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The End of an Era?

http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...-the-de/&category=classic&icid=eng_latest_art
The Thunderbolt apparently was difficult to root. I'm not a root expert but according to the article, the impression is that HTC will begin not being so developer friendly.
Thoughts?
Sent from my ADR6300 using......you get the idea.

I don't understand why these manufacturers, at the very least, can't treat their phones like the Nexus line: Ship with a locked bootloader, and give us an option to unlock it ourselves, and make it one-way. If they choose not to repair rooted devices, fine. But if I'm paying for the phone, I OWN it. I should be able to run the ROMS, kernels, and apps I want.

Product F(RED) said:
I don't understand why these manufacturers, at the very least, can't treat their phones like the Nexus line: Ship with a locked bootloader, and give us an option to unlock it ourselves, and make it one-way. If they choose not to repair rooted devices, fine. But if I'm paying for the phone, I OWN it. I should be able to run the ROMS, kernels, and apps I want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man I totally agree. I wish all Androids were treated like the Nexus line.
Sent from my ADR6300 using......you get the idea.

Because look at it this way. The people that like to fiddle with these things (everyone on this site) will be the majority of people who decide to root. We know what we do will void warranties and we know that, unless it's there's really really serious issue, we can fix these things ourselves. Besides, by giving us these bootloaders that can be unlocked and relocked, these manufacturers are actually screwing themselves MORE. HTC devices have always had bootloader security (NAND Lock). When you root, you can turn it off (aka S-OFF), but you can also turn it back on (S-ON) and then send the device in for repair or replacement. With the Nexus line, once the device is NAND unlocked, you can't re-lock it. I really don't understand the mentality behind the people who decide to lock things down.

So how long until HTC becomes Motorola?
Sent from my ADR6300 using......you get the idea.

Just wait, Some of us will go out and mess Verizon up by rooting overwriting their signed protection and do it just to prove they can't stop a dev or modder, all the companies try but none to date have succeeded, BUT it sucks that HTC is going down this line.

I think that they designed the system so that the good filers can relock it and bring it for warranty. If they wanted to make it so hard they could make them unrootable
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App

Product F(RED) said:
If they choose not to repair rooted devices, fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is that possibly fine?
Take the Motorola Defy as an apt example because I have one - my earpiece has just stopped working.
It's absolutely nothing to do with the OS or whether it's rooted, it's a pure hardware problem and has been known to afflict fully stock handsets as well as rooted/modded ones.
Why should the mere fact that I've fiddled with the OS on my phone excuse a manufacturer from fixing hardware problems that have not been caused by my fiddling?

Step666 said:
How is that possibly fine?
Take the Motorola Defy as an apt example because I have one - my earpiece has just stopped working.
It's absolutely nothing to do with the OS or whether it's rooted, it's a pure hardware problem and has been known to afflict fully stock handsets as well as rooted/modded ones.
Why should the mere fact that I've fiddled with the OS on my phone excuse a manufacturer from fixing hardware problems that have not been caused by my fiddling?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because they figure messing with the OS is apparently evil. I'm more than willing to bet this is more of a carrier pushed issue than the OEM because one big reason of rooting is to bypass carrier limits.
Sent from my ADR6300 using......you get the idea.

That's an excuse, not a reason.
There is no reasonable justification for manufacturers to take such a stance.
And even less of one for someone on here to apparently agree with such behaviour.

As one of the few founding members of the Dev Team AndIRC I got a good laugh out of this article, this is not the end of an era. All devices have had some challenges to rooting. The HTC Droid Eris which was our claim to fame took months to root and then finally we got some working methods, the fact that we owned the thunderbolt in less than a few hours (the article is too dramatic) is amazing, we have some very skilled devs and with time we get work done.

I think this is a carrier issue. Now that their all worried about tethering. Hey if you pay for the phone and service what you do with it is your problem. Its about making more money. If it gets worse I may downgrade to a metro! Omg
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

Captainkrtek said:
As one of the few founding members of the Dev Team AndIRC I got a good laugh out of this article, this is not the end of an era. All devices have had some challenges to rooting. The HTC Droid Eris which was our claim to fame took months to root and then finally we got some working methods, the fact that we owned the thunderbolt in less than a few hours (the article is too dramatic) is amazing, we have some very skilled devs and with time we get work done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incredible took a while too... Kinda seems like they're stepping it up a bit, generation after generation.
Sent from my Droid Incredible running Myn's Warm TwoPointTwo RLS5.3.

maybe the carriers got something to do with it? they want to charge extra for tethering and so on after all. if it would be too easy to unlock extra features and wipe devices of their bloatware they might miss out on additional money?

