
I know I'm asking all the noob questions over again, most of which have already been answered many times here. People tend to get impatient with people like me getting into this kind of stuff, which is one reason I chose to stay away from it. This editorial (http://www.androidcentral.com/sometimes-root-isn’t-answer) also made me think twice (or three times)...
If I get into this, what I'd like to be able to do is to copy all my SD card files onto my computer, keeping the whole thing intact, copy it all back once this thing is done and I no longer need the gold card, fire up My Backup Pro, and have everything end up right back where it was. I really feel as if this is asking too much...

I know the feeling of everything looking really complex and hard. I came from a black berry, the key to rooting with either method is reading the directions. The directions are extremely watered down. What exactly scares you about rooting, what terminology? We are here to help you. The inspire is an amazing little device.

Thank you all for being willing to be so helpful. I'd say I was mostly turned off to rooting by going through the Hack Kit and One Click threads and reading about all the people who actually know what they're talking about having issues and breaking things. I figured if they were breaking things, I'd be SURE to mess something up big time.
I'll be keeping you guys at my fingertips for PMs if this goes badly, and I really do appreciate you being willing to help.
For those of you who do this ROM swapping thing often, is there any way to have some program make a snapshot of your homescreens so you don't have to re-configure them every time? Seems like it'd be a pain.

Silas0220 said:
Thank you all for being willing to be so helpful. I'd say I was mostly turned off to rooting by going through the Hack Kit and One Click threads and reading about all the people who actually know what they're talking about having issues and breaking things. I figured if they were breaking things, I'd be SURE to mess something up big time.
I'll be keeping you guys at my fingertips for PMs if this goes badly, and I really do appreciate you being willing to help.
For those of you who do this ROM swapping thing often, is there any way to have some program make a snapshot of your homescreens so you don't have to re-configure them every time? Seems like it'd be a pain.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Breaking things not so much . No one has completely bricked their inspire. There are a few things here and there that pop up and usually already have a fix posted for them.
Check out the guide to flashing at the top of this forum, I tried to get as detailed as I could.
Honestly no, Flashing a new rom (not an patch/upgrade) will be like booting your phone up for the first time. Though you can back up your sms,apps, and contacts. Everything else you will have to set up again. It can be a pain, but the pros far out weigh the cons !

Any reason you can see for me to use the hack kit over the one click?
Sent from a solid block of aluminum.

They are both good, the hack kit lets you be a little more involved with the rooting process. Where the GUI is more automated. The GUI has the potential to flash the h-boot wrong after it is rooted and s-off, leading to a black cwm screen. You can find a fix for that in the guide that is stickied.

Ooooookay, taking a deep breath and diving in. I'll let you know when I come up for air...

Silas0220 said:
Any reason you can see for me to use the hack kit over the one click?
Sent from a solid block of aluminum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I say the only reason you should use the hack kit is to understand adb commands a little bit better. I've used both methods and felt a tiny bit more accomplished with the hack kit. Don't worry about messing up, there are plenty of people willing to lend a hand.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA Premium App

Currently downloading the One Click with about 7 minutes to go. Is there an easy way to tell what ROMs allow for overclocking and to what point? I don't exactly see the need at the moment (I've never noticed my Inspire running slowly), but it'd be nice for future-proofing. I've been able to gather that OC requires more to do with the kernel than the ROM, and that not every ROM includes a kernel (I'm not even sure what I'd do with a kernel if I got one...). I'm figuring it's safe to assume that the stock rooted ROM that is loaded by the One Click doesn't have any OC abilities.
EDIT: I believe from most of my reading that I'm most interested in the LeeDroid ROM and accoutrements. Someone earlier mentioned that they are using this right now -- from going through his thread, it looks like that involves kernels and radios in addition to ROMS. I'm not asking for anyone to do anything special for me, but is there a step-by-step on how to go from post-One Click to happy LeeDroid?

