Who's Developing for "Square" MagStripe CreditCard Reader & Touchscreen Payment Systm - General Topics

Who's Developing for "Square" MagStripe CreditCard Reader & Touchscreen Payment Systm
When I first saw a display ad here on XDA for this gizmo around beginning of April, I thought it was an Fool's joke because the gadget was so small, and it seemed "too smart" to be true.
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... but many of you know it's been out for quite a while. Threads here go back to I think September 2010, (though there was zero traction then)...
Website: https://squareup.com/media
FAQ: https://help.squareup.com/customer/portal/topics/4139-frequently-asked-questions/articles
It works on Android phones and iphones...
Then, by the end of April, having poked around a bit, following links, asking questions on their twitter feed and at facebook, I come to find out that SQUARE, the name of this device, new company and payment system, is the brainchild of Twitter founder Jack Dorsey, a real visionary, who's been ahead of the curve before, regarding the ways people, and groups of people, interact, and where technology can play a role there.
With this new knowledge -- which is significant -- it completely reframes the way I looked at this device: from a QUESTION MARK about
"who's using it and what do you think of its viability?"
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to
"who's using it and WHAT KINDS OF APPS do you see developing around this system for use by small businesses -- delivering them customized apps with physical credit card transaction systems?
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Very different perception about the entire product and viability as you see in the 3 short posts I made in this thread, how it quickly progresses
So, has anyone here....
• used one? If so, how did the transaction go? Is it smooth sailing, does the card reader work the first time? (if so, it's better than most checkout stands at grocery or drug store)
• bought one? if so, have you used it for a business, or just to try out, or to write an app for?
• developed custom software for it?
From the looks of it, if this works half as well as it appears, it seems pretty darn revolutionary.
Curious to see if there is any feedback.

To be honest it's not something that i would trust.

matt.blackwood said:
To be honest it's not something that i would trust.
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Explain more please. Do you mean as a card holder making a transaction? You mean you would not trust ...
(a) the security of the system to properly authenticate with the credit card company and approve the transaction
(b) the card reader's and software's inherent reliability to firewall your credit card data and isolate just that single transaction, without grabbing your credit card info?
(c) the vendor using the credit card reader and who knows what software has been tied to the reader to grab and suck down all your credit card data, nicely stored for vendor to use another time, another place -- or sell off to some third party?
(d) or the vendor is acting in good faith but someone makes an app for his particular business and sells to him and he is legit, but unbeknownst to him the app is "phoning home" to app maker or some third party with credit card data?
-------- Please explain , don't just pick a, b, c, d .... I'd really like to understand. And these just sprang off the top of my head once you said that.

I've been eyeing them as a company and as a mobile PoS system solution for a while... I signed up today, guess we'll see in a month how it goes.

RADRaze2KX said:
I've been eyeing them as a company and as a mobile PoS system solution for a while... I signed up today, guess we'll see in a month how it goes.
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Click to collapse
Great! I hope you'll give us some feedback.
My first impression, as mentioned, upon seeing just the top image, was "what a clever joke" -- because I hadn't really thought something so small was realistic.
Then when I'd clicked through and saw it was tied together thru the headphone jack, I thought: wow, this is clever: Immediately flipped my thinking from joke -- to -- very clever engineering -- with a very smart snap/snug, stable external device mounting method, plus the critical input/output connection.
Then, seeing nothing more my mind wondered but what's the quality of the mag-stripe reader? ---- that's impossible to know... But upon seeing the device was actually in use and had history, I knew it had to work-- and -- my mind instantly flipped again to: How many times had I been to a major chain grocery store or "big-box" store, or ATM machine or parking lot checkout reader, and have my credit card rejected because "not readable" -- only to then have the same card work perfectly fine 10-feet away at another ATM machine? ... Answer: Very often.... And the cashier ends up taking the card and either swiping it in another device, or manually entering the numbers, so, my thought was: hey if it works 75% of the time, it's as good as most industrial strength systems i encounter in every day life... SERIOUSLY.
My mind tumbled out all of these reactive thoughts all in a split second -- like, what about signatures -- and of course, touchscreens, just like in stores. I didn't check to see if they provide a capactive stylus, but i have used about 3 brands of capactive stylusus on my various devices, and they are not bad ---- Put it this way, They are EASILY as good as controlling my signature as the crappy pens provided with almost every touchscreen signature system I have used at grocery stores, drug stores, etc, where my signatures is wildly uncontrolled and yet the system accepts it.
(NOSTALGIA NOTE: The argument has long been had about resistive vs capacitive screens -- I've been in on those for several years. The feature I miss the most on my post-windows-mobile phones is stylus-based drawing and handwriting and character recognition and "handwriting to text"... The entire industry took a giant 10-year step backwards with capacitive screens when that incredible advancement -- poof - just went away, got buried -- and most post-iphone-world consumers today don;'t even know that it was ever possible... oh.well. .... )
So, when I posted this thread, I was pretty psyched.
THEN came the first reply -- and his was the only reply before yours -- saying
To be honest it's not something that i would trust.
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And that lead me to immediately examine everything I'd ignored while I marveled at the technology. I never got a reply back from matt.blackwood
which is a real drag
because he raised the issue, and at the very least I wanted to know if the factors I then took apart were the factors bothering him -- or if it was just an overall intuition he hadn't really examined in the detail I did.
In the end, there is NO WAY THIS CONCEPT CAN FAIL ultimately... whether this particular company solves all the problems of security or someone else does... whether they get bought out by paypal, or whatever may happen. It's TOO SMART TO FAIL and I would consider investing money in the company.
Let's face it, the Apple Store uses clunky mobile credit card transaction devices, and they swipe the cards -- and the whole thing is very smart... But I recall asking a guy at Apple store in San Francisco a year ago
"Hey, how come you guys haven't hooked up an external card reader device to an iphone to do this same function? It seems kind of foolish to be touting the iphone's "there's an app for that" only to then have this dedicated terminal that seems way bigger than it needs to be to perform its function"
And the guy looks at me... You know that semi smug look you get with their cool blue t-shirts and tags around neck with the general attitude of "I know all" and "there's nothing you can possibly know that apple hasn't altready thought of" ...
And he starts to speak about "well I am sure they are working on..."
And I pull out my HTC Desire and say "But I'm just saying.. it's a pretty simple concept, anyone could do it, it's not that hard, they could do it to THIS phone, right?...So I'm just kind of surprised it's not even in prototype stage"
And the smug look has evaporated with no place to go... I wasn't being smug at all. I was just being correct. And he says "You're right. We should have that by now" ....
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So, *I* had envisioned an add on that was, of course, credit card sized, and was flat, and would butt-up flat to the bottom of a touchscreen device. That seemed so obvious.
Which is why I was initially baffled by this gizmo and thought it was a joke, because it seemed so unrealistic .... Until I clicked through and saw --- wow, *I* was wrong. Very very smart product design. They should change the external design to look less plastic and cheap, so as to convey a more durable and serious, secure product.
Please let us know what you think.