Well f*ck the carriers. If they're going to cripple a device, they have no right to charge what they do. Yes, you already pay about half of what they pay for the phone, BUT you pay back the difference over the term of your contract.

Product F(RED) said:
Well f*ck the carriers. If they're going to cripple a device, they have no right to charge what they do. Yes, you already pay about half of what they pay for the phone, BUT you pay back the difference over the term of your contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably more than that.
Sent from my Incredible with the XDA Premium App.

The G2 and MT4G took a couple of months to root but it happened. The amazing devs here will always find a way.
I completely agree that we own it and should be able to do what we want. If you expect the carrier to support it they have a right to only support their approved configuration.
I think hardware warranty and troubleshooting warranty should be separated.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

Why can't they just do it more like the PC's do.
If you screw up you can insert a bootable CD and restore the OS.
Of course a CD is not a ideal option for a phone, but I can see a SD card formated and coded in a way that it is able to restore the OS completely, even if the phone is bricked.
If the manufactures give such a card away (could just be a 512mb card I gues) then the consumer could hack the phone to dead and still have a backup thus keeping the manufacturer out of sight.
I mean, how hard could something like this be? ;p

dragonithe said:
Why can't they just do it more like the PC's do.
If you screw up you can insert a bootable CD and restore the OS.
Of course a CD is not a ideal option for a phone, but I can see a SD card formated and coded in a way that it is able to restore the OS completely, even if the phone is bricked.
If the manufactures give such a card away (could just be a 512mb card I gues) then the consumer could hack the phone to dead and still have a backup thus keeping the manufacturer out of sight.
I mean, how hard could something like this be? ;p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impossible for the carriers since to them rooting is horrible.
Sent from my Incredible with the XDA Premium App.

..................

[Q] Why not an eFuse?

So I just read about HTC new attempt at blocking custom firmware, most likely due to people bricking there phones and sending them back to T-Moble, Sprint, ect...
If HTC and other company's really have an issue with custom roms why dont they just implement some sort of eFuse if an unsigned/encrypted firmware/bootloader/recovery ect gets flashed over it will burn out and mark the phone as being altered but still usable?
Thoughts?

Its also possible that they are implementing this to help against people that think they know how to root phones from actually doing it. It could be to save the "average user" from screwing up and smurfing up their phones, so that way they dont get a bunch of phones back from tard buckets that can't follow directions on how to root. It also may be a tactic to say "just try our new UI and see if you like it while someone who is good with code takes more time to root." Because if there was no locks then the folks on xda would root the phone and never look back at what the manufacturer has put on the phone and worked hard to do. Just my .02 but i could be wrong.

Morder Chemiker said:
Its also possible that they are implementing this to help against people that think they know how to root phones from actually doing it. It could be to save the "average user" from screwing up and smurfing up their phones, so that way they dont get a bunch of phones back from tard buckets that can't follow directions on how to root. It also may be a tactic to say "just try our new UI and see if you like it while someone who is good with code takes more time to root." Because if there was no locks then the folks on xda would root the phone and never look back at what the manufacturer has put on the phone and worked hard to do. Just my .02 but i could be wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I take issue with "the manufacturer has put on the phone and worked hard to do"
If they had any sense they would make the phone way more sleek and functional before sending out to us. They do not, They just send out the "7/11" version of what the phone is capable of, and do that because they do not want to put the money into the research. Ergo ....XDA is born............

oka1 said:
I take issue with "the manufacturer has put on the phone and worked hard to do"
If they had any sense they would make the phone way more sleek and functional before sending out to us. They do not, They just send out the "7/11" version of what the phone is capable of, and do that because they do not want to put the money into the research. Ergo ....XDA is born............
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps I should have put that in quotes. They're just making minor changes, slapping a revison number on it and pushing it out to the masses. However they, being the manufactures, would consider this "working hard" part. I'm not supporting what they push out because there is WAY more talent from the devs here on XDA that put in more work and make things better.

Rather than HTC taking a page from Motorola's customer-hostility, there is an easy way for this to be done:
I'd recommend HTC use the fastboot oem-unlock method, with a well-written out warning screen on the device that once you tap OK, all your data hits the bit bucket [1], the phone is unlocked, and if you want any service on this device, the phone will need to be completely reflashed with a stock ROM from the cellular carrier who sold the device.
This way, it keeps the dummies from bricking their phone, while the dedicated modders can spend time working on better ROMs and not having to deal with eFuses and other crap.
[1]: It may seem bad that unlocking the phone for ROMs causes a purge of data, but just in case really clever malware tries to trigger an oem unlock, it would be completely removed from the device.