Silas0220 said:
Currently downloading the One Click with about 7 minutes to go. Is there an easy way to tell what ROMs allow for overclocking and to what point? I don't exactly see the need at the moment (I've never noticed my Inspire running slowly), but it'd be nice for future-proofing. I've been able to gather that OC requires more to do with the kernel than the ROM, and that not every ROM includes a kernel (I'm not even sure what I'd do with a kernel if I got one...). I'm figuring it's safe to assume that the stock rooted ROM that is loaded by the One Click doesn't have any OC abilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless they changed it no (GUI).
Most devs will put OC or [OC] in the threads title, most of the time the kernel will flash along side of the rom. Though if it isn't and it is an optional kernel, the best method is to flash the the rom, then reboot, then flash the kernel. Most are overclocked to 1.8ghz some are 1.5ghz.
edit: You flash a kernel like you would a rom, except when flashing a kernel you don't do a full wipe, but it is best to wipe cache and dalvik cache.

Divinedark said:
Don't sweat it, man. Just hop into the "One Click Root" thread in the Development forum. It'll outline what you need to have before starting the process. It will guide you step by step through what you need to do. It's a headache when you first do it, but after that you'll be flashing like a champ. It's addictive. Feel free to PM me if you want to go through it together. I'll be more than happy to help. Just make sure you do everything with a fully charged battery.
One Click Root thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=961406
Also, there's a video in the top part of the first post. It's for an earlier version of the root app, but it's still very viable and lets you watch someone do it before you go through it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to chime in here and say that I have rooted and flashed my old Nexus one many times and I was totally lost with the Inspire root methods. I literally got a migraine just reading through the one-click thread the first time.

What are you having trouble understanding about it?

[Q] For those who just obtained a new captivate

I wanted to start a thread for those who just obtained a new captivate mostly for my own purposes. I am looking to obtain a list of action in the correct priority to improve the captivate experience. I know certain things need to be done in certain orders and it would be great if there was a running list with current links to resource those items.
For instance I am still running Stock 2.1 Update 1
I know I want to tether without contract additions. So much needs to happen before I can do so. I probably need to unlock the phone, update to the latest rev, remove the road blocks restricting unpaid tethering, etc.
Can anyone create a road map with links to accomplish this task... thank you from a long time member.

There are already guides out there if you search that will tell you how to do it. For 2.2 its as easy as rooting then deleting/freezing a .apk file
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

brokebackbear said:
I wanted to start a thread for those who just obtained a new captivate mostly for my own purposes. I am looking to obtain a list of action in the correct priority to improve the captivate experience. I know certain things need to be done in certain orders and it would be great if there was a running list with current links to resource those items.
For instance I am still running Stock 2.1 Update 1
I know I want to tether without contract additions. So much needs to happen before I can do so. I probably need to unlock the phone, update to the latest rev, remove the road blocks restricting unpaid tethering, etc.
Can anyone create a road map with links to accomplish this task... thank you from a long time member.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol are u serious? Theres a ton of stuff that guides u on how to unlock ur phone. U can just go to youtube and fallow the directions on http://www.youtube.com/user/MobileTechVideos

japr2821 said:
lol are u serious? Theres a ton of stuff that guides u on how to unlock ur phone. U can just go to youtube and fallow the directions on http://www.youtube.com/user/MobileTechVideos
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am serious... this is a serious site. OF course there are videos out there but the correct order has not been published. For instance any idiot can upgrade to 2.2 but sadly unless they have been told to unlock first they cannot go back to 2.1. That's the kind of stuff I was talking about. You don't have to be mean. I have been here since 2008 and never been asked if I was serious.

unlock refers to it being locked to a carier. for permsions this is all linux/unix/terminal related and we use the terms root and super user. macs being a terminal type of interface also use these terms.
to be rooted means you have access to the root of the file system and to have superuser permissions. root of the file system is described by the character "/" this is similat to c:\ in windows but terminal doesn't have letter designations on drives.
to enable tethering the best way is to either update to 2.2 via kies, root and freeze an apk that will require you to have a tethering data plan. or the alternative is to install a rom for an i9000 or other phone such as the i9010 armani or the chinese i9088 or the t-mobile vibrant, though vibrant roms may cause battery drain, that has been my experience anyhow.