I think the main issues are definitely B, C and D on your previous post. I'm sure A has been solved by now, otherwise this wouldn't even be a product.
People are very paranoid about their credit cards, and with good reason. Anything remotely "new" will have a tough period of adaptation and the fact that this is portable and so ad-hoc (clever though it is) will only fuel people's doubts. It's great from an engineering perspective but its more of a risky bet when you take marketting into account. But not to worry, there's a lot of places that could pioneer these devices. Cyber cafe's with iphone-armed waitresses and such would be ideal. From there on it would spread. (I would NEVER use it on a hot dog stand like the ad photo suggests though, no way XD)
The signature thing caught my eye as well. Its gonna be really awkward to sign with your fingers. They should DEFINITELY package an iphone-compatible stylus with each reader.

Wow, didn't know SQUARE is from inventor of Twitter, his next "vision"
This quadruples my interest in this gizmo and belief in its destiny to take over the credit card terminal business:
http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/04/jack-dorsey-201104
Frankly, now with this information, I'm really surprised XDA-devs is so slow to get onboard with this. My god, people are dragging their heels on this? It's completely nuts. This is a homerun. If someone has an app to develop for android or windows7, or even iphone, or vendor-by-vendor custom apps, this is going to be a huge huge money maker for app developers customizing apps for SMALL BUSINESSES.
He or she who drags feet will be like Microsoft dragging feet after the iphone flipped the UI for touchscreens to finger-based navigation.

CptAJ said:
I think the main issues are definitely B, C and D on your previous post. I'm sure A has been solved by now, otherwise this wouldn't even be a product.
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Thanks for replying. Here's what their site says about security. I would love to see the XDA-dev security experts scrutinize every aspect of the security issues, and pick apart any shortcomings -- simply for identification purposes. I want to see this succeed, and as you can see in the way I have reframed the way I see the product, I am certain it will. I can't see it failing to gain significant traction in X years' time. It will probably be way faster than it took paypal to build user trust -- because that was a different time in the internet curve of adoption by consumers.
https://squareup.com/security | VeriSign Secured seal | PCI Compliant link
Physical & Network Security
Sensitive data is encrypted using industry-standard methods when stored on disk or transmitted over public networks.
Only standard, well-reviewed cryptographic protocols and message formats (such as SSL and PGP) are used when transferring data.
Symmetric cryptographic keys are required to be at least 128 bits long. Asymmetric keys must be at least 2048 bits long.
Security updates and patches are installed on servers and equipment in a timely fashion.
Security settings of applications and devices are tuned to ensure appropriate levels of protection.
Square’s website and API are accessible via 128-bit, extended-validation SSL certificates issued by VeriSign.
Networks are strictly segregated according to security level. Modern, restrictive firewalls protect all connections between networks.
Card-processing systems adhere to PCI Data Security Standard (PCI-DSS), Level 1.
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Web and Client Application Security
Card numbers, magnetic stripe data, or security codes are not stored on Square client devices.
Applications developed in-house are subject to strict quality testing and security review. Web development follows industry-standard secure coding guidelines, such as those recommended by OWASP.
Card-processing applications adhere to the PCI Data Security Standard (PCI-DSS), Level 1.
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Organizational Security
Access to sensitive data, including application data and cryptographic keys, is strictly controlled on a need-to-know basis.
Two-factor authentication and strong password controls are required for administrative access to systems.
Security systems and processes are tested on a regular basis by qualified internal and external teams.
All access to secure services and data is strictly logged, and audit logs are reviewed on a regular basis.
Security policies and procedures are carefully documented, and are reviewed on a regular basis.
Detailed incident response plans have been prepared to ensure proper protection of data in an emergency.
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Research and Disclosure
We want to encourage responsible reporting of problems with our service. If you believe you have discovered a problem with our service, please contact us at [email protected].
Square will respond to all reasonable reports of potential security problems, usually within 24 hours. If you report a problem, we will:
Acknowledge your report, and provide you with contact information for our team as we investigate;
Work with you to ensure that we understand the issue, and consult with you about the best way to address it;
Work with other organizations, if necessary, to ensure that other services are protected too;
Keep you informed as all of this takes place; and
Give you credit, if you wish, for helping us.
Security is critical to Square. By reporting problems to us in a responsible manner you enable us to address issues and protect our users in a timely fashion. We also recognize that legitimate and well-intentioned researchers are sometimes blamed for the problems they disclose. In order to encourage responsible reporting practices, we promise not to bring legal action against researchers in response to a disclosure, provided they:
Share the full details of any problems found with us.
Do not disclose the issue publicly or to others until we have had a reasonable amount of time to address it. We will try to act quickly, but some aspects of our system are complicated and may take time to patch and test.
Do not intentionally harm the experience or usefulness of the service to others.
Never attempt to view, modify, or damage data belonging to others.
Do not seek compensation or reward for the report, either from Square or a third party.
This pledge is intended to balance the protections and guarantees necessary to encourage responsible disclosure against our own requirements and responsibilities for data security. It is not an invitation to test the security of our service without authorization. If you have any questions about this, or have any doubts about whether your tests are appropriate, please contact us before proceeding.
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***
*** I want to actually respond to your post's points that I can respond to in next post. This was to isolate the security info into one post.