Stupid enough not to put the phone back to stockbefore returning it to ATT

Hi Guys, this is my story
Recently I have saw a black mark on my screen that would not go away. In addition there were some spots that were also visible.
I have went to a ATT service spot and ask for a replacement, the guy looked at my phone and agreed to give me a refurbished phone.
I am worried about two things:
1. the guy said that if the spots were caused by water I will pay 500$. Truthfully, the phone was anywhere near water but it does look like water damage....
2. The phone that ATT took was rooted.
Do you think that I have a big bill coming on?
* really worried...
Regards
B

borisb said:
Hi Guys, this is my story
Recently I have saw a black mark on my screen that would not go away. In addition there were some spots that were also visible.
I have went to a ATT service spot and ask for a replacement, the guy looked at my phone and agreed to give me a refurbished phone.
I am worried about two things:
1. the guy said that if the spots were caused by water I will pay 500$. Truthfully, the phone was anywhere near water but it does look like water damage....
2. The phone that ATT took was rooted.
Do you think that I have a big bill coming on?
* really worried...
Regards
B
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From my discussions with the att warranty department (ie. last three days), anything that they can constitute as user damaged, they will charge you 399 dollars for the refurbished phone.
So technically since the phone was rooted, unless the att tech reflashed it before sending it out, you have voided your warranty.

Even if its a HW issue?
What are the chances that they will reflash it? probably zero.....
Has anyone had something like this?

borisb said:
Even if its a HW issue?
What are the chances that they will reflash it? probably zero.....
Has anyone had something like this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if its a hardware issue, while the phone is rooted the warranty is voided.
I am not sure never worked at att, but I am guessing they just put it in a box and ship it.

The most they do is wipe user data.
In all honesty, I would argue with them if they do charge. Reason: " the guy at the stand did not check it first. " all blame should fall on him because he furnished you with another phone without checking it first.
ATT rep.. The phone you provided us is no longer under warranty due to it being voided.
You.. The guy at the store gave me a new phone and said everything was ok. Why am I now being charged. Did he break it? .
ATT Rep.. I am sorry for the confusion.........
Something like that, just play really dumb like you have no idea what there talking about, and chances are the will void the charge due to employee negligence.
Now if you signed something agreeing to take the phone with the chance of being charged anyways, you may be **** out of luck. But its worth a shot. I know when it was cingular, our returns department never even checked the phones, the most we checked for was the water mark stickers. And even that was not always checked. When we sent them off to the manufacturer for exchanges we shipped them out in bulk and by doing so they realy couldnt tell what came from who.
Sent from my VEGAn-TAB using Tapatalk

xKrisx said:
Now if you signed something agreeing to take the phone with the chance of being charged anyways, you may be **** out of luck. But its worth a shot. I know when it was cingular, our returns department never even checked the phones, the most we checked for was the water mark stickers. And even that was not always checked. When we sent them off to the manufacturer for exchanges we shipped them out in bulk and by doing so they realy couldnt tell what came from who.
Sent from my VEGAn-TAB using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The last part of that has changed since they use imei's now.

I think you will be fine. You giving the Warranty Department too much credit. You will be fine.

i guess it matters on how hard the warranty guyz wana work... hopefully they will get the phone on a friday lol good luck

A year or so ago i was buying a mytouch 3g in a tmobile store and the guy selling me the phone told me about how i could root the phone and wireless tether for free!
I even asked him if it would void the warrenty and he said it wouldnt!

I hope it will be OK.
Do they sent it to ATT o directly to HTC?

mudknot2005 said:
Even if its a hardware issue, while the phone is rooted the warranty is voided.
I am not sure never worked at att, but I am guessing they just put it in a box and ship it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. He taped it up before me (for one of my earlier captivates) and when I asked if they would reset or anything like that, he said it'll go directly to Samsung. Its a good thing I always wipe data before I return any phone.
So my guess is, for phones returned within 30 days that wud come as refurb, they will be within AT&T. But for any hardware issues they won't even bother to look into it and simply return the phone to manufacturer.

I sent a rooted Samsung captivate (told them it had random shut down issue which was a known issue it didn't have that prob gps was crappy) in that was rooted and nothing happened. A lot of times its not cost effective for a manufacturer to check all that stuff. Remember they have to pay a tech by the hour to do all that. Its usually more cost effective to just refurb and either resell or use as a replacement. I'm betting you'll be ok. I wouldn't worry about it until you hear from them. And like the other guy said play dumb.