brokebackbear said:
I am serious... this is a serious site. OF course there are videos out there but the correct order has not been published. For instance any idiot can upgrade to 2.2 but sadly unless they have been told to unlock first they cannot go back to 2.1. That's the kind of stuff I was talking about. You don't have to be mean. I have been here since 2008 and never been asked if I was serious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If u really mean recent captivate from at&t. they probably come woth froo loaded already. unless u got some left over stock from earliser batch.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App

tg9413 said:
If u really mean recent captivate from at&t. they probably come woth froo loaded already. unless u got some left over stock from earliser batch.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. Just got a Captivate from AT&T last month, because my old phone was pretty much unusable and I wanted something with more functionality. Still 2.1, and I attempted to upgrade to 2.2 following Samsung's instructions thoroughly and ended up with a bricked phone. Thankfully I was still in warranty since it was amazingly even less than 30 days that had passed, but still.
AT&T does not ship out the Captivate with 2.2, nor will they upgrade it for you. You get it 2.1, and have to upgrade it yourself. And if you happen to screw up somehow and actually hard brick your phone, to where it won't even turn on, they won't fix it. It's considered user error. Samsung will, but that's not the point here.

Delete....wrong thread.
But since I'm here......see below.

brokebackbear said:
I am serious... this is a serious site. OF course there are videos out there but the correct order has not been published. For instance any idiot can upgrade to 2.2 but sadly unless they have been told to unlock first they cannot go back to 2.1. That's the kind of stuff I was talking about. You don't have to be mean. I have been here since 2008 and never been asked if I was serious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never unlocked my phone and have gone back to 2.1 literally a hundred times. Looks like some reading/learning is in order.
PS. Might want to go ahead and purchase/make your jig so you will have it when you need it.

Just got my captivate replaced at an att tech center yesterday and the new one came with froyo 2.2 preloaded.

The.Se7enth said:
Wrong. Just got a Captivate from AT&T last month, because my old phone was pretty much unusable and I wanted something with more functionality. Still 2.1, and I attempted to upgrade to 2.2 following Samsung's instructions thoroughly and ended up with a bricked phone. Thankfully I was still in warranty since it was amazingly even less than 30 days that had passed, but still.
AT&T does not ship out the Captivate with 2.2, nor will they upgrade it for you. You get it 2.1, and have to upgrade it yourself. And if you happen to screw up somehow and actually hard brick your phone, to where it won't even turn on, they won't fix it. It's considered user error. Samsung will, but that's not the point here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong... I just replaced my captivate a couple weeks ago and it came with 2.2. I have seen several people reporting for the last 2 months since froyo released that it was already on their phone. I remember one post stating they got their phone shipped 2 days after official release and it was already loaded
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App

Captivates ARE in fact shipping with 2.2 on them right now. I have several sitting at my desk right now.

Yeah, you need to read... Everyone started in your same shoes. But not everyone asked for step by step guidelines to do things to their phones. So, do your research, then if/when u get stuck or lost, and there are no threads out there to help, ask away!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App

Here are the steps in order:
1. Root
2. Unlock
3. Flash ROM
4. Never look back

In depth with the bootlooping "gingerbread" caused bricks

Does it only boot up to the HTC screen and bootloop? Basically what I'm asking is, can Verizon Wireless tell if the phone is rooted or not? ;]

Yes.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App

So if I get someone stupid at the store, if they miss it and hand me a new device, I'm in the clear? And if I do it via mail, and I get the replacement before I mail my device in, how do they protect themselves that way?
edit: Take out the pronouns and add "one". I'm more interested for curiosity's sake, not frauding out VZW, I already went back to froyo, ha.

I don't know how they would know, but I believe they can, I think you may get a new/refurb but may see a charge for your bricked phone.

I can see it now... all these people turning in bricked phones for replacements under warranty.
Next thing you know Verizon will be checking every single phone returned to make sure there was no "tampering" that will void the mfg warranties.

Verizon employees are just regular people with regular 10$/hour jobs. The technicians aren't any sort of certified or even necessarily technologically inclined (not that they should be, they're not professionals with careers, they're working for an hourly paycheck). Hiring skilled technicians for these jobs would cost WAY too much dough so I dunno how they could feasibly do it.

miketoasty said:
Yes.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what you did there.
-sent via 1.21 giggawatts of android.

