Database Info

[Q] Predictions on the bootloader

Since I have very little technical knowledge, I want to ask the people who do: Do you think the signed HTC bootloaders can be cracked?
Are they bulletproof? Is it just a matter of time? No idea?

Lord Panzer said:
Since I have very little technical knowledge, I want to ask the people who do: Do you think the signed HTC bootloaders can be cracked?
Are they bulletproof? Is it just a matter of time? No idea?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My knowledge on the topic is probably as limited as yours, but consider this: if someone figured out how to crack an iPhone, someone will undoubtedly figure out how to crack a signed bootloader.

The SE X10 bootloader was locked too and xda devs have unlocked it...though it took them a year to do it
Now knowing that hTC devices are way more popular here in xda, the unlocking process will take much less time, the incredible S are already temp rooted and it wouldn't take much time to be permanently rooted.
Now if you want to play on the safe side and love HTC then buy the DHD, it's still a stong device,rooted and plenty of roms

I like to believe my knowledge is limited as well.
From what I understand, a signed bootloader will require a leak of an internal engineering build to unlock. This was done on the HTC Thunderbolt for example.
An encrypted bootloader is tougher to unlock. This is why most of us won't buy a Motorola device.

By the way we still don't have any confirmation if it will be locked or not.
Htc said that their approach to security is "unchanged." If their approach is unchanged from devices like the Incredible S, which has an encrypted bootloader, the Sensation is unlikely to see custom firmware. If, however, their approach is unchanged from the Thunderbolt, then we are in luck: that phone has already been unlocked and rooted.

kgbkny said:
My knowledge on the topic is probably as limited as yours, but consider this: if someone figured out how to crack an iPhone, someone will undoubtedly figure out how to crack a signed bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that Apple products seem to be very crackable, sometimes even before the launch date.

Once again they are not signed they are locked meaning there is a possible way to crack them. Motorola signed theirs. HTC just locked them in a different way. Making harder for us to crack. Bootloader locked and bootloader are signed two different things.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

Perhaps but when you see the poor Incredible S users who tried everything possible to root it and couldn't...

vegetaleb said:
Perhaps but when you see the poor Incredible S users who tried everything possible to root it and couldn't...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ps3 couldn't be hack someone did it its mostly about popularity. They said the same thing about the g2 and the thunder bolt it got hacked. Its not impossible.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

Not if, but when?
For me personally, the issue is not if the Sensation will be rooted, but WHEN. I'm personally thinking I might not want any new Android device before its rooted. I mean, although the Sensation has a lot to offer, unrooted it's going to be a resource hog that I won't be able to manage as I'd desire. I won't even be able to use Titanium Backup and some of my other apps till its rooted.
So I'm debating with myself about holding off on getting the Sensation till after it's rooted and an "unroot" path is also developed.
The only form of Android I've ever known is ROOTED, so going to a locked down version is not a pleasing option to me.

See this is what I love about Android and Opensource in general, and XDA in particular. You can go directly to the best and brightest and get answers! Thanks, everyone!

It shouldn't be a problem stock as bad as other phones gingerbread fixes alot of problems. The real fix is from ext4 but. It shouldn't be as bad as before though I hate sense the only thing I like is the camera apps ui and the fact that it doesn't lose data speeds.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

The main thing I like in Sensation is the Sense 3.0, but the low benchmark score is a clear indication that it needs root to speed up some things like kernel OC.
Rooting a phone is not sufficiant, you need a bunch of happy devs to build roms and kernels, look at the beautiful xperia Arc for exemple, it has same power as DHD and its rooted for 2 weeks, but due to lack of devs we still don't have recovery nor roms,it's like if you bought a ferrari but can't drive it because of lack of petrol
HTC devices are the most loved ones at XDA for the time being and they get tons of roms BUT things can change if HtC wanna lock all their new devices like the Incredible S, even Paul from Modaco is not willing to buy the Sensation if it will be locked like IS, the SGS2 will win the hearts of the devs here...