Carlrobling said:
I sent a rooted Samsung captivate (told them it had random shut down issue which was a known issue it didn't have that prob gps was crappy) in that was rooted and nothing happened. A lot of times its not cost effective for a manufacturer to check all that stuff. Remember they have to pay a tech by the hour to do all that. Its usually more cost effective to just refurb and either resell or use as a replacement. I'm betting you'll be ok. I wouldn't worry about it until you hear from them. And like the other guy said play dumb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T doesn't bother until the manufacturer comes back. I remember reading on Captivate forums where some people got billed full amount after a couple months cos Samsung came back to AT&T charging them.

diablo009 said:
AT&T doesn't bother until the manufacturer comes back. I remember reading on Captivate forums where some people got billed full amount after a couple months cos Samsung came back to AT&T charging them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure it has happened. Not everyone gets lucky. I will say this ATT techs aren't very bright. When i first got my inspire (used from craigslist) i put my sim in and it said it had a sim lock. I called tech support they told me they didn't know what it was. Then tried to tell me it was cause someone tried to root it and failed. I later figured out on my own that it was a bad sim and after having it replaced it worked perfectly. So i wouldn't count on ATT but Htc its a roll of the dice. Keep us posted let us know how things turn out.

Some of you are giving far too much credit to the warranty department. I can't speak for AT&T as I don't work for them...But I do, do tech support for Philips Electronics... In all honesty, 1 out of every 15 people here is technologically advanced. Most people work here because its a job.
The way our warranties work is 2 ways.
1. We either say screw it and send another product
or
2. The product comes in for testing, we test it...If it works, it goes back, if not, we replace it. 99.99% of the time, the people testing the product are not smart enough to look for alterations to the software.
Again, this is how we work here, and I can't speak for AT&T.

tribalartgod said:
Some of you are giving far too much credit to the warranty department. I can't speak for AT&T as I don't work for them...But I do, do tech support for Philips Electronics... In all honesty, 1 out of every 15 people here is technologically advanced. Most people work here because its a job.
The way our warranties work is 2 ways.
1. We either say screw it and send another product
or
2. The product comes in for testing, we test it...If it works, it goes back, if not, we replace it. 99.99% of the time, the people testing the product are not smart enough to look for alterations to the software.
Again, this is how we work here, and I can't speak for AT&T.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not only not smart enough but like you said its just a job and they don't even bother to care. Like i said earlier there techs aren't very bright and tried to tell me someone tried to root the used inspire that i had. He even went around and asked other techs that's the only problem it could be he said. After some trial and error I figured it out called tech support back told the lady this time what i figured out she agreed and made note on my account that i could get a free sim. Glad i don't bother believing everything i hear lol and would rather do my own research first.
P.S. Its like that everywhere you go. People are all the same from job to job you see the same things everywhere lol.

BAleR said:
A year or so ago i was buying a mytouch 3g in a tmobile store and the guy selling me the phone told me about how i could root the phone and wireless tether for free!
I even asked him if it would void the warrenty and he said it wouldnt!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And if the rep said that they will give you a free phone every 6months you would believe that too?

jaw2012 said:
And if the rep said that they will give you a free phone every 6months you would believe that too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never said I believed it, just quoting him

When htc gets the phone they will wipe it and put it back to factory because there is no need of anything on the phone and anything done on the phone software issues could be the problem, so always best from there stand point to have it back to factory. That is exact reason any time u call about anything with pc or phone they want u to restore to factory.

Verizon's headache of customer service...

Restored my phone to stock two days ago and updated from Froyo to Gingerbread. Official HTC/Verizon update. Guess what? Broke my internet (in the best way to say it.) I had flaky 3G connection and no 4G at all. Most of the time, it would be at 1X or no data connectivity at all.
Went through all the steps of soft resets, pulling battery, factory resetting, toggling mobile network state, toggling data connectivity, toggling roaming, toggling between CDMA only and CDMA/LTE. You name it (in the range of things that didn't void warranty) and I did it. Nothing.
So I call customer service, and the woman said that she WOULD send out a SIM card, but it'd be faster for me to go to the Verizon store and they'd replace it for free, no hassle. So, went down to the store (It's only about five minutes from my home) got it switched out, bam. Had 3G, that was it. The rep was pretty busy and wanted to rush me out, so he said "It's fine, just give it ten minutes. Thanks for coming by." Twenty minutes later, sitting in my room and notice that...oh darn, no internet connectivity at all. Went through all the basic steps again, and nothing.
By this point, raging.
Call their tech support and they say that they're sending me a new thunderbolt (yay!) So, yesterday it came in (after I had to call Fed Ex and correct my address because the woman completely got it wrong lol) Unbox it, put in my SIM and SD cards and my battery, start it up. Worked just fine. Praise Jeebus! Left it that way for the rest of the night because I didn't need to use my phone, but when I made a call this morning, I realized that my phone speaker was making a grinding metallic buzzing like noise...
Great.
So I call in, and the techie I talked to told me to call Asurion since it was a CLNR (Made me mad since they said it'd be a brand new phone) and they told me I'd have to pay a deductible! So I hung up and called Verizon back (still using a rather polite tone after all the bull****) and quickly gave them the whole story and informed them of how Asurion wanted me to pay $100 for a new phone because the phone I had JUST gotten was broken and was shipped that way. They apologized, said they didn't know why Asurion would do that, and said I should have another Thunderbolt on my doorstep tomorrow.
If this one is busted as well, I'm going to throw away Mr. Nice Guy and raise hell. I've been with Verizon for almost four years now and they just keep giving me the runaround. This is absurd. Not the first time some crap like this has happened because of a malfunctioning phone.