I have one of these and have used it, the transactions have gone smoothly. I haven't used it often, but I've had it since they first launched (I was one of the first people to get one of them), and it works great as a swipe card reader as well as a manual input card device if you need to take a credit card number over the internet or phone. I'm not planning on using it in place a normal merchant account (I'm in the process of getting one set up for online transactions), but for in-person transactions I'd feel just as comfortable using this as I would any other card-swiping solution.
Just my two cents.

FORGET ABOUT ALL DOUBTS in Square payment system: VISA investing in Square
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42783124
For all those who were marginalizing SQUARE with a "wait and see" approach, you might as well sprint ahead and get into adoption mode, and start developing for it. With this VISA partnership, hard to see SQUARE needing any more validation. It's going to clean up big time.
Square Partners with Visa, Gaining Advantage in Mobile Payments Race
Source: squareup.com​
Startup Square just secured a major advantage competitive mobile payments space — a strategic investment from Visa which will put one of its executives on the company's advisory board.
This isn't about the cash — earlier this year Square raised $27.7 million in financing, led by Sequoia capital — this is about validation from Visa, a leader in credit card payments.
Considering that all of Square's rivals, including Quicken and PayPal, have been looking to partner with a giant like Visa, this gives Square a huge advantage in getting merchants to adopt its service.
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more in link: http://www.cnbc.com/id/42783124
And from GigaOm:
Visa is making a strategic investment in mobile payment provider Square, providing the start-up with an undisclosed sum of money as well as a new advisory board member. It’s a nice boost for Square, which is on a roll as it tries to ramp up payments via a smartphone. But it also highlights the growing role of credit card companies as they try to prepare for the growing mobile payments boom.
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Kaessa said:
I have one of these and have used it, the transactions have gone smoothly. I haven't used it often, but I've had it since they first launched (I was one of the first people to get one of them), and it works great as a swipe card reader as well as a manual input card device if you need to take a credit card number over the internet or phone. I'm not planning on using it in place a normal merchant account (I'm in the process of getting one set up for online transactions), but for in-person transactions I'd feel just as comfortable using this as I would any other card-swiping solution.
Just my two cents.
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Kaessa, would love to get more anecdotal information about how customers are responding to this form of payment -- what questions do they ask... and even procedurally -- walk me through it, do you in fact hold the phone in your hand, as pictured, and they swipe it? Or do you turn phone sideways (90-degrees) so they can swipe card more like at cashier terminals?
Then what, do you keep the reader plugged in and flip phone around for people to sign?
Do people have an okay time with finger?
Is there a reset/ try signature again?
Just curious! Thank you.

I really want to get one of these to play with, but they are not available outside of the US. I don't want to use it for payments, just as a mag-stripe reader.
I was wondering if anyone in the US would be willing to buy one and send it over? I heard you can buy them over the counter from apple stores...

crazy stuff

MOD note: After going through the thread, indeed it's related to phones and shall be moved back to general shortly.
It might have been misinterpreted by ORB, even we moderators are humans and can make mistakes.
So, I suggest OP and everyone relax.
Also, if OP you have any further issues address them to me via PM ( not rant threads - like the one I shut ).

That is correct, initially it seemed to be an iphone only related thread, now OP edited and included other OS´s.
@OP, Next time please contact Moderator instead of creating rant threads please

orb3000 said:
That is correct, initially it seemed to be an iphone only related thread, now OP edited and included other OS´s.
@OP, Next time please contact Moderator instead of creating rant threads please
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OP only edited it to make it more apparent that it was about phones. No image was changed. No information was changed re OS. It was about Android from Day 1.

quicksite said:
Kaessa, would love to get more anecdotal information about how customers are responding to this form of payment -- what questions do they ask... and even procedurally -- walk me through it, do you in fact hold the phone in your hand, as pictured, and they swipe it? Or do you turn phone sideways (90-degrees) so they can swipe card more like at cashier terminals?
Then what, do you keep the reader plugged in and flip phone around for people to sign?
Do people have an okay time with finger?
Is there a reset/ try signature again?
Just curious! Thank you.
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I've only done it a couple of times, so I'm probably not the best one to ask. One was online, as an eBay transaction... PayPal had screwed up his account so I just took his Visa over the phone. There is a "card not present" option, just like with any other credit card machine.
As far as swiping the card, I would take the card from them and swipe it. It's a fairly delicate device, not like a grocery store card reader, and someone getting over-enthusiastic with it could break it or your phone's headphone jack. I don't worry about breaking it myself... I carry it around in my purse in the same pouch I carry my headphones in.
As far as the signature goes, the finger signature works fine... just turn it around and either give it to them, or put it on a flat surface and have them sign. I don't know if there's a "try again", but there probably is. It's a well developed piece of software, really slick. Looks like they thought of everything when they put it together. I haven't had anyone hesitate to use it. Now that Visa is in on it, I'm sure there won't be any problems.
I'm thinking of using it at my next yard sale. Should get all those looky-loos that "forgot to bring enough money".