Yufice said:
Verizon employees are just regular people with regular 10$/hour jobs. The technicians aren't any sort of certified or even necessarily technologically inclined (not that they should be, they're not professionals with careers, they're working for an hourly paycheck). Hiring skilled technicians for these jobs would cost WAY too much dough so I dunno how they could feasibly do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's see, most of the people on here are just "regular" people as well. You don't think that if Verizon wanted to, they could not write up a simple script for any employee to follow to check obvious tampering (i.e booting into hboot and checking for s-off?)
I mean, sure they wouldn't catch all of them, but don't you think they would catch some? Not that they would do it, but I'm sure they keep track of what goes on over here in no-no land (at least for Verizon).
Let's face it, trying to get around the "system" is what causes cell phone companies to keep trying to lock us down. When it starts to affect their bottom line, don't you think they may take some steps to mitigate the problem?
Just my two cents.

Dnakaman said:
Let's see, most of the people on here are just "regular" people as well. You don't think that if Verizon wanted to, they could not write up a simple script for any employee to follow to check obvious tampering (i.e booting into hboot and checking for s-off?)
I mean, sure they wouldn't catch all of them, but don't you think they would catch some? Not that they would do it, but I'm sure they keep track of what goes on over here in no-no land (at least for Verizon).
Let's face it, trying to get around the "system" is what causes cell phone companies to keep trying to lock us down. When it starts to affect their bottom line, don't you think they make take some steps to mitigate the problem?
Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least one reported bootlooping in hboot also so not sure if it's long enough to see S-OFF. Another said he was able to get into hboot and flash stock firmware and S-ON but it wouldn't boot and stock recovery bootloop'd everytime it was accessed.

The bootloop itself would be a red flag. Employees in stores would not have to do anything but note: bootloop issue.
Since the phone is tied to you, maybe they send phones exhibiting the issue to a special group of (trained) techs, who will go into more indepth diagnostics.
If it is obvious the phone was rooted (not saying they can tell or not), 1 month later you see a charge for 500 bucks for a phone!
Yikes!
Again, just my two cents.

funkybside said:
I see what you did there.
-sent via 1.21 giggawatts of android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least someone did.
Verizon can't tell. Well they probably could if they wanted to but the time it would take to check the amount of phones they receive every day because of warranty replacements would not be worth it.
If I were you I would call and get a replacement the people on the phone just have you battery pull and try again then ship you a new one.
Finally, in the time it would take to tell that 1 phone was rooted they could have probably fixed 50 phones at that point and would void out any money they could charge you.
If it makes you feel better, I sent in a Droid 2 that was rooted and could still boot, got a new one with no charges.

I know this community is just "Regular" people, that's why I used the word regular; you have tons of arrogant posts of people saying "omg the verizon guy didn't even know what a kernel [email protected]!!!" when the verizon guy has no reason to care.
The problem is a lot of people in our community overestimate verizon/other carriers. Working at a verizon store, i've seen many of my less honest co workers do a warranty exchange over the phone/mail just because they didn't like the scratches they had put on the phone. A simple call to warranty saying "my phone reboots into a white screen sometimes" would get a new phone once every few months (up until the end of the one year warranty). Watching that go down really really really makes me doubt that there is some tech booting into HBOOT making sure it says S-ON. Even with a script, it's still a bunch of high school kids playing with a corporate giant's bank account: if they decide not to care and just give you a replacement, it doesn't effect them at all. I'm just curious if anyone working in a tech center can confirm that there is some second level testing going on.

Dnakaman said:
The bootloop itself would be a red flag. Employees in stores would not have to do anything but note: bootloop issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just wrong. When someone comes up with a phone with a problem, the procedure is pretty short:
pull battery.
Check settings.
Factory Reset.
RSD Lite is no where near our dell computers. There are no fancy screwdrivers with fancy technicians. I check settings and see if there is anything out of the ordinary.
If the phone is bootlooping/white screen/otherwise inoperable there are two choices:
1) Pull the battery. If there is no water damage, try to turn it on. If it doesn't work, tell them to call 1-800-922-0204 and talk to Verizon Customer Service
2) Pull the battery. If there is water damage or obviously physical damage, call Asurian and give them 99 bucks for a new phone. That's it.
What I was asking was am I the last link in the chain? Or is someone double checking my "work"?

