Related
So this is slightly off-topic, but I think it ties in a little bit to a question/reaction that often comes up on the board.
I regularly see people posting a new thread with questions that have been asked before, and others become upset with them for posting something that has already been answered. This then leads to annoyance/anger on both sides, as the question-asker feels bad for not finding the answer (often after searching), and the question-answerer feels frustration because the forum has another new thread for something that they feel shouldn't have to be asked again.
I found this, which is the US Coast Guard's manual dealing with making decisions in stressful situations (it's a pdf). On page 11 of the document, it describes people trying to make decisions in stressful situations. It explains that an individual in a stressful situation where real danger is present (think back to the first time something went wrong on your phone....) will tend to say that there's not enough time to solve the problem, and that the person is not able to process information efficiently. It then says that the person will deny that the problem can be solved (by them).
Translation: The phone breaks (messes up, etc). The person sees that the very expensive device they own is not working right, and they begin to panic that it might not be able to be fixed. They know that XDA is an source for answers and help, and in the panicked state, post a question without thoroughly thinking through the action.
Ok, so why am I on a soapbox about this? Two reasons:
1. I don't know about anyone else here, but I can clearly remember times where I did something to my phone that I thought I had killed it. It was a real uphill struggle to stay calm and search diligently until I found what I was looking for. I would just like everyone to think back to their own experiences like this when replying to people who seem panicked.
2. To people who are panicking because something has gone wrong: try to relax. 99% of the time, whatever is wrong with the phone can be fixed, and you've come to the largest wealth of information available about your phone. Just take a little bit longer to do a little more searching before you hit the post button. And don't be afraid to use Google outside of XDA, or to search within the thread results.
And if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
(For more reading about stress' effect on decision-making, see this. It's the US Army Survival Manual, Chapter 2).
I vote because they are stupid.
And/or just haven't been in forums enough to understand how they work.
some people here are jerks
I vote nubs. Or just ignorance
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App
I think most of the time people just don't read up enough before flashing, they come to the site and see a ROM that they just have to get and they get in a hurry and bad things happen.
I read and read for about a month before I dared to flash and I haven't had any problems.
Now my friend comes to me every time she needs help with her phone like I know what I'm doing lol. But really I just know that the answer to any problem is here already you just have to find it.
Sent from my captivate running Speed and Looks Ginger Style
i am a noob so i know why (at least in my case)
1. should have read TRusselo's new user guide on first visit to xda
2. sometimes i search and do not find then a member shows me a thread i didnt know about thus confirming my inability to search successfully
3. some people post things in the wrong section (there is an off topic section, this is the captivate section and posting without searching is not exclusive to captivate users) this is a joke, not serious or meant to offend the |OP|
4. no knowledge of correct keywords to search (all the acronyms is like chinese to a noob) is there a xda dictionary for noobs?
5. the first thing we (noobs) do is panic. then we panic more. finally we relax...then panic again.
on behalf of all the noobs that post without searching we are sorry and as we learn more about the site we will improve upon our mistakes. please be patient with us, we appreciate your help and feel honored to be a part of this site.
We already had a thread like this. Use the search function.
Sorry about that. I'm still hunting for that link, but if you provide it, I'll update the OP.
I have discovered that I can't post up findings, observations or give thanks to the developers in the development form, because I do not have 10 posts
everything I search for I find, so no need to post.... so I am thinking some just post generic questions to get the post that they need.
But I do have to agree with the OP, when you think you killed your phone, you panic
jmtheiss said:
Sorry about that. I'm still hunting for that link, but if you provide it, I'll update the OP.
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I have a feeling that was just a joke playing on what you are posting about
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Yep, agree with op
Explains it on a deeper level than noob, lazy, or stupid. Some posses the ability to work in stressful situations and some don't. Those need to learn how before becoming a member of xda.
You're over complicating it. Half of the problem is that the native vBulletin search feature is wimpy and doesn't often return helpful results. And of course it consumes lot of server resources, it's down about as often as it isn't, and even when it is working you can only do it once every 30 seconds if you want to revise research terms or if you make a mistake. A Google cse custom search engine might go a long way toward helping out.
Chiding users for not using search is at least a little misplaced in my opinion. Comparisons to decision-making in critical life or death stressful situations are at least a little off-base.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Rrryan2 said:
You're over complicating it. Half of the problem is that the native vBulletin search feature is wimpy and doesn't often return helpful results. And of course it consumes lot of server resources, it's down about as often as it isn't, and even when it is working you can only do it once every 30 seconds if you want to revise research terms or if you make a mistake. A Google cse custom search engine might go a long way toward helping out.
Chiding users for not using search is at least a little misplaced in my opinion. Comparisons to decision-making in critical life or death stressful situations are at least a little off-base.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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I agree with both views. I have yet to meet a v-bulletin site whose search function was worth a tinker's damn... and a number of the folks who voted "stupid" or "lazy" when it comes to someone posting a repeat question seem to forget that this is a very large forum, with tens of thousands of posts. Sometimes, finding the one post or series of posts that can be of use when you think you've just killed your $199 to $500 phone can be a bit tough.
Also, even when it's not a subject I have a vested interest in finding the answer to, I sometimes appreciate the repeat of a question that has already been asked because often someone (whose ego isn't so invested somehow proving their worth by being "right") will ever-so-kindly skip the lectures and point out threads I had no idea existed--and which I can then bookmark for later reference.
I've learned some very cool things about the care and feeding of my Captivate as a result (to say nothing of gaining more general information on a number of devices), so I'm not overly inclined to squawk when someone asks a question that's been asked before.
kevalin said:
I agree with both views. I have yet to meet a v-bulletin site whose search function was worth a tinker's damn... and a number of the folks who voted "stupid" or "lazy" when it comes to someone posting a repeat question seem to forget that this is a very large forum, with tens of thousands of posts. Sometimes, finding the one post or series of posts that can be of use when you think you've just killed your $199 to $500 phone can be a bit tough.
Also, even when it's not a subject I have a vested interest in finding the answer to, I sometimes appreciate the repeat of a question that has already been asked because often someone (whose ego isn't so invested somehow proving their worth by being "right") will ever-so-kindly skip the lectures and point out threads I had no idea existed--and which I can then bookmark for later reference.
I've learned some very cool things about the care and feeding of my Captivate as a result (to say nothing of gaining more general information on a number of devices), so I'm not overly inclined to squawk when someone asks a question that's been asked before.
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Amen to that!
z28james said:
I have a feeling that was just a joke playing on what you are posting about
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
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In the immortal words of a small Sicilian man,
"INCONCEIVABLE!"
Next let's hear your theory on pointless, off topic threads!
AJerman said:
Next let's hear your theory on pointless, off topic threads!
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And how to search for them?