Related

::::Calling my fellow Android users::::

Okay, here's the deal:
My mother goes to school part time, for her work who requires her too. bottom line is she has like 4 essays to write but one of them i told her - since im an Android junkie - i would give her at least a really good outline for.
Here's where I ask you guys for help, cause I think I have my main points but still maybe you all can put in your main points (two or three) so I can get some other ideas as well.
heres the topic:
Why the Android OS is BETTER THAN the iPhone OS for the ORDINARY CONSUMER.​
So the thing to keep in mind here when I write this is that it is for a normal, everyday consumer.... This is the main reason I ask you guys for input is because it is hard for ME to separate the geeky points from points that the students in her class would see.
Anyways, thanks for anyone who has some input as I need to write a good outline for my mom before she goes into work tonight, again thanks.
Found this while in a os battle with my buddy and his iPhone. This has got 5 good plot points from a user perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WF6M1hy0EE
Sent from Soundwave aboard Nemesis.
Freedom. Want a screen bigger than 3.5"? There's a phone out there. 16gb of storage not enough? Spend 20 bucks more and double your storage with a micro sd card. Want to install an app that isn't on the market? Download another appstore or the apk file itself. Don't want to have to deal with iTunes for music? Congrats, just drag and drop files from any computer or download many different music stores with Android.
Sent from my HTC myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
The single largest freedom an Android device grants a and user is the ability to utilize a MicroSD (or ANY) memory card for expanded or interchangeable memory.
You can unmount and remount sdcards on the fly, so you can change them out without turning the unit off and keep a whole mess of media on a bunch of cards.
(this memory card for Rock, this memory card for Blues, this memory card for action movies, this memory card for etc...)
The greatest hardware improvement over an i-something is the option of a hardware keyboard. You will also never see this on an i-pocket device. This is something we are all familiar with right here moreso then elsewhere and bears no further explanation.
The biggest frustration shed by an end user when leaving the communistic apple universe is ditching iTunes. - No more need be said on that either here, you can fill in the details on that.
Android is encouraged to be used on any device that can be made to run it. iOS runs on 3 (and only 3) pieces of hardware. Android offers users a choice of hardware that fits their needs and budgets, not just a single price point at take it or leave it.
Due to the 'promiscuous licensing' of Android (as steve jobs has been known to say) Android devices can consistently offer hardware that is at least one (if not more) generation(s) ahead of what the single Apple phone offers.
(Android has quad core processors now - what's the iPhone got?)
Bottom line is the two contenders can be summed up quite simply:
Apple = control
Android = freedom
In an Apple ecosystem you can do what Apple says you can do, when they say you can do it, precisely the way they allow you to do it and no more.
In an Android ecosystem you are encouraged to seek innovative ways of doing things and utilizing the hardware and software.
----
A jailbroken i-device still offers less freedoms then a full-security on and locked Android device. So an i-something at it's most open state is still more locked down then an Android in it's most locked state.
----
I don't have any more time and there were quite a few other points I wanted to touch on, but that should be some to get the outline started in addition to what is or hopefully will be posted.
Good luck!
Most android phones have removable batteries so you can always keep a spare on you.
More customizable. You can pretty much change any software aspect of the phone.
There are android phones on many carriers including a lot of prepaid carriers.
Devices running android are generally cheaper than devices running iOS.
Choice of screen size and resolution even up to 720p on phones.
Thought of a couple more. You have a choice of size and also more color choices... You don't just get to choose between black and white because there are so many different colored android powered devices out there.
Hmmm... A lot of other stuff has already been covered, but if I think of anything else I will post it.
for the average user it really is just down to money.
cheaper phones (with way better price/performance ratio) and cheaper/more free apps.
the average joe won't even notice the difference in freedom you can have with android over ios
Go on Rootz. I did a whole did on this. It's Under the username "NomyNomyNomy".
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk
Multitasking is a real nightmare on the iPhone...
I can't stand the fact that I'm flipping through 4 apps at a time
Not to mention the smaller screen and lack of widgets. I also like the app drawer in android, compared to the sliding panes in iOS. It's just easier to navigate through all your apps, instead of flipping from page 1 to 9. Oh, that brings me onto the leap screen, which is a neat little feature to get from one screen to another quickly.
When I used iOS I was Jailbroken and had my iPhone looking like a Nexus S. Also, I had my 3G running Sense 2.1. I liked iOS for the Apps, but Android caught up.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk
Freedom of choice. This is it. There's all sorts of shapes, sizes, options, UI choices; you name it. You want choices? Android's the platform to go to.
Unfortunately, you pay for this freedom of choice for usability for everyday users that don't really care about rooting, SD cards, using something that isn't iTunes for music, and a lot of other things.
Personally, I disagree with you mostly because I deal with all of this nonsense all the time and a normal person won't care to explore the potential of something they have bought, let alone paying more than $50 for something that isn't the O GREAT IPHONE. Great for people like us who care about doing the most we can with what we buy, but most people "can't be bothered" to actually try doing something with the things they buy.
Limewirelord said:
Freedom of choice. This is it. There's all sorts of shapes, sizes, options, UI choices; you name it. You want choices? Android's the platform to go to.
Unfortunately, you pay for this freedom of choice for usability for everyday users that don't really care about rooting, SD cards, using something that isn't iTunes for music, and a lot of other things.
Personally, I disagree with you mostly because I deal with all of this nonsense all the time and a normal person won't care to explore the potential of something they have bought, let alone paying more than $50 for something that isn't the O GREAT IPHONE. Great for people like us who care about doing the most we can with what we buy, but most people "can't be bothered" to actually try doing something with the things they buy.