Whenever you call VZW, you should ALWAYS choose the "cancel account" option at the teleprompt. It will automatically escalate your call to a high level tech who actually knows his/her **** and is authorized to make more changes than the low level peons.

If there's something wrong with the one they send me tomorrow, I'm calling them right off the bat and asking to be transferred to their retention department lol. Same thing, I guess. I'm going to rage and tell them give me a NEW phone. Not dealing with another broken refurbished phone. Some warranty THAT is.
What makes me even more mad is the fact that they sent me to Asurion when I found out that Asurion no longer handles ANY of the warranty issues. So they knew I'd be charged to pay for a new phone because THEY screwed up.

I had the exact same thing happen...no 4g. They sent me a new SIM, nothing. Sent me a new phone, buzzing in the earpiece. Only difference was that I happened to notice it right away when I was testing the phone. Called them back and they just sent me another replacement phone, no questions. Never had to go through Asurion because it was broken when I got it. Weird that they made you do that. Second new (refurb) phone I got worked great and 4G is back.

The Thunderbolt I got today was a brick. Seriously? lol. I called Verizon to cancel my account due to all the bullsh*t and the supervisor said she'd send me a brand new Rezound instead of a CLNR Thunderbolt. Well, nice knowing the Tbolt and everyone on the forum. Best of luck to all the devs, I hope Twistd gets ICS up and running for you guys

I've been with VZW for 12 years, no bad experiences...wish they'd send me a Rezound!

It doesn't seem like Verizon had bad customer service. You got a lemon of a phone.
They're sending you a brand new Rezound. Doesn't sound like bad customer service to me.
Sent from my HTC Mecha using xda premium

OP...So YOU broke your phone (voided warranty, Verizon needs not offer any assistance in fixing it). Then blame them for the software issue you created? To top if off you get a "free" upgrade from Verizon (refurbished of course), and then are surprised that it is not of the highest quality. Sounds like you need to jump back in to reality, as well as take responsibility for your own actions before "raging" against others for them. You should be jumping for joy that you got a new phone, not crying about it.
I have had to deal with all major cell phone vendors as part of my job. I can tell you without any question what so ever that Verizon has by FAR the best customer service of all cell phone vendors.

turbosrrgood said:
OP...So YOU broke your phone (voided warranty, Verizon needs not offer any assistance in fixing it). Then blame them for the software issue you created? To top if off you get a "free" upgrade from Verizon (refurbished of course), and then are surprised that it is not of the highest quality. Sounds like you need to jump back in to reality, as well as take responsibility for your own actions before "raging" against others for them. You should be jumping for joy that you got a new phone, not crying about it.
I have had to deal with all major cell phone vendors as part of my job. I can tell you without any question what so ever that Verizon has by FAR the best customer service of all cell phone vendors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. You don't have outsourced customer service and they actually care about how happy you are.
Geez, the whiney kids and their sense of entitlement.
Sent from my HTC Mecha using xda premium

turbosrrgood said:
OP...So YOU broke your phone (voided warranty, Verizon needs not offer any assistance in fixing it). Then blame them for the software issue you created? To top if off you get a "free" upgrade from Verizon (refurbished of course), and then are surprised that it is not of the highest quality. Sounds like you need to jump back in to reality, as well as take responsibility for your own actions before "raging" against others for them. You should be jumping for joy that you got a new phone, not crying about it.
I have had to deal with all major cell phone vendors as part of my job. I can tell you without any question what so ever that Verizon has by FAR the best customer service of all cell phone vendors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u realize he said he went back to stock....went through the update THEN he had connectivity issues...then 2 lemons later they decide to give them a phone. also, the rant was BEFORE the new phone...