It seems to me that there is a lot of frustration amongst devs, those in the know, and the unschooled to the ways regarding pretty basic information. Stuff like "is MR2 froyo or gingerbread?". I know I'd be asking and saying some industrial strength stupid and annoying things if I didn't have a good friend in the know. I suppose what I'm suggesting here is perhaps several things. The first would be describing a number of specifications regarding the ROM or kernel at hand. Not just for the latest ROM or kernel, but for all the downloads available on the OP. Usually the change log covers that, but what I'm suggesting here is a certain I uniformity of certain information. That way some noob can go do his homework real fast and not post some stupid question.
The second thought I have is creating the "stupid question thread" (that would grow like a weed, huh?). It would have basic stuff like what the RUU's are, their characteristics, what radios they work with, what the different radios are, setting up ADB, and really basic stuff that I keep seeing posted again and again all over. I was reading through the Tbolt forums months before I got my Tbolt and my last phone was an Incredible so the worlds didn't change a hell of a lot for your average flashing junky. But that isn't everybody's experience. I'm suggesting a thread or the guy that just got his Tbolt and is saying "Now I wanna root it!" then "It's rooted! Now what's out there!" And zap! there's te thread that gives him a rundown of all the basics.
This sound like a good idea to anyone? If so, let me know and I'll work something up.
I am a noob, TB being my first Android phone. When I started reading the forums, my very first thought was: how come I can't find a noob thread that I can actually understand, that explains the basics, etc. It did not exist! Hence al the annoying (to some) posts elsewhere. If such a thread existed it would have been a huge help for me. It could be organized similar to ROM threads, with some introductory remarks, (a radio is XYZ, you flash it this way, etc.) followed by specific questions / comments. I like the idea!
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
This is a good idea.. if no one makes one soon ill take it up
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App
There is no substitute for taking the time to read the various threads and educating yourself. I think the devs do a pretty good job of supporting their work but to ask them to put together super noob threads and FAQs is just not something they're gonna do with any regularity.
The reason why no one has done it is because all of the noobs are to lazy or ignorant to read those threads, then continue to post their stupid and already-answered question anyway, flooding the threads as usual.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
I think it sounds like a good idea but as stated above people probably won't read it or take it's advice. Typically all the ROM/Kernel threads state EVERYTHING needed to know in the OP. Yet people will still ALWAYS ask something that is answered in the OP. Most people look at screenshots and then jump straight to the download link. This is my 3rd Android phone and when I got the TBolt I read and read prior to rooting. I had one issue that I hadn't seen posted so I asked. Then I ended up figuring it out on my own anyways. If people would just read info prior to downloading and jumping into it they would be fine. Creating a new thread with basics is great but how effective will it truely be?
Mustang302LX said:
I think it sounds like a good idea but as stated above people probably won't read it or take it's advice. Typically all the ROM/Kernel threads state EVERYTHING needed to know in the OP. Yet people will still ALWAYS ask something that is answered in the OP. Most people look at screenshots and then jump straight to the download link. This is my 3rd Android phone and when I got the TBolt I read and read prior to rooting. I had one issue that I hadn't seen posted so I asked. Then I ended up figuring it out on my own anyways. If people would just read info prior to downloading and jumping into it they would be fine. Creating a new thread with basics is great but how effective will it truely be?
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I agree with you 99%. However, there are several cases especially with BAMF threads where there are hundreds of pages and thousands of posts. The OP many times doesn't have solutions to common problems and the only way to find an answer is to spend hours reading through hundreds of pages. (I admit that BAMF is doing much better with their 3.0 RC2 thread). I know you are going to say to search but when a thread is that large it is hard to find meaningful search results.
Google is a noobs best friend. What is an RUU? Google it! What is deodexed? Google it! Etc. Etc. Etc...... The Devs develop. It's our job to educate ourselves. They do this for free. Between the forums and Google, most if not all questions can be answered. The ones that can't be answered is when the forums should be used. Just my opinion.
mpfstc said:
Google is a noobs best friend. What is an RUU? Google it! What is deodexed? Google it! Etc. Etc. Etc...... The Devs develop. It's our job to educate ourselves. They do this for free. Between the forums and Google, most if not all questions can be answered. The ones that can't be answered is when the forums should be used. Just my opinion.
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Agree. But, the question "can the X patch from the previous version be used on this version?" People get flamed for asking questions like that and many times there is nothing on the OP.
droidisawesome said:
Agree. But, the question "can the X patch from the previous version be used on this version?" People get flamed for asking questions like that and many times there is nothing on the OP.
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Because most often.. the dev himself does not know the answer.. and honestly.. the best way to know if something works or not is try it yourself. .. so I can understand when devs get frustrated with people asking certain permutation and combination of patches will work with their roms or not.
Once you understand (which comes with experience and lot of googling).. what affects certain aspects of a rom.. then you'll know yourself if a particular patch will work or not.
Patches from previous roms or other roms.. will never brick your phone.. the worst.. your phone won't boot up.. or it'll boot up and FC like crazy.. in which case you can always restore.
and I agree.. the best way for a noob to educate is google..
googling is an art.. once you get good at it.. there is almost nothing that you can't get information about.
And with some of the responses I just read in this thread is exactly why I haven't rooted my T-bolt yet. I rooted my D1 and really enjoyed flashing different ROMs and Themes but the HTC experience is a bit different from the one on the Motorola. I don't feel like getting flamed for asking something that those of you that have been using HTC long enough now find to be a useless question. I ran Blackdroids ROMs because he had an IRC channel where you could ask questions without being flamed openly in a forum for 100+ to see. I learned quite a bit to where I could eventually help others with it but I'm not at all comfortable yet with Hboot and ADB but hope to learn enough from reading to not bother you with questions you find trivial. I've read for a week now so what's another week
It appears there is a need for what I propose. Regarding those who's complaint is that nobody will read it, I say, at least someone put forth the effort and if someone like, linking to the thread is easy. Indeed looking stuff up for yourself is wise, however, it takes more time for people and all too often you don't know how accurate what your reading is or from what authority the writer speaks. I will agree most devs supply ample info on their work, but often its in jargon that makes no sense or lacks context. Part of the purpose for this thread would be to supply sense and context.
Hopefully over the next few days I can find time to whip something up. I welcome all suggestions and comments for content!
You've probably read the new Operation Iron Fist going on here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=1159
As of now, I will no longer stand for the way some things are going here. If I see ANY trolling, flaming, or disrespectful behaviour, you will receive an infraction on the spot. No more warnings.
Also, offtopic chatter on the development forums is exceptionally high here. This will stop, since I will also infract upon it.
Just one more thing: if you encounter ANY of above mentioned offences, let me know ASAP, instead of foulmouthing about it on the public forum. If I see that, you WILL get an infraction too.
I am sorry for acting this way, but you guys are forcing me to do this.
Sounds good to me, unless "iron fist" translates in reality to Naziism.
There's a difference in insulting people, and trying to contribute and being attacked. I tried to contribute by pointing out that there were several bugs that were fairly severe. If a user doesn't point them out, what's the point of ever releasing anything beyond 1.0 and then closing the thread?