vegetaleb said:
The main thing I like in Sensation is the Sense 3.0, but the low benchmark score is a clear indication that it needs root to speed up some things like kernel OC.
Rooting a phone is not sufficiant, you need a bunch of happy devs to build roms and kernels, look at the beautiful xperia Arc for exemple, it has same power as DHD and its rooted for 2 weeks, but due to lack of devs we still don't have recovery nor roms,it's like if you bought a ferrari but can't drive it because of lack of petrol
HTC devices are the most loved ones at XDA for the time being and they get tons of roms BUT things can change if HtC wanna lock all their new devices like the Incredible S, even Paul from Modaco is not willing to buy the Sensation if it will be locked like IS, the SGS2 will win the hearts of the devs here...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before there was ever Android, there was Windows Mobile and locked ROMs. And this very same site, XDA Developers was the place to come to unlock and get new ROMs.
So HTC locking down Android devices is old hat, as is unlocking them .
This site's history is rooted in HTC devices and so long as HTC makes something even marginally competitive I don't see it changing. The developers here have been hacking HTC devices before Android came to town. In fact, Android is the new kid on this block . Here, a lock is simply an exciting challenge to overcome, and a source for some developer to earn our $upport .
Don't count on a lock in the Sensation causing any wave of developers here to go running to Samsung.

Can you say the same to Incredible S users?

vegetaleb said:
Can you say the same to Incredible S users?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Inc S is Verizon right? We all know in the US VZW is the largest CDMA Carrier cell co. They usually get what they want. To me VZW is like Steve Jobs bunch of corporate jerks
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

I recall the old Touch Pro 2 also took a little time to crack, but it was also unlocked. Even the old Treo Pro was eventually cracked, both the GSM and CDMA versions. They all get unlocked, some take a little more time than others.
Which is why my only question is when? The Sensation being a device that will be with GSM carriers, having a good degree of pre-sale marketing and being made by HTC. It's going to have development somewhere to the level we see with the HD2. Most of us HD2 owners that frequent this site moved to Android and the Sensation is the next suitable upgrade.

epsix said:
Inc S is Verizon right? We all know in the US VZW is the largest CDMA Carrier cell co. They usually get what they want. To me VZW is like Steve Jobs bunch of corporate jerks
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Incredible S is a GSM phone that is attracting attention since it has T-Mobile's AWS band support. Verizon is coming out with a dual-mode GSM/CDMA sister of the Inc S.

Htc sensation 4G.. Worthy upgrade for the G2?

Yeah i know you've all seen that gorgeus thing. Anyone going to upgrade to it? I'm kinda saving up for it. Yeah i know it's the latest "next" great from HTC but look at the benifits:
Our first 4.3 android headset!! FINALLY!
FFC
Great Hardware
Beautiful Sense 3.0 installed.
Cons: no keyboard.. but honestly THATS IT.
Yes i love my keyboard i hardly ever use the touchscreen to type but for that phone I would get used to it. And no I'm not just envying it because I never wanted the SGS or SGS2 even though those phones are nice. I just really.. REALLY want a 4.3 inch screen device, and this one is looking perfect. And if you talk about that HD2 or HD7 being 4.3 inch devices, they aren't Android Native.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App

To be honest its better than the G2 in every way possible except for as you mentioned the keyboard. I love the G2s keyboard but will be more then willing to give it up for such an awesome handset like the Sensation.
The problem is however, The Sensation has been locked down like crazy! I mean locked booatloader, kernel images, and recovery mode. That is the MAJOR downside of it especially since the G2 has such great development; The Sensation will probably never have it

I had a really good play on a sensation today and WOW really WOW, I have never wanted a phone so badly. Sense 3.0 is really really fu*kin awesome.
But that bootloader issue really is a deal breaker.
Sent from my HTC Vision

Agree with Vondam. And also it's sort of a different device goal. The g2 is like the g1: stock android, keyboard, no frills.
The sensation has Sense. That's fine but not necessarily an upgrade.

Lol not sure why this is even a discussion (obviously i know why it is i'm saying it sarcastically). It's pretty obvious it's better in every way except for the keyboard. Not sure what anyone is expecting to learn here
TAKE THIS POST WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. Dont jump down my throat acting all crazy.