Click to expand...
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That's not the point though... The outline isn't for what OS is better it's for why android is better...
Also I thought of something else... Most android devices are built stronger than than iOS devices and aren't totally encased in alumina-silicate glass the iPhone uses and when they do use glass it's gorilla glass which is many times stronger than alumina-silicate glass the iPhone uses. So basically android devices can withstand falls better than the iPhone (some being better than others).
Has anyone mentioned, no freakin' back button on the iPhone? I've had a few users complain about that in my presence.... must be maddening!
Limewirelord said:
...
Unfortunately, you pay for this freedom of choice for usability for everyday users that don't really care about rooting, SD cards, using something that isn't iTunes for music, and a lot of other things.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you about sdcards, but part of it is also the psychological aspect of "I can!" even if it's never actually done. People like us really get use out of that sdcard slot, but the average joe has the card that came with the phone still in it.
The psychological aspect those same people who can't be bothered to learn anything more then they know about it makes the few distinct things it does different more important to cling to and cry louder in a typical apple fanboi vs average android user comparing phones in a bar or something.
If you paint the average user in the ignorant light that(mostly fairly from what i've seen too, ) you do, then this strawman argument on their behalf carries even more weight, because it's one of their few pieces of ammunition to save face against "O GREAT IPHONE" (lol'd at that btw - it does set the mentality) their actually using it means nothing, it's just the knowledge that they can we care about here.
----
As far as iTunes, I haven't met a single flesh and blood real (not ethereal like all of you online people lol) person that hasn't hated the living daylights out of iTunes.
Again, these are the same types of people that you painted earlier - people that may or may not have an android phone and maybe an ipod touch or something, or an iphone. Their friends might have one or the other of the above devices.
I've heard nothing but the strained frustration of loss from every single one of them to a man (or woman) based on contact with another accounts i-device or host computer...
(...which i'd generally refer to as 'infected' with iTunes on it, because the average user and a foreign i-device = computer owner, device owner, or both losing everything...)
...because these same people that only know what they know and want to learn no more don't even know that you can turn off auto sync and so on, or the rules of when you can or can't connect the devices and not be shedding a tear a few minutes later.
We all either know or would figure out within minutes of opening the app how to handle everything correctly with at least a 90%+ success rate on execution.
The average user? Install iTunes, synce device. 3 weeks later friend comes over. Their i-device gets plugged into the computer. Chaos ensues.
Limewirelord said:
Personally, I disagree with you mostly because I deal with all of this nonsense all the time and a normal person won't care to explore the potential of something they have bought, let alone paying more than $50 for something that isn't the O GREAT IPHONE. Great for people like us who care about doing the most we can with what we buy, but most people "can't be bothered" to actually try doing something with the things they buy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And herein lies the rub, because you are exactly right and the scorn you drop here is the exact equal to:
...the person who takes the time learning how to operate a vehicle properly hear someone say " and they asked me when the last time I changed my oil was, and I said 'what oil?' "
tit for tat that's an exact frame of reference to the perspective you cast for consideration, so it really comes down to:
Where is the person who - after doing the most, and also importantly the most common, maximum level of unintentional damage the most upset? Apple or Android?
The iTunes thing I think everyone would agree puts the saddest person in the Apple camp, also since that burns many people very often.
Thanks so much to all who responded!!!! I gave her the link to this thread and "said you can use what you want"
She responded back tonight when I asked her "did the links I sent you pan out?"
She said this:
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Once again: Huge thanks to all who chimed in, turned out great from the outline she sent me!
If you didn't have the time to get your post up before she finished its alright, I'm overwhelmed myself when I see the amount of attention I got from this community
My mom and I appreciate it and I'm sure someone else may come along and need this thread too, so thanks for that :beer:
Typed by ---- oh wait! I'm schizophrenic!
Education and sharing knowledge is what XDA is built on.
I do not want to see this devolve into a petty apple bashing thread, because there is a real message to be had if we agree with the things mentioned above.
This serves to illustrate the importance of treating new people with the ability to look back to when you were like that.
At some point we all had to decide to see what was a little further down the rabbit hole, but the average person that isn't into computer tech loses 2/3rds of their common sense and IQ the moment they sit down at a terminal.
It's just a pre-concieved fear of the unknown, not knowing what you can't do that results in breaking or just messing the whole thing up.
People that aren't familiar with this stuff can be paralyzed by the fear of doing something catastrophically wrong - often to the extreme. If they show up here and start asking questions, then they are taking steps to conquer that and become that person who changes their oil.
This should serve as a good reminder of what it was like for you, whoever you are reading this, when you first started wondering how to tinker with your device.
Here and there you can see when someone forgets what it was like and loses that perspective - Remember this, though, you no longer respect what you can do if you forget what it's like not to be able to.
Take a minute or have an extra shred of patience when someone new starts asking questions, you could be nurturing someone becoming what you are.
The best place to send anyone new first is right Here.
Little Off Topic but throw Espier Launcher on your phone and you will get a slight sense of how it is to be on ios. It gets horrid. With the loss of freedom.
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium

Found something new about the S4 just now!!

So like many others I'm sure I've been obsessing about the new S4. I pre-ordered mine yesterday and have been doing more research ever since.
While getting "lost" on the internet usually leads me to cats instead I found out about Mobeam.
It's basically a cool new feature that allows the S4 to project bursts of light from a LED or maybe IR which a POS system or traditional barcode scanner can read.
What does this mean? It means we should be able to scan coupons loyalty cards, gift cards etc and then when at the store have the cashier just scan the top of our phone to accept the barcode.
I'm probably getting excited of something I'll never use however I like surprises...
I wonder if that will help bridge the gap with physical retailers and online coupons. I use my phone a LOT when shopping because I can always find a deal and save some money, but it can be frustrating when you get a coupon and then the cashier has to verify that it's "legit". It would be simpler if all online coupons just came with simple bar codes that can easily be scanned and matched up in the computer. Some coupons do this already, but really every one of them should.
Sarcron said:
I wonder if that will help bridge the gap with physical retailers and online coupons. I use my phone a LOT when shopping because I can always find a deal and save some money, but it can be frustrating when you get a coupon and then the cashier has to verify that it's "legit". It would be simpler if all online coupons just came with simple bar codes that can easily be scanned and matched up in the computer. Some coupons do this already, but really every one of them should.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I absolutely think it could bridge the gap, but this depends on the right environment.
1. Mobeam has patented this technology, as thus it's going to need to be affordable to license it to the masses. (Interestingly enough in Mobeams' FAQ section under investors, it lists Samsung Ventures among several others)
2. The companies that make the products we buy everyday will need to jump on board and work with retail stores and app devs to get these coupons seamlessly integrated to mobile phones.
The most important thing of all this is $$$. Basically every store already has the barcode system in place, so not having to upgrade all of those systems to use rfid or nfc (another way mobile coupons can be used) will be a huge cost savings.
imthatguy83 said:
I absolutely think it could bridge the gap, but this depends on the right environment.
1. Mobeam has patented this technology, as thus it's going to need to be affordable to license it to the masses. (Interestingly enough in Mobeams' FAQ section under investors, it lists Samsung Ventures among several others)
2. The companies that make the products we buy everyday will need to jump on board and work with retail stores and app devs to get these coupons seamlessly integrated to mobile phones.
The most important thing of all this is $$$. Basically every store already has the barcode system in place, so not having to upgrade all of those systems to use rfid or nfc (another way mobile coupons can be used) will be a huge cost savings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was confused for a second so I went and looked up a video on on Mobeam, and wow, I didn't realize that was the full potential you referred to. That is actually really cool! I heard the HTC One also has an IR blaster, so couldn't it do this as well? Or is Mobeam's technology patent such that 3rd party developers couldn't really copy that feature, and for now it's exclusive to Samsung?
Sarcron said:
Was confused for a second so I went and looked up a video on on Mobeam, and wow, I didn't realize that was the full potential you referred to. That is actually really cool! I heard the HTC One also has an IR blaster, so couldn't it do this as well? Or is Mobeam's technology patent such that 3rd party developers couldn't really copy that feature, and for now it's exclusive to Samsung?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it uses the notification LED on the phone. The video shows the scanner scanning the face of the phone which is where the LED is. The IR is on top by the audio jack. That leads me to believe that this could work with most phones.
I'm thinking that their patent would def protect them so as no other company can use this tech with out licensing it from them. What that costs who knows. The most interesting thing about this is that Samsung apparently invested in them, to what degree again who knows. If Samsung invested heavily then maybe they will get to have the tech for a while before the company licenses it to other vendors. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out..
I don't really get it? if you're going to scan your phone, why not just have the barcode appear on the screen like most other things?
imthatguy83 said:
I think it uses the notification LED on the phone. The video shows the scanner scanning the face of the phone which is where the LED is. The IR is on top by the audio jack. That leads me to believe that this could work with most phones.
I'm thinking that their patent would def protect them so as no other company can use this tech with out licensing it from them. What that costs who knows. The most interesting thing about this is that Samsung apparently invested in them, to what degree again who knows. If Samsung invested heavily then maybe they will get to have the tech for a while before the company licenses it to other vendors. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The S4 has an IR sensor on the top of the phone as well (separate from the IR blaster on the front). It is used to detect hand gestures. I don't think many other phones have this technology yet.
Brendo said:
I don't really get it? if you're going to scan your phone, why not just have the barcode appear on the screen like most other things?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go to the site and watch the video...it explains why.
Brendo said:
I don't really get it? if you're going to scan your phone, why not just have the barcode appear on the screen like most other things?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's probably just as simple as the tech to read a smartphone screen is really expensive. The only other option is RFID and NFC all of these would require serious investments on the behalf of retail stores. This tech allows retail locations to use their existing laser scanners.
Brendo said:
I don't really get it? if you're going to scan your phone, why not just have the barcode appear on the screen like most other things?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically MOST scanners in stores (laser scanners I think) can't read a glass screen it just sees reflections. Newer stores with newer/different scanners can read screens like the ones they use at starbucks...but the purpose of this is it can be used anywhere with ANY scanner. Pretty genius actually!
Sure, idea is cool, but given that scanners do a pretty awesome job with barcodes it is kinda redundant (I know, I used to test them on different surfaces at my old job just for fun)