However, there's a small group of users in the community who have resorted to fanaticism, and when someone goes that direction it shouldn't be tolerated. When I get criticized for bringing up a bug, and told I'm a "habitual complainer" how is that supposed to encourage anyone to want to participate in the DEVELOPMENT of anything for any phone? For some reason the Infuse 4G participants who I'm referring to seem really on edge, and speak out (often personally) about anyone who says anything aside from praise.
We're not here to be reassured that the world is 100% good, and that everything everyone says is amazing, we're here to participate in an active development community, be it as a developer, or as a contributing end user. The moment you criticize your user base is the moment you go from being an open community of developers and end users to a system of dictatorship, and closed platformism (yeah, it's a word now because I said so), lol.
To the people who squash anyone who's new, or doesn't know something, or volunteers that they're having a problem and need help, STOP. There's no need to make someone feel bad for asking a question a second time in a 3000+ post thread and then criticizing them for not reading the answer in post 2106 on page 291. There's no need to tell someone they are full of crap when they say they're having internet speed issues, and that since it works for you to your satisfaction that they're obviously less intelligent. There's no reason to tell someone they're wrong just because you disagree with them.
To make this a "community" everyone has to be understanding that everyone has their opinions, and that we're all here to make the phone in whatever thread a better phone.
Without developers, this site wouldn't exist. Without end users wanting mods, this site wouldn't exist. If you continue to alienate anyone who's new and turn this into a fanboy forum, it's just going to send them back to Apple iOS forums and devices. If that's how you want to help turn the mobile community, fine, but personally, I don't.
Bella
True to some extent. But the main problem is this:
NeoS2007 said:
Just one more thing: if you encounter ANY of above mentioned offences, let me know ASAP, instead of foulmouthing about it on the public forum. If I see that, you WILL get an infraction too.
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Most people here think they can say ANYTHING to ANYONE. That's not what this forum is about. It's aimed at development and not discussion. If you feel you should debate in any way, move to another forum.
And you can call my method anything you like, I used to warn everyone before acting, but that's over. You of all people should know that.
I'm not about to take any sides, but Bella, you're completely out of line. Being part of the community is different than creating your own community. This is a group working together towards a common goal. To reach that goal, we must provide detailed, factual and documented information to the dev(s) so that we can enable them to create the best possible releases. I've seen no images, logcat, etc. that was provided by you. Granted, there are several others in the forum not providing these details, but there are several who have provided very specific and detailed information. It took far too long for you to provide this kind of information and it only turned the conversation south. You are not alone, so know I am not singing you out; there were several others who contributed to a negative environment. The reason for my posting this is because you were the only one to come here and plead your case.
That said, this is a community filled with individuals. We all have different personalities and will act and react differently to different scenarios. Hopefully this can be the beginning of a constructive and collaborative effort by us all to truly bring our Infuse to the next level.
I will not retort nor reply, I am simply sharing my views and experiences in this forum so far. The Captivate started off rough, but never reached this level. It won't be easy resurrecting this one from the ashes, but it can be done.
Right, you say I was unable to provide any factual data, yet I responded each time with factual and accurate data that was requested by GTG. I think some people get frustrated because often issues that come up are issues they just don't know how to solve, and often that leads to accusations that the end user is crazy, unintelligent, or just uncooperative, when the case is the opposite.
Clearly in the end I identified a data connectivity issue first (review thread if you like) that's been significant enough for him now to pull the ROM until he can resolve the issue. Rather than fellow members responding with productive comments, they responded in an attacking manor. My point was valid (as vetted by GTG at this point), and for those who weren't having the issue, why pipe in and say there's no problem? Do you take your car to the mechanic and tell him everything is working fine?
Initially I was called a complainer for bringing it to the attention. Unfortunately as a developer you can't expect that an end user is always going to be able to provide the detail you need. If I had the experience and desire to build a ROM I'd do it myself. It's kinda like building a house then expecting to know where to find a pipe junction inside a wall that only you know where it is. There's only so much expectation you can have of the end users.
Additionally, this is not the Google Developers Forum. This is not a forum of official Android releases, this is a hobbyist community of people who want to tinker with their phone. If a developer wants to be in an environment of developing for Google, maybe they ought to apply for a position at google.com/jobs. The ROMs that come out of XDA are great, but we have to realize there is nothing official about anything that comes from these forums.
I think the comment should be changed from "development, not discussion" to development and on-topic discussion. Because if you discourage discussion, it's like discouraging shopping in a mall. Discussion is what makes a forum like this great.
I'll certainly commit to staying on topic in the future.
Have at it neo. Thanks
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997R using XDA App
Bella, you never provided the data requested. You just compared two modems - this was NOT what gtg asked for. He asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 performance. After looking through the thread, I'm fairly certain never provided this information, you just maintained that you had provided the requested data because of your modem comparison tests.
Perhaps you were under the mistaken impression that 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 was a modem firmware change - if you had opened the update zip to analyze the contents you would see that it was not. There's a reason gtg specifically asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 and not to compare UCKE3 vs UXKG3 modems, and the latter is what you did.
Also, the network connectivity issue was only one of the reasons gtg pulled the ROM. He was trying to be nice, but the poor attitude of many users in the thread was a MAJOR contribution to the ROM pull also. In addition to that, at least two developers have stated either in posts here or on IRC that they are extremely uneasy about releasing any ROM images on these forums because of the poor behavior on these threads. It is also why I currently have a "no support, don't PM me" policy for the kernel I released - it was the only solution to getting experienced users the build that many were asking for without subjecting myself to the painful experience gtg did.
PLEASE have at it! I haven't visited this forum in a few years (iPhone) and now that i'm back with an Infuse this place isn't anything like it use to be.
My 2cents.
Entropy512 said:
Bella, you never provided the data requested. You just compared two modems - this was NOT what gtg asked for. He asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 performance. After looking through the thread, I'm fairly certain never provided this information, you just maintained that you had provided the requested data because of your modem comparison tests.
Perhaps you were under the mistaken impression that 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 was a modem firmware change - if you had opened the update zip to analyze the contents you would see that it was not. There's a reason gtg specifically asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 and not to compare UCKE3 vs UXKG3 modems, and the latter is what you did.
Also, the network connectivity issue was only one of the reasons gtg pulled the ROM. He was trying to be nice, but the poor attitude of many users in the thread was a MAJOR contribution to the ROM pull also. In addition to that, at least two developers have stated either in posts here or on IRC that they are extremely uneasy about releasing any ROM images on these forums because of the poor behavior on these threads. It is also why I currently have a "no support, don't PM me" policy for the kernel I released - it was the only solution to getting experienced users the build that many were asking for without subjecting myself to the painful experience gtg did.
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Understood. I provided what he asked to the best of my ability at the time ... I'd reference my post but I'm not digging through a 3000 message thread, sorry. :-(
Matt-Helm said:
PLEASE have at it! I haven't visited this forum in a few years (iPhone) and now that i'm back with an Infuse this place isn't anything like it use to be.
My 2cents.
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The Inspire and Aria forums were much more friendly, it's not this site, it's just the Infuse forum in general. I had a very positive experience in the Inspire threads
I think it was not the fact that you raised an issue that bothered the developers, it was the manner in which it was raised.