PJnc284 said:
At least one reported bootlooping in hboot also so not sure if it's long enough to see S-OFF. Another said he was able to get into hboot and flash stock firmware and S-ON but it wouldn't boot and stock recovery bootloop'd everytime it was accessed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was me...as a last resort I used the first two files in this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1009423 and when I flashed the second file I did not receive the secitury warning so I'm taking it as the first one flashed.
When done flashing the frist two files in that thread my hboot version was S-ON

Yufice said:
I know this community is just "Regular" people, that's why I used the word regular; you have tons of arrogant posts of people saying "omg the verizon guy didn't even know what a kernel [email protected]!!!" when the verizon guy has no reason to care.
The problem is a lot of people in our community overestimate verizon/other carriers. Working at a verizon store, i've seen many of my less honest co workers do a warranty exchange over the phone/mail just because they didn't like the scratches they had put on the phone. A simple call to warranty saying "my phone reboots into a white screen sometimes" would get a new phone once every few months (up until the end of the one year warranty). Watching that go down really really really makes me doubt that there is some tech booting into HBOOT making sure it says S-ON. Even with a script, it's still a bunch of high school kids playing with a corporate giant's bank account: if they decide not to care and just give you a replacement, it doesn't effect them at all. I'm just curious if anyone working in a tech center can confirm that there is some second level testing going on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya, I see what you are saying.
This is my take on this. I've had an Android device since day 1 when I got my G1. All of the phones I had got rooted at some point.
In the "early" days, you had more, shall we say for a lack of a better term... technically advanced people rooting devices.
Fast forward a bit...many "regular" people are wanting to root, seeing all the benefits that the "chosen" few have been enjoying since rooting was possible.
As a community, we accommodated these "regular" people by creating a Staples "that was easy button", in the meantime, the Android user base is growing by leaps and bounds.
Fast forward to now...technology has changed, the OS has become more sophisticated. Companies see the huge profitability in Android, so they want to hold on tightly to their treasure (locked bootloaders, etc). So now the "easy" button, is not as easy to push anymore, yet us "regular" people still want the "easy" button..."Why can't I just do a one click method???!!!!"
As Android continues to grow and get a larger base of users, there is becoming more and more exposure to the "dark side" of rooting devices for customization. Now although it sounds like things may be changing here in the future as far as how easy it may become to build customizations, at this time, it is still kind of a no no, in the eyes of corporate America. That being said, sure right now Corp America is not too concerned, but as the user base grows, it is possible that the economy of scales may tip the other direction.
Ok, stepping off my soap box now, LOL

All I know is that MANY people here (XDA) are talking about committing fraud.... Then the SAME PEOPLE complain about encrypted bootloaders.

[Q] Should I format internal SD before ODIN?

I've basically had it with my Skyrocket, or rather, the Skyrocket that I have. It has always had atrocious battery life, exhibited weird behavior (like today when it lost nearly 20% of its battery in about 2 hours, and claiming the PHONE component was the prime culprit when I hadn't made a phone call) and also even after I unlocked the damn thing I still can't get it to force to 2G (yes I'm using an Unlocked RAT as well.) I'm still under warranty so I want a different one even if it is refurbished.
Anyways, I know the whole deal of using ODIN to return to Stock and making sure the Flash Counter isn't tripped, but in this day and age I'm paranoid about tech stuff having personal stuff getting stolen, so I'm tempted to wipe out the internal SD card, but I don't know if this is necessary and/or potentially harmful. Can I boot into Recovery and have it format my internal card, then ODIN back to Stock, or will this just cause more problems than it's worth?