He was very patient and calm until the 4th time he was wronged by either broken phone/software in which case i believe was not his fault, then he raged, tbh some people would have already raged way before this guy did. Also i dont think he meant verizon is bad at customer service but he was frustated after getting like 3 diff. broken phones which is also not his fault. Just my 2 cents
Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using xda premium

turbosrrgood said:
OP...So YOU broke your phone (voided warranty, Verizon needs not offer any assistance in fixing it). Then blame them for the software issue you created? To top if off you get a "free" upgrade from Verizon (refurbished of course), and then are surprised that it is not of the highest quality. Sounds like you need to jump back in to reality, as well as take responsibility for your own actions before "raging" against others for them. You should be jumping for joy that you got a new phone, not crying about it.
I have had to deal with all major cell phone vendors as part of my job. I can tell you without any question what so ever that Verizon has by FAR the best customer service of all cell phone vendors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha. Ha ha ha. I had forgotten I posted here, actually.
A software issue I created? No. I don't call returning to their stock image then updating to THEIR update MY issue. The rep I spoke with said that it wasn't an unknown issue. No, I only got a "free" upgrade after they sent me a phone with a broken ear speaker and one that didn't even turn off.
I'd be glad about the new phones if they weren't junked as well. My first Rezound pretty much burned out, and the new one has a yellow tinted screen with pink soft keys instead of red and horrible light leakage.
I understand where you'd be coming from if I had said "wahwahwah" about it all.
But Jesus, you can't tell me if you had gotten two bad phones in a row you wouldn't be raging. And now I've gotten two more that were junk.
Please, tell me more about how I have to jump into reality.

CanesDrew said:
Absolutely. You don't have outsourced customer service and they actually care about how happy you are.
Geez, the whiney kids and their sense of entitlement.
Sent from my HTC Mecha using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sense of entitlement? Right.
Yeah, they care so much that one of them sent me to Asurion when it was clearly a warranty issue with the first refurbished that I got. Not to mention the woman that told me she had written a few notes on my system to aid in the process after all of it to get the Rezound...when she never did. The next rep I spoke with had no clue what I was talking about. So, once again, sense of entitlement? Please. Do elaborate after you understand that their software update broke my radio connection, the second phone I got was busted, the third was busted, the first Rezound burned out after a week, and the new Rezound has horrible build quality issues.
Might want to actually read my first post before you try to act like I'm being a "Waaaaaaaaah gimme new phone because I had one issue!"
Out of maybe 12 times I've had to call Verizon due to busted phones, I've had 2-3 that I would actually rate as satisfactory. The others certainly weren't pleasant. I know the busted phones are completely HTC's fault (at the time of the original post, I thought it was Verizon who certified the devices. Yes, ignorance on my part), but that doesn't excuse how many times I've pretty much gotten very cold and bitter treatment.

Is there a point to this thread? If not, mods please close.

th3_g00b said:
u realize he said he went back to stock....went through the update THEN he had connectivity issues...then 2 lemons later they decide to give them a phone. also, the rant was BEFORE the new phone...
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Click to collapse
I think he himself caused a mismatch in radios. I don't believe that a factory reset that takes you back to Froyo replaces the radios with Froyo compatible radios. In any case it sounds like a case of rooted incompatible radios that was causing his issues.
-Frank.
Sent using Tapatalk 2

I understand the OP's frustrations. I have been with Verizon for 6 years now after my company was bought out by them. I could have went somewhere else at that point but I stayed for the sake of the reputation I had known Verizon to have among others I knew.
I went through a point of time where 2 of us on the plan had bad phones, known issues etc. They shipped out warranty replacements and they didn't work right either etc. I have had good customer service from them before, but I think its really just the luck of the draw with them. We went through 12 different shipments before they finally decided to send us phones that worked. This was not the fault of any screwing with the phone's technology, this was stock.
In Verizon's defense, this will always be an issue. Companies with high customer service ratings will always have at least 1-2 peons that don't care working for them. And it may just be the luck to get that 1 peon on the phone at the time....
Don't give up on a company because of one bad situation if you have many others to look at as good. They are a good company (for the most part) with some bad seeds...it happens to most if not all.
Glad to see your phone was taken care of!!!

Rooting Phones When On Verizon Edge?

Hey folks,
Does anyone know for certain (not speculation) how Verizon treats phones that have been rooted when you go to trade them in on the Edge program? Will a phone that's been rooted in the past be denied for Edge trade-in?
Thanks

So I called Verizon. They said that I would need to remove root in order to trade it in or "Edge-Up". I've read recently though that even if you unroot your phone, carriers can now detect the fact that at one point time it was rooted. Is this true?