Also, look at it from a developer's perspective - when the thread is filled with posts that clearly indicate that the poster didn't even read the first post of the thread in its entirety (not saying that you did this, but many others did), it gets massively frustrating.
I've never seen so many people completely fail to read/comprehend the first post of a thread as the Infused v2 thread. Even after it was put into the first post as a known issue, we still got reports of HDMI not working every 3-4 pages.
After what could be effectively described only as an all-weekend hack session two weekends ago, everyone's been a bit exhausted/burned out. But everyone keeps demanding MORE MORE MORE!
Entropy512 said:
Also, look at it from a developer's perspective - when the thread is filled with posts that clearly indicate that the poster didn't even read the first post of the thread in its entirety (not saying that you did this, but many others did), it gets massively frustrating.
I've never seen so many people completely fail to read/comprehend the first post of a thread as the Infused v2 thread. Even after it was put into the first post as a known issue, we still got reports of HDMI not working every 3-4 pages.
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I agree 100% ... the only thing I can say is that remember that many people come from iphone, aka the dev team blog, which is much different. On theirs you read from the bottom up. I don't think that's an excuse since XDA uses the globally accepted standard in forums. But yeah, last night there were about 25 people in an hour asking why the links didn't work, lol.
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
AdamOutler said:
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
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I know my mouth (and legs) will be shut going forward.
Bravo Neo. Bravoooooooooooooo.
Thank you!
Looking forward to seeing a cleaned up forum!
by the way? how do u become an admin?
i spend way to much time on here...even while im at work (because its my job relates highly to this)
AdamOutler said:
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
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(removed comment)
looking forward to clean and healthy forum.
I hope I'm not going to make any enemies by saying this, but I can't say I entirely agree with this being an iron fist. So far all that has been done is the Infused v2 ROM thread was locked. On any other forum I frequent they start with punishing the offenders individually, and only lock the thread as a last resort. I didn't see anybody get personally warned and I didn't see anybody get banned, and it really was only a handful that caused problems. I know there were a LOT of people that were posting the same questions over and over, but that can't be helped most of the time. The ones that were bickering and really ruining the thread are still posting happy as can be. I know it sounds like I'm questioning the mod(s) or being ungrateful, but I don't mean it that way. I just feel like we lost the ability to have an important and fun discussion before all the possible options were explored. Now if gtg asked for the thread to be locked then that is an entirely different matter, but I didn't get that impression from reading the last post.
I really do enjoy these forums and always have, and feel like this board is run very well. By this board, I mean the Infuse board. I just wanted to say that I don't know if I entirely agree with the way the infused thread was handled.
EDIT: I wanted to add that I know the mod(s) do this for free in their spare time, and I know that you can't police it 24/7. I really do appreciate your efforts at running this board, and the ONLY thing that I've seen that I take "issue" with is the handling of the Infused thread. Maybe there are things behind the scenes that I didn't see, and if that is the case then I apologize.
The Infused forum is only locked temporarily, as I asked the dev to contact me when his rom is finished.
Thanks for your support people. Just remember to report anything that's offensive/disrespectful/wrong/etc. and I'll take care of it.
NeoS2007 said:
The Infused forum is only locked temporarily, as I asked the dev to contact me when his rom is finished.
Thanks for your support people. Just remember to report anything that's offensive/disrespectful/wrong/etc. and I'll take care of it.
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I did see where it was locked only temporarily. I just wanted to get that off my chest, so to speak. It wasn't REALLY bugging me, but I did get pretty frustrated with how people were acting. It was pretty ridiculous. Like I said before, I really do appreciate your efforts to keep our forums running smoothly. Thank you for your continued presence and work, and for not taking my post personally, (at least I don't think you did ).
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
This thread needs to have an article on the XDA front page portal ASAP
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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As a noob who spent a LOT of time/energy/effort researching on my own trying to unnoob myself before asking silly questions I understand where the frustration is from. People like me who took that time (I'm talking many hours per day for straight weeks - 100s of hours!) are frustrated by people who expect easy answers with minimal effort. It's easy to panic if something unexpected happens and you no longer have a working phone but that's the risk you take and no one should bear the brunt of that panic but YOU.
That said, I actually agree with you. I think not replying to people who ask dumb questions is probably a better way to help the community at large. The knee-jerk reaction when tension is high is to send a smart ass response but that doesn't teach anyone anything. I know it's tempting, I've done it, but all it does is feed the troll. If a noob asks a researchable question and NO ONE answers, maybe it will inspire this noob to search for the answer on their own. And if/when they find it, they can be proud of themselves for figuring it out and next time I will bet you they search first and ask questions later. The bigger problem is that sometimes a SUPER NICE person will hold their hand and help them out even if they don't deserve it and then everyone expects this treatment every time.
Point of fact: if you're on XDA you are probably trying to pimp out/modify your phone in some way. This is your choice, and some of the options available to you are not easy. If you aren't prepared to put in the time to become familiar with it first, it isn't worth the risk. I'm sure there is some clause to that effect in the XDA rules everyone agrees to when they sign up but they always forget that.
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
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I don't know too much about things but I'm already willing to learn if i have the time for it. I agree about the rudeness, and every forum is different. I was on the g1 forums too and understand what you mean. When i got my 4GS I came here when deving was picking up on the few excellent ROMs we have now. My device had the new bootloader so i had trouble at first picking up on things since i couldn't S-OFF and had to fastboot boot.imgs EVERYTIME i flashed a new ROM.
I had to read read read like crazy and put many hours into getting my phone to where it is now (rooted and S-OFF via Juopunutbear) and only when i really needed help and couldn't figure things out on my own is when i asked about something.
All it takes is a little effort and i try to help where i can (as little as that may have been...lol) Sometimes i can understand the frustration from both sides.
There is tho, a difference between being rude and getting upset after you tell someone what they need to know and they don't do it. You see people asking the same questions over and over AFTER they've been given a clear fix to the answer and i can see why some get pissed. I know if i can do these things that ANYONE can.
We have good devs and quite a few that truly are willing to help where they can. With the g1 there was an overflow of devs and others who helped. (Can't really compare them) The lack here limits time for most who already have their hands full so we have to be willing to do some things ourselves.
I'm not telling you to leave but things will be this way here probably permanently. Don't think everyone doesn't want to help tho cuz most do
Sent from my 4GSlide using xdApp
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
gtmaster303 said:
Considering you've made MULTIPLE threads regarding problems that already have STEP BY STEP guides, it's kind of hard to be patient and spoon feed all the answers.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?searchid=42059167
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Oh man. I should have checked that before spending the time to type out a thought-out response. It confuses me when people spend so much time begging for step by step instructions. In that time you could have read the compendium and had it done by now!