dvandam said:
I've basically had it with my Skyrocket, or rather, the Skyrocket that I have. It has always had atrocious battery life, exhibited weird behavior (like today when it lost nearly 20% of its battery in about 2 hours, and claiming the PHONE component was the prime culprit when I hadn't made a phone call) and also even after I unlocked the damn thing I still can't get it to force to 2G (yes I'm using an Unlocked RAT as well.) I'm still under warranty so I want a different one even if it is refurbished.
Anyways, I know the whole deal of using ODIN to return to Stock and making sure the Flash Counter isn't tripped, but in this day and age I'm paranoid about tech stuff having personal stuff getting stolen, so I'm tempted to wipe out the internal SD card, but I don't know if this is necessary and/or potentially harmful. Can I boot into Recovery and have it format my internal card, then ODIN back to Stock, or will this just cause more problems than it's worth?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you can I have reformatted my internal several times before using Odin personally I just mount our to the pc and format that way. Spector7 has done they CWM using format emmc and said out worked fine but emmc is at your own risk I just format they pc
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium

Okay next stupid question...
Would it not be easier to just install a Stock Rom then install Stock Recovery to get my phone back to regular state as mentioned here after I do a formatting, as opposed to going through all the ODIN stuff, which, if done wrong, can trip the flash counter more easily and thus leaving me with some explaining to do at the AT&T store?

dvandam said:
Okay next stupid question...
Would it not be easier to just install a Stock Rom then install Stock Recovery to get my phone back to regular state as mentioned here after I do a formatting, as opposed to going through all the ODIN stuff, which, if done wrong, can trip the flash counter more easily and thus leaving me with some explaining to do at the AT&T store?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would Wipe after stock rom modem and recovery that way if it bricks att will need to fix it
Use the CWM method.

Well I returned to stock and am planning on going to AT&T after work to demand a replacement. Maybe I can use my charm and wit to negotiate into getting an upgrade to a S3 if they don't have any Skyrockets in stock, but then again I'm a guy who plays the lottery, so I'll keep my expectations in check. Worst case scenario and they just turn me down I'll brick the damn thing intentionally and then say "Oh it stopped working after the most recent update." Wish me luck.

TBQH, I'd just brick it in Kies by restoring to 2.3.5 and unpluggig during the ICS update. Tell them that you were updating to 4.0, and the thing wouldn't turn back on afterwards. If nothing else, AT&T will help get things with Sammy in order.
I wouldn't even bring up the other problems
Sent from my SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

T.J. Bender said:
TBQH, I'd just brick it in Kies by restoring to 2.3.5 and unpluggig during the ICS update. Tell them that you were updating to 4.0, and the thing wouldn't turn back on afterwards. If nothing else, AT&T will help get things with Sammy in order.
I wouldn't even bring up the other problems
Sent from my SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I have no idea how Kies works (never had a need to use it as I just flash everything) That's a program you install on your CPU right and then do the update by downloading in Kies and then plugging the phone into the CPU to download to it?

dvandam said:
Sorry I have no idea how Kies works (never had a need to use it as I just flash everything) That's a program you install on your CPU right and then do the update by downloading in Kies and then plugging the phone into the CPU to download to it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct go too the android development thread and check out Vimcom stick alright so just check it or its not bad
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using xda premium

Looks like I may have given myself a reason to return it before I could intentionally brick it via Kies..
I just ODINed back to stock and now the device is stuck in a boot loop. I double checked the download mode and it didn't trip the counter, so at least they can't accuse me of messing with it in that regard. I do hope that a new phone helps my problems, because quite frankly it's hard to stick with the Skyrocket in general after seeing the smoothness of the Galaxy Nexus (which my wife has) or the robust beast that is the SIII. I swear though if the Nexus 4 had LTE I'd have already ordered it, paid for same day shipping, and taken the entire day off to be able to play with it. Oh if ONLY they had included LTE... I would have paid $100 extra for that even..