All of the above. But the killer IS the locked down hardware. That's a deal-breaker. Well... that and the thought of being an AT&T customer. But as to the phone itself, what good is all that mouth-watering HTC goodness if it's locked down tighter than the ADSEG unit at Folsom prison?? You will HAVE to wait on HTC for updates and you will HAVE to run Sense. No choice.
That being said, I do have faith in the XDA community. People a hell of a lot smarter than me have figured out how to crack the security of many devices, so maybe this otherwise awesome phone will "see the light". I just don't get why HTC is being so hostile to the rooting/dev community. What do they have to gain? If a company makes a phone that is unlocked and relatively easy to root, then there isn't much that can be screwed up. They will appeal to the vast mainstream who don't know or care about rooting while attracting the "small" portion of users who like to geek out and flash custom ROMS. Seems win/win to me. Maybe that is why Samsung and Motorola, who have both been anti-modding, are apparently changing their tunes.

Plan was to get the Sensation but I'm also seriously considering the SGS2 over the Sensation.

killswitch11 said:
All of the above. But the killer IS the locked down hardware. That's a deal-breaker. Well... that and the thought of being an AT&T customer. But as to the phone itself, what good is all that mouth-watering HTC goodness if it's locked down tighter than the ADSEG unit at Folsom prison?? You will HAVE to wait on HTC for updates and you will HAVE to run Sense. No choice.
That being said, I do have faith in the XDA community. People a hell of a lot smarter than me have figured out how to crack the security of many devices, so maybe this otherwise awesome phone will "see the light". I just don't get why HTC is being so hostile to the rooting/dev community. What do they have to gain? If a company makes a phone that is unlocked and relatively easy to root, then there isn't much that can be screwed up. They will appeal to the vast mainstream who don't know or care about rooting while attracting the "small" portion of users who like to geek out and flash custom ROMS. Seems win/win to me. Maybe that is why Samsung and Motorola, who have both been anti-modding, are apparently changing their tunes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there what, maybe one or two motorola phones if that where any hacker ever cracked the bootloader? With bounties in the 1000's of dollars to whoever does it, and they have all been working on it for years, to no avail. It's not gonna happen. If it's locked, it's locked. Maybe someday we will have that breakthrough moment but it aint right now.

boost3d23 said:
Plan was to get the Sensation but I'm also seriously considering the SGS2 over the Sensation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you but it's the age old story. Perfect hardware, ridiculously garbagy software support. No updates, and with touchjizz integration covering every inch of the thing, even xda can't put 2.3 on hardware that only has 2.2 without breaking at the very LEAST the gps, if not the wifi and the rest. So just be prepared for no updates. They claim to have changed, actions speak louder than words. Take the lesson from history that has been proven time and time again. They sell it and abandon it.

killswitch11 said:
I just don't get why HTC is being so hostile to the rooting/dev community. What do they have to gain? If a company makes a phone that is unlocked and relatively easy to root, then there isn't much that can be screwed up. They will appeal to the vast mainstream who don't know or care about rooting while attracting the "small" portion of users who like to geek out and flash custom ROMS. Seems win/win to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally with you. Seems like they are scared of losing money on people bricking their phones by screwing up rooting or flashing ROMs, and sending their phones in for warranty replacement/repair. But I wonder if there is even a significant number of people doing that, to be a monetary concern. It would seem like the number of potential customers lost because they are turned off by locked-down bootloaders, etc. would be more than the small number that mess up rooting/flashing (and try to pass it off as a warranty issue).
Really too bad, this seems to be HTC's new tune. I love their devices, but will certainly think twice about buying another phone from them, if its so locked down.