MSmithXDA said:
So I called Verizon. They said that I would need to remove root in order to trade it in or "Edge-Up". I've read recently though that even if you unroot your phone, carriers can now detect the fact that at one point time it was rooted. Is this true?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
most phones can be returned to stock without a trace of root as long as the stock files are available.
check your phones specific forum for return to stock guides and methods to remove root indicators if that applies.
calling verizon and asking about root really was not wise. they usually make notes on your account when you call for future reference.
you may not have an issue later from calling them, but you defiantly stirred the hornets nest, so it is possible you will.
---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------
MSmithXDA said:
Hey folks,
Does anyone know for certain (not speculation) how Verizon treats phones that have been rooted when you go to trade them in on the Edge program? Will a phone that's been rooted in the past be denied for Edge trade-in?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
btw,
it doesnt matter what plan you are on, they dont allow rooting period.
as far as they are concerned, "when they find out it is rooted", your warranty is void, returns are not accepted, and trade ups are denied.

bweN diorD said:
calling verizon and asking about root really was not wise. they usually make notes on your account when you call for future reference.
you may not have an issue later from calling them, but you defiantly stirred the hornets nest, so it is possible you will.
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Click to collapse
Well I didn't tell them it was me :silly: I pretended to be a new customer interested in service and just had these hypothetical questions. But they didn't have my account # or anything to trace it back to me. Thanks for the info though!

MSmithXDA said:
Well I didn't tell them it was me :silly: I pretended to be a new customer interested in service and just had these hypothetical questions. But they didn't have my account # or anything to trace it back to me. Thanks for the info though!
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Click to collapse
I hope you didn't call them from the phone that's on your account.
I really wouldn't worry about returning a phone that is/was rooted, unless perhaps it was a Samsung with Knox tripped and/or a yellow triangle. It's simply not cost effective for them to check every phone. The reps at the store aren't trained for that sort of thing, and when it goes back to wherever they get refurbished, it's only the hardware that gets tested, and they flash a new factory image. They have to flash a new image, because even after a factory reset, sensitive data can still exist in the memory on the phone (data isn't actually deleted when you delete it, until it gets overwritten, formatted, or you use a special app that does that sort of thing). Certain things can remain the same after doing a factory reset as well. I did a factory reset on a Nexus 4 rooted with Towelroot, and root remained.
Case in point: When I was with Verizon, I rooted my Razr Maxx. I was new to this whole "root" thing (I did it to bypass their hotspot crap). I was having a problem with the Play Store; it wouldn't let me purchase/download ROM Toolbox Pro, regardless of if I did it on my phone or off the website. So I got clever and deleted it (with a warezed Titanium - I'm not proud, I paid for the legit version later) and reinstalled it. And every time I tried, the Play Store would FC instantly.
So I did a factory reset, and WTF? The Play Store was GONE. Some bloatware was back, like the Madden NFL demo and some stupid cartoony golf game, but the Play Store was GONE. Not so clever, I guess. So I bit the bullet and took it to a Verizon store, told them I did a factory reset and Play Store was gone (I left out the other stuff). They googled it for like half an hour before giving up and ordering me a warranty replacement.
At one point, a rep did ask me if I hacked it - I played dumb (how do you hack a phone?). If they were trained or experienced in the sort of things we do, they would have known that the only way this could have happened was if the phone was rooted and I did something. And, if I wasn't such a n00b, I would have known to change Play Store to a system app and it probably would have worked fine (this occurred to me the day after). I got the replacement, and never heard anything about the old phone. I didn't feel too bad about "screwing" them in to giving me a new (refurb) phone, because when I got the replacement, I saw that the screen on the old one was dim, yellow, and sickly compared to the newer one, so apparently there was something actually wrong with it. Months later, the battery on the replacement expanded to the point that it popped the screen loose. The battery expanded on it's replacement too. But that's beside the point.
The point is, when you return a phone, it gets tossed into a pile, and that pile gets sent back to whatever it is they do with them. The sales reps aren't trained for that sort of thing - if you have a problem they don't know off the top of their head, they just google it on the iPads they carry around, and if they come across a site like XDA, they probably ignore it because the lingo and jargon here is gibberish to them (hell, most of it's still gibberish to me, and I've been learning all I can for 2 years). So it gets tossed in to a pile and sent wherever, and wherever it's sent gets hundreds of piles a day, and it's simply not cost effective to check every device. The parts get refurbed, the factory images get flashed (to eliminate any residual sensitive data and ensure the version is up to date), and that's that.
So I really, really, wouldn't worry about it. Unless it's a Samsung and you tripped Knox, have a yellow triangle, or it reads as "custom" or whatever. If you unlocked the bootloader, relock it. Beyond that, don't worry about it. I'm not saying it's impossible that something might happen and they "find out", but it's extremely unlikely. And unlikely to have repercussions. Remember, they want your money. Above all, they want your money. Are they going to keep getting your money if they piss you off by not honoring a phone exchange plan that you're already paying more for? Are they going to keep getting your money if you're dissatisfied and choose to switch providers? Unlikely. A new phone to them is a couple hundred bucks. One more year of service is a grand. Don't worry about it.