Update on this..
Brought it to my local store, only to be referred to the one and only repair center in the state. They said they were going to try and restore the stock firmware onto the device. I started to get worried as I thought they may be able to undo what I had done. About 15 minutes later they gave up. I think they were trying to use Kies as opposed to ODIN. I didn't want to give on that I really knew my way around the phone and may have done the work myself. Anyways they gave me a new phone and sent me on my way.
I flashed CM10 M2 on my device again. As far as battery life goes.. it seems pretty comparable to what I had before. At this point I don't feel like going back to get yet ANOTHER Skyrocket. I suppose I'm just stuck with this battery life forever.
On a side note, even though for many of us this may be common knowledge, for everyone else, if your device is bricked, whether intentional or not, MAKE SURE YOU WIPE YOUR FLASH COUNT BEFORE BRINGING IN FOR SERVICE! The first thing the tech people are going to do is put your device into Download mode and hook it up to a CPU to flash original firmware. Unless they're COMPLETELY ignorant or don't care, if they see that custom Rom counter tripped then they're not going to touch your device.

dvandam said:
Update on this..
Brought it to my local store, only to be referred to the one and only repair center in the state. They said they were going to try and restore the stock firmware onto the device. I started to get worried as I thought they may be able to undo what I had done. About 15 minutes later they gave up. I think they were trying to use Kies as opposed to ODIN. I didn't want to give on that I really knew my way around the phone and may have done the work myself. Anyways they gave me a new phone and sent me on my way.
I flashed CM10 M2 on my device again. As far as battery life goes.. it seems pretty comparable to what I had before. At this point I don't feel like going back to get yet ANOTHER Skyrocket. I suppose I'm just stuck with this battery life forever.
On a side note, even though for many of us this may be common knowledge, for everyone else, if your device is bricked, whether intentional or not, MAKE SURE YOU WIPE YOUR FLASH COUNT BEFORE BRINGING IN FOR SERVICE! The first thing the tech people are going to do is put your device into Download mode and hook it up to a CPU to flash original firmware. Unless they're COMPLETELY ignorant or don't care, if they see that custom Rom counter tripped then they're not going to touch your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you get a brand new phone or a refurbished?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Not sure. I'd guess refurbished as they basically had buckets in on their wall that had a wide assortment of various phones for replacement. Overall though I'm not going to fight over refurbished vs getting a brand new one. I could just as easily get a bad refurb as I could get a lemon new.
Honestly at this point I'm more annoyed with the lack of "snappiness" of this phone. As I said it doesn't help that my wife has a Galaxy Nexus (which quite frankly even ran ICS better than my Skyrocket ever did) so to see how my system is "supposed" to run and not have it just bugs me. Seeing the Galaxy S3 in action makes me so envious with that gorgeous screen and snappy response just makes me regret more and more that day nearly a year ago when my 21 month old for grabbed my Nexus One and I didn't tackle her before she threw it down the stairs. Being forced to buy a phone well before I wanted to buy a new one as I wanted to wait for LTE deployment in my area, (which I STILL don't have BTW) and now regretting a year later just... ugh.. For all the crap Apple gets with their phones, at least it's easy to pick out which phone of theirs is the best available at any given time, and (assuming they don't change to the iPad release schedule) you can feel confident it'll stay top of the line for a year.
Sorry for the /rant there

dvandam said:
Not sure. I'd guess refurbished as they basically had buckets in on their wall that had a wide assortment of various phones for replacement. Overall though I'm not going to fight over refurbished vs getting a brand new one. I could just as easily get a bad refurb as I could get a lemon new.
Honestly at this point I'm more annoyed with the lack of "snappiness" of this phone. As I said it doesn't help that my wife has a Galaxy Nexus (which quite frankly even ran ICS better than my Skyrocket ever did) so to see how my system is "supposed" to run and not have it just bugs me. Seeing the Galaxy S3 in action makes me so envious with that gorgeous screen and snappy response just makes me regret more and more that day nearly a year ago when my 21 month old for grabbed my Nexus One and I didn't tackle her before she threw it down the stairs. Being forced to buy a phone well before I wanted to buy a new one as I wanted to wait for LTE deployment in my area, (which I STILL don't have BTW) and now regretting a year later just... ugh.. For all the crap Apple gets with their phones, at least it's easy to pick out which phone of theirs is the best available at any given time, and (assuming they don't change to the iPad release schedule) you can feel confident it'll stay top of the line for a year.
Sorry for the /rant there
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're confused.
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