Exactly my point fellas. Honestly we are running sense 3.0 right now. With the insane locked down hardware this phone has, it kinda turns me off to the device. I hate keeping something stock. And not everyone likes sense, but likes the device itself. Does it being locked down playing a major role in your purchase of this phone?
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App

Shaquiel Harris said:
Exactly my point fellas. Honestly we are running sense 3.0 right now. With the insane locked down hardware this phone has, it kinda turns me off to the device. I hate keeping something stock. And not everyone likes sense, but likes the device itself. Does it being locked down playing a major role in your purchase of this phone?
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. I'll probably be getting the Galaxy S 2 because of it. Seriously though, none of their previous devices were ever locked down like this and now they come and pull this stuff out...sigh. Oh well, Samsung will be my choice until either the peeps at XDA manage to break it or HTC themselves decide to put their **** together.

Common guys, friends, members please sign
YES WE CAN DO IT YES WE CAN. WE HAVE THE POWER, WE ARE CLIENTS AND MONEY ARE OURS, ITS ON OUR OWN RISK WE ROOT OUR DEVICES. SO GUYS FRIENDS MEMBERS AND OTHER ANDROID FORUMS
LETS SIGN THE PETITIONS.
http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/#signatures
MONEY IS POWERFUL ENOUGH TO OVER RULE THE HTC OWN RULES.

I know the locked bootloader is a big bummer, but the phone is already great out of the box, so no need fix anything. plus, the phone is already on gingerbread and it will get updates for at least 2 years and by that time, the bootloader should be unlocked. So I say go for the Sensation. Just like I am.

beautyangel said:
YES WE CAN DO IT YES WE CAN. WE HAVE THE POWER, WE ARE CLIENTS AND MONEY ARE OURS, ITS ON OUR OWN RISK WE ROOT OUR DEVICES. SO GUYS FRIENDS MEMBERS AND OTHER ANDROID FORUMS
LETS SIGN THE PETITIONS.
http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/#signatures
MONEY IS POWERFUL ENOUGH TO OVER RULE THE HTC OWN RULES.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Count me in! Not sure that it will make even a slight dent, but wow... over 4,000 people so far think this locked bootloader business SUCKS! I'm somehow sure the number of people who don't do their homework, brick their phones doing something stupid, and send it in claiming a warranty replacement does not touch this number. And that's just the people who actually sign this thing!

As much as I like HTC & the Sensation, the locked bootloader is a deal breaker. They are headed down the wrong path for the XDA gang!

You see twitter.com/HTC? They are "reviewing" their boot loader policy.

[Q] Opinion needed, thinking of buying Sensation

Hello guys,
I am thinking of buyin' an HTC Sensation to replace my old Desire (AMOLED), since I found a very attractive offer at a store near home, which is somehow cheaper than any of my usual online store and I can buy it with 1 year installment.The offer is unfortunately valid only for this device and not for SGSII, so not much of an option.
My main reason for upgrading my device from Desire is the pathetic internal memory of the Desire (beside of course better proc)...even CM7 partition, A2SD+, data2ext, etc. are not really solving this issue...
So...is there any big difference, if I upgrade to Sensation?
Edit: it is O2 branded device without contract, just the phone.

Or should I wait for EVO 3D for the bigger battery capacity?
Hmmmm.............

advice
aaa said:
Hello guys,
I am thinking of buyin' an HTC Sensation to replace my old Desire (AMOLED), since I found a very attractive offer at a store near home, which is somehow cheaper than any of my usual online store and I can buy it with 1 year installment.The offer is unfortunately valid only for this device and not for SGSII, so not much of an option.
My main reason for upgrading my device from Desire is the pathetic internal memory of the Desire (beside of course better proc)...even CM7 partition, A2SD+, data2ext, etc. are not really solving this issue...
So...is there any big difference, if I upgrade to Sensation?
Edit: it is O2 branded device without contract, just the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I own a sensation but i would not recommend buying it at the moment since it is still locked. an android phone that does not have permanent root and no ability to flash radios or ROMs is quite boring for Android enthusiasts
I would recommend to wait until alpharevx or HTC release S-off patch, we have no ETA on the alpharev release and cannot know whether it will ever be released, and we have no idea of how HTC perceives an "unlocked bootloader" so we do not really know the kind of freedom the HTC S-off will igve us
Just sit tight and enjoy the show till HTC or alpharev make their move. I had the galaxy s-II before but i did not like it. But now i am starting to think about it again because i am stuck with a locked phone that i cannot do anything with.
dont get me wrong, if the sensation ever gets unlocked the way we want, its gonna be an iconic mobile for the android community