Also - it's the internet. If someone hurts your feelings by being rude on the internet, grow up or log out. Cyberbullying is a serious issue if someone knows your true identity, but you choose to come here. Flame posts are discouraged because they are usually unhelpful. They clutter up threads and get in the way of useful stuff which makes them wastes of bandwidth and forum space. They are not discouraged because somebody might get their feelings hurt. (If I'm wrong about that - don't correct me. I would be super bummed if XDA was that sensitivo about stuff.)
crimedave1987 said:
XDA SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING RUDE AND OBNOXIOUS
basically im upset cause xda was never like this when i had my g1 people was very nice on giving DETAIL BABY STEPS on getting what you want i mean come on i dont understand how is it so bad to teach us first timers some slack
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Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
K7Cobb said:
Totally Our Thread is DEAD cause no one wants to ask for help because of some of the obvious responses
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda premium
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Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
AgentCherryColla said:
Like search it? I don't know where this is going? I understand being helpful. But when you have the same question being asked by 20 people. Being answered about 100x, it's annoying.
But I agree flamming is getting out of hand. There should be a thread just for Noobs. To ask stupid as questions, and not be flammed.
Sent from my MIUI V4
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Just one thread for noobs? Why not an entire forum? No, forget that...how about an entire website for noobs????? I'll invent this! I think I'll call it PPCGeeks.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201
Every post asking a question already answered multiple times clutters the forum and makes it harder to find those very answers for other people.
Finding one thread in ten is easier then one thread in fifty, especially when forty of them are worthless.
I have volunteered countless hours researching, testing, and writing in-depth step-by-step guides that someone who has no experience can sit down and follow through.
Honestly, asking for things already detailed like that is hard to deal with - the only way to do so would be to physically do it for them.
Everytime I see someone make a whole new thread just to advertise that they are too lazy to go read the answer, it makes people like me think twice about taking the time to write these guides.
I don't usually post to these kind of threads, but it's here so why not.
There would be more walkthroughs and tutorials if people took the time to read the ones already here. Why make them if people won't read them anyway?
So all you people out there who can't be bothered to look for the answer before asking your question, you are turning away the developers and people who could answer your questions.
The more people show up begging for a handout, the less people there are giving it. Eventually that road leads to nothing but beggars, with no one to beg from.
If it wasn't for people asking intelligent questions based on having read my tutorials, I wouldn't consider any further ones. If someone doesn't get it, but actually put effort into trying, I'm happy to help.
Someone can't be bothered to even try to help themselves, why should I try to help them - especially after they are making it more difficult for others to get the help.
Others who deserve it.
Others who have earned it by investing time and effort.
So, I implore people to take the time to understand what XDA is. It is not instant gratification.
Don't ruin what you don't understand.
Every post not adding something constructive is taking away from the ones that do, in a big way. The larger the database becomes, the harder it is to index and process server side, and the harder it is to navigate and use client side.
The answer is here - just look for it.
Be kind, considerate and helpful - try to add more then you take away.
If my post offends you, then you are part of the problem.
So Close the Thread and Move On
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
eparico said:
I'm by no means a stranger to technology but I am relatively new to rooting phones. I've done my research and through my own trial and error, figured out how to root my phone. As others have stated, I spent several hours browsing this site looking for the answers even before I upgraded to the 4GS. What I've seen on these boards is while there are multiple threads asking the same questions, there have also been condescending replies from some. While it could be considered warranted to be frustrated with the constant barrage of repetitive questions, why not just close or delete the thread instead of firing back at those who are too lazy to do their research? If you're worried about cluttering up the boards/threads, why contribute to it?
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Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
Because the mods are not here to be babysitters, and the community should be self policing to an extent.
Every once in a while it's necessary to explain why being inconsiderate and expecting people to do your work for you is detrimental to the community.
Detailing why expecting people to invest their scarce free time and energy into the effort some are too lazy to even attempt, and how that degrades the resource this community is hopefully educates some and prevents them from doing so in the future.
It's threads like this where those types get together and reinforce their ignorance, and encourage others to follow suit that exacerbates the problems for the rest of us, and creates bigger headaches for the mods to deal with.
Again, hopefully a little education goes a long way, and the gamble is that a few posts highlighting the problem and how it hurts prevents more like this from popping up.
I mean, when the information asked about is in a stickied post ( as all too often it is ) that is literally an intentional and blatent abuse and subversion of the forums.
...and lastly, I have no computer to dev on so for once am willing to try to plead with the ones who would try to hinder our exchange of knowledge from doing so.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Don't get me wrong, I feel your frustration and those of the other developers and/or mods who are constantly attempting to answer questions that have been asked and answered multiple times already. I've been supporting end users for several years and there are some who no matter how many times you tell them something (sometimes kicking and screaming the entire time), they either ignore what you say or flat out refuse to learn since there's someone there to scoop them out of the hole they put themselves in. I fully agree that some are deserving of a good cyber-smack and told they're being inconsiderate.
However, those who reply to these same threads are also expending just as much time and energy, if not more, telling someone they should do their own research instead of just removing or closing the thread in question. In turn, this would serve to help eliminate that blatant abuse and IMO, take a lot less energy and frustration with the ignorance out of the picture. It would also help to keep the threads and the space needed to maintain this site to a minimum. Self-policing will only work to a small degree. Should it be the responsibility of the mods to babysit? No, but you also can't expect every person who comes to this site to have enough sense to do their own research either. I've dealt with enough end users where I find the expectation from some is that they should be served on a silver platter. After a few time of dealing with this, I reply by not replying.
By the way, I love this site and I thank you and all the other developers who have created these ROM's for those of us who like to tinker with our toys...and read the instructions!
eparico said:
I reply by not replying.
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This is my usual stance as well, but also include the report action.
By self policing I didn't necessarily mean snap back, mostly report so mods can delete.
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement.
Back to the mods babysitting, even through the report function it may take some time for them to get to the thread, based on availability and priority.
Meantime, you do nothing and it's like a wound untreated, and just festers growing continually worse.
What can you do? Some people passed the patience threshold a long time ago. Those that say nothing are percieved to let them just run rampant.
Threads like what this started as, and the ones we are discussing are real blows to morale and interest.
I used to dedicate at a minimum my first half an hour of every login to trying to answer or find answers to questions people have, and help them get themselves straightened out.
Anymore, it seems that most of the questions asking for help are just from people like the discussion is about
If I open the first thread, and it's a question asked all the time with the answer in a sticky, I'll move to the next.
If the second one is too, well, anymore that's as far as I go before I just log out and find something else to do.
It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.
That would get me all juiced up and i'd flow into hours of dev, manning the irc channel and just immersing myself in the doubleshot.
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.
The people replying with smart-ass remarks and garbage are just as much to blame for keeping those threads at the top of the list as the ignorant people who started them in the first place.
Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
A large part of my desire in working on projects for the community was to help people get more out of their device by delivering stable, working software and encouraging education and learning.
Those that want to be spoonfed are winning, I've been recently choosing to do other things then even try to browse the forums here.
I dunno, it's like I went into life to handle some things and start a much more enjoyable and higher paying career. Now that I'm settled in and can spend time back here again, it's like I don't even recognize it anymore.
They say you can't go home once you've been away, because while you may be in the place you once called home it won't be that anymore when you get there.