Microsoft Surface Ears, for low volume problems

Hi xda,
I have developed Ears for the Surface family of tablets. It has launched! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1463948377/ears-for-the-surface-tablets
I just want to see what your feedback is. This is my first project/product and if anyone has suggestions, let me know.
I would love to hear what the community thinks!
Thank you,
Brandon
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lgnationrc said:
Hi xda,
I have developed Ears for the Surface family of tablets. I will launch it Saturday at 9:00am EST (UTC-5:00) on Kickstarter. Right now you can see the Prefundia link: http://prefundia.com/projects/view/ears-for-the-surface-tablets/976/
I just want to see what your feedback is. This is my first project/product and if anyone has suggestions, let me know.
I will post a Kickstarter link when it goes live.
I would love to hear what the community thinks!
Thank you,
Brandon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really enjoyed the story behind your move to China and starting a business in there. I'm sure it will be inspirational for a lot of people!
Regarding the project, it's a good idea, but... here is a big problem I see with it. Your product is catered to a small group of people who bought original Surface RT (probably on fire sale when they drop the price). I know you really like it and still enjoying it, but in a big picture Surface RT (arm processor based, right?) was a huge flop for M$. On top of that, if they decide to release a new version of it and re-design location of speakers, your design will have to be changed.. Do you know what I mean?
Don't take it in a wrong way, I'm just trying to help you out with my opinion (I review a lot of products, see my signature link). The product you come up with is a good idea, but I'm not sure if its suitable for KS or IGG unless you set a low target. XDA is not the best place to promote it; you need to go directly to MS/Surface forums and communities to get a feedback from there and see if people will be interested to buy it. Then, maybe sell it through ebay or Amazon? Of course, I could be wrong, but I just feel the focus of this product is very narrow due to Surface RT being less popular product.
vectron said:
I really enjoyed the story behind your move to China and starting a business in there. I'm sure it will be inspirational for a lot of people!
Regarding the project, it's a good idea, but... here is a big problem I see with it. Your product is catered to a small group of people who bought original Surface RT (probably on fire sale when they drop the price). I know you really like it and still enjoying it, but in a big picture Surface RT (arm processor based, right?) was a huge flop for M$. On top of that, if they decide to release a new version of it and re-design location of speakers, your design will have to be changed.. Do you know what I mean?
Don't take it in a wrong way, I'm just trying to help you out with my opinion (I review a lot of products, see my signature link). The product you come up with is a good idea, but I'm not sure if its suitable for KS or IGG unless you set a low target. XDA is not the best place to promote it; you need to go directly to MS/Surface forums and communities to get a feedback from there and see if people will be interested to buy it. Then, maybe sell it through ebay or Amazon? Of course, I could be wrong, but I just feel the focus of this product is very narrow due to Surface RT being less popular product.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PM sent and thank you or the feedback!
To add to what vectron said...
My first take on seeing the product was OH LOOKIT A MICKEY MOUSE SURFACE! awww that's sooo cute... I suspect, however, that that isn't the desired effect Surface owners will be looking for. You are looking at your product from a purely functional view. However, consumers place a higher importance on aesthetic and stylistic aspects. From this, you can't pay people enough to use the "ears," let alone thinking of charging for them. Excuse the blunt words, but it's reality.
My second comment is that you need to think of your market, and not yourself, when creating a new product. As vectron said, Surface RTs are obsolete, with a small userbase. If you want to make something like this (ignoring my first comment), then you need a universal-fit model to fit any tablet. There are indeed many mobile devices with backward-firing speakers that can benefit from this.
Non-Apple tablets are very underserved for accessories, especially Windows tablets. If you are that targetting that niche, there are many things to try.
To name one, Windows/Android tablets are always starved for powered USB ports, and I've looked high and low for a suitable battery-powered USB hub to velcro onto the back of my tablet, but none such exist (one did exist, but it's no longer being made). Granted, this is an order of magnitude more complex than the mentioned silicone slip-ons, but there is wide demand for such.
Good luck with your business.
Thank you for the feedback!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1463948377/ears-for-the-surface-tablets
Surface RT and Surface 2 may not be doing well (though there's more than enough customers of them to make something like this work out financially), but the Ears are also available for Pro and Pro 2, and those are pretty popular...
Frankly, for the trivial amount OP was asking, he could well have covered it himself. KS has morphed from its original mission of crowdfunding seed money to be a PR vehicle, as well as feasibility feedback for marginal ventures. This particular is among the latter.
OP's post confirms this, as it was more for PR than getting opinions, since opinions only matter BEFORE committing to a proj, not after. This thing was going live regardless of feedback. Taking OP's KS blurb at face value, my guess is that this is more about the process rather than the end product, ie OP is gathering info for future widgets, presumably via the KS route, and a simple & cheap widget to start was ideal, regardless of its appeal. In short, a dry run.
Extrapolating from the 2-day take, the proj could conceivably make the nominal 5.5K amount ($348 / 2 * 30 = $5220), although normally interest is highest the first few days, then tapers off. But OP miscalculated on the "sweet spot" amount, and the $5 slot (that most backers opted for) is used up. He'll have a tougher time convincing people to pay $10 for the next slot up.
But as said, my impression is the means is the end in this case, and OP is laying the groundwork for more KS ventures. It would be better if the proj gets to its goal, as then he can get more data about the carry-through rather than just the lead-up. But it's not particularly important. He has already gotten a valuable piece of info about how much his widget is worth (about $5 incl shipping).
e.mote said:
To name one, Windows/Android tablets are always starved for powered USB ports, and I've looked high and low for a suitable battery-powered USB hub to velcro onto the back of my tablet, but none such exist (one did exist, but it's no longer being made). Granted, this is an order of magnitude more complex than the mentioned silicone slip-ons, but there is wide demand for such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not a full hub but:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Additions®-Battery-Extender-Batteries/dp/B002PHC1XU
^Battery pack with USB port
USB power injector cable:
http://www.newtech.cat/w/en/1473-USB-2-0-Cable-Double-Power-Injector--2xAM-AH--1-2m.html
Mains powered USB hubs are usually barrel jack connector. USB to barrel jack cables exist to use the above battery pack with a hub directly.
Neither option is the clean 1 piece unit but they are functional if you absolutely require a battery powered hub.
Of *course* the majority of the first 50 backers are going to go for the "get this thing half off" deal. That doesn't mean people wouldn't be willing to pay $10, just that they aren't going to pay 2x as much as they need to...
When I checked last night (midnight on US west coast), there were 0 people at the $10 or $15 levels. Now there are 7 and 1, respectively. That's not huge progress, but it's not bad for 11 hours in the middle of the night for the Surface's biggest market.
>Of *course* the majority of the first 50 backers are going to go for the "get this thing half off" deal.
People don't cost-justify for small amounts. Yes, my $5-ceiling guess looks to be off, and the $10 mark looks to still be under the impulse-spend threshold for the widget. Also, I didn't take into account that KS isn't just about crowdfunding money, but crowdsourcing publicity.
I'd retract my "Mickey Mouse ears = bad" comment. This falls into the "conventional wisdom" category that oddball accessories that clash against prevailing fashion sense are eschewed by the main. I think that still holds, but given the small numbers involved here, this isn't the main. For fringe projects, being unusual and weird is a plus in that it catches people's attention, and the money amount is small enough for impulse buy.
Yes, I dare say that if OP had shaped the ears to be like Mickey's, or Batman's, or a nekomimi shape (as a backer had requested), then the widget would have added "decorative" appeal. It can become a conversation piece. (How about glow in the dark?) Pragmatic concerns like "how does this work with a case" don't come into play until after the purchase, which are irrelevant for impulse buys.
Consumer buying and selling is mainly about psychology, and each platform has its own idiosyncracies. I've not paid attention to KS as a platform, but looks like I'll need to put it on my to-do list.
As said, all this is valuable data for OP as well as anybody who wants to make a go at the crowdfunding route--much more valuable than the actual project itself.
Congrats on passing your goal! Only 1/3 of the way through the campaign, too. I've seen some buzz online about this. Sorry I don't do more social media stuff myself. :-/
e.mote said:
Frankly, for the trivial amount OP was asking, he could well have covered it himself. KS has morphed from its original mission of crowdfunding seed money to be a PR vehicle, as well as feasibility feedback for marginal ventures. This particular is among the latter.
OP's post confirms this, as it was more for PR than getting opinions, since opinions only matter BEFORE committing to a proj, not after. This thing was going live regardless of feedback. Taking OP's KS blurb at face value, my guess is that this is more about the process rather than the end product, ie OP is gathering info for future widgets, presumably via the KS route, and a simple & cheap widget to start was ideal, regardless of its appeal. In short, a dry run.
Extrapolating from the 2-day take, the proj could conceivably make the nominal 5.5K amount ($348 / 2 * 30 = $5220), although normally interest is highest the first few days, then tapers off. But OP miscalculated on the "sweet spot" amount, and the $5 slot (that most backers opted for) is used up. He'll have a tougher time convincing people to pay $10 for the next slot up.
But as said, my impression is the means is the end in this case, and OP is laying the groundwork for more KS ventures. It would be better if the proj gets to its goal, as then he can get more data about the carry-through rather than just the lead-up. But it's not particularly important. He has already gotten a valuable piece of info about how much his widget is worth (about $5 incl shipping).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to get into conflict here but I want to say that this KS campaign was all about raising money and this thread was all about getting feedback. Since I have no money to produce these myself, this project would have never happened if the goal was not met. Period. I don't see the point to continue to put money into a project or business venture if people are unwilling to buy it. The whole point of Kickstarter. It doesn't make good business sense to me to continue to pour funds into a dying/dead business. There has to be an exit strategy. Mine was, if Kickstarter didn't meet the goal, the project will stop.
And no, no future Kickstarter projects planned. Personal I prefer to deal with angel investors. Yes, I have more projects and business' planned for the future, but none on Kickstarter for the foreseeable future.
I wanted more sound on my Surface, I thought the Surface crowd would share the same feelings as me, I have to put food on the table. Lets make a business!
GoodDayToDie said:
Congrats on passing your goal! Only 1/3 of the way through the campaign, too. I've seen some buzz online about this. Sorry I don't do more social media stuff myself. :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you! A much followed writer for Cnet Twitted about Ears and my project took off! It is back down again but I reached my goal. Surface owners are so far and few in between and Ears are very niche, so it is hard to get through to enough people. But it has been exciting to watch my project go.
Thanks!