RADLOUNI said:
I own a sensation but i would not recommend buying it at the moment since it is still locked. an android phone that does not have permanent root and no ability to flash radios or ROMs is quite boring for Android enthusiasts
I would recommend to wait until alpharevx or HTC release S-off patch, we have no ETA on the alpharev release and cannot know whether it will ever be released, and we have no idea of how HTC perceives an "unlocked bootloader" so we do not really know the kind of freedom the HTC S-off will igve us
Just sit tight and enjoy the show till HTC or alpharev make their move. I had the galaxy s-II before but i did not like it. But now i am starting to think about it again because i am stuck with a locked phone that i cannot do anything with.
dont get me wrong, if the sensation ever gets unlocked the way we want, its gonna be an iconic mobile for the android community
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another reason I went back to my g2x.. I need development and this hardly has any at the moment..

RADLOUNI said:
I own a sensation but i would not recommend buying it at the moment since it is still locked. an android phone that does not have permanent root and no ability to flash radios or ROMs is quite boring for Android enthusiasts
I would recommend to wait until alpharevx or HTC release S-off patch, we have no ETA on the alpharev release and cannot know whether it will ever be released, and we have no idea of how HTC perceives an "unlocked bootloader" so we do not really know the kind of freedom the HTC S-off will igve us
Just sit tight and enjoy the show till HTC or alpharev make their move. I had the galaxy s-II before but i did not like it. But now i am starting to think about it again because i am stuck with a locked phone that i cannot do anything with.
dont get me wrong, if the sensation ever gets unlocked the way we want, its gonna be an iconic mobile for the android community
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand where you are coming from Roudlouni but the point of the matter is he is getting a sensation at a very good price close to him, it isnt valid for another handset and he has found it attractive, the sgs2 is an ugly piece of ****.
at the end of the day ITS COMING. whether htc are unlocking the bootloader or alpha rev x is as he has already posted proof of s off.
the point is. ITS coming
Its not as if he sensation will never ever be unlocked. There is already youtube proof its S-off'd by Alpha Rev, we are just waiting for him to give us the S-off
so you might as well get it before its gone if you like it
its way better than the desire WAY BETTER.
Gingerbread already supports apps2sd. so thats not an issue at the moment.
but the dev section is about to kick off as soon as we have s off. my guesses are within the next week or two alpharev will release his exploit to S-OFF.
Your main reason of upgrading was the pathetic internal memory and yes the sensation has more than the desire. and once u get a custom rom on it you will be able to do much more.
head over to the SGS2 threads, the phone was s-off on stock and its been out for a few months, how many roms are there, the dev support is minor and small, hardly worth bothering, but guaranteed if its anything like the DHD threads.
The sensation thread will be crammed to suit your flashaholic needs
believe me i own a sensation it is a good device, just patiently waiting for S-off.
My main reason for upgrading my device from Desire is the pathetic internal memory of the Desire (beside of course better proc)...even CM7 partition, A2SD+, data2ext, etc. are not really solving this issue...

ikhzter said:
the point is. ITS coming
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have learned that there is no guarantee that these things will come. Either root is available now or it is not available now. I do not recommend buying a device now and expecting it to be upgraded in the future.
Many times a hardware vendor has promised an update that either never came or turned out to be a piece of crap. Many times people with great intentions have tried to put a 3rd party hack together and it just didn't work out the way they hoped.
I HOPE options for the Sensation open up in the future. Some may EXPECT it. But time will tell.

Coming from a real world user of the phone..its the best phone I have used on T-mobile system. Are there issues? Yes battery life is not the best but expected from this type of phone, I have a abnormal reboot issue that happens at time. The sense 3.0 seems laggy at times and the dumb T-mobile apps that are on the phone are annoying. But when the root comes, this phone should be one hell of a phone,

May I put some conclution from your comments?
For me, unlocked bootloader is very important, as important as permanent root, installing custom ROMs, etc.
I believe I should wait till htc has unlocked the bootloader, the price will also eventually go down in time....but by then, EVO 3D will be more tempting..