Planterz said:
I hope you didn't call them from the phone that's on your account.
I really wouldn't worry about returning a phone that is/was rooted, unless perhaps it was a Samsung with Knox tripped and/or a yellow triangle. It's simply not cost effective for them to check every phone. The reps at the store aren't trained for that sort of thing, and when it goes back to wherever they get refurbished, it's only the hardware that gets tested, and they flash a new factory image. They have to flash a new image, because even after a factory reset, sensitive data can still exist in the memory on the phone (data isn't actually deleted when you delete it, until it gets overwritten, formatted, or you use a special app that does that sort of thing). Certain things can remain the same after doing a factory reset as well. I did a factory reset on a Nexus 4 rooted with Towelroot, and root remained.
Case in point: When I was with Verizon, I rooted my Razr Maxx. I was new to this whole "root" thing (I did it to bypass their hotspot crap). I was having a problem with the Play Store; it wouldn't let me purchase/download ROM Toolbox Pro, regardless of if I did it on my phone or off the website. So I got clever and deleted it (with a warezed Titanium - I'm not proud, I paid for the legit version later) and reinstalled it. And every time I tried, the Play Store would FC instantly.
So I did a factory reset, and WTF? The Play Store was GONE. Some bloatware was back, like the Madden NFL demo and some stupid cartoony golf game, but the Play Store was GONE. Not so clever, I guess. So I bit the bullet and took it to a Verizon store, told them I did a factory reset and Play Store was gone (I left out the other stuff). They googled it for like half an hour before giving up and ordering me a warranty replacement.
At one point, a rep did ask me if I hacked it - I played dumb (how do you hack a phone?). If they were trained or experienced in the sort of things we do, they would have known that the only way this could have happened was if the phone was rooted and I did something. And, if I wasn't such a n00b, I would have known to change Play Store to a system app and it probably would have worked fine (this occurred to me the day after). I got the replacement, and never heard anything about the old phone. I didn't feel too bad about "screwing" them in to giving me a new (refurb) phone, because when I got the replacement, I saw that the screen on the old one was dim, yellow, and sickly compared to the newer one, so apparently there was something actually wrong with it. Months later, the battery on the replacement expanded to the point that it popped the screen loose. The battery expanded on it's replacement too. But that's beside the point.
The point is, when you return a phone, it gets tossed into a pile, and that pile gets sent back to whatever it is they do with them. The sales reps aren't trained for that sort of thing - if you have a problem they don't know off the top of their head, they just google it on the iPads they carry around, and if they come across a site like XDA, they probably ignore it because the lingo and jargon here is gibberish to them (hell, most of it's still gibberish to me, and I've been learning all I can for 2 years). So it gets tossed in to a pile and sent wherever, and wherever it's sent gets hundreds of piles a day, and it's simply not cost effective to check every device. The parts get refurbed, the factory images get flashed (to eliminate any residual sensitive data and ensure the version is up to date), and that's that.
So I really, really, wouldn't worry about it. Unless it's a Samsung and you tripped Knox, have a yellow triangle, or it reads as "custom" or whatever. If you unlocked the bootloader, relock it. Beyond that, don't worry about it. I'm not saying it's impossible that something might happen and they "find out", but it's extremely unlikely. And unlikely to have repercussions. Remember, they want your money. Above all, they want your money. Are they going to keep getting your money if they piss you off by not honoring a phone exchange plan that you're already paying more for? Are they going to keep getting your money if you're dissatisfied and choose to switch providers? Unlikely. A new phone to them is a couple hundred bucks. One more year of service is a grand. Don't worry about it.
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Click to collapse
the reason root remained after you did a factory reset is, factory reset does nothing more than wipe the data partition. root code is not inserted there, so it will remain in tact with the exception of the su app unless it is installed in system/apps..
the fact that you had bloatware return after a reset is odd, i have never heard this happen before. resetting does not modify, restore, or change the system partition in any way.
as for them finding the root, i agree it is unlikely, but it can and has happened. also, it doesn't have to happen right away. there have been several reports of charges for replacement phones applied to your bill, from modifications found after the return.
as for them caring if you leave for another carrier, they don't, plain and simple. this has been shown countless times over the years. many people leave them every day, and they don't do the slightest thing to try and stop them.
i seriously doubt they will let you strong arm them by threatening to leave after they find out you returned a modified phone.