Business Security: A Top Priority

One of your top priorities at your company should be your data security. No matter what you do in your line of business, there will always be people out there trying to steal information, especially if you are storing client data they can use to their advantage. You may not even realize that you could penalized if you aren’t protecting customer information as actively as the government thinks you should, so there is even more reason to ensure your security is managed properly. Fortunately, you can use a managed IT security service to take care of it for you.
Wendy’s learning the hard way
Wendy’s recently opened an investigation into a potential security threat and has hired a security firm to look into the issues to determine the problem and how to fix it. Apparently, there were cards used legitimately at Wendy’s and then later used for fraudulent charges elsewhere, according to NBC News. Wendy’s is unsure of what exactly happened and is hoping for a quick investigation, so the problem can be resolved. Rather than being reactive in situations like this, it is much better if you are proactive and protect from loss of private data in the first place.
Similar thefts have been happening at many major corporations, including a high profile one at Target and one at Home Depot. It seems that many companies that think they are protected end up being less protected than they think when it comes down to it and they have to prove themselves. Don’t be like the other guys. Set yourself apart by getting your security taken care of right now.
Staying above the law
When it comes to protecting consumer information, the government is very strict, especially when it comes to the healthcare and banking industry. It is your responsibility to know the laws associated with your industry and ensure all your information is being stored and processed as it should be, which is one way a managed IT security service can help you.
Get your business security on track
If you need to get your business security on track, the best way to go is to work with a managed IT security service. This kind of service can come in, survey your current system, look for any holes, and work with you to determine the best security possible for your line of work. This will include discussions about legalities when securing customer information as well as finding any kind of current holes in the system. A managed IT security service is a top priority and will be proactive to prevent little things from falling through the cracks that you never expected.
IT news brought to you by intrinium.com
Source: nbcnews.com/business/business-news/wendy-s-looks-possible-security-breach-after-credit-card-fraud-n505231
Great Post
Business security is extremely crucial. With emergence of BYOD and mobile apps, it is a challenge for developers to continuously provide extremely secured platform to protect sensible information.
Look at security measures that you cannot ignore:<mod snip>

Free(v.) phones!

Guys, I don't know about you, but I'm tired of this. I don't know about you, but I don't know of any other way of achieving this and so I've created this petition (second post). Or, we can idly sit by and have our rights slowly taken away. I clearly understand the "reasoning" behind this (although, to me, they sound more like excuses); however, I'm not advocating DEFAULT, but rather CHOICE! Here it is:
Useless bloatware floods our phones, and thus companies effectively rob us RAM, disk space, (mb) data, (personal info) data, and battery, but what's more, they lock down the opportunity to rid them, leaving some of us to resort to drastic measures such as rooting, leaving a handful of us with a semi-functional device (due to "Safety Net" games, losing Fingerprint Scanners, "Knox", you name it!) and the majority of those who dared, with a brick, uncovered by warranty due to their boldness of going against their draconian, greedy wishes.
Now, to illustrate this: apps that are free have ads, and if you don't want those ads, you pay for a PRO version, right? Why can't we decide what we want on a device we paid for? If they want to force content on us, shouldn't then the phone be free of cost?
The situation is tantamount to buying a car and having the manufacturer dictate you can't remove the stock radio in favor of a JVC, or "allowing" your use of only "x" brand of tires, or if you use "y" motor oil, your warranty will be void! Add to that locked bootloaders and UICCs in our devices, and pretty much you're paying someone large amounts of money to restrict your choices!! That has got to stop NOW!
Aren't companies supposed to care for us? It certainly doesn't show here. We are the consumers. Let's stop being the product, not the customer! We order. They comply!
Please sign if you agree. Petition in second post.
Sign if you agree!
Samsung: Free(v.) phones! - Sign the Petition!
https://www.change.org/p/samsung-free-v-phones?recruiter=618598739

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