Let's tell HTC we want a REAL unlock!

Please read the following blog entry and consider what this could mean for you as an HTC user!
Join with toastcfh, cyaniarb and the many other HTC devs who have brought you all the customization's you know and love. Ask HTC to provide a solution for the current situation!
Please comment and share, spread the word so HTC will hear us and not force us to find another manufacturer we could possibly stand that offers a true unlock!
http://goo.gl/3T4NK

Essentially why my next phone will be a Samsung. Samsung is way more dev friendly. HTC absolutely f***ed the development on the vivid, even though its a top notch phone. They used to be king of the hill for devs, not anymore.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium

Sony is the most dev friendly companie I ever saw. Unlock bootloader to all devices, from the beggining, rent devices for developement, release camera libs and such.

Felimenta97 said:
Sony is the most dev friendly companie I ever saw. Unlock bootloader to all devices, from the beggining, rent devices for developement, release camera libs and such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After their multiple fiascos over the years with other products I won't trust them for a second... think "other OS" on the playstation. a feature they advertised and sold customers based on and then revoked in a later software update.

ve6rah said:
After their multiple fiascos over the years with other products I won't trust them for a second... think "other OS" on the playstation. a feature they advertised and sold customers based on and then revoked in a later software update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What fiascos? Their phones with single core while the rest was with dual core last year? Or their updates? The learned from 2010. They release ICS for ALL their devices, with a awesome software tweaks that made their devices could follow other dual core competitors. And the UI is not heavy like TouchWiz and Sense neither ugly.
For prices, they're not cheap, just like all of their devices, but they make it premium. And stop a little and take a look at the rumours for their next big phones, Hayabusa and Mint. They will blow away One X and SIII.
Sent from my X10 Mini Pro using Tapatalk

I listed one of the fiascos in the reply I made, I could add their rootkit fiasco on CDs a while back... or others.
They haven't screwed over android users yet, but their company has a long history of screwing people over on every other product they've made, I don't want to be involved when they decide to do it on a phone.

Felimenta97 said:
Sony is the most dev friendly companie I ever saw. Unlock bootloader to all devices, from the beggining, rent devices for developement, release camera libs and such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plus sueing the guys who created the PS3 jailbreak (Geohot, failoverflow), going after another guy who contributed to running Other OS on updated PS3 devices (graf_chokolo).Oh and removing otheros in the first place.
Yeah, Sony sure are dev friendly.
Back on topic, i'm totally with this, S-OFF is a crappy solution.

cl8 said:
Plus sueing the guys who created the PS3 jailbreak (Geohot, failoverflow), going after another guy who contributed to running Other OS on updated PS3 devices (graf_chokolo).Oh and removing otheros in the first place.
Yeah, Sony sure are dev friendly.
Back on topic, i'm totally with this, S-OFF is a crappy solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may have said it wrong. Sony is very dev friendly on Android. Better now?

Felimenta97 said:
I may have said it wrong. Sony is very dev friendly on Android. Better now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldn't know, i own a HTC phone, hence why i posted in this thread.

slapshot30 said:
Essentially why my next phone will be a Samsung. Samsung is way more dev friendly. HTC absolutely f***ed the development on the vivid, even though its a top notch phone. They used to be king of the hill for devs, not anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Only with Evo 3D. I'm done with HTC.

Back to topic, yes the whole idea of s-off seems like a common place term, however, this is only because the manufacturer is creating road blocks and locks that keep us from doing what we want. Security and locks make sense, but for the user who understands the risks but simply wants to create custom distributions or simply upgrade firmware on their own schedule there should be a solution with understanding.