Never thought in a million years i'd feel like a stranger in the doubleshot forums, but here we are and here it is.
It's kinda made me sad to write this.
Sent from a digital distance.
Blue6IX said:
You keep saying delete the thread, as if an end user has that priviledge, but we don't. It's easy to say, but harder to implement
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After re-reading my post about deleting/closing the thread in question, I didn't word my comment properly. Unfortunately, this responsibility would end up on the shoulders of the admins/mods...the proverbial babysitting we were referring to earlier.
Sorry if this is a sour subject for you. If anything though, I'd take into consideration the number of people who you have already helped on this site instead of looking at the ones who bring you down. I've seen some of your threads and replies to those who you are willing to help and you provide a wealth of knowledge and information. There will always be someone out there who is willing to read and absorb what you teach, and perhaps even share it with others so they too can learn. As a supporter of end users, I understand that feeling of wanting to give up but what keeps me going is the knowing that I helped some of them along the way. The bad apples will always be just that, bad apples. I work in the education field (thankfully not a teacher) so I see this type of mentality on an almost daily basis. Toss them aside and remember you have already helped many more good apples than bad.
Geez, I feel like I'm preaching here so I'll get off my soap box but I'm sure you get the point of what I'm trying to say. Don't ever give up and don't let the boneheads get the better part of you. Lots of people on this site appreciate what you do, including myself.
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
There are very simple rules that span across the internet. One of them is use search on forums. If you don't know this rule, frankly, you shouldn't be messing around with your phone in a way that violates the warranty or changes the configuration beyond what your grandmother can do with the same phone.
Creating threads without searching is the equivalent of going into a crowded mall, standing in the middle and shouting, "I NEED HELP HERE PLEASE". I think many will agree that any person that does that in a mall is an a**hole. You're not ENTITLED to help.
You SHOULD know this. If you don't, you're new to the internet, and perhaps you just don't have the skills or sense to be messing around with your phone.
The one thing that you can't expect people to know is that the answer to your question MIGHT be located in another device's forum. For example, how do you install Time Warner's app on rooted devices? You'd have to search the whole site. But now that you've read this, you know better.
We've all made mistakes. How you make up for them is key. I pay developers. What do you do?
WeekendsR2Short said:
This thread doesn't need to be taken down......it should be stickied for future reference!!
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Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
gtmaster303 said:
Not even close...
Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using xda app-developers app
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Just a touch of truthful sarcasm......:angel:
Blue6IX said:
.....It used to be that i'd end up spending several hours over that dedicated first 30 minutes typing up detailed replies and explanations of why people were getting into the problems they were and trying to help them understand how Android works under the hood.....
Now... Well, when those first couple of questions are like what this thread is about, it just saps my motivation, the very desire to learn that puts me at the keyboard for so long.....
....Given that I am starting to catch up with myself at work and having free time in blocks of hours to work on Android stuff for the doubleshot, more often then not I sit down all ready to work on something fun and new, just to find myself walking away from the keyboard somewhat depressed and disappointed instead.
Sent from a digital distance.
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Blue (and others)
Please don't get disheartened, certainly don't give up on XDA. I am relatively new to Android, certainly new to rooting, and I haven't even tried ROMs yet (that's for next week!). I am still working towards my 10 posts, while I've rooted and S-OFFed using the guidance available here.
In my time, I have researched & read up pretty widely on this forum and on others, on all the things I would like to do or am intrigued to find out about (custom boot animations - wow!). These is so much repeated and conflicting information out there. In doing that you soon get to recognise the posts that explain carefully, give step-by-step guides, and are helpful. You also quickly learn whose name is on those posts .They have a natural authority that lends credibility and builds trust. Those posts are the ones I bookmark and use, and those people are the ones I take advice from.
Your name is all over the best and most useful posts. There are others too but I won't name them here. Please don't stop - your efforts are appreciated. If you stop, I have to stop too, as who do I then learn from?
Coming from being an iPhone fanboy, I was well aware of the snooty attitudes that are rampant over there. Now that I have a taste of the Android side, I have learned a few things, some the hard way, and one thing I've noticed is how the attitudes are much the same. I have met some cool people with some great ideas and skills, and there are even a few that will answer questions. I get that some get annoyed at the asking of the same questions over and over. However, as a Dev, you should be expecting this. As Android takes more and more market share, new people are coming into this (like me) and trying to learn as much as we can. Some want simple answers, some want more complicated ones. I did a lot of the research myself, watching videos, Google searches, etc. But some people don't know how to, or just aren't computer literate.
XDA is a GREAT resource for information. But like other sites, sometimes you have to word your searches just right or you get nothing close to what you are trying to find out. Not the site's fault, it's just the way search engines are. So a hoard of people head into the threads, asking questions, and mostly getting good answers, But, as I have trolled through, I notice a lot of attitudes coming from devs, or friends of devs as they attack people because they didn't have 4 hours to troll though 500 pages in a thread, reading each and every post. Hoping their question was asked and answered before. If that makes you angry, maybe you should just make your ROMs and share them with a few friends and call it a day. From what I can see, most of the ROMs are pretty much the same in a lot of respects. I know the difference between TW ROMs and AOSP ROMs. I did the homework. I learned the hard way by soft bricking my phone, and I researched and got myself out of that jam thanks to the videos and postings of some nice people. There are a lot of people that don't have the PC skills or the time to do that. And even more that have no idea about message boards and how they work. BTW, the term "flaming" someone is as irritating to me as those people that ask the same questions over and over are to you. This is almost 2013. Terms like that are the exact reason I hate having to use message boards. Not everyone is as knowledgeable as you are. It doesn't mean they are dumb, they just don't want to learn, or they don't have the time.
I guess I'm trying to say, if you are going to put yourself out there by developing a ROM for free, and then complain because someone asks you a question or bugs you because you haven't updated it, maybe you should just all start charging for the ROMs. I will go back to stock myself, but I'm sure there are a few that will pay to have a few extras a little ahead of time. Then your base will shrink, allowing you to breathe easier knowing you are getting paid for your time. Maybe then, you will have to be a little nicer, more customer friendly. If you don't think you are getting the recognition you deserve, then don't do it. I know many would miss the customization, but they would quickly forget about it and find something else to do. And by the way, I have never had an issue like this. I'm strictly speaking from an observers point of view. Matter of fact, I may start doing some reviews, that will include not only the ROM itself, but the developers attitude when it comes to helping people through their issues. I think people should have the right to know if they are going to get help or not when choosing a ROM or other custom feature.
In closing, a lot of questions could be answered if some threads were created and "stickied" that explain the basic functions and directions dealing with flashing ROMs. It seems a lot of the "bugs" people experience are actually explainable because they had no clue what a clean flash vs dirty flashing was. Or that if you had Nova on one ROM, then flashed another ROM and Nova auto installed along with your other apps, that you would have to uninstall Nova to avoid problems. Or that CM kernels are not compatible with TW kernels and if the new ROM you are flashing doesn't install a new kernel, your new ROM may not be compatible with the one left behind form the old. Stuff like that. Sorry for the long post. Again, I have had no problems with anyone on here, dev or not, I just have seen a lot of this happening. And a lot of the attitudes are from dumb little things. You wanted to make ROMs, we all didn't force you to. And if you stop, others will take your place. I have seen that recently too, as soon as the new Nexus hit, a ton of devs left the SGS3 in the dust. But a few new guys showed up and have done a great job with their stuff. Congrats to them, I have found a good stable ROM because of this, and have received great support from this guy. He also regularly updates and interacts with the people taking the time to possibly brick their device to load his ROM. I hope more of those people show up in the future. Those are the people I will keep following and being patient with.
Most people usually help out, some don't. I just have a problem with developers thinking their **** don't stink as you'll learn if you venture out of this forum.
This thread is kinda out of line. Devs deliver us ROMs for free, who's to say what's expected and what's not? The only thing XDA requires devs to do is make their process or code open source, that's it. Devs aren't customer service reps, nor do they have to answer questions and play nice. They are doing us a favor by releasing the latest and the greatest bottom line. If your going to run a ROM, you should read the entire thread because there may be things you have to do, and if it weren't for people asking the same question over and over, threads would be half as long. If you dont have the time or the patience to do the research, you shouldn't be modding your device to begin with.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Elite49 said:
Most people usually help out, some don't. I just have a problem with developers thinking their **** don't stink as you'll learn if you venture out of this forum.
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Yes, that does seem to be an issue. I notice too that the Original Android Devs are a little more snooty than the TW devs. Just my observation.
Do you honestly blame them? If they are going to spend hours and hours of their time coding, learning, and releasing ROMs for you, for free, and on top of it have you spend 10 mins maybe searching for an answer and then bothering them? I honestly don't blame them.
I've spent hours breaking things just to figure out how they work. Flashing things over and over and over again.
I wouldn't want to do that for hours on end, to have someone spend 10 mins, give up, and cry to me for help, then get mad when I didn't hand them the answer.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
Shibby87 said:
This thread is kinda out of line. Devs deliver us ROMs for free, who's to say what's expected and what's not? The only thing XDA requires devs to do is make their process or code open source, that's it. Devs aren't customer service reps, nor do they have to answer questions and play nice. They are doing us a favor by releasing the latest and the greatest bottom line. If your going to run a ROM, you should read the entire thread because there may be things you have to do, and if it weren't for people asking the same question over and over, threads would be half as long. If you dont have the time or the patience to do the research, you shouldn't be modding your device to begin with.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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You're right, they do deliver them for free. But people are trusting them and risking bricking a very expensive device to try their ROM and push their ROMs on other people. They willingly put themselves out there. We all could buy and use phones without customizing them. I'm just saying they act a little too fancy sometimes. Not all of them. Just a few.
Why is this out of line? I posted this in the general section. If I would have posted it anywhere else you would have said it should be in the General forum. See, you made one of my points for me. And last time I checked, I can say whatever I want. If the forum wants to cut it, fine. I'll deal with it on my outlet. No big deal.
Not going to lie, I think Android fanboys are worse than Apple fanboys from what I've seen. I was on a YouTube channel where a woman was talking about how she got an iPhone after selling her Galaxy Nexus and the comments were, "Go kill yourself iwhore", "Traitor sheep", "iSlut", Dumb bimbo etc. The most I see on Mac rumors are "poorphone" or no apps, or cheap looking. Whereas here, if you say iPhone you'll have a ton of people start calling you a sheep. I don't know, I think its incredible how ignorant some people are. Some people just like other things.
Galaxy SIII/Soon to be Note 2 owner once it comes in ftw.
Oh as an edit. That Instagram thing was awful a few months back when Android got instagram. iOS users were saying, "Oh now we get to see what poor people do" Terrible. Simply terrible.
nosympathy said:
Do you honestly blame them? If they are going to spend hours and hours of their time coding, learning, and releasing ROMs for you, for free, and on top of it have you spend 10 mins maybe searching for an answer and then bothering them? I honestly don't blame them.
I've spent hours breaking things just to figure out how they work. Flashing things over and over and over again.
I wouldn't want to do that for hours on end, to have someone spend 10 mins, give up, and cry to me for help, then get mad when I didn't hand them the answer.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda app-developers app
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I doubt people are giving up in 10 minutes and running for the forums. Most people don't want to risk any of this to possibly ruin their expensive phones. The point is, they put themselves out there and make themselves available on the forums. If they don't want to deal with noobs (which every one of you was at one time or another) then throw up a ROM on some site and leave it. I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I figured out a lot on my own too. I have asked very few questions of anyone. But there are a lot of people that don't have the time or knowledge to find all this out on their own. If they are being asked the same question over and over, maybe put those answers in the OP to begin with. I have seen quite a few ROMs posted with very little info in the OPs. They aer banking on everyone knowing what they are doing right off the bat.
And lets really clear some things up. Some of these "Devs" aren't really developing anything. They have the time and/or patience and utilize the kitchen to strip down a stock rom. They throw in some mods that real devs made and slap their name on it. Then ask for donations like they just did something incredible. I've tried just about every modified stock rom on xda and there was really no difference. And God forbid someone has anything negative to say about a rom.
And in regards to the aosp devs, if they dont want to be asked questions or don't want their work criticized they shouldn't be making roms for the public. This forum is filled with smart asses that think everyone should know what they know. Everyone at one point had to ask someone else for help because how else do you learn.
Sent from my Galaxy S III
RCITNet said:
And lets really clear some things up. Some of these "Devs" aren't really developing anything. They have the time and/or patience and utilize the kitchen to strip down a stock rom. They throw in some mods that real devs made and slap their name on it. Then ask for donations like they just did something incredible. I've tried just about every modified stock rom on xda and there was really no difference. And God forbid someone has anything negative to say about a rom.
And in regards to the aosp devs, if they dont want to be asked questions or don't want their work criticized they shouldn't be making roms for the public. This forum is filled with smart asses that think everyone should know what they know. Everyone at one point had to ask someone else for help because how else do you learn.
Sent from my Galaxy S III
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This. This is the cancer invading xda lately. Ungrateful ****s...
my tapatalk signature sucks more than yours.
RCITNet said:
And lets really clear some things up. Some of these "Devs" aren't really developing anything. They have the time and/or patience and utilize the kitchen to strip down a stock rom. They throw in some mods that real devs made and slap their name on it. Then ask for donations like they just did something incredible. I've tried just about every modified stock rom on xda and there was really no difference. And God forbid someone has anything negative to say about a rom.
And in regards to the aosp devs, if they dont want to be asked questions or don't want their work criticized they shouldn't be making roms for the public. This forum is filled with smart asses that think everyone should know what they know. Everyone at one point had to ask someone else for help because how else do you learn.
Sent from my Galaxy S III
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That is why they are guides and info posted in op if bugs and such?
I sure did not post here when I was rooting oh I need some help with adb fastboot Odin what's the problem there are plenty of guides that cover everything
People just tend to give up so easily; that's how lazy the generation has become. Those guides posted helped me out and such. I didn't ask someone else for helped I did this on my own with a guide up on here now I know more than just rudimentary things of the android world I help people out but still gets annoying when you have 5 if the same threads I mean if I could find them why can't they? It's really not that hard.
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This thread is getting heated I see a monitor locking it soon
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As someone buying a G1 and not even knowing what rooting was, I have no sympathy for the winers. I soft bricked, got almost no sleep reading up on recovering it, and I never once posted a question. Now I'm flashing/recovering/restoring any device I want.
The devs spend countless hours working on making roms and apps for us, the least you could do is research (hours if necessary) before asking the same questions that have been answered previously. If you can't handle common sense tasks then a) don't root or flash b) stay with your iPhone
Not trying to rip anyone, but this is a pointless thread Imo.
Sent from the Matrix
dnar56 said:
As someone buying a G1 and not even knowing what rooting was, I have no sympathy for the winers. I soft bricked, got almost no sleep reading up on recovering it, and I never once posted a question. Now I'm flashing/recovering/restoring any device I want.
The devs spend countless hours working on making roms and apps for us, the least you could do is research (hours if necessary) before asking the same questions that have been answered previously. If you can't handle common sense tasks then a) don't root or flash b) stay with your iPhone
Not trying to rip anyone, but this is a pointless thread Imo.
Sent from the Matrix
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Endorsed.
Replace G1 with D1 and that's my story. I googled. I bricked. I bricked a lot. And I read. End of story.
You make it seem like phone tinkering and flashing are a right, a service if you will. It's not. This is a site for phone geeks to share their work. You should be grateful it's not a paid service. Why fix something that's not broken? If you don't like the way it is, you have plenty of options out there. You are complaining about forums in general - it's not limited to xda.
For the record, your post was pretty good until the last paragraph. Didn't agree with that one, however - that's Ok. Your opinion. Just like this is mine...
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
I do have to add though that out of like the 15 touchwiz stock ROMs out there, most of them are the same. And personally I think dev's should accept and take in whatever criticism they get for their ROM. As constructive criticism, so they can make their ROM better.
If they have no desire to make it better, then they should outright say their will only be one release. If they feel someone is being disrespectful, they should be the better person and tell them politely to not be so disrespectful. Just my opinion, and yes I am grateful for all the devs do here.
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NightxFall said:
I do have to add though that out of like the 15 touchwiz stock ROMs out there, most of them are the same. And personally I think dev's should accept and take in whatever criticism they get for their ROM. As constructive criticism, so they can make their ROM better.
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Constructive criticism is fine. What's annoying (even from a non-dev perspective) is the same question getting asked over and over again. Sometimes a dead horse is kicked up for 4-5 pages. Then once it finally dies down, some dude asks the same question. It's silly and unnecessary. If they Google their question followed by ", xda" they would have found the original answer.
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First, I have no problems with XDA. That wasn;t the intention. XDA provides a great service to people who want to customize their phone AND devs that want to put their work out there.
Second, if you feel like this thread is useless, why are you spending the time to respond?
Third, the statement I made wasn't a slam on anyone. I am well aware of people that are too lazy to search things out for themselves. The point I was making, is we need each other. If we refuse to tinker with our phones, the devs are essentially doing this for themselves and a few friends that want to join in. If they aren't creating ROMs, we don't have a way to customize our phones. However, we can get along without each other too. I know if the ROMs weren't there, I would still enjoy the use of my smartphone. If we weren't downloading, devs would still tinker with building ROMs. The whole issue is how we treat each other on ANY forum. If you are getting asked the same questions over and over, maybe a the first post should be updated with those Q&A's. I have seen very few OPs do that. In fact, a majority of the AOSP threads have nothing at all posted regarding issues or potential problems. They just expect everyone to know everything. Everybody learned from somebody else. Whether it was through Google search, this forum or YouTube videos. MOST of the people complaining about the same questions being asked have very little info on their thread.
Again, props to those devs that don't mind helping people out. And props to XDA for providing the forum. The rest should put up pay sites maybe, but their ROM downloads would quickly fall. I have enjoyed my experience thus far tinkering around with something new. But the few in the community that whine about people asking questions should settle down and realize how you act. That goes for the "customer" that can't ask nicely too. I'm not anti-dev. I get what they do is tough and time consuming.
Real_JESRadio said:
First, I have no problems with XDA. That wasn;t the intention. XDA provides a great service to people who want to customize their phone AND devs that want to put their work out there.
Second, if you feel like this thread is useless, why are you spending the time to respond?
Third, the statement I made wasn't a slam on anyone. I am well aware of people that are too lazy to search things out for themselves. The point I was making, is we need each other. If we refuse to tinker with our phones, the devs are essentially doing this for themselves and a few friends that want to join in. If they aren't creating ROMs, we don't have a way to customize our phones. However, we can get along without each other too. I know if the ROMs weren't there, I would still enjoy the use of my smartphone. If we weren't downloading, devs would still tinker with building ROMs. The whole issue is how we treat each other on ANY forum. If you are getting asked the same questions over and over, maybe a the first post should be updated with those Q&A's. I have seen very few OPs do that. In fact, a majority of the AOSP threads have nothing at all posted regarding issues or potential problems. They just expect everyone to know everything. Everybody learned from somebody else. Whether it was through Google search, this forum or YouTube videos. MOST of the people complaining about the same questions being asked have very little info on their thread.
Again, props to those devs that don't mind helping people out. And props to XDA for providing the forum. The rest should put up pay sites maybe, but their ROM downloads would quickly fall. I have enjoyed my experience thus far tinkering around with something new. But the few in the community that whine about people asking questions should settle down and realize how you act. That goes for the "customer" that can't ask nicely too. I'm not anti-dev. I get what they do is tough and time consuming.
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We spend time to respond to actually have you realize no one is gna be here all the time for you some things you have to be done by themselves, I'm 16 I wonder when you'll realize that. No one is gna be up your ass changing your clothes for you either learn the hard way or just not at all.
I have seen multiple threads of people complaining that their data is gone on cm10.1 and not one has bothered to even look at the op's post clearly showing the way to fix it. They just want the easy way out to ask and have someone redirect them there and I have but it gets tiring doing it over and over and over again.
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Despite me being new to XDA I am not new to the process of rooting android phones. I have been rooting other people's phones before I bought the Galaxy S 3. I don't ask questions in forums I research my own answers to my questions. I noticed the same things as the person who started this thread I just don't see the point in bringing it up as it will continue to happen.
Unlike all the badass geniuses in here I have asked questions since I got my first smartphone less than a month ago.
I think it's pretty stupid how people think they're so cool because they figured out how to root, there are so many details in rooting/flashing ROMs and kernels and these high end smart phones are very expensive especially now because of the **** economy, people just don't want to brick they're phones they invested so much in.
People aren't supposed to know all the bugs in a new ROM they flashed and you guys are giving this "issue" too much priority.
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