Felimenta97 said:
I may have said it wrong. Sony is very dev friendly on Android. Better now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, this is still false. Sony killed off their own dev community. I don't recall exactly what device(s) it was, but I remember a HUGE fiasco involving them which resulted in tons and tons of devs deserting Sony.
imheroldman said:
Back to topic, yes the whole idea of s-off seems like a common place term, however, this is only because the manufacturer is creating road blocks and locks that keep us from doing what we want. Security and locks make sense, but for the user who understands the risks but simply wants to create custom distributions or simply upgrade firmware on their own schedule there should be a solution with understanding.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, security and locks like that do NOT make sense. Samsung SHIPS with unlocked bootloaders, and they don't seem to be having too many problems with it because they keep doing it. HTC makes you jump through hoops just to flash a recovery or kernel every time you want a new ROM.

slapshot30 said:
No, security and locks like that do NOT make sense. Samsung SHIPS with unlocked bootloaders, and they don't seem to be having too many problems with it because they keep doing it. HTC makes you jump through hoops just to flash a recovery or kernel every time you want a new ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not exactly familiar with other samsung devices but I know that the Galaxy Nexus you have to physically connect the phone in fastboot and enter an unlock command...

You think HTC phones are harder to unlock? Motorola's phones are the hardest sobs to be unlocked. If you go back a few years, you'll see that almost every motorola phone required a hardware box or a very specific and hard to find software to be unlocked.
Sent from my GT-S5360B using XDA

i have a s2 and everything is so easy to do. i still dont know what s-off is

acizcool said:
i have a s2 and everything is so easy to do. i still dont know what s-off is
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
S-off is security off. Samsung doesn't have any security on their device. This is why samsung phones are so easy to unlock.
HTC unlock is really horrible way of doing things. Because of the boot img which is basically the kernel is blocked as well. If you ever looked in the kernel and at source a lot of stuff that is actually useful to the power user is turned off in the stock kernel. Especially latest Linux kernel patches.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

s-off on a HTC device is very difficult? have not s-off my sensation XE yet. how difficult is it comparing to samsung device?

[Discussion]HTC Update policy

Hi there,
I finally decided to open a thread for discussing the matter above, because I do not want the thread for officially validated info here be flooded by discussion, whining and bashing.
So everybody is invited tell us here, if he thinks that HTC sucks or whatever about the HTC ICS update.
My personal opinion is, that they don't. It is normal that development is delayed, and deadlines are shifted. They have to deliver an update, that is working out of the box without feedback from community testers and iterations like the custom roms here. And this is not only valid for Android kernel and drivers but also for the Sense 3.6 stuff. The only thing one could really blame em for imho is that they don't communicate the delay. On the other hand it is clear why they do not. If they officailly announce it, it will be all over tech press and blogs and even "normal" users, will know about not only the guys here (who are a minority in global sales). And this would also give the Android critics a voice again, and HTC has definetly no interest in that, so they shut up.
So, you got a working devices, which is able of everything you were promised when buying it. HTC will update it to ICS, even though they don't have to and there is no technical need. This is why I can't understand all this frustration. Of course, I prefer to have the update sooner than later, but this is life.
Just my 2 cents.

kwisatz79 said:
Hi there,
I finally decided to open a thread for discussing the matter above, because I do not want the thread for officially validated info here be flooded by discussion, whining and bashing.
So everybody is invited tell us here, if he thinks that HTC sucks or whatever about the HTC ICS update.
My personal opinion is, that they don't. It is normal that development is delayed, and deadlines are shifted. They have to deliver an update, that is working out of the box without feedback from community testers and iterations like the custom roms here. And this is not only valid for Android kernel and drivers but also for the Sense 3.6 stuff. The only thing one could really blame em for imho is that they don't communicate the delay. On the other hand it is clear why they do not. If they officailly announce it, it will be all over tech press and blogs and even "normal" users, will know about not only the guys here (who are a minority in global sales). And this would also give the Android critics a voice again, and HTC has definetly no interest in that, so they shut up.
So, you got a working devices, which is able of everything you were promised when buying it. HTC will update it to ICS, even though they don't have to and there is no technical need. This is why I can't understand all this frustration. Of course, I prefer to have the update sooner than later, but this is life.
Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, but it would not take HTC 30 seconds to keep us informed and so shut up the chatter.

al89nut said:
I agree, but it would not take HTC 30 seconds to keep us informed and so shut up the chatter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately it wouldn't make any difference to the chatter. Can you imagine the comments we'd get posted on here if HTC did officially announce the ICS roll-out had slipped to August?
"Fu**ing Ba**ards - they keep lying to us"
"I paid for my phone. I deserve the update"
"I'm going to sue HTC for not giving me the update when they said they would"
"I'm never getting another HTC phone - they can't keep to the time-scales they promise"
etc, etc, ad nauseum

Nice thinking of starting a new thread for this....
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Click to collapse
I think as long as we are getting an update..... It's cool cause an update released asap with out much testing and all will always hav many bugs n errors n people will be whining over that...... Bt what they can do was to release the kernal source from a certain point of development ...... For other devs to try.....
Thn again its ma personal opinion....
People hav their own mind
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium

My 12 month contract its due up this month. How well HTC support their existing customers is going to sway my decision on my next phone, & at the moment I'm leaning towards a Galaxy S 3.
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium

Sanddancer75 said:
My 12 month contract its due up this month. How well HTC support their existing customers is going to sway my decision on my next phone, & at the moment I'm leaning towards a Galaxy S 3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My contract ended 4 months ago now. I switched to a 30-day rolling contract with Three as there is no phone out that that I really want. The S3 has nice specs, but I don't like the way it looks, and it's a bit too big. The HTC OneX has nice specs, but no removable storage, and it's a bit too big.
I have decided that my next phone will, I hope, be the next Nexus. I have got my hands on the NExus 7 tablet recently, and it's amazing - if they can do something half as good for the next Google phone it will be a winner.
The 'Customer Service' side doesn't worry me. As soon as I get my hands on something I tend to root it and therefore risk the warranty. As for the whole ICS thing - it doesn't really worry me as I have no doubt we'll get it in the end. I am far more concerned with how good the hardware is and how much support it gets from the devs.

I don't really mind - I've got ISC with CyanogenMod 9 anyway. It would be nice to get an official update though. For me, the waiting time doesn't matter. I'm happy with CM9/other ICS roms for now.

Sanddancer75 said:
My 12 month contract its due up this month. How well HTC support their existing customers is going to sway my decision on my next phone, & at the moment I'm leaning towards a Galaxy S 3.
Sent from my HTC Desire S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, it's not so long ago that HTC was the darling of developers just because they built the G1, G2 and Nexus One. Meanwhile Samsung owners were waiting until the end of 2011 for the Galaxy S to be upgraded from Eclair to Froyo - that's nearly a year after 2.2 first appeared.
Sony Ericsson used to get a lot of stick too for not updating their Xperia line, but the more recent ones at least got kind-of-official support for unlocking long before HTC's 2011 models.
To be blunt, I think all the manufacturers are as bad as each other when it comes to unlocking and official updates; which is why my next phone will almost certainly be a Nexus.

njd said:
You know, it's not so long ago that HTC was the darling of developers just because they built the G1, G2 and Nexus One. Meanwhile Samsung owners were waiting until the end of 2011 for the Galaxy S to be upgraded from Eclair to Froyo - that's nearly a year after 2.2 first appeared.
Sony Ericsson used to get a lot of stick too for not updating their Xperia line, but the more recent ones at least got kind-of-official support for unlocking long before HTC's 2011 models.
To be blunt, I think all the manufacturers are as bad as each other when it comes to unlocking and official updates; which is why my next phone will almost certainly be a Nexus.
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Click to collapse
Hard to disagree - seems good sense to go to the source, not drink downstream

http://www.xda-developers.com/andro...t-petition-for-timely-kernel-source-releases/

mexicorn said:
http://www.xda-developers.com/andro...t-petition-for-timely-kernel-source-releases/
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Click to collapse
The link gives Error 404: page not found
Sent from my HTC Desire S

amidabuddha said:
The link gives Error 404: page not found
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Not for me it doesn't

SimonTS said:
Not for me it doesn't
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Click to collapse
It is OK now. Signed
Sent from my HTC